Unpacking the Truth About Sugar

Summary

Podcast Summary: Am I Doing It Wrong?

Episode: Unpacking the Truth About Sugar

Hosts: Raj Panjabi Johnson and Noah Michelson
Guest: Maya Feller, Registered Dietitian
Date: April 2, 2026

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Overview

This episode dives into the anxieties and confusion most people experience about sugar: what it is, how it affects us, whether all sugars are created equal, and if it's possible to have a healthier relationship with the sweet stuff. With special guest Maya Feller, a renowned dietitian, Raj and Noah tackle pervasive myths and real science behind sugar, offering listeners practical advice on navigating sugar in everyday life.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What Is Sugar, Really?

[05:15 – 07:44]

• Maya Feller defines sugar as a type of carbohydrate, which includes both "free sugars" (added or naturally occurring, e.g., in honey, table sugar) and sugars found naturally in foods like fruit and vegetables.
• The body processes sources of sugar similarly: "Your body recognizes both... as a simple sugar, right? So… even honey or agave… it’s still sugar." (Maya Feller, 06:33)
• Sugars in whole fruits are absorbed slower due to fiber; starchy veggies slow it down even more.
• Carbohydrates—including sugar—are the brain's preferred energy source.

2. How Much Sugar Is "Too Much"?

[07:44 – 08:59]

• The World Health Organization recommends no more than 5% of daily calories from free sugars, which is roughly 5 teaspoons (20 grams) daily.
• Americans typically far exceed this, consuming about 15 pounds of sugar yearly.
• Nutrition labels can be misleading; a single sugary drink can surpass daily recommendations.

3. What Happens When We Eat Too Much?

[10:01 – 13:47]

• Excess sugar overloads the body's insulin response, leading to "the blood sugar roller coaster."
• Over time, this can result in insulin resistance, risk for diabetes, elevated cholesterol, and fatty liver disease.
• Maya uses the "post office" analogy: "If the post office is flooded with too much mail [sugar], the single mail carrier [insulin] can't deliver it all." (Maya Feller, 11:05)
• She emphasizes it's structural and societal, not just individual failure.

4. Cravings, Addiction, and Willpower

[14:33 – 18:00]

• Sugar naturally activates pleasure centers in the brain—"It’s a positive reward, and it elicits feel good feelings." (15:31)
• Cravings are influenced by biology and environment; high accessibility (processed foods packed with sugar) amplifies the problem.
• Willpower is only so useful; Maya questions the concept, noting the deep physiological drive outweighs it.
• Guilt around sugar is often more harmful than helpful: "The dark side… is like a slippery, slippery slope. It’s never just, ‘Oh, I ate the cookie.’ It’s, ‘My self worth is tied up…’" (Maya Feller, 18:00)

5. All Sugars Are (Mostly) the Same

[18:39 – 21:48]

• Difference between white sugar, brown sugar, honey, agave, corn syrup is mostly about source and moisture, not "healthiness."
• "Sugar in the body gets recognized as sugar in the body." (Maya Feller, 19:47)
• Minor differences (e.g., honey with trace minerals) don’t outweigh the fact that they all raise blood sugar similarly.
• "It's the dose, it's the quantity, and it's what you eat it with.” (Maya Feller, 21:23)

6. Why Do Some People Have a Sweet Tooth?

[21:48 – 24:47]

• Both genetic and learned/environmental. Childhood experiences, family culture, and the emotional context of eating sweets play big roles.
• Humans are "born preferring sweet… a kind of protective mechanism" to avoid bitter (potentially poisonous) foods. (Maya Feller, 23:13)
• Holidays and celebrations reinforce positive associations with sugar.

7. Hidden Sugars and Reading Labels

[26:38 – 32:03]

• Hidden sugars are everywhere—even in "healthy" foods like bread and sauces.
• First ingredients on labels indicate what dominates; learn to spot added sugars.
• Anything above 20% daily value for “added sugar” per serving is considered high.
• “You have to be an informed consumer. The first five ingredients—especially the first—compose the majority... Make a choice based on that.” (Maya Feller, 28:33)
• It's harder for people in marginalized or lower-income communities due to access and cost.

8. Building a Better Relationship with Sugar

[32:04 – 33:49]

• Focus more on adding hydration and fiber (which helps reduce sugar absorption) instead of obsessing about removing sugar entirely.
• Practices like the "80/20 Rule" (80% mindful, 20% enjoyable without guilt), or making small swaps and improvements over time.
• “Find something that works and don’t be so hard. Give yourself some grace.” (Maya Feller, 33:08)
• Occasional treats are fine; it’s the repeated pattern, not the outlier, that matters.

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Memorable Moments & Notable Quotes

• On moderation and self-care:
  "Give yourself grace, man. Because the foodscape, even as a dietitian, like 15 years in, I'm always like, ‘Oh, well, I didn't see that one coming.’" (Maya Feller, 49:35)
• On sugar alternatives:
  "They're a fantastic alternative for people who are looking for a low or no calorie sugar substitute… Use it the way that you would sugar, which is in moderation." (Maya Feller, 46:34, 47:16)
• On shifting taste buds:
  "It’s totally possible… incremental reduction of sugar… what had to happen was people had to enjoy the foods but not recognize that there was a marked difference in the sugar." (Maya Feller, 41:21 – 42:14)
• On fruit as dessert:
  “Grapes are a berry, and they’re filled with polyphenols… No, it’s not like sitting down and having a bowl of sugar.” (Maya Feller, 45:16)
• On deprivation vs. satisfaction:
  “If you want to have a cookie, bake it. Bring some friends over and enjoy it.” (Maya Feller, 49:35)
• On systems vs. individuals:
  "I never blame individuals because it's always the structures, right?... It's the systems. 100%..." (Maya Feller, 14:10)

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Timestamps of Significant Segments

• Welcome & Anecdotes: 03:05 – 04:49
• What is Sugar & How Does the Body Use It?: 05:15 – 07:44
• Recommended Sugar Intake: 07:44 – 08:59
• Effects of Excess Sugar: 10:01 – 13:47
• Cravings & Willpower: 14:33 – 18:00
• Types of Sugar & "Healthier" Choices: 18:39 – 21:48
• Family, Culture, and Sweet Tooth: 21:48 – 24:47
• How to Spot Hidden Sugar: 26:38 – 32:03
• Adjusting Sugar Intake, Real-Life Tips: 32:04 – 33:49
• Sugar and Sleep, Best Times to Consume: 33:49 – 35:35
• Diabetes, Insulin Resistance, & Cultural Food: 35:36 – 39:39
• All-at-once vs. Grazing on Sugar: 39:39 – 41:09
• Adjusting Taste Buds to Less Sugar: 41:12 – 43:17
• Artificial/Chemical Sweeteners: 46:01 – 49:26
• The One Big Takeaway: 49:27 – 50:33
• Hosts’ Personal Reflections: 54:07 – 55:15

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Top Five Takeaways (Better in Five)

[53:21 – 54:07]

1. Sugar isn’t evil: We need it for energy—problems arise with excess consumption.
2. All sugars are processed similarly by the body: Source or type has minor impact; moderation is key.
3. Read nutrition labels: Awareness is empowering; check for hidden sugars.
4. Avoid high sugar intake late or before bed: It's harder for your body to manage sugar while you sleep.
5. You can train yourself to want less: Gradually cut back and your tastes will adjust.

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Tone and Final Thoughts

Gentle, non-judgmental, reassuring, and practical—Maya Feller steers the conversation away from moralizing food choices, instead offering empathy, science, and workable strategies for real people. As Raj puts it:
“I feel good and warm and happy inside and not terrified. So that’s great.” (54:48)

The episode encourages listeners to approach sugar with realistic moderation, self-forgiveness, and a focus on making gradual, sustainable changes rather than striving for perfection—or succumbing to guilt.

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Recommended for anyone feeling anxious about their sugar intake, confused by dietary messaging, or simply looking for down-to-earth, actionable advice.

Transcript

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[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

On Big lives We take a single

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cultural icon, people like Jane Fonda, George Michael, Little Richard and we pull apart

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

the story behind the image.

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And we do this by digging through

[Maya Feller]

the BBC's vast archives, discovering forgotten interviews

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

that change exactly how we see these

[Maya Feller]

giants of Our culture.

[Noah Michaelson]

We're here for the messy, the brilliant,

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the human version of our heroes.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

I'm Emmanuel Jochi.

[Noah Michaelson]

I'm Kai Wright.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

And this is Big Lives.

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Listen to Big Lives wherever you get your podcasts.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Hi, I'm Raj Panjabi Johnson, head of identity content at HuffPost.

[Noah Michaelson]

And I'm Noah Michaelson, head of HuffPost Personal.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Welcome to Am I Doing It Wrong? The show that explores the all too human anxieties we have about trying to get our lives right. Okay, Noah, I have a cute one for you.

[Noah Michaelson]

All right.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Have you been doing sugar wrong?

[Noah Michaelson]

Aha. Okay, here's the deal. When I was in college, this is the mid-90s, and we had a smoothie place open called Crazy Carrot. It was eventually bought by Jamba Juice, but it was, like, a big deal to have a smoothie place in St. Paul, Minnesota, and I would go every single day. I was obsessed.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Well, smoothies are so good.

[Noah Michaelson]

So good. But these were the kind of smoothies that were like milkshakes, and I didn't recognize that it had, like, frozen yogurt in it. It was, like, tons of sugar. So I found out how much sugar was in them, and I was horrified because it was, like, 12 days of my daily intake and one smoothie, and I was having at least one a day. So that was an eye opener, and I was like, oh, there's sugar everywhere. What are you doing? I'm not gonna say that I'm, like, great at sugar, but I think I'm maybe better than the average person. What about you?

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

I don't. I didn't even need an eye opener. Like, I know how much sugar there is in everything, and I just welcome it into my body. I am definitely doing sugar wrong. Like, I need help. Help me.

[Noah Michaelson]

You're not, like, trying to curtail it?

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

I would like to. I'm reaching that point in my life, but as of right now, I've just been welcoming it.

[Noah Michaelson]

Frenetic, Crazy sugar intake.

[Maya Feller]

Viral.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Yes.

[Noah Michaelson]

Well, luckily, we have someone who's going to help us out. It's Maya Feller. She is the lead dietitian at Maya Feller Nutrition. Also, she's been featured everywhere. She's been on Good Morning America, the Today Show, Martha Stewart in the New York Times. So we have got the expert for this show.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

We'll come through. Sugar. Maya, thank you so much for being here with us today. We're so excited to have you.

[Maya Feller]

Thank you both for having me. I'm thrilled to be here.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Okay, amazing. Let's hear as much painful information about Sugar that we can.

[Noah Michaelson]

It's going to be good. It's going to be good.

[Maya Feller]

It's going to be so good, it's not going to be painful. I'm like the most gentle dietitian out there. Like, it's not. There's no pain, no pain.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

I'm a. I'm a fiend. So let's start at the very beginning.

[Maya Feller]

Okay.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

What is sugar exactly? And what does it do to our bodies?

[Maya Feller]

Yeah, so sugar is a carbohydrate, right? And when we think about it, there are simple sugars, right? And those simple sugars are found in things like fruit juice, also candy. There are things that get absorbed rather quickly. When you think about the chemical structure of sugar, like then it starts to get a little bit into the weeds. But usually people will say things like, well, there's free sugars and then naturally occurring sugars. And so the naturally occurring sugars are the things that are found in the foods that we eat. So there's sugar to some degree in all the foods that you eat, like fruits, right? Anything that's a carbohydrate has a sugar in it. Now the challenge is that people will say, well, you know, there's a hierarchy of those naturally occurring sugars. Some are good, some are not good. And that's like really binary thinking. And then most people like to say, well, the free sugars, right? Like the table sugar, that's no good, right? But here's the thing. Like sugar that comes from sugar cane and sugar that comes from honey, they may have different nutrients in them, but your body recognizes both of those as a simple sugar, right? So you'll have that person who's like, oh yeah, have honey or agave. It's so much better for you. It's still sugar. And so your body is readily absorbing it. Now if you have a piece of fruit that's wrapped in fiber. Cause all fruits have some fiber in it to some degree. That's gonna. It's still a simple sugar, but it'll be absorbed a little slower. Now if you take it a step further and then you have a vegetable, like a non starchy vegetable, leafy green. Yes, there is some sugar in there, but that's more fiber. And then the absorption's even slower. So sugars are basically carbohydrates. Our bodies need them. It's our brain's preferred source of energy. And without sugar to some degree, or carbohydrates, right. Our body doesn't just function the way that we want it to. We need that fuel we absolutely need the fuel now. And of course, people are like, well, why are you putting vegetables in there? Just because our carbohydrate literacy is not fantastic. But I'm talking mostly about simple sugars for the time that we're together. Yeah.

[Noah Michaelson]

So if we are a typical person, we don't have a condition like diabetes or something like that, how much sugar should we be getting a day? Or how much is too much?

[Maya Feller]

Yeah. So I love that question. And the World Health. And I had to take, like a deep breath. I kind of want to, like, lie down and go to bed and be like, so the World Health Organization says, ideally, no more than 5% of our calories coming from free sugars. Like, that is a low amount when you think about how much sugar people take in. I think I remember seeing a statistic somewhere. Like, we eat something like 15 pounds of sugar a year.

[Noah Michaelson]

Right.

[Maya Feller]

Which is wild. Don't quote me on that number. But it's some extraordinary number. And so if you're thinking about, you know what that means, we're definitely talking about no more than five teaspoons of sugar per day. And, like, a teaspoon of sugar is 4 grams. But if you've ever looked at a nutrition facts label, right. And you've gotten something that is sugar sweetened, you're like, wait a second, it's 50 grams of added sugar.

[Noah Michaelson]

You've just gone through your daily recommended dosage right there.

[Maya Feller]

Yeah.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

See, this is why I don't drink soda, because I like to eat my sugar.

[Noah Michaelson]

Yeah.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

So if I'm going to consume that, like 30 grams or whatever that's in a Pepsi or whatever, I want a piece of cake. I know that we're talking about fat and cholesterol over there too, but, like, I. I make these deals with myself on a daily basis.

[Maya Feller]

I like your deal. When I'm working with people, this is how I think about it. We all are going to interact with some type of free sugar. We have to decide how it's going to come into our lives. And so what I say is, like, choose your sugar interaction. Where do you want it to be? Like, if you know, Raj, that you're like, hey, I love a piece of cake, then it's cake. And then you're like, I'm not gonna have a sugar sweetened beverage. But if you're like, oh, I want it to come in the form of a liquid, then you're like, all right, well, Maybe I'll have 4 ounces of juice with my meal. Right. So I do think that there's space to have it. And it would. I think it would actually be kind of ridiculous if we were like, we'll never have sugar ever.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Yeah.

[Noah Michaelson]

This seems really remedial, but I think we should just address it. There might be someone listening who's like, well, why is it bad if I have too much sugar? What happens to us if we're having way too much sugar every day?

[Maya Feller]

Yeah. So, all right, I'm gonna do a tiny bit of like, this is how sugar gets absorbed into your body. And I'm gonna use an analogy that I often use. So let's say we take sugar into our mouth and I'm gonna use a piece of candy, right? The sugar goes into our mouth. Our pancreas has to secrete insulin to actually navigate that sugar that we're rapidly absorbing and going into our bloodstream. And then it shuttles the sugar from our bloodstream into our cells to be used as energy. Now that feedback loop has to work really well. Think of it like a post office. You go to the post office, put your mail in, and then the mail carrier brings the mail and delivers it to the house. If for some reason, all of a sudden the post office is flooded with way too much mail, that single mail carrier cannot get all the mail out to the apartments and homes that it needs to. That's what happens when we take sugar in on an excessive basis. So let's say we're starting our morning and we're having juice, and then we're having a pastry. And then we're also having like, the pastry is sugar, but it's also a refined carbohydrate. So we have the combination of the two. And then for mid morning snack, we have little cookie. And then for lunch we're like, oh, I'm gonna have my regular lunch. And then I'm gonna have another cookie and maybe I'm gonna have a sugar sweetened cake.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Stop telling people how I live. Maya, are you watching me?

[Maya Feller]

And so we're like, sugar, sugar, it's just adding up. And it's like we are flooding the bloodstream and we're asking the pancreas to continually pump out insulin to handle all that's coming in internally. We're getting a blood sugar high. And then sometimes there's a crash and the crash feels bad. And then we're like, let's get that high one more time. So we're on the blood sugar roller coaster. And it's also. It comes with emotions, right? So it comes with like, oh, I feel terrible. And all the things, right? Hunger, satiety. Hunger, satiety. And so once that happens over and over for some people, there's the risk that your body, number one, is not gonna sensitize that insulin that the pancreas is pumping out. And so then what's ends up happening is that the sugar just stays in the bloodstream. So your insulin is high, and then your blood sugars are high. For some people, the pancreas just, like, punks out, and it's like, whoa, like, I'm on strike. I've done enough.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

As it should be, Right?

[Maya Feller]

And it's like, too much. And so then you're not producing insulin or enough insulin to handle all the sugar, and then your sugar is high, so it really puts you at risk for insulin resistance, and it also puts you at risk for diabetes. Here's the other thing that's interesting about that. Sugar can also then clog up your arteries, and it has the potential to elevate your cholesterol. So now we've added another part of your endocrine system into this conversation. So suddenly, we've just gone from your blood sugars are high to, oh, so are the fats that are circulating in your blood. So now we've got two issues potentially happening. And then, of course, there's the question of sugar getting stored in places like your liver and making fatty liver disease. I know. It is like, I don't like to do the bad parts.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Maya Feller]

That is so sick.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

No, but when we put it out

[Noah Michaelson]

there, it's good to know. Exactly. Now we know it's at stake.

[Maya Feller]

Yeah, exactly. So the challenge, and I think this is why people have such polarizing conversations around sugar, is because we are a society that has moved predominantly from the consumption of whole foods to fast, refined foods that have lots of added sugars, fats, and salts.

[Noah Michaelson]

Yeah.

[Maya Feller]

I never blame individuals because it's always the structures, right?

[Noah Michaelson]

Yeah, absolutely. The systems.

[Maya Feller]

It's the systems. 100%. But the truth is that we've gone from moving around outside to more sedentary lives inside and eating more food than our body can handle. And the net result is metabolic dysfunction.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

I feel like seasons and your own personal life affects how much you crave sugar too. I know that the winter time, I seek a little more comfort. I'm eating more sugar now than I am definitely in the summer when I'm running outside. Yeah, it's real. We have a listener question. Jillian asks, why do we crave sugar? And Noah follows up, do we? Is that something we're programmed to want. And can sugar be addictive?

[Noah Michaelson]

Yeah, I think people say, like, oh, I'm addicted to sugar. But like, are we actually or is that just a way of speaking?

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

And I have to add, like on top of that that I have felt addicted at times. I have felt like I've been eating too much sugar this week and now I need it. Like I want it at 3pm or whatever. So you tell me.

[Maya Feller]

Yeah, so there is some research. And it's so funny whenever, like, I remember years ago in like my early days of being a dietitian, and we'd go like, speak to people and they're like, never start with the research. There's like, nobody wants to know the research.

[Noah Michaelson]

We love the research.

[Maya Feller]

There is some research.

[Noah Michaelson]

Yeah, we love it.

[Maya Feller]

But there is some research that does suggest that sugar actually activates the pleasure center in our brains. And so it's a positive reward and it elicits feel good feelings.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

How could it not? Like, how could it not?

[Maya Feller]

It's amazing. It's delicious. It's so good. So, so, so good. So there is the potential for people to actually have sugar cravings. It's not inherently a bad thing to crave sugar. The challenge is that it's readily available. So when we crave it, it's not like we're having a cookie because very few of us are like sitting at home and baking cookies from scratch. It's like you go to the store and if there's a bakery by you, you can buy a cookie. But if there's not a bakery, you're going to buy a sleeve of 52 cookies.

[Noah Michaelson]

Right.

[Maya Feller]

And so now not 52 cookies in

[Noah Michaelson]

my home, nobody's eating one girl Scout cookie. No, you're eating the box, you know, or a sleeve for sure.

[Maya Feller]

And so I think that's the challenge, right, with the craving. That's really like, when I look at food and nutrition, like at large and where we get to those stuck points, it's the access. So it's right there for us. And then we get into this whole thing about willpower, which in my opinion, I'm like, it doesn't really exist because now you've got this physiological sensation saying, give me more. And like, in what way are you gonna wrestle with that when your body's like, that was delicious. You're so good. Yeah, you're amazing.

[Noah Michaelson]

And then you're setting yourself up to just to feel shitty about yourself because your willpower isn't strong enough.

[Maya Feller]

Right.

[Noah Michaelson]

You know, I hate that.

[Maya Feller]

I do too.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

We don't Keep boxes of anything in our house. It's a rule. I just told Noah we don't keep cereal in the house because we love Cinnamon Toast crunch. And it's gone in two days. When my partner and I have dessert, we'll go and buy a donut or, you know, our thing. Enjoy it often, but no packages of things because we do that thing and then feel terrible and guilty.

[Maya Feller]

Right?

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Yeah.

[Maya Feller]

And that's no fun. Right. Because the part of the guilt I found, especially when I'm working with people, is that the dark side of it is like a slippery, slippery slope.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Right.

[Maya Feller]

Cause it's never just like, oh, I ate the cookie. It's like my self worth is tied up.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

It's your self worth, especially as women, as queer people. Like shorts up at crowdface.

[Noah Michaelson]

Absolutely. We have enough to deal with. Yeah, yeah, that part we got my. You kind of addressed this a little bit earlier, but Erica is asking, what is the difference between white sugar, brown sugar, honey, agave, corn syrup? Is one of those considered healthier than the others? And I said that I wanted to step in and, like, flag the word healthier, because I'm not even really sure what that means here, but is there a better sugar than another sugar?

[Maya Feller]

Okay, so I want to tell you the difference between all those sugars. I actually have a little note that I wrote for myself about the different types of sugars, and I want to read it to you.

[Noah Michaelson]

Great.

[Maya Feller]

But I want to start, Noah, by addressing the healthy, because I'm with you 100%. I think that when we say healthy, it's code for you're doing good. You are good.

[Noah Michaelson]

Yes.

[Maya Feller]

Right. Because if you have that blue spirulina smoothie, then you're healthy and you're doing good, and you're good. But if you have a soda or something from a fast food chain, while you've made a bad choice and you are no good.

[Noah Michaelson]

Right.

[Maya Feller]

And so I think that there's this way that the word healthy has been weaponized. And first of all, there's not like an accepted definition of what healthy is. It's not like this is healthy. There are patterns of eating that support health, but there's not like an accepted definition of like this. Hands down, it's healthy. The other thing that I'll say is that sugar in the body gets recognized as sugar in the body.

[Noah Michaelson]

Yes.

[Maya Feller]

So if you have 15 grams of honey, it might have some more vitamins and minerals than brown sugar, but it's 15 grams of sugar. And so it's going to give a Similar blood sugar response, Whether or not it's the honey or the brown sugar. When we're thinking about white sugar versus brown sugar, honey, agave, and corn syrup, we're actually talking about the moisture content, and we're talking about where it's coming from. So white sugar can come from sugar beets, Corn syrup comes from corn, honey comes from, you know, the matter that bees make. I don't even know what to call that. And agave comes from the agave plant. They're refined in different ways, but the net result is still a sweet carbohydrate. Right, Right. And so when we're thinking about it from, like a molecular perspective or like the kind of base, it's really where it comes from.

[Noah Michaelson]

Yeah.

[Maya Feller]

And then the other thing that I would say is this. I didn't know that brown sugar actually has a. A bit more. That it has molasses and more moisture than white sugar.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Okay. So in lieu of the word healthy, I'm gonna say are there any of those sugars that would slow my tumbling into my hereditary, like, family history of diabetes or. No. All the same, I just have to be careful.

[Maya Feller]

It's the dose, it's the quantity, and it's what you eat it with. So, like, let's say you want to have your cake, and I know that you have a family history of diabetes. I would say consider having your cake after a meal. And especially if it's like a protein or fiber rich meal, what's gonna happen is that it's gonna act like a net in your body and slow down the absorption of that sugar.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Are some people more predisposed to a sweet tooth than others? Cause we all. All of the listeners know either you're that person or you know that person or you live with that person, where I would definitely skip lunch for if I could have something like a dessert instead. Like, are people. Is that real?

[Maya Feller]

So I have a question for you. Growing up. What. How did. For both of you, actually. So growing up, how did sugar and sweet things show up around your family table?

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Are you saying this is psychological? That it was like, if it was. Because. Yes, it was a reward in my family.

[Noah Michaelson]

Yeah. We didn't have sugary cereals, like, in the house, that kind of thing. Like, it was a treat when we got sugar. Yeah.

[Maya Feller]

And then was there any relationship between that and your adult relationship to sweets and sugar?

[Noah Michaelson]

Oh, I mean, I went hog wild. When I was, like, finally living on my own. I would eat an entire bag of also. This is something else. This is crazy. But Like, I would look at the nutritional aspects of something, like a bag of, like, Sour Patch Kids, and I'd be like, oh, well, there's no fat in this.

[Maya Feller]

Right.

[Noah Michaelson]

So these aren't bad for me, even though I'm eating, like, four days worth of my sugar intake, you know? And so, yeah, I just. I love. I love sweets now.

[Maya Feller]

Yeah.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Yeah, I absolutely get that. And also, this is, like, partly another question, like, and we talked about this. It affects your mood. It makes me happy.

[Maya Feller]

Of course.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

I don't know if that's physiological or psychological.

[Maya Feller]

It is 100%. Like, you're. It's totally. Like, your brain's like, good job, great. But I do. I mean, I do think that. But, I mean, we know that we're born preferring sweet, right? That there's, like, some kind of protective mechanism where when we, like, lived in the days of yore and we were cave people, like, we stayed away from bitter things because those were the things that were most likely to be poisonous. Well, like, yeah, we've evolved, but we still love sugar, fat, and salt.

[Noah Michaelson]

You see those videos of, like, a baby getting sugar for the first time, and, like, their face is just lighting up.

[Maya Feller]

Yes.

[Noah Michaelson]

It's real.

[Maya Feller]

It's never as. As good as the first time.

[Noah Michaelson]

Never. So true.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Oh, it's pretty close. Sometimes, if you've had a bad day. Yeah. No, but I love those videos of the. They're like, eyes go wide. That's how I know. Yeah.

[Maya Feller]

Yeah. I would want to look and, like, dig a little deeper and find out, like, you know, is there truly a physiological, like, genetic component? And from what I've read, like, I feel like the jury's still out. But I also do know that a lot of it is learned. Right. So it's like, environment. Like, the environment that you're in will kind of dictate where your flavor palette goes.

[Noah Michaelson]

Makes sense, for sure. And also, so often we are getting sugar at, like, special times. It is a birthday party. It is Christmas time. Like, I think we also make those associations where I definitely do that. That makes total sense.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Yeah.

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[Noah Michaelson]

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[Maya Feller]

So good you'll want to leave a voicemail about it. Sell your car today on Carvana.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Pickup fees may apply.

[Noah Michaelson]

This is a great question from Lily. She said, we hear a lot about how the American diet has a lot of hidden sugar in it. Products that you wouldn't expect. How do we control how much sugar we're really eating? Do you have any tips for how to avoid hidden sugar? That's so true. If you look at the back of any product, even bread, even, like, anything tomato sauce.

[Maya Feller]

Yeah. I love that question that Lily asked. I mean, this is like. So there's like the. There's the dietitian part of me, and then there's like the policy part of me. And they're having an internal tug of war right now because I kind of want to, like, start by being like, it's not the responsibility of the individual at the point of purchase to have to make these decisions. And then I'm like, all right, well, this is where we're living right now. That's where we are. So how do we navigate the foodscape? So I'm gonna just say this is a both and situation, because both are true. Where I really do think that a lot of this needs to shift at kind of a policy Level in terms of how foods are manufactured and made, things that are not in their homely processed form. Because I've seen other governments step down on sugar over time, like nationwide initiatives at the, you know, in response to high rates of cardiovascular disease or high rates of blood sugars. So it can be done. Now back to reality where it's like, the onus is on us, so we're gonna figure it out. You have to be an informed consumer. And the thing that I like to remind folks is when you look at the ingredient list at the bottom of the nutrition facts panel, whatever is first on the list takes up the majority of the package. So if it says brand cereal on the front and it has a heart healthy claim, and the first ingredient is sugar lies.

[Noah Michaelson]

Right, Right.

[Maya Feller]

Not heart healthy. Right. Because it's like, I mean, they can't make that claim and have that be the first ingredient. But like, if you know what I mean, if you're seeing a conflict with what the front of package claims are with that ingredient list, then you know something's awry. So whatever the first five ingredients are, especially the number one, that's the majority of what's in that packaged good. So make a choice based on that. Number two, the nutrition facts label, you're going to see added sugar called out. And so anything when we're looking at percentage of the daily value that's close to 5% is considered low, and anything close to 20% is considered high. Okay, so if it says 25% of the daily value in your added sugar. Well, that's a lot of sugar.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Yeah, because there's already sugar in there. Because added sugar is what they've put in on top.

[Noah Michaelson]

Yeah.

[Maya Feller]

This is why I'm saying, I'm like, there's that internal push and pull because now suddenly we have to become nutrition scientists and we have to use our emotional bandwidth in the grocery store or online shopping, whatever, to actually have the wherewithal to focus and read and then make a choice based on a number of variables and price.

[Noah Michaelson]

Absolutely.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

That part it's expensive to eat.

[Maya Feller]

Well, for sure.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

And here especially, you know, in territories like Puerto Rico, Google the Jones act in Puerto Rico. Like, it's even worse in some places in America where it's like, good food is, I hate to do the good and bad, and I'm doing it. But food with more ultra processed food cheaper, you know, with more sugar cheaper.

[Noah Michaelson]

The other thing too is like, you do have to be sort of like a math major too. You look at a box of cereal and then you have to look at the serving size. The serving size is only half a cup. Serving size, 10 grams. I know. It's like, it's so little. And so I don't think most people in general look at the nutritional facts.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

No.

[Maya Feller]

Who has time for that?

[Noah Michaelson]

Who has time? And also, like, they're like. Like, I want my food maybe to be joyful or, like, something, you know, and so there are so many things that go into. Feels like the odds are stacked against us.

[Maya Feller]

I know. And I always, like, when I'm working with people one on one, like, I always want to be hopeful. And what I say to, like, what I remind people is your baseline health in terms of your nutrition. Right. Like, the what, Those parts that are the levers that have the control that's really based on what you do the majority of time.

[Noah Michaelson]

Yeah.

[Maya Feller]

So, like, if they're outliers, let them be outliers. It's not going to end you. But if the outliers become the mainstay, then we're like, okay, let's figure it out. But I do feel like the hopeful glimmer is that control the things, and you need maybe three or four of them that you can control. Right. So if we're talking about sugar, then I'm like, what's your hydration? Right. What's your fiber intake? And so those two things we can already say, like, all right, maybe I'm not gonna say, like, I'm gonna reduce my sugar, but maybe what I'm gonna do is say I'm gonna increase my hydration and increase my fiber intake. And then. That's right. Switch those levers, just kind of do an automatic where the sugar starts to go down and you're still infusing to your point, Noah, some joy.

[Noah Michaelson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Maya Feller]

Because food needs to. It needs to be good.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Yeah, absolutely. Do you know what has changed my life as far as, like, you know, eating a little bit more balance, but not ruining my life? Just TikTok recipes, really? Just Instagram and TikTok, like, just put some keywords in. I have cooked so many delicious things that are much higher in fiber. Fiber's the new it girl, as we learned.

[Maya Feller]

Yes.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

You know, incorporated more greens. You know, I don't read labels and stuff, but I know the Harvard plate, what it's called. I know what I'm supposed to be. Kind of how my plates are supposed to look like. I'm, you know, it's micro dosing for me. Like, I'm doing a little more vegetables and fruits, but really go on social media and just like, put some stuff in and people are making. Really, I'm enjoying this. It's like, okay, delightful.

[Noah Michaelson]

I am at the other end where I practice, like the 80, 20 kind of thing, where I eat really well 80% of the week, and then 20% of the week I don't even think about it. And I have what I want to have. And, like, that's worked out pretty well for me.

[Maya Feller]

Yeah.

[Noah Michaelson]

So I think you, like. Yeah, you have to just sort of like, find something that works for you and not be so hard on yourself.

[Maya Feller]

Yes, I agree. I agree. I think that's like the. Find something that works and don't be so hard. Give yourself some grace. Because the truth is, like, there's enough. There's so much like. And I. And I have, like. I can't tell you how many people, like, were in session and they're like, I just did it wrong. And they're crying.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

But this is.

[Maya Feller]

This is what people have so much anxiety and guilt around food because it's linked to your morality. So it's like, sugar's not going to be the end of you.

[Noah Michaelson]

Yeah.

[Maya Feller]

It's literally not. I promise you, it's not going to be the end of you.

[Noah Michaelson]

Carly wants to know, is someone who loves mainlining cookies before bed? I mean, I feel that, but is sugar preventing me from sleeping?

[Maya Feller]

Well, yes.

[Noah Michaelson]

Okay.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

She's like, I wake up at 2am and I don't know why.

[Maya Feller]

She's like, what?

[Noah Michaelson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Oh, my God.

[Noah Michaelson]

So related to that, like, are there better times to get our sugar? I mean, I don't know if people are really thinking that way. Like, I'm gonna have my sugar in the morning, but what do you think about timing of sugar?

[Maya Feller]

I rarely am just like, yeah, but Carly. Yes. I would recommend pushing that main lining of those cookies, like, just a little earlier in the day.

[Noah Michaelson]

Yeah.

[Maya Feller]

Ideally, if it could be between lunch and dinner and really not, like, lead into the evening. Because remember, there's like a metabolic process that needs to happen in order for your body to handle the sugars. So you're now asking your body to, like, get up and, like, get involved with, like, moving that sugar out of your bloodstream. And if you go just to lie down and you're not moving around, you're not actually giving the assist to the insulin that it needs.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Okay.

[Maya Feller]

So, like, that's the other thing that I don't love then I'm kind of concerned about, like, elevation in blood sugar as you're sleeping. I don't Want any crashes also while you're sleeping? I would like. I said, yeah, try for lunch or

[Noah Michaelson]

dinner because then you'll be more active during the day. More time for your body to sort of deal with that.

[Maya Feller]

And it could be also with a meal. Right. So it could be that, like you're having that sugar around the time that you're having a meal. So the absorption is getting slowed down

[Noah Michaelson]

a little bit because there's all that other stuff going with.

[Maya Feller]

Exactly. There's not protein.

[Noah Michaelson]

That's really interesting.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

That's useful information. Speaking of insulin, how do people get diabetes? I asked from a person in the South Asian community and black and brown people, as you know, so heavy in

[Maya Feller]

our heredity, like, your genes can be a predictor. It's not necessarily your destiny. And so, yes, we do see more high rates of diabetes in South Asian communities and also black communities, like, hands down, 100%. One of the ways to get around it is to actually modify how the carbohydrates are coming in to your body. And so in some cultures, we love our starchy vegetables and we love them in large quantities. I'm not saying that that's going to give you diabetes, but what I am saying is if you reduce the quantity of the starchy vegetable and increase the fiber and the protein. So my family's from Trinidad and Tobago, and we love roti. I love roti. We love chana, chickpeas. We like them curried. And if you have roti, you could have chana and pumpkin and spinach. You could have chicken, you could have shrimp, you could have whatever in there, right?

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

I'm so hungry right now.

[Maya Feller]

I know, I know. Listen, I mean, give me a curry crab and dumpling, and I'm sad, but let's say you're having that or you're having doubles, which is like maybe a fried dough. Sometimes the base is chickpeas or lentils or some kind of legume. And then you're putting chickpeas inside. Those are delicious. Both of those things that I just said. However, they can be carbohydrate rich. And so I would say when I'm working with someone, not don't eat the foods that are beloved to you. Rather, let's think about what you're putting in there. So if you're like me and you want the pumpkin and the potato and the chana, which is starch, starch, starch, maybe ask the person who's doing it to put a little bit less of each, or choose one plus do spinach and chicken, right? Because those are possibilities. So now we're just talking about modifying what shows up inside the roti so that I still get what I want, but I'm not getting it in the clinic.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Awareness.

[Maya Feller]

Yeah.

[Noah Michaelson]

You deprive yourself.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Yeah.

[Noah Michaelson]

But you can find ways to sort of rejigger the. The equation.

[Maya Feller]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I like that. Right, so it's like you just turn it around and don't have, like four doubles.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Yeah. Unless it's like Christmas time. And then do whatever you want. And with diabetes, I just want to clarify, is that the same thing as insulin resistance?

[Maya Feller]

So insulin resistance is when your body's not sensitizing insulin, and diabetes is when your blood sugars are high and they remain high over time.

[Noah Michaelson]

Okay.

[Maya Feller]

So there is a test that happens for to have someone be diagnosed with diabetes, and you need three tests over, you know, like to make sure. And you do an oral glucose tolerance test. And basically what you're looking at is can the person tolerate X amount of sugar going into their body and have the pancreas respond in the appropriate way by secreting the right amount of insulin? And then within an hour and within two hours, where are the blood sugars?

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Okay.

[Maya Feller]

Ideally, what we want to see is two hours, within two hours of meal, that your blood sugars go back under 100. Because then it's this idea that your body can actually navigate the sugar that's

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

coming and processing it in a timely manner.

[Maya Feller]

Exactly. Got it. Okay. Exactly.

[Noah Michaelson]

This just sort of came to me when we had a dentist on for an episode about teeth. The dentist was saying that with sugar, if you're going to eat sugar, eat it all at once and then go brush your teeth. Because it's better than having a little bit of sugar throughout the day where it's just gonna be sitting in your teeth. Is that true for eating sugar too? Like, if we're gonna have a bunch of sugar, should we try and have it all in one sitting rather than having it throughout the day, or does that matter?

[Maya Feller]

So I think it depends on how much. Right. So it's like, are you having an American Coke? That's like 50 grams of sugar. Are you having the Mexican Coke? That's 20 grams of sugar. Right, right. So. So if you're gonna be like, as they say, now I'm gonna show my age housing a 2 liter of soda. I'm like, I wish you luck. I wanna see, like, how your body responds to that. Yeah, yeah. It might be better for your teeth, but I would not recommend that. But then the other thing too Is like, I don't know that I would want you to constantly expose yourself to 50 grams. 50 grams? 50 grams. I mean, a, A, it's way more than any recommendation. And B, you're also asking your body to do that metabolic process, but, like, at like Olympic speed.

[Noah Michaelson]

Right.

[Maya Feller]

I understand what the dentist was saying. Yeah. Because also you don't want the carbohydrates sitting on the teeth because that, like, promotes the cavities.

[Noah Michaelson]

Right.

[Maya Feller]

And then it also digestion starts in the mouth and there's this whole, like, process. I get it. I understand what they were saying, but

[Noah Michaelson]

it's more complicated than that. Yeah, that makes sense.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

I have a good one from Lindsay. Is it possible to adjust your brain or taste buds to lower amounts of sugar? And if so, how do you do it?

[Maya Feller]

Yes, Lindsay, yes. It's totally possible. So last summer I was in Switzerland and I was visiting this food lab. Like, it was a food science and technology lab at this university. And I remember having a conversation with the dean because I was saying, so talk to me about, like, how this tiny nation reduced sugar in all of its CPG goods, like over time. And he was like, well, that was a 15 year initiative. And I was like, oh, wow. Exactly. And I was like, oh, 15 years. He was like, yeah, it was an incremental reduction of sugar because basically what had to happen was people had to enjoy the foods but not recognize that there was a market difference in the sugar.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

That's kind of genius.

[Noah Michaelson]

Yeah.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Like a little less at a time.

[Maya Feller]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

We're definitely not smart enough to recognize that.

[Maya Feller]

I love that.

[Noah Michaelson]

Yeah. I mean, Lindsay was saying that she loves her coffee super sweet. So you're literally saying, well, just put a little bit less sugar every week or whatever. You're.

[Maya Feller]

You go down. I remember years ago, I did like a whole caffeine reduction, like, thing, and it was the same idea. It's a step down. And I almost don't want to use this example because I am not saying this one to one, but for people who engage in smoking cessation, those programs span months. And so I would encourage us again, sugar and cigarettes are not the same, but cessation or reduction of anything takes time. Right. We have learned behaviors around food. You're not going to wake up one day and be like, I'm not doing that anymore. What you want to do is say, okay, this is my, my plan. This is my goal. I want to get to here and what are the ways that I can do it without depriving myself?

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

I did this with salt. Like, I just started cooking in my home with, like, a little less salt. And now when I go out to eat or I get food from Adam, like, this is so salty. And my taste buds have. I don't know if they've changed actually, but, like, I'm tasting differently.

[Noah Michaelson]

Yeah. You hear that from people who have backed off the sugar. They'll say, now, sugar is so sweet to me, and I don't need as big of a piece of cake or whatever it is. I don't really trust those people, though, who go. Who just. Who are like, no sugar.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Oh, yeah. I don't believe them.

[Noah Michaelson]

Do you have joy?

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

That's true. I think they're mainly mainlining cookies at night. But they're not being open about it, like, Carly. Like, I think they're getting it.

[Noah Michaelson]

I just. I don't know.

[Maya Feller]

I mean, I think that sugar is such a. It's probably like, sugar and alcohol are two of the most hotly contested, like, in our foodscape. Like, people, they will dig their heels in and, like, actually die for it.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Right.

[Maya Feller]

Where I'm like, folks, we don't have to be that serious.

[Noah Michaelson]

Yeah.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

We don't need to be this, like, extreme.

[Maya Feller]

Right? We don't. We don't. Because the truth is that we're all walking contradictions.

[Noah Michaelson]

Yeah.

[Maya Feller]

And, like, I feel like when I work with people, the better we can actually, like, recognize that and not give ourselves too much shit for it. The better off we are.

[Noah Michaelson]

Yeah. And I think it is, like, overcompensating because we are told, I mean, we are eating too much sugar.

[Maya Feller]

Yes.

[Noah Michaelson]

The average American is eating way too much sugar. And so I think then we get so scared that they're like, you have to get rid of all of it. And it doesn't have to be all or nothing.

[Maya Feller]

But then on the other side, like, the average person living in this country is not eating enough fruits and vegetables. And I'm like, friends, how come we're not clamoring for the fruits and veggies?

[Noah Michaelson]

Yeah, well, that's the thing, too. So, you know, I love a bowl of grapes for dessert. That is my sweet treat. But then I've heard people say, like, well, that's just actually a sugar bomb. You are actually eating as much sugar as if you were having a bowl of chocolate.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

But you're getting so many other nutrients. Right. That's a part of it.

[Maya Feller]

Well, so here's. I mean, so I have, like, this is my clap back about the grapes. Like, number one, grapes are a berry, and they're Filled with polyphenols. They're antioxidant rich. So no, it's not like sitting down and having a bowl of sugar.

[Noah Michaelson]

Right.

[Maya Feller]

That's number one. You're welcome.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

I'm like, have the grapes.

[Maya Feller]

Have the grapes.

[Noah Michaelson]

I'm not gonna stop having the grapes.

[Maya Feller]

No, don't stop having the grapes. I also think that it's like they're hydrating. There's like so many amazing characteristics that grapes have. But this goes back to the whole morality. They're like, well, you're just not doing it right. And it's like, actually, you know what, it works for your body. You're healthy, your labs are fine.

[Noah Michaelson]

Yeah.

[Maya Feller]

Thank you.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Yeah.

[Noah Michaelson]

I have a question that I'm scared to ask you.

[Maya Feller]

Okay.

[Noah Michaelson]

I love chemical sweeteners. I love Splenda, I love a diet soda. It doesn't taste like sugar, it tastes like chemicals, and I love those chemicals. Where are we at currently? I know it's such a hotly debated thing about. This is going to give you cancer. All of it. What do we know right now about. About those sweeteners?

[Maya Feller]

Yeah. So this is what I would say about them.

[Noah Michaelson]

Yeah.

[Maya Feller]

Number one, they're a fantastic alternative for people who are looking for a low or no calorie sugar substitute.

[Noah Michaelson]

Right.

[Maya Feller]

That. That's point blank. There's a question about do they disrupt the gut microbiome?

[Noah Michaelson]

Yes.

[Maya Feller]

I have read research that says yes, 100%. I have read research that says, absolutely not. So what I end up saying to people is the same way that we say, use sugar in moderation. Use those in moderation. And then the other thing too is that people are like, well, they're great for weight loss. I rarely talk about weight loss because that's just like, not part of my lexicon. But what the long term research says is that actually it's not.

[Noah Michaelson]

Right.

[Maya Feller]

Right. So it's like, if you're looking for an alternative, it's a fantastic alternative. Use it the way that you would sugar, which is in moderation.

[Noah Michaelson]

Yeah. I've heard that for some people, it can make them crave sweet things even more. So you're getting this diet soda, zero calorie. But then you actually, like Carly, are mainlining the cookies because it inspires that. They're still not totally sure about that either. But I mean, I love that. I love you just being like, moderation with everything. And don't deprive yourself.

[Maya Feller]

Yeah. Because why?

[Noah Michaelson]

Yeah.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

And do you feel like with the chemical sweeteners, it's kind of early to see what the long term effects are like, maybe in 30 years will have a better idea. Or you're just like, we know, like. And it doesn't, you know, what we know now is what we'll probably know in 30 years.

[Maya Feller]

Well, they've been around for a good amount of time. Some of them have been around since like the early 70s. So, you know, so we're for sure over 30 years in. Okay. And there is so much, like, people are really investigating because it is such a. It's heavily funded and both parties have real interests in like, putting research out there. So people are. They're investigating and they continue to investigate. I remember in particular that there was a question about cancer, right?

[Noah Michaelson]

Yes.

[Maya Feller]

And the quantity that one would have to consume is something that you couldn't consume in your life.

[Noah Michaelson]

It was like a dumpsterful. I remember this because it was in rats. I think it was aspartame in particular. There was signs of cancer from that. But again, like you said, it was just astronomical amounts.

[Maya Feller]

Right. And so that's also part of the challenge is that, like, research studies are just not like one to one. Sometimes it's like we're looking at an apple versus, like an orange and it just doesn't line up. And what happens in animal studies doesn't necessarily mean that we can replicate it in a human study and we don't have those same findings. But then we err on the side of caution. But then you go to other countries and there's different guidelines and rules. And so then we say, well, we must be missing something. Which is why I say it's a good option and use it in moderation.

[Noah Michaelson]

Yeah.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Okay. Maya, what's the one thing you want people to keep in mind when they're considering their sugar consumption? Like, if they just take one thing away.

[Maya Feller]

Yeah. So the one thing that I want folks to think about is that it's not all or nothing. Right. So it's like if you decide to go on a journey where you're gonna reduce your sugar intake if it takes longer, or if you're in a situation where you don't have access to the thing that you used to have, or maybe you eat a little bit more sugar than you intended to, all is not lost. It is a process success. It's a sum of a number of parts. It is not all or nothing. And give yourself grace, man. Because the foodscape, even as a dietitian, like 15 years in, I'm always like, oh, well, I didn't see that one coming. Yeah, right. So give yourself grace. Step lightly. And you know, if you want to have a cookie, bake it. Bring some friends over and enjoy it.

[Noah Michaelson]

Yeah. Now I want a cookie and I want a Coke Zero. I want them both.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Well, you have permission to have it.

[Noah Michaelson]

Exactly. And it's not even close to my bedtime either. Yeah, I'm gonna do it close to mine. Maya, thank you so much. This was amazing.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

I love it. I feel good and warm and happy inside and not terrified. So that's great.

[Noah Michaelson]

That's always a plus.

[Maya Feller]

Yeah, that's a plus. I'm so glad. Thank you for having me.

[Commercial Narrator]

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[Sarah (Olive and June Founder)]

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[Noah Michaelson]

Yep.

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Even on weekends, it's pretty much all he talks about. In a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capitalone.com bank capital1NA member FDIC.

[Noah Michaelson]

Okay, it's time for Better in Five. These are our top five takeaways from this episode.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

All right, number one, sugar does not need to be maligned. We use it for energy. But when we have a little too much, that gets to be a problem.

[Noah Michaelson]

Or a lot too much.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Or a lot too much, like Grady.

[Noah Michaelson]

Number two, sugar is sugar is sugar. It doesn't matter what form it's in. Your body still recognizes it as sugar.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Number three, if you want to be a little more sugar savvy, just learn to read the nutrition label. Just a little bit of awareness and information about that can really help.

[Noah Michaelson]

Number four, avoid consuming a ton of sugar. Or if you're like our friend Carly mainlining cookies right before bed because it's hard on your body if it has to process all of that while you're resting.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

And number five, you can train yourself to crave less sugar. The key is minimizing your intake over time.

[Noah Michaelson]

Okay, Raj, have you been doing sugar wrong?

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

You know I have. You know I have. The world knows I have.

[Noah Michaelson]

I love you for doing it wrong.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

I mean, I have never met a cookie I didn't love. Yeah, here's the thing. I really loved the idea that she talked about, like, minimizing your sugar intake a little. So you're kind of fooling your brain, which is the only way how I'm going to avoid diabetes, essentially.

[Noah Michaelson]

Yeah. But no cold turkey for you.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

No cold turkey, and that seems mean. You know, I try to be careful about things, but I am gonna start eating a little bit less.

[Noah Michaelson]

Okay.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

And, yeah, it feels okay to me. What about you?

[Noah Michaelson]

I think I'm gonna stick to the 8020 rule where, like, yeah, I. The 20% of the time, I'm gonna eat my sugar. There's this bakery here in New York called Little Cupcake Shop. There's one not far from the studio, actually. And I've started going every weekend and getting one weekend night, Benji and I share some cake, and I look forward to it, and I love it. And so, yeah, I love the idea that it doesn't have to be all or nothing. And I don't know. I'm never gonna give up my sugar. I can't do it.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

You don't need to. You're doing it right.

[Noah Michaelson]

Thank you. Anyway, until next time. As long as there are things to get wrong, we're gonna be right here to help you do em better.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Love you guys. Am I Doing It Wrong Is a co production between HuffPost and Acast.

[Noah Michaelson]

Our producers are Eve Bishop, Carmen Borca Carrillo and Malia Agadello.

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Our executive producers are Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rutter.

[Noah Michaelson]

Special thanks to HuffPost's head of audience,

[Raj Panjabi Johnson]

Abby Williams, Head of Video Will Took,

[Noah Michaelson]

as well as Kate Palmer, Marta Rodriguez and Terry d'. Angelo.

[Maya Feller]

And we're your hosts Raj Panjabi Johnson and Noah Michaelson.

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[Noah Michaelson]

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[Capital One Bank Advertiser]

fees or minimums on checking accounts. It's no wonder the Capital One bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One One. If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends it's pretty much all he talks about in a good way. What's in your wallet terms apply. See capital1.com Bank Capital One NA Member FDIC

[Commercial Narrator]

have you ever been stuck on a weight loss plateau, trying everything and anything you can to lose that extra weight and reach peak health? We've all been there, but Noom's unlocked a secret to reaching the mountaintop goin micro the Noom GLP1 microdose program starts at $99 and is delivered to your door in seven days. Start your microdose GLP1 journey today at Noom.com that's N-O-O-M.com Noom micro changes big results Noom GLP1 RX program involves healthy diet, exercise and support. Individual results may vary. Meds and personalization based on clinical need. Not reviewed by FDA for safety, efficacy or quality. No affiliation with Novo Nordisk, Inc. The only US source of FDA approved semaglutide. Not available in all 50 US states.