Beck’s ‘Odelay’ at 30, Mitski covers One Direction, more

Summary

NPR Music - All Songs Considered

Episode: Beck’s ‘Odelay’ at 30, Mitski Covers One Direction, and More

Date: June 23, 2026
Hosts: Robin Hilton, Lars Gottridge

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Overview

In this episode of All Songs Considered, Robin Hilton and Lars Gottridge dive into the 30th anniversary of Beck’s iconic ‘Odelay,’ highlight standout new tracks, discuss memorable covers, and explore boundary-pushing new releases. The episode is a blend of nostalgia, musical discovery, and deep appreciation for underground and genre-defying artists. The conversation is casual, witty, and packed with deep musical insight, making it accessible for both music nerds and casual listeners.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Beck’s ‘Odelay’ Turns 30

• [01:09] Robin and Lars reminisce about the transformative sound of Beck’s ‘Odelay,’ which was released June 18, 1996.
  • Robin: Shares a vivid personal memory of hearing “Where It’s At” for the first time and being struck by its originality, noting the unique influence of The Dust Brothers’ production.
  • Lars: Reflects on discovering the album a bit later and how the record is both rooted in and timelessly separate from the ‘90s sound.
  • Notable Quote:

    “I binged all weekend on this album and other Beck releases… The kids were begging me to turn it off. I was like, no, it’s Father’s Day. You don’t like it, get out and walk.”
    — Robin Hilton ([03:48])

  • Discussion of how Odelay simultaneously sounds very much of its era yet remains out of time.

2. Perennial — Modern Mod Punk Energy

• [04:11] Lars introduces Perennial, a Connecticut band channeling 2000s dance punk and ‘60s mod energy, with their new track “What’s New On The Beat Scene.”
  • The song stands out for its short, high-energy format with retro influences.
  • Notable Moment: The hosts debate the perfect song length, marveling at how under-two-minute tracks leave listeners wanting more.
  • Memorable Exchange:

    “As I was listening to this, and then it suddenly was over, I thought, what’s the perfect length for a song?”
    — Robin Hilton ([07:40])

3. Mitski Covers One Direction

• [09:20] Robin spotlights Mitski’s cover of One Direction’s “Fireproof,” newly released on the U.S. 10th anniversary edition of ‘Puberty 2.’
  • Both Robin and Lars admit they didn’t recognize the original and believed the song fit Mitski’s style perfectly.
  • Discussion on the joy of discovering new layers in an artist’s influences—here, Mitski’s subtle pop fandom.
  • Notable Quote:

    “If I didn’t tell you that was a One Direction song… wouldn’t you think that was a Mitski song?”
    — Robin Hilton ([12:24])

  • Tangent: Realization of how covers can sometimes outshine originals; leads to the idea for a future show focusing on “covers better than the original.”

4. Sarah Davachi’s Expansive Minimalism

• [16:21] Lars highlights LA minimalist composer Sarah Davachi and her two-hour album, ‘The Will of Tongues.’
  • Focus on the choral work “Songs Of The Smiles Fig. 3, Follies,” performed by Chamber Choir Ireland.
  • The hosts describe the music as transporting, inducing meditation and letting go.
  • Notable Quotation:

    “It takes like the first 15 minutes or whatever just to get you to let go of whatever you’ve been holding on to… and finally just let the music take you away.”
    — Robin Hilton ([23:17])

  • Exploration of tension and release in ambient music.

5. Shearwater’s Return with “Daydream Unbeliever”

• [25:53] Robin brings Shearwater’s new single, “Daydream Unbeliever,” from the upcoming album ‘The New World,’ into focus.
  • Discussion about underappreciated bands and the benefits artists sometimes find in staying out of the mainstream.
  • Context from Jonathan Myberg about the song’s theme: letting go of anthropocentric illusions and the false conflation of violence with courage.
  • Notable Quote:

    “It’s about how liberating it feels when you realize—even for a moment—that you’ve broken free of them, of those ideas.”
    — Jonathan Myberg (via Robin, [31:21])

  • Musical analysis: Unusual time signatures used to mirror the song’s lyrical meaning, creating a 'topsy-turvy’ feeling.
  • Lars compares Shearwater’s style to Jeremy Enigk’s “Return of the Frog Queen” for its string-laden, slightly off-kilter quality.

6. The Drama Around Sleep’s New Lineup

• [36:24] Lars introduces Sleep’s new track, “Have Spacesuit Will Travel,” the first without guitarist Matt Pike.
  • Metal fans’ uproar about Pike’s absence and the new direction with Bubba Dupree on guitar.
  • Candid discussion about controversies, particularly Matt Pike’s embrace of conspiracy theories (partially documented in NPR’s own reporting).
  • Memorable Phrase:

    “The metal world is losing its damn mind… Some people are calling this Nap, which is a good joke. I’ll allow it.”
    — Lars Gottridge ([37:32])

  • Robin reflects on how one’s first experience with a band colors the perception of changes in the lineup.
  • Both agree the new Sleep song is a natural progression, with Lars particularly liking the new use of Moog synth.

7. Lorraine’s Groundbreaking “Soulless Cycle”

• [45:35] Robin wraps with Lorraine’s (Taja Cheek) powerful and indefinable new track, “Soulless Cycle,” from her upcoming album ‘Fata Morgana’ (out August 14th).
  • The song combines broken beats, electronics, jazz, ambient, and R&B—defying genre.
  • Brief explanation of the Fata Morgana mirage phenomenon and its resonance with the music's otherworldliness.
  • Both hosts express excitement and admiration for Lorraine’s inventive boundary-pushing sound.
  • Notable Quote:

    “It is certainly one of the boldest songs I've ever heard from her. It just grabs you by the throat.”
    — Robin Hilton ([46:53])

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Noteworthy Quotes

• Robin Hilton: “This album [Odelay], it was unlike anything that was out at the time… so chopped up. Had all these amazing killer grooves on it. It rocked, it screamed, and it was goofy as all get out.” ([01:53])
• Lars Gottridge: “This both sounds of its time and out of time completely. Because the sound of this album is very 90s… but it sounded out of time at the same time.” ([03:13])
• Lars Gottridge: “What I love about Perennial is that their sets are always like 20 minutes long, because their songs are so short.” ([07:10])
• Robin Hilton: “I always love it when an artist can take a song by a band that I otherwise assume… I just… I don’t like, or I know I don’t like, and they get me to like it.” ([13:04])
• Lars Gottridge: “There’s such a beautiful exercise in tension and release… sometimes they can coexist.” ([22:37])
• Jonathan Myberg (via Robin): “It’s about how important it is to let go of those false ideas, to let go of the illusion that we’re the most important creatures on Earth.” ([31:21])
• Robin Hilton: “You know, with the kind of music we listen to, we don’t really need weed, man.” ([42:07])
• Robin Hilton: “Her music is just… there’s not a word for it. It’s broken beats and sung and spoken word… a little bit of jazz, a little bit of ambient, a little bit of R&B.” ([46:38])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:09] - Beck’s ‘Odelay’ and the 30th anniversary discussion
• [04:11] - Perennial and the modern mod punk revival
• [09:20] - Mitski covers One Direction’s “Fireproof”
• [16:21] - Sarah Davachi’s minimalist and choral works
• [25:53] - Shearwater’s new music and reflection on underrated bands
• [36:24] - Sleep’s lineup change and fan reactions
• [45:35] - Lorraine’s “Soulless Cycle” and genre-defying sound

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Concluding Thoughts

This All Songs Considered episode celebrates both the legacy of classic alternative music and the ongoing innovation found in new releases. The hosts’ playful banter, deep dives into musical context, and affection for genre-pushing artistry make it a treasure trove for anyone seeking to understand not just what’s new in music, but why it matters.

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Transcript

[Announcer]

This message comes from Angie. If you're tackling a home project, check out angie.com from roofing to remodels and everything in between, Angie connects you with skilled pros who do such a good job, you might trust them to do other things like pull out your tooth or be your kid's godfather. Don't actually ask them to do those things, just let them get the job done. Well, Angie, the one you trust to find the ones you trust, find a pro for your [e-mail] that's a n

[Robin Hilton]

g I.com this episode of All Songs Considered comes to you from the NPR Music Podcast. I'm Robin Hilton. We've got new episodes of this show, new episodes of All Songs Considered in the NPR Music feed every Tuesday. You get Alt Latino every Wednesday, and New Music Friday at the end of every week. NPR Music. Also, where you will find tiny desk editor Lars Goddridge.

[Lars Gottridge]

Oh, wow.

[Guest or Listener]

Yeah.

[Lars Gottridge]

What do you think of this?

[Robin Hilton]

You liking what you're hearing here?

[Lars Gottridge]

I mean, I wasn't expecting that of introduction.

[Robin Hilton]

Well, listen, we're gonna talk about our picks for the best new tracks of the week on this episode, but I had to start the show off with this.

[Lars Gottridge]

Okay. Why?

[Robin Hilton]

So this past week was the 30th anniversary of Odalay.

[Lars Gottridge]

Okay. Yeah. I feel like there are a lot of crucial albums in my teenage years that are turning 30 this year, and I'm just like, oh, man.

[Announcer]

Yeah.

[Robin Hilton]

So this is the first single where it's at from Odalite, the Beck album came out on June 18, 1996. What were you doing, Lars?

[Lars Gottridge]

I would have been in middle school. Yeah. Probably would have been in sixth grade, maybe seventh grade, something like that.

[Robin Hilton]

Were you remotely aware of this?

[Lars Gottridge]

Not until maybe like a year or two later, because that's the way radio kind of worked those days where songs could be on the radio for like two or three years and it wasn't a big deal.

[Robin Hilton]

Yeah. Were you listening to 99x1000%? Yeah. So that's where I heard this song. So it came out on my birthday, May 28, 1996. I remember exactly where I was, what I was doing. I was in my car. I was driving down what was the street, Westlake Drive in Athens, Georgia, a road you probably know. I was listening to 99X. This song came on, and I just thought, what is this? Oh, my God. For those who don't know Odalay, this album, it was unlike anything that was out at the time that anybody had heard, in no small part because of the Production of the Dust Brothers. Yeah, it was so chopped up. Had all these amazing killer grooves on it. It rocked, it screamed, and it was goofy as all get out. Wildly unpredictable. You never knew what was gonna happen at any moment in any song.

[Lars Gottridge]

I was on a road trip maybe sometime last year, and I like to buy dollar CDs from the thrift store. And Odalite was there one time.

[Robin Hilton]

Oh, wow. Wait a minute. For a dollar?

[Lars Gottridge]

Yeah, for a dollar. I'd buy that for a dollar.

[Robin Hilton]

Come on, man, that's blasphemy.

[Lars Gottridge]

But I was listening to it and I was like, this. Both sounds of its time and out of time completely. Because, like, this is the sound of this album is very 90s, because I think Dust Brothers kind of created that sound for sure. But it sounded out of time at the same time.

[Robin Hilton]

No, I know what you mean.

[Lars Gottridge]

Yeah, yeah.

[Robin Hilton]

No, because it's definitely steeped in these sort of classic backbeats and bass lines. But, yeah, no, it holds up. I binged all weekend on this album and other Beck releases. I was blasting this in the car. The kids were begging me to turn it off. I was like, no, it's Father's Day. You don't like it, get out and walk.

[Lars Gottridge]

Yeah, yeah.

[Robin Hilton]

This is my deal here. I get to listen to whatever I want.

[Lars Gottridge]

Yeah. On my birthday and on Father's Day, I get to listen to my music.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

That's it.

[Robin Hilton]

Well, anyway, I couldn't let the moment pass without acknowledging 30 year anniversary for Beck's Odel. Not my first pick for the show. I don't know if you got something you want to.

[Lars Gottridge]

I think I got something that sort of works with this, because if we're talking about Beck, who was sort of making music that was nostalgic but current at the same time, here's a band called Perennial. They've been making music for a few years, and they do a version of mod punk that is an homage to the early 2000s dance punk scene. That itself was an homage to the 60s mod scene.

[Robin Hilton]

You're threading so many needles there.

[Lars Gottridge]

I am, a lot.

[Robin Hilton]

I'm not sure I've tracked all that, but keep going.

[Lars Gottridge]

60s mod. Think of, like, Great Britain in the 60s. Lots of loud patterns went out of fashion for quite a while. And in the early 2000s, a whole bunch of punk bands were like, hey, you know, it was cool that, that. And so here's a band who's like, several steps removed, okay. But I still think that they do their own thing with it. And they have a new album called Modernism that's coming out. And this song, what's new on the beat scene is so.

[Guest or Listener]

The red red rubbing goes Ma. Ma. The red rain rubbing goes pop. The red, red bummy goes My bucket I can't explain baby feeling okay the peppermint twist It's a tangent. The kids on the beat scene Know just what they want the kick on the tivering Five, four, three, two, one. The red brain Robbie goes five. To you the red brain Robbie goes five. The red, red Ronnie goes.

[Lars Gottridge]

Isn't that fun?

[Robin Hilton]

That is exactly what I was looking for.

[Lars Gottridge]

Oh, good.

[Robin Hilton]

That is so good. And is this a new song or.

[Lars Gottridge]

I mean, this is a brand new

[Robin Hilton]

song because even the recording sounds kind of old.

[Lars Gottridge]

Yeah, they thread that line between, like I said, a vintage sound, but with, like, some modern twists inside. So, like, they got the fuzzy guitar, the fuzzy Farfisa or whatever kind of organ that happens to be, but the guy just shouts at one specific the entire time, but it's like he's hyping you up. And I've seen this band a couple of times, and it is so much fun. Their sets are always, like 20 minutes long because their songs are so short.

[Robin Hilton]

I mean, a minute 45. As I was listening to this, and then it suddenly it was over, I thought, what's the perfect length for a song? I mean, you get it in under two minutes, you're always going to be wanting more. Especially with a jam like that. It even changes. I felt like it was kind of shifting with or morphing ever so slightly through different eras just from the beginning. And to, like, it starts off, I'm like, oh, this is 1967 or 66 or something. And then it's like the Beastie Boys.

[Lars Gottridge]

Yeah, sure, absolutely. I mean, when I first heard them, the thing that I clocked with them was the Blood Brothers. Did you ever listen to the Blood Brothers?

[Robin Hilton]

I know that name, but no, never.

[Lars Gottridge]

Early 2000s, screamy punk band that kind of did a similar thing, but was just way more intense and chaotic. Perennial kind of makes it more fun. They make it more. It doesn't feel like you're about to get bashed in the face. Yeah.

[Robin Hilton]

Well, tell me more about the band, though.

[Lars Gottridge]

Just, they're from Connecticut and they have toured with bands. Like, they've toured with our friends in Bad Moves.

[Robin Hilton]

Oh, okay.

[Lars Gottridge]

And this kind of like, brightly lit but, like, really splashy kind of punk music feels. Feels very summery to me in a way that I kind of need that kick in the pants right now. So Perennial is Working hard for me.

[Robin Hilton]

Yeah. No, I like that it kind of rages, but it's like fun rage. It feels good. So this album, Modernism, it's from. Is that out now or.

[Lars Gottridge]

Modernism is out September 18th.

[Robin Hilton]

September 18th.

[Lars Gottridge]

Yeah. It's not out for a little while. The whole album, I think it's like 10 songs in 17 minutes.

[Robin Hilton]

Well, I swear, I do have some totally new stuff that I want to play. I mean, I started with the beck, which is 30 years old, but I want to play something from Mitsky that's actually been floating around out in the ether for a number of years now. But it just got a proper release in the States. It's a cover song. Mitzky's cover of a song by the band. Wait for it. One Direction.

[Lars Gottridge]

Okay.

[Robin Hilton]

Yes. The boy band One Direction. The song is called Fireproof. She just included it on this 10th anniversary edition of the album. I believe it's pronounced puberty. Puberty two?

[Lars Gottridge]

Yeah.

[Announcer]

Puberty.

[Lars Gottridge]

Yes, that's right. That's a joke that you've never let go.

[Robin Hilton]

I'm pretty sure it's puberty. It's not my job to figure these things out for you, Lars. Do your homework. Pretty sure It's Puberty. Puberty 2 came out. That album came out in 2016. Notable for, among many other things, the song youg Best American Girl. One of the greatest songs of this century, I think. Anyway, Fireproof, her cover of the song Fireproof. It's a song she's played live a handful of times. It was on the Japanese release of Puberty 2, but now out on the deluxe version of Puberty 2. Check it out.

[Guest or Listener]

I think I'm gonna lose my mind Something deep inside me I can't give up I think I'm gonna lose my mind I roll and I roll Till I change my luck I roll and I roll Till I change my luck I'm feeling something deep inside Harder than a just dream Burning up I got a feeling deep inside it's taken, it's taken All I got it's taken, it's taken All I got. Cause nobody knows you, baby, the way I do Nobody loves you, baby, the way to. It's been so long it's been so long maybe you're just. If I could. Nobody sees me. I think I'm going to win this time Riding on a wind and I won't give up I think I'm going to win this time oh, and on till I change my life oh, and on till I change my life yeah, I'm rolling on till I change my love.

[Robin Hilton]

Now, be honest. If I didn't tell you that was a One Direction song, you don't know it, Wouldn't you think that was a Mitsky song?

[Lars Gottridge]

I just think. Yes. I just think it was. Just. Especially from this era, I would have been like, yeah, this is a Mitzi song.

[Robin Hilton]

Yeah, I didn't know it. Do you know Fireproof? Did you know that song?

[Lars Gottridge]

You're asking somebody who. All right, that's fine. Fair enough.

[Robin Hilton]

I didn't know the original at all. Probably should have. But when I first heard this, I thought, classic Mitsky. Oh, this is such a great Mitsky song. Why didn't she include this in the original when she put the album? Then I realized it was a cover song. The original version of this. So different. It's almost like yacht rock or something. It's fun.

[Lars Gottridge]

Okay, now I want to listen to it.

[Robin Hilton]

Now you're in. I mean, a little poppy, a little breezy. You know, it came out in 2014, so just a couple of years before the mitsky release of puberty 2. But, man, I always love it when an artist can take a song by a band that I otherwise assume. I just. I don't like or I know I don't like, and they get me to like it. Like, they find a way to repackage it or retool it in a way that it suddenly clicks with me.

[Lars Gottridge]

I mean, it makes me curious about Mitsky's pop influences. I happen to know that she's a Mariah Carey fan.

[Robin Hilton]

Ye. That made me think there's probably some stuff in her music that I've been completely missing. Like, there are some ties to that whole pop world. Well, I think this would make a good show. Cover songs that are better than the original.

[Lars Gottridge]

Oh, I've got five I can write off.

[Robin Hilton]

Right off the top of your head. Me too. We should do that. We should do that. We should do cover songs that were better than the originals. I can also think of many right off the top of my head. Anyway, Mitske having a great year. She released Nothing's about to Happen to Me. That was back in February. At the end of February, we featured the song where's my phone? From it. And now, the 10th anniversary of puberty 2.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

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[Lars Gottridge]

Hello. I'm Malcolm Gladwell, host of Smart Talks with IBM. I sat down with Alon Cohen, who leads research and development at UFC to discuss the complexity of using technology to analyze fight data. With kick to the head, it makes contact with the outset of my arm, which I brought up. In our world, that's a blocked strike. Yeah, but teaching a computer what exactly that means and when and how. Like when my arm is up, that's a block. When my arm is down and hits my shoulder, that's not. It's those nuances that proved incredibly difficult for machines to be able to handle for a very, very long time. That is, until IBM entered the Octagon.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

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[Lars Gottridge]

there's this great minimalist composer from Los Angeles. Her name is Sarah Devachi. Our colleague Tom Tom Huizenga and I love to talk about her work and she's mostly known for playing the pipe organ and writing for pipe organ and also kind of like electronics and tapes and things like that. But she's been delving more into brass and coral works lately, so she just announced a two hour album called the Will of Tongues.

[Robin Hilton]

It's all one cut, right?

[Lars Gottridge]

No, it's several different pieces that have been commissioned over the years. The first song that she decided decided to release from the album was a choral work and not one of the pipe organ pieces. And as soon as I hit play I was like, this is one of the most beautiful things that I've heard so far this year. It's called Songs of the smiles fig. Part 3 follies and it is sung by the Chamber Choir Ireland.

[Robin Hilton]

Songs of the smiles Fig. 3 follies.

[Guest or Listener]

Follies, yes, that's. Ram. Ram. Ram. Ram. Sam.

[Lars Gottridge]

Well, so I had to fly back home to Atlanta last week for a funeral. And when I was on the plane, I listened to this music, you know, 35,000ft, and I felt like that's where you're supposed to listen to this music. There's such incredible.

[Robin Hilton]

In the heavens, up in the clouds.

[Lars Gottridge]

It's such a beautiful exercise in tension and release and how they don't always have to go one after the other. Sometimes they can coexist.

[Robin Hilton]

Yeah. That's an interesting way to put it. I thought you said tension in release, not tension and release. Because I was thinking my attention, it kept wanting to drift, you know, as I was listening, I just sat here with my eyes closed listening to it, kind of meditating. And every time I started to drift away, it kind of pulled me back. It kind of reminded me of a friend of mine who once took a six week vacation. And I remember saying to him at the time, six weeks? Who takes a six week vacation?

[Lars Gottridge]

Yeah, what are you going to do?

[Robin Hilton]

I mean, like. And he said, he's like, oh, man, it takes the first three weeks or so just to forget your life that you had before you took vacation, and then you get your three weeks of actual vacation. And I thought it's appropriate that this is a two hour piece because it takes like the first 15 minutes or whatever just to get you to let go of whatever you've been holding on to. All that tension, whatever's been happening throughout the day, whatever's on your mind to let go of all of that and finally just let the music take you away. Just give, give in.

[Lars Gottridge]

This piece comes towards the end of the record. Like it's not the very end, but pretty close. And it's a series of three choral pieces that are interspersed with other works.

[Robin Hilton]

So Songs of the smiles, fig number 3, follies from Sarah Devauchi. And that's from the album the Will of Tongues. Very ancient. Gorgeous.

[Lars Gottridge]

Yeah.

[Robin Hilton]

So for upcoming show ideas, we've got the one we just mentioned, cover songs that were better than the originals. That's one. Here's another one. Another show idea.

[Lars Gottridge]

Okay.

[Robin Hilton]

Criminally underrated bands, or bands, maybe they're much beloved bands, but bands that should be bigger than they are. That's pretty much every band that you listen to.

[Lars Gottridge]

Thanks, Robin. I think sometimes that's the case, but in other times, I'm trying to remember. There's this great piece that I've read or listened to about the plight of the seniorist pop star and how some seniorist pop stars like where they are because it affords them their creative life,

[Robin Hilton]

that they enjoy more control. Go Patreon or something like that.

[Lars Gottridge]

But also, there isn't extreme level of. Of scrutiny on their personal lives. And so while I hear you, I think about that argument that I listened to recently. I was like, oh, that actually makes a lot of sense. So there are some bands where I'm like, they're probably happy where they are. Maybe they wish they made a little bit more money, but maybe they don't want to be the big, huge thing that everybody thinks they should be.

[Robin Hilton]

Well, that's a good point and one that we can discuss when we do our show on. Bands should be much bigger than they are. I think somewhere in my top 10 would be the bands Shearwater.

[Lars Gottridge]

Okay.

[Robin Hilton]

Yeah, you were probably.

[Lars Gottridge]

I remember them. Yeah. They haven't been around for a minute. Well, or maybe they have and I didn't know.

[Robin Hilton]

Well, you know, I have sort of lost the thread of that band off and on over the years, too. They were consistently releasing albums for a while there. In the beginning, we're talking like 15 years or so ago and now, definitely more time between albums. But they've got a new one coming up called the New World. I mean, plenty of people love this band, but they're also a band that I, when I listen to, I think, man, they should be filling stadiums. Most of the work, I think, is from singer Jonathan Myberg, who has one of the most gorgeous voices.

[Lars Gottridge]

Oh, yeah. I remember when I did listen to it, I remember thinking, he has incredibly beautiful voice.

[Announcer]

Sonorous.

[Robin Hilton]

It's Sonorous and Shearwater. As I said, they've got a new album coming out later this year, New World. This song I want to play from, it is stunning. It's called Daydream Unbeliever.

[Guest or Listener]

Nothing is ordinary. Elephant ear Coyote sings in an older language. Hold the lens up to the light or wander around in hell. Never decide what strengthest. I'm a daydream unbeliever. Daydream of one believer. Coming to take you over. Though the wine is watered down thrums like a prom. The heartbeat of the real life he serves. Only the strong survive. You don't get to decide what strength is not to do. I'm a day dream unbeliever Day dream unbeliever Day dream of unbeliever daydream. Believe.

[Lars Gottridge]

Oh, who's the little doggie at the end?

[Robin Hilton]

Well, so Jonathan Myberg. He's an ornithologist. I mean, obviously the name of the band Shearwater it's a bird. He loves nature. So any way he can work in nature animals, he's going to find a way to do that. I mean, this song. Well, I reached out to him and said, tell me a little bit about kind of how you came to write the song and what, what it means for you. And he said it's the first one he wrote for the album. And he was thinking about what he calls the weird fantasies that we're taught to believe in. And I'm quoting him here, like the idea that humans are the most beautiful and important animals ever to live on Earth. Also the perverse. And again, I'm still quoting him. The perverse conflation of violence and courage, that violence is courage. It's about how important it is to let go of those false ideas, to let go of the illusion that we're the most important creatures on Earth. And again, I'm quoting him here. It's about how liberating it feels when you realize even for a moment, that you've broken free of them, of those ideas. But if you know the music of Shearwater, this is a very Shearwatery song. I mean, it rises and falls, heaves in size. You know, there's a lot of push and pull and it can be really epic and cinematic. I love those strings at the end, but also, you know, very intimate and quiet.

[Lars Gottridge]

Well, you know what? I hadn't listened to Shearwater in probably a very long time.

[Robin Hilton]

Well, so I wasn't actually sure about how long it'd been between albums. It's been four years since the last one. But this is only the second album in the last decade, so.

[Lars Gottridge]

Yeah, so, I mean, it might have been maybe over a decade ago that I listened to them. And what struck me about this, do you know? So Jeremy Enosh from Sunny Day Real Estate, his first solo album is called Return of the Frog Queen. And this song that you just played gives me that quality because the string swept circus quality to it, where it feels like everything's a little topsy turvy.

[Robin Hilton]

I hear that in this. Yeah.

[Lars Gottridge]

And the arrangements are just a little bit off.

[Robin Hilton]

Well, so the time signature keeps shifting. I think it's between. The song's either in 5, 4, or he goes from 3, 4 to 2, 4 or something like that. But you can't find a consistent beat. And Jonathan Myberg said that was intentional to sort of reflect how difficult it is to let go of these illusions that we live with.

[Lars Gottridge]

Ah, yeah. Wow. What a smart idiot.

[Robin Hilton]

Isn't that genius? You know, I love stuff like that. And I love when an artist is willing to share something like that, because I wouldn't have clocked that. I mean, I could feel something was off, but that he was willing to sort of pull the curtain back a little bit and reveal what he was thinking. I love that. And it's a great idea, too, because it's the sort of thing that you don't exactly realize is happening, but something is throwing you off balance.

[Lars Gottridge]

Yeah. You can't figure out what it is. Yeah, yeah. We don't get enough of that these days, where the music and the words are actually speaking to each other in significant ways.

[Robin Hilton]

Well, that's because you've got 10 different people writing the same song, working on the same song.

[Lars Gottridge]

Oh, we're gonna get into this, Rob.

[Robin Hilton]

Man, I could go so long. I remember a friend of mine who loves Taylor Swift saying, I mean, she writes all her own songs. And I thought you're supposed to write your own songs. But I know in the pop world that's just not how it works more often than. No, okay. I don't want to be that guy. I mean, I am that guy.

[Lars Gottridge]

It's okay. Lean into it, Robin. Let's make some people. I'm about to make some people mad with what I'm about to play. So let's go. Let's go.

[Robin Hilton]

Okay, well, let's. So let's do this. I'll just say that. The New world from Shearwater. It is out at the end of July, July 31st.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

Support for NPR comes from IBM. On Smart Talks with IBM, host Malcolm Gladwell speaks with leaders who are pushing the boundaries of AI and technology in partnership with IBM.

[Guest or Listener]

Hello.

[Lars Gottridge]

Hello. I'm Malcolm Gladwell, host of Smart Talks with IBM. I sat down with Alon Cohen, who leads research and development at ufc, to discuss the complexity of using technology to analyze fight data. With kick to the head, it makes contact with the outside of my arm, which I brought up. In our world, that's a blocked strike. Yeah, but teaching a computer what exactly that means and when and how. Like when my arm is up, that's a block. When my arm is down and hits

[Robin Hilton]

my shoulder, that's not.

[Guest or Listener]

Not.

[Lars Gottridge]

It's those nuances that proved incredibly difficult for machines to be able to handle for a very, very long time. That is, until IBM entered the octagon.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

Listen to Smart Talks with IBM wherever you get your podcasts.

[Announcer]

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[Robin Hilton]

Okay, Lars, you said that you were about to make everyone angry with your next pick.

[Lars Gottridge]

So the stoner metal band Sleep. Are you familiar with Sleep?

[Robin Hilton]

I do know Sleep, yeah. I can't say that it's a band that I reach for and put on very often, but I know Sleep.

[Lars Gottridge]

So they stopped being a band for a while. They got back together, but you know the whole spiel.

[Announcer]

Right.

[Lars Gottridge]

And the main person who writes all the music and sings, his name's Al Cisneros. But like his right hand man on guitar was Matt Pike. If the name Matt pike rings a bell.

[Robin Hilton]

It does.

[Lars Gottridge]

Yep. I'll get to that in a second though. So there's a new Sleep song. It's called have Spacesuit Will Travel. They cheekily released a 4:20 edit. So it's 4 minutes 20, 20 seconds long. And it is the first Sleep song to not feature Matt pike on guitar. But because Matt pike is not on this song, the metal world is losing its damn mind. Lots of screams of no pike, no Sleep. Or some people are calling this nap, which is a good joke. I'll allow it.

[Robin Hilton]

Yeah, that's a good one.

[Lars Gottridge]

I can talk more about the drama and what I think about this song personally, but let's listen to it. This is have Spacesuit Will Travel.

[Guest or Listener]

Sat

[Robin Hilton]

calibrates the deep space Inhaler of the way leaves the earthly days the cannabis allegiant.

[Guest or Listener]

Proceeds flies horseless chariot electric

[Robin Hilton]

over mountains

[Guest or Listener]

of the moon In Rossanam take a go.

[Robin Hilton]

Over ghost and their skill. Ionic run

[Guest or Listener]

smoke fill love the crap

[Robin Hilton]

now proceeds crusade this needs to eat from life how deep takes he. Stay the hybrid? I'm not sure I've ever clocked the stoner metal side of your music tastes. I didn't know that this was kind of your jam.

[Lars Gottridge]

I don't partake.

[Robin Hilton]

No, I know. I mean, I think of you as like straight edge.

[Lars Gottridge]

Yeah, yeah. But like, a friend of mine put it really great once. It's like, you know, with the kind of music we listen to, we don't really need weed, man.

[Robin Hilton]

Yeah, man. No. I listened to lots of stoner bands growing up, up in high school and I never did anything. I was squeaky clean. But all my friends and everyone else just thought, yeah, sure, yeah. Like they just knew I must be a stoner.

[Lars Gottridge]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just like the music.

[Robin Hilton]

I just like the music, man.

[Lars Gottridge]

So here's the thing about Sleep in this song. As I said, the metal Internet kind of lost its mind because it's without Matt Pike. And like I said, it could be because Matt's busy.

[Robin Hilton]

Well, I mean, come on. He's said some very controversial things over the years.

[Lars Gottridge]

Here's what it is. And you know, NPR actually had an impact, I think, on the way a lot of people view that Mat Pike. I edited a story on Matt pike that came out in 2022 by Grayson Curran. Yeah, Great freelance writer. And in short, the piece is about how Matt pike had kind of like gone down the rabbit hole of conspiracy theories and had used that as inspiration for a of lot. Lot of the lyrics for High on Fire songs. And some of those conspiracy theories that he was interested in that he was using influence come from David Icke, who is a known anti Semite. So it was a story about how do we reconcile this tangential influence on Matt Pike's art? And Grayson basically asks himself, can I still consider myself a fan? There are a good chunk of people who thought we did a good job of weighing Matt Pike's importance to the metal scene because he very much is. Oh, my God. Nobody has a guitar tone like that, man. And, you know, it's noticeable on this song because it doesn't come roaring out of the gate like a dinosaur on a motorcycle. Because that's what Matt Pike's guitar tone sounds like. Bubba Dupree does it. It's different. Different. But I listen to this and I hear an evolution of Sleep, like a very natural one. The use of Moog, I think, is really cool. That's never been in Sleep before.

[Robin Hilton]

I really think it comes down to when you first come to a band and what version you experience first. I mean, I remember when Pink Floyd continued back in the late 80s without Roger Waters, and I just couldn't really get into it at all. But there were friends of mine who started listening to Listening when those last couple of albums came out without Roger Water. And like, they loved it and they didn't know any other version of that band. Yeah, it's just whatever you come to first. And, you know, I don't know Sleep's work as well as you do. So I'm hearing this song kind of without any baggage or anything. And it's working for me. I. I think it. It lives in that great medium space where it's kind of heavy, but it's not thrashing around. You kind of float along with it. Even as heavy as it is, it's very.

[Lars Gottridge]

And this is another thing about Bubba's guitar solo.

[Robin Hilton]

It's very Modal have spacesuit, will Travel. That's the 4 minute and 20 second version of that song by Sleep. That's out now. Well, I got one more that I want to play and I think this is. I keep struggling to come up with the perfect word to describe what this song is. And the only word I can come up with is impressive. Impressive.

[Lars Gottridge]

Okay.

[Robin Hilton]

It's just an impressive song. One of the most impressive cuts I've heard this year. One of the most adventurous, surprising cuts I've heard this year. You know the artist, Lorraine?

[Guest or Listener]

Oh, yeah.

[Lars Gottridge]

You know. Okay. All right. I was gonna play this song.

[Robin Hilton]

Oh, Soulless Cycle.

[Lars Gottridge]

I was gonna play the song backstory for folks. I was supposed to tape this show last week.

[Robin Hilton]

Yeah, we're a week behind here.

[Lars Gottridge]

But I completely lost my voice. Like, Robin got the voice memo that I sent him and I sound a demonic teenager.

[Robin Hilton]

You sounded like that kid in the Simpsons.

[Guest or Listener]

Like, hey, hi.

[Lars Gottridge]

I was gonna play this song.

[Robin Hilton]

So is this the song that I said? I said, did you. Did you keep the songs you were gonna play a week ago and you said you dropped one. This was it.

[Lars Gottridge]

This was the song that I dropped just because I was like. I wanted to play the sleep song. So I'm glad you're playing Lorraine. Cause I think this song is so cool.

[Robin Hilton]

It is so cool. It's called Soulless Cycle. For people who don't know Lorraine, Taja Cheek, she's from Brooklyn. Her music is just.

[Lars Gottridge]

There's not a word for it.

[Robin Hilton]

There is no single word for it. It's broken beats and sung and spoken word. Lots of electronics, a little bit of jazz, a little bit of ambient, a little bit of R B.

[Lars Gottridge]

This song has got a metallic crunch to it.

[Robin Hilton]

There's a crunch to this. The song gets a. It's probably the boldest thing. I mean, it sounds like Lorraine. It's not like wildly out of her lane or anything, but I would say it's certainly one of the boldest songs I' ever heard from her. It just grabs you by the throat. It is from an album called Fata Morgana, which is incredible title. I don't know if you know what. Do you know Fata Morgana?

[Lars Gottridge]

No, what is it?

[Robin Hilton]

So it's this wild optical illusion that happens. The way the light is sort of bends through the air. Especially if you're looking out over water where it'll look like a boat is floating in. In the air. Oh, over the water. Or sometimes you see mountains that aren't there. It's a great optical illusion. Illusion. Fata Morgana from Lorraine. And the song again is called Soulless Cycle. This is from an album that's not out until August 14th, and we'll go out on this. Lars Gottridge, Always a great hang.

[Lars Gottridge]

Yeah, thanks for having me, Robin.

[Robin Hilton]

It's All Songs Considered from NPR Music.

[Guest or Listener]

It.

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