Interview: Isaiah Rashad is ready to bare his soul

Summary

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NPR Music Podcast

Episode: Interview: Isaiah Rashad is ready to bare his soul
Date: May 16, 2026
Host: Rodney Carmichael
Guest: Isaiah Rashad

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Episode Overview

This episode features an in-depth, revelatory conversation between NPR Music’s Rodney Carmichael and acclaimed rapper Isaiah Rashad, centered on Rashad’s new album, It's Been Awful. The discussion explores themes of masculinity, vulnerability, healing, family, addiction, sexual identity, and the unique pressures of being a Black artist in hip hop. Rashad reflects on the four years since a traumatic violation of his privacy and how it catalyzed his personal growth and creative transformation. Throughout, the conversation stays candid, sensitive, and unflinching.

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Main Topics & Key Discussion Points

The Weight and Relief of Release Day

• Rodney Carmichael congratulates Isaiah on his new album and probes his feelings about finally putting it out after such a long, personal process.
• Isaiah Rashad shares a sense of both excitement and relief:

  “I've been living with this stuff for so long… just excited for it to be off my shoulders, you know what I mean?” (01:54)

The Reality Behind the Album Title

• Carmichael asks how literal the title It's Been Awful should be taken.
• Rashad honestly admits that, while acknowledging his blessings, the last few years have been extremely difficult on a human/emotional level. The album is about “trying to move towards clarity” and “making something healthy.” (03:02)

The 2022 Sex Tape Leak & Creative Liberation

• Discussion of the traumatic leak that publicly outed Rashad without his consent, meant to cause pain but indirectly freeing him artistically:

  “I felt less exposed and more like somebody took an opportunity for me to take a step in my life and present myself how I wanted to… It allowed me to say, fuck it. I have nothing else to do but to lay it all out there.” (04:27)

• Rashad expresses a newfound obligation to be transparent, not a "poster child," but unafraid to stand in his own truth. (05:59)

Honesty, Artistry, and the End of "Puzzle Raps"

• Rashad reflects on being more than 88% honest on previous records; now he’s at “100.”
• He intentionally moves away from his abstract “hieroglyphics” style to a more direct, detailed, diary-like approach.

  “My only obligation was to… be as honest as you can be. Don't try to make a hit… don't try to reinforce your masculinity and rah, rah. It's like, all right, be soft, man.” (09:30)

Rapping and Masculinity in Hip Hop and Black Communities

• The pair discuss the “straitjacket” of masculinity in hip hop.

• Rashad notes that, ironically, after being outed, some expected him to present as more feminine, but rejects prescribed masculinity altogether:

  “I don't know what it particularly means outside of… I don't even understand. I think within the Black community, the idea of what being masculine is just kind of, like, fucked up in itself.” (12:13)

• Rashad advocates redefining masculinity, centering sensitivity, care, and self-love rather than self-sacrifice:

  “Being sensitive and being a father, being a brother takes a lot of sensitivity… the most masculine shit… is my friends who… just talk to me about stuff.” (13:19)

• On parenting:

  “Teaching them to be sensitive… you could be teaching your kid not to cry and it's like, what does that mean?” (14:04)
  Cites basketball star Wemby’s refusal to hide his emotions as inspiration.

Family Legacy, Sexuality, and Generational Trauma

• Rashad details generational cycles around sex addiction and secrecy in his family, which he processes in songs like “Act Normal”:

  “Turned out the whole family was sex addicts. Found some was ashamed of ways in the brain and they passed down…” (18:25)

• He strives to end those cycles for his own children and is learning to balance empathy and confrontation with family members. (20:58)

The Songwriting Process and Superpowers

• Rashad describes making the album as “writing a diary”, with some songs directed at close friends and family:

  “A lot of this album feels like you talking to a friend, a person… your audience is a very intimate conversation…” (25:08)

• “Superpowers” becomes a personal affirmation and a letter to his best friend, reflecting resilience amid pain:

  “How I get so fucked up and clean again. I don't know… I know niggas gonna judge me, but I don't judge them.” (23:04)

On Addiction, Sexual Identity, and the Lack of Representation

• Rashad discusses how cycles of addiction and self-destructive behaviors were amplified by the pressure to hide parts of himself:

  “They don't write stories about the bisexual black boy… It’s like, kind of defined for us before we even… get the opening book, that you're either this or you're that. There is no in between.” (27:46)

• He shares how watching Moonlight a year ago moved him to tears, emphasizing the rarity of seeing his experience depicted. (28:16)

Artistic Growth & Regret Over Past Lyrics

• Admits discomfort with older, more misogynistic lyrics, calling it “karma” for making certain songs (34:54):

  “That last project, I'm like, that's nasty. Why were you talking like that?” (34:16)

• Grateful for growth, but doesn't entirely disavow past art, seeing it as phases of himself—even if not all songs remain in his performance sets. (35:39)

Healing, Support, and Family

• Describes unexpected support from fellow artists (from Tyler and Frank Ocean, to the Brat, to queer rappers from New Orleans) after his privacy violation, and emphasizes how much family support and therapy helped him heal.

  “The best ones [messages] were, I love you. Keep going.” (31:59)

On Finding Peace and Reclaiming Vulnerability

• Isaiah credits time, therapy, and creating new music for his healing:

  “I gotta give a lot of it to my family for making sure we talked about all this stuff… The music really helped, man.” (38:25)

• For him, writing the songs was a crucial coping mechanism:

  “If I can express it, I don't even deal with it no more. It's kind of like a blessing. As soon as I rap it… that made it easier.” (39:50)

Album Construction & “Thesis Statement” Songs

• “New Sublime” was the first track made and sets the thematic stage for the whole album:

  “I'm cut from a sinful nation. I feel afflicted. Falling over. Ask me who I'm fucking, I've been fucking up since they sent my sister back to jail…” (42:05)

• Process detailed: over 100 demos, with the final album curated for honesty and musicality (40:49).

On Love, Asexuality, & Self-Discovery

• Rashad honestly questions whether love is enough or even applicable, wondering if he may be asexual:

  “My greatest fear isn't, like, being bisexual or anything. It's like, what if I'm asexual? Like, what if I don't like anybody?” (43:24)

• Emphasizes the importance of self-love and community over fitting into imposed categories.

The Superman Motif & Reclaiming Superpowers

• Throughout the album, Rashad uses Superman/Clark Kent metaphors to articulate transformation and vulnerability:

  “There's a Superman motif throughout the album… That's him at his purest.” (44:38)

• His "kryptonite" was shame and secrecy; regaining his “superpowers” is about reconnecting authentically with his audience.

  “It felt like somebody was trying to take something from me, but it was really taking my connection with, like, my listeners away… the time’s up for facades. The time’s up for being afraid of yourself… and self abuse. It was. It really felt like if I didn’t do it, I’m gonna die.” (45:04; 46:27)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (With Timestamps)

• On creative liberation post-leak:
  “It allowed me to say, fuck it. I have nothing else to do but to lay it all out there.” — Isaiah Rashad (04:27)

• On honesty in this album:
  "Up until this point... I probably was being like 88% honest... Now it's more like 100." — Isaiah Rashad (06:55)

• On redefining masculinity:
  "Even the word masculine just have us, like… The most masculine shit that I've seen from my friends are these guys who I thought, you know, super tough guys who, like, bro, why don't you just talk to me about this stuff?" — Isaiah Rashad (13:19)

• On family legacies and sex addiction:
  "Turned out the whole family was sex addicts... found some was ashamed of ways in the brain and they passed down." — (18:25)

• On past lyrics and personal growth:
  “That last project, I’m like, that's nasty. Why were you talking like that?” — Isaiah Rashad (34:16)

• On the need for representation:
  “They don't write stories about the bisexual black boy… I finally watched [Moonlight] like a year ago, and I cried, like, so much." — Isaiah Rashad (27:46; 28:16)

• On performance, vulnerability, and artistry:
  “As rappers... the foundations of our stuff is art. Like, it's art. And... you're a journalist, either an autobiographer, or you’ve agreed to tell what your best friend's doing.” — Isaiah Rashad (30:42)

• On healing and self-acceptance:
  “If I can express it, I don’t even deal with it no more... As soon as I rap it, it’s like, okay, that made it easier.” — Isaiah Rashad (39:50)

• On the essence of his journey:
  “It felt like somebody was trying to take something from me, but it was really taking my connection with, like, my listeners away… the time’s up for facades... time’s up for self abuse. You know, it was that, like. It was. It really felt like if I didn’t do it, I’m gonna die.” — Isaiah Rashad (45:04; 46:27)

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Important Segments & Timestamps

• [02:44] — How literal is “It’s Been Awful?”
• [03:49] — Discussing the sex tape leak, liberation, and pain
• [06:41] — Honesty before and after public outing
• [10:00] — Intentionally being “soft” and vulnerable in music
• [11:04] — Reimagining masculinity in Southern hip hop
• [13:55] — Fatherhood and raising sensitive children
• [18:25] — Family legacy, cycles of addiction
• [22:08] — “Superpowers,” self-interrogation and friendship
• [27:46] — Cycles of addiction and lack of bisexual Black narratives
• [34:16] — Regret over past lyrics, artistic growth
• [38:25] — Finding peace through family, time, and therapy
• [41:32] — Curating the album from 100 demos
• [42:05] — Debut of key “New Sublime” lyrics
• [43:24] — Questioning asexuality and the definition of love
• [44:34] — Superman motif, reclaiming “superpowers”
• [45:04] — Overcoming shame, reconnecting with his audience

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Conclusion

Isaiah Rashad’s interview with NPR’s Rodney Carmichael is a masterclass in self-revelation, creative honesty, and vulnerability. Rashad’s story is not just about recovery from personal trauma, but about challenging and expanding the definitions of masculinity, vulnerability, and honesty in hip hop and Black communities at large. His album, It’s Been Awful, is framed as both diary and testimony—a work that draws direct lines between lived experience, generational inheritance, and artistry. The episode is a call for more compassion, more candor, and a new vision for authentic Black masculinity in the arts.

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This summary is designed to provide a thorough, engaging, and accessible guide to the episode for listeners and non-listeners alike, capturing both its emotional core and key factual revelations.

Transcript

[NPR Pop Culture Happy Hour Host]

New shows, new music, new movies. Keeping up with pop culture sometimes feels like a full time job. Thankfully, over at Pop Culture Happy Hour, it's literally our job. We break down what's actually worth watching, listening to and pretending you already knew about. So the next time someone says, did you see that? You can say, yeah, obviously. Follow NPR's Pop Culture Happy Hour wherever you get your podcasts.

[Podcast Disclaimer/Ad Announcer]

A quick note before the show. This podcast contains explicit language.

[Rodney Carmichael]

If you asked for my list of the top five most fearless rappers alive, I would have to say the name Isaiah Rashad five times. This is Rodney Carmichael with NPR Music. And this is a conversation four years in the making. That's how long it's been since the TDE rapper experienced a rude awakening and started the heavy work of redefining masculinity in his own image. The result is here. The album is. It's been awful. And Isaiah's fourth studio LP is the most vulnerable, honest and, yeah, fearless confrontation with himself, with hip hop, and with the patriarchy at large. A warning to listeners and parents who might have younger children listening. There is some profanity and we cover everything from depression to substance abuse to sex addiction. But mostly we talk about everything he recovered in the process. His integrity, his community, and his creative superpowers. So here's my conversation with Isaiah Rashad.

[Isaiah Rashad]

Oh, snap.

[Rodney Carmichael]

Hello, Isaiah Rashad. How you doing, man? It's Rodney Carmichael on the other end, man.

[Isaiah Rashad]

Nice to speak to you, man.

[Rodney Carmichael]

No doubt, no doubt. Appreciate you being on the other end. Been really digging this album, bro.

[Isaiah Rashad]

For real?

[Rodney Carmichael]

Yeah, man, for real.

[Isaiah Rashad]

Okay.

[Rodney Carmichael]

So how's it feeling, man? It's release day.

[Isaiah Rashad]

I mean, it's cool, man. I've been living with this stuff for so long that I'm, you know, just excited for it to be off my shoulders, you know what I mean? Out in the world.

[Rodney Carmichael]

How long have you been living with it?

[Isaiah Rashad]

I think I wrapped it up around November.

[Rodney Carmichael]

Oh, wow.

[Isaiah Rashad]

Yeah.

[Rodney Carmichael]

Okay. I feel like that's rare in hip hop. Usually people say they going to the last, to the 11th hour.

[Isaiah Rashad]

Nah, nah. I mean, I think for my previous ones, I could say it was like that. But for this one, we were really keyed in on getting his rollout together and getting all the visuals and creating, you know, creating a world around everything before we gave it to him.

[Rodney Carmichael]

I got you. Well, I wanna say right out the gate, man, this album is incredible. It's honest, it's brave, it's bumping, you know, it feels like it's your best work yet, man.

[Isaiah Rashad]

Thank you man, yeah.

[Rodney Carmichael]

And it's really evident how much work you put into it, too. I mean, like, a lot of emotional lifting and labor, so to speak. So I'm curious, like, how literal should we take the album title? Like, how awful has it really been?

[Isaiah Rashad]

I mean, without necessarily, you know, overlooking my blessings in life and opportunities I've had? I think it's. On a human level, it's been pretty fucked up. But at the same time, you know, like, the. The whole attitude towards it was recognizing, like, the different kind of spaces that I could particularly be in, but moving past it, trying to move towards, you know, clarity. I've been through a lot of adjustments, I guess you could say, the past couple years. And just, to an extent, re understanding my identity to myself. So that was really the biggest part of this project, was making sure I stayed true to making something healthy.

[Rodney Carmichael]

Well, just to put a fine point on it, you really experienced such a huge violation of your privacy. From what we all know now is the leaking of a sex tape four years ago that outed you without your consent. Something that was clearly intended to cause you a lot of hurt and pain. But this album is so liberating in a sense that I wonder, is it possible that, you know, an incident that was meant to cause you so much hurt and pain, maybe on the other end, liberated you too, in a creative sense.

[Isaiah Rashad]

I'm a full believer in destiny and a full believer in, like, you know, like, I feel like I'm an instrument, a vessel for God or whoever you believe in individually. I feel like I'm being led by that spirit to, you know, be a hug for people and to be a human, like a mirror for certain people. And like, my music isn't for everybody. I don't think anything's for everybody. But for the. For the audience that it does reaches. It does reach. I feel like it's important that I'm as transparent as possible. And I never felt like I didn't feel. I felt less exposed and more like somebody took an opportunity for me to take a step in my life and present myself how I wanted to and to express what I'd been going through or even, you know, just all of it about myself in a way that I could have done it, I guess, neater. But I feel like. Like you said, I feel like it was purposeful. Cause it allowed me to say, fuck it. I have nothing else to do but to lay it all out there. And I was going. Like you said, I was going through a lot of pain that I needed to identify. I Needed to find new ways to make sense of everything. And like, you know, just the. Without going into too much depth, like there's not a lot of room for any of that in the typical black community.

[Rodney Carmichael]

Exactly.

[Isaiah Rashad]

So, you know, it was like I was really felt like I was trying to be. Avoid being. Being ostracized by my own people. And then I guess up until this point, I felt more acceptance for people who, you know, just share similar experiences. They don't necessarily. They tell me, I don't know who else knows, but people find a reason to tell me about stuff in their lives now. So I felt there was an obligation to, you know, not be a poster child for depression or the post child for addiction or sexuality at all. But definitely being like, I'm not afraid to stand on what happens in my life. And again, like, everything happens for a reason.

[Rodney Carmichael]

Well, I want to get into that a little more in terms of. Especially when you talk about the black community, especially the hip hop community. But I'm curious first, like, what would you say it gave you the freedom to talk about that you hadn't before?

[Isaiah Rashad]

I feel like up until this point in comparison, I probably was being like 88% honest at face with everything, with what I was being comfortable about. And then now it's more like 100. And it doesn't. I guess it just doesn't hurt to. I don't feel the risk factor in talking about stuff. You know, I feel like the only people who listen to it want to hear about it or can identify with it at this point anyway.

[Rodney Carmichael]

Well, you've always been such a feelings based artist. Right? Like, but on this album, everything feels less opaque, if you will. You know, it's like you're filling in the details, your thoughts, your experiences, a lot of context in your life. You know, these are not the classic Isaiah Rashad puzzle raps that you used to like to give us.

[Isaiah Rashad]

I'd say that was something that particularly I didn't want to do with this album. I feel like that was, if it was anything holding me back was my own understanding of how to say what I wanted to say. So you say puzzle rap and I say hieroglyphics. To me, I was rapping in hieroglyphics. And if you understood, you understood. But even if you understood, you couldn't necessarily explain that to somebody else.

[Rodney Carmichael]

So how did you go about? Did it require you to be a different kind of rapper when you got in the booth in the studio?

[Isaiah Rashad]

I think just trying to be more intentionally descriptive because I don't really use punchlines, and I don't really use a lot of metaphors or similes. So it was like. It was harnessing my. The flow and the style that I already used, and it was really just being descriptive and challenging myself to do that. Like, you know, at the first level of it all, it has to be entertaining to me. I feel like I already just say shit. And I'm like. And I feel like I have a certain cadence that kind of is more of a flow to itself than anything else I'm saying. So I feel like I just had the opportunity after everything to just say it. Everything. Just as long as I keep a little flow to it, keep a little style to it, make sure I don't finish a song without throwing some little pizzazz. I'm like, I feel like the mission was to only just. It's like a diary this time, you know, for sure that's all it was supposed to be. Especially after all of that and everything the past couple years, it was like, I'm either gonna fall off or not. Like, you know, like, it's not in my hands with this album. And so my only obligation was to. The essence of the art was like, well, just be as honest as you can be. Don't try to make a hit like. Or not necessarily a hit, but, like, don't try to go in here and try to reinforce your masculinity and rah, rah. It's like, all right, be soft, man. Be. And not even like saying that's a representation of any size of sexuality, but, like, you now have an opportunity to be, you know, thoughtful and not be so callous.

[Isaiah Rashad (Rapping/Singing)]

I heard that house got motion physics poses, pictures, oceans, liquor, shiners, vibes still

fucking no functions don't do a line

nigga focus physics prophecy, Victims, closure, sickness, cold depiction time is all day up

[Isaiah Rashad]

most occasional

[Isaiah Rashad (Rapping/Singing)]

fury abs in the month of dizzy scathing, lusting, anxious suffering I

[Rodney Carmichael]

feel like we wear masculinity almost like a straight jacket in hip hop. Yeah, you know, you're from Tennessee, I'm from Georgia. Even though I'm a tad older, I think a lot of the Southern rap that you grew up on shaped me, too. So in a sense, we both come from this era where, you know, your identity, your gender, your sexuality, it all had to line up in, like, a very specific way for you to call yourself a man.

[Isaiah Rashad]

Yeah.

[Rodney Carmichael]

You know, even though our understanding of that has expanded as a society, I'm not sure that it has in hip hop. So, like, how do you think about what it means for you to be challenging those norms and expectations, not just in your private life, but in your music, too.

[Isaiah Rashad]

I feel like right now, I mean, how do I feel about challenging it?

[Rodney Carmichael]

Or do you feel like that's even what you're doing? Do you feel like you're challenging any of the norms around masculinity and hip hop with your music right now?

[Isaiah Rashad]

I mean, yeah, I agree that I am. It wasn't my intent to, but I think it's more so that. I guess even after my recorded history, I guess some people assume that I would just turn into a different person.

[Rodney Carmichael]

You mean in the last five years?

[Isaiah Rashad]

Yeah, I guess, like, in the way I present myself, I notice people or upset that I'm not. I don't come off more feminine now.

[Rodney Carmichael]

Really?

[Isaiah Rashad]

Yeah, like I was supposed to. So I guess that's a thing, you know, a lot of. A lot of. My best friend. My best friend who really helped me put myself together post, like, right when I was in between college and actually meeting the people that would get me to tde, was like, super in touch with himself. Gay guy who, super masculine, though, was more of a man than I've ever met anybody. Took care of me and my friends and was a shooter in the army and all this other shit, you know what I'm saying? So I don't know what it particularly means outside of, like, I don't know. I don't even understand. I think within a black community, like, the idea of what being masculine is just kind of, like, fucked up in itself. I don't even know what that means. Especially because we kind of live in a matriarchy compared to the rest of the communities that we share space with. I don't know how other races and cultures deal with stuff, but to me, at the basis, black people are centered on matriarchy. Like, being a man is kind of second to being a. You know, it just. We just have to. I don't know. I don't like the tough guy shit. I don't like that everybody I grew up with, like, being sensitive and being a father, being a brother takes a lot of sensitivity, you know? I feel like the most masculine shit that I've seen from my friends are these guys who I thought, you know, super tough guys who, like, bro, why don't you just talk to me about this stuff? You know, why don't you just. It was those kind of concerns where I was just like, man, our ideas of just. Even the word masculine just have us,

[Rodney Carmichael]

like, you know, yeah, yeah, I do I do. I got a six year old son. I know. You're a dad too. You got three kids, right?

[Isaiah Rashad]

Yeah. And teaching them to be sensitive is like a. And to be okay with being sensitive is such a. Depending on who, what kind of beliefs you deal with. It's like you could be teaching your kid not to cry and it's like, what does that mean? I took the Wemby thing. It was a quote that Wimby. I'm a huge basketball fan. That Wemby had the other day about. He refuses to. To like something. I'm paraphrasing. But he refused to do that to himself, to where he has to conceal his emotions. He was crying on court, like, why do I have to hold myself back for other people? I guess it's the same type of way. That's how I feel about the whole masculine thing within our community. Like, why can't I be sensitive and still, you know, I can still. I'll change a tire still. I'm a cry while I do it maybe, you know, if I'm going through it, you know, type of shit.

[Rodney Carmichael]

I mean, have you always felt this way or is there is this kind of like newfound.

[Isaiah Rashad]

No, I've always felt like this though. I've always been a pretty hug on my people, kiss on my people, like kind of guy. Like I'm always, you know, I was raised by women I don't know any other way but to show somebody I love them. Never been a tough guy. Hey baby, come inside. I want to play some fire shit. And if you have the time,

[Isaiah Rashad (Rapping/Singing)]

maybe

[Isaiah Rashad]

you could slide with me.

[Rodney Carmichael]

What were your main models of, of. Of manhood growing up?

[Isaiah Rashad]

Well, I summed up being a man to providing. I think it was providing and like, I'll get in trouble for you, like if if need be. Like self sacrifice was masculine to me. You know, providing and self sacrifice, putting other people ahead of yourself, which is like a weird. It's the only thing I saw. And like compared to the men in my community, in my life who were spoken negatively about. Compared to the ones that were positive, the positive ones. I noticed that the common thread was just that they were willing to sacrifice their whole selves for everybody else. So I think our idea of masculinity kind of comes with a. A bit of like putting your everything after the people you care about, which is like, that's not healthy, you know, that's not self love.

[Rodney Carmichael]

Do you see yourself as a sacrifice on any level? Because I feel like even though it wasn't your intent or Your agency was robbed on some level in the way that it happened. You sparked a conversation that is, like, long overdue, especially in hip hop. Yeah. Does that feel sacrificial to you in any way?

[Isaiah Rashad]

Nah, man. I think I thank God for everybody who came before me, who dealt with any of this. I don't even know what the call of this is. I don't even know what the call, like, what happened, what it is. But, you know, like, any black. Anybody, any male or whatever, male, female, period, who's had to deal with their sexuality or the questioning of. In front of people. Like, I thank them for making this easier for me. Like, even. Even somebody like fucking Frank Ocean kind of softballed this for me. I feel like. For me. And, like, it'd be different if I was out here. Like, if I was young, nudie, you know, you're right. Like, it'd be different, but I'm, like, super hard. Yeah, but like, all my. At least, like, all my biggest. Like, at least, like, when I'm on stage, my biggest songs are, like, about crying, man. They're about crying.

[Rodney Carmichael]

You've always been vulnerable.

[Isaiah Rashad]

Yeah. So it's like, it's cool. I feel like I've been. I'm just at this moment, able to be who I probably was supposed to be, even if I'm still a person learning myself and still, you know, I'm just supposed to be the homie when you turn it on in the most authentic way. And I feel like this is God and the universe's way of allowing me to continue to be that and continue to be useful.

[Rodney Carmichael]

Yeah, well, for sure. For sure. You talk about family a lot on this album. It comes up again and again on the song Act Normal. You talk about, in a sense, you're talking about the sins of the father passing down to the child, even in terms of things like sex addiction. And your family.

[Isaiah Rashad (Rapping/Singing)]

We was 12 in the back on the macintish do you wanna see some nasty shit? My daddy kept his stash on the bedroom floor that's why he locking up his bedroom door Quiet secrets learn to be the best at. Turned out the whole family was sex addicts. Found some was ashamed of ways in the brain and they passed down prayed for the crash shots they say your mama was in love when her best friend died in those feelings wrong, she quit calling who let the bugs and the wife I remember now don't feel too much till your eyes get desensitized Four babies who elders informed it was normal you'll grow older, run trains and remain Here maybe it was love and sexless sadness and what's another? Porn and the morn might change your worries Living in war with yourself but it's love When I don't trust a boy or a girl act normal.

[Rodney Carmichael]

Were those things that you always understood or were they revelations that you only started to reckon with? Like in, in recent years.

[Isaiah Rashad]

Things that I've understood the past past few years, I could say the last. I've dealt with them since I was like about 20, 21, you know, like I've had a good record. I've recognized is why it has such a. Such a strenuous relationship with like my uncles and my. My biological dad and even like my brother at times that without asking, without asking, they kind of gave me the blueprint of, you know, terrible things to do. Infidelity, Passing down how they looked at. How minimally they looked at sex and stuff outside of like just a. A pleasure thing. Not something you really share with somebody. It's a, you know, definitely. And the they left, left around on the, on the computer. The they left sitting on the counter. We was like eight, nine, you know, just irresponsible things.

[Rodney Carmichael]

The porn magazine.

[Isaiah Rashad]

Yeah, all that. The porn magazines, the. The vcrs back then. And then you. You see a swath of it and you like, what the fuck is this? And you never forget that kind of shit.

[Rodney Carmichael]

Yeah.

[Isaiah Rashad]

And it. And especially if these are the people who you kind of shaping yourself around, you know, you don't immediately see they're like, oh, I'm becoming these motherfuckers type of shit.

[Rodney Carmichael]

So as you grow into that understanding on this end, are those conversations that you end up having with any of those family members or as they kind of continue to go unsaid or just put into the music?

[Isaiah Rashad]

I'm trying to figure out a way between empathizing and confronting somebody when I'm in those situations to where I'm like, I can't really. I could get at you for what you did to me or you inadvertently did, but then I'm like, somebody did that to you? And so I'm like, I don't even know where to go with that outside of like just trying to end the cycle on my end. Cause them niggas need hugs, man. Them niggas enies have terrible opinions of themselves and self. Of self worth. And we just express it in. In different ways, you know.

[Rodney Carmichael]

Yeah, yeah, this is, this is bringing me back to more of the stuff you talk about in the album. One of my favorite songs on the album is Superpowers Yeah, it comes at the end, but I. I feel like the whole thing sort of speaks to, you know, the entire experience that you're kind of unfolding on the album. And there's this part where it sounds like you just straight up start interviewing yourself and, like, posing all the questions that you want to ask on the low. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that part. And I don't know if you. Can you. Can you quote some of those lines I think I got right now?

[Isaiah Rashad]

I think I got it on me right now. Oh, yeah, man. I was writing this for my, like, best friend in. Not in Memphis, in Murfreesboro, Michi. Cause it was like a. It's just like, to me, this is

[Rodney Carmichael]

positive music, like, to me, for sure.

[Isaiah Rashad]

So it was like, you know, it's like, for all the sad shit, I kind of like to recognize. I don't like to brag or be braggadocious. I kind of like trying to just have confident raps, you know? And like, on some. I don't want to hop in an interview and be like, well, you know these people on the Internet. Da, da da, da. But I like to at least, like, be like, I see that stuff. And though it does particularly bother me if I'm having a wrong day, I still know. I still know myself. I like to think I know myself better than anybody else does. How I make it through all that bullshit. I don't know you talking about that.

[Rodney Carmichael]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Isaiah Rashad]

How I get so fucked up and clean again. I don't know how you rapping circles around niggas, but you don't drop. I don't know. I know niggas gonna judge me, but I don't judge them. It's real, though. That's how, like, that's how I felt about all that type of shit. Cause I feel like I really don't have an understanding of how this happens outside of, like, God planning. And I don't think, you know, self abuse isn't God's plan. But I feel like the lesson was, you know what I'm saying? I can't fathom why I'm here. And I wanted n to know that from time to time. I do be feeling like, outside of, like, two of my peers that kind of raised me, there's nobody better than me at this. I just. I have a style that nobody has. That nobody, none of it. I don't feel like that. You can't name 10 rappers that could write a whole song without a simile and a metaphor and be able to get it off. I feel like people are crutches to English and they don't know English type of shit on certain, like, you know, tools and stuff. So that was my whole thing with that. It was. I was talking to my. My best friend Michi. I went to college. This song was literally me just talking to him. I think I said in the first line, it's for my. This. When I say this for my dog, then Lil Meeche from the dirt. I'm saying Lil Meeche from the dirt. Cause he.

[Rodney Carmichael]

Okay, yeah.

[Isaiah Rashad]

So this. The whole song is for him. It's for him and anybody.

[Isaiah Rashad (Rapping/Singing)]

I don't know how I get sober up then clean again I don't know how you be rapping circles around but your own drop I don't know I know gonna judge me but I don't judge them I don't know Count my money, count my sins I don't know Did I sacrifice their innocence? But then I don't know Do I love you like I love you on that shit oh, no see I'm never going back but then again I don't know Been finding out they ain't my real friends no more Chasing money I need to chase my kids oh, no I got this power in my hands hold on I told you we would do it big. For sure, for sure.

[Rodney Carmichael]

A lot of this album feels like it's you talking to a friend, a person. Like, your audience is a very intimate conversation between you and somebody that you're allowing us to eavesdrop on a little bit.

[Isaiah Rashad]

My mom and my sister particularly.

[Rodney Carmichael]

They definitely come up. Yep, they come up especially. You mentioned your sister in the first song on the album, too.

[Isaiah Rashad]

Yeah, man. We had been waiting for my sister not to put her business out there, but we had been waiting for my sister to get out of jail for, like, four years, and that was, like, a tough thing to go through. And I ain't realized how much I love my sister. I know I love my sister, but, like, how much I might have, like, depended on her talking to her. And then when people are in jail, I don't really like to. They want to hear it, but I don't want to tell them I'm having something good going on. I don't like expressing that kind of. It was hard to have a connection. So all I could do is, like, listen and pray for my sister whenever I talk to her, so. And I feel like she knows me better than anybody else. And we didn't talk about this shit one time the whole time she was in jail. She just asked me if I was okay.

[Rodney Carmichael]

Okay.

[Isaiah Rashad]

Okay. So I feel like that was the most real version of my sister. It was like, I don't give a fuck. It was her to me, it was her decision. I don't give a fuck. You know what I mean?

[Rodney Carmichael]

You mentioned a minute ago, you mentioned the lesson, you know, the lesson that comes out of it. What for you is the.

[Isaiah Rashad]

Is the lesson, don't do drugs and don't like. Like, especially don't be out here by yourself depending on a substance, so you don't numb yourself out and don't fucking be intoxicated, recording yourself, doing stupid shit. Like, I couldn't blame nobody for that. I put myself in a situation, so I don't even. Even if the intent was vindictive or, you know, malicious, it's still like, at the end of the day, it came from my hands, man. It came from my own shit. And that was the main thing for me to. That was the biggest lesson for real was like, self responsibility. It's like, I'm gonna be the one to build it up and I'm gonna be the one to tear it down. And I gotta figure out, you know, what mission am I really on?

[Rodney Carmichael]

I wonder if in listening to this album, you talk about, you know, addiction and relapse and rehab. And I started to wonder if the cycles of addiction that you've battled, openly battled through the years was tied in any way to the parts of yourself that you felt like you had to hide from the general public.

[Isaiah Rashad]

I guess. I guess, like, it all feeds into each other. Mm. Part of me was like, I tried to give one particular thing too much power and say, this is why I feel like that when there's. It's all of it. They don't write stories about the bisexual black boy to the point that I was afraid to watch moonlight. And I. Oh, really? Yeah. I finally watched that shit, like, a year ago, and I cried, like, so much.

[Rodney Carmichael]

I was like, that is such a good movie.

[Isaiah Rashad]

I was like, oh, this is crazy.

[Rodney Carmichael]

You knew about it already or how did you end up.

[Isaiah Rashad]

I knew about it. It's like. I guess, like I said, like, they don't write books about, like, curiosity about the black bisexual curiosity, any of that. Like, and they defined. It's like, kind of defined for us before we even, like, get the opening book, that you're either this or you're that. There is no in between where we're at. And there is no I got kids. There's like. And I'm like, those relationships weren't fake. Like, I didn't. Those tears that we shared together and the experiences we went to, they weren't fake. They weren't, like, made up. So to have people tell me that I'm a liar when I'm like, nah, bro, I've been in love, bro. I know what that is like. But I just, you know, it's. I only have so much room to be black and a rapper, and that's two double masculines on top of each other. And then all these other shit. I only have so much of my. My soul to actively, you know, if there was a measure. If you're. If there was a measuring cup of how much you can handle what you're stressing, I kind of just put sexuality in the back of that. I'm like, this is enough. I'm like, this is that. And getting on and just not trying to be broke was enough. And I didn't feel like at the time it was a particularly important part of my story, especially since it's like. It's just. It felt like the most private part. My love life is pretty private.

[Rodney Carmichael]

The most private?

[Isaiah Rashad]

Yeah. In general.

[Rodney Carmichael]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Isaiah Rashad]

And I don't feel a qualm about having privacy. That was the one thing. Like, I have no problem being like, that's none of your business. Like, as a. From my idea of how the audience. Anybody else, like, would take some stuff, I'm like, it's just not your business. It wouldn't. But at the same time, I guess, like, being a rapper is being naked. So they expect that. Wow. And when they find out that you're not that naked, they're like, hold on, you got clothes on.

[Rodney Carmichael]

Well, being a rapper, especially in this day and age, is also a performance. I don't think we encounter many that are as willing to be as naked and vulnerable as you've always been. But as you're being, especially right now,

[Isaiah Rashad]

I feel like people just play dumb because as rappers.

[Rodney Carmichael]

You talking about the rappers or the audience rappers?

[Isaiah Rashad]

Both, Both. Both. Both as fuck. But, like, rapp, like, we. The foundations of our stuff is art. Like, it's art. And if you want to go to the purists, you know what they'll put on VH1. What the idea of fucking, like, being hip hop is. It's every form of black art. If it's black art in community, that's hip hop. So rap comes from serving. You know, like, MCing is different, but rapping is. You are a journalist, either an autobiographer, or you've agreed to Tell what your best friend's doing. One of the two. Like, to me, that's how I always looked at it.

[Rodney Carmichael]

You know, the most surprising thing to me in the immediate aftermath of everything was, like, all the support that you said you got from hip hop. After the tape leaked, I was really curious, like, what did that support look like? Was it just online or, like, you know, what did it look like and how did it make you feel at the time?

[Isaiah Rashad]

The best ones were, I love you. Keep going. The okay ones were, who was it? How did niggas. Niggas would act like I got sick or something. And they like. And it's like. They're like, bruh, don't worry. No, it's the random. I see you somewhere, and then you grab my shoulder and you say, but don't worry about what them people saying. And I'm like, I was worried about getting some food before you said that shit. But at the same time, like, I appreciate, like, niggas was just trying to hold me in a way they can hold me. And I don't know, man. Like, it's just, you know, the thing. Even when we talking about these are just unsaid things in our community, they're not things that don't exist. They're just things that we act like don't exist, you know, where we might act like it's a sickness, but, you know, I don't believe that. But the support, I wasn't. I was kind of surprised by it. But again, I kind of give, like, presidents and, like, credit to people like Tyler and fucking Frank and even, shit, the Brat, man, and anybody else who even. Something, like, for me, like, some of. Like, some of the trans rappers and even, you know, rappers in the queer community from New Orleans, Louisiana. I got a lot of people on from there that reached out to me and, like, that type of stuff. And it was like, I make pretty sensitive music. So it was like. I feel like that was the main thing that was like, what's. What's the difference? I think it was people who favorite song of me was me. Like, belittling a woman was like, they felt betrayed. And I'm like, we both have a problem, bro. That was the main thing for this album, really, that I was most proud of. I'm like, I don't have one bar talking bad about a woman. And compared to my last project, it was at the last project, I was at the height of me being indulging in escapism, okay? To the point that, like, I listened to that album and I'm like, ew, this is gross. I'm like, this is really, like, gross. This is like.

[Rodney Carmichael]

That's how you feel now about that, man?

[Isaiah Rashad]

That last project, I'm like, that's nasty. Why were you talking like that?

[Rodney Carmichael]

That's funny.

[Isaiah Rashad]

You.

[Rodney Carmichael]

I don't know if you remember, you did a breakdown with us, you and Kyle, for.

[Isaiah Rashad]

Yeah, that's one of my favorite interviews.

[Rodney Carmichael]

Okay. Yeah, I love that interview too. It's one of my favorite interviews, for sure. But yeah, that song comes to mind when I think about lyrically what you're talking about. Cause, I mean, it was obviously very, like, tongue in cheek and playful, but it was a lot going on in the song. You know what I mean? So are those the kind of songs

[Isaiah Rashad]

that you talking about? That 9:3 freestyle? That shit's crazy.

[Rodney Carmichael]

No, I don't think this was 9:3 freestyle.

[Isaiah Rashad]

This was. I felt like when all that shit happened to me, I was like, that's karma for writing this song.

[Rodney Carmichael]

Really?

[Isaiah Rashad]

That it particularly stuck out to me. I was like, you're terrible. You deserve this.

[Rodney Carmichael]

Well, see, now I gotta go back and listen to 9:3 freestyle. Yeah.

[Isaiah Rashad]

I was like, you're. I'm like, this is. Watch what you say. I've watched what I said since then. Watch what you say.

[Rodney Carmichael]

Hold on now. I'm going back to look at the one that we talked about. This song right here. Hey, mister.

[Isaiah Rashad]

Oh, yeah, all that. The whole album.

[Rodney Carmichael]

Okay.

[Isaiah Rashad]

Yeah, that whole album.

[Rodney Carmichael]

So does it feel weird to, like. Do you feel the need to distance yourself from previous art that you had out in the world?

[Isaiah Rashad]

Nah, it's who I am. It's who I was at different phases of myself. You know, I'm not particularly proud of it, but I signed up for this. I signed up for this. I was like, you know, a certain part of it is me appreciating the growth, and if it's a good song, I'm gonna play it if they want to hear it, man. As long as it ain't too crazy. It's certain shit that I'm just not playing no more. But for the most part, everything's a go.

[Rodney Carmichael]

What will your set list look like now? You got a big performance in LA tonight, right?

[Isaiah Rashad]

Yeah, it's gonna be a lot of the. Like, probably a handful of the new stuff and then a handful of just. I guess if there was the greatest of that they're expecting of, you know, the track list really don't change. I Never really did 9:3 freestyle anyway. I don't really like doing hey, mister. It takes a lot of energy to do that, a whole bunch to make it entertaining to me. So it's kind of like, you know, the universe never allowed me to even indulge in that shit on stage anyway.

[Rodney Carmichael]

I know you said that you're not intentionally setting out to, you know, to challenge or subvert, you know, masculinity or the way it's been represented, but it definitely feels like you are modeling a new version of black masculinity within hip hop specifically. Is that something that you, you know, take pride in or something that you, you, you can acknowledge or appreciate or how does that feel?

[Isaiah Rashad]

Yeah, man, any, like, anything positive. Like, I, I have no issue, like towards it. I don't have a particular thing that I think about on the day to day as far as when it comes to this. I think just being authentic to myself. I have this rare opportunity to not care about what people think of me. And my idea of it is just like, that doesn't give me the excuse to, you know, go pop pills and go be a wild boy. I'm like, oh, I could be myself and be at peace. I don't have to be myself and go party or even if people party, it's cool. But I ain't gotta be myself and go look for a way to express myself. I'm like, damn, you know, I'm naked now. To me, like I'm completely naked in the world, take me as I am type of shit.

[Rodney Carmichael]

So how did the piece come? Because I know right after everything happened, you talked about some of the tragedies that came immediately following that. I think you had a couple of car accidents.

[Isaiah Rashad]

Yeah, man, I was wilding, bro. I was wilding. My granddad died, my uncle died.

[Rodney Carmichael]

Condolences.

[Isaiah Rashad]

Yeah, so I guess the peace the piece came from, I gotta give a lot of it to my family for making sure we talked about all this stuff. It wasn't just stuff to like, you know, for the ones that already knew me 100,000%, it was more reinforcing, you know, and game planning, therapy. And for the people who didn't have all the info, it was, they embraced and was more like, okay, so how do we get you, I guess, okay with yourself? How do you get yourself? You know what I mean? Because you think you're okay with yourself and then you like, you feel exposed.

[Rodney Carmichael]

Yeah.

[Isaiah Rashad]

And then you have to deconstruct what is exposed. And what is all that kind of shit. I mean, it's been a four year, five year break, so time gave me peace. And time to consider, like, what kind of album. Like, the music really helped, man.

[Rodney Carmichael]

Yeah.

[Isaiah Rashad]

Like, being able to channel and center myself. And if I could figure out the way. If I could figure out words to put in a song that, again, aren't hieroglyphics and puzzles, then it kind of just makes everything easier. I cried so many times after so many of these songs I made, especially Act Normal and especially New Sublime. And in a couple of joints that are on the deluxe, they haven't. That you might not. I don't think you've heard, so.

[Rodney Carmichael]

Oh, wow.

[Isaiah Rashad]

They were pretty key for me. Yeah. Some of my favorite songs. They were pretty key for me to, you know, if I can express it, I don't even deal with it no more. It's kind of like a blessing. As soon as I rap it, it's like, okay, that made it easier. Yeah. Yeah.

[Rodney Carmichael]

Where in the process did those two songs in particular come in? At New Sublime and Act Normal. Was it toward the middle end?

[Isaiah Rashad]

New Sublime was probably the first track I made for the album, really?

[Rodney Carmichael]

And the first song on the album. Okay.

[Isaiah Rashad]

And then Act Normal was around last October. Might have been October before I was making this album. Since the end of 2023.

[Rodney Carmichael]

Yeah. I was gonna ask how long since.

[Isaiah Rashad]

About December 23rd, January 24th. That's when I started making this album for real. And I got done, like, last November. So it took about roughly a year and a half, almost two years to record it. We recorded about 100 songs.

[Rodney Carmichael]

Wow.

[Isaiah Rashad]

Yeah.

[Rodney Carmichael]

And what was that selection process like? What were you looking for when you listened back to see what would make it okay?

[Isaiah Rashad]

Partly. What is a full song out of these hundred demos? What's closest to the full song? And then what after New Sublime and then the track particularly mom the man on a Mission, they kind of set me sonically where I wanted to go, like a medium. I'm like, I want to be as far as New Sublime. I'm like, okay, I want to rap more, but I want to say what I'm saying here. Like, I want to say more of this, but I don't want it to be in the same flow. And then man on a Mission was like, okay. It kind of set the tone that I wanted to kind of dance the whole album.

[Rodney Carmichael]

Okay, for sure.

[Isaiah Rashad (Rapping/Singing)]

Yeah.

[Isaiah Rashad]

I wanted to dance in some type of way the entire album. And they kind of set their tone on that.

[Rodney Carmichael]

New Sublime is like. It's like your thesis statement right out the gate.

[Isaiah Rashad]

Yeah. I thought it was really powerful. Me particularly. I like that first line. That and I thought it was. As soon as I wrote it, I was like, okay, this is gonna be interesting. Because I had never seen nobody say nothing like that. When I read something out, you know what I'm saying? I'm cut from a sinful nature and I feel afflicted Falling over I'm like, okay, this is gonna be an interesting song.

[Isaiah Rashad (Rapping/Singing)]

I'm cut from a sinful nation I feel afflicted Falling over Ask me who I'm fucking I've been fucking up since they sent my sister back to jail Back when we were papas in if I romanticize them Percocets I might relapse again Giving up my home I've been the Clark as kin at my lowest.

[Rodney Carmichael]

And you mentioned Act Normal. The hook on Act Normal is like, man, it's so. It's so layered. Yeah. I just keep playing that song back. And what inspires that? Like, what are you processing through the hook of that song?

[Isaiah Rashad]

The people making me choose, like, who are you? And I'm like, I don't trust anybody. Like, in that, like. I guess it's mostly what I was expressing. I don't trust a boy or a girl act normal. Like, who am I supposed to. You know? Like, who am I? Like, who am I supposed to? Like, how can I. What if I don't like anybody? Yeah, it's like, what if. What if that. What if. What if at the end of it, I don't like anybody?

[Rodney Carmichael]

Well, I hear you doing that, too, in the album. In a sense, you almost, like, questioning. Questioning love or if love is enough sometimes.

[Isaiah Rashad (Rapping/Singing)]

Yeah.

[Isaiah Rashad]

I was at a particular point where I was like, maybe it's me that I love, like, in a. But I guess my greatest fear isn't, like, being bisexual or anything. It's like, what if I'm asexual? Like, what if I don't like anybody? And I've been going through all this to just realize I kind of want to be with community and not necessarily be with somebody. And then maybe not even have a sexual relationship. Maybe I question that. Like, my fulfillment on that type of stuff.

[Rodney Carmichael]

Yeah, well, I know I gotta wrap up, man. One last thing I wanted to say

[Isaiah Rashad]

is, I appreciate you, too, by the way, man. I could talk to you all day. You had an easy conversation. Oh, man.

[Rodney Carmichael]

It's a great conversation. Back to superpowers at the end of the album. One of my favorite parts is when you sing the hook. Cause it's almost like you're kind of discovering and reveling in the fact that you Got real superpowers. But I also love how it's a callback to the beginning of the album on New Sublime, where you say you've been the Clark. Is Kent at your lowest?

[Isaiah Rashad]

Yeah. There's a Superman motif throughout the album.

[Rodney Carmichael]

Okay. Okay.

[Isaiah Rashad]

And it wasn't intentional until I realized I was doing it.

[Rodney Carmichael]

Okay.

[Isaiah Rashad]

Yeah.

[Rodney Carmichael]

That's your comic book thing kicking me.

[Isaiah Rashad]

Yeah.

[Rodney Carmichael]

Right? Yeah.

[Isaiah Rashad]

And the part that's the psychology, that. That's him at his purest. Mm. You know, that's who he really is.

[Rodney Carmichael]

Well, just to draw that metaphor out a little bit further, I'm curious, like, how did you overcome your kryptonite and tap back into your superpowers?

[Isaiah Rashad]

When it feels like the world's trying to take something away from me and I had to question what it was, I'm like. Cause it felt like somebody was trying to take something from me, but it was really taking my connection with, like, my listeners away. You know, it was really like taking. These are some of my. Without knowing them, some of my best friends, you know, without necessarily knowing them. It's some of the people I get to. You know, like, when you get to talk to a stranger somewhere and you get to tell them some shit, I feel like that was the opportunity that I was at. A empath of not being able to have anymore.

[Rodney Carmichael]

Wow.

[Isaiah Rashad]

It was. I don't know. It felt like a do or die thing. I feel like God in this timing in the world was letting me know, like, okay, it's time for. Time's up for facades. The time's up for being afraid of yourself. Time's up for being afraid of not having acceptance from the people you want it from. And maybe if you can't get acceptance from those people, you don't need them in your life. And it's time up for self abuse. You know, it was that, like. It was. It really felt like if I didn't do it, I'm gonna die.

[Rodney Carmichael]

Well, I'm glad you did it. I'm glad you did it. And I hope hip hop meets you fully. Not halfway, but fully. Isaiah Rashad, I appreciate you, folk.

[Isaiah Rashad]

Oh, man. I appreciate you, man.

[Rodney Carmichael]

Yeah, thank you.

[Isaiah Rashad]

You from Atlanta.

[Rodney Carmichael]

I want to grow on, man.

[Isaiah Rashad]

Yeah, man, chat. You know, we an hour away from you, for sure.

[Rodney Carmichael]

Keep protecting your peace, man. We need you, man.

[Isaiah Rashad]

I appreciate you, man. Hopefully.

[Rodney Carmichael]

All right.

[Isaiah Rashad]

Shake your hands sooner.

[Rodney Carmichael]

I mean, no doubt, no doubt. All right, man. Enjoy. Enjoy this album, man. And. And this weekend and. And well past it, man. This is a. This is a. It's a Good one, man.

[Isaiah Rashad]

Thank you for show. I appreciate the impact, bro.

[Rodney Carmichael]

No doubt, no doubt. Take care.

[Isaiah Rashad]

You too, man.

[Isaiah Rashad (Rapping/Singing)]

I want some more drink about nine energized on me I had to sit up slow sad giving up on love I want some more train pain feeling like same thing. Prepare for the crash, baby past living in the past baby stairs only at the mask, baby.

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