The Truth About The Current Protein Craze — Here's What You Need To Know

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Am I Doing It Wrong?"

Episode: The Truth About The Current Protein Craze — Here's What You Need To Know

Hosted by: Raj Panjabi Johnson & Noah Michelson
Guest: Elizabeth Dunn (Food writer, creator of "Consumed" Substack)
Date: January 8, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode delves into the cultural obsession with protein in modern diets. Hosts Raj and Noah, joined by food writer Elizabeth Dunn, break down the science of protein, recommended intakes, plant vs. animal sources, the pitfalls of the "protein craze," supplement myths, and the psychological significance of food routines. The three unpack trends, health implications, and common anxieties—offering listeners clarity on how to approach their own protein needs without succumbing to misinformation or unnecessary worry.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

What Is Protein and Why Do We Need It?

• Elizabeth Dunn explains that protein is a macronutrient (alongside fats and carbs) that provides energy and crucial amino acids for the body's myriad functions:

  • Builds and repairs muscle, skin, hair, and nails
  • Aids hormone production and enzyme function
    [03:19] "Protein provides both energy and ... many of the building blocks of your body." — Elizabeth Dunn

• There are 20 amino acids; our bodies make 11, but 9 (the "essential amino acids") must come from food.
  [04:14] "A complete protein ... has all nine of those essential amino acids." — Elizabeth Dunn

Complete vs. Incomplete Proteins

• Complete proteins: Mostly animal sources (meat, dairy, eggs); contain all essential amino acids.
• Incomplete proteins: Many plant sources; may lack one or more essential amino acids, but variety in diet can overcome this.
• Soy is highlighted as a plant protein that's nearly as bioavailable and "complete" as animal sources.
  [10:54] “Soy is sort of the top dog when it comes to plant proteins.” — Elizabeth Dunn

How Much Protein Do We (Really) Need?

• The U.S. federal guideline is 0.8 grams per kilogram of body weight per day for most adults.
• It's not as much as many think; a cup of Greek yogurt can fulfill much of a daily requirement.
• Some groups need more: children, teens/young adults, adults over 65, and serious athletes.
• For more active folks: 1.0–1.5g/kg may be warranted.
  [05:40] "The short answer is yes," says Dunn, on trusting the guideline.
  [07:40] "You have to be really honest with yourself—are you an endurance athlete ... or walking your dog?" — Elizabeth Dunn

The Psychological Side of Protein

• Many people use "emotional support protein"—seeking out protein-rich foods for feelings of wellness and strength, even if not strictly necessary.
• Hosts agree there is psychological satisfaction in routines like post-workout protein, even if the physiological need isn’t pressing.
  [08:27] "I really feel like I have emotional support protein. I feel really good when I eat yogurt." — Raj Panjabi Johnson

Where Do We Get Protein? (It’s Everywhere!)

• Animal sources: meat, dairy, eggs (all complete).
• Plant sources: beans, lentils, nuts, seeds, whole grains (also significant contributors).
• Protein is present (though sometimes in small amounts) in nearly all foods—grains, vegetables, even strawberries.
  • [09:43] "Whole grains are a sleeper, huge source of protein. And not just quinoa ... oats, seeds, pumpkin ... it adds up a lot faster than you think." — Elizabeth Dunn

Plant vs. Animal Protein: Is One Better?

• Meat protein is often more bioavailable, but a varied plant-based diet provides all necessary amino acids.
• It is a myth that vegetarians/vegans can’t get enough protein if they’re intentional about variety.
  [12:00] Noah recounts a friend's stroke recovery on a vegetarian diet, supported by professional advice.

Downsides of Too Much Meat & the Processed Meat Problem

• Diets high in meat—especially red or processed meats—are linked to increased cancer risk, diabetes, and all-cause mortality.

• Processed meats (sausage, deli meats, “meat sticks”) are Group 1 carcinogens (proven to cause cancer).
  [15:02] “Processed meats are Group 1 carcinogens ... we know that they cause cancer in humans.” — Elizabeth Dunn

• Meals heavy in protein (especially meat) might displace other nutrients, like fiber and phytonutrients.

  • [16:41] "What are you not getting in your diet that would be a lot healthier?" — Elizabeth Dunn

On Protein Supplements: Powders & Added Protein in Foods

• Whole foods are preferable for most people. Protein powders are sensible mainly for high-performance athletes.

• If you’re not highly active, extra protein “is like delivering bricks to a closed building site”—your body won’t use them.
  [17:57] "If you’re not doing all the exercise to use that protein, it’s kind of for naught." — Elizabeth Dunn

• Added protein foods (e.g., “protein cold foam,” protein popcorn) are driven by marketing, not science or necessity.

• Supplement industry is largely unregulated. Be wary of quality and “additives.”

  • [25:31] “Protein is something that it is pretty easy to just kind of inject into a bunch of products ... easy to market around.” — Elizabeth Dunn

Does Timing Matter? (Protein After a Workout)

• Optimal timing (the "anabolic window") mostly matters for elite athletes. For most, just meeting daily needs is sufficient.
  [21:07] "As long as you’re getting the right amount in a 24-hour period ... not something that should be taking up headspace." — Elizabeth Dunn

Protein Trends: Where Did the Craze Start & Why Is It Peaking Now?

• High-protein diets grew with Atkins/South Beach in the '90s (for weight loss and muscle).
• Social media and wellness influencers have amplified and distorted protein’s perceived "magic."
• The pandemic and GLP-1 (Ozempic) drugs heightened interest: people want simple health solutions.
  • [27:45] “There’s a lot of factors ... turn[ing] this trend ... into overdrive.” — Elizabeth Dunn

Is Fiber the Next Big Thing?

• Fiber deficiency is the real epidemic: 95% of Americans lack enough. Far more dire than protein deficiency.
• Real health gains may come from focusing on varied fiber intake, supporting gut health and the microbiome.
  • [28:18] "Fiber is actually a more legit thing to be obsessed with than protein ..." — Elizabeth Dunn

Can You Get Too Much Protein?

• For most, excess protein is not directly harmful unless they have pre-existing kidney problems or eat extreme amounts.
• Real risk: squeezing out other nutrients by chasing high protein.
  • [30:47] “The biggest potential risk is ... you’re not getting enough of the other things you need ... not enough plants in your diet.” — Elizabeth Dunn

Protein in Global/Cultural Context

• Traditional diets globally (including in South Asia, Japan, much of Europe) are not high in animal protein.
• The real balance issue is often too many refined carbs, not protein scarcity.
  • [34:10] “Not that many traditional diets are super protein heavy.” — Elizabeth Dunn

Misguided Protein Trends & Dangers

• Viral trends like eating “bricks of Parmesan” or following carnivore diets can be harmful (cardiac risk, nutrient imbalance).
• The “carnivore diet” is particularly worrisome—unproven for health, bad for heart, and bad for the planet.
  • [36:40] “That’s the big one ... the carnivore thing.” — Elizabeth Dunn

Protein Powder Safety Headlines (e.g., Lead Contamination)

• Some panic around lead in protein powders is overblown; levels are often far below actual danger for non-pregnant adults.
• Overall, minimizing reliance on supplements reduces risk from contaminants due to less concentration of environmental toxins.

Community, Wellness, and the Big Picture

• Hyperfixation on individual nutrients can become isolating or selfish—real health is also about shared meals, cultural traditions, and community well-being.
• Nutrition habits are a "marathon, not a sprint."
  • [41:00] "At some point it really becomes really antisocial and a little bit selfish ... There's a limit to how much we should really be thinking about our nutritional choices versus our communities." — Elizabeth Dunn

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Eating protein if you’re not doing a lot of exercise is like delivering bricks to a closed building site.” — Elizabeth Dunn [17:57]

• “Whole grains are a sleeper, huge source of protein ... oats, seeds, pumpkin...it adds up a lot faster than you think.” — Elizabeth Dunn [09:43]

• “There isn’t really, like, an epidemic of protein deficiency happening.” — Elizabeth Dunn [10:19]

• “Processed meats are Group 1 carcinogens ... we know that they cause cancer in humans.” — Elizabeth Dunn [15:02]

• “So much of the wellness sphere is about making us feel bad ... not thinking about community.” — Noah Michelson [41:19]

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Important Timestamps

| Segment | Timestamp | Key Points / Takeaways | |-------------------------------|-----------|--------------------------------------------------------------------| | Core functions of protein | 03:19 | Building blocks for tissues, hormones, enzymes | | Complete vs. incomplete prot. | 04:14 | Essential amino acids, animal vs. plant proteins | | Recommended intake | 05:10 | 0.8g/kg, guidelines, who might need more | | Protein in unexpected foods | 09:43 | Grains, seeds, veggies add up—the “hidden” protein | | Animal vs. plant pros/cons | 10:41 | Absorption, completeness, how vegetarians manage | | Processed meat risks | 15:02 | Cancer risk, sodium, public health relevance | | Supplement/added protein myth | 17:57 | Overuse, “emotional support protein,” supplement industry warning | | Timing of protein intake | 21:07 | No need to rush, “anabolic window” isn’t crucial for most people | | Origin of protein hype | 25:53 | Diet industry, influencers, pandemic, GLP-1 drugs | | Fiber vs. protein obsession | 28:18 | Americans much more deficient in fiber, gut health, diversity focus | | Safety and balance | 30:47 | Protein excess usually harmless, real risk—displacing other foods | | Global/cultural perspective | 34:10 | Most traditional diets not protein-centric, cultural balance | | Most dangerous trends | 36:40 | Carnivore diets’ risks, viral “protein hacks” on TikTok | | Protein powders & contamination | 37:53 | Lead in powders, context, whole foods provide safety | | Food, community, and wellness | 41:00 | Holistic health, sharing meals, not obsessing over diet minutiae |

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Top Five Takeaways (from "Better in Five" Segment) [43:47]

1. Protein Needs are Based on Weight: For most people, this is about half a gram per pound, but everyone’s requirement is different.
2. Protein Is Found in Lots of Foods: Meat isn’t the only source; vegetables and grains can offer plenty for those with mindful diets.
3. Whole Foods > Supplements for Most People: Prioritize real food; supplements/powders fit only for special health or athletic needs.
4. Big Picture Perspective: Don’t obsess just over protein; fiber may be more important and is widely lacking.
5. Balance and Community Matter Most: Don’t let dietary focus come at the expense of social, cultural, or overall well-being.

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Final Thoughts

The protein craze is fueled by hype, marketing, and half-truths more than actual need for most Americans. Getting enough protein is surprisingly easy with a varied diet, and worrying about maximizing intake—especially through supplements or highly processed foods—usually does more harm than good. Social, psychological, and communal aspects of eating are as important as the nutrients themselves.

Elizabeth Dunn’s Core Advice:
"It’s a marathon, not a sprint with all of your nutrition habits ... focus on trying to make pretty good choices most of the time." [41:30]

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For Listeners Who Haven’t Tuned In

• This episode dispels protein myths, offers science-backed advice, emphasizes balance, and recognizes the psychological comfort people get from “doing something”—even if it’s not all necessary. If you’re worried about protein, odds are, you’re doing just fine.

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[End of Summary]

Transcript

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Foreign.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Hi everyone. I'm Raj Panjabi Johnson, Head of identity content at HuffPost.

[Noah Michelson]

And I'm Noah Michaelson, head of HuffPost Personal.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Welcome to Am I Doing It Wrong? The show that explores the all too human anxieties we have about trying to get our lives right.

[Noah Michelson]

Hi Raj, how are you? I'm good. I have a question for you.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Okay.

[Noah Michelson]

Do you think that you're doing protein wrong?

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Oof, that's a loaded one as usual. I'm definitely doing it wrong. And I'll tell you why. I've recently started to play around with weights more in the gym. So I know I need it and I know I want to feel strong. I don't exactly know what I should be eating. I only know a few staple things. I'm like doing the chicken and the yogurt and stuff, but I need more information.

[Noah Michelson]

There's also this idea that you're not getting enough. I think we keep hearing that everywhere from the Internet to, you know, it's.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Just like I. I believe it.

[Noah Michelson]

You need more protein.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

That's right. What about you?

[Noah Michelson]

I don't know if I believe it. I am newly ish vegetarian and last couple years. So I've been thinking about protein. Am I getting enough? How am I getting it? And Then for this episode, I was, like, doing some research, and I have to say, I'm just more confused than I was before because there's so many different people who have so many different opinions about it. I'm not sure what to believe. So I want. I want to know more.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Luckily, we have a good egg here with us today. Elizabeth Dunn is a food writer and has a substack called Consumed, which is all about helping navigate the complexities of being an eater in the 21st century.

[Noah Michelson]

Let's dig in.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

Ooh.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Liz, thank you so much for being here. We're so excited to have you.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

Thank you so much for having me.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

All right, let's start at the very beginning. What is protein exactly? I say it 20 times a day. And what does it do for our bodies?

[Elizabeth Dunn]

Okay, so protein is a macronutrient. Other macronutrients are fats and carbohydrates. So those are the three. All three are sources of energy for our bodies. But protein is different than fat and carbohydrates because in addition to being a source of energy, it also is a source of amino acids, which is what protein is made of. And amino acids go into a zillion functions in your body, so they help build and repair tissues like muscle and skin and hair and nails. They also help you create hormones. They are parts of enzymes. So they're like. Protein provides both energy and all the building blocks of your or many of the building blocks of your body.

[Noah Michelson]

Right. And I kept hearing about complete protein versus incomplete protein. And that has something to do with amino acids, right? Oh, yeah.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

Okay. So our body. We're gonna go. We're gonna go right into the science.

[Noah Michelson]

Let's just get right into it.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

Just dive right in. So there are 20amino acids that your body needs in order to do all of its things. Eleven of them we can actually make ourselves. So you don't have to eat them, but nine of them we have to get from food. So when you hear about a complete protein, it means it's a protein that has all nine of those essential amino acids. So some proteins, like, I think every meat that I can think of is a complete protein. There are vegetable protein. And I think we're gonna dive deep into the meat versus vegetable protein thing. But there are complete proteins. There are incomplete proteins. Incomplete prote don't necessarily have all nine of those amino acids, or sometimes they have all nine, but some of them just in, like, very small quantities.

[Noah Michelson]

Right?

[Elizabeth Dunn]

Yeah.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

How much protein? You know, when we're just eating every day or drinking Because Lord knows it's in everything. How much should we be consuming? And I hear that there's like a weight ratio. So think about, you know, how much you weigh.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

This is what everybody needs to know or wants to know. So, okay, there is a federal guideline for how much protein we need, and that is relative to your body weight.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Okay.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

So the federal recommended daily allowance is 0.8 grams per kilogram of body weight. Again, we're going, we're going right into the math and the science. So for me that is like, I think it's like 33 grams of protein a day if I'm following that formula.

[Noah Michelson]

Which is not that much.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

It's really not that much.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Do we trust this guideline?

[Elizabeth Dunn]

The short answer is yes. Okay. I think there are some rumors out there that the guideline is just like how much protein you need to avoid dying and your body breaking down, which is not true. It's how much protein the average adult person who is moderately active needs to just maintain their health. So many nutritionists still buy into that formula, which like you said, it's not really that much. I mean, I'm a small person, so other people will need more. But 33 grams of protein, that's like a cup of Greek yogurt. And that's assuming you're getting no protein in anything else. So that's like very, very achievable. Now there's sort of an increasing movement to think about having a little bit more than that minimum. And there are certain groups that definitely do benefit from more than that, like that recommended Daily Allowance. So some of those groups are for one, kids. Kids need like about one gram per kilogram, so they need a little bit more young adults. So that like adolescent to early 20s, your body's still growing and changing. You're still, you know, building muscle. You're still, you're like more, more active. And so that group also will maybe need a little bit more. And then also older people like so 65+ are going to need more or. And the other category that I didn't mention is let's say you're a middle aged person, but you're super active. Like you are an endurance athlete. You lift a lot of weights. You're also going to need and want a lot more protein. But I would say if the 0.8 just seems like it's way too little, you are not comfortable with that amount. The more sort of, I guess like moderate. Another way to think about it, if you're more active or in those other categories is one to one and a half would be sort of on the safe side of how much protein you need. There are definitely people on the Internet who are recommending way more than that. I think you guys are probably familiar. Familiar with the protein trend.

[Noah Michelson]

It's wild. And I want to get into all of that, but, yeah, from what I've seen, most of us are not endurance athletes. We don't have that need. I mean, Raj, you obviously are, but.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

Yeah, the craziest is going to be a big theme in our conversation today is when you really, like, do some soul searching. Are you a person who's, like, slamming the weights and running 20 miles a day, or are you a person who's walking your dog and doing some Pilates and, like, being really honest with yourself about that, because that is going to really influence your actual protein.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

I just have to address a phenomenon that I am experiencing. Like, it's emotional support protein. I'm trying to be a more active person. I really am. And, you know, I just turned 41. I'm really excited about, like, I want to be a hot girl with muscles, and I have goals. Right. So I'm not an endurance athlete. I'm working out five, six days a week. I am lifting weights. Oh, that's a lot.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

Actually. Quite a lot.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Okay. Thank you so much. They're very. They're very lightweight.

[Noah Michelson]

That's.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

That's okay. I'm proud of you. I think that's a lot.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

I really. I do feel like I have emotional support protein. I feel really good when I eat yogurt.

[Noah Michelson]

Yeah.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

And I do. I don't add. We'll get into the protein powder and stuff, but I try not to add. I'm trying to get it from, like, turkey, chicken, you know, lentils, which have carbs, too. But I do think that's a thing that's happening. Like, a lot of us are feeling kind like they want to have more protein. Not really sure why, but what I.

[Noah Michelson]

Was reading, because I. For this episode, I know nothing about protein, really. So I did some research, and they were just saying most of us are getting a lot of protein just in our regular diet, and there isn't the need to really, like, supplement it unless you do have one of these crazy needs for it or you're pregnant or, you know. But, like, for the most part, like you said, if you're having a cup of Greek yogurt for breakfast, that's a lot of protein right there.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

Yeah. So part of the problem is we talk about. We're talking about protein Protein's a macronutrient, not a food. But we're talking about it like it's got it.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Right.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

We often talk about, like, proteins on your plate. Right. In a way that we maybe don't talk about fats in the same way we're talking. So people kind of mentally think, okay, well, my sources of protein are gonna be like, steak and chicken and maybe tofu. And there's actually protein in almost everything you eat.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

There's protein in strawberries. I mean, not very much. But if you're only thinking about the things you eat that are really dense sources of protein, then you're maybe gonna feel like, oh, well, I don't eat, like, I don't eat that much meat or I don't eat that many eggs. But you're actually getting, like, whole grains are sleeper, huge source of protein. And not just quinoa. Not just talking about quinoa. Oats have a lot of protein in them. Things like seeds, like hemp seeds and chia seeds. Pumpkin protein. Yeah, all those things. So you really. It adds up a lot faster than you think. And there isn't really like an epidemic of protein deficiency happening.

[Noah Michelson]

Right.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

There aren't a lot of people who are, like, protein deficient when it comes.

[Noah Michelson]

To the difference between animal protein and non animal protein. Is there a general idea that, like, one is better than the other? I guess, because we talked about how animal protein's usually a complete protein.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

Yeah.

[Noah Michelson]

But for the most part, if you're eating enough non animal proteins, you're gonna get all the amino acids anyways. Right.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

The consensus is that meat is generally considered to be a superior source of protein because the protein is more what they call bioavailable, which means that you. Your body is gonna absorb it really efficiently.

[Noah Michelson]

Interesting.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

So it is true that meats generally have like, quote, unquote, higher quality protein. Not only are they complete, but they're more bioavailable. Soy is also a very, like, almost as bioavailable as meat. So soy is sort of the top dog when it comes to plant proteins. But there is definitely a gradation in terms of how digestible and available that protein is to your body based on where it comes from.

[Noah Michelson]

Right. Yeah. I'm veggie.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

Yeah.

[Noah Michelson]

So I get a lot of my protein from soy beans, nuts.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

Yep.

[Noah Michelson]

And I still eat dairy, so I get a lot of it there too.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

Yeah. If you eat dairy, do you eat eggs? I do, yeah. And so there's a lot of. I mean, eggs are just a total. I mean, Nutritional powerhouse. So if you can eat eggs, if you can eat dairy, you can get a lot of protein there. But as long as you're making a concerted effort as a vegetarian to eat a lot of different plants, like you're, you're going to get as much protein as you need. For sure.

[Noah Michelson]

Yeah, I saw that. A cup of spinach, I think has, I wrote this down. 5 grams of protein in it. A cup of raw peas has 8 grams of protein.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

Broccoli. Broccoli is heavier.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

One of the highest ones.

[Noah Michelson]

Wild rice. I hate wild rice, but it got 6 grams of protein in a cup.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

I have a really close friend who experienced a stroke when she was 23 and she was vegetarian. And she straight up asked her doctor, like, as I'm building my muscle mass back and you know, relearning a lot of things in my body, do I need to eat meat? And she started and she hated it. And her doctor ultimately said the exact same thing. You did that. Like, yes, animal protein is sometimes more bioavailable, but you don't need to like you. If you eat balance, you don't. And she ultimately is still vegetarian and she did what she needed to do.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

Right.

[Noah Michelson]

But you can do it.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

Yeah. Yeah.

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[Elizabeth Dunn]

There definitely is, I think, the kind of perception online that if you're going to be, if you're going to live a high protein life that involves a lot of meat. What you don't hear talked about a lot in those contexts is the downsides to eating a lot of meat.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Totally.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

So the data is Very, very clear. I mean, like decades of large scale, reputable studies that show that the higher in meat your diet is, the higher your chances are of getting cancer, of getting diabetes, of all cause mortality, meaning just basically dying younger. And so there really are pretty big health consequences to eating a very meat heavy diet, especially a very red meat heavy or processed meat heavy diet. So you have to sort of think for yourself, is that trade off between the quality of the protein, the bioavailability of the protein going to be enough to, to make up for the potential health consequences of really eating too much meat?

[Noah Michelson]

That's such a good point.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

That thing about processed meat, right. Like most of the meat that is available to us for what we can afford is not being like, you know, it's not from our backyard. There's stuff in it.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

Yeah, the whole. One of the fastest growing snack categories right now is meat sticks.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Oh my God.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

You know, like chops and things. And obviously the protein trend is driving that. They also are very delicious. What really surprises me, especially because we're in this very health and nutritious conscious moment right now, is that people aren't aware of the fact that processed meats are Class 1 carcinogens, Group 1 carcinogens. So that's a World Health Organization classification and it means that we know that they cause cancer in humans. And so it's like, this is really something that I think more people should think about.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

You know why I think about that stuff? Because a lot of my friends will have like, and if it's turkey, it appears to be really healthy, but it's also a salt bomb. But genetically, like with South Asians, I am, it's like dodgeball with all the conditions for me. I'm like, oh my God. Diabetes, ah. High cholesterol, like, it's all in my family. So I try to be more aware of these things. I want the protein, but I'm like, I'm, I am now more careful about the beef and pork, like moderation, moderation.

[Noah Michelson]

But this is something we talk about in the show all the time. No matter what the topic is, like, you have to live holistically. Like, you can't do any one thing crazily because everything else gets out of whack. So even here, if you have too much protein from red meats or whatever. Yeah, you have to worry about fat, you have to worry about all these.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

Other things and you also have to worry about what you're not getting in your diet. Like, what are you eating? Because we're all. There's A maximum number of calories that we're going to consume in a day. And those calories are going to come from somewhere. And so if they're coming from protein, from, you know, protein powders or any number of protein things that are maybe not the healthiest, the question is, what do you not have in your diet that would be a lot healthier?

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

What is it replacing? Yeah, yeah, let's get into the protein powders. So are you telling me that it's better to get protein from food, like, you know, more whole foods, than adding like, say away protein powder to your shake?

[Elizabeth Dunn]

I am telling you that. So I want to come back to this idea of like, are you a weightlifter or are you a regular person? So a lot of the pro protein energy on the Internet, I think from looking at it and kind of studying the origins, originated with the fitness and bodybuilding and to some degree the longevity world. So like Andrew Huberman, Peter Aiz. Right. And so let's take Peter Attias specifically. Like, he's one of these people that really promotes a very high amount of protein in your diet. What I think crucially a lot of people miss about that is that another part of his kind of theory of ideal diets and longevity revolves around how active you are. So he thinks people should be doing 150 minutes of cardio a day in zone two, and you're doing zone five cardio, and you're doing leg days and arm days. You are gonna need a lot of protein to support all of that. But if you're not doing that, the extra protein does nothing for you.

[Noah Michelson]

Right.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

A metaphor that I heard and really stuck with me. I wish that I remember where I heard this was that eating protein if you're not doing a lot of exercise is like delivering bricks to a closed building site. Like the protein. You can't store protein. You can't. The protein is not getting used by your body. So to your point about feel like emotional support protein, I think there's this sense of like, well, maybe if I just get the protein, I'm like three quarters of the way there. But if you're not doing all the exercise to use that protein, it's kind of for not.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

It's such common sense. I just wish, you know, it is.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

Common sense so easy that we could just like eat a bunch of protein powder and we'd all look like supermodels and it'd be great. But so back to your point about protein powders, if you are, you know, you're like a Member of Arnold Schwarzenegger's pump club. And you're, like, doing it. You're really working out a ton like that Whey protein is a pretty good idea because you probably do need to figure out how to get more protein and fewer calories. But if you're just a regular person who's trying to live a long and healthy life, you're gonna be better off getting that protein from Whole Foods. For the reason I mentioned earlier, which is that Whole Foods provide you with so much more than just, like, the isolated protein. It's the whole package. It's like the fiber. And by the way, this whole idea that protein keeps you full for longer, which is not totally wrong. It works a lot better if you're eating it in the context of a food that has actual bulk. Right. And has fiber in it, maybe, and it's more filling generally. So just adding whey protein to things is not really going to be a great solution for most people.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

That makes perfect sense. I mean, I have had, you know, from my various juice places, like a smoothie and add protein. I'm definitely hungry again in an hour. Like, that's not a thing. It's different. If you're eating, like, a sandwich with grilled chicken and veggies in it, that's going to hold you.

[Noah Michelson]

I was also reading somewhere, too, and they were saying, like, just like you were saying, a lot of people think just adding protein is going to make your muscles bigger. And they were saying if you have a choice between concentrating on working out or concentrating on getting more protein, concentrate on the working out. That is the thing that builds muscle is working out.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

That's the harder part.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

Oh, yeah. Well, that's the thing. It's like 100%. But it's so much easier to just buy a smoothie.

[Noah Michelson]

Exactly. But that's probably not doing anything.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

No, it's. You've got to really, like, do the work.

[Noah Michelson]

Have you heard anything about this idea that you should have protein right after you work out? I was reading some people were like, that's absolutely not true. And other people were like, no, it's definitely true.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

I do a carb before and protein after. I really hope that.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

So my understanding is that most athletes do not eat protein before because it's tough on your digestion, and so you're more likely to have, like, tummy troubles if you eat protein and then work out. And that most people do have protein immediately after because it helps with muscle synthesis. That's my understanding. But I'm very interested in this alternative Take that you should not eat protein right after.

[Noah Michelson]

So they didn't say that you shouldn't, but they were saying that you basically have 24 hours to rebuild that muscle after you've worked out. And so you're probably going to be getting protein at a meal anyways.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Okay.

[Noah Michelson]

But unless you're again, a really high performing athlete, your muscles are gonna get repaired by the protein you're gonna get anyways. And it doesn't have to be in that 30 minutes, ready after you work out or an hour after you work out.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

I think that's totally, that sounds totally right to me that the difference of, you know, are we optimizing to the nth degree? Maybe you're really pacing your protein in a very specific way and that's because you're an Olympic weightlifter and you're like, I really need to, like, there are guys out there who are. I'm just trying to get the edge right. But if you're a normal person working out, it is true that you, while our bodies don't store protein for long periods of time, you basically, as long as you're getting the right amount in a 24 hour period. Our bodies are very sophisticated in terms of being able to space that out and make sure that everything is happening that needs to happen. So for your average person, it's just not something that should be taking up headspace.

[Noah Michelson]

Right?

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Yeah. Again, I have to say that like, for regular people like me, rushing home and having protein is a part of the process that makes me feel happy and excited to work out.

[Noah Michelson]

Do you know what I'm saying?

[Elizabeth Dunn]

It makes you feel like you're doing it.

[Gab Tech Announcer]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

You're really doing it.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

I'm in it.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

I know that's a lot of the psychology of this.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

I think it's important and I get that it's just psychology, but I think it's part of the reason why I enjoyed my routine. I'm like, I'm feeling good about myself. You know, it feels very different than when I have my bacon, egg and cheese. You know, I'm like in a routine, I'm showing up for myself.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

But yeah, and I don't want to do down. Like, I think that the psychology is important and getting some like, momentum into your sense of wellness is important. And so I think if people are becoming very specific about their protein routine after working out and it actually makes them feel good about themselves and it gets them onto a really, into a really great routine in terms of taking care of themselves, like, by all means, do it but if you're stressed, right? If it's a source of stress. Stress where you're like, well, if I can't get the protein right after I work out, I might as well not work out. Like, do not. Yeah, do not worry about that.

[Noah Michelson]

Yeah, right. But a lot of it, I think sometimes we do these things psychologically and that is great. But in terms of what it's actually doing, medically, scientifically, economically might be a little different.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Listen, so much of what goes on in my life is like, in Raji's head, like, fantasy time.

[Noah Michelson]

I support that. No, that is fine.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

I do have. I want to clarify because you said whey protein can be great for certain people. Do you have a preference as far? There's so many different kinds of vegetarian and not vegetarian. Vegetarian protein, pea protein seems cool. Like, what. What do you like?

[Elizabeth Dunn]

Right. So whey. I think the general hierarchy is that whey is kind of the. The top, the best quality protein if you were somebody who eats animal products, because obviously whey comes from dairy, so you have to be able to eat animal products. If you don't eat animal products, the next best is soy, which is like pretty close in quality to whey in terms of. We talked about, it's a complete protein. It's very bioavailable. It's. They can process it so it's very pure down. And then some people are allergic to soy. Right. Or maybe you just don't like the taste for some reason. The next one would be pea protein. But I think that's like quite a jump down from. From whey and soy to pea in terms of that question of bioavailability. So that's like. That's kind of the. The general hierarchy. Yeah.

[Noah Michelson]

I'm also going to do this. You know, the thing we do sometimes we're like, we are not doctors.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

Oh, yes.

[Noah Michelson]

And if you're going to try something new, you might want to talk to your doctor. I know there still this battle about soy and whether or not that's bad for some people, especially in terms of breast cancer. Everything I read said that that is actually an outdated idea. But you still want to be thoughtful. So if you're going to go on a journey with protein, especially supplements, you might want to talk to your doctor about it.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

And I. On the question of soy and breast cancer specifically, that's an area that I've done. I am not a doctor either, but I've done enough research into that and spoken to enough experts to feel confident saying there is a very. A good body of data that shows that eating soy is actually protective against.

[Noah Michelson]

That's what I've heard.

[Gab Tech Announcer]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

And that's legit, so that should not be a concern. Same thing with, like, men being concerned about eating soy. Is that bad for my manliness? That, like, fake news? That's. That's not an issue. But like you said, you know, different. Every people have allergies that they might not realize everybody's body is different. And if we're talking about protein powders, which are supplements, that whole industry is really unregulated. So you have to be really careful that you're getting products that are, you know, not adulterated, that are high quality. Which is yet another reason to not be like, oh, I'm gonna rely on soy powder, like, you know, any kind of protein powder for all of my protein needs.

[Noah Michelson]

Well, since we're like, already flirting with, like, sort of the seedy world of like, wellness and everything.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

The underworld.

[Noah Michelson]

Yeah, you've done a lot of research on this and everything is protein now. Like, Starbucks has protein cold foam, and like Khloe Kardashian selling protein popcorn. It feels pretty new, actually. Is this new and why is this happening now?

[Elizabeth Dunn]

I would say the CPG explosion thing is new. The fact that we're seeing protein added to all kinds of products, that feels pretty new to me. However, protein really has been. Has had main character energy, as I sometimes said, since like the 90s, since Atkinson. And that was when the general public, scientists and the general public started to realize that protein was valuable for weight control as well as for building muscle. So it sort of protein. Everybody kind of knew from 19th century on that it was important for building strength. In the 90s, it started to be recognized that a high protein diet actually could really help people lose weight. And that's when Atkins and South beach really took off. And I would say that there was a pretty steady interest in protein from the 90s through the 2000s through the 2000s, with different, just like different diet names. But protein was the constant. The rise of social media, TikTok, Instagram, with so many different health influencers who are looking for simple fixes to give people to draw followers. And Andrew Huberman and Peter Attia specifically as podcasters and as sort of wellness experts promoting protein. It sort of. And then you also had the pandemic where people are sitting at home, they're. They're on social media a lot. They're also really concerned about health and they're really concerned about longevity. So there was a really kind of captive Audience for this new enthusiasm for, like, this is gonna be the one thing that's gonna solve all of your problems. And it's protein. And then add to that that protein is something that it is pretty easy to just kind of inject into a bunch of products. And that's, I think, what has caused this explosion. It's just, it's easy to market around. There's the ozempic effect, which we could also talk about, that people on GLP1 drugs are being told that they need more protein, so they're looking for protein.

[Noah Michelson]

Oh, interesting.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

So there's a lot of, like, there's a lot of factors that have combined to I guess turn this trend that was floating along the whole time to like get into overdrive.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

When is it gonna be gnocchi? Like in all gnocchi days?

[Noah Michelson]

I don't think it's going to be. That is the problem.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

I'm gonna try it out for everyone. There are rumblings on the street, like these like, crazy trends that, like, fiber is the next it girl. Like, you know, I know. I feel like I've read it in a few articles. What do you think about that? Is fiber the thing we're gonna be obsessed with next?

[Elizabeth Dunn]

I think that fiber is actually a more legit thing to be obsessed with than protein in the sense that when I speak to all my nutritionist pals that are sources for stories like fiber is the thing that they have forever been banging on about that we don't get enough of. And so something like 95% of Americans are supposedly deficient in fiber.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Have you seen people's poop?

[Elizabeth Dunn]

Yeah, it's not good. Well, and again, you know, the meat sticks are not helping, right? The meat sticks are not helping.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Poop is not great.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

And the science on this is only really evolving in the sense that as scientists, nutrition scientists, and all kinds of doctors study the microbiome, we're realizing that. But fiber is super important to the health of the microbiome, which then contributes to the health of the whole rest of our bodies. Mental health, obviously, gut health, mental health, all kinds of sort of follow on consequences of having a healthy gut. And what nutrition scientists are discovering is that your gut, in order to be healthy, these little microbes in your digestive tract that digest your food for you, they need not just a lot of fiber, but they actually need a diversity of sources of fiber.

[Noah Michelson]

Of course. Yeah, Right.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

So it's important to get a lot of fiber. It's also important to get fiber from lots of different types of plants and that this is like really a huge driver of health that I think people feel like we're just beginning to really understand. So for that reason, I think that there is a legitimate reason why fiber should be the next big thing. I'm just questioning, are there enough different? Because it's only going to be the next big thing if food companies can profit off it. Like, that's of course, just as the truth. That's capitalism. And so the question is, can you actually jam fiber into enough things that it will take off in that way?

[Noah Michelson]

I also think fiber has this sort of like, taint to it because people do think of pooping.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

Yeah.

[Noah Michelson]

And so it's not like Khloe Kardashian doesn't want to make fiber popcorn. It's just people don't think that's as exciting.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

It could be rebranded by musil and old people prunes. I know. It just doesn't. I know. And there's the prebiotic soda trend. So that's obviously like fiber related. So I don't know. It could be the next big thing. Tbd. I think we're not done with protein.

[Noah Michelson]

That's what I was gonna say. It feels like protein's here to stay for a while. What have you learned about getting too much protein? Is that also a health risk?

[Elizabeth Dunn]

The short answer is, for most people, no. Like, unless you have a kidney problem or you're eating truly astronomical amounts of protein, it's unlikely that you're actually gonna really hurt yourself with too much protein. But again, I wanna come back to this thing of the biggest potential risk is if you are eating so much protein, you are probably not getting enough of the other things you need in your diet. That's the way in which you're most likely to hurt your own health is that you're not getting the fiber, you're not getting the really awesome phytonutrients from plants. You're just basically not getting enough plants in your diet.

[Noah Michelson]

Yeah. And if you're getting it from Starbucks protein cream and that came on top of a Frappuccino, then you're also getting sugar and fat and all these other things.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

And the same with Prot Bars. Like that would be the same argument. Is that protein bars are, you know, they're. They've got. Well, a lot of them have sugar substitutes. They don't actually have sugar in them, but they're not really loaded with lots of other things that are great for your health. They're basically just protein delivery bombs and.

[Noah Michelson]

Like a candy bar. Basically.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

Yeah.

[Noah Michelson]

I Used to be obsessed with protein bars when I was younger.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

They're so delicious.

[Noah Michelson]

But they are. And the ones I was eating when I was younger did have sugar in them and I can have like 18 grams of sugar.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

And you're like power bars.

[Noah Michelson]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

Did you eat power bars? I actually loved power bars.

[Noah Michelson]

I did too.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

But those, those were not that high protein.

[Noah Michelson]

No, they weren't. No. That's a great point. And also the weirdest texture ever.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

It was like a tasty, strangely satisfying.

[Noah Michelson]

No, I loved it.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

They're an acquired taste, but once you get into it, it's like same with.

[Noah Michelson]

Like a Clif bar. It was like eating a cookie almost.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Yeah, okay. RX bars, the ones that are date based are the most hands down delicious.

[Noah Michelson]

They're delicious.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

You don't like them, but you have to really like dates.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

I like Luna bars. Those are my fave. But also not super. I mean they were considered high protein at the time, but now people are like 12 grams.

[Noah Michelson]

It's nothing. Yeah, no, it's so true. 100 grams or nothing. Yeah.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

I have to ask like a cultural question. I know that here in America we're probably getting enough protein, but my parents are from India and I've read multiple pieces of research that are like people in South Asia are eating too many carbs and not enough protein. When I tell you my parents will eat like a roti and a potato curry or something and I'm like, what are you doing? And they're vegetarian too, so it's like, you know, they, they eat a lot of vegetables, but a lot of times their plate has too many carbs on it. And it's totally cultural. It's like. And I eat like that when I'm in India a lot of times. And it's so delicious. It's a lot of bread, a lot of rice. Um, do we need to reflect on like what our cultural inclinations are? Because they show up in our conditions later, I think.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

What's the veggie sitch when you are with your parents? Like, is there, there isn't obviously if.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

You'Re cooked veggies, right? They're cooked. Yeah, but there's too many carbs.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

I think that the issue there is actually not the one you think it is. The issue is too many carbs, not too little protein. Right. So like the issue is you should be eating more even if they're cooked veggies, it's fine eating more of the veggies, smaller amount of the carbs and then, I mean, it's a Good question that you raise. Like, is this. Could this be a problem for a lot of populations around the world that are non Americans? I guess I would say when you think about traditional diets around the world, when you really think about them, not that many are super meat heavy. You always hear about, like, the Inuit and the Maasai, and you're like, okay, fine, but those are extremely tiny populations. Those prove the rule.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Right.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

Because they're the outlier. And for the most part, you think about Western Europe, you think about Japan, people think in Japan, they eat, you know, lots of sushi. They actually eat a ton of rice, and they eat a lot of pickled vegetables. And there's are not super protein heavy. Not that many traditional diets are super protein heavy.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Okay.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

So, yeah, I think just, like, lean into the veggies. I would not disagree that even though naan is delicious and roti is delicious, like, that probably is not ultimately the best thing. It's so hard to say no.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

I know. Yeah, I know. Okay, that's good to know. And of course, we never want to deviate from our cultural food.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

Yeah.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

But again, like, balance is the name of the game. Yeah.

[Noah Michelson]

What have you seen online in terms of, like, any disturbing protein trends? Have you seen anything that's, like, in the wellness sphere? I think, Raj, you were saying, like, you've seen people who just have, like, giant chunks of Parmesan that they're just eating on TikTok.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

That, like, TikTok thing. And I couldn't tell if it was serious or not. Where, like, influencers were like, I'm eating a brick of Parmesan instead of a protein bar, and it has more protein. And I'm like, okay.

[Noah Michelson]

But sure.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

The crazy thing about TikTok, though, is whether or not that was meant to be serious, for sure, people will start doing it. Like, that kind of nuance is lost, and people are not necessarily in on the joke. And so that's scary. I've not heard that. And that just makes me thirsty. Just even.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

I know.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

So much salt. Are you kidding me? I think the most disturbing trend is the carnivore diet, for sure. And the reason I say that is because I think it's just. It's horrifying because any restrictive diet will make people lose weight. So I think that there is a real poll that, like, oh, my gosh, these people are eating only, like, steak and butter and they're losing weight, and supposedly their autoimmune conditions are going away, which is, by the way, not a backed by research thing.

[AT&T Business Wireless Announcer]

Maybe.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

No, what I've researched supports what you're saying.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

Yeah, not a research backed phenomenon, but the reason that it's so horrible is that, you know, maybe there are these short term results for some people, but in the long term that is gonna be so, so bad for your cardiac health. And like as a woman, the leading cause of death for women is heart attacks, is cardiovascular events. And so if you're in your 20s and you're eating like this because you saw it online, like, you know, and you continue to follow that diet, that's gonna have some like pretty. You're gonna have some pretty bad visits with your doctor in your 40s. It's like your cholesterol is 870, right?

[Noah Michelson]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

You know, and so I think that's the big one. That's not that. I'm sure there are ones that are much more kind of like viral and surprising. But the carnivore thing, I just think it's like it's. And environmentally too.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Totally.

[Noah Michelson]

It's a great point.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

Not the direction we really want to be going.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Yeah. I want to ask you about something that went that was, you know, all over the news a couple of weeks ago. There's an article about how there was lead found in protein powder supplements. And I was horrified when I read the headline, of course. And then I heard the article and like read more about it, which I highly recommend for anyone to read the articles.

[Noah Michelson]

It's funny too because I read it and I talked to my boyfriend Benji and we do protein powder with our smoothies. He's like, we only have like four servings a week. And they said that's fine. I'm like, do we want any lead? And he was like, no, there's lead in everything.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

And what do we find? That there's lead in everything.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

How many people send you guys that article? I'm just curious.

[Pura Announcer]

So many.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

Yeah, me, I didn't know what there was specific to me and I guess it tells you something about who you are and like that. So many people sent me that article and were like, ah, what do I do? And it's true. So if you actually read the fine print, you look into it. This was a, this was a. Some testing done by Consumer Reports. I love Consumer Reports, but they are extremely conservative.

[Noah Michelson]

They're extremely conservative and a little hysterical sometimes.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

It can get. Yeah. And you know, they're quite, you know, particular. And so what they did with this testing of lead and protein powders was they used the limit set by California for what a safe amount of Lead is to consume daily, which is an extremely conservative limit. Like there's the FDA limit, which is actually lower than the EU's limit. So the FDA limit is already kind of conservative. And then they use the California limit, which is a fraction of that. And so when they discovered that many of these protein powders had more than you should, you know, a single serving had more than you should, than you should have in a day, or more than you should have in a week. Sounds awful. It sounds like, oh my God, I need to go. Not just throw the protein powders out, but like light them on fire and do like a sage ceremony. Like, I need to get this out of my life and talk to my priest and whatever. It's actually not that bad. The amount of lead found in these protein powders. You should not, you should absolutely not freak out if you've been eating those protein powders, having. And there. And as you said, there is lead in every. There's lead in so many things. It's in our environment, it's in the soil. We should always be working harder as a food system to get the lead out, especially for children and for pregnant women. If you were pregnant, I would say do not have protein powder. It's really important to not consume lead. Back to our earlier discussion about the supplement industry. I think the broader lesson is that you really should think very hard about having a supplements based diet because these are concentrated substances like, like whey powder is concentrated from a huge quantity of milk. And so when you concentrate the nutrients, you're also going to concentrate any kind of a toxin that might be in there. So just like a general good lesson that really a whole foods diet, you know, people say it again and again, the whole foods diet is really going to be the healthiest. Not just from what macronutrients are you having, but what toxins are you not not having. Perspective.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

I mean, my whole thing is if you have consumed a Four Loko in the past 20 years, right. You're gonna have to chill out about the lead in your whip.

[Noah Michelson]

Yeah. And also concentrate on things that you can concentrate on. You know what I mean? Like you said, like you can concentrate on getting more whole foods into your.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Diet, make yourself healthier.

[Noah Michelson]

You can't really freak out about a little bit of lead or some microplastics because they're everywhere.

[Gab Tech Announcer]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

And something I think about a lot with this, this whole wellness trend that we're all so caught up in is at some point it really becomes really antisocial and a little bit selfish. If I'm being honest. It's like there's a limit to how much we should really be thinking about our nutritional choices versus our communities, like other people. I think right now, as we're taping, many people are losing their SNAP benefits around the country. If you have some extra head space to devote to food, maybe don't, you know, just like, knuckle down on every single food choice that you make and instead think about, you know, how can we help other people? How can I serve my community? Like, these are kind of better ways to spend your mental energy.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

I love that you said that so much. Because as I like, you know, drag my parents about all the naan, I'm kind of like, I love sharing naan with my parents, and I'm never gonna stop breaking bread with them to be like, don't eat that bread, or like, whatever. It is, like, the communal aspect of eating. And, you know, all of the rest of what you said, so important for our health.

[Noah Michelson]

Yeah. And so much of the wellness fear is about making us feel bad, making us spend money. And it, like you said, it is really selfish in a lot of ways. And it's not thinking about community.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, it's really. It's a marathon, not a sprint with all of your nutrition habits. And so just focusing on trying to make pretty good choices most of the time, as you said, like, is it more important that you're eating a protein forward meal or is it more important that you're, like, having some giggles with your parents and having. Participating in a tradition? Way more important that you're having fun with your parents. You will probably make up for that protein, those vegetables.

[Gab Tech Announcer]

That's right.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

And another meal. And there's a lot of legitimate things to stress about right now in the world. This is just not. These are not things that people should be becoming really super wrapped up in.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

I totally agree with you.

[Noah Michelson]

Yeah. Thank you, Liz. This was so good.

[Elizabeth Dunn]

Well, thank you so much for having me. Anytime.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

I feel better. And I'm also craving some protein foam.

[Noah Michelson]

We're getting you some. No, not the foam. We're going to get you, like, some whole Foods, Right?

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

All right.

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[Noah Michelson]

Okay, it's time for Better in five. These are the top five things that we just learned in this episode. Number one, protein consumption is based on your weight. And for most people, that's about half a gram per pound. But everyone's going to to be different.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

All right, number two, we mostly associate protein with meat, but you can get it a lot from veggies and a vegetarian diet.

[Noah Michelson]

I sure do. Number three, for most people, it's going to be better to get your protein from whole foods, but supplements can be useful for some folks.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Okay, number four, I love this one. We all fixate on protein, but we really need to be thinking about the big picture and particularly maybe the next hot girl. Fiber.

[Noah Michelson]

Fiber. Number five, your quest for protein shouldn't come at the expense of your health or having a good time with the people you love.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Community. Okay, so, Noah, after all that, have you been doing protein wrong?

[Noah Michelson]

I don't know that I've been doing it wrong. I feel like we're doing it wrong as a culture.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Totally.

[Noah Michelson]

That's why I love this episode. Because Liz knew so much about, like, what people are obsessed with. And a lot of it seems, like, not useful, actually. So I don't think I'm gonna be getting the protein cream at Starbucks. I know I keep calling out Starbucks. I love Starbucks. But I keep.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

He really does, fam. He really does.

[Noah Michelson]

But I keep calling them out. Cause that's the dumbest one that I've seen so far. I think I'm just gonna try and be mindful about where I'm getting it, make sure I'm getting enough. But I'm not into this obsession. I don't think it's serving us. Did you learn stuff?

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

I did learn stuff.

[Noah Michelson]

Okay.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

No, you know what? Here's the thing. Mine's a little bit different than yours. I kind of am seeing that my obsession with protein is. It's good for me because it kind of makes me more motivated to work out and things like that. And I'm not. It's not getting crazy. I see that. It could get crazy.

[Noah Michelson]

I liked what you said, though, about the psychological part of it where, like, if that's part of your routine and that actually gets you across the finish line there, I don't think that's harmful.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Yeah, it's the only thing that's making me feel motivated to work out, really. So I'm gonna keep it. But I've retained all the information. It's not gonna get out of hand, I promise.

[Noah Michelson]

Okay. I'm gonna check in on you, though, just to make sure.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Thank you.

[Noah Michelson]

Anyways, as long as there are things to get wrong, we're gonna be right here to help you do them better.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Love you guys. Am I Doing it Wrong Is a co production between HuffPost and Acast.

[Noah Michelson]

Our producers are Eve Bishop, Carmen Gorca Carrillo and Malia Agadello.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Our executive producers are Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rutter.

[Noah Michelson]

Special thanks to HuffPost's head of audience, Abby Williams.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Head of Video Will Took, as well.

[Noah Michelson]

As Kate Palmer, Marta Rodriguez and Terry d'. Angelo.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

And we're your hosts, Raj Panjabi Johnson and Noah Michelson.

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