Isaiah Thomas: The Loneliness of Grief

Summary

Podcast Summary: "All There Is with Anderson Cooper"

Episode: Isaiah Thomas – The Loneliness of Grief

Date: May 14, 2026
Host: Anderson Cooper
Guest: Isaiah Thomas (NBA Star)

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Overview

In this moving episode, Anderson Cooper speaks with NBA star Isaiah Thomas about the crushing loneliness that can accompany grief, especially following the deaths of two of Thomas’s sisters, Chyna and Laquisha. The conversation delves into the isolating nature of loss, the difficulty and necessity of talking about grief, and how Thomas’s experiences shaped his approach to mental health, strength, vulnerability, and family. Cooper and Thomas trade personal stories, reflect on the cultural stigma around grief—particularly for men—and underscore the healing power of sharing, community, and embracing one’s emotions.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Loneliness of Grief and the Power of Conversation

• Anderson opens by reflecting on how “the loneliness of grief”—when not shared—is the most depressing aspect, much more so than the sadness itself. The act of sharing, he says, is deeply humanizing and connective.
  • Quote: “What's depressed me much of my life is not having these conversations except with myself in my head. The loneliness of that...that to me is what is depressing.” — Anderson Cooper [00:37]

Isaiah’s Relationship with His Sisters

• Isaiah describes Chyna as inseparable from him growing up, always cheering him on and by his side at games.

  • Quote: “Truly my biggest fan in life.” — Isaiah Thomas [02:23]

• A family video is played with Chyna pre-draft, expressing love and excitement for her brother.

  • Quote: “I love him. That's my big brother...Me and Isaiah are like this. Like dreams are turning reality, basically.” — Chyna Thomas [02:56]

Losing Chyna and Returning to Play

• Chyna died in a car accident the day before the NBA playoffs in 2017. Isaiah recounts the surreal pain of getting the news from his teammate Avery Bradley, and the subsequent numbness and disbelief.

• Despite his devastation, Isaiah played in the Eastern Conference semifinals the next day—scoring 33 points in 38 minutes—with Chyna’s name written on his shoes.

  • Quote: “The best year of my career and the worst year of my life. Like, at the same time.” — Isaiah Thomas [04:23]

• The conversation details how basketball was Isaiah’s temporary escape from trauma:

  • Quote: “Basketball has always been the space where it takes everything away for two, three hours …That's the only thing I knew.” — Isaiah Thomas [07:01]

• After games, reality would return with full force:

  • Quote: “Right when the game's over, I had no energy to speak to anybody. It was like the opposite of who I was.” — Isaiah Thomas [09:17]

The Emotional Weight on the Court

• The memorable moment when Avery Bradley comforted Isaiah during warm-ups—a rare display of male vulnerability in pro sports—was profound.
  • Quote: “Just having someone there at that moment was like the smallest thing. And it was everything.” — Isaiah Thomas [08:24]

The 53-Point Game on Chyna’s Birthday

• On what would have been Chyna’s 23rd birthday, Isaiah scored 53 points in a playoff win, feeling his sister’s presence with him.

  • Quote: “Every shot was going in ... I felt her. She was at that game. Me to score 53 points on her birthday—in a moment where the world was watching ... That was all God and all my sister. That was for her.” — Isaiah Thomas [13:19]

• Asked where that performance came from:

  • Quote: “It's my sister. It's her birthday today. Happy birthday. She would have been 23 today. Everything I do is for her … that's all her.” — Isaiah Thomas [14:03]

The Repetition of Grief

• Isaiah lost his older sister Laquisha a year and a half ago, reigniting the same intense feelings of loneliness and devastation.
• He shares anxieties about further loss and his reliance on family and faith to cope.
  • Quote: “I got one more sister left, and I pray to God nothing happens to her because I'm just not trying to do things on my own. And that's probably the hardest part, is just being lonely.” — Isaiah Thomas [11:52]

Talking about Grief—“Going Forward, Not Moving On”

• Both Anderson and Isaiah reflect on how discussing grief—rather than burying it—helps make room for healing.

  • Quote: “If you don't talk about it, if you don't express it, if you don't turn to it in some way...all that stuff catches up with you.” — Anderson Cooper [16:09]

• Isaiah realized he was depressed and found that counseling and talking to others made “things a little smoother.”

  • Quote: “When I was able to really start to open up and speak to people about these things that everybody goes through, man, I started to see the light at the end of the tunnel in terms of just learning how to live with it.” — Isaiah Thomas [16:50]

• Isaiah now attends grief counseling and encourages others (including his parents) to do the same, despite cultural stigmas.

  • Quote: “It helps to open up. I just always kept it in. Cause that's just what I always done. So I just tried something different.” — Isaiah Thomas [18:27]

• Anderson and Isaiah agree on the value of “going forward, not moving on”—carrying grief as part of you, not leaving it behind.

  • Quote: “That's exactly what grief is. Finding ways to go forward without moving on.” — Isaiah Thomas [23:11]

Teaching Children About Grief

• Isaiah openly discusses emotions and missing his sisters with his kids, correcting the narrative that crying is weakness.

  • Quote: “I try to explain to my kids like, you can be emotional. Adult men cry. That's strength. It's not soft crying. In life, you care that much, you're gonna cry and you're gonna be emotional.” — Isaiah Thomas [24:27]

• He hopes his children will be able to process grief healthily and not fall into silence.

The Role of Community and Vulnerability

• Isaiah repeatedly stresses that healing comes through sharing and community, emphasizing the need to "lean on others."

  • Quote: “Whether you can listen to somebody's story, whether you can have somebody listen to yours, is needed...that stranger can possibly help you out more than that person you've known.” — Isaiah Thomas [27:32]

• Anderson and Isaiah note how grief is often compounded by a lack of support or cultural permission to speak, especially for men and those in underserved communities (e.g., “prisons are full of grieving people”).

Signs, Memories, and Continuing Connection

• Isaiah feels signs from his sisters in everyday life—yellow butterflies for Chyna, moments of music for both.

  • Quote: “When I see a yellow butterfly, that's my younger sister. Because when she passed, for like four straight months, every day I would see a yellow butterfly and I just felt like that was her.” — Isaiah Thomas [20:43]

• He shares the powerful memory of singing gospel songs like “We Fall Down” with Chyna, using music as a bridge to the past.

  • Quote: “Sunday mornings, we would just have, like, a whole church concert in the living room ...she would be the singer. I'll be in the background.” — Isaiah Thomas [22:09], [28:49]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On playing through loss:
  “There's no way I'm here. Like, I'm not present. That's really how I feel.” — Isaiah Thomas [11:19]
• On masculine grief:
  “Crying...in life, you care that much, you're gonna cry and you're gonna be emotional. So not to hide those emotions.” — Isaiah Thomas [24:28]
• On family connection after loss:
  “My younger sister didn't even get to meet my daughter. And my daughter is my younger sister. Really everything about her.” — Isaiah Thomas [19:42]
• On relying on others:
  “You need others to accomplish things, to get through things, to not move on, but to go forward.” — Isaiah Thomas [25:53]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:01–01:57 – Anderson sets the stage; introduces Isaiah and background on Chyna.
• 02:23–03:07 – Isaiah and family describe Chyna, play audio clips.
• 04:23–05:44 – Isaiah recounts learning of Chyna’s death, the immediate aftermath.
• 07:00–09:11 – Coping by playing basketball, Avery Bradley’s support.
• 09:51–11:19 – Writing Chyna's name on his shoes, on “not being here.”
• 12:17–13:56 – Funeral, the 53-point game on Chyna’s birthday.
• 16:09–18:07 – Discussion on expressing grief, therapy, and mental health.
• 19:05–20:35 – Signs from loved ones, connection through children.
• 22:09–22:53 – Gospel songs and the power of musical memory.
• 23:11–24:49 – Going forward versus moving on, talking honestly with kids.
• 25:53–27:32 – The need for community and not being afraid to lean on others.
• 28:49–29:37 – “We Fall Down;” music, faith, and persistence.
• 29:40–30:28 – Closing gratitude, invitation to share stories.

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Themes & Takeaways

• Grief is profoundly isolating—but talking about it is the only way to lessen the load.
• Strength lies in vulnerability, not in burying pain.
• Legacy and memory live on through signs, stories, and the next generation.
• “Going forward” is possible even if we never move on.
• Everyone needs others—leaning on friends, family, or even strangers is not just helpful, but essential.
• Changing cultural narratives around grief and masculinity, especially for men and in underserved communities, can be life-changing.

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Listen to this episode or join the community at cnn.com/allthereis to share your own story.

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Transcript

[A]

Welcome to all there is. Wherever you are in your grief, you're not alone. I was talking with a friend of mine who doesn't listen to this podcast and he's experienced a number of losses in his life, but he really doesn't want to think much about them, which I certainly understand. He asked me, isn't it depressing to do all these interviews all the time? And I thought about it for a moment and then I told him the truth, which is it's not. It's sad. Often it's emotional. But these are the most real conversations that I have with people. It's one human being connecting with and learning from another about a fundamental experience that we all share. My friend didn't really want to hear more about it, but I was kind of on a roll so I kept going. But what is depressing to me, I said, what's depressed me much of my life is not having these conversations except with myself in my head. The loneliness of that, that to me is what is depressing. I really love the conversation that you're about to hear. It's with Isaiah Thomas. He's a two time NBA All Star and the fact that he's 5 foot 9 inches makes that even more impressive. But what so impressed me about him is his willingness to speak about loss and his vulnerability. Two of Isaiah's three sisters have died. His sister Laquesha died in 2024 and his youngest sister, China died in 2017 on the eve of the NBA playoffs. She was killed in a car crash in Washington State. She was about to turn 23. The day after China died, Isaiah played in game one of the Eastern Conference semifinals against the Chicago Bulls. He played with China's name written on his shoes and in 38 minutes he scored 33 points. A few weeks later, on what would have been China's 23rd birthday, Isaiah scored a career high 53 points in an overtime victory against the Washington Wizards. I spoke to Isaiah Thomas May 1, the day before what would have been China's 32nd birthday. Can you tell me about China?

[B]

What was she like? China was, man, we were connected like this. Like anytime I had to go to the gym, anytime I had basketball tournaments, even if she didn't want to, like she was the tag along. She was everywhere. I was always super positive and super energetic, outspoken, outgoing and just loving. Tomorrow's her birthday, actually. She would be

[A]

so she had been to like every game, everything.

[B]

Growing up, middle school, high school, college. Anytime I could look in the stands, she's right there with my dad. So like, truly my biggest fan in life.

[A]

There's a great video of Chyna and if it's okay, do you mind if we play?

[B]

Yes. How you feeling, sis? Good.

[C]

I'm good.

[B]

We at it's apartment, man, waiting for this draft to start. We got about 15 minutes. Know when Tina?

[D]

Nervous.

[E]

Nervous, too. Cause you. I've been walking around, you're just excited, excited.

[C]

Oh, I love him. That's my big brother. So, I mean, I don't know. Words can't really express on what I can say to him. Me and Isaiah are like this. Like dreams are turning reality, basically.

[E]

So it's just

[C]

showtime.

[A]

That was a party for the draft. So the whole family's gathered to. You were picked. You were picked the last pick. What a cliffhanger.

[B]

I remember my mom calling me around, like, the 56th pick, 57th pick. She's like, son, are you all right? And I'm like, I'm as good as I'm gonna be. Like, I don't know what's going on. She said a Bible scripture. She said, the first shall be last, and the last shall be first. Around, like, the 58th pick. My agent called me back, was like, sacramento Kings are gonna pick you with the last pick. And all my negative emotions went out the window. Cause at the end of the day, as a kid growing up, my dream was to hear my name called. Whether it was the first pick or the, it didn't really matter. I was blessed and I was super thankful. I'm drafted in 2011. I play for the Kings, Phoenix Suns. Then I get traded in 2015 to the Boston.

[A]

When you got to the Celtics, there was a team that was kind of rebuilding. Yes, but you really set the tone.

[B]

Yeah, I just tried to change the culture. They needed a player like me, and I needed an organization like them to give me the opportunity to showcase my skills. And we turned that whole season around. 2017.

[A]

What happened to China?

[B]

We're preparing to play the Chicago Bulls in the first round of the playoffs. A day before the playoffs start, my little sister gets in a single car crash. Fell asleep at the wheel really late at night, driving. I didn't know about it till the next morning. We just get up with practice. I'm going through my regular routine, and one of my close friends, Avery Bradley, on the Celtics, we're actually from the same neighborhood. And he knows China, he knows my family. So he and was like, it, come here. I got something to tell you. It's important. And when we went back in the locker room, he was like, bro, Your sister passed away. I'm like, what are you talking about? So I go to my phone and I see calls from my dad, my mom, my wife. So I call my dad back, and he just breaks it to me. And he couldn't really talk at the time either. I've only seen my dad cry, like, three or four times in my life. I've never seen my dad be that emotional. So I didn't know what to do. I couldn't go to him. He couldn't go to me. I couldn't go to anybody. It was unbelievable. The news I heard, like, I'm preparing to play the Chicago Bulls. We're the number one seed. The best year of my career and the worst year of my life. Like, at the same time, had you

[A]

had any experience with loss?

[B]

My auntie passed away. Like, older people in my family and my grandparents, great grandparents, but not like my sister and my youngest sister at that. Like, I would never think that would happen. She just was reaching out to me about coming out to the playoffs. She's like, you know, my birthday's coming up. It's my Jordan year, because she would have been 23. So all of those things are, like, going through my head. I remember just leaving my stuff in the locker room and getting in the car and just crying for, like, 30 minutes straight. My coach comes outside, security comes outside. Then, you know, people just trying to help, but, like, there was nothing you can possibly do. It was like the most numb moments I've ever had. I wanted to go be with my family, to try to help them out, but I remember talking to my dad that night, and he's like, you know what your sister will want you to do? She will want you to play. And you coming home isn't going to do anything right now. So many people were texting and reaching out to me. Kobe Bryant sent me a long text. Condolences, sorry to hear the news. But at the end of the text, he said, if you are going to play, there's no excuses, and you're going to be who you always been. Kobe Bryant is my favorite player ever. So to see him reach out to me and. And say, if you are going to play, you go out there and be who you are, because that's what your sister would want. There was no other way around it. That's what I was doing. So then the next day, I just showed up at the arena, like a normal day. Because anything I've ever been through in life, basketball has always been the space where it takes everything away for Two, three hours. I don't think about anything other than the game. And it puts me in a great space. That's the only thing I knew. So I went to arena prepared, like I usually do. My body was there, my mind wasn't. And it was the hardest thing I ever had to do. Like, I remember being in warm ups and just starting to cry because it was like, it just didn't seem real.

[A]

There's a video. Avery Bradley comes over and puts his arm around you because you're crying. It was just a beautiful moment. It was just like such a human thing that he did.

[B]

That was one of the moments where I just couldn't hold it in. I was just like, how did this happen? Just having someone there at that moment was like the smallest thing. And it was everything. He was the one that told me the day before, you know how hard that is. His mom had passed away a year before that, so he knew. He knew. He knew exactly the emotions I was going through.

[A]

But it wasn't like he was trying to fix it or stop was just.

[B]

It was just there when everybody else was scared to, you know, be around me. And it wasn't even their fault.

[A]

People don't know.

[B]

You don't know what to say. You don't know anything. For him to really be there for me at that time, that was everything. So I'm super thankful for him and all my teammates. So I played through that game. We ended up losing. Right when the game got over and I was leaving the arena, it just hit me again. Real life just hit me.

[A]

It doesn't go away, and it doesn't.

[B]

Every time I would go to practice, every time I would play in a game, I would be okay. And then right when the game's over, I had no energy to speak to anybody. It was like the opposite of who I was. Cause I was the life of the locker room. I was the energy on the team. It was killing me seeing my teammates walk on eggshells because they didn't know how to react. So I had to fake it. Like, I had to somehow put a smile on for my teammates because it was bigger than me at that point. Like, I was hurting my teammates. It was the hardest thing I ever had to navigate through while playing against the best players in the world and trying to win a championship.

[A]

When you played, you wrote Chyna's name on your shoe. You wrote RIP Lil Sis. And the date of her death.

[B]

The only reason why I was playing was for her. Like, the only reason. And it takes me back to Just the YMCA being at the community center. Anytime I'm lacing my shoes up and she right there. So that's the. The reason why I wrote those things on my shoes. She would always text me. She said, showtime. Her and my dad would always text me that before a game since I was in high school, and it was showtime. It was just a different time with her not being there.

[A]

You scored 33 points in 38 minutes in that game. You almost won. I mean, you brought the team back.

[B]

Yeah, I played pretty well, but everybody was numb. The whole organization was going through what I was going through.

[A]

A reporter asked you a question in the locker room. I just want to play what you said.

[B]

I'm sure Celtic fans would like to know just how you're doing.

[A]

How are you doing,

[B]

man? I'm just taking it day by day. I'm not. Some days are better than others, but I'm not here, man. It's never gonna be the same.

[A]

I'm not here. I so understand that. I felt that a lot in my life. Like, I'm not even here. Like, I'm Like, I'm half a person. When I heard that, I was like, I get that.

[B]

That was just being completely honest. It was like, there's no way I'm here. Like, I'm not present. That's really how I feel.

[A]

Do you feel like you're here now? Not here here, but you in general?

[B]

I feel like I'm getting better with things, but fast forward. My older sister Laquisha passed away a year and a half ago. Like, the same thing. Like, the same exact feeling. So, like, it took you right back to that? It took me right back. It took me right back. I got one more sister left, and I pray to God nothing happens to her because I'm just not trying to do things on my own. And that's probably the hardest part, is just being lonely.

[A]

We'll be right back with more of my conversation with Isaiah Thomas. You went back to Seattle to speak at your sister's funeral, and then you flew back to Boston. Four hours later, you're playing the second round of the playoffs.

[B]

I get in at, like, 8. I go home, change, and go straight to the arena. Game one, my tooth comes out, like, out of all times in my life. I've been hitting my mouth, I've been hitting my tooth. I've been hit, and it's never came out.

[A]

It was literally laying on the floor.

[B]

You picked it up, I pick it up, and I go take it to the trainer. We end up winning game one, I have a pretty good game in between game one and two. I have 13 hours of dental surgery. Game two is on my sister's birthday, May 2nd. Every shot I made, every shot was going in and the magnitude of the game. It was a close game. We went into overtime. There was one shot where a guy fouled me and I lost the ball and still threw it in. And it went in and I'm like. I look up like, this is insane. And I've had a 50 point game before in the NBA. I've had games where it's like, dang, those shots are going in.

[A]

I've seen videos of it. You're taking crazy shots.

[B]

Every shot it was just going in and I knew it. I'm like, that's her. I felt her. She was at that game. Me to score 53 points on her birthday. In a moment where the world was watching. I didn't hear my coach, I didn't hear my teammates.

[A]

Obviously the crowd is going crazy, crazy.

[B]

It was silent. I didn't hear the fans. I didn't hear nothing. There was no emotion. I had no emotion in that game. I wasn't there. I was in the gym by myself at the ymca community center growing up. And she's right there. That was all God and all my sister. That was for her.

[A]

You were asked about it after the game. Where is this coming from, man? Where is this coming from?

[B]

It's my sister. It's her birthday today. Happy birthday. She would have been 23 today. So everything I do is for her. And she's watching over me. So that's all her.

[A]

Do you remember that?

[B]

Yeah, I remember that. I remember every moment. Right when I walk out the arena, it slaps you in the face, all that cool stuff. Winning a playoff game, scoring a career high. That was one of the most amazing moments. But you don't understand what really matters until it really matters. That was one of the moments that basketball just didn't matter.

[A]

Your dad talked about how he didn't know how you played those games. I just want to play what he said.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

I don't know how he played. Cause I couldn't do anything. I watched some games and then I couldn't watch no more. It made it worse for me. Whatever basketball had to do, we made it a family thing to go and watch him, but also make it fun for the family. And now China was missing. It's different. Only thing you think is, where would she be? When you got kids, you just want your kids around. When you lose one, it feels like the world is upside down. I wasn't built for that. Sometimes people think you're strong

[B]

and you

[D]

become the weakest thing around. It just wasn't right.

[A]

I never cried until like 5 years ago. I buried all that stuff. I just moved forward. And all that stuff catches up with you. If you don't talk about it, if you don't express it, if you don't turn to it in some way.

[B]

And I understand that fully. Because when that happened, I didn't know what mental health was at that time. I didn't know what depression was. Where I'm from, especially males don't really speak about those things. And that's what I seen. So I thought that was normal. I was 100% depressed and I didn't even know it. And I just thought trying to figure it out on my own was going to help. But when I was able to really start to open up and speak to people about these things that everybody goes through, man, I started to see the light at the end of the tunnel in terms of just learning how to live with it. And I still have my days where I'm super emotional. Like the other day, my mom's birthday, her 60th birthday. And she just wished my older sister was here. And that just hurts because I'm usually the guy that can help and I can't help. And she has her emotions, I have mine. It just sucks. But knowing you can go through it with somebody else, whether it's a stranger or family, it helps. Like you said, you were moving forward so much, just trying to move past it. And I felt like I was doing that too. And when life started to settle me down and I started to slow my mind down, able to, like, reach out to other people who've been through these things, man, it helped in so many ways. Obviously it didn't bring them back, but it's made things a little smoother. When times are really tough, being able to speak about it and trying to help. My parents go to grief counseling.

[A]

Do they speak about it?

[B]

My dad speaks to me about it, but he's not speaking to anybody else about it yet. My mom does go to grief counseling. It's something that helps her. And I think it can help everybody. I try to go at least like once a month after. I just feel way better. Like, it just. It helps to open up. I just always kept it in. Cause that's just what I always done. So I just tried something different.

[A]

The first time you went to talk to somebody was that hard?

[B]

The hardest thing ever like talk to somebody you don't trust or don't know. But it just made me. Every time after, it just made me smile. It just made me. It made me feel different. I started making a routine of trying to speak to somebody once a month. Try to learn something off of social media that others are going through. If you're not able to speak about it to others, you're not going to find ways to live through it. Like, not even get through it, just to live through it.

[A]

Does it get better?

[B]

I think you learn to navigate through. Doesn't get bad. I want to talk to my sister every day. I want to argue with my older sister. Like, I want to. Like, I want to have a back and forth with her. I want to tell my younger sister to slow down. I want to be able to laugh with them. I always say to my mom, I wish you can get one phone call a year and just hear my sister's voice. Just to just ask them, is everything good? If they can tell me that, that would make things so much easier. My younger sister didn't even get to meet my daughter. And my daughter is my younger sister. Really everything about her.

[D]

Wow.

[B]

You see her, my daughter, everything. Everything. My dad says it all the time. Really? That's China. Cause it really is. Every way she acts is like identical. It's cool because I could see her in my daughter. That's something God did to keep her close to me.

[A]

It's incredible to see. I have two little boys, four and six. And I see my dad in their eyes. And all the stuff that happened to you as a little kid, that you bury your. It's an opportunity to kind of figure that out and be better for them. My little one has the shape of my mom's face. And it's crazy. Like, I, like, I see it. It's so.

[B]

That connection is insane, but it's real. And it helps me. Like, even just looking at my daughter's eyes, it's like, I know that smirk. I know that look. I know what you're getting into. Cause I seen it. I seen it in my little sister. So like with my older sister, when it's a nice day, I feel like that's her. When I see a yellow butterfly, that's my younger sister. Because when she passed, for like four straight months, every day I would see a yellow butterfly and I just felt like that was her. So those are like, little signs I feel like. But I haven't hit the stage yet where I feel like I'm speaking to somebody. I haven't had that connection yet, but I believe that will happen. I have a lot of faith in that. My mom had one, like, a sign where she said she felt like my older sister. Quizzes said she's okay. And, like, I could see my mom smiling more and, like, wanting to go out and do things more. And I want that for my dad. I want that for myself.

[A]

I don't feel like I get signs from my dad, but I remember what it was like to be the little boy that I was, like, laying on his stomach watching tv. Like, I remember that feeling, and I remember the love I had for my dad. And I feel that again.

[B]

Yeah. And I go back at times, too, with my sisters. Just all the moments we share. Like, there'd be certain songs that come on the radio. That's something me and my little sister would dance to or figure something out.

[A]

Is there a song in particular?

[B]

It's a gospel song by Donnie McClurkin called We Fall Down. And it's a song that, on Sunday mornings, we would just have, like, a whole church concert in the living room with just me and her. And she would be the singer. I'll be in the background. So, like, anytime gospel music comes up, I think of her. And then with my older sister, it's like she was my protector. So anytime I get into something, no matter if I'm right or wrong, she was. She's right. She's right in front of me. I could be so wrong, and, like, she'd make it seem like I was right. And that's what I miss the most about those little things, about them. I really thought I would have my sisters forever. And that's what hurts the most.

[A]

Your dad says you just gotta go forward. Not move on, but go forward. I think that's really. It's a really smart way of saying it. It's not moving on. It's not forgetting, but it's putting one step in front of the other, even if it's a tiny little step.

[B]

Yeah. I didn't even really understand how big that line was, because that's exactly what grief is. Finding ways to go forward without moving on.

[A]

Yeah. It's like not moving on is like carrying with, walking with.

[B]

Yes. Any door you go in, anything that you do, they're right there with you.

[A]

I used to think strength was going forward and moving on, but that's not strength. No, that's. That's running from, and.

[B]

And that's what I feel like. I've. I've done for a lot, you know,

[A]

I've Joined the club.

[B]

Yeah. And like you said that earlier too. And that's what grief is about, is like not forgetting, not moving on, but really figuring out how to go forward.

[A]

What do you say to your kids about your grief?

[B]

When my older sister died a year and a half ago, that's when I was able to like sit down and speak to them. Like, especially my older boys, they're 15 and 14 now, but just speaking to them, my emotions. So when I'm on the couch crying, they're not just like, oh, let's get away from daddy, give him his space. And I come over here, I understand why I'm crying. I miss my sisters and it's okay to cry. Never seen my dad cry when I was a kid. I just thought, you shouldn't cry. I try to explain to my kids like, you can be emotional. Adult men cry. That's strength. It's not soft crying. In life, you care that much, you're gonna cry and you're gonna be emotional. So not to hide those emotions. At some point in their life, when they hit some adversity or some type of grief, the last thing they're gonna do is hold it in because that's the worst thing to do.

[A]

My six year old, like, when I try to talk about emotions with him, like, he just will try to change the subject. I was the same way as a kid and I really don't want that for him.

[B]

And then my daughter's seven, she start crying with me, doesn't even know why he is. It's like the boys, they're at age now, I can really explain to them, like, yeah, you think your dad's all super tough and things, but like, it's also tough to cry too. I guess you can do that and you can explain and speak about your emotions in this family, you can. And I want them to know that when I go to my sister's funeral home and talk to her, both of them, it makes me feel that much more closer to them. I don't know. Grief sucks, but there's ways around it that can help you. And I really believe that. And as I start to meet more people that's open about talking about their story, it just, man, it helps. Like in life you just need others. You need others to accomplish things, to get through things, to not move on, but to go forward. Like, you need others. And coming on things like this is like, I can't wait to see the feedback, just to read comments or to, to hear what others are going through. Because everybody has that in Common. And so many people come from the environment I come from, from the inner city that have nobody to talk to and going through so much death, adversity, school, and have nobody to speak to.

[A]

Very close friend of mine who was incarcerated for 29 years, we talk about this all the time, that prisons are full of grieving people.

[B]

I got a friend that's serving for a crime I know he didn't do, but I speak to him every day just to let him cry out and speak about things he's not speaking about in there. So I understand that and I. And that's helped me in ways that he doesn't even know. Just being able to speak about things to people and just somebody here without having to answer and without having a comeback for what I'm saying is like, that's huge in everybody's life and everybody doesn't have those things.

[A]

Is there something you've learned about grief that would be helpful for others?

[B]

The biggest thing is leaning on others. I get so many messages on social media, like, man, you inspired me. Like that moment when your sister, when you went through that, I was going through this and just watching you on TV got me through. Like, I didn't understand the impact or the inspiration I had on people until after. No matter how amazing your life or how bad your life is, that's one thing we have in common, is losing someone. Everybody loses someone. Everybody goes through adversity. And there is people who want to speak about these things. And anytime I'm able to speak about my sister, it makes me feel so much better. It like, helps. Just because I happen to be on TV or play the game at the highest level, it still hurts. And I still need people and I still need others to be able to get me through. Because, like, growing up, you always feel like you can do things on your own. But like, as I've gotten older, especially dealing with these situations, like, man, you need people, you need. Whether you can listen to somebody's story, whether you can have somebody listen to yours is needed. In my life, I've never leaned on nobody other than my parents. But the ability to lean on others and finding the right people to be able to lean on has helped me in ways that I can't even explain. And it could be a stranger or somebody you've had a 30 year friendship with, that stranger can possibly help you out more than that person you've known. Don't shy away from that. If that opportunity ever presents itself,

[A]

it'd be okay if we played the song that you. Yeah, yeah, the China song, for sure.

[B]

It was called We Fall Down. We grew up in church, too. So she doing. And I'm in the background. I'm like this, Ah, I miss her. That's crazy. I'll be like, I'll be like the choir in the background.

[A]

It's lovely. It's great.

[B]

That's her.

[A]

And it's the same thing your dad said. I mean, go forward, not move on. We fall down, we get up, get back up again.

[B]

Now we're getting back up with others. That's the plan, to keep moving and keep going forward with, with others. That's the only way.

[A]

Isaiah, thank you so much. It's been really lovely to talk to you.

[B]

Thank you. This has helped.

[A]

And thank you for telling us about your family and your sisters.

[B]

I appreciate you.

[A]

If you have some thoughts about this conversation with Isaiah Thomas, we'd love to hear from you. You can leave a [e-mail] allthereis there's a short film about Isaiah Thomas and his family's experience with loss called Go Forward, part of a larger documentary that's currently in the works about his life and basketball career. Thursday, May 21, we won't have a new episode of our streaming show All There Is Live. Instead, we'll be bringing you another new episode of this podcast. It's a conversation I had with today's show co host Chanel Jones. Her husband, Uche, died last May from glioblastoma. I talk with her about her grief and also the recent loss of her grandmother, Josephine, who died on New Year's Eve at the age of 96.

[E]

What I also realized is I grieved Uche for so long and I'm sure somebody will know if this is a term, I don't know, but, like, I pre grieved too, so because, you know, it's coming. Even though I was in denial. And then I grieved Uche. And so I've been grieving for so long that I will acknowledge. I don't think I have truly grieved her because then it's too much. Like, you know, everyone's like, oh, you're so strong and you're there for your kids and, you know, all of the things. And grieving him has been so much. And so with her, I've had to, like, tuck it just a little bit. Like, I can feel it. But, like, if I allow myself to truly explore, you know, what she means to me, I might have to take

[A]

a personal date tomorrow that's coming up and all there is if there's something you've learned in your grief you think would be helpful for others, Leave us a voicemail at 404-827-1805. Thanks for listening.

[F]

Do you ever find yourself lying in bed with your thoughts racing and your brain just won't turn off? That's the kind of thing that Catherine Nicolay helps with on her podcast, Nothing Much Happens. Each episode is a cozy, calming bedtime story with nothing stressful, nothing dramatic, and nothing you need to keep track of. It's just soft narration, gentle repetition, and soothing sensory details specifically designed to help you drift off. People around the world use Nothing Much Happens to quiet their minds, rest their nervous systems, and finally get the sleep that they need. You can listen to Nothing Much Happens wherever you get your podcasts episodes every Monday and Thursday.