Podcast Summary: All the Buried Women - Episode 2: The Invisible Woman

Release Date: March 20, 2025

Hosts: Beth Allison Barr and Savannah Locke
Title: The Invisible Woman

1. Introduction and Trigger Warning

Beth Allison Barr opens the episode with a crucial trigger warning for listeners, noting that the discussion will delve into sensitive topics such as sexual abuse within the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC). She sets the historical context by highlighting the 1970s women's rights movements and the SBC's internal conflicts regarding the role of women in ministry.

"We want to make sure that you, the listener, have a trigger warning for this episode as it does talk about sex abuse."
— Beth Allison Barr [00:00]

2. The Divided SBC and Women's Ordination

The hosts explore the push and pull within the SBC during the early 1980s, particularly focusing on the 1983 resolution that encouraged the exploration of further opportunities for women in ministry. Savannah Locke underscores the division within the SBC, noting the small yet significant number of ordained women who faced substantial opposition.

"It is estimated that in 1984 there were around 250 ordained women in the SBC, a denomination that had over 14 million members in 30,000 churches. Despite being small in number, these ordained women were mighty in disruption..."
— Savannah Locke [00:59]

Kathy Hoppe, an ordained woman, shares her confrontational experience within the SBC, emphasizing the severe backlash faced by women pursuing ministry roles.

"I told my pastor, listen, it would be easier to be a prostitute in this church than it is to be an ordained woman."
— Kathy Hoppe [01:42]

3. Kathy Hoppe’s Seminary Experience

The narrative shifts to Kathy Hoppe’s personal journey as she enrolls in Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary in 1979. Beth Allison Barr delves into Kathy's motivations, revealing her genuine calling to ministry influenced by her pastors' teachings.

"My name is Kathy Hoppe and currently I'm an associate professor of psychology at Oral Roberts University..."
— Kathy Hoppe [03:06]

Kathy recounts the challenges she faced, including peer resistance and institutional barriers designed to marginalize women in ministry.

"I had a couple of people say, don't you want to get a Master of Religious Education? Why do you want a Master of Divinity? And that made no sense to me."
— Kathy Hoppe [04:55]

4. The Conservative Resurgence: Paul Pressler, Paige Patterson, and Adrian Rogers

Savannah Locke introduces the Conservative Resurgence, a strategic movement aimed at shifting the SBC towards fundamentalist doctrines. Barry Hankins, a professor of history, explains the roles of the three key figures orchestrating this takeover:

• Paul Pressler: The politician and legal strategist who identified and exploited structural weaknesses within the SBC.
• Paige Patterson: The theologian who articulated the movement’s fundamentalist ideology.
• Adrian Rogers: The preacher who served as the face of the movement, capable of swaying moderates with his diplomatic approach.

"Pressler and Patterson put all their eggs in the Adrian Rogers basket. And it worked."
— Savannah Locke [15:29]

Adrian Rogers is elected SBC President in 1979, marking the official commencement of the Conservative Resurgence. His inauguration speech reflects the tension and uncertainty surrounding his leadership.

"I want to thank those of you who voted for me. When you voted for me, you voted to pray for me."
— Adrian Rogers [17:08]

5. The Impact on Women: The Story of Kathy and Jeff Hoppe

Following Rogers' election, Kathy Hoppe and her husband Jeff face intensified challenges. The Home Mission Board withdraws funding based on opposition from SBC churches, primarily from Montana pastors who opposed female ordination.

"While we do not attempt to dictate the autonomy of the local church, we are unanimously opposed to the ordination of women."
— Montana Pastors [29:39]

Despite these setbacks, Reverend Eddie Rickenbaker from Belton, South Carolina steps in to support the Hoppes, allowing them to continue their ministry in North Dakota for five more years.

Kathy Hoppe shares the emotional and financial struggles faced during this period, including the loss of a child and ongoing discrimination.

"If you're not supporting ordination of women, but I'm choosing what's best for me and not what's best for the community."
— Kathy Hoppe [60:14]

6. Abuse Allegations within SBC Leadership

A significant portion of the episode uncovers the dark underbelly of the SBC's leadership, focusing on Paul Pressler’s extensive history of sexual abuse and cover-ups. Robert Downen, a reporter, provides in-depth insights into Pressler's misconduct and his pivotal role in the Conservative Resurgence.

"Paul Pressler was a crucial part of the foundation of what becomes the Council for National Policy..."
— Robert Downen [40:42]

Allegations against Pressler include molestation, groping, and rape, with at least seven men coming forward. These abuses were systematically silenced through confidential settlements and internal SBC policies that prioritized reputation over justice.

"At least seven men have come forward with abuse allegations against Paul Pressler."
— Beth Allison Barr [49:18]

Similarly, Paige Patterson faces his own set of accusations, including attempting to intimidate victims and involvement in further cover-ups. The podcast highlights Patterson’s eventual ousting from the SBC amid these scandals.

"He [Patterson] tried to intimidate her out of reporting it to police... Patterson was removed by a board that was stacked with people who saw him as almost untouchable."
— Robert Downen [52:01]

7. The Long-Term Effects of the Resurgence

By the 1990s, the SBC had transformed into a monolithic entity dominated by conservative male leadership. Women in ministry continued to face systemic barriers, while the denomination grappled with sexual scandals, abuse allegations, and financial crimes perpetrated by its leaders.

"The SBC’s leadership was ridden with sexual scandals, abuse allegations, cover ups, financial crimes, political alliances, lies, and misogyny."
— Beth Allison Barr [39:53]

Robert Downen connects the SBC's internal dynamics to broader political movements, illustrating how figures like Pressler influenced American politics through organizations like the Council for National Policy (CNP).

"He [Pressler] shapes an entire denomination to protect people like himself and ostracize people like Kathy Hoppe."
— Savannah Locke [47:12]

8. Kathy Hoppe’s Continued Struggle and Resilience

Despite facing relentless discrimination and personal tragedies, Kathy Hoppe remains steadfast in her commitment to the SBC, embodying the resilience of many women who continue to fight for their place within the denomination.

"I'm just stubborn enough to say it's my denomination. I'm not leaving."
— Kathy Hoppe [35:53]

Kathy's declaration of invisibility within the SBC archives encapsulates the broader narrative of countless women whose contributions and struggles have been systematically buried and erased.

"I thought I was invisible."
— Savannah Locke [61:02]

9. Conclusion: The Enduring Legacy of Buried Women

Beth Allison Barr and Savannah Locke conclude by reflecting on the enduring impact of the Conservative Resurgence and the ongoing struggles of women within the SBC. They emphasize that the stories of women like Kathy Hoppe are integral to understanding the denomination's current challenges and the broader fight for gender equality in religious institutions.

"She is one of many who felt invisible in a system that rejected them and their calling. She is one of many women buried in the archives."
— Savannah Locke [61:02]

The episode underscores the importance of uncovering and acknowledging these hidden narratives to foster accountability and drive positive change within the SBC.

Notable Quotes:

• Kathy Hoppe [01:42]: "I told my pastor, listen, it would be easier to be a prostitute in this church than it is to be an ordained woman."
• Adrian Rogers [14:40]: "If you will yield your life to Jesus Christ, because one day you'll be conformed to the image of God's Son."
• Robert Downen [40:42]: "Pressler was a crucial part of the foundation of what becomes the Council for National Policy..."
• Kathy Hoppe [60:14]: "I'm just stubborn enough to say it's my denomination. I'm not leaving."

Final Notes:

This episode of All the Buried Women provides a comprehensive and poignant exploration of the challenges faced by women in the SBC, intertwining personal narratives with institutional history. It sheds light on the systemic barriers and abuse dynamics that have shaped the current landscape of one of America’s largest Protestant denominations. Through interviews and archival research, the podcast honors the resilience of women like Kathy Hoppe, whose stories have long been obscured but continue to resonate in the ongoing quest for equality and justice within religious communities.