More Secrets To Making Your Doggy Happy

Summary

Am I Doing It Wrong? - Episode Summary: More Secrets To Making Your Doggy Happy

Release Date: December 19, 2024

In this engaging episode of Am I Doing It Wrong?, hosts Raj Panjabi-Johnson and Noah Michelson delve deep into the intricacies of canine behavior with expert insights from Dr. Emily Levine, an esteemed animal behaviorist with a veterinary background. The episode addresses common concerns dog owners face, offering practical solutions to enhance the well-being and happiness of their furry companions.

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1. Understanding and Addressing Excessive Barking

Listener Question: "How do I get my golden retrievers to stop barking at the neighbor's dog over the fence?"
(Lisa, [04:17])

Dr. Emily emphasizes the importance of identifying the underlying cause of the barking rather than merely attempting to suppress the behavior. She compares it to addressing why a dog might vomit before treating the symptom. By understanding the dog's emotional state—be it excitement, anxiety, or territoriality—owners can implement tailored strategies such as:

• Social Needs Fulfillment: Scheduling playdates to satisfy the dog’s desire for interaction.
• Recall Training: Teaching the dog to respond to commands to divert attention.
• Environmental Management: Installing barriers like shrubs to reduce visual stimuli that trigger barking.
• Desensitization and Counter-Conditioning: Gradually exposing the dog to the trigger in a controlled manner to reduce reactivity.

Notable Quote:

“Why is he or she barking in the first place? So this is where really trying to understand a dog's underlying emotional state and motivation is key.”
— Dr. Emily Levine ([04:38])

Host Insight: Noah shares his experience with their dog Jumi, highlighting the role of understanding the root cause in effectively managing behaviors.

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2. Decoding the "Poop Dance"

Listener Question: "Why does my dog perform the poop dance before going to the bathroom, and can I encourage him to go quicker?"
(Noah, [10:43])

Dr. Emily explains that while the exact motivations remain partly a mystery, the "poop dance" is likely tied to a dog’s keen sense of smell and their instinct to find an optimal spot for elimination. She suggests:

• Allowing Natural Behavior: Letting the dog take the time they need to find their preferred spot.
• Training Cues: Introducing commands like "hurry up" to encourage quicker elimination when necessary.
• Consistent Routine: Maintaining regular bathroom breaks to reduce anxiety around finding the perfect spot.

Notable Quote:

“Dogs' sense of smell is very, very important. They get a lot of information from what they're smelling that we will never comprehend.”
— Dr. Emily Levine ([11:29])

Noah shares his strategy of designating a specific area for Jumi, which helps streamline the process and save time.

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3. Ensuring Your Dog is Content When Left Alone

Listener Question: "What’s the best way to ensure my dog isn’t upset when I’m gone?"
(John, [17:03])

Dr. Emily recommends videotaping the dog’s behavior when alone to identify signs of boredom or distress. Depending on the observations, solutions may include:

• Mental Stimulation Toys: Providing foraging toys to keep the dog engaged.
• Pre-Departure Exercise: Engaging in mental and physical activities before leaving to tire the dog out.
• Safety and Comfort: Ensuring the dog has a comfortable environment to relax in.

Notable Quote:

“There are some dogs who… happily nap and are clearly relaxed…the very best thing dog owners should do is to videotape their dog when they are left alone.”
— Dr. Emily Levine ([17:22])

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4. Managing House Soiling Without Punishment

Listener Question: "What’s the best way to discourage a dog from soiling the house after the fact?"
(Noah, [19:10])

Dr. Emily stresses that punishment is ineffective due to the time gap between the behavior and the consequence. Instead, she advocates for:

• Positive Reinforcement: Rewarding the dog for eliminating in the correct place.
• Supervision and Accessibility: Preventing unsupervised opportunities to soil and recognizing subtle signals.
• Consistent Routine: Regular bathroom breaks to establish a reliable habit.

Notable Quote:

“The actual act of eliminating is, in and of itself, rewarding you feel better. And it’s a very natural thing.”
— Dr. Emily Levine ([19:45])

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5. Behavioral Changes Over Time and Social Maturity

Listener Question: "Why do sweet dogs become more aggressive or reactive as they age?"
(Sanjana, [27:39])

Dr. Emily explains that social maturation between ages 1 and 4 can alter a dog’s perception of the world, similar to human children becoming more selective and assertive. Factors influencing this change include:

• Temperamental Traits: Fearfulness or impulsivity can intensify behavioral shifts.
• Traumatic Events: Negative experiences can lead to increased aggression or reactivity.
• Medical Issues: Subtle discomforts may manifest as irritability or mood changes.

Notable Quote:

“Dogs have the same neuroanatomy that we do to hang on to emotionally significant events.”
— Dr. Emily Levine ([31:46])

Hosts discuss the parallels between human therapy and addressing dog behaviors, reinforcing the importance of understanding dogs as sentient beings with their own emotions and thoughts.

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6. Introducing Dogs to New Babies and Cats

Listener Questions:

• "What’s the best way to introduce your dog to a new baby?"
• "How do you safely introduce a cat to a household with dogs?"
  (Lindsay, [37:15] & Noah, [43:53])

Introducing Dogs to Babies:
Dr. Emily advises a gradual introduction process:

• Pre-Birth Preparations: Establish new rules and routines before the baby arrives.
• Controlled Introductions: Use items like baby hats or blankets for the dog to sniff, ensuring positive associations.
• Supervised Interactions: Allow the dog to greet the baby calmly, managing excitement or anxiety.

Introducing Cats to Dogs:
Key considerations include:

• Assess Dog’s Temperament: Determine if the dog has a history of chasing or aggression towards cats.
• Controlled Meetings: Start with scent introductions and use barriers before face-to-face interactions.
• Training Cues: Reinforce commands like "stay" and "come" to manage the dog's responses.
• Fostering Trials: Consider fostering a cat first to observe dynamic interactions without a full commitment.

Notable Quote:

“There is no rush to have the dog and the baby sniff each other right away... take it slow.”
— Dr. Emily Levine ([37:31])

Hosts share personal anecdotes, emphasizing patience and safety in multi-pet households.

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7. Do Dogs Dream?

Listener Question: "Do dogs dream?"
(Noah, [47:37])

Dr. Emily confirms that dogs do dream, supported by their similar neuroanatomy to humans and observable REM sleep behaviors, such as rapid eye movements and physical movements during sleep.

Notable Quote:

“From my perspective, it’s... yes, dogs dream.”
— Dr. Emily Levine ([47:56])

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Better in Five: Top 5 Takeaways

1. Investigate the Root Cause: Address the underlying reasons for any behavioral issues rather than just the symptoms.
2. Observe When Alone: Videotape your dog’s behavior when you’re not home to identify boredom or distress.
3. Respect Individual Personalities: Recognize that each dog has a unique personality and may not conform to stereotypical behaviors.
4. Promote Positive Training: Use rewards to encourage good behavior instead of punishing mistakes.
5. Strategic Introductions: Carefully and slowly introduce new babies or pets to maintain harmony and safety in the household.

Host Reflections:
Both Raj and Noah express newfound understandings and affirm the profound connections between human and canine behaviors, underscoring the importance of empathy and tailored approaches in dog training and care.

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Whether you're grappling with incessant barking, navigating the challenges of a new baby, or simply curious about your dog's nocturnal journeys, this episode offers invaluable insights to help you create a happier, healthier environment for your beloved pet.

Transcript

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[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Hi, I'm Raj Panjabi Johnson, head of identity content at HuffPost.

[Noah Michelson]

And I'm Noah Michelson, head of HuffPost Personal.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Welcome to Am I Doing It Wrong? The show that explores the all too human anxieties we have about trying to get our lives right.

[Noah Michelson]

So if you are a fan of the show, you probably remember last season we did an entire episode on how to make your dog happier.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Yeah.

[Noah Michelson]

And that is one of our most popular episodes. People loved it. Actually, some people were annoyed because in that episode we said not all dogs like to be pet. And I don't know if you remember, Raj, the Internet was burned down when we said that.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Guys, guys, don't hate the player, hate the game. Like, this is just reality.

[Noah Michelson]

It's just the way it is. But because it was so powerful popular, we thought we should do another one.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Absolutely. And we decided to get amazing questions from our loyal listeners, and we did that. We have a fantastic wealth of knowledge to share with you from Dr. Emily Levine, an animal behaviorist with a background in veterinary medicine who was here last time. She was amazing. And she's back.

[Noah Michelson]

Release the hounds.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Let's do. Dr. Emily, thank you so much for being here again. We're so excited to have you back.

[Brittany]

I'm excited to be back. Thank you.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

All right. We have some amazing questions from listeners.

[Noah Michelson]

We sure do.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

And we are so happy to help everyone make sure that their dogs are happier and healthier. So let's start out with Lisa's question. She asks, and this is so funny and cute, how do I get my golden retrievers to stop barking at the neighbor's dog over the fence? I think a lot of pet parents did deal with barking. How do we address it?

[Brittany]

That is a great question, a very common question. And what I find most interesting about it is that is, as humans, that is our default sort of go to place. How do I stop this? Because it's, you know, annoying or has practical issues, all that kind of stuff. So I'm going to go off on a little bit of a tangent here.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Sure.

[Brittany]

And just sort of give an analogy that will make my answer to that question more. Seem more sensible. So if a dog vomits and we said, how do I stop this behavior? We could say, put some duct tape over your dog's mouth. That'll stop the vomiting. But hopefully most people would be like, ooh, that doesn't sound good. That sounds like it could have a lot of risks because we haven't actually identified why the dog is vomiting. The very first question we should ask with any physical symptom or behavioral symptom is why is the dog doing it? So most people can wrap their head around, well, if a dog vomits, the dog can probably vomit for some very innocuous reasons that are no big deal, with a pretty simple plan and good prognosis. Whereas other reasons may have not as great of a prognosis and have a much more complicated treatment approach. When someone says, my dog is barking, how can I stop it? My mind just goes to, well, why is he or she barking in the first place? So this is where really trying to understand a dog's underlying emotional state and motivation is key to being able to identify what is the most appropriate intervention and how successful are we going to be at resolving this problem. And this is where having a really qualified behavior trainer is critical. Because there are some situations where let's say the dog is just barking because they're happy to see the other dogs across the fence, like, let's play, let's do something. And they're just happy and bounding. Then for a lot of those dogs, making sure that, that that dog is getting their social needs met is an important part of this. So maybe they can schedule some play dates with that dog, make sure they're getting those needs met, but also work on some basic recall training so that they can call the dog away from the fence when he's barking, and also giving the dog fun things to do in the yard so that he has something, he or she has something else to do. So that is, and with training this, you have to sort of go through like distraction level training. So, so all these things would say, okay, well that has a pretty good prognosis and that would seem like very reasonable steps to take. Whereas if a dog is barking at the neighbor's dog because he has, he or she has very negative feelings, I don't like this dog. Whatever the case may be, that's when we have to talk about realistic expectations and what kind of treatments we may do. So for instance, in that scenario, management changes are going to play an important role. So for instance, we might have to say, you know what, if possible, put up shrubs or something like that to prevent your dog from practicing this unwanted behavior. Because every time they practice it, it's strengthening a muscle, it gets stronger and stronger and stronger. In addition to that, we might need to work on more desensitization and counter conditioning technique so that when the dog is out there, they can learn to not pay so much attention to the other dog and do other things and, or give them other things to do. And some dogs may need, if they have certain temperamental traits that make them very anxious or very reactive in general, they may need medicines to help with that process. And then realistic expectations have to be given to the owner that if you do these exercises with your dog in the yard, keep in mind what he or she is learning is that when mom is here, I know I'm going to get called over. I'm going to be able to play ball or get rewarded for downstays or doing whatever. But. And if the dog does well, it doesn't mean that he or she's going to do well. When mom's in the house, they just open the door and let the dog out. This is where having someone who's very knowledgeable about behavior overall, in addition to different training approaches, is really essential to get the dog to stop the barking because it can be a pretty benign thing that's pretty easily resolved all the way to, okay, guys, we're going to have to use management. He's not going to improve in this situation. And here's the work that's going to be involved to get him better in the yard just so people can make an informed decision about what they want to do. Some people end up saying, well, you know, for the dog who's really reactive, well, that's a lot of work. I think I'll do the bushes and just keep him in the house when my neighbor dog is out, you know, so perhaps a long winded answer to the question, but one of the reasons that with any sort of behavior there's not always going to be oh, for dogs who do this.

[Noah Michelson]

Do X. Yeah. You know what I love about this? Benji and I with our dog Jumi, we have a dog trainer, Kathy, and she's amazing. And so much of what she does, it's almost like she's Sherlock Holmes. And so we say he's doing this behavior and she does the same thing you just did. She try and reverse engineers back to, well, why is this happening? And can we address the fundamental thing that's happening and then we can fix that? Because we know why he's doing it. And that makes so much sense to me.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

It's therapy, essentially.

[Noah Michelson]

It's literally therapy for him and for us. But I feel like a lot of what you're probably going to tell us today is similar to that is we have to figure out the underlying issue and address that and not the symptom. Of the issue, maybe.

[Brittany]

Absolutely. Absolutely.

[Noah Michelson]

Okay. Also, because I am a co host of the show and I have a dog, a lot of these questions are mine because I'm just selfish. So here's a question that Benji and I always have. When we take Jumi out to go to the bathroom, he has to find the perfect spot to pee and to poop, especially poop. He does this thing we call the poop dance.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Oh, God, that's so cute.

[Noah Michelson]

It's really cute. But it's also kind of drives us crazy where he will sniff the ground and go back and forth over a stretch of like 6 or 8ft and have to find the perfect spot before he'll go. And it can take forever sometimes. Why do dogs do that? Or why does Jumi do that? What is happening when he's doing the poop dance? What are they looking for? And what signals to them it's time to go? And lastly, is there a way you can get them to go quicker? Are you just sort of stuck waiting for them to find the perfect spot?

[Brittany]

So that's an interesting question. And you know, this is very serious dog business. Finding the perfect spot. This is serious. And I would say, do we know exactly what they're looking for? No, I can't say that we know scientifically what they're looking for, but the dog's sense of smell is very, very important. And they get a lot of information from what they're smelling that we will never. Well, maybe one day. But currently we just can't even imagine all the information that they're getting and how they're interpreting that information. So my suspicion is sometimes they may be just looking for a spot to, quote, eliminate do toileting behaviors, pee and poop, to get rid of that stuff. And maybe they want an area that is not as soiled as other areas, whereas other times they may be looking to mark.

[Noah Michelson]

Right.

[Brittany]

In which case they're going to want to find an area that is more heavily dense, maybe with other dogs scents, etc. So this is something that may seem a little silly to us, but I'm envisioning, like, what if there were aliens looking at us in a public restroom?

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Totally. Yeah.

[Brittany]

The door. And we close the door. Like, why? You know, they don't know that, oh, this toilet is full. I don't want to use that one. So each species has their own sort of sensory stimuli that are going to sort of motivate their behavior. And I would say, you know, let the dog just sniff around. I don't. I. I don't know that I, you know, from the dog's perspective, no reason to hurry up. I would say if from a human perspective, if there are times where, hey, we need to sort of speed this up because I've got to get to work. Some dogs you can put on, like, a cue, like a hurry up cue. They really take a long time, right? So that when they hear that, they know have to go.

[Noah Michelson]

We found, like, a strip a block away from our. Our apartment that he loves to go on. So that it's. If we have to get to work or it's cold out and we want him to go quickly, we take him to his. His strip, and usually he'll go pretty quick.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

That's really funny. I was just thinking the same thing, Dr. Emily. Like, I also need to. When I'm in a public restroom, I need to choose where I'm gonna go. Like, I will hold everything in until I find a place that I feel is perfect for me. I feel that Jimmy and I have that in common.

[Noah Michelson]

Yes.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Let's take a quick break, and we'll be right back. This podcast is brought to you by eharmony, the dating app to find someone you can be yourself with.

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Oh, absolutely. I once was on a date, and I am a Knicks fan, but I was pretending to be this, like, hardcore sports girly because that's what the dude was into, and I am not a sports girly.

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It certainly did not.

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[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Welcome back to Am I Doing It Wrong? John asks. I have to leave my dog home alone several times a week. What's the best way to ensure he isn't upset when I'm gone? I worried he's just so bored. I mean, this is such a legitimate thing I think a lot of people deal with. Even with my cat, I'm just like, are you entertained? But obviously dogs are very different.

[Noah Michelson]

Right?

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

You know.

[Noah Michelson]

Right.

[Brittany]

Yeah. So the best thing, the absolute best thing that dog owners should do, maybe cat owners do, is to videotape their dog when they are left alone so we can see what they're doing. Because there are some Dogs who, you know, happily nap, like, and they're on their back and they're just snoozing. And they're clearly relaxed. They're not anxious, they're not bored. They're totally chilling, having the place to themselves. You know, there are other dogs where they may, like, be. Their body language is totally calm and relaxed, but they're looking around for stuff. They may be looking in the garbage. They may get up and pace, not in an anxious a way, but a way that would indicate, yeah, they. They need something to do, in which case there are lots of, like, foraging toys or things that they can be given to work on when they're left alone so they're not as bored. And. Or if time permits, those owners can, before leaving, you know, maybe can do like, a mental stimulation game with them and some training so that they're a little bit more worn out and less likely to get bored when left alone. And then the video would also tell us if it's not boredom and they're not relaxed, but if they actually seem anxious or frustrated when left alone. And then that is a welfare, of course, a welfare concern that should be addressed completely differently often than if they're just bored or, you know, obviously if they're just having a blast on their own, you know, no. No intervention needed.

[Noah Michelson]

Yeah.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

I'm kind of glad that I've chosen to do animal children and not human children because this is going to get expensive. Like, I. I am so ready to spend all of my money on, like, cameras and really fancy toys and food. Like, let's do this.

[Noah Michelson]

I say. I mean, Jumi is so expensive. Dr. Emily Berry asked, what's the best way to discourage a bad behavior that has already happened? Our dog Bucky pees or poops on the rug. What do we do when we find it later to emphasize that it's wrong and for him not to do it again? Is it not connected in his mind when there's a time gap? So I think this is, you know, people don't catch something and they want to make sure the dog knows that it was bad, but it's time is already.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Yes.

[Noah Michelson]

Yeah. What do you do in that situation?

[Brittany]

Yeah. So for dogs who house soil or cats, they will not make an association between soiling in the home and punishment. If there's a time delay, they just won't.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Okay.

[Brittany]

What will happen is they may connect the dots that, oh, when there's poop or pee in the home and my owner comes home, I know I'm going to get in trouble. So they start to get anxious. And we see a lot of pets developing, like, conflicting behaviors, like, they may start to spin when their owner comes home or something, because they know they're about to get in trouble. But maybe they don't know why, because they're not connecting the punishment to the act. So there should definitely be no punishment if there's time delay. There shouldn't even be punishment if there's no time delay. We want to handle this differently. If they feel the need to urinate or defecate, the actual act of doing that is, in and of itself rewarding you feel better. And it's a very natural thing. And so we go back to the question of why is the dog doing this? For the average dog, they just haven't learned yet what our vision is of an appropriate toilet for them. Maybe the dog goes outside and poops and pees. But, hey, this living room that's not used very much is also a lovely place to go. So sometimes we just have to implement training practices where the dog can learn what we want them to learn. And anytime you want to teach a child something or teach a dog something, the last thing we want to do is punish it. Which is why I say punishment shouldn't even be a factor. You know, as they're sitting there trying to poop, you don't want to be, you know, because it's like, what is this? It's just a natural function. So when you hear about, like, people trying to potty train their child, there's a reason they get M&Ms. After they, you know, do the right behavior. So in a situation like this, if you have a dog who you've had for a while but still hasn't gotten the hang of it, what we want to do is we want to provide constant supervision so that they don't have an opportunity to, quote, make a mistake from our perspective. Because every time they, quote, make that mistake again, it's just reinforced behavior. Yep, this felt good. I can go here. So for some people, that might mean they have to keep the dog on a leash attached to their belt or their waist, so the dog can't sneak off and go and the other thing or baby gate the dog in the same room. The other thing that that allows to happen is some dogs are giving very, very clear signals. They have to go out. They're at the door barking. That's easy, right? But there are plenty of dogs who give much more subtle indicators that they have to go. They might just start looking at the ground in a certain way. They might start sniffing a little bit. Behaviors that are so easy to miss when you're in your house, on a computer or cooking or whatever you're doing. And so by keeping the dog sort of tethered to you, not only does that min their ability to go off and eliminate, but it also gives the owner the opportunity to observe some of these more subtle signs. That is their dog saying, hey, I need to go now. And of course the the normal stuff of taking a dog out 15 first when waking up before bed, 15 minutes after eating, but also after playing because that can stimulate the GI tract to have to go. So we want to make sure we're giving the dog plenty of opportun to go out. And when they do eliminate outside, they should get a reward outside, not when the people come back in. I've had some of the cutest cases where the what the dog has learned is I'm going to ask to go outside, but then I'm going to hop right back inside. Because they've learned that the asking to go out and coming back in in their mind is what gives them the reward, you know?

[Noah Michelson]

Yes.

[Brittany]

So for a typical house soiling case, this is what we want to do. We don't want to punish, but I understand. It's so frustrating. You come home, there's poop, there's pee. Why aren't they getting this yet? You're frustrated. Take it out on something else. Just. But don't take it out on the dog because it will likely just make things worse and it's certainly not going to help.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Okay, let's take a quick break and we'll be right back. This episode is sponsored by Herz.

[Noah Michelson]

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[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

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[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

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[Brittany]

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[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Welcome back to Am I Doing It Wrong? I have a question about behavioral change, Sanjana asks. I'm interested in learning about dogs who are absolutely sweetie plums but become more aggressive or reactive or suspicious over time. She says, when I got Herman in February, he was going to every single human and offering his belly. But for the past couple of months, he's been barking and jumping on people.

[Brittany]

Yeah. So there are lots of different things that could be. This is a very common scenario that we see with dogs starting out to be sort of these, like, I'm okay with everything and then suddenly not being okay with things. Well, first we want to make sure there's nothing medical. So for a lot of dogs, if there's any sort of subtle dis. And I will say subtle discomfort, that can make them a little bit more irritable, less outgoing, less happy, more moody. And the reason I say subtle is because I know in. In my practice, we find a lot of dogs, young dogs. It's not people think, like, arthritis and hip problems is an old dog problem. It's not. It is in one year olds. So we, and even for dogs that we find discomfort as a source of a behavior issue. They're running, they're playing, they're not exhibiting pain in a way that it's dysfunctional, like, I'm not using my leg. Like it hasn't gotten to that degree. They're just uncomfortable, such that they're probably compensating with their gait and how they walk. And sometimes the way this comes out is behaviorally. So we really, first and foremost want to make sure there's no medical issue causing the change. So that's number one in terms of how dogs develop. When dogs are going through social maturity, which with our current state of knowledge, we believe is between the years of 1 and 4 years of age, with the smaller breeds being closer to 1 and 2, the larger breeds 3 and 4. What happens as dogs go through this maturing process is how they perceive the world changes. So while they were young, everything's good, everything's great. As they're becoming who they are as an adult, they're becoming much more selective or perceiving things differently. So what rings true to most people that makes them go, oh, I get it even more now, is when we think of human children, little kids, you know, three or whatever, they'll play with anyone, everyone's a friend, you know. And then as they get into their preteen teen years, it's like they become a lot more selective of who they're going to hang out with, what they like to do, what they don't like, like to do. So dogs can go through this same process, and some dogs will have Temperamental traits that make them much more vulnerable to not only being more selective, but like actively being barking, growling, or retreating. So if a dog has a temperamental trait of fearfulness, that can really make this social development period much more intense, or if they have the temperamental trait of having impulsivity issues, it can make things much more intense. I would say a third reason is, of course, if there was a traumatic event, somebody mistreated the dog, shot collar was used on a dog. We will see. Those things also can make dogs move in the wrong direction, so to speak.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

This makes so much sense.

[Noah Michelson]

It does. And this reminds me of the first time you came on the show and you were just talking about how dogs brains function like human brains in a lot of ways. And that's why antidepressants can work for dogs, because they work just like they do for humans. And I think we have to think about our dogs as actually.

[Brittany]

Yeah.

[Noah Michelson]

Having thoughts, having feelings and. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

I mean, I've always wondered this, and this is kind of abstract. Do dogs remember trauma? How much of it do they hold on to?

[Brittany]

Yep. So dogs have the same neuroanatomy that we do to hang on to emotionally significant events. And that makes sense evolutionarily.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Right.

[Brittany]

Because in order to survive, you have to be able to avoid things that may harm you and decrease your ability to reproduce.

[Noah Michelson]

Right.

[Brittany]

So I would say many species have the ability to remember negative things. Wow.

[Noah Michelson]

So interesting.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Yeah.

[Noah Michelson]

Speaking of reproducing, I love this question. This is from a friend of mine who wanted to be anonymous. She said, we recently adopted a new dog and he loves to lick our older dog's penis. She said, what's going on there? And is there any downside to this, or should I just let them go at it?

[Brittany]

Yeah, that's an interesting question. So I would say there are different reasons a dog may lick another dog's penis. You know, it may be that there are just so many good odors in there that they're attracted to, that it may have a taste that they particularly like. We want to make sure the dog doesn't have, like some sort of yeast infection or something in there that's making it more attractive to the other dog.

[Noah Michelson]

Right.

[Brittany]

So for the dog who's engaging in that behavior, they're likely smelling something or tasting something that. That they particularly find reinforcing. And the dog whose penis is being licked may. And if he's allowing this, he probably just thinks it feels good. It does feel good. So, I mean, if it's happening here and There, let it be like, I don't see an issue with it. The concern about it going on for too long or too frequently is again, it's possibly setting up for an infection in the penis that's being licked, potentially.

[Noah Michelson]

It's so funny though, because, like, I think as humans, we think of a behavior thing when we think about sex. And I love that you're like, well, it could just be practical. It might just taste good, it might just smell good, and maybe that's why they're doing it, which I just think is so crazy. Such a different thing.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Yeah.

[Noah Michelson]

I have a related question before we leave the bedroom. Is it bad for dogs to be in the bedroom when humans are having sex? I mean, when Benji and I have sex, we don't let Jumie on the bed, but he's in the bedroom. And I feel a little bit weird about it. And Jumi seems a little bit on edge, I would say. And I feel like he doesn't exactly know what we're doing.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Yeah.

[Noah Michelson]

And so what do you think from a behavior standpoint is that should people take the dog out of the room when they're being intimate or does it not matter?

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

This has been the conversation, by the way, at many dinner tables I've sat at.

[Brittany]

It's a question that I get actually often. But I would say for most dogs, it just doesn't matter if they're not bothered by it, it doesn't matter at all. You know, dogs don't have this hang up like people do about things. Right. They sort of live in the moment. And that type of stuff where we shouldn't have the dog in a room when people are having sex is when the dog tries to intervene.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Yeah.

[Brittany]

So there are lots of dogs who, you know, have a little bit of fomo. Just like when people are like hugging and the dog wants to join in. And so the dog is just like in a. In a happy way. Hey, what's going on here? And that just ruins the mood, typically. So sometimes just for very practical reasons. Yeah. Put the dog out in the hallway, give them a kong, whatever, you know, or give them a kong in the room. You know, that's just more of a nuisance thing for the people.

[Noah Michelson]

Yeah.

[Brittany]

There are also dogs who will get very distressed.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Right.

[Brittany]

Because of the sounds that are being made. And they may interpret some of those sounds as aggression.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Yeah.

[Brittany]

And then it's not fair to the dog to have them in the room for that. So that's what. I would also not have them in the room.

[Noah Michelson]

That makes sense.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Okay. I just have to say that my cat Gina, like, politely leaves the room.

[Noah Michelson]

She excuses herself.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

I swear to God, it's really funny. She's like, ah, this is hap. Something's happening. She leaves. She, like, hangs out.

[Noah Michelson]

She's a lady.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

And then she comes back.

[Noah Michelson]

I love that.

[Brittany]

She's like, she doesn't want to be disturbed.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

No. Cats are so different. She's like, ah, they're making noise.

[Noah Michelson]

I love that.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

It's hilarious. Okay, we have one from Tasha. Why is my dog basically a cat? She hates go. Speaking of Gina, she hates going outside. She doesn't like water. She has zero interest in dog like activities. Is she just a dachshund or was she born into the wrong species? That's so funny. She also says it does seem like most dogs have dog like qualities, but some definitely don't. I sometimes call Noah's baby Jumi a cat. Yeah. Because, you know, but I feel like, yeah, tell us what that means.

[Brittany]

Yeah. It's so just a personality thing. There are dogs who I'd rather sit on the back of the sofa and just hang out and sit and groom and not engage in many stereotypical dog behaviors. And that's totally normal and it's totally fine. It's just a different personality. You know, we can't say all dogs do this or all golden retrievers do this, because it's a little bit like saying all women. Like, there are individual differences, and that's normal and healthy and wonderful.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Yeah.

[Noah Michelson]

Lindsay wants to know what's the best and healthiest way to introduce your dog to a new baby. She was saying, should I let them sniff something like a hat from the hospital first, or is that a myth? And how do you make your dog feel loved during a chaotic time, like a newborn phase?

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

I'm very interested in this question too, because I feel like I watch a thousand tiktoks of dogs being very sweet and gentle, just naturally with babies. But I'm sure there's like a transition period, right?

[Brittany]

Yeah. This is. So let's just say we have your typical happy, go, lucky dog, you know, and we're having a baby and we want to set everyone up for success. I would absolutely encourage, first and foremost, even before the baby is born, if you know you're going to have some routine changes, like you're not going to want the dog in the nursery. I mean, everyone wants to do things differently, then go ahead and start making those rules in place before the baby comes. So it's not like all these changes at once. So that's number one. When the baby is born, I absolutely recommend people bringing something home from the hospital like a baby hat, dirty diaper for the dog to smell, just to make sure we don't see any concerning reactions. That's what we're really looking for. And then when they bring the baby home, some practical things to keep in mind is, you know, if mom has been away for a few days in the hospital, the dog might be really excited to see her and jump up on her. So we may have dad hold the baby out in the hallway or on the front step while mom goes in, says hello to the dog, gets that greeting sort of out of the way, and then mom can take the baby back. And I think one of the things I most strongly want to state is that there is no rush to have the dog and the baby sniff each other right away. If, if mom or dad are not comfortable with it, do not feel the pressure like it's this aha, you know, moment. It might take a week or three weeks before some people feel comfortable having this delicate little being near a dog's face, you know, to sniff. So people should just take their time with it when that happens, whether it's the first day or three weeks later. What I typically recommend, out of an abundance of caution, is that the individual with more maternal instincts is the one holding the baby. And they allow the dog to sniff the baby's rear end area where there's a diaper and clothing and a blanket so it's a little more padded. Again, just in case something happens, there's a little bit more padding. So that's typically how I recommend introductions. And that's for just your normal average dog. If a dog clearly has a lot of anxiety or has shown aggression to children in the past, that's a much more serious process for which people really need to seek qualified help for. Ideally a veterinary behaviorist.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

And you had a follow up about just like dogs and kids in general?

[Noah Michelson]

Yeah, I wonder. I mean, Jumi is the sweetest puppy in the world and he has been around Benji's nephews a lot. And one of them is four and one of them is a year. And he's always been so sweet with them, but I still get a little nervous about having a big dog. Jimmy's £60 by a child. Do you have thoughts in general about children and dogs? Even the sweetest dog, should we still be watching carefully?

[Brittany]

Yes, even with the sweetest dog, for a few reasons. And I actually, I wrote a children's book called Doggy do's and don'ts for this very particular reason. So even the sweetest dog, we don't know if and when they're not feeling well. And that can make a dog irritable. Right. So we don't want to encourage children to lay on the dog and things of that nature because it only takes once, you know. And the other thing is we really should be teaching. We're not doing this in our culture at all. And we need to do it much more is we need to teach children how to be around dogs, how to interact with them in a very, very safe and respectful way. Because let's say people have a dog in their home who is just a mush and never reacts negatively. And their kids are doing all sorts of things. If that child doesn't know how to interact, the minute they're sent over to a play date for a play date at someone else's house, they're much more inclined to do things like, oh, you know, I'm gonna go up and kiss your dog and hug your dog or.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Like pull its ear.

[Brittany]

Yeah, like, like, well, ears, or oh, there's a bone on the floor, let me get it for you. I've just seen too many terrible situations where a child from another home who can get away with stuff with their own dog, they then do that stuff to someone else's dog and it is not a good outcome. So just like we teach children some basic safety rules with like crossing the street, look both ways, we need to teach children not just for being respectful of dogs and dogs welfare, but for the, the safety of the children going out in this world. Look, you don't hug or kiss dogs. You just shouldn't do that. You want to kiss them, blow them a kiss. You know, you don't go up to a strange dog and put your hand over them. You don't if there's food on the ground or, but you don't pick it up. If they're working on a toy, leave them alone. If they're napping, leave them alone. Just good, fundamental, solid safety rules. Because these are the scenarios that I also put in the kids book because these are the most common scenarios for young children to be bitten. There are lots of ways to promote a fun and healthy relationship between kids and dogs. There are certain games and all sorts of things you can do, which if we're asking children not to do certain things, we want to make sure we can tell them what to do, of course, but it's, it's really essential. And so many dog bites to Kids could be reduced with just some of these basic cultural safety tips.

[Noah Michelson]

Yeah, I love that. I think that's really smart.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Yeah, me too. Oh, I love this one. What about if you wanna introduce a cat to the household? I have to say, like, there's so much stigma about cats and dogs, but my friends that have both, a lot of them have these beautiful, unique relationships that it's like, it took a little work sometimes, you know, with the trainer, et cetera, but they're like best friends.

[Noah Michelson]

We really wanna get a cat, but we are afraid that Jumi will eat him. And so we don't know how to go about it. So I'm really interested in your thoughts on this, doctor.

[Brittany]

Yeah. So there are dogs and cats who can be best of friends. There are dogs and cats who will just tolerate each other like uninterested roommates. And then there will be cases where it is risky to have them together because the dog may aggress towards the cat, kill the cat. I've also seen situations where the cat bullies the dog. So this sort of comes down to first, we sort of want to assess, like, the personality of the dog in the home. Like, does he have a history of going after cats? Does he have a history of having a lot of predatory aggression, wanting to chase things that are fast? Does he have other areas of aggression that may sort of just make us take a deep breath before doing this?

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Sure.

[Noah Michelson]

Dr. Emily, let me stop you right there. So Jumi, his dream was to be able to get a squirrel. When we go out on walks, he is so squirrel motivated. Does that mean that he would maybe have an issue with a cat or squirrels and cats totally different, and he could be just fine with the cat.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Such a good question.

[Brittany]

He could be just fine with the cat. However, where I would be worried is if your cat were to, like, run across the room fast. Because for a lot of dogs, that triggers a chase response. And even if the dog is chasing for fun and make capture the cat for fun, that can still seriously harm a cat.

[Noah Michelson]

Right?

[Brittany]

So I think as far as introducing, let's say your. Your dog is generally well mannered, but doesn't like squirrels or chases after squirrels, but you really want to get a cat. What we need to do is make sure that that resident dog has very solid cues that they listen to, stay, wait, go to place, et cetera. And then when and the cat, they're, you know, separated while they get used to each other's smells, we see how the dog responds to the cat because it's also I mean, some dogs are just so amazingly gentle with kittens. Like, they just know and some aren't. But we can sort of see how some of these behaviors, you know, through like, a gate or something, and then slowly introduce them and have your dog, you know, do a nice down stay. Well, maybe you play with the kitten and the kitten's doing some erratic movements to see can your dog cope with that.

[Noah Michelson]

Right.

[Brittany]

And maybe before getting a cat, you might want to try fostering to get a sense. So you're not committing yourself to a cat with the understanding that obviously safety is number one when fostering a kitty. You're not using them as test subjects. You're just trying to gauge safely. How's my dog around cats?

[Noah Michelson]

I have a suspicion when we see cats, when we're out walking him, like, he'll see a bodega cat or, you know, a cat in the wild, he. It seems like the cat is the one who's in charge.

[Brittany]

Yeah, yeah.

[Noah Michelson]

Jimmy doesn't go after it. Jimmy doesn't try to attack it. He seems kind of scared of it. And so I think it is probably different than squirrels. But I like the idea of fostering and sort of getting them together and seeing what happens before we actually commit.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Cat's witchy energy is my favorite thing about them.

[Noah Michelson]

Yeah. I mean, they are always the ones in control.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Yeah. Of me. Of everyone.

[Noah Michelson]

Of everyone. They own the room. Always. Maybe we should end on this one. I wonder about this one. Do you have any theories or does science have any theories about dog dreaming?

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Oh, I love that.

[Noah Michelson]

Do dogs dream? I mean, Jumi seems like he is, and it's so cute when he is dreaming or what I think is dreaming, his feet move.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Running.

[Noah Michelson]

Yeah, he's like running and he's, like, barking a little bit. So we tell ourselves that he's chasing squirrels in his dreams.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

So sweet.

[Noah Michelson]

What do we know about doggy dreaming?

[Brittany]

Yeah. So again, I would say dogs dream. While we can't ask them this or ask them to tell us about their dreams, we know they have the same, again, neuroanatomy that we do for dreaming. And dogs actually do have REM eye movements, rapid eye movements.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Okay.

[Brittany]

That's likely happening when they're dreaming. And they actually also have REM sleep disorders. So, like, if they're running in their sleep, some dogs will actually get up and run, and they run into a wall because they're still sleeping. So from my perspective, it's. To me, yes, dogs dream. And along those lines, they might even have some nightmares. So to Me, it's not really a question. If they do, it's enough evidence that I would. I think we need to say yes. They dream. Unless proven otherwise.

[Noah Michelson]

I love this episode.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

I know.

[Noah Michelson]

I just want to turn the podcast into an animal podcast.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

I do. I really do.

[Brittany]

They're fascinating. They're such lovely, lovely creatures.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

They enhance our lives so much, truly.

[Noah Michelson]

Thank you so much, Dr. Emily. You are just what the doctor ordered.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Oh, I love that. Yes, indeed. We're so thankful for you.

[Brittany]

My pleasure. My pleasure.

[Noah Michelson]

It's time for Better in five. These are your top five takeaways from this episode.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Number one, whenever you're dealing with an issue with your dog, investigate the underlying cause, not just the annoying symptom.

[Noah Michelson]

Number two, if you're worried about your dog being bored or distressed while you're out, try videotaping them to see what they're doing when you're not home.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

It's cute and stalkerish. Number three, Dr. Emily says that every dog has its own personality and may not behave like a stereotypical quote unquote dog does, and that's just fine.

[Noah Michelson]

Number four, the best way to train a dog is to promote healthy habits and reward them. Don't punish them, no matter what the situation is.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

And number five, if you're bringing a baby or a cat home, it's important to be very thoughtful and strategic of how to introduce them. And take it slow. Okay. Noah, as a dog owner, you know a lot already, but did you learn anything new from this episode?

[Noah Michelson]

I learned so much. I love these episodes. Number one, I'm gonna let Jumi poop whenever and wherever he wants. Well, not wherever. Can't poop in the house. But I'm gonna stop trying to hurry him along.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Sure.

[Noah Michelson]

He needs that perfect spot. He should have it. And number two, I'm not gonna feel guilty about having sex in front of him. I love what she said about, like, this idea of FOMO and how they might wanna join in. That's never happening, but. Yeah. No, there's so many things I thought were really interesting and I could listen to her talk just all day long. What about you? Did you learn anything?

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Yeah, I mean, I think I was, like, spiritually healed in a way to learn how similar dogs and humans are. Yeah. I felt like psychologically, the things, the tools that we use in therapy, we can use with other animals too.

[Noah Michelson]

Yeah.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

It was beautiful. And healing.

[Noah Michelson]

They're not that different than us.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

No.

[Noah Michelson]

And yet very different than us.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

I know. Well, significantly. Just better.

[Noah Michelson]

Better.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Yeah.

[Noah Michelson]

Amen. Anyway, until next time, if as long as there are things to get wrong, we're going to be right here to.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Help you do them Better get at me dog.

[Noah Michelson]

Do you have something you think you're doing wrong? Email [e-mail] and let us know.

[Brittany]

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