Podcast Summary: Am I Doing It Wrong?

Episode: The Secret To Making Friends As An Adult
Hosts: Raj Punjabi-Johnson & Noah Michelson
Guest: Dr. Marisa Franco, Psychologist & Author of Platonic
Date: January 1, 2026

Overview

This episode delves into the challenge of making and maintaining friendships as adults—a subject the hosts reveal is their most requested topic. With the help of Dr. Marisa Franco, a psychologist and author of Platonic: How the Science of Attachment Can Help You Make and Keep Friends, the discussion explores the loneliness epidemic, why building adult friendships is so uniquely difficult, and actionable tips for forging and deepening connections. The tone is honest and relatable, mixing research with personal anecdotes, and the conversation is punctuated with vulnerability, humor, and practical insights.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Loneliness Epidemic and Its Disproportionate Impact

[06:00]

• Stats: Since the early 2000s, four times as many people report having no friends, with men particularly affected (five times increase).
• Who’s Most Affected: Marginalized populations—Black, Hispanic, non-college-educated, lower income, people with disabilities—experience sharper declines in face-to-face interaction.
• Technology’s Role: Technology (starting with TV in the 1950s, now smartphones) has shifted leisure time from communal to solo, increasing loneliness.

  "Before the tv, people spent their leisure time around other people. Then they spend it in their four walls." - Dr. Franco [06:41]

2. Why Friendships Matter for Health & Well-being

[08:59]

• Physical & Mental Health: Meaningful friendships release oxytocin (“the fountain of youth”), and having a large, diverse social network increases longevity more than diet and exercise combined.
• Doctors Miss This: Physicians ask about habits like exercise and smoking, but not about friendship—despite its major impact on health.
• Connection Reduces Stress: Even basic health responses (cold immunity, vaccine effectiveness) are improved by social bonds.

  "When we're disconnected, it activates the stress system in our bodies." – Dr. Franco [09:45]

3. Why Making Friends as an Adult Is Difficult

[10:22]

• Childhood vs. Adulthood: Children have built-in structures—repeated, unplanned interaction and shared vulnerability (school, recess)—that organically foster friendship.
• Adult Life: Lacks these natural environments, especially as workplaces become less social or remote.
• Effort is Essential: “The more people thought friendship happened without effort, the more lonely they were years later.” – Dr. Franco [11:21]
• Intentionality Required: Adult friendships demand proactive effort, not passivity.

4. Practical Strategies for Making Friends

[11:59]-[14:05]

• Reconnect: Reaching out to old contacts pays off ("you already have trust established").

  "Every seven years, we lose about half our friends...not because we hate each other...just life happens." – Dr. Franco [12:00]

• Mere Exposure Effect: Repetition builds closeness; join recurring groups instead of one-off events.

  "Research finds it's a 20% difference between people you're not exposed to and people you are exposed to and how much you like them, even if you haven't interacted with them." – Dr. Franco [13:18]

• Avoid Covert Avoidance: Being physically present is not enough; engage mentally and emotionally.
• How to Approach: Use the “insight and question” method: comment on a shared circumstance, then ask a follow-up (e.g., “First time here—have you all been?”).

5. Deepening and Maintaining Friendships

[21:52]

• Repotting Relationships: Deepen bonds by changing the interaction context (move from work/book club to dinner, etc.).

  "Otherwise, if the book club ends, our friendship ends." – Dr. Franco [21:55]

• Vulnerability: Essential for intimacy, especially challenging for straight men due to socialization; someone has to “go first” in showing emotional openness.

  “For friendship to happen, someone has to be brave. So be brave.” – Dr. Franco quoting her niece [38:10]

• Appointments Matter: Regular meet-ups or ‘friend appointments’ help prioritize friendship in busy lives.

  “I love it. Especially people that live in big cities…It's a way to say, I prioritize.” – Dr. Franco [26:59]

6. Reciprocity & Navigating Friend Dynamics

[31:08]

• Listener Question: What if you’re the only one making plans?
  • Sometimes, the other person is anxious or afraid, not disinterested.
  • Address gently and honestly; understand people are on different timelines.
• Categories of Friends: “Good company” vs. “good friends”—the latter should show up for each other reliably and intentionally.

  “Even if you really like someone, that might not be enough to build a friendship with them. They have to be willing, just like you are, to be a good friend in the connection too.” – Dr. Franco [34:56]

7. Digital vs. In-Person Friendships

[36:49]

• Online Friends: Valid, but in-person connection is irreplaceable for mental and physical well-being.

  “I wouldn’t say that online friendships don’t matter... What would be the issue is when you’re displacing in-person interaction with just online.” – Dr. Franco [37:07]

• Best Use of Technology: As a bridge to real-life interactions, not a replacement.

  “Use it as a bridge...to connect in person.” – Dr. Franco [41:12]

8. Phone Culture and Embracing Discomfort

[38:43]

• Phones as Crutches: Reliance on phones reduces connection and comfort with social discomfort.
• Growth Through Discomfort: Building friendships means tolerating the unease of early interactions.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Raj: “I know that when I hang out with my girlies, I come away feeling like I just took some kind of drug. Like, I feel so good.” [08:32]
• Dr. Franco: “When we feel connected, we release oxytocin...having a large, diverse social network increases our longevity more than exercise and diet almost combined.” [08:59]
• Noah: “It’s not just hard for men to be vulnerable, but we’re also living in a climate...where there are all these things baked into our culture that makes it really hard for people to also want to open up.” [25:53]
• Dr. Franco: “The only way you’ll know is if you actually try it...if you never test that assumption, you can never change that assumption.” [28:12]
• Dr. Franco’s niece: “For friendship to happen, someone has to be brave.” [38:10]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Loneliness epidemic & tech's role: [06:00] – [08:10]
• Friendship & Health: [08:59] – [10:01]
• Why it’s hard to make friends as an adult: [10:22] – [11:21]
• How to make friends (strategies): [11:59] – [14:05]
• Digital friendships & using tech wisely: [36:49] – [41:12]
• Vulnerability and men’s friendships: [23:02] – [25:53]
• Listener question: One-sided initiation: [31:08] – [32:56]
• Difference between “good company” and “good friends”: [33:47] – [34:56]
• Dr. Franco’s parting advice (“be brave”): [38:10]

Better in Five: Top Takeaways

([42:43] – [43:29])

1. Repetition is Key: Familiarity breeds comfort—recurring encounters create bonds.
2. Level Up: Deepen friendships by meeting in new contexts.
3. Tech as a Bridge: Use technology to facilitate, not replace, in-person connection.
4. Invest and Show Up: “Good company” isn’t enough—reliable presence and effort matter.
5. Be Brave: Someone has to take the first step. Vulnerability is essential.

Final Reflections

The episode closes with the reminder that adult friendships require intentionality, open communication, and bravery—even if it’s uncomfortable. The digital age creates obstacles but also valuable opportunities. And, as Dr. Franco notes, taking risks and truly showing up (in all senses) will almost always be worth it.

“It’s hard out there... the more people we have who are rooting us on that we can root on, I think the healthier we’re going to be in so many ways.”
— Noah Michelson [44:29]