Clever Tips for Tackling Clutter and Keeping It From Taking Over Your Life

Summary

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Podcast Summary: "Clever Tips for Tackling Clutter and Keeping It From Taking Over Your Life"

Podcast: Am I Doing It Wrong? (HuffPost)
Hosts: Raj Punjabi-Johnson, Noah Michelson
Guest: Anita Yokota (Therapist turned Interior Designer)
Date: April 16, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the universal struggle with clutter—how it affects our homes, relationships, and mental health, and how to tackle it more thoughtfully and effectively. Hosts Raj and Noah are joined by Anita Yokota, a licensed marriage and family therapist turned interior designer, who brings a unique perspective by merging psychology, wellness, and practical design to help listeners turn their homes into sanctuaries rather than stress triggers.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Understanding Clutter: Beyond Just "Stuff"

• Clutter is both physical and emotional. While it manifests as objects piling up, clutter also imposes a cognitive and emotional load (05:13).

  "What clutter truly is... it’s not just the objects that visually stress us out, but also there’s an emotional and mental element because of the cognitive load that it puts on us, even subconsciously." – Anita Yokota (05:13)

• Individual tolerance levels vary.

  "Each and every one of us has a different tolerance or baseline of clutter. And that’s where the physical and the relationship tension can come in." – Anita Yokota (07:50)

2. The Psychology of Clutter: Impact on Mental Health and Relationships

• Clutter triggers stress responses by overwhelming the prefrontal cortex and activating the amygdala, raising cortisol and lowering serotonin/dopamine (06:48).
• Clutter can lead to more serious issues if it impairs daily functioning or seeps into essential life spaces (13:00).
• Communication in relationships is crucial; different clutter tolerances shouldn’t become power struggles but chances for understanding (09:24).

3. Letting Go: The Emotional Process

• Sentimental attachment creates ambivalence. Recognizing conflicting feelings is key to moving forward (14:47).
• The “Holding Box” method: Place items you’re uncertain about in a designated container for 24–48 hours. Sit with your feelings, then decide—similar to “sleeping on it” (17:04).

  "The box is a physical container, but also a mental container... that kind of marination soaks in, and then they make the decision of keep or toss." – Anita Yokota (17:04)

4. Tactical Decluttering Methods

• No perfect time or space—start where tension is highest.

  "It should be the room that you feel the most friction...not just physical friction, but it’s emotional friction." – Anita Yokota (27:20)

• The “Ski Slope” method: Clean room by room, in small, zigzagging triangles—focusing on a corner at a time and taking breaks between (20:50).
• Temptation Bundling: Pair a chore with a pleasurable activity (music, podcast, etc.) to make decluttering more enjoyable (23:49).

  “You Temptation bundle that with a task or chore... That’s my treat.” – Anita Yokota (24:30)

5. Hacks & Decision Aids for Decluttering

• The “Poop Test”—Would you keep it if it had poop on it? If not, it’s probably not truly valuable to you (30:12).
• The “Ex Test”—Would you contact a terrible ex to retrieve it? If not, it's not meaningful (33:23).
• Marie Kondo’s “Sparks Joy?” (33:52)
• Anita’s guideline: Always return to intention—why are you really keeping an item? (34:11)

6. Forming Sustainable Systems

• One in, one out: When you bring something in, donate or discard something else to keep balanced (39:05).
• Assign a “home” to every item for easier tidying and retrieval (40:39).
• Organize by function, not just by type—e.g., organize kitchen items by meal-prep need, not just category (43:05).

7. Maintaining Decluttered Spaces

• Quarterly check-ins: Every three months, reevaluate problem zones and act (41:15).
• Visual reminders: Like flipping hangers to highlight what you actually use (44:16).
• Intention before Acquisition: Before purchasing, ask, “What is my intention? Am I seeking fulfillment or just a dopamine hit?” (45:58).

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Habits:

  “It’s just little building little foundation bricks every day, little micro actions. It doesn’t mean that we have to start big, but it’s little actions that compound into a new habit.” – Anita Yokota (31:57)

• On the “Holding Box”:

  “It’s the messy middle. We want to get to A to Z like that. And as you know, life is gray. Life is rarely black and white.” – Anita Yokota (18:26)

• On Giving With Intention:

  “When I help clients...giving away clothes, I help them identify who they want it to go to. Now you have…motivation. So I think intention is really the key.” (36:19)

Fun/Relatable Moments

• “Are you doing clutter wrong?” “Oh yeah. I’m that Marie Kondo meme of, like, ‘I love mess.’” (02:38)
• Reflection on “poop test”:

  “I have not heard of that one. My kids will really enjoy that one, you know, when I tell them about that one.” – Anita Yokota (30:47)

• “We’re all just kindergarteners inside and we need incentive.” (24:44)

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Segment Timestamps

• What is Clutter, Really? (04:47–06:37)
• Impact on Mental Health and Relationships (06:39–09:24)
• Nature vs. Nurture—Why Are Some of Us Clutter-Obsessed? (08:56–11:25)
• Sentimental Attachment and the Holding Box Method (14:47–18:26)
• Decluttering Tactics – Ski Slope, Temptation Bundling, Hacks (20:50–24:44)
• Where to Start? Choosing Your Friction Point (27:10–29:56)
• Decision Methods – Poop Test, Ex Test, Joy Test, Intention (30:12–36:19)
• Sustaining Your Decluttered Space & Systems (39:05–44:16)
• Buying New Things: Questions to Ask Yourself (45:28–47:46)
• Host Takeaways (“Better in Five”) (50:35–51:22)

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The Five Big Takeaways ("Better in Five")

1. Everyone’s anxiety around clutter is different—start decluttering where you feel the most tension. (50:40)
2. If your clutter disrupts daily functioning, it may be a bigger problem. (50:49)
3. Ask about your intention for each item. (50:57)
4. Try the poop test or the ex test if you’re stuck on deciding what to keep. (51:05)
5. Clutter can seriously impact mental health and relationships—addressing it helps both. (51:15)

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Final Thoughts

Both hosts reflect on how Anita helped reveal the emotional layers of clutter that they hadn't considered—emphasizing intention, self-awareness, and the small, practical steps to healthier homes and minds.

“This is an emotional process, and I think that’s where I need to start… I need to really reckon with that.” – Raj (51:44)

“Assigning intention to things, or taking that time—the holding box—to really think: Does something mean something to us? Do we really need to keep it?” – Noah (51:47)

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Useful Strategies Highlighted

• Acknowledge your emotional attachments and ambivalence before letting go.
• Use physical and mental containers (“holding box”).
• Declutter in manageable sections with “ski slope” or time-boxed methods.
• Pair chores with treats for motivation (temptation bundling).
• Create sustainable systems (“one in, one out”; a home for everything).
• Ask intention-based questions before purchasing or keeping items.
• Regularly reevaluate and adapt to your life’s changing needs.

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This engaging episode offers both practical tips and deeper psychological insights—helpful for anyone ready to tackle clutter not just as a matter of objects but as part of building a more mindful, harmonious life.

Transcript

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[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Hi, I'm Raj Panjabi Johnson, head of Identity content at HuffPost.

[Noah Michaelson]

And I'm Noah Michaelson, head of Puffcoast Personal.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Welcome to Am I Doing it Wrong? The show that explores the all too human anxieties we have about trying to get our lives right.

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

Noah, I have a question for you. A personal question.

[Noah Michaelson]

Okay.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Are you doing clutter wrong?

[Noah Michaelson]

I don't think I am, because I'm a little bit obsessive about clutter. But I live with someone who I love dearly, who is not quite on the same page as I am about clutter.

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

Yeah.

[Noah Michaelson]

So maybe I'm too obsessive. Maybe there are ways I could be doing it better. Maybe there are tricks and tips that would make me less stressed out about it.

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

Okay.

[Noah Michaelson]

I'm open to the idea that I am not doing it right.

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

Okay.

[Anita Yokota]

I love.

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

That's a start.

[Noah Michaelson]

Are you doing it wrong?

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

Oh, yeah. I'm that Marie Kondo meme of, like, I love mess. Like, I feel very comfortable in clutter,

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

and it's definitely bothers my partner.

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

I am doing it so wrong. Like, one of the wrongest. So I need help.

[Noah Michaelson]

This is your episode.

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

Yes, it is.

[Noah Michaelson]

And luckily we have Anita Yokota. She's a licensed marriage and family therapist, but she turned into an interior designer, which is so cool. And she emphasizes the importance of incorporating wellness throughout the home. She's going to tell us what the hell we're doing wrong.

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

Anita.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Get our lives.

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

Get my life.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Anita, thank you so much for being

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

here with us today.

[Anita Yokota]

Thank you for having me. I'm so excited.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Can you start by telling us a

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

little bit about your villain origin story? Like how you brought, you know, ended up at the intersection of therapy and design?

[Anita Yokota]

Absolutely. And it's quite a story, and there's a huge arc, basically. I've been a licensed therapist, marriage and family therapist for over 20 years, and I've also been really creative and loved interior design. My dad's an architect. My mom was a real estate broker. So growing up, that was in my blood. And somewhere down the road, I decided seeing clients just in the office or in their homes was not fulfilling everything that I wanted to do for them. And unbeknownst to me, when I did visit my clients in homes, I ended up decluttering their entryway, their pantry, their bathroom counters and drawers. And I'm like, wait a minute. Is this, like, something I could put together? So after 20 years, I decided to take a big jump and develop my home therapy method. And that's the intersection of interior design and psychology and wellness. What I love about what I do is helping people realize their homes can be their therapy room in a way that's, you know, like, free for the most part, but also a tool that is constantly, you know, this is our safe space.

[Noah Michaelson]

I think that is so interesting because I don't think a lot of us actually conceptualize our homes in that way, but it makes so much sense. We spend so much time there. It's the place that we do want to feel safe. And if we're dealing with clutter or worse than clutter, that's hard to do. Will you just define for us what is clutter? Because I think that term gets tossed around a lot. Is it just stuff or is there more to it than that?

[Anita Yokota]

Well, for me in particular, again, visiting so many homes, and, you know, my home visits were from, you know, I live in la, so my catchment area was north of Malibu. All the way down to Compton. And so there were different demographics, different homes, different sizes. But at the end of the day, because we're all human, we all live in a space that's supposed to be our sanctuary. But a lot of times, not is our human behavior reaction was the same to clutter and mess and what clutter truly is. It's not just the objects that visually stress us out, but also there's an emotional and mental element because of the cognitive load that it puts on us, even subconsciously. Every day, I'm sure everybody has a corner or when they come in the house. There's places in our homes that just make us go, ugh, like, I just don't want to deal with it. And we ignore it. And then the same thing happens the next day.

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

Yeah, I'm so triggered right now because, like, especially in New York City apartments, when you're not a bazillionaire, it's like,

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

so such little space.

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

Like, where. And we're sentimentally attached things. Where do they go? But we'll get to that. I just want to know how you believe clutter affects our mental health, our

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

mental health, and our relationships.

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

I know clutter is, like, a big point of contention between my partner and I. I'm. I'm a messier person than he is. So tell me about how it affects us.

[Anita Yokota]

I love this question so much because as a therapist and interior designer, I deal with a lot of couples, a lot of partners, kids, siblings, all living in, you know, small spaces. I totally empathize with you. Living in New York City. I mean, small space living is a reality, right? One thing that I think all of us can keep in mind, no pun intended, is that when there is visual clutter, that cognitive load comes from our brain center. So our prefrontal cortex, that's the part of our brain that helps us function. Executive making, decisions, planning, organizing. So at the same time, when our baseline, our tolerance of clutter and visual things in a room gets overloaded, our amygdala, it triggers a stress response. And that's when our cortisol, our stress hormones, increase. Our dopamine and the serotonin, all those happy hormones that I like to call kind of decrease. And so we have to remember that all these things about clutter actually sends our brains messages that can either calm us and make our nervous system feel more free and calm, or it can drive us crazy and get us really anxious and even lead to depression. And when you mention your partner, something that's really interesting is that each and every One of us has a different tolerance or baseline of clutter. And that's where the physical and the relationship tension can come in. Because I've renovated so many bathrooms where there was one sink, two partners every morning glaring at each other, you know, elbowing each other for the sink and getting ready in the morning to finding ways to either add another sink or add vertical space. Like, there's so many other ways to reorganize your space to calm our nervous systems down and reduce that cluttered feeling.

[Noah Michaelson]

Anita, do you think that that is nurture or nature? I mean, because the same thing with me and my husband, Benji, he. I can't even sit down to watch TV at night after we've cooked if, like, the kitchen is a mess, if there is clutter, that really stresses me out. And for him, he doesn't really have that issue. And so I'm like, are you just hardwired that way? Is it because you grew up in a certain kind of household? What do you think the origin of our anxiety or non anxiety about clutter

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

is such a good question.

[Anita Yokota]

I think for every individual, there's definitely a little bit of both. But the triggering part is dependent on, I think, your upbringing. So, you know, a lot of us are either type A or more lackadaisical personalities. But for me, you know, I grew up from an immigrant family, and a lot of times my mom tried to keep things organized, but it was pretty cluttered and it was really stressful. So then, of course, when I grew up, I became a little, you know, I wanted to just do it my way to be more organized in different areas that she wasn't. So my trigger for clutter is, you know, more environmental because honestly, my tolerance for things being messy is a little bit higher because I. I don't know if it's the empathy in me, but when I was a therapist, I was just able to tolerate mess more, whether it's internally or externally. But because my environment was always a little bit more clut and messy, that triggered the need to organize clutter per se. So I think everybody has a different combination. But the most important part, and this is something we say in therapy, and I kind of parlay it into interior design. And being organized is just self awareness. So you already brought to the table a wonderful self awareness that this is who you are, you know your triggers, and then with your partner, it just becomes a communication matter where you guys can just communicate and maybe, like, he can meet you halfway and you can give him a role in how to decrease your anxiety. About clutter. And he feels helpful because he knows, oh, I'm helping my partner feel better about this instead of always just the contention being, you love clutter. I don't love clutter. And then it becomes like a power struggle.

[Noah Michaelson]

Yeah. Raj, I'm wondering. I mean, I've sort of. I'm in therapy right now, and I'm doing a little bit of exposure therapy, I guess, with Benji, where I'm trying to leave some dishes in the sink and not let it freak me out as much. Little by little, not too much, because I also don't want him to feel like he has to bend to my will either.

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

I'm on the other side of that. I have been in therapy talking about how my clutter and messiness affects my partner, and I think it's more serious than just, who cares? There's clothes on the floor or whatever it is. No. You know, and it's. The communication part is really important with any family member or any loved one, because you don't want to call them messy or like, you know, childish or like something that feels like it's attacking their personality.

[Anita Yokota]

Character.

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

Yes, their character. It's. It's a journey, isn't it?

[Noah Michaelson]

It is a journey, and it's so funny. Do you feel like you are more cognizant of it and you're changing harder?

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

Yes.

[Noah Michaelson]

Yeah.

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

It's millimeter by millimeter, but definitely. Cause you see how important it is to the other person.

[Noah Michaelson]

Right.

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

It's crazy how we don't have to face ourselves in the mirror until we live with someone that is like, oh,

[Noah Michaelson]

my God, that is so true. Exactly.

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

It's wild.

[Anita Yokota]

It's so true. Yes.

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

I want to talk a little bit about, you know, when clutter can become problematic.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

I talked a little bit about sentimental attachment.

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

That's an immigrant thing, too. I have trouble throwing stuff out or putting things away.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

But when can that become what's considered

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

more hoarding and something a little more clinical and oppressive?

[Anita Yokota]

Basically, if it's really starting to interfere with your daily functioning. So if, say, like, you have a desk area and non desk things are starting to crowd into your work area and you're noticing, okay, this is making me feel, you know, feel very stressed or whatever. And why is my bedroom stuff or living room stuff or whatever kind of creeping into my work area?

[Autotrader Mom]

So.

[Anita Yokota]

So it's where your impaired daily functioning starts to increase, where you can't make productive decisions because too much stuff is getting in the way. So that clutter is basically when it's starting to Inch into other parts of your life that isn't making you feel productive or helping you make clear decisions.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Okay, that makes sense.

[Noah Michaelson]

Yeah. And I think maybe 10 years ago, 15 years ago, that show Hoarders came on TV and a lot of us watched it and, you know, it became this sort of, like, spectacle. And I'm not sure that most of us really understood how damaging that was, how serious it was for those people. It was just like watching the circus, you know, and that's what reality TV did. But I think for some people, yeah, it's not just clutter. This is actually a mental health thing. And they need help with that.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Yeah.

[Anita Yokota]

We're all not perfect. Right. We're all messy. In all our lives, we have certain obsessive or, you know, hyper fixations. Right. That's the new word of, like, things that we obsess about at home or that we procrastinate about. The biggest thing that I help my clients right now is helping them decide what stays and what goes.

[Noah Michaelson]

Yeah.

[Anita Yokota]

And I've. I think I've found the secret sauce as far as from a psychological point of view. And that really has tipped the scale in helping people decide what they want to keep and what they're able to. To let go of. And before you decide that, there's something that happens emotionally because it's so sentimental. Right. Like I was just telling my daughter this morning, she just came back from Outdoor Ed. She said, did you ever go? And I said, yeah, when I went in fifth grade, I brought my sentimental. This. It's. It was a little polka dot pig, like a stuffed animal. It was a pig, but it had polka dot fabric. And it was just. It was something that was given to me when I was a baby. It was like, so sentimental. Fifth grade, went to outdoor Ed, and then I lost it. And even talking about it today, there's a part of my heart that goes, oh, I miss it so much. And so sentimental things, wow, do they impact us? But what I've learned with working with clients is that before we decide what we want to keep and what we want to let go, there's an ambivalence. Okay. There's a. There's a inner conflict inside of us that if we don't untangle that and just even, you know, it doesn't have to be like a 30 session therapy about it, but if we just acknowledge that, oh, I am struggling about it, then that doesn't become the impasse and we can then go, oh, okay. Now that I know I have mixed feelings about It I have more clarity about what I want to do with it. Because when we ignore the ambivalence. So say you're in therapy about another issue. Have you noticed that when you don't acknowledge that it is a problem for yourself, it's harder to solve it? But once you just admit, okay, I have this issue, then all of a sudden it's easy to just problem solve. So same with decluttering is we have this mental idea like, okay, I should know right away I'm going to keep or not keep. But when it comes to sentimental things, there's an ambivalence. There's this, like, time that we really need to let it, you know, kind of marinate. So I have a method called. It's called the holding box. And I have all my clients put all the things they're ambivalent about, mixed feelings about, and usually out of a closet. You know, there's like three to five things they really don't know what to do with. And I give them a time. So it's 24 to 48 hours. It's not a week, it's not a month, it's about two days. And they really just marinate about the feelings that it evokes, the memories. And when they come back to it, it's kind of been like a container. The box is a physical container, but also a mental container. And when they come back, that kind of marination kind of soaks in, and then they make the decision of keep or toss. And that's been a very helpful, like, in the mess process tool for them to overcome to get to that decision, if that was very long winded. But hopefully you get what I mean.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

No, it makes sense.

[Noah Michaelson]

I love that.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

I do like it too.

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

It kind of goes along with Noah's theory about, like, sleeping on something and just like giving yourself a minute to gain clarity.

[Noah Michaelson]

Always. I think if you have the time, take the time. But I like this idea of actually sort of pointedly thinking about it for that time and letting yourself, as you said, marinate in the emotions and acknowledging the ambivalence.

[Anita Yokota]

I think that's the part. It's the messy middle. We want to get to A to Z like that. And as you know, life is gray. Life is rarely black and white. And so when we have these emotional ties to objects, it's not black and white, but we're imposing the decision from a black and white process like toss or keep. But there's this emotional element we're not acknowledging. So once we are using like, say A holding box, we're able to acknowledge the ambivalence of keeping and, or say, you know, or tossing. Acknowledging that part helps our mind unlock the struggle. And then, and then that clarity can come.

[Noah Michaelson]

Anita, we want to get into some of the other nitty gritty aspects of decluttering. And so maybe we can start with this. Is there a better time in your mind to start decluttering? Is there a certain day? Should it be the weekend? Should we do it in the morning? Does that kind of thing matter?

[Anita Yokota]

There's, you know, morning people and then there's, you know, night owls. And so I think instead of imposing, again, rules upon ourselves, and I know structure is very important so in my home therapy method or just working with clients, and that's why our homes are wonderful structures for us to work through our, you know, stuff is that structure is good for us. But then when we're imposing too many design rules, like in the interior design worlds, there's trends for 20, 26, there's, you know, all these design rules really, you know, having that balance of. I personally don't think you need a strict time or day, but I do think that having some kind of time parameter, like getting it done, is helpful because otherwise it's just the ongoing project that takes on a life of its own.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

And then it makes you feel bad

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

about yourself when you procrastinate at the same time.

[Anita Yokota]

I'm a mom of three, and I understand that as you're cleaning, the kids are behind you making the same mess. Or if you have pets, it's the same thing. Or your husband or your partner or your wife. Yes, yes.

[Noah Michaelson]

Or yourself.

[Anita Yokota]

Or yourself. Exactly. So when it's the clean as you go, you know, every clean up, five minutes at the end of the night, that did not work for me because it wasn't enough time to truly get to the bottom of it. But then I would also go to the other extreme. Every three months, take out all my kids, shit, everything, do a huge purge, and then every three months, I had to do it again. I'm like, this is stupid. So one way that I teach my clients is having like half a day, but not having half a day be like full force every minute. You're, you know, you're not gonna conquer Rome in one day. But what I like to do is what I call the ski slope method. So any surface, there's, there's a corner to a corner, like a zigzag. So, you know, when you're learning how to ski, I, I, at least when I learned how to ski. I didn't go down the hill straight. And just like a daredevil, I was too much of a scaredy cat. But they teach you to just traverse, you know, from one end to the other, and before you know it, you're down the hill. So if you can imagine looking across the room right now and you see a left corner and a right corner, imagine just cleaning that room from the left corner to the right wall. And do you see how it creates a little triangle? Yeah, so I just clean up triangle by triangle by triangle. So you just zigzag the room. And whenever it creates that little triangle zone, I just cleaned up that little zone. And then I would take like a 15, 20, 30 minute, maybe an hour break, come back. So I knew I was going to finish that room that day, but I did it in zones a little bit. A little bit. And you just zigzag the room. And it could be a desk. You zigzag your desk because everything's like a rectangle, square surface, you know, and that way I still got the whole room done. But I did it in zones and chunks of time where I wasn't overwhelmed. So that became a method that my clients really enjoy.

[Noah Michaelson]

I love that. I don't know if you remember Raj. We had Patrick the cleaning, the laundry cleaning guy on. He did a great episode about cleaning, but his. His idea was similarly. He said, make yourself a 10 minute playlist with three of your favorite songs. I think he loved Madonna. So we put three Madonna songs on and just clean for those three songs and then stop, you know? And he was like, you can do it that way. Or, you know, I like to. When I'm cleaning. I put on an episode of House hunters, and that's 22 minutes. And I can get a lot done in 22 minutes. And I kind of watch it out of the corner of my eye, and it's not as serious and it's not as, like, gnarly if I'm doing something that's kind of enjoyable at the same time.

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

Totally agree.

[Noah Michaelson]

I think finding these little hacks, you know, I think that's smart.

[Anita Yokota]

I don't know if you guys have heard of Temptation Bundling.

[Noah Michaelson]

No.

[Anita Yokota]

Okay, so basically similar idea, but you take something that's your. Something that you really covet, that you're really obsessed about. So maybe there's a true crime podcast that you really love to listen to or a Netflix show or. Or a playlist that you keep special just for cleaning, but you Temptation bundle that with a task or chore that you're. You want to make a habit of and you combine the two. So whether it's your, you know, for me, a true crime podcast or whatever, I will just put it on and I make it very special. Right. That's my treat.

[Noah Michaelson]

Yes.

[Anita Yokota]

And then, and then I'm doing whatever habit, whether it's meal prep, whether it's organizing, whether it's exercising. A lot of people who work out do this. So that's pretty much what, you know, we're talking about.

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

We're all just kindergarteners inside and we need incentive.

[Noah Michaelson]

We do.

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

Yeah.

[Noah Michaelson]

I love that idea. I think that that's so smart.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Hi, this is Raj from HuffPost's Am I Doing It Wrong Podcast. Noah and I have discovered so much from hosting this podcast and we really believe that learning is a lifelong journey. That's why I'm so excited to share that. This episode is sponsored by Study.com Study.com offers over 220 online college courses that help students make progress toward finishing a college degree in a flexible and more affordable way. This includes general education courses such as English, math and history. Study.com is fully online and self paced and courses transfer to over 2000 colleges and universities. The best part, study.com is accessible from your phone or computer and it costs you just $95 a month. Study.com helps students of any age or any phase in life finish their college degree faster and save money by earning college credit on their own schedule. Go to study.com podcast to browse courses and get 10% off your first month when you sign up. That's study.com podcast.

[Autotrader Mom]

Are you really buying a car online on autotrader right now?

[Autotrader Child]

Really?

[Autotrader Mom]

At a playground?

[Autotrader Child]

Yeah, really. Look at these listings from dealers.

[Autotrader Mom]

Wow, your search can really get that specific.

[Autotrader Child]

Really?

[Autotrader Mom]

And you just put in your info and boom. Car's in your budget.

[Autotrader Child]

Mom needs a second.

[Autotrader Mom]

Honey, you can really have it delivered.

[Autotrader Child]

Really? Or I can pick it up at the dealership. One sec, sweetie. Mommy's buying a car.

[Anita Yokota]

Mommy, look.

[Autotrader Mom]

I think your kid is walking up the slide.

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

Kyle Again?

[Kat or Nat from Kat and Nat Unfiltered]

Really?

[Autotrader Child]

Autotrader Buy your car online. Really?

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[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

so I know

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

you said no hard rules, but I need to know about what room we should start in because my theory is I'll have to. I have to share. I. I think the bedroom for me is very important because we sleep there.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Like, I cannot.

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

I sleep much better when the bedroom is like a little. Yeah, yeah. But can you tell me what room we should really be starting in?

[Anita Yokota]

Absolutely. It should be the room that you feel the most friction.

[Noah Michaelson]

Yeah.

[Autotrader Child]

Okay.

[Anita Yokota]

And it's not just physical friction, but it's emotional friction. I loved how you began the podcast talking about how relationships that, you know, clutter impacts relationships. That's why I do what I do. Because at the end of the day, I love helping people with relationships. And in our homes, we want to feel like we're thriving. If we're even if we're feeling living alone in a 800 square foot Brooklyn studio, we have a relationship with ourself. And so how I help people, you know, develop their sanity in a room is which room do you want to thrive in the most? Which room has given you the most friction? And it might not be a room. It might be the entryway, you know, or it might be the hallway, you know, in between rooms, but that's where you want to start with. So for you, it sounds like the bedroom is your sanctuary and that's where you put your priorities in. I know for other people it might be work from home. So many of us still work from home and it's still at the kitchen table or someplace that just does not feel. It doesn't give them clarity. To a young mom with kids who are just constantly taking up all the space and there's no adult living space anymore, you know, so it really depends on where you are in your life stage, who you're living with. But most of all, what living space will help you thrive the best? You know, what are your personal goals that you really want to thrive in and your relationships flourish in?

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Okay, now that you said that, it's

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

not the bedroom for me.

[Noah Michaelson]

What is it?

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

It's the bathroom.

[Noah Michaelson]

Oh.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Because we have one bathroom and it's small and that's the room you come to life in every morning.

[Noah Michaelson]

So true.

[Anita Yokota]

Yeah.

[Noah Michaelson]

And it gets gross.

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

It gets gross.

[Noah Michaelson]

Yeah.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

And it's like the walls are right here. What is it for you?

[Noah Michaelson]

I think for me it's the living room kitchen. Our kitchen and living room are sort of the same, and that's where we spend the most time. And so that's where if there's clutter I'm seeing it the most.

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

Okay.

[Noah Michaelson]

And that's where we unwind. We watch TV together. And so I can't sort of unclench if everything is a mess in there. My office. I can kind of shut the door. The bathroom. I agree about the bathroom, but, like, it's just sort of out of mind.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Yes.

[Noah Michaelson]

But if I'm in the living room, I have to declutter it.

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

Oh, my God.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

I love your measure for that, because it's really smart. Yeah.

[Noah Michaelson]

There is no hard or fast rule.

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

No.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

That makes sense.

[Noah Michaelson]

I want to get your thoughts on some of the questions I think, that people have devised, Anita, to decide if you should keep something or get rid of something. I want to start with this one. Raj and I were laughing about it. It's the poop question. I think this.

[Anita Yokota]

I've never heard of that. Tell me more.

[Noah Michaelson]

I guess it kind of went viral recently. But if you have a whole bunch of stuff and you can't decide if you should get rid of it, you haven't put it in the holding box that you have. You're just going through your closet. You're supposed to ask yourself, if this had poop on it, oh, my gosh, would I still want to take the time to clean it and keep it? And they're like that really very quickly. You know, most people are like, if that had poop on it, I would just get rid of it. But there are certain things that you would. You'd be like, no, I want, like,

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

animal poop or human poop.

[Noah Michaelson]

You get to pick, Raj. You get to pick. But you haven't heard of that one, Anita.

[Anita Yokota]

I have not heard of that one. My kids will really enjoy that one, you know, when I tell them about that one.

[Noah Michaelson]

But you can understand sort of the mechanism behind it.

[Anita Yokota]

Yes, yes. You know, again, our brains are wired to scan for threat. Okay. And in this example, poop is the threat. How we decide on things is fight or flight, stress response. And when it comes to organizing, have you noticed we all have this pang of anxiety, like, whenever there's clutter or when it's time to clean up. Actually, even back in the school days, Right. It's like, time to clean up. We all just went, you know, so there's this just mental connection that cleaning up is a chore. It's such a drag, and it's a threat. Right. It's a mental threat for us. So whether it's poop or whether it's thinking about it from a sentimental point of view, I think it's really just an evaluation. But if we can keep it less personal and see it as a, as a transactional tool for our well being, I think that will change our perspective because at the end of the day, everything's just a habit. I can hear your listeners going, you know, habits, but truly, truly, it's just little building little foundation bricks every day, little micro actions. Okay. It doesn't mean that we have to start big, but it's little actions that compound into a new habit. So if thinking about that poof on your items will help you get over that, great. But I think another helpful way is just think, okay, so what's the threat here? Why is organizing my entryway such a threat for me? Is it truly a threat like kind of giving yourself a reality check about the mental blocks you have at home?

[Noah Michaelson]

Yeah. Another one that I heard of too is the X test. So I think this is more, this is less about like getting yourself to declutter and it's more when you're in the heart of it and you've got a closet full of clothes and you know you're not wearing all of them and you could definitely donate some, but you're having a hard time. I have, I have several pairs of jeans and I tell myself, those are my painting jeans. So if anyone ever asked me to help them paint their apartment, I could wear those jeans. I'm never going to help anyone paint their apartment.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

But we all do this. Yes.

[Noah Michaelson]

So they were saying, you can also ask yourself, not if it had poop on it, but if I had, if my ex boyfriend had those jeans, would I go through the work to contact him to get them back?

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Oh, that's a really good one.

[Noah Michaelson]

Like, how important is that item to me really? And would it be worth the trouble of getting in touch with an ex? We hated to get them back.

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

I mean, that's a better one for me because most of my exes are good and terrible. So it would just be like, nope, gotta let it go.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Yeah, I love, I just kind of

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

love these, like, mind tricks.

[Noah Michaelson]

But it's the same idea too. Like the Marie Kondo one that was very famous where it was like, does it spark Joy.

[Anita Yokota]

Joy.

[Noah Michaelson]

So finding a way to sort of prioritize certain things. If you just feel stuck and you're like, I don't know how to decide whether or not to keep that turtleneck. Do you have any other ones, Anita, that you like?

[Anita Yokota]

You know, for me it's just, it comes down to intention. And so the reflective question I ask my clients and myself every day is, well, what is my intention to keep this object or this type of clothing? I have a sweatshirt. In high school, I'm too short to be on the crew, you know, rowing club team, but I was a coxswain. And I have my high school sweatshirt of the rowing team that I was on.

[Noah Michaelson]

I love that.

[Anita Yokota]

And it is ratty and it's tad like. It is old and gross. But do you know how the serotonin of, like, I was. I was too short to row, but I was a coxswain on my rowing, you know, high school rowing team. It just made me so proud and happy, and it gave me such confidence at a time when, you know, you're 16 and you're feeling so self conscious about yourself. So that was worth keeping, right? Yeah, that was. My intention is like, yeah, yeah. I'm like, every time in the closet, I'm like, oh, they gave me a serotonin boost. Like, oh, to be young again, you know. But there's other things. I had a client who had a red dress. She bought it for some event. It was $500. She just could not, you know, give it away, but she wasn't wearing it. And so we kind of talked about it, and she and her partner, her husband, they were going through some, you know, a rough patch, and they were in couples therapy, and they decided, okay, once a week, we're gonna make time for each other. And it became her date night dress. And that was such a great, like, flip the script. Her intention with that dress wasn't, I'm gonna wear it as a date night because I don't, you know, I don't usually wear it. Her intention was this dress. When I put it on, that is my commitment to my husband. We are committed to resolving our issues. And part of my ritual and reflecting my commitment is using this dress on Fridays or Saturdays. And that became part of her healing.

[Noah Michaelson]

I love that.

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

That's beautiful.

[Anita Yokota]

To me, it's like, all these other things are great, and it's a good momentum thing, but at the end of the. I think reflecting our intention for that object, because a lot of times, if we do give it away, I don't want it to just be in a bag and put it on the sidewalk for goodwill to come and pick it up. That feels very hollow. But when I help clients and when I work with my own kids, even of giving away clothes, I help them identify who they want it to go to. Now you have. There's no dread about giving away something. It was motivating So I think intention is really the key.

[Noah Michaelson]

There's a. There's a place in New York called Housing Works and all of the donations, all the money goes to help people with HIV and AIDS and so same thing. I feel really good about giving to that place. I get excited about it. And I love the idea of intention too, because sometimes I have zero intention. I was thinking when you said about the red dress, that was $500. I have some clothing that I've actually never worn and it was expensive and I got it and it just was like, you know what? This isn't me. And I don't get rid of it because I'm like, I spent so much money on it, but it's. I'm never going to wear it. It's just sitting in my closet. I have no intention. It would be much better at Housing Works where they're going to get some money for it and someone else can, you know, can wear it and they'll love it. So sometimes even realizing you have no intention, I feel like is probably a good thing.

[Anita Yokota]

And having that intention for someone else isn't that amazing. That's an amazing feeling.

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

I've been on the other side of that and I. I am thinking about that. It's beautiful. My best friend, like, she has better

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

style that, like a better sense of

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

style for herself and it's so admirable. Like she chooses really nice things and

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

she's given me things and being like,

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

this doesn't really work for me. And it looks so good on me. And she, like, I love it. I think ask your friends if they would like, think of a friend that it might look nice on.

[Noah Michaelson]

I love when people have those parties. I've never been to one.

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

Yeah, the clothing swap.

[Noah Michaelson]

Yeah. Where everyone comes and they've decl. Cluttered and they bring things that they don't want and everyone goes home with a new wardrobe. Like, that's super cool too. Or you can do it with books. You can do it with so many different things.

[Anita Yokota]

So many things. Like how many mugs like dishware, you know, and what's that saying, you know, one person's trash is another person's treasure.

[Noah Michaelson]

It's true.

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

It's really true. Speaking of, I'm trying to think about, like when we do declutter finally a little bit, like how do we remain decluttered?

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Cuz same thing that you were talking about.

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

Like I have to reorganize my entire closet every three months. I don't know how things get that crazy. But what I've been trying to do is like when I acquire something new, whether it's from housing works or from, you know, somewhere else, I try to donate one thing out of my closet.

[Noah Michaelson]

One thing in, one thing. Yes, I love that.

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

What do you think about that? Is that like some kind of harm reduction? Because I'm trying to.

[Anita Yokota]

No, I think that's great because we only have so much space and to have a organizational system or zones for your. There's a home for everything. Right, We've heard that. And that's one of my favorite go to's is make it a home. Okay, you want to keep this. I tell my kids, you want to keep this and find a home for it. And whether it's adding a hook to the wall so that becomes a new for her jacket, or we go and get another basket or bin and make that her special basket for her crafts and toys, you know, whatever it is having an ongoing, sustainable system. And that's where again, the design rules and the organizational rules kind of have to bend. Because we all live very different lives and we're all in different seasons of life, you know, so for you to have a few structural rules, like, okay, one in, one out, that's amazing. And then within that structure of being fluid, it's like I said, life is messy, life is gray. And so we have to have structure for sure. Because as human beings, we need boundaries and structure, but we also need to learn that it's fluid, it doesn't have to be rigid.

[Autotrader Mom]

Yeah.

[Noah Michaelson]

Do you have other ideas in terms of like, the systems? Because I'm thinking we've talked a lot about decluttering, getting rid of stuff, but like you said, I like the idea of everything having a home. That's super interesting. What else do you think, though, about the stuff that we actually have, the stuff that we want to keep, but it just tends to keep getting everywhere. How do we keep that from being clogged?

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

And I have to add to that question. The hook thing is really funny. It's making me laugh because our bedroom is so small that, like, we put a lot of hooks up and the walls are literally like moving coming in.

[Noah Michaelson]

Yeah. Because every. Yeah, right.

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

So please tell me about these organizational systems.

[Anita Yokota]

I'm going to flip the script for you. I love hooks with stuff on it because it makes your home look so homey and lived in. I mean, yes, sometimes if it's overfilling, if there's like 50 things on one hook that can be very, like, stressful to look at, but, you know, as interior Designers, we love just hooking a pretty bag, you know, with the hook. Like, it can be very aesthetic y. So. And it's cozy. Like, I, I want to create homes that feel lived in. I don't want magazine worthy homes where you feel like you can't even like move anything and you get in trouble, you know, so that's always been more my style. Anyways. I think what you're saying is, how can we continue to make this sustainable? Yeah, is it is good to have some kind of calendar or timeline? You know, for me, it's every quarter, you know, once a quarter, taking an evaluation, looking at your pain points. You know, there's always little areas that. And then prioritizing where, where do I want to thrive in, you know, and where's my friction point that gives me the most pain and angst and prioritizing it from there or, you know, a lot of times, where am I fighting with my partner the most? That might be the space that we need to tackle first. So I think every three months is realistic and sustain to take an evaluation. And then I like to categorize things more by function than by the category itself. So in the kitchen, I have go to recipes, which I'm sure you guys too have. And so whether it's a curry, whether it's a Chinese dish, I have all my spices and things in trays categorized by recipes instead of like all the sugar spices, all the salty spices.

[Noah Michaelson]

That's really smart.

[Anita Yokota]

And I've actually encouraged my kids because now they can't complain. I have like the spaghetti tray and it has the sauce, the pasta. I even put the ladle. Like, I have everything in a tray. So if I'm busy, I tell my oldest, whoever's in charge of making dinner, okay, it's pasta night. You have your tray, go ahead. And so that's how I categorize things is more by function.

[Noah Michaelson]

I love that idea.

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

Yeah, me too.

[Noah Michaelson]

And it also, I think, comes back to what you said earlier about how everyone's going to be different. We all have different priorities, different needs, different anxieties. And so you organize your life the way that's going to feel the best. But I think that that's. That is really smart. Another thing about the three month rule I was reading about, and I think I've heard this before, one really practical thing you can do with your wardrobe, if you feel like you have a lot of stuff you're not wearing, and you've probably heard this, Anita, you put all of your shirts in the closet on the hanger the same direction. And then when you wear a shirt or a pair of pants, when you're putting it back, the next time you flip the hanger so it's going the other way. And after three months, you can see everything that you've worn, because they'll all be going the other way. And if you haven't worn it in three months, then you get rid of it. And I was like, that's pretty smart.

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

Yeah.

[Noah Michaelson]

And it's so visual. And, you know, immediately the things that you just haven't touched in three whole

[Anita Yokota]

months, you know, we just need very tactile and visual prompts, and if that helps. And that's amazing. You know, I think years and years ago, Oprah said, you know, if within six months, if you don't use something, then it's time to consider tossing it. And that just stuck with me forever and ever.

[Noah Michaelson]

Yeah.

[Anita Yokota]

You know, everybody has a different priority. Right. So for me, it's prioritizing, helping my girls know how to organize so they can feel empowered. And so what is it at home? Is it helping them learn organization in their rooms, in their bathroom counters, in the kitchen? You know, that that's my motivation as a mom. But for you, Noah, it's like, okay, my motivation is I want to have a thriving relationship with my husband. So what's my priority in the organization? You know, system at home that will help help our relationship thrive. I can be different, but at the end of the day, I think our goal is the same, which is how do we declutter to feel more harmonious and calm at home?

[Noah Michaelson]

I guess I would think then Anita, too, there is something here in terms of psychology or emotional regulation, in terms of when we go to buy something, there are probably questions we should be asking ourselves about before we buy something so that we're not adding to the clutter. And I've started to think about that more, too, lately, when I'm like, do I really need this new pair of

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

shoes in this economy, girl?

[Noah Michaelson]

And that as well, too. But talk to us a little bit about that. Even before we bring something home. What are some things we should be thinking about or asking ourselves?

[Anita Yokota]

I think that's an amazing question because we're getting to the root of it before we bring it home. Right. Like to really evaluate and take that time to pause again, to me, the best question is, what is my intention? What's my purpose of buying this? Is it truly because I need an extra T shirt, or is it truly that I really need, you know, whatever it is or am I just feeling anxious about something else and I just need a dopamine hit right now.

[Noah Michaelson]

Right.

[Anita Yokota]

You know, we gotta be. We gotta, gotta be kinda honest here, guys. Right. Like, when we shop, there's a lot of rationalization going on. Right. But to have that question of, like, what's my intention? Is this really, truly going to help me thrive at home? Is it gonna really answer or solve a problem I truly, truly have? Or is it just kind of like the dopamine I hit? I need right now to feel better about the anxious problem I'm, you know, either trying to avoid or trying to solve. A lot of times it's that shopping ritual rather than really needing something to bring bring home.

[Noah Michaelson]

That's so.

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

Yeah, I think it comes down to the self awareness. That's really what I'm hearing.

[Noah Michaelson]

Yeah.

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

And I think that's like. Yeah, I think that's really important. And I've been thinking a lot more about that.

[Noah Michaelson]

And one of the things I've been doing lately too, is I buy myself flowers every week. And those.

[Anita Yokota]

Oh, I love that.

[Noah Michaelson]

And they're beautiful, but they're also ephemeral and they don't last that long. And so they aren't. They're not gonna clutter. They're gone after six or seven days.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

And they do that thing.

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

They do that with the dopamine hit.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

I know.

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

I get the beauty Trader Joe's roses for me.

[Noah Michaelson]

Absolutely. You know, so there are other ways that we could do it.

[Anita Yokota]

Yeah. And that's where the rules don't have to apply because we're spending money on it. But then isn't that worth the 5.99, you know, to get that beautiful serotonin up in our system at home? So there's again, just really checks and balance system of organizing and decluttering. That's, you know, there's an emotional layer that I love encouraging people to reflect on again. We don't need to go deep into therapy about it, but just taking more moments of pause and finding that intention. Yeah.

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

Just being a little less reactive is my. Yeah, it's gonna be like the name of my memoir. Yeah. It's all.

[Anita Yokota]

Yes, you hit the nail on the head.

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

And then she paused. Or she didn't pause, which is mine.

[Noah Michaelson]

Anita, I feel like we could talk to you about clutter.

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

I know.

[Noah Michaelson]

For weeks. This is such a pleasure. Thank you for coming and joining us.

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

Yeah. You've definitely motivated me to go home and.

[Anita Yokota]

Oh, I'm so glad. I'm so happy to hear that. That Makes my dopamine level hit really high. Oh, it was so fun, you guys. I would love to do this again.

[Noah Michaelson]

Amazing. Thank you.

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

Thank you.

[Autotrader Mom]

Are you really buying a car online on Autotrader right now?

[Autotrader Child]

Really?

[Autotrader Mom]

At a playground?

[Autotrader Child]

Yeah, really? Look at these listings from dealers.

[Autotrader Mom]

Wow, your search can really get that specific.

[Autotrader Child]

Really?

[Autotrader Mom]

And you just put in your info and boom, car's in your budget.

[Autotrader Child]

Mom needs a second.

[Autotrader Mom]

Honey, you can really have it delivered.

[Autotrader Child]

Really? Or I can pick it up at the dealership. One sec, sweetie. Mommy's buying a car.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Car.

[Autotrader Mom]

I think your kid is walking up the slide, Kyle.

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

Again?

[Kat or Nat from Kat and Nat Unfiltered]

Really?

[Autotrader Child]

Autotrader, Buy your car online. Really?

[Finn AI Narrator]

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[Setlist FM Narrator]

Every music fan has that one show that they can't stop talking about. Unmarkey Memories from Setlist fm, your favorite artists tell us about the concerts that blew their minds as fans and how those moments helped shape who they are on stage today.

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

From Josh Groban, Lo and behold, the LA Philharmonic. And Beethoven's at the podium to all time low.

[Finn AI Narrator]

Oh, this is what it's like to be in the Foo Fighters.

[Anita Yokota]

Sounds awesome.

[Setlist FM Narrator]

This is marquee memories. Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts.

[Noah Michaelson]

Okay, it's time for better in five. These are our top five takeaways from today's episode.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Number one, everyone's level of anxiety around clutter is different. So identifying where you feel the most tension is the first step to do decluttering.

[Noah Michaelson]

Number two, asking yourself if your clutter is getting in the way of your daily functioning can tell you if you might have a bigger problem to face.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Number three, when it comes to deciding if you should keep or throw something away, ask yourself what your intention for that item is.

[Noah Michaelson]

Number four, there are other things you can ask yourself too, like try doing the poop test or the X test, and that can tell you if you really need to keep an eye on.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

And number five, clutter can have a serious impact on Your mental health and our relationships. So tackling it can improve both.

[Noah Michaelson]

Okay, Raj, have you been doing clutter wrong?

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Of course.

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

Of course I have. I mean, it's just what I suspected. But I will say I think she revealed a lot of emotional tactics I

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

can use to improve my situation. I was thinking of it as very

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

logistical and very, like, black and white and, like, I was raised like this, et cetera, et cetera. But no, this is. This is an emotional process, and I

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

think that's where I need to start.

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

I need to really reckon with that.

[Noah Michaelson]

Yeah, I love the psychology of it. And I think when we went into this episode and in general, when I think about clutter, I think about cleaning, like you said, I think of it just as this very practical thing. We have to do it. It's annoying. It maybe is anxiety inducing, but not because of the psychological reasons that we talked about. And so this idea of, like, assigning intention to things or taking that time, the holding box, to really think about why, is something mean something to us? Do we really need to keep it right? I love that part of it.

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

Me too.

[Noah Michaelson]

She, like, pulled back a curtain I didn't even know was there.

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

Yeah.

[Noah Michaelson]

And there's this whole other room full of stuff to consider.

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

Yeah. It's very freeing.

[Noah Michaelson]

It is. Anyway, until next time, as long as there are things to get wrong, we're gonna be right here to help you do them better.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Love you guys. Am I Doing it Wrong? Is a co production between HuffPost and Acast.

[Noah Michaelson]

Our producers are Eve Bishop, Carmen Borca Carrillo, and Malia Agudelo.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Our executive producers are Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rutter.

[Noah Michaelson]

Special thanks to HuffPost's head of audience,

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

Abby Williams, Head of video Will Took,

[Noah Michaelson]

as well as Kate Palmer, Marta Rodriguez, and Terry d'. Angelo.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

And we're your hosts, Raj, Panjabi Johnson and Noah Michaelson.

[Autotrader Mom]

Are you really buying a car online on Autotrader right now?

[Autotrader Child]

Really?

[Autotrader Mom]

At a playground?

[Autotrader Child]

Yeah. Really? Look at these listings from dealers.

[Autotrader Mom]

Wow, your search can really get that specific.

[Autotrader Child]

Really?

[Autotrader Mom]

And you just put in your info and boom, Cars in your budget.

[Autotrader Child]

Mom needs a second.

[Autotrader Mom]

Honey, you can really have it delivered.

[Autotrader Child]

Really? Or I can pick it up at the dealership. One sec, sweetie. Mommy's buying a car.

[Autotrader Mom]

Mommy, I think your kid is walking up the slide, Kyle.

[Co-host (likely Noah Michaelson or Raj Panjabi Johnson)]

Again?

[Kat or Nat from Kat and Nat Unfiltered]

Really?

[Autotrader Child]

Autotrader. Buy your car online. Really?

[Capital One Narrator]

With no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One. If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends it's pretty much all he talks about in a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capitalone.com bank capital1na member FDIC

[Mom Caller]

this

[Kat or Nat from Kat and Nat Unfiltered]

is Kat and Nat from Kat and Nat Unfiltered and this episode is sponsored by Michaels. Your destination for all things 2026 grad if you've got a graduation coming up, the Party Shop at Michael's is your new best friend. It's your one stop shop for everything. Graduation balloons, party decor, tableware, DIY gifting, and more. Literally everything you need. All starting at just 1.99. We're all about making life easier and Michaels has made it super simple with ready made balloon bundles, 2026 numbers and even free helium inflation on select styles. Plus you can shop same day delivery or buy online and pick up in store Michaels everything. To celebrate anything, visit Michaels in store or shop online now.

[Liv Perez]

Hi, I'm Liv Perez from the let's Get Dressed podcast and this episode is presented to you by Depop. If you've been meaning to clean out your closet, but it feels so overwhelming, my best piece of advice for you as a fashion expert is to start with one thing. Depop. Depop makes it so simple to give your pieces a new home. Just snap a photo and their AI powered listings. Fill in all the details for you and here's the best part. Make money easily. With no selling fees on Depop, no seller fees means that you earn exactly what is yours. Another perk. There is someone out there who's going to love that piece the way that you did and who doesn't love making room for something new too. Download the Depop app and list your first item today.