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- [00:01]
NPR Announcer
Support for this podcast comes from Dignity Memorial. For many families, remembering loved ones means honoring the details that made them unique. Dignity Memorial is dedicated to professionalism and compassion in every detail of a life celebration. Find a provider near you@dignitymemorial.com A quick.
- [00:20]
Ana Maria Sayer
Note before the show.
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NPR Announcer
This podcast contains explicit language.
- [00:27]
Felix Contreras
From NPR Music. This is a T Latino. I'm Felix Contreras.
- [00:30]
Ana Maria Sayer
And I'm Ana Maria Sayer. Let the chisme, the Achisme is all.
- [00:34]
Felix Contreras
About la senorita Rosalia. The album's called Lux. It was released November 7th.
- [00:59]
Ana Maria Sayer
We're finally getting to talk about it. I feel like I've been holding on to, like, state secrets for weeks now.
- [01:04]
Sponsor Announcer
Yeah.
- [01:05]
Felix Contreras
And we actually have an interview to play this week that you did with Rosalia two weeks ago.
- [01:10]
Ana Maria Sayer
I do. Two weeks ago in Mexico City. We talked. It was amazing. She's amazing.
- [01:14]
Felix Contreras
So we're gonna hear from Rosalia, but first, let me hear your impressions. Okay.
- [01:19]
Ana Maria Sayer
That's the hardest question you could have asked me.
- [01:21]
Felix Contreras
30 seconds or less.
- [01:23]
Ana Maria Sayer
She told me that she wanted to fit the entire world into a record. She gets pretty close to successfully doing that. It's beautiful. It's innovative. It incorporates sounds, in a way from around the world that I think a lot of people wouldn't believe to be possible. I think there are a lot of, like, beats and rhythms and sounds from all over the world that are actually essentially compatible. That it takes an artist like Rosalia to be able to show that it's thoughtful. The lyrics are incredible. The music is moving. Classical music is mostly what it's based in. And that's, to me, some of the most evocative, touching, raw, human, intense sound you can have. And I think it was a success, is what I'd say. Rosalia's back. That's what I have to say about that. What about you, Felix? What are your thoughts? I'm actually very curious. I hope that they're different.
- [02:24]
Felix Contreras
Slightly different. So I sat with it for a while. Remember I told you I could only listen once when I first heard it? I only listened to it once.
- [02:31]
Ana Maria Sayer
I think that's insane.
- [02:32]
Felix Contreras
It was so overwhelming.
- [02:34]
Ana Maria Sayer
You were like, it's one of those records that you listen to once and, like, you wish you could hear it again for the first time. And I was like, dear God, I just wanted to get through it so I could listen to it 20 more times and actually absorb it.
- [02:44]
Felix Contreras
Eventually, I did go back, listened critically, listened for a lot of different things because there's so many things to listen to. The languages the rhythms, the. The orchestrations, all of that stuff, the themes. Reading along the lyrics and all that stuff. And I couldn't figure out, like, something was like, what is it about this thing that seems familiar, right? She said, it's divided into four parts. Four different things, four different themes. And then it hit me, because there's so much mysticism. She's chasing the divine. There's all of these really big, giant existential themes. And it hit me. It reminds me of John Coltrane's Love supreme album, because Love supreme is the definitive spiritual statement in jazz. It's also divided into four parts in very much the same way that she has divided her album in. That's what I got out of this record is the way that she did it in a very different way. John Coltrane did with Jazz Quartet Alice Coltrane, his wife, eventually did it with orchestrations, with harps and keyboards and stuff, and with vocals. But it's after the same thing. It's crazy. It's after the exact same thing. To express the deepest, most fundamental part of existence and the bigger picture through music. That was my take.
- [04:01]
Ana Maria Sayer
Interesting. I heard it as kind of like the evolution of the spirituality of the feminine and of herself. It's kind of funny because I saw that it was broken up into movements, and I was like, I'm just going to ignore that. Like, ignore how she broke it up. And I'm just gonna, as I go, kind of like, mark what I feel are the buckets. And it's interesting because the way she introduces the album, she almost presents herself in a godlike way. There are moments throughout where she kind of assumes that Persona. And also, pretty quickly, in the third song, Divina, she kind of makes that Eve parall. And so it's like, to me, that beginning part is her just figuring out and falling into what it means to be a woman in the world. And also how women are used. It's. The relationship is explored there, for sure. And then she reaches this enlightenment to me. And you reach the enlightenment, like, halfway through the record. And it's like, so if we're already enlightened, where do you go from here? And then she gets really tender and soft, and that's where it kind of starts to, like, devolve a little bit. And then at the end, it's the Ascension song, and it's her saying, like, God meets me in the middle. I ascend and God meets me.
- [05:26]
Felix Contreras
That's the Love Supreme. Exactly. Except without words. You have your opinion, I have my opinion. Our take, right? Interpretation.
- [05:34]
Ana Maria Sayer
Sure, sure. Sure, sure, sure.
- [05:35]
Felix Contreras
Let's get into the interview, because I thought you did an amazing interview with her and got her to talk about a lot of different things that related to the record and related to herself. And I think that she said things to you that I haven't read in any other interviews. So kudos to you for bringing that out. But let's get into the interview. The first sound bite we have is where she talks about feminine mysticism and then the different saints from different parts of the world, thus the different languages. 13 languages in total.
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Ana Maria Sayer
13 languages that she really did like.
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Rosalia
Do you know the album? I can say that it has a lot of inspiration in la mystica femenina, in feminine mysticism. And there's a lot of inspiration of different stories of saints, women who are saints, que san concedra dos santas. Throughout history and from all across the world. Each saint, it's from a different place. Then there's a different language used in different songs. Pues encounter canciones, songs that have some Arabic, songs that have some Chinese and it all. I think that definitely there's so much of exploring what. What it is, the feminine energy, being a woman, a kia ora parami. And through trying to understand those stories and those other women, I think that it helps me understand myself better. And maybe, yes, maybe there's some sort of, like, tension or some sort of, like, barrier that sometimes you wish it wasn't, or maybe sometimes you. You feel like giving so much, and others, you feel like you need to actually, you need to receive. And yes, maybe all of. All of it, it's there.
- [07:27]
Ana Maria Sayer
You know, Felix, one of the things that she and I talked about outside of the interview, when we stopped rolling and we were just chatting, is this idea that this feeling of being of everywhere means you're from nowhere. And we talked a lot about. About this sense of like. Of experiencing a lot of different places and people, and not just like, building and building on. Building on the love that you have for, like, the complexity of what we are in the simplicity of what people are. And I think in many ways, her using these saints or these stories as vehicles to explore, like, the diverse elements of what being a woman has meant throughout time, like, currently and throughout time allowed her to explore the complexity of, like, the. The different pieces of the feminine experience that live within her, which I found to be extremely relatable. Like, to be a woman on the earth now is not just to be one particular thing. Like, it's to be what it has meant for a long time. And it's also to be something new, and it's currently constantly being redefined and reshaped. And so I think she does a really good job of exploring that in a lot of the songs. There's one in particular, Felix. I don't know if you remember this one. It's called she Sings in Ukrainian. But I actually wrote down it has a very Arabic sound to it. And the lyrics that I clocked from it were, at dawn I don't want revenge Revenge wants me. And I see this song as, like, being very much her moment of coming out of this realization of what the woman can be and acting that in a song.
- [09:33]
Felix Contreras
I mean, besides the, you know, the use of the language, which, you know, the poetry, the flow, the syntax of the language itself is another instrument in her voice. It's just fascinating to hear the different ways that she approaches a large symphony orchestra.
- [09:49]
Ana Maria Sayer
That's a key thing about this album, is there were so many ways that it could have gone wrong in terms of. I told you this. The second I listened to it, I reached out to Tom Huizenga, our colleague who covers classical, and I was like, okay, give it to me straight, Tom. Did she do it? Is this the real deal? Because it sounds like the real deal to me. And he was like, no, she did it amazingly. Like, she. She used all these classical elements in a way that feels like, natural and authentic and right. And even the way she sings it is really something that feels like it could fit in a concert hall. And I think that there are so many, you know, ways she could have sang just on top of a symphony or with a symphony, but she sings in part. I mean, the symphony harmonizes with her. Her voice is part of the symphony. I think that's exceptional.
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Felix Contreras
Yeah, it's not Rosalia with strings. It's like the voice is part of, like, you said, the symphony.
- [10:39]
Ana Maria Sayer
One of my favorite tracks on the album is called Focus Rani. And there's a part in there where she is truly in harmony with the str to.
- [11:37]
Felix Contreras
One of the other things from your conversation with her that really struck me was the idea of knowing yourself, isn't.
- [11:44]
Rosalia
It that the most you understand yourself, the more you can see the other? Also, the more you can understand the other, and the more you can see yourself, and you understand better yourself. So when you're appreciating more your roots and maybe, I don't know, maybe something. Somebody from Colombia is appreciating more now, their folk music, the same way that I think also in my country, I see so many People enjoying their folk music or their roots. I think that there's so much beauty in that. And by understanding where you come from, who you are, the more you can appreciate and understand more what's around you and have more, your mind can expand, can see more.
- [12:31]
Felix Contreras
So this part was interesting to me because of when we covered Bad Bunny and his record and especially his leaning into Puerto Rican folk music. They're more or less the same age, early 30s they are. And as we talked about with Bad Bunny, it's pretty much they're on target with like, what we all go through. I certainly went through. So many of us go through this, where, okay, who am I? Where do I come from? You know, what are my cultural roots? What are my philosophical roots? Like, it's right on target. And this is. They're both using their incredible art for self discovery. And she talks about that in the bite and how people are going all over. We talk about this all the time. People are digging into their roots, Colombian roots, Afro Colombian, you know, Afro Uruguayan, wherever. Everybody. Everybody's digging into their past to find out who they are in the present.
- [13:27]
Ana Maria Sayer
I think yes and no, Felix, I think you're right. There is a phenomenon that is happening. It's quite possible that you could say that the world, or at least the Spanish language world, is about coming of age in our collective early 30s, whatever, cultural early 30s. Because this is a phenomenon, like you said, that we've been tracking across Latin America, that is, or the Spanish language world, really, that is this real interest into diving into to where people come from. Like we've said, more Mexicans listening to Mexican music, Colombians listening to Colombian music. I mean, it's a phenomenon that's happening all of these places. And specificity is king in that process. I think in the process of what is happening, the unification of a Spanish language world and the process of globalizing some of this music in an authentic way is being specific about where you're from and who you are and representing that authentically in your sound. And so there's something to be said about artists that seem to be at the fore of this being around this age that maybe they're perhaps in that exact right place of perspective of feeling about outside of their home and wanting to be more of a participant in it, and also being at that stage in life of asking, who am I? Where am I from? And so there's a force, there's like an energy. I think I've said this even before on the show, but I always say, like, the best music is music that makes you remember something you had that you lost or long for something you never had that you wish you had. And I think that there's something about that age, the tension of either for a lot of these artists, I used to be closer to home and now I'm not. Or I'm looking for a certainty about who I am that I've never quite had. And so I think it makes sense that they're leading this charge. But it's certainly something that I think is being felt in especially I think as people are losing their homes, it's being felt in a lot of part of the Spanish language world.
- [15:21]
Felix Contreras
Well, this is what she said about it.
- [15:23]
Rosalia
Right now. I'm 33. Yes. I've experienced different things through all these years of traveling and being exposed to other music and being exposed to other ways, other cultures and all of that I think I carry with me with so much love. And I'm like, I want this to be part of this, this album. I really believe. I feel like hopefully my love is plural and it's infinite. Or at least that's what I always try, that everything can fit here because I know I can the same way Yo Toyaki and how can I explain this in a song? And I tried. That's why you can find in La Yugular. That's what it's about, like everything being connected with Todo esta conectado contodo.
- [16:18]
Felix Contreras
Let's hear that track she mentioned. This is La Yugular from Lux by Rosalia.
- [16:42]
Sponsor Announcer
Care.
- [17:04]
Felix Contreras
Okay, there's much more to hear about this song. We're going to take a break and then we're going to hear your thoughts but also more from Rosalia on this song. We'll be right back.
- [17:27]
Sponsor Announcer
This message comes from Schwab. Everyone has moments when they could have done better. Same goes for where you invest. Level up and invest smarter with Schwab. Get market insights, education and human help when you need it.
- [17:41]
NPR Announcer
This message comes from Paramount. Streaming November 16th on Paramount. It's the return of Landman from Taylor Sheridan co creator of Yellowstone. Academy award winner Billy Bob Thornton is back, featuring an all star cast including academy award nominees Demi Moore, Andy Garcia and Sam Elliott. Tensions come to a head as Thornton's Tommy and Morris Cammy Miller struggle to maintain control of Emtech's oil Landman. New season streaming November 16th only on Paramount. Support for NPR. And the following message come from homeserve. Owning a home is full of surprises and when something breaks, it can feel like the whole day unravels. HomeServe is ready to help, bringing peace of mind to four and a half million homeowners nationwide. Plans start at just $4.99 a month. Sign up today at HomeServe.com not available everywhere. Most plans range between $4.99 to $11.99 a month. Your first year terms apply on covered repairs. This message comes from Progressive Insurance. You chose to hit play on this podcast today. Smart Choice make another smart choice with Autoquote Explorer to compare rates for multiple car insurance companies all at once. Try it@progressive.com, progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Not available in all states or situations. Prices vary based on how you buy.
- [19:09]
Felix Contreras
And we're back. Okay. This song in particular, La Yugular, encompasses so many different things, but also there's a substantial use of Arabic.
- [19:19]
Ana Maria Sayer
And that was something really striking to me that I asked her about, because I personally have this obsession with Arabic because of the way that you can express certain emotions that I don't think are available in other languages. It's like there's so many ways to say I love you. There's so many ways to say thank you. It's so poetic and there's a depth to the expression. And I think that was something that she was really trying to get at in using a lot of these different languages. We talked about, you know, this idea too, that in Islam, there's the sense of people, we're all one soul. She discusses what that meant to her. And then also just like how the different parts, like the literal ways that these. These languages are vocalized or expressed, how they help connect us because of the humanness that lives in them.
- [20:16]
Rosalia
That's the inspiration behind in that song. That's like studying from the Islam and being like, okay, so that's. That's those foundations. That's the foundations of it. And then I was like, how can I explain this on a song? How can I put this idea? It's so beautiful on a song. And also the language. I find it so interesting how much the air is important on how you use the air. Because at the end of the day, the breath, that's where all starts. That's why in the beginning of the album, after that piano intro, the beginning is a breath. That's the first human sound on the album. And I find it so interesting, so beautiful that in the use of air in such a special way, which it taught me so much. I was struggling with recording in Arabic because I'm not used to using my throat like this. The make this Space. And I don't even think that I got it right, but I tried. That was my love letter to Arabic.
- [21:21]
Ana Maria Sayer
It does feel. It's almost like her goal here was to pull together all of the elements of every culture and language and sound that felt like the most connective and put them into one album.
- [21:31]
Felix Contreras
Also sort of reminds you of the time that Residente made a record based on the results of his DNA test, where he went to different parts of the world where he has DNA roots, and then he recorded with musicians from those areas. And it wasn't, you know, he's Puerto Rican, so it wasn't. He didn't go to Spain, he didn't go to Africa, he didn't go to the obvious places. He went to, like, Siberia and all these different places. And it sort of reminds me of the same thing. And what she's talking about, it's like, when you get down to it, you know, who knows what's in her DNA, but it's like, you know, I have Ashkenazi Jew and some of my DNA and some Arabic as well, you know, so just the nature of the history of the world and where people migrated, moved around. I think that that's what she's trying to reflect here in this record.
- [22:14]
Ana Maria Sayer
Okay, Felix, do you have a favorite song? I'm asking this question and I'm not answering it, by the way.
- [22:20]
Felix Contreras
You have to answer it. I do, for a lot of different reasons. But let's hear a little bit of it. This is Mio Cristo Piangi Diamante. So I totally messed it. To me, this is one of the tracks that encapsulates, I think, everything she was trying to do. The artistry of her voice just captures where she is in this moment in her career, in her life and her development as a vocalist and as an artist.
- [24:21]
Ana Maria Sayer
Well, she told me she trained an entire year just to sing this song, and I think that's representative of all of the ways that she's trying to really, like, properly embody some of these things. When I talked to Tom, he was like, she does these technical things that are literally like what you would hear in a proper opera. Like that part where she's singing kind of softly. He says it's called Mezz voce. It's like half voice and you're singing. It's like where the singer is using their diaphragm and they're singing really softly, but you can hear it all the way in the back, in the rafters.
- [24:55]
Felix Contreras
In the back of the opera hop.
- [24:56]
Ana Maria Sayer
But it's like somehow there's this softness to it. And then the talking singing part, it's like what you do in an aria when you're kind of trying to tell a connective part of the story. They call it a recitative. And he's like, she does that too. It's like there's all these really, like, proper technical things that she's able to do well. And it was funny, Felix, because we talked about this. Like, last time I had talked to her years before, she had told me that it was her grandma's dream that she would sing Pavarotti. And there she is, fully singing like she's freaking Pavarotti. It's incredible.
- [25:28]
Felix Contreras
Okay. And that was one of the best parts of the interview because she had a voicemail from her grandmother in Catalan when she had heard. When she heard the record. So let's hear that part of the interview where her grandmother's talking about a specific song called Vergain, but also about her vocal performance on the entire record. Check this out.
- [25:47]
Rosalia
If you want, maybe I can play for you the audio because she's so funny. Can I have my phone? Can I have my phone? I have it here.
- [25:55]
Ana Maria Sayer
Please.
- [25:55]
Rosalia
I need to hear this. Let me find my grandma's message. Because I woke up today at four in the morning because I had so much jellock.
- [26:04]
Ana Maria Sayer
Okay.
- [26:04]
Rosalia
I woke up with something really nice, which was this message. Oh, she's so funny. She's basically, she's saying like, I heard your new song and I loved it. Hahaha. You changed the style. Hahaha. She's laughing a lot that I'm doing this now because I think she didn't see it coming. Yes. When I was a kid, I remember she would have a lot of records, Pavarotti records in her place, and she would always be a little bit like, kind of like singing while she was like washing dishes or whatever. She would always be like, you know, singing a little bit or whistling. And so it's. It's funny to me because it stuck with me.
- [26:46]
Ana Maria Sayer
Yeah.
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Rosalia
That she would say that, you know, okay, you're studying flamenco. That's amazing. That's very difficult.
- [26:51]
Ana Maria Sayer
But when you're ready.
- [26:55]
Rosalia
The real deal, the real deal for her was the classical music and classical trained voices. And so it stuck with me and I was like, okay, one day I'm gonna make a song that my grandma's gonna be like, okay, Aurasi. When the do Yana.
- [27:44]
Felix Contreras
Okay. Putting you on the spot, man. One song.
- [27:49]
Ana Maria Sayer
I really can't. Oh my God. Come on, okay, this one is not my favorite, but it makes me freaking cry, laughing every time. Just because the lyrics to me are hysterical. La Perla, which is. She does in kind of a Mexican style, and she does with yaritza de yaritza issu essencia.
- [28:08]
Rosalia
Hola.
- [28:37]
Ana Maria Sayer
Scout. Every line on this song is just, like, a complete takedown. It's like the chorus is the local disappointment. National heartbreaker an emotional terrorist the greatest disaster in the world He's a pearl no one trusts him He's a pearl One to be careful with. Like, every single line is this, like, crazy zinger about I don't know who. It's amazing. It's like she reaches that moment in the record where she's just like, let me just take down men. They're worth nothing, Obviously.
- [29:40]
Felix Contreras
Ana, we could go for hours and hours talking about this record. We sort of did on text, but, you know, we gotta bring this to a close. I'm wondering if you have any final thoughts.
- [29:51]
Ana Maria Sayer
I spent a lot of time with this record. The first time I listened to it, I think I listened three times through. I was up till, like, I don't know what time, just listening, listening, listening. Reading all the lyrics took a long time to, like, really absorb those. It feels very personal to me. Like, it's this masterpiece of.
- [30:09]
Felix Contreras
Personal to you.
- [30:10]
Ana Maria Sayer
Personal to me. And personal to me, like, I think it's this masterpiece of an art, and it feels like her. And it also, for me, yes, feels like something that I really understand. It feels like a complex summation of what it means to be a woman right now. It made me feel things about that and understand things about that that I didn't before.
- [30:34]
Felix Contreras
I'm very curious to see how the music world and fans and industry approach and accept this record, because for all intents and purposes, Rosalia is a pop star. And in addition to listening to this record, I was listening to a lot of her earlier. I was listening to their first two records. And she's redefined it then. This is what great artists do, right? She's redefined what it means to be a pop musician and. And maybe even beyond that, like, shed that skin. Like, now. Now, this is just this. To me, this is, like, just strictly art. And there's none of the trappings that go along with it to try to get, you know, what's the single? Right? It's always been for time and more, okay, listen to a record. What's the single? The single's the whole album and its approach to art and music and life that just really, it touched me in really profound ways. But one of the things that she said, and I want to wind this up because it goes back to how I started my analysis today, by her talking about other artists, but she's actually also talking about herself.
- [31:39]
Rosalia
My favorite artists, they are vessels. They are something that can shift and that they can embody different things because, yeah, I think that's what it is all about. And at the same time, I want to stay flexible enough to explain different stories depending on the moment. And yeah, I think that's how I understand being a musician and being an artist.
- [32:08]
Ana Maria Sayer
Does it ever end?
- [32:09]
Rosalia
No, I don't think so, and I hope it never does.
- [32:12]
Felix Contreras
There really is not much more to say beyond that. So I think we should just maybe hear a little bit more music before we close this out.
- [32:19]
Ana Maria Sayer
We gotta close it on the last song. Magnolias.
- [33:12]
Felix Contreras
You have been listening to Alt Latino from NPR Music. Our audio editor is Noah Caldwell.
- [33:17]
Ana Maria Sayer
The executive producer of NPR Music is Soraya Muhammad.
- [33:20]
Felix Contreras
The executive director of NPR Music is Sonali Mehta. You can read extended highlights of Ana's interview with Rosalia@NPRMusic.org We've also put a link to it in the show description. I'm Felix Contreras.
- [33:31]
Ana Maria Sayer
And I'm Ana Maria Sayer.
- [33:33]
Felix Contreras
Thank you for listening.
- [34:06]
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- [34:39]
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- [35:13]
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