All the Buried Women: Episode 4 - People Who Have Consensual Affairs Don't End Up With PTSD

Release Date: April 3, 2025

Hosts: Beth Allison Barr and Savannah Locke

Introduction: Unveiling Hidden Abuses in the SBC

In Episode 4 of All the Buried Women, hosts Beth Allison Barr and Savannah Locke delve deep into the harrowing realities of sexual abuse within the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC). This episode meticulously uncovers individual stories, institutional failures, and the profound psychological impacts on survivors, challenging the narrative perpetuated by one of America's largest Protestant denominations.

1. Historical Context: The James Reed Case [01:48 - 04:23]

The episode opens with the 1993 lawsuit involving James Reed, a music minister at North Point Baptist Church in Baltimore. Reed was convicted of child abuse, specifically molesting three brothers from the congregation. Despite his prior conviction and accusations of abuse at another church, North Point Baptist hired and retained him, leading to legal action against multiple SBC entities.

Beth Allison Barr [02:24]:
"James Reed was convicted of child abuse... The suit also named Northpoint's pastor, Dwight Evans, the Baltimore Baptist association, the Baptist Convention of Maryland and Delaware, and the SBC."

Key Points:

• Institutional Negligence: The SBC and associated bodies were sued for negligence in hiring and supervising Reed.
• Local Autonomy vs. Central Oversight: The SBC claimed no authority over local church hiring practices, highlighting a recurring defense strategy.

2. Institutional Response and Pattern of Deflection [03:49 - 05:27]

Savannah Locke explains the SBC's defense, emphasizing local church autonomy to evade direct accountability for Reed's actions. Beth Allison Barr critiques this stance as inconsistently applied, noting the SBC's active role in regulating women's roles within churches while neglecting accountability in abuse cases.

Savannah Locke [04:44]:
"Gunther's statement underscores a consistent pattern in the SBC's defense strategy for sexual abuse allegations, distancing itself from direct accountability by emphasizing its lack of authority over individual churches."

Key Points:

• Selective Regulation: The SBC imposes restrictions on women's roles but ignores oversight in cases of abuse.
• Survivor Advocates: Krista Brown emerges as a pivotal figure challenging the SBC's indifference.

3. Krista Brown's Story: From Victim to Advocate [05:27 - 16:58]

Krista Brown shares her traumatic experience with Tommy Gilmore, a youth pastor who sexually abused her over several months. Despite her attempts to seek help, the SBC community sidelined her, blaming her for the abuse and offering no substantial support.

Krista Brown [05:27]:
"No, what they are protecting is their own crony network and their own system of unaccountable power. But it has nothing to do with protecting women... we are the fall guys on whom all blame is put."

Key Points:

• Abuse Dynamics: Gilmore exploited his position, manipulating Brown's faith to justify his actions.
• Institutional Betrayal: The SBC's response compounded Brown's trauma, leading to her labeling as a "jezebel."
• Advocacy and Backlash: Brown's efforts to expose the abuse were met with hostility and discrediting by SBC leaders.

4. The Psychological Toll: Insights from David Pooler [19:37 - 27:59]

Professor David Pooler discusses his research on the psychological impacts of clergy sexual abuse, revealing alarmingly high rates of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) among survivors.

David Pooler [22:27]:
"Harm that David Pooler's research suggests is equivalent to or more damaging than the multifaceted trauma experienced by combat veterans."

Key Points:

• High PTSD Rates: 39% of clergy abuse survivors in Pooler's study exhibited PTSD, surpassing rates in other trauma groups.
• Institutional Betrayal Theory: The SBC's failure to support survivors exacerbates their trauma, leading to complex PTSD.
• Lack of Support Systems: Only a fraction of survivors felt believed or supported by their churches.

5. Institutional Failures: The Guidepost Report [40:18 - 46:44]

The episode examines the SBC's Guidepost Report, a 288-page investigation into the denomination's handling of sexual abuse from 2000 to 2021. Despite the report's scathing findings, including Krista Brown's repeated mentions, the SBC's implementation of recommended reforms has been largely ineffective.

Krista Brown [42:04]:
"It's a scathing report which basically shows that for decades it confirmed and validated everything I had been saying for years."

Key Points:

• Comprehensive Documentation: The report exposed decades of institutional prioritization of reputation over accountability.
• Ineffective Reforms: Proposed changes, such as a public database of accused clergy, were either stalled or inadequately implemented.
• Continued Denial and Dismissal: SBC leaders actively work to discredit the report and downplay the severity of the abuse crisis.

6. Public and Internal Reactions: Voices from the SBC and Beyond [47:58 - 55:36]

Various voices weigh in on the SBC's handling of sexual abuse, reinforcing the severity and systemic nature of the problem.

Robert Downen [49:38]:
"If you think about all of the steps that a case would have to, to go through just to land on our radar... I think the 400 number should be almost paralyzingly terrifying."

Barry Hinkin [54:09]:
"Historians are roundly unimpressed... the methodology that the Chronicle and San Antonio Express News used is very impressive."

Key Points:

• Underreporting and Barriers: Structural and cultural obstacles prevent abuse cases from surfacing.
• Expert Validation: Historians and researchers affirm the credibility and extensive nature of the abuse documented.
• Survivor Solidarity: Advocates like Krista Brown emphasize the personal and collective struggles faced by survivors.

7. Moving Forward: Calls for Accountability and Reform [53:05 - 57:53]

Meredith Stone and other advocates argue that acknowledging women's full humanity is essential for addressing sexual misconduct. Krista Brown underscores the necessity of holding the SBC accountable to protect future generations.

Krista Brown [57:53]:
"This has always been about people. How can we help people, ordinary individual people... This is not a matter of hating the church or wanting to harm the church."

Key Points:

• Systemic Change Needed: Fundamental reforms are required to dismantle the culture of silence and impunity.
• Survivor-Centric Approaches: Policies must prioritize supporting survivors over protecting institutional integrity.
• Ongoing Struggle: Despite revelations, significant resistance and minimal progress persist within the SBC.

Conclusion: The Road Ahead and Final Reflections [57:53 - End]

Beth Allison Barr and Savannah Locke wrap up the episode by highlighting the ongoing battle for justice and recognition faced by survivors like Krista Brown. The hosts preview the next episode, which will explore another buried story within the SBC archives, emphasizing the enduring impact of these hidden narratives.

Beth Allison Barr [57:53]:
"In our final episode, we're going to talk about a woman whose story was buried in the archives and has never been told publicly until now."

Final Thoughts:

• Persistent Denial: The SBC continues to resist substantive changes, prioritizing image over meaningful action.
• Survivor Resilience: Advocates remain steadfast in their pursuit of truth and reform, despite personal and institutional obstacles.
• Critical Awareness: The episode serves as a crucial call to recognize and address the deep-seated issues of sexual abuse within religious institutions.

Notable Quotes:

• Krista Brown on Faith and Betrayal [09:29]:
  "I was a girl who wanted always and only to know God's will and do God's will... I became compliant."

• David Pooler on PTSD Comparison [22:27]:
  "Harm that... is equivalent to or more damaging than the multifaceted trauma experienced by combat veterans."

• Robert Downen on Reporting Challenges [49:38]:
  "Think about how many aren't out there. (...) If we were able to find that many, ... I think I get very frustrated..."

• Krista Brown on Institutional Inaction [44:44]:
  "They put up these study groups, committees... none of which have accomplished much of anything."

• Savannah Locke on Affair Language [33:09]:
  "This just isn't a consensual affair. People who have consensual affairs don't end up with PTSD."

Key Takeaways:

1. Systemic Abuse: The SBC has a documented history of sexual abuse and institutional negligence that protects abusers while discrediting victims.
2. Psychological Impact: Survivors of clergy sexual abuse experience profound trauma, often exacerbated by the institution's betrayal.
3. Barriers to Justice: Cultural, structural, and procedural obstacles prevent survivors from seeking and attaining justice.
4. Call for Reform: There is an urgent need for the SBC to implement transparent and robust measures to prevent abuse and support survivors effectively.
5. Survivor Advocacy: Voices like Krista Brown's are pivotal in challenging entrenched power structures and advocating for systemic change.

For more detailed credits and further information, please refer to the show notes.