David & Amy Sedaris

Summary

All There Is with Anderson Cooper: Episode Featuring David & Amy Sedaris

Release Date: January 8, 2025

In this poignant episode of All There Is with Anderson Cooper, host Anderson Cooper engages in a heartfelt conversation with siblings David and Amy Sedaris as they navigate the complexities of grief shaped by personal loss. This episode delves deep into their experiences with loss, from the passing of their parents and sister to the recent death of Amy's beloved pet rabbit, Tina. Through their candid discussions, listeners gain profound insights into coping mechanisms, the enduring impact of grief, and the importance of familial support.

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1. Introduction to the Sedaris Family's Grief Journey

Anderson Cooper opens the episode by introducing guests Amy and David Sedaris, highlighting their shared history and the profound losses they've endured. Growing up in Raleigh, North Carolina, the siblings faced the tragic deaths of their sister Tiffany, who died by suicide in 2013, their mother Sharon in 1991, and their father Lou in 2021 at the age of 98.

Notable Quote:

"Grief can feel so lonely but talking about it, and listening to others share their grief experiences helps."
— Anderson Cooper [00:40]

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2. Coping with the Loss of a Pet: Amy's Grief Over Tina

The conversation begins with Amy Sedaris sharing her recent loss of her pet rabbit, Tina, emphasizing the emotional bond she had with her pet. Despite the common perception that pet loss is less significant, Amy reveals the depth of her sorrow and the comfort she finds in grieving.

Notable Quote:

"It's just sad because we were, you know, he's my roommate. We lived together. I spent a lot of time at home with my rabbit."
— Amy Sedaris [04:50]

Amy discusses her struggle with others not recognizing the validity of her grief over Tina, highlighting societal tendencies to downplay pet loss.

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3. Remembering Their Parents: Sharon and Lou Sedaris

David Sedaris reflects on the impact of losing both parents, detailing their distinct relationships with Sharon and Lou. Sharon's death in 1991 left a void, while Lou's passing in 2021 brought its own set of emotions given his advanced age and the long history they shared.

Notable Quote:

"I cannot believe I lived through my mother's death. I can't believe it."
— Amy Sedaris [13:56]

David delves into the complexities of grieving a parent who was a central figure in his life, contrasting it with his experiences of losing Lou.

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4. The Tragic Loss of Sister Tiffany: Navigating Suicide and Mental Illness

A significant portion of the dialogue focuses on the Sedaris siblings' sister Tiffany, who died by suicide in 2013. David elaborates on the familial and emotional turmoil following her death, addressing common misconceptions about guilt surrounding suicide.

Notable Quotes:

"The tragedy wasn't her suicide. It was her mental illness. And there was nothing anyone could have done to change that."
— David Sedaris [07:09]

"Whenever you talked to Tiffany, you were just, like, wiped out after the phone call."
— Amy Sedaris [08:22]

Both siblings express the lingering pain and the challenges in comprehending Tiffany's actions, emphasizing that mental illness was the root cause rather than personal failings.

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5. Revisiting Memories: Cleaning Out Tiffany's Apartment

Amy recounts the emotional experience of visiting Tiffany's apartment after her death, describing the chaos and remnants of Tiffany's life that offered little insight into the sister they thought they knew.

Notable Quote:

"It's like I had no clue who she was, who she'd become."
— Amy Sedaris [10:41]

This visit deepens their understanding of Tiffany's internal struggles and the disconnect between her outward life and her inner turmoil.

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6. David Sedaris' Essay on Lou Sedaris' Passing

After a brief interlude, David shares excerpts from his essay published in The Guardian, reflecting on the death of their father Lou. He captures the numbness and the futile attempts to maintain normalcy in the aftermath of Lou's death.

Notable Quote:

"The world didn't slow down for his death, much less stop. Not even for us, his family."
— David Sedaris [19:47]

David contrasts the communal grieving often expected with the quiet, internalized mourning he and his siblings experienced, especially given Lou's long life and anticipated passing.

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7. Insights on Grief, Empathy, and Moving Forward

Throughout the episode, Amy and David offer invaluable lessons on handling grief. They stress the importance of empathy, the need to assume others may be grieving, and the significance of maintaining connections even years after a loss.

Notable Quotes:

"You kind of have to assume everybody's grieving all the time."
— Amy Sedaris [25:12]

"It's never too late. Sometimes somebody dies and you don't send a letter or you don't say anything... but it's never too late."
— David Sedaris [27:57]

These insights serve as a reminder for listeners to approach others with kindness and understanding, recognizing that grief can be an ongoing, invisible struggle.

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8. Conclusion and Reflections on the Unchanging Nature of Grief

As the episode concludes, the Sedaris siblings reflect on how grief remains a constant companion, shaping their perspectives and relationships. They acknowledge that while the world continues unabated, their personal experiences with loss have fundamentally altered their interactions and outlook on life.

Notable Quote:

"The world doesn't stop. You want the world to stop for a second when you lose somebody important, but the world just goes on."
— Amy Sedaris [24:22]

This closing thought encapsulates the essence of the episode, highlighting the universal yet deeply personal nature of grief.

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Key Takeaways:

• Validity of All Grief: Whether it's the loss of a pet or a family member, every form of grief is valid and deserves recognition.

• Impact of Mental Illness: Tiffany's suicide underscores the profound effects of mental illness, emphasizing that such tragedies are not a result of personal failings.

• Empathy is Crucial: Assuming that others may be grieving fosters a more compassionate and supportive environment.

• Never Too Late to Connect: Rebuilding relationships and offering support can happen at any stage, providing comfort and healing.

• Grief is Ongoing: The process of mourning doesn't have a set timeline, and it's essential to acknowledge and respect its enduring presence.

This episode of All There Is offers a raw and authentic exploration of grief, providing listeners with both solace and understanding through the experiences of Amy and David Sedaris.

Transcript

[Anderson Cooper]

There's a reason the SleepNumber Smart Bed is the number one best bed for couples. It's because you can each choose what's right for you whenever you like. Firmer or softer on either side Sleep number does that one side cooler and the other side warmer. Sleep number does that too. You have to feel it to believe it. Sleep better together. Why choose a sleep number smart bed so you can choose your ideal comfort on either side. And now it's the lowest price of the season on our top selling i8 smart bed your best savings plus special financing limited time shop a sleep number store near you. See store or sleepnumber.com for details.

[David Sedaris]

This past Sunday was January 5th, the anniversary of my dad's death. Not many people in my life remember the significance of the day for me, but I don't really expect them to. After all, it's been 47 years since my dad died. I think it's probably like that for a lot of you listening as well. Do you have dates on your calendar that you silently dread? Dates others in your life forgot long ago or maybe never even knew? I mentioned earlier that I've been trying to spend a few minutes each day with the child I was when my dad died, talking to him, letting him know he isn't alone and that I see him someday. I imagined that child, me, curled up in my dad's lap, feeling his warmth. I tried to remember the sound of his voice and the feeling of safety and love I always had when I was with him. I continued to be kind of embarrassed saying this out loud, but it was comforting. Most of Sunday I spent with my kids, Papa sleeping, and when I put my youngest, Sebastian, to bed. Yeah, everybody's sleeping. I sang him the same lullaby my dad sang to me. He'd make up words to Brahms lullaby. So I try to do the same lullaby and good night to Sebastian. And alive. I'm even worse at singing and humming than he was. But it feels so remarkable, the cycles of life and families. I can't believe that I have two boys. I can now love the way that he loved me and my brother. And it was a nice way to end the day that in other years has so often ended in tears. Welcome to all there is. I'm Anderson Cooper. Before we begin, I've opened up the voicemail box again and would love to hear from you if there's something you've learned in your grief that might be helpful for others. We're going to keep it open for the next two or three weeks. The number to call is 404-692-0452. You can leave a message up to three minutes long, but if you get cut off, you can always call back and continue your message. We may use all or some of your message in a future podcast or video. Feel free to leave your name and number in case we might want to reach out to you. We obviously wouldn't include your number if we use your voicemail again. The number to call is 404-692-0452. Repeat it at the end of this podcast. My guests today are actress, author, comedian Amy Sedaris and her brother, author David Sedaris. Early in her career, Amy starred in Strangers With Candy on Comedy Central. She's gone on to appear in a slew of TV shows and movies and written a number of funny and irreverent books on entertaining and crafting. David has published 14 books. Barrel Fever, Holidays on Ice, Me Talk Pretty One Day, just to name a few. They grew up in Raleigh, North Carolina with four other siblings, one of whom, Tiffany, died by suicide in 2013. She was 49. Their mom, Sharon, died in 1991 when she was 62, and their father, Lou, died in 2021 at the age of 98. I've gotten a lot of voicemails from listeners about grief after a pet dies. And Amy's pet rabbit died recently, so I started off our conversation with that. Amy, you actually recently experienced the death.

[Amy Sedaris]

Of your rabbit, Tina. So I've been bawling my eyes out and I like the feeling of crying because I'm not a big crier either. But there's something about losing a rabbit. It just brings you down. I don't like losing a button. I don't like losing anything. You know what I mean? I have such a hard time with death, but yeah, I'm still sobbing about it.

[David Sedaris]

When did Tina die?

[Amy Sedaris]

It doesn't feel bad to do it. Tina died on Halloween.

[David Sedaris]

How long you had?

[Amy Sedaris]

We had 10 great years together. I mean, that rabbit, jackpot. Spoilt rotten. Both of us, we both hit the jackpot. I adopted Tina. They said it was a girl, okay. And then four years later I found out Tina was a boy. So I just kept the name Tina. She's a big raving queen in my apartment.

[David Sedaris]

And you've had. This is your third rabbit.

[Amy Sedaris]

My third rabbit.

[David Sedaris]

What is grief like for you over Tina?

[Amy Sedaris]

Well, it's funny because people do give me that look like, oh, like it doesn't count. They just think it's ridiculous, crazy to be sobbing over a seven Pound rabbit. You know what I mean? They just kind of roll their eyes a little bit. But it's sad because we were, you know, he's my roommate. We lived together. I spent a lot of time at home with my rabbit. A lot. It's just the two of us. He slept with me, played with him. And also, it's your responsibility. My dad used to say, that damn rabbit holds you hostage. But they do kind of hold you hostage. Moose vets do, right? Or boyfriends. So I've been really grieving about that DAV Urn for Tina, like, five years ago.

[David Sedaris]

Wait, you bought an urn for Tina five years ago?

I had a lot of time, yeah, because I bought an urn for her last rabbit, too. So I'm just always on the lookout, you know, for something that could hold rabbit ashes, you know, so it's small.

[Amy Sedaris]

But my mother's ashes in just an old candle box.

[David Sedaris]

How do you feel about ashes? Do you feel a connection to the ashes?

[Amy Sedaris]

No, not really, No.

[David Sedaris]

I bought a house on the coast of North Carolina my mother loved. It's where we used to go as children on vacation. So, gee, about four years ago, we were all there for Thanksgiving, and we said, let's scatter Mom's ashes. My mother died in 1991, and my brother brought the can down, and we were behind the house, and we were just. And I didn't expect that, but it was like touching the ashes, and it was really a beautiful thing to do as a family, and it was really beautiful to have done it so long after she had died as well. When she died, there was so much emotion that it just would have been sort of lost in that. But it was nice to actually touch the ashes and feel connected with her. We didn't speak. We didn't. I mean, you can't shut anyone in my family up. We did not say a word.

[Amy Sedaris]

But it was a good group thing to do together. That was what I was reacting to, mostly. But the actual ashes, I just. I don't know. I don't know how much they mean to me.

[David Sedaris]

There were six kids in the family. Your sister, Tiffany, she died by suicide in May of 2013. How was that different than grief you felt in other ways?

One thing I found very interesting, and I've gotten a great many letters from people who have had somebody in their family kill themselves. And people always want to assume that you feel guilty. And I felt no guilt over my sister's death. The tragedy wasn't her suicide. It was her mental illness. And there was nothing anyone could have done to change that. And so it's been fascinating to hear from other people who have gone through the same thing, because, again, people just want to project this thing, and it's already bad enough, and then they're trying to project something on top of that that you figure you must obviously feel like it was your fault. But I didn't. And it's just a sorrow. I mean, I had a dream about Tiffany a while ago, but it was a Tiffany that I wished, like, if she hadn't been mentally ill when she had a beautiful and successful life. And it was so nice to see that Tiffany. And then when I woke up, I was sad, and I thought, well, that's not the Tiffany that existed.

[Amy Sedaris]

She talked at you. So whenever you talked to Tiffany, you were just, like, wiped out after the phone call. And you were just haunted by it for days. It was tough, and it just stayed with you.

[David Sedaris]

My brother Carter, died by suicide, and he killed himself in front of my mom. The thing that I still just can't kind of get over is the violence of it. And it is so different than the person he was. So it's interesting to hear you talk about Tiffany. There isn't this level of shock. And how could this possibly have happened? You didn't have those questions.

[Amy Sedaris]

I say my prayers every night, and I used to say all the time, there's nothing we can do for Tiffany. I would add that at the end of my prayer, like, she was alive, and there's nothing we can do for her. I think we all knew at one point this was gonna happen. We kind of knew that was how it was gonna end.

[David Sedaris]

She tried the first time, and it didn't work. And then just to think about that, your sister, you know, taking all those pills in the saddest room you can imagine in the saddest house on the saddest street. She left these notebooks behind. And the chaos on those pages, like, if that was your mind, I was just surprised she lasted as long as she did. You know, if those were your scrambled, paranoid, desperate, furious thoughts. I mean, I've been keeping a diary forever. And so this was her version of a diary. And also curious was that she capitalized the letter B. But that was all she ever capitalized.

In those diaries in those notebooks.

[Amy Sedaris]

Yeah, every B was capitalized. But for me, it was strange because she shared a house with two other people, and she had been dead for five days, and no one knew that she was in there. Dead.

[David Sedaris]

You went to her apartment?

[Amy Sedaris]

I did. My friend Paul Donnella. We drove to Boston and cleaned out her. She had a room in this house. And I was like, wow, this was. And it looked like she cleaned it up. And she had a bloody handprint on the wall. Her artwork was hanging up. A lot of the family photographs were torn in half.

[David Sedaris]

What was it like to go back there?

[Amy Sedaris]

Well, we didn't know Tiffany, so it was just like, this is where she was living. This is her stuff. These are the shoes that she wore. It's like I had no clue who she was, who she'd become. Yeah.

[David Sedaris]

The rest of us all bathed in our mother's love. And our mother didn't love Tiffany. Tiffany was.

[Amy Sedaris]

Looked like my mother.

[David Sedaris]

They were too much alike, really.

[Amy Sedaris]

I think so.

[David Sedaris]

And she never knew what it was like to. To be loved by my mother. And when our mother died, Tiffany said, you know what? I'm glad she's dead. And to me, that was the worst. Was my mother dying. Like, I don't know that life could ever be that awful again. In the wake. So I couldn't hear it because I was just in too much pain. Years later, I thought, well, every child, you have the same parents, but it's a different parent for everybody. She didn't have the same mother that I had.

And were you both aware of that as kids? And was she aware of that as a child?

[Amy Sedaris]

We knew that. Yep.

[David Sedaris]

Yeah, she was. Just wasn't loved. It was like there were six kids and five nipples. Do you know what I mean? And so. And one didn't have Tiffany's name written on it.

[Amy Sedaris]

I think about it still every day.

[David Sedaris]

You do?

[Amy Sedaris]

I mean, don't you?

[David Sedaris]

Yeah, every day.

[Amy Sedaris]

Mom and dad to people who die. Friends, animals. I remember when my mom died, I divided people up. Oh, you. Both your parents. You go stand on that side of the street because you don't know what it's like till you lose a parent. It just changes everything. And I just divided people up like that. Like, you have no idea. Really. Both your parents are alive and happy. You just wait. You just wait. And you're getting them a what? For Christmas. You're getting your mom a CD for Christmas. She's gonna die, you know, and then you're getting her that thoughtless.

[David Sedaris]

It is interesting you say that. Cause I sometimes feel like I'm the only one walking around thinking about them all the time.

[Amy Sedaris]

All the time.

[David Sedaris]

Yeah.

I think of Tiffany every day.

[Amy Sedaris]

Yep.

[David Sedaris]

And I say goodbye to her every day.

You do?

Mm.

How do you mean?

I say it out loud. Absolutely. Not a single Day that I don't think of her. But again, the tragedy was somebody who doesn't take their medication. There's. There's nothing you can do, you know, or if somebody refuses their diagnosis or. I wish. Oh, my goodness. Like the Tiffany that I had a dream about, that that was Tiffany's life.

Do you still dream about her?

Yeah, it's always nice when you. I had a really nice dream about my mom a while ago. You know, just to visit with somebody, and that's what it feels like. It just feels.

You could feel her, your mom, in the dream, like, feel her alive.

Yeah. It wasn't like I dreamt that. We were cleaning fish together and watching Donny here. It's a visit. It's an event.

[Amy Sedaris]

I have a lot of deaf people visit me. They're still around in a different way. It's a hard thing to describe. But, yes, they are dead. You can't call them up, but they're alive. Like, even with Tina, I still hear Tina galloping down the hallway or, you know, with my mom or, like, Tiffany or Dad, even. And I do feel them all the time. It's very comforting. Or you think you see them from the corner of your eye. I'm always like you did for you.

[David Sedaris]

Was your mom's death. As David was saying, it was the worst thing he.

[Amy Sedaris]

I cannot believe I lived through my mother's death. I can't believe it.

[David Sedaris]

In what way?

[Amy Sedaris]

Because I just thought I wouldn't be.

[David Sedaris]

Able to live without her or just without her love.

[Amy Sedaris]

Without her love? Yeah.

[David Sedaris]

I mean, I think it may be different with other people because they'd say, well, I still have my father's, but I never had that. So when my mother died, it was.

[Amy Sedaris]

Like he was mama's boy.

[David Sedaris]

I'm alone. I don't have anybody in my corner that way. I just adored her. Just adored her. And it happened really fast. She called and said she had cancer, and then three months later, she was dead. And I feel like my job as a writer is to get the world to love my mother as much as I did. And when I'm signing books and people come up and say, oh, I love your mother. That means the world to me. And I don't know why it's so important to me, but I felt like she deserved the world's love.

Were you able to be with her at the end, or.

No. They took her to the hospital. My dad took her to the hospital, and she died of pneumonia. She just started chemo, but I remember. And so then afterwards, we all went home. And I remember her chemo medication and stuff. We were so mad at it. Do you know what I mean? And just throwing it into a trash can. And my father's pulling it out because he wants to get a refund. He wants to take it to the drugstore and get a refund on it. Wow.

[Amy Sedaris]

Now, wait a minute.

[David Sedaris]

I remember the priest came to the house, and my mother had a jigsaw table on them. And so we were just throwing. Oh, I see you're finishing that in honor of your mother. And it's like, get out of here. Who let him in here? It was just so dumb. Like, why do you have to even ruin it by saying crap? Like, then we're going to frame it, you know? And then we're going to. We laugh so hard. Like, yeah, we just laugh so hard. Our aunt came. My mother had a sister who looked just like her and who lived in New York State. And so we didn't see Aunt Joyce that often. Man, she was Mary Poppins. And she came in and said, this is what you do. Let's get this house cleaned up. And we're going to have people over and this is what you say when they get here. And you pre cracked the liquor bottles afterwards. I started a relationship with my aunt that lasted until her death. We saw each other and we talked on the phone and we wrote each other. And it was a nice little lesson that it's never too late to be in a relationship with someone in your family. And I saw so much of my mother in her. And it was a good lesson, too, to think, oh, I can be that person one day, you know, for somebody else, like, to just fly in and say, okay, here's what we're going to do, and just kind of guide everybody through it, because in their grief, they can't see. I'm very grateful. Like, with my father's death, it was more complicated, like my mother's. Even though that was awful going through it, it was pure. Do you know what I mean? It was pure grief. And when it's complicated, then it's different. Like, I don't recall what I felt about my father grief in any way.

We're going to take a short break. When we come back, more of my conversation with Amy and David Sedaris.

[Anderson Cooper]

This podcast is supported by Sleep Number. There's a reason the Sleep Number Smart Bed is the number one bed for couples. It's because you can each choose what's right for you whenever you like. Firmer or softer on either side. Sleep number does that one side cooler and the other side warmer. Sleep number does that too. You have to feel it to believe it. Only Sleep Number Smart beds let you choose your ideal comfort and support your sleep Number Setting Sleep Number Smart beds learn how you sleep and provide personalized insights to help you sleep better. The new Sleep Number ClimateCool smart bed lets you adjust up to 15 degrees cooler on either side. It's perfect for couples who struggle with sleeping too hot. Sleep better together. Why choose a Sleep number Smart bed so you can choose your ideal comfort on either side. And now it's the lowest price of the season on our top selling i8 smart bed. Your best savings plus special financing limited time shop a Sleep number store near you. See store or sleepnumber.com for details. This podcast is supported by Sleep Number. There's a reason the Sleep Number Smart bed is the number one bed for couples. It's because you can each choose what's right for you whenever you like. Firmer or softer on either side. Sleep number does that one side cooler and the other side warmer. Sleep number does that too. You have to feel it to believe it. Only Sleep Number Smart beds let you choose your ideal comfort and support your sleep Number setting Sleep Number Smart beds learn how you sleep and provide personalized insights to help you sleep better. The new Sleep Number Climate Cool Smart bed lets you adjust up to 15 degrees cooler on either side. It's perfect for couples who struggle with sleeping too hot. Sleep better together. Why choose a Sleep number smart bed so you can choose your ideal comfort on either side. And now it's the lowest price of the season on our top selling i8 smart bed. Your best savings plus special financing limited time shop a sleep number store near you. See store or sleepnumber.com for details.

[David Sedaris]

And now back to all there is. David and Amy's father, Lucidaris, died in 2021 when he was 98. David wrote an essay in the Guardian newspaper about it, and I asked him to read part of it.

When our mother died, my siblings and I fell head first into a dark pit. Those first few days were the blackest. It was the same after our sister Tiffany's suicide with her father, though it was different. By the time the check arrived at the Island Grill that night, we were talking about other things. Gas stoves versus electric ones. A funny TV show about vampires. The time Lisa ate an entire gallon of ice cream with her bare hands while driving home from the grocery store, clawing it out of the carton with her increasingly numb fingers. Perhaps we Strayed so easily onto other topics. Because at my father's advanced age, this moment was expected. Then, too, he was lucid heiress by the second half of his 97th year, the man was a pussycat, a delight. Unfortunately, there were all those years that preceded it. The world didn't slow down for his death, much less stop. Not even for us, his family. To me, that's pretty much the worst thing that you could say, could be said about you. You know what I mean, is that the world didn't stop for people who were in your family or people who. I mean, we were talking about other things, like, 20 minutes later.

Do you think that was because he was 98 and was expected, or just the nature of who he was, how you felt about him?

It was who he was. I mean, with our mother, that never would have happened. Goodness, that never would have happened. Like, I had my father saying, you're not a writer. You're a loser. And you know what you are a big fat zero. Like, just constant, constant. Maybe it was like one of those you reap what you sow kind of things. Now, it might have been different. I mean, Amy wasn't there.

[Amy Sedaris]

Yeah, I had a different relationship with my dad than David. I was close to my dad growing up. He lived by example. And he. I think if we live to be that old, we're gonna be like, this is what he was going through. He was still on extension ladders with electric saws. You know, at 94, he never really complained about being uncomfortable or joint pain or muscle pain. Dad didn't do that.

[David Sedaris]

No, he didn't. I just wrote this essay about going through my address book. An increasing number of people in it are dead, but I can't erase their address because I'll be on tour and I'll be at a hotel, you know, in Chicago, with a stack of postcards, thinking, I'm going to send some postcards to people. And I go through my address book and I think, oh, Melissa bank died in 2022. And I think of her for a moment. And so it keeps them alive in a way. But when you think about someone in my dad's age, everyone in his address book was dead now. He wasn't a good friend to any of them. After my mother died, this old work colleague of my dad's, he and his wife thought, well, Lou, we'll take Lou in and come over to the house for dinner, Lou. And blah, blah. And then my father went over to their house for dinner one night, and he tripped on some wet leaves in Their driveway. And he sued them.

Oh, my God.

And he said, it's not them paying, it's the insurance company.

[Amy Sedaris]

Yes.

[David Sedaris]

Wow.

[Amy Sedaris]

Yeah.

[David Sedaris]

Wow. Was it strange to hit 63 and to realize you've lived longer than your mom?

[Amy Sedaris]

Yeah, it is weird. I'm like, this is the age she died. Really?

[David Sedaris]

I thought I was gonna die at 62.

At the age your mom died?

Yeah. But I remember when my dad turned 65, we were in the car somewhere, and he said, I'm 65, but I have the mind of a 20 year old. And I wrote it down in my diary. And then when I turned 65, I thought, yeah, I have the mind of a 20 year old, too. Like, I guess you always thought when you hurt, you would have old man thoughts, you know? But you still fantasize. You're walking down the street and you're fantasizing about the most ridiculous things. And so it's a shock just how age sneaks up on you.

Yeah, totally.

And there comes a day and you look in the mirror of the store and you think, who's that old man? And you realize it's me. You know how you know you're an old man? Is that people call you young man. There was someone at the airport security a few weeks ago. Step right through, young man. And I turned to the people behind me and I said, don't you hate her? And the woman said, I'm happy to be called a young woman today. And she was, like, around my age. And then I thought, okay, you're dead to me.

[Amy Sedaris]

You're pathetic.

[David Sedaris]

And I just had to put my fingers in my ear. Come on through, young man.

[Amy Sedaris]

You know, I was thinking, the world doesn't stop. You want the world to stop for a second when you lose somebody important, but the world just goes on. And in the fast lane. And you're like. You just want to scream. You're like, my mother just died. Or, you know, my dad just died. Can't we just take a second? But no, Everything just. Even when famous people die and it's on Instagram for a second, then it's done.

[David Sedaris]

I remember coming back from Mom's funeral and seeing people breaking leaves and seeing people riding bikes.

[Amy Sedaris]

Yeah. Living their life.

[David Sedaris]

Didn't make any sense to me. It seemed the biggest insult to me that the world didn't stop for her death.

I ask everybody on the podcast, is there something that you've learned in grief or from the deaths you've experienced that would be helpful for others?

[Amy Sedaris]

You kind of have to assume everybody's grieving all the time. When you're grieving, you kind of learn, like, just assume everybody's grieving and treat them in that way. Like, not too many questions. Like, I remember after my sister Tiffany died, I was buying an exercise band, and I had cash, and. But it was like, what's your phone number? What's your email? Are you paying with credit card? And I just snapped. And I was like, oh, my God, I'm grieving. Like, enough of the questions. I'm just gonna pay cash, you know, here's seven bucks. Give me the band. But that's when I learned, like, oh, you just assume everybody is all the time.

[David Sedaris]

I just finished this tour, so I went to 45 cities or something, and this man was supposed to get me at the airport in Washington. And I'm waiting and waiting and waiting. And then 15 minutes after he's supposed to be there, I get a call. And I'm outside in a black Escalade. And I go out there, and I said, I don't know what cars look like. And he said, they wouldn't let me park. And I said, how was I supposed to know that? And he threw my bag in the back of the car. And then we get into the car, and it's just this awful feeling in the car. And then I said, can we start over again? I said, hello. Like that. Anyway, he went for it, which is good, because it turned out we had to spend six hours together. And in that six hours, I learned that, like, 10 days ago, his son had committed suicide. And I thought, can you imagine? Your son commits suicide? Where were you? You know what I mean? I need to be at the Four Seasons. I needed to be at the4seasons 10 minutes ago if I'm have lunch with my boyfriend.

[Amy Sedaris]

You're killing me. You're killing me.

[David Sedaris]

But that was a good reminder that you don't know. You have to give people a break.

[Amy Sedaris]

I always say to people, and it really helps, is like, again, if you see something from the corner of your eye or a sign, just pay more attention. Like, little signs that pop up that can be comforting. They're out there, and you'll see them or feel it, and you'll know that they're still with you. And it is like you and Colbert were talking about. It is kind of a gift, which is another thing that's hard to tell somebody.

[David Sedaris]

You do feel that?

[Amy Sedaris]

I do feel that. It's like it just gives. And then you know what to do for somebody else or to say to somebody else, or you Just the way you just see the world, it's different.

[David Sedaris]

When Stephen Colbert said that to me in like 2019 and then again on the podcast a year or so later, I did not. I just found it incomprehensible. It blew my mind. I'd never even considered that idea. And I've certainly now come to that. It's not that you wish this happened.

[Amy Sedaris]

But the empathy for other people to go through that was a pretty special thing to feel. I think I'm a big one at writing everybody and say, today's mom's anniversary or today. I do that a lot just to take a second because I write everything down on my calendar, so. Or if I have friends whose mom died on a certain day, I'm like thinking of you today.

[David Sedaris]

I think the only thing I learned is that it's not too late. Sometimes somebody dies and you don't send a letter or you don't say anything and then you're embarrassed and then you almost don't want to see them because you didn't do that. But it's never too late. Years could have passed and it's never too late.

David Sedaris, Amy Sedaris, thank you so much.

[Amy Sedaris]

Thank you so much.

[David Sedaris]

Thank you, Angie.

[Amy Sedaris]

Thank you.

[David Sedaris]

Next week on All There Is, we look at how grief has changed in the last hundred or so years in America from something that used to be experienced communally to something we now hide away and rarely speak of. My guest is Pulitzer Prize winning historian Doris Kearns Goodwin, who did something remarkable with her husband before he died. You did something which I wish I had done with my mom while she was alive, which is you went through the boxes of your husband's things while he was still alive. This was a project you did together. What an incredible thing to do.

[Doris Kearns Goodwin]

And it almost didn't happen for 40 years of our married life. I wanted to open those boxes. I knew they were a time capsule of the 60s, diaries and letters and memorabilia. He was a speechwriter and advisor.

[David Sedaris]

He was with Robert F. Kennedy.

[Doris Kearns Goodwin]

He was with Robert Kennedy when he was assassinated. He had become his best friend. Martin Luther King had died. He'd been close to him, but he didn't want opel because the 60s had ended so sadly. And then finally, finally when he turned 80, he said, all right, it's gonna happen. It's now or never. I was so happy, but I had no idea what it was gonna mean. I don't think I thought about the emotions of it. It was the last great adventure of our life. It changed him and it made him feel better about his whole life. And it changed me and I'm so glad it happened.

[David Sedaris]

That's next week on All There Is. And a reminder. The voicemail box is once again up and running. If there's something you learned in your grief that would help others, please call and leave a message. The number is 404-692-0452. You can leave a message up to three minutes long, but if you get cut off, you can always call back. We may use all or some of your message in a future podcast episode or video, or post it at our online grief community. Feel free to leave your name and number so we can contact you, but we wouldn't include your number if we used your voicemail again. The number to call is 404-692-0452. Join me next week for All There Is. Remember, you're not alone in your grief. All There Is is a production of CNN Audio. The show is produced by Grace Walker and Dan Bloom. Our senior producer is Hayley Thomas, Dan Dezulla is our technical director and Steve Lichti is our executive producer. Support from Nick Godsel, Ben Evans, Chuck Haddad, Charlie Moore, Kerry Rubin, Carrie Pritchard, Shimri Cheetry, Ronald Bettis, Alex Manasseri, Robert Mathers, John Dionora, Lainey Steinhart, Jamis Andrest, Nicole Pesaru and Lisa Namoro. Special thanks to Wendy Brundage.

[Anderson Cooper]

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