Podcast Summary: All There Is with Anderson Cooper

Episode: Yiyun Li: ‘The Wound That Won’t Heal’
Date: January 23, 2026
Host: Anderson Cooper
Guest: Yiyun Li, Novelist and Professor

Episode Overview

This deeply personal and moving episode explores the raw realities of grief, specifically through parental loss by suicide. Anderson Cooper sits down with acclaimed novelist Yiyun Li, whose most recent book, Things in Nature Merely Grow, recounts her journey after losing both sons, Vincent and James, to suicide. With candor and empathy, Li and Cooper discuss the nature of grief, radical acceptance, the inadequacy of language around mourning, and the day-to-day struggle of living with wounds that never fully heal.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Enduring Weight of Loss

• Anderson reflects on the loss of his brother Carter to suicide and the way trauma overshadows memory.
  • “It's incredible to me that it has been 38 years and still how he died, the horror of it, the violence, it overshadows everything about his life for me.” (00:23)
• Cooper recounts a story from a grieving mother (Chrissy K.) who describes slowly coming to a place where she can feel love for her son again, separate from the trauma of his death.
  • “This year I finally realized I don't need [trauma] to remember him. Because he was more than how he died.” – Chrissy K. (01:33)

Parental Grief & Outside Perceptions

• Li discusses the blame parents often face after losing a child to suicide:
  • “Most people, the first thing they would say is, what wrong did these parents do? What kind of monsters are they? ... Nobody asks, what have those parents done to help the children before they lost the children?” (04:24)
• She addresses the limitations of parenting and the discomfort others express in the face of profound loss.
  • “When people don't know what to say, they find the worst things to say or say nothing.” (05:31)
  • “There are friends who can just acknowledge there's nothing I can say or do for you. But can I just sit here with you in your pain?” (05:51)

Language: Grief, Abyss, and Radical Acceptance

• Li pushes back on traditional language around grief:
  • “I don't use the word grief the way people use it. Grief is becoming a shortcut for many things... I choose to be here. The alternative is you forget your [loved ones]. And I don't want to forget.” (06:04)
  • “Remembering is more important than processing.” (06:27)
• She introduces the idea of “the abyss” as the most accurate term for her state:
  • “I use ‘abyss’ as the precise word to describe how I feel about my life. I'm in an abyss. And we will always be in this abyss...” (19:03)

Parenting Children in Pain

• Li shares detailed, loving portraits of Vincent and James, highlighting their sensitivities and brilliance.
  • “Vincent was this fantastic boy with long hair, poetic, musical, talented, moody. Vincent lived life at a very high pitch.” (08:22)
  • James: “He was not a verbal child, but... was extremely eloquent with Vincent. When Vincent died, he sort of stopped talking.” (11:12)
  • James at 6: “Mommy, I'm still suffering from monophobia.” (11:42)
• Acceptance of their decisions:
  • “More important than loving is understanding and respecting my children, which includes... understanding and respecting their choices to end their lives... It's the pain... There's no way to stop the pain but to wipe your body out.” (12:36)
  • “When James died, I wanted to respect his decision... If we can understand them, it's more than little.” (13:41)

Radical Acceptance vs. ‘What-Ifs’ (15:57)

• Li derives “radical acceptance” from DBT (Dialectical Behavior Therapy), choosing to focus on facts rather than hypothetical thinking:
  • “If I feel pain or if I feel momentarily unsettled, I'm going to come back to the fact first. The fact is Vincent died and then James died and they both chose death... You don't argue with that fact.” (15:57)

Living Day-by-Day With Loss

• After each loss, daily activities resume slowly, and moments of laughter become surprising milestones.

  • “It took us a long time after Vincent's death to start laughing again. I remembered the precise moment my husband and I... both just broke into a laughter. And I just thought, oh, we regained that ability to laugh.” (20:32)
  • On suffering better:
    “You learn how to suffer better [the second time].” (21:13)

• Pain is not something to “get over” but something to live with, sometimes more or less acute.

  • “These pains come back, like in an acute form... I can sort of take stock and say, oh, this pain. And then it stops, but it never goes away.” (21:55)

The Lingering Power of Objects & Memory

• Anderson and Li discuss the persistent emotional charge of physical objects:
  • “Objects don't die. ... Not a single item has left our care. Everywhere I turn in the house, there are objects. Their meanings reside in the memories connected to them.” – Cooper (29:13)
  • Li echoes: “I have not known what to do as the objects. ... They are all I have of my children.” (30:27)
  • On visiting her sons’ rooms: “I always have to prepare myself... I know it's extremely painful. ... But I still want to see them.” (32:33)

Going On: Advice and Perspective

• On how to continue:
  • “There are only two options. One is not to go on. The other option is we go on living day by day... I don't think we will ever feel that we can heal the wound. But you go on living acknowledging this is the pain and this is the wound that won't heal.” (33:25)
• On adapting to the “new normal”:
  • “Our life is never going to be all right again, but we're doing all right.” (34:18)
  • “We do all right. Yes, I suppose we will never be all right again. And I'm fine with that too.” (34:26)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On respecting her children’s decisions:
  “But more important than loving is understanding and respecting my children, which includes... respecting their choices to end their lives.” – Yiyun Li (12:37)

• On grief and remembering:
  “Remembering is more important than processing.” – Yiyun Li (06:27)

• On radical acceptance:
  “You don’t argue with that fact. ... I live with this fact, but this fact cannot defeat me.” – Yiyun Li (15:57)

• On the permanence of loss:
  “We will always be in this abyss... What I want to do is to live in this abyss a little better so it doesn't feel abysmal.” – Yiyun Li (19:03)

• On going on living:
  “There are only two options. One is not to go on. The other option is we go on living day by day.” – Yiyun Li (33:25)

• On the legacy of objects:
  “Objects don't die. ... Their meanings reside in the memories connected to them. The memories limn the voids which cannot be filled by the objects.” – Anderson Cooper, quoting Li (29:13)

Important Timestamps

• 00:01-02:41 – Anderson’s introduction and story from Chrissy K.
• 04:24 – Li discusses the stigma and questions around parental suicide loss
• 06:04 – Li on why she rejects the term “grief”
• 08:22-12:18 – Portraits of Vincent and James’ personalities and struggles
• 12:36 – Radical acceptance of her children’s choices
• 19:03 – Li’s concept of the “abyss”
• 20:56 – Laughter returns after loss, suffering “better the second time”
• 29:13-32:24 – Handling objects and memories
• 33:25 – Advice for how to go on: “day by day”
• 34:18 – “We’re doing all right... we’ll never be all right again. And I’m fine with that.”

Tone & Reflection

• The episode is stark, sincere, and often philosophical, refusing platitudes or easy comfort in favor of radical honesty.
• Both Cooper and Li create a space where ambiguous and painful emotions are handled with respect and openness, offering solace in the acknowledgment that some wounds never fully heal, but life continues in new and different ways.

Conclusion

For anyone grappling with the aftermath of suicide loss—or profound grief of any kind—this conversation offers validation, wisdom, and the steadying sense that even when “all is not all right," it is still possible to keep living, loving, and remembering.