Amanpour

Episode: A Historic Religious Reconciliation
Date: October 23, 2025
Host: Christiane Amanpour (CNN International)
Notable Guests: Christopher Lamb, Annie Lennox, Sarah Leah Whitson

Episode Overview

This episode of Amanpour explores three major segments:

1. The historic meeting between Britain's King Charles and Pope Leo—marking the first time in 500 years a British monarch has prayed with the Pope, symbolizing a major step in Catholic-Protestant reconciliation.
2. An intimate conversation with music legend Annie Lennox about her career, iconic style, and new visual memoir, Annie Lennox Retrospective.
3. A harrowing investigation into the treatment of Palestinians in Israeli prisons, with human rights expert Sarah Leah Whitson.

Each segment delivers deep insights, candid personal reflections, and nuanced analysis on global affairs, culture, and human rights.

Segment 1: Historic Religious Reconciliation – King Charles and Pope Leo

With Christopher Lamb, Vatican correspondent and religious scholar

The Meaning & Context of the Meeting

• Setting: British King Charles and Queen Camilla visited the Vatican and prayed with Pope Leo—first such act since Henry VIII's 16th-century schism from Rome.
• Significance:
  • A powerful gesture of reconciliation after centuries marked by conflict and suspicion between British monarchy (Anglican) and the Vatican (Catholic) ([00:04]-[02:34]).

"To see this moment where a king and a pope, an English king and a pope, were praying together in the Sistine Chapel... it really was an extraordinary moment."
— Christopher Lamb ([02:34])

Historical Backdrop

• Henry VIII’s break from Rome, conflict over divorce and re-marriage, formation of the Church of England.
• Relations only formally resumed in 1982.
• King Charles’ own deep and ecumenical faith seen as key ([02:34]-[04:00]).

Symbolism & Contemporary Resonance

• Buckingham Palace broke tradition, allowing images of the monarch praying.
• The message: Overcoming historic divides—applies not just to Christian sects, but interfaith relations globally ([04:00]-[04:41]).

"This visit sent a message that divisions and disagreements of the past can be overcome, that they don’t have to define the future."
— Christopher Lamb ([04:41])

Remaining Doctrinal Differences

• Despite profound differences (notably ordination of women), dialogue has increased.
  • Church of England permits female bishops; the Catholic Church does not yet ([04:41]-[06:19]).
  • Recent appointment of Sarah Mullally as Archbishop of Canterbury highlights this ([06:19]).

Evolution of the Relationship

• The visit was initiated under Pope Francis but enacted by Pope Leo—continuing a 60-year movement to bridge divides since Archbishop Michael Ramsay met Pope Paul VI in the 1960s.
• King Charles also visited important basilicas symbolizing unity: "That they may be one." ([06:59]-[08:38])

Pope Leo’s Vision

• First American Pope, grew up in South America, shaped by years in Peru.
• Continues Pope Francis’s focus: social justice, environmentalism, reform—including within the church itself.
• Noted for a quieter, more process-oriented demeanor than Francis ([09:09]-[10:43]).

"His vision of the church is really shaped by his years in Peru... very much in line with the Francis vision."
— Christopher Lamb ([09:09])

Engagement with Global Issues

• Pope Leo, like Francis, addresses U.S. social policy critically—calls for holistic "pro-life" ethic encompassing immigration, death penalty, and not solely abortion.

  • Memorable quote critiquing narrow focus:

  "Someone who says that I'm against abortion, but I'm in agreement with the inhuman treatment of immigrants... I don't know if that's pro life."
  — Pope Leo (paraphrased by Amanpour, [11:15])

• Lamb emphasizes: Leo’s challenge to U.S. conservatives, insistence that defending life is broader than one political issue, even amid backlash ([11:36]-[13:14]).

Segment 2: Annie Lennox on Artistry, Iconography, and Change

Conversation with Annie Lennox on her new memoir and enduring influence

Launching the Visual Memoir

• Annie Lennox joins from LA to discuss Annie Lennox Retrospective, a curated collection of photos, lyrics, memories ([14:06]-[14:47]).
• Signature “Sweet Dreams” image symbolizes artistic arrival and evolution after prior struggles with The Tourists, earlier band ([15:17]-[16:18]).

Creative Partnership and Personal Journeys

• Discussion of collaboration and relationship with Dave Stewart—balancing heartbreak and a strong professional bond to create “Eurythmics” ([16:18]-[17:02]).

"There was myself and Dave, and that's one and one, but we made three because Eurythmics was bigger than us."
— Annie Lennox ([17:02])

• Sweet Dreams was written at the brink of quitting—a symbol of unexpected success after setbacks.

Why a Visual Memoir?

• Decision informed by thousands of images available online.
• Lennox reflects on nostalgia, artistic process, and the layers beneath every public image ([18:34]-[20:05]).

"There's so much work behind every single image in this book that people don't know... It represents a nostalgia and represents certain accomplishments."
— Annie Lennox ([18:34])

David Bowie Influence and Iconic Performance

• Amanpour notes visual connections to Bowie; Lennox recalls the nerves and surprise around performing with her idol—emphasizing creative spontaneity ([20:05]-[23:39]).
  • Memorable moment: Bowie surprised on stage by her outfit—a blend of “Joan of Arc” and “Grace Jones.”

Gender, Empowerment, and Style

• Lennox reflects on her androgynous look and breaking conventions in pre-gender-fluid late 70s/early 80s scene.

"It was about empowerment. This is before we were talking gender fluid. I was given the label gender bender... But I just wanted to break with convention and then break it again and become female."
— Annie Lennox ([24:34])

The Work Behind the Art

• Sustained creative process: ten years of intensive Eurythmics touring, writing, and icon-making ([27:39]-[28:44]).
• Emphasizes need for boundaries, “normal” life outside fame.

Personal Roots and History’s Influence

• Lennox showcases photos of her Scottish maternal ancestors—contrasts modern stardom with working-class, pre-modern struggle ([29:16]-[30:52]).
• Sees the past as an essential backdrop to her sense of self, artistry, and creative drive.

Music Industry, Then and Now

• Notes new technology, competition, and challenges facing today’s musicians—including AI ([31:11]-[32:12]).

"Now you have thousands... everybody has the possibility to make music in their bedrooms. I don't know how I would honestly have fared if I had to be a young musician now."
— Annie Lennox ([31:11])

Segment 3: Allegations of Abuse in Israeli Prisons

With Sarah Leah Whitson, Executive Director, Democracy for the Arab World Now (DAWN); Interviewed by Michelle Martin

The Human Rights Context

• Recent release of roughly 2,000 Palestinian prisoners as part of a ceasefire deal, paralleling hostage releases ([33:09]).
• Massive uptick in detentions after October 7, 2023 attacks; most held under "Unlawful Combatants Law" or "Administrative Detention"—no charges required, often based on secret evidence ([33:54]-[35:03]).

Nature of Detention and Due Process

• Approximately 1,700 of those released never charged or put through any real judicial process—most had hearings as short as two minutes, with no opportunity for defense ([35:13]-[36:37]).
• Some 250–300 had been convicted in Israeli courts, some for serious crimes, others for lesser political offenses; about 150 exiled upon release ([36:48]).

Conditions and Alleged Abuses

• Testimonies and reports: torture, sexual violence (primarily against men), deprivation of food, water, and medical care; “near starvation” observed among released prisoners.
  • Notably, 135 returned bodies exhibited signs of extreme torture and execution ([37:51]-[39:00]).
• Israeli authorities claim inmates' rights are “upheld by professionally trained staff,” but Whitson and numerous rights groups dispute this, citing deaths, Red Cross being barred, documented abuses ([41:34]).

"The fact that over 80 Palestinian prisoners have died in custody... The International Committee of the Red Cross has been banned from actually monitoring prison conditions is yet another indication."
— Sarah Leah Whitson ([41:34])

Legal and Moral Arguments

• Whitson asserts that Israel is failing to meet international legal standards (access to food, water, lawyers, contact with family).
• On "rough justice" arguments:
  • International law must apply consistently, regardless of atrocities by others (i.e., Hamas).
  • Israel’s occupation and legal structure (e.g., administrative detention) under international scrutiny for years ([46:02]-[48:39]).

Key Quotes

"If governments act as brutally and viciously as the people they are purporting to fight against, it's really just a race to the bottom."
— Sarah Leah Whitson ([46:47])

"Israel is not above the law that applies to the United States or to China or to Russia..."
— Sarah Leah Whitson ([45:11])

Segment 4: Brief Feature – Emma Mazenga, 92-Year-Old Elite Sprinter

A story of resilience and longevity

• Emma Mazenga, 92, continues to break world records for her age group; scientists study her extraordinary physiology ([49:44]-[52:42]).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Christopher Lamb:

  "Divisions and disagreements of the past can be overcome, that they don’t have to define the future." ([04:41])

• Pope Leo (paraphrased):

  "Someone who says that I'm against abortion, but I'm in agreement with the inhuman treatment of immigrants... I don't know if that's pro life." ([11:15])

• Annie Lennox:

  "There was myself and Dave, and that's one and one, but we made three because Eurythmics was bigger than us." ([17:02])
  "I just wanted to break with convention and then break it again and become female. So there's always this possibility to keep evolving and keep changing. That's what artistry is about." ([24:34])

• Sarah Leah Whitson:

  "The International Committee of the Red Cross has been banned from actually monitoring prison conditions is yet another indication." ([41:34])
  "If governments act as brutally and viciously as the people they are purporting to fight against, it's really just a race to the bottom." ([46:47])

Key Timestamps

• 00:04 – 02:34: Amanpour sets up the Vatican meeting; opening discussion with Christopher Lamb
• 02:34 – 06:19: Lamb on symbolism, history, and doctrinal differences
• 06:19 – 10:43: Origins and broader context of the meeting; evolution under Pope Francis and Leo
• 11:15 – 13:14: The Pope on “pro-life” and U.S. social issues; Lamb unpacks Leo’s vision
• 14:06 – 20:05: Annie Lennox on memoir, style, partnership, creative breakthroughs
• 20:05 – 24:34: Bowie stories, stage persona, gender, empowerment
• 24:34 – 28:44: Androgyny, creativity, industry pressures, staying grounded
• 29:16 – 32:12: Ancestral roots, music industry then and now, technology
• 33:09 – 45:11: Whitson on Palestinian detentions in Israel, legal framework, abuses
• 45:11 – 48:39: Morality, law, response to “rough justice”
• 49:44 – 52:42: Emma Mazenga’s inspiring athletic achievements
• 52:42 – End: Closing notes, music from Annie Lennox

Summary Takeaways

• Interfaith History: A remarkable milestone in overcoming centuries-old divides between Anglican and Catholic leadership, pointing to the potential for broader ecumenical and interfaith dialogue.
• Papal Leadership: Pope Leo represents both continuity and change, broadening the Church’s engagement with contemporary social justice and environmental issues, while facing criticism from traditionalists.
• Creative Icon: Annie Lennox’s artistic risk-taking and constant reinvention continue to influence generations—her reflective new memoir explores the stories behind the unforgettable images and songs.
• Human Rights Focus: The plight of Palestinian detainees in Israeli prisons, brought into sharp focus by recent mass releases and disturbing allegations, raises urgent questions around international law and justice.
• Inspiration: At 92, Emma Mazenga exemplifies vitality and lifelong resilience.

This episode captures a unique spectrum: world-changing symbolic acts, personal and artistic courage, and the ongoing struggle for justice and dignity in global affairs.