Everything You Need To Know About Caffeine

Summary

Podcast Summary: Am I Doing It Wrong? — Everything You Need To Know About Caffeine

Hosts: Raj Punjabi Johnson & Noah Michelson
Guest: Dr. Marilyn Cornelis (Associate Professor at Northwestern, specializes in genetics of coffee consumption & caffeine metabolism)
Release Date: March 12, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the science and culture of caffeine: how it works, why people respond differently, safe consumption levels, myths, health risks, and the social/psychological impact of caffeine. With expert insights from Dr. Marilyn Cornelis, the hosts explore whether we’re “doing caffeine wrong”—and how to do it right for our well-being.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What Is Caffeine & How Does It Work?

[05:17]

• Dr. Cornelis: "Caffeine is an alkaloid. It's a natural stimulant found in coffee, tea...what most of us kind of equate with caffeine is its stimulating effects."
• Regardless of source, the basic physiological effects of caffeine are the same, but natural (in coffee/tea) vs. synthetic (energy drinks, sodas) origins differ in how they’re labeled and perhaps perceived.

2. Caffeine Metabolism: Why Does It Affect People Differently?

[07:39]

• Differences in response come down to metabolism, largely influenced by genetics.
• Dr. Cornelis: "The enzyme that metabolizes caffeine is CYP1A2...it metabolizes 95% of caffeine. Smoking increases the activity of that enzyme."
• Estrogen slows down caffeine metabolism, making women typically more sensitive than men.
• Behavioral factors (social rituals, environment) also influence perceived effects.

3. The Science Behind the Buzz

[06:23]

• Caffeine blocks adenosine receptors, leading to alertness and reduced feelings of sleepiness.
• Dr. Cornelis: "Adenosine is [related] to relaxation...Caffeine would have the opposite effects because it blocks the actions of adenosine."

4. How Much Caffeine Is Safe?

[11:01]

• The general recommendation: up to 400mg/day (~4-5 cups of black coffee) is safe for most adults.
• Dr. Cornelis: "If you're already consuming five cups per day and you're healthy, there's no need to cut back."
• Individual tolerance can vary greatly; it's key to pay attention to personal reactions.

5. Health Benefits and Risks

[12:36, 13:30]

• Moderate consumption is linked to benefits (e.g., reduced risk for certain diseases, improved weight management), but overconsumption can trigger jitters, anxiety, insomnia, and, in rare cases, more severe effects.
• Coffee and tea contain a host of other beneficial compounds—antioxidants in both, catechins in tea, and complex phytochemicals in coffee.

6. Coffee vs. Tea vs. Energy Drinks

[13:14, 15:51]

• Tea has about half the caffeine of coffee but different phytochemical profiles.
• Compared to sodas and energy drinks (often full of sugar and chemicals), black coffee and tea are generally healthier options for caffeine.

7. Caffeine and Young People

[29:01, 34:13]

• Very little research exists on caffeine’s impact on developing brains. Energy drinks and booming coffee shop trends mean kids and teens are consuming more.
• Dr. Cornelis: "The impact caffeine has on the developing brain of young children, we don't know a whole lot about."

8. Caffeine’s Effects on Digestion and Bodily Functions

[22:19–23:36]

• Coffee does make many people poop—due to its impact on gut motility and additional compounds beyond caffeine (even decaf has this effect).
• Mild diuretic effect, but not significant enough to strongly dehydrate you under normal circumstances.

9. Caffeine and Alcohol: The “Sober Up” Myth

[24:04]

• While caffeine can mask some symptoms of intoxication (e.g., reaction speed), it does not truly sober you up. Relying on it to reduce alcohol’s cognitive effects is risky.

10. Addiction, Withdrawal, and Stigma

[27:36]

• You can build tolerance and experience withdrawal (notably headaches) due to increased adenosine receptor expression in the brain.
• Dr. Cornelis: "Those withdrawal symptoms are because your adenosine receptors [...] are highly expressed now... you could just slowly wean off."

11. Special Populations & Cautions

[30:17]

• People with heart conditions, or those with anxiety or depression, need extra caution; caffeine may interact with medications.
• If caffeine affects you negatively, there’s zero obligation to consume it, despite its social normalization.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Noah Michelson on his own caffeine struggles:
  "It's like I have spiders under my skin..." [03:51]

• Dr. Cornelis (on overcaffeination):
  "At the moment, there isn't anything [to counteract it]. You just have to ride it out, basically." [10:41]

• Raj Punjabi Johnson (on coffee and regularity):
  "What about the myth or the truth...that coffee makes you poop? Is that true?" [22:19]

• Dr. Cornelis (on coffee and bowel habits):
  "It's true...in randomized control trials, we also see that decaf works just as well. The fact that we see it with decaf suggests that there are other things in coffee as well." [23:36]

• On caffeine for teens:
  (Raj): "You don't want to be Jessie Spano." [34:18]

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Important Segment Timestamps

• 03:14 — Personal caffeine stories; why some love it and some quit
• 05:17 — What is caffeine and how does it work?
• 07:39 — Why do people respond differently? (genetics, metabolism, gender, smoking)
• 11:01 — How much is too much? (FDA guidelines, individual tolerance)
• 13:14 — Coffee vs. tea vs. sodas and energy drinks
• 17:23 — High-profile caffeine incidents (Panera lemonade, Four Loko, energy drinks)
• 22:19 — Coffee as a "poo catalyst"—truth and science
• 24:04 — Caffeine and alcohol: does it sober you up?
• 27:36 — Caffeine addiction, withdrawal symptoms, and tolerance
• 29:01 — Kids and caffeine, marketing to young people
• 30:17 — Who should be careful with caffeine?
• 33:35 — Top 5 takeaways (“Better in Five” rapid recap)

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Top 5 Takeaways ("Better in Five")

[33:39-34:24]

1. Caffeine = Stimulant (natural or synthetic, same effect)
2. Reactions vary greatly (genetics, metabolism, culture)
3. Up to 400mg/day is safe—but individual experience matters
4. Best sources: Black coffee/tea > sodas/energy drinks
5. Kids & teens: Effects are unknown—err on the side of caution

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Conclusion & Tone

Warm, humorous, curious, occasionally self-deprecating (“We’re the dummies...”). The hosts want listeners to find their own healthy caffeine balance—and not feel pressured by culture or myths. The episode blends hard science with real-life anecdotes, empowerment, and practical advice.

As Dr. Cornelis puts it:
"Caffeine is a drug... Just because it's a part of our society doesn't mean you have to do it." [31:10]

And as always, the hosts encourage everyone to “do it better”—be it with caffeine or anything else life throws their way.

Transcript

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[Dr. Marilyn Cornelis]

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[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Hi, I'm Raj Punjabi Johnson, head of identity content at HuffPost.

[Noah Michelson]

And I'm Noah Michelson, the head of HuffPost Personal.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Welcome to Am I Doing It Wrong? The show that explores the all too human anxieties we have about trying to get our lives right.

[Noah Michelson]

Hi, Raj.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Hi. Okay, I have a fun question to ask you. Are you doing caffeine wrong?

[Noah Michelson]

So my answer to that is no, but instead of yes and because I don't do it at all anymore. Because about 10 years ago, I would go every day at 3pm to a coffee shop and get myself an iced coffee. I was like, that's my little treat. Like, I made it through most of the day. I'm gonna treat myself. And I would get back to my desk and by 3:30, I was having a panic attack.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Oh, no.

[Noah Michelson]

And I had no idea why it was freaking me out. I would have jitters. I would feel like the world was ending. And someone was like, you idiot, you're drinking like cold brew.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Yeah.

[Noah Michelson]

And it's caffeine. So I stopped doing that. And then I wean myself off of everything else because caffeine really affects me. And I hate the feeling. It's like I have spiders under my skin that are just crawling all over me. So, yeah, I'm doing it wrong. My body's doing it wrong.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

I'm glad you no longer have the spiders.

[Noah Michelson]

You're not. You love it, right?

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

I love it. I will consume your share of coffee.

[Noah Michelson]

Okay. You can have it.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

I think I'm doing it right because I. I don't put too much crap in my coffee.

[Noah Michelson]

Yeah.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

And I love the way it makes me feel. I do have a lot of questions about how much I should be consuming because I feel like sometimes I just want to like, stick an IV right in my vein of cold brew. So, yeah, I need some help.

[Noah Michelson]

Well, we've got help for you. We have Dr. Marilyn Cornelis. She is an associate professor at Northwestern. And this is so cool. She specializes in the genetics of coffee consumption and also caffeine metabolism, which. Who even knew that was a job?

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

I know, I love that. Let's go. Marilyn, thank you so much for being here today.

[Dr. Marilyn Cornelis]

You're welcome.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

I am all caffeinated, so let's.

[Noah Michelson]

And I have no caffeine, so we'll see how this goes.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

This is going to be a good. A good balance.

[Dr. Marilyn Cornelis]

And my caffeine ran out, so we

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

need to doordash her some caffeine. Immediately. Let's start at the very basics. What is caffeine exactly, and what is it base function?

[Dr. Marilyn Cornelis]

Well, caffeine is an alkaloid. It's a natural stimulant found in coffee, tea. And its stimulating effects are obviously what most of us kind of equate with caffeine.

[Noah Michelson]

You know, if you get caffeine from coffee or tea, a natural source, versus, like, an energy drink or a soda, is that caffeine different or is all caffeine the same?

[Dr. Marilyn Cornelis]

The physiological effects of caffeine will be the same regardless of where you get it from.

[Noah Michelson]

The.

[Dr. Marilyn Cornelis]

The caffeine that's added to sodas and energy drinks, that's. That's a chemically synthesized caffeine. It's not naturally occurring. That's why you see it on the ingredient list for those products. If you consume it through coffee and tea, it's naturally present. So you would never see caffeine on the ingredient list of your coffee because it's natural. That's what makes it quite different.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

So interesting, because I once asked my brother, who's a physician, like, what's better if I just have one a day, like a soda or a coffee? And he was like, oh, my God, coffee. Like, totally different night and day. So that makes sense. Can you tell us a little bit about how it gives us energy?

[Dr. Marilyn Cornelis]

It blocks the actions of adenosine at these receptors in our brain and also expressed throughout the body. They're called the adenosine receptors, and there are a number of isoforms. And each of these isoforms have a number of effects. And one of the key isoforms that give rise to the psychostigmund effects are the adenosine 2A receptors. So basically, caffeine blocks the action of the natural ligand for these adenosine receptors, which is adenosine, and that actually gives rise to the opposite effects of adenosine. Adenosine is typically related to relaxation and even some sleepy effects. Caffeine would have the opposite effects because it blocks the actions of adenosine.

[Noah Michelson]

I mean, I have no idea how any of this works, and I have never thought about it, but, yeah, there's all these chemical reactions happening in your body.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

And that's funny, because I want the adenosine, but when I'm drinking coffee, I'm purposely not trying to be relaxed.

[Noah Michelson]

Yeah, exactly. Do we know why caffeine affects different people. People differently? Like from I was telling Raj earlier, I can't drink any caffeine. It makes me so anxious. And you love caffeine.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

I love it. I mean, I like a good, strong, cold brew also. So. Like that extra.

[Noah Michelson]

Yeah, yeah. So what is it? Why does caffeine affect me differently than Raj, than someone else?

[Dr. Marilyn Cornelis]

It's likely the metabolism of it. We all metabolize it very differently and genetics play a role. But there are also other factors for differences in caffeine metabolism. Might be smoking. So we know that. We know that smokers generally consume more caffeine, and there's kind of two reasons for that. It's probably a behavioral thing, but it's also a biological thing. The chemicals in the tobacco induces the activity of the enzyme that metabolizes caffeine. And the enzyme that metabolizes caffeine is CYP1A2, and it metabolizes 95% of caffeine. And smoking increases the activity of that enzyme. And so that's why smokers consume more caffeine. And when they become non smokers or just, you know, past smokers, they generally reduce their caffeine consumption because they can't tolerate, because they, they don't metabolize as quickly as they do because the caffeine lingers on in their system. So that's one factor. Another one is estrogen. Women generally have lower SIP1A2 activity, so they metabolize caffeine a little slower than men.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

I have a follow up. What about related to that? Is that similar with mood? Like why some people get jittery and kind of anxious when they have coffee? I personally, and I get happy, I get in a better mood when I have coffee. And I know other people anecdotally have been like, yeah, it feels like Prozac. Like your mood elevates a little bit. Is that also just genetic, how we, our bodies respond to the caffeine?

[Dr. Marilyn Cornelis]

Yeah, that's one reason. And people who experience jitters or anxiety with caffeine, it's because they probably just consuming too much. I think because caffeine is so widely available, a lot of people are very familiar with how they respond to caffeine and know exactly how much they consume. And so they kind of avoid the. What's cool about caffeine is that you get those, that feedback, you get the negative feedback, so you cut back right away. Even in the genetics we see this is that we generally titrate our levels to, to kind of match the, the good feel that we get from caffeine. So if we're having, if we're getting jittery, we naturally cut back. If we need more, we go and get more. When you talk about Feeling good, in the mood. There's also some behavioral or kind of environmental factors, because when people think about having a cup of coffee, they think about a coffee shop being with your friends. It's also the social environment. So people might kind of correlate the. The psychosoman effects of caffeine, which. With those social factors.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

So interesting.

[Noah Michelson]

Yeah, that really is.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

And when I think about myself having more energy, that makes me happy. Like, I. I want to get more done. I think that's totally behavioral. I'm like, okay, I feel like I can handle more.

[Noah Michelson]

You're making all these associations with it.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Yes.

[Noah Michelson]

Yeah. Marilyn, here's a question for you. If we drink too much caffeine and we are jittery, we're having that anxiety, is there anything we can do in that moment to get rid of that feeling? Is there something we could take to counteract it? Or do we just have to ride it out until our body processes it and gets rid of it?

[Dr. Marilyn Cornelis]

At the moment, there isn't anything. You just have to ride it out, basically.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

How much caffeine can we consume comfortably or should we be consuming? I know there's a lot of news every year about, like, caffeine's good for you because of this. Or. But. And there's, like, a certain amount. Can you give us a little bit of advice? If I'm a coffee drinker, how much should I be drinking?

[Dr. Marilyn Cornelis]

The FDA suggests that up to up to 400 milligrams of caffeine is safe.

[Noah Michelson]

And.

[Dr. Marilyn Cornelis]

And that's equivalent to around four cups of coffee, or. Yeah, four cups of coffee per day. That's a lot.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

That.

[Dr. Marilyn Cornelis]

Yeah, right. Well, for some people, like, if my, say, my father, he was a. Used to be a huge coffee drinker, four cups was just nothing. In 2015, the Dietary Guidelines actually went into the literature on caffeine and coffee specifically, because there's been a lot of research linking coffee consumption specifically to health, and they indicated that. They actually indicated up to five cups of coffee per day is safe. Obviously, black, preferably, it's safe and possibly beneficial. But it wasn't a recommendation that you should be consuming five cups. If you're already consuming five cups per day and you're healthy, relatively, there's no need to cut back.

[Noah Michelson]

So I have a little story for you guys. I had a friend in college, and she had never drank coffee before she got to college, and she started to love it. And at the same time, she started to get sick, and she couldn't sleep, and she was losing a ton of Weight. And she went to the doctor and they asked her, they were like, are you drinking coffee? And she said yes. And they said, how much? And she said, well, two a day. And they were like, that shouldn't be it. So she left. And after a couple months, she came back because she was still really having a lot of issues. And they said, are you sure you're only drinking two cups a day? And she said, two cups? I'm drinking two pots.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Oh my God.

[Noah Michelson]

And they were like, oh, my God. You can't drink two pots a day. And so she had to like, wean off of it. But, Marilyn, what are some of the health risks if you are drinking too much?

[Dr. Marilyn Cornelis]

I think most of the literature suggests that at least coffee is actually beneficial. But the adverse effects would be those more the acute effects that you get with too much, too much caffeine. So again, the jitters and anxiety. And also if you're not sleeping well at night, that's another indicator that perhaps you're consuming too much caffeine. The weight loss is interesting. Coffee or caffeine actually is beneficial with weight management because it does act like an appetite suppressant.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

This is why I never drink coffee with my breakfast, because I like a big old breakfast and if I drink it, I don't. I can't eat as much. I always have it after.

[Noah Michelson]

Interesting.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

I asked about healthy ways to consume caffeine. Can you tell me a little bit about tea? I feel like a lot of my friends are like, I'm doing green tea now. It's like the caffeine kind of rides out for a little longer and they like the way it feels. Is that a healthier alternative?

[Dr. Marilyn Cornelis]

It's another alternative. I wouldn't say it's healthier. It's probably equivalent. If you want to, you know, mix up your caffeine sources, that's great. The profile of tea and coffee are very different. Black or green tea typically have about half the amount of caffeine and the phytochemical profile. So the. The things that we consider antioxidants are pretty good for you. They're quite different. So, for example, tea is very rich source of catechins. So sometimes you might see these in your supplement store where they sell green tea extract. It's the catechins that they're putting into a pill for potentially benefits for cardiometabolic risk factors. So that's catechin. The other one that it's probably related to your. What your friends had mentioned about how the caffeine kind of lingers on or if you can, it's kind of, kind of more of a balanced impact. It might be theanine. It's an amino acid that has more of relaxing, kind of a relaxing profile. So that might be contributing to the effects we see with, with tea. Coffee. It's been linked to benefits on regulating your sugar metabolism and it's probably implicated in its, in the, the inverse relationship that we see with coffee consumption. Type 2 diabetes. It also contains another number of other compounds that are produced during the roasting effect of coffee. They might also have benefits as well. But coffee and tea have hundreds of different compounds. We just know a lot, a lot more about caffeine. But there are so many other potential good things that are found in coffee. And that's why we might be seeing benefits with a number of neur. Neurodegenerative diseases, cardiometabolic diseases, and cardiovascular disease. So those might be the kind of key factors. Caffeine might be contributing to some of these benefits, but there's also other things as well. And if you compare it to say, other sources of caffeine like sodas and energy drinks, many of these also have other chemicals or sugar. Sugar, which counteracts probably the benefits that we see that we see with coffee. So these are clearly better sources. But going back to your main question about tea, yeah, tea is definitely an option as well.

[Noah Michelson]

This is one of those episodes where people are like, oh, I can. I'm getting healthy by drinking my coffee.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Yeah, Permission.

[Noah Michelson]

They love to hear it. Yeah, absolutely.

[Dr. Marilyn Cornelis]

Yeah.

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[Dr. Marilyn Cornelis]

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[Noah Michelson]

We have seen in the news and because it's so sensational, but like people dying from drinking too much caffeine. I think there was a Panera, an incident, incident at Panera where this woman had what they called like supercharged lemonade, and it had like 400 milligrams of caffeine in a large. And she was drinking them all the time. I think she might have had a heart issue as well.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Noah Michelson]

And you spoke earlier, Marilyn, about this idea of like toxicity from too much caffeine. So where is the line? I mean, when do people. You said five cups should be okay for some people. What do people have to watch out for, though, if they're having like six energy drinks a day or, you know, a ton of Red Bulls? What would you say in terms of where are we getting into territory that is not safe?

[Dr. Marilyn Cornelis]

Going back to Panera issue, The lemonade, I believe it was almost like a fountain drink the way the people got it. And so to regulate how much caffeine is added to that, it's very difficult. And when you go into a coffee shop, it's not like you, you, you have to be 18 years of age to consume it. It's. It's not regulated. You can have as much as you want because it's all also because it's natural. But these lemonade charged drinks, they're kind of targeting a very different population. They're sweet tasting. They're kind of targeting the younger individuals. So that's an issue too. And because they're cold, you can down a lot in a short amount of time. When I'm talking about five cups of coffee per day, that's not typically in one setting. It's usually spread out throughout the day.

[Noah Michelson]

Right.

[Dr. Marilyn Cornelis]

Another example would be back to the alcohol and caffeine mixes. Those, some of those were pulled from the shelves as well. And even some of the, some of the energy to drinks have also changed their profile. I believe Celsius at one point had a beverage that was 300 milligrams of caffeine. I don't believe they sell that kind anymore. I think the most that they have is around 200 milligrams. But that's also. That's quite a bit. It's around just, you know, just under maybe two cups of coffee. But, but the people who are consuming these are very different. They tend to be. Are more people that take, like to take risks in life. I guess they're riskier people. They're, you know, again, going back to the alcohol and caffeine consumption. A lot of these people are binge drinking, so those are things to consider.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

I have to bring up Four Loko. I mean, this was like, a big part of my college years. Now I have not tasted a Four Loko in my life because I was always really scared. I didn't love the idea of something that made your heart race mixed with alcohol. And you're right about when you're binge drinking, you're also dehydrated. Right. Like, this is gonna affect the way your body handles all of this stuff.

[Dr. Marilyn Cornelis]

Exactly.

[Noah Michelson]

I love the point that you made, Marilyn, too, about this idea that people. When it's cold and they're just chugging it again, I didn't even think about that. If you have five cups of coffee throughout the day you're working, it's spread out over 10 hours. That's very different than chugging a Red

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Bull that tastes like soda.

[Noah Michelson]

Yeah. Or 400 milligrams in a lemonade that you might drink in eight minutes. That seems insane to me.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

That caffeine that's in the energy drinks, is that synthesized in a lab, or is that the natural stuff that's in coffee and tea?

[Dr. Marilyn Cornelis]

Some of these energy drinks, they do claim that it's natural. So it's maybe from experience extracted from coffee, but you can also produce it in the lab as well.

[Noah Michelson]

I was going to say, too, as we've heard in other episodes, like, just because something is labeled as natural doesn't mean that it is. Or even if it is, doesn't mean that it still can't hurt you. Like, there's very little regulation until something goes really wrong, and then it can be too late. So do not trust labels and don't even trust natural. You have to be careful.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Is caffeine a diuretic? Because I really have to pee, like, seven times after I have one.

[Dr. Marilyn Cornelis]

It does have kind of a mild diuretic effect, but it's not something you need to be really concerned about, because the amount of liquid that you're typically consuming in conjunction with caffeine, it balances out. People say you shouldn't be consuming too much caffeine when you're exercising. And because you dehydrate or it imbalances your electrolytes, that's. That typically isn't something to be too concerned about. I've only come across a few case episodes where a patient might have an electrolyte imbalance and they found out this person was consuming 10 cups of coffee per day. Those are rare cases, but it's generally not something to worry about. And so if you think about, you know, your five cups of coffee over the course of a day, that's also a lot of liquid too. Some people. Yeah, yeah. As much as you like. You know, you would encourage people to consume maybe more water instead of, of all these other beverages. But for some people, they don't like water, but they need to be keep hydrated. So if coffee is the only way to keep them hydrated, then go for it.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

That's right. It's steeped in water. Let's not forget.

[Noah Michelson]

Absolutely. All right. What about the myth or the truth? I don't know. That coffee makes you poop? Is that true?

[Dr. Marilyn Cornelis]

It's true. It's true. People say that in the morning, if they don't have their cup of coffee, they won't have a poop. And it's just timing. It's like within half an hour of having my coffee, I have a poop. And it's.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Yes.

[Dr. Marilyn Cornelis]

And it's kind of cool because it's actually used in the clinic. And there's a lot of evidence suggesting that it's beneficial for post operative surgeries. People experience postoperative ileus is where their bowels aren't functioning well and they're constipated after surgeries. Women might experience it after cesarean and clinical or randomized controlled trials have shown that coffee helps kind of alleviate some of those issues and allows you to go back to your regular bowel movements much more quickly than having water. So it's kind of a cool, practical, cheap way of ensuring regularity, I guess.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

I love it.

[Noah Michelson]

But is that caffeine related? Is that, is it something else in the coffee? What is happening that makes us more regular or makes us have to go.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

The poo catalyst.

[Dr. Marilyn Cornelis]

It's probably, it's. We probably think it's a mix. It's. Caffeine has. Does have a kind of an impact on your. The, the motility of your, your intestine. But there's also other compounds. In cough coffee, it could be the polyphenols. Because in randomized control trials, we also see that we. That decaf works just as well. The fact that we kind of see it with decaf suggests you that there are other things in coffee as well.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

I have an old school myth I would love to hear from you about a deviant question from a deviant host. If you're drunk, does coffee help you sober up? Does caffeine particularly help you sober up.

[Dr. Marilyn Cornelis]

There's data suggesting that it does mask some of the detrimental effects of. Of alcohol, but not all of them. Your reaction speed might be better, but your cognitive clarity might not be altered with coffee after you've consumed, say, alcohol. So there's different aspects of your cognitive function and your psychosuming effects, I guess, that can be masked with coffee. I always think of. I don't know if they. Maybe they do this with every wedding, but typically when at a wedding, once the bar is closed, suddenly they start serving coffee because they just, okay, you're gonna drive home.

[Noah Michelson]

Let's.

[Dr. Marilyn Cornelis]

Let's sober you up. Because, you know, I don't think it necessarily sobers you up, but it does mask some of those detrimental effects that might impact your driving.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Wow.

[Dr. Marilyn Cornelis]

Yeah. Yeah, People do, you know, when they drink, they think, well, I'll just drink caffeine and just, you know, it'll counteract those effects. But, man, that's a lot of. A lot of interactions going on. That's a. That's kind of risky business we're talking here.

[Noah Michelson]

I think caffeine probably does a lot of incredible things like we've been talking about today, but I don't know, maybe

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

don't rely on it.

[Noah Michelson]

It's not worth risking it.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Can you tell us about anything else about. We talked a little bit about mood, about caffeine and how it affects your

[Dr. Marilyn Cornelis]

mental health in the population. Studies have actually shown that coffee is associated with reduced risk of depression. Again, and it suggests that it's possibly the caffeine. And there's. That could be. That could be the driving factor. But again, it could be confounded by, again, those social value factors where we link. You know, when. When you're depressed, you might be lonely and not with people, but when you're with other people, you might be consuming coffee. And so there might be that. What we call a confounder. So it might be the social aspects of consuming coffee too. You're typically with people, with your friends, with family. We really don't know which is the cause and effect here.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

You know, there. I can imagine that there are a lot of variables when we're talking about

[Dr. Marilyn Cornelis]

mental health and caffeine.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

And it's not just like, I love what you said about the social factor, but like, the one time in my life when I've experienced mild depression and was, like, diagnosed as such, when I went and got my coffee, I would go to a coffee shop on purpose. I could be out and like, experience the world, and I got to see sunshine and they got me out of the house. I did all this on purpose, and I would always feel better after, even if I didn't talk to anyone but the barista. There was a social interaction. Plus, I leave the home to get my coffee. I think coffee tastes delicious even though I don't put all this stuff in it. I think there's, like, a reward factor that also is involved with certain caffeine things that can make you feel better. So I never thought about this, but, like, there's so many underlying variables that go into how we react to caffeine.

[Noah Michelson]

I think that's true, too. Like, I know a lot of people who love to, like, treat themselves with a Diet Coke.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Yeah.

[Noah Michelson]

You know what I mean? And I bet you again, I think the caffeine in that probably is having some effect. But also I think it's this idea of, like, this is my treat. I made it to 3pm I'm taking a break. Yeah, exactly. So I think there's probably a lot of stuff at play here. Raj and I were laughing when we wrote this outline about Jessie Spano from

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Saved by the Bell.

[Noah Michelson]

Yeah, that famous episode where she gets addicted to caffeine pills. Not a funny thing. No, you know, in and of itself, but. But sort of the meme that Jesse

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Spano has teen drama is always, yeah, yeah.

[Noah Michelson]

But is there a danger of becoming addicted to caffeine?

[Dr. Marilyn Cornelis]

Individuals who, you know, might start off with four cups of coffee per day, suddenly, you know, they go through, say, a stressful episode with work, and they're now they're up to six cups for coffee per day. You build a tolerance. You start to need more of it. You can address that issue by slowly weaning yourself off, cutting back, not cold turkey, because, again, those. Where you'll get those withdrawal symptoms like. Like headaches. And those withdrawal symptoms are because your adenosine receptors in your brain, for example, are highly expressed now, because, first of all, they've been blocked for a while. And because they've been blocked, their expression increases. And now once you've taken away caffeine, your adenosine receptors, their expression of them is much higher. And now they're looking for caffeine, and now they have this kind of vasoconstrictive effects on your brain. So you get these headaches, but in order to slowly kind of avoid those withdrawal symptoms, you could just slowly wean off. So take a. You know, instead of going six cups per day, wean yourself off to maybe four cups, and then slowly wean yourself back.

[Noah Michelson]

Now that we've got all these crazy drinks at like Starbucks and Dunkin Donuts. I'm seeing like 8 year olds going in and getting, you know, a Frappuccino or so. I'm like, is that okay?

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Should kids be having tender?

[Noah Michelson]

Yeah, but I guess we give kids like sodas with caffeine. So. Yeah. What do you think about all that?

[Dr. Marilyn Cornelis]

Yeah, well, first of all, soda has maybe 25 milligrams of caffeine. Coffee has around maybe 100. So they're quite different.

[Noah Michelson]

Okay.

[Dr. Marilyn Cornelis]

The other issue is that these sodas have a lot of sugar. That's, you know, sugar can make you hyperactive too. And combine that with caffeine, you're. It's kind of crazy. The, the research is interesting because all of the health benefits that we see have been based on research done on adults. And again, coffee and tea and that's kind of our traditional sources of caffeine. The impact the caffeine has on the developing brain of, say, young children, we don't know a whole lot about. And so that's where there's always been the concern about, oh, we should be banning energy drinks if it's packaged and looks nice. And it's being marketed to this, this demographic that see it as, oh my gosh, this is amazing. This is just like a fruit juice. It's not, it's very different. If you have caffeine and sugar together and you get that natural high from the sugar, that's another reason why you want to go to consuming more of these sugary beverages. It's kind of, you equate that the sweetness and caffeine together and you kind of get hooked onto these things.

[Noah Michelson]

Are there any other demographics or populations that should be more careful with caffeine than others?

[Dr. Marilyn Cornelis]

Some may be people with an underlying heart condition. There might be some people that do suffer heart palpations with caffeine. So there's going to be those kind of outliers that might respond in an adverse way to coffee. But there's a very small demographic. And again, as you mentioned, people who are suffering from depression and anxiety, they might also be on other drugs that might interact with caffeine. So again, these are very special cases. Caffeine is a drug and might interact with other medications that we might be taking. So be, be aware of that.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

I love that advice because I feel like I have friends who don't drink coffee because they're like, I don't like the way it makes me feel, period.

[Noah Michelson]

Right.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Like, that goes for any, any drug. Right. Like weed Whatever. I don't like the way it makes me feel done.

[Noah Michelson]

Right.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Like, just because it's a part of our societal, like it's really big, doesn't mean you have to do it. Exactly.

[Noah Michelson]

Absolutely.

[Dr. Marilyn Cornelis]

Yeah.

[Noah Michelson]

Marilyn, thank you so much for this. I feel like I learned a ton.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

I definitely got smarter. I learned big words.

[Noah Michelson]

Yeah.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

And I'm gonna use them with my barista. Yeah.

[Dr. Marilyn Cornelis]

Okay, great.

[Noah Michelson]

Thank you so much.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

We appreciate it.

[Dr. Marilyn Cornelis]

It was my pleasure. My pleasure.

[Commercial Voice]

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[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Once our driver had to do a

[Noah Michelson]

14 point turn to get back on route.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

A 14 point turn. An influencer even livestream the whole thing.

[Dr. Marilyn Cornelis]

Not good for business.

[Commercial Voice]

Now with AT&T business wireless, routes are updating on the fly and deliveries are on time.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

And the influencer did get us 53 new followers though.

[Commercial Voice]

AT&T business Wireless connecting changes everything.

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[Noah Michelson]

Okay, it's time for better in five. These are your top five takeaways from this episode.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Number one, Caffeine can come in natural or synthesized forms, but all of it is a stimulant.

[Noah Michelson]

That's right. Number two, everyone's gonna respond to caffeine Differently, depending on your genetics, but also something like your cultural background can play into it as well.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

That's right. Number three, most people can consume safely about 400 milligrams of caffeine a day. But it really comes down to everyone's individual journey and how you feel.

[Noah Michelson]

Mm. Number four, consuming caffeine via black coffee or tea is usually gonna be better for you than sodas or energy drinks with tons of other chemicals in them.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

And number five, super important, there's not a ton of research yet on the effects of caffeine in young people. So if you are a teenager, maybe, you know, take it back a notch. You don't want to be Jessie Spano.

[Noah Michelson]

Okay. I feel like I know the answer to this question, but I'm going to ask you anyways. Have you been doing caffeine wrong?

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

No. A Raji. I'm drinking less, you know, than the recommended amount. I'm not putting a lot of stuff in it. It makes me feel really good.

[Noah Michelson]

Yeah.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

And I'm like an 8 minute responder in the. It just helps me start my day. My body feels good. I don't know. I kind of feel like I've been given permission to keep doing it how I'm doing it, which is so different from most of our other topics.

[Noah Michelson]

Yeah. That's a gift.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

I got a gift today. What about you?

[Noah Michelson]

I just. I don't know if I'm doing it wrong. Cause I don't wanna go anywhere near it. This is the thing too. When I was growing up, my mom would buy caffeine free Diet Coke.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Okay.

[Noah Michelson]

And I was convinced it tasted worse. Like I just didn't want it. It had those weird gold cans. It was like a grandma. So.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Okay.

[Noah Michelson]

That grandma soda is now in my fridge because I don't even drink regular Diet Coke anymore. I just. I've been so burned by that feeling.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Yeah.

[Noah Michelson]

Of the anxiety. I have enough anxiety in my life as it is.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Sure. I feel you.

[Noah Michelson]

I don't need to, like, welcome more in.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Yes. And I think she gave us permission to have as little or as much or zero if you want it, which feels really good.

[Noah Michelson]

And also to maybe think about our consumption. Maybe some people listening don't realize maybe they're going to have the awakening that I had where they're like. Like I actually feel anxious sometimes too. And it's after I have the iced coffee. Maybe they're not. I'm not gonna say you're a dummy, but maybe you're just less informed like I was. We're the dummies we are always the dummies. And until next time, as long as there are things to get wrong, these two dummies are gonna be right here to help you do it better.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

We love you. Am I Doing It Wrong? Is a co production between HuffPost and Acast.

[Noah Michelson]

Our producers are Eve Bishop, Carmen Borca Carrillo and Malia Agadello.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Our executive producers are Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rutter.

[Noah Michelson]

Special thanks to HuffPost's head of audience,

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Abby Williams, Head of Video Will Took,

[Noah Michelson]

as well as Kate Palmer, Marta Rodriguez and Terry d'. Angelo.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

And we're your hosts Raj Panjabi Johnson and Noah Michelson.

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Did you know you can save up to 70% on your favorite brands every single day? From rebel.com sells strollers, car seats, espresso machine machines, skincare, cookware, everything you need for your home, your family and your life. All for way less. Here's how it works. Every day, Rebel drops thousands of new products for up to 70% off. It's a non stop feed of deals from brands like UPPAbaby, Nuna, BabyBjorn, Nespresso, Breville, Wilson, Dyson, Caraway, and more. But every listing is one of a kind. So if you see something you love, you have to move fast. Why pay full price when you don't have to? From baby gear to tech to self care staples, Rebel helps you save big on brands you know and love. Shop now@from rebel.com

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[Noah Michelson]

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Hey, it's Adam Grant from Ted's podcast Work Life and this episode is brought to you by ServiceNow. AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built into. That's why it's no surprise that more than 85% of the Fortune 500 companies use the ServiceNow AI platform. While other platforms duct tape tools together, ServiceNow seamlessly unifies people, data, workflows and AI connecting every corner of your business. And with AI agents working together autonomously, anyone in any department can focus on the work that matters Most. Learn how ServiceNow puts AI to work for [e-mail] My perfect day has sand, salt water and friends, but my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis can take me out of the moment. Now I'm all in with clearer skin thanks to Skyrizi Risankizumab RZA, a prescription only 150mg injection for adults who are candidates for systemic or phototherapy. With Skyrizi. Most people saw 90% clearer skin and many were even 100% plaque free. At four months, Skyrizi is just four doses a year. After two starter doses.

[Dr. Marilyn Cornelis]

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