Amanpour – Al Jazeera Gaza Bureau Chief Wael al-Dahdouh

Podcast: Amanpour (CNN Podcasts)
Host: Christiane Amanpour
Air Date: September 12, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode of Amanpour centers on the extraordinary risks and sacrifices journalists endure to report from active conflict zones, particularly in Gaza amidst Israel’s ongoing offensive. The episode opens with an in-depth conversation with Wael Al-Dahdouh, the Al Jazeera Gaza Bureau Chief—himself a survivor of personal tragedy and targeted violence—detailing the immense personal cost of bearing witness for the world. Amanpour also explores the parallel agonies on the Israeli side through an interview with released hostage Liat Benin Atzili and the director of a new documentary chronicling her family’s ordeal. The program concludes with a discussion of innovation and accessibility in higher education with Arizona State University president Michael Crow.

Section 1: Journalism Under Fire: Wael Al-Dahdouh’s Testimony from Gaza

The Life and Losses of Gaza's Most Recognized Journalist

[02:53] – [04:13]

• Personal Sacrifice & Motivation:

  • Wael Al-Dahdouh recounts losing his wife, children, grandson, and other relatives to Israeli strikes targeting journalists.
    • “What do you expect from someone like me... And then his. Almost his entire family are targeted and killed. ... Do you want me to give up? ... No, I will not give up on them. I'll do it for the dignity of the sacrifices they have made.”
      – Wael Al-Dahdouh [03:53]
  • He emphasizes his unwavering commitment to journalism, driven by “love for this profession” and a sense of duty to humanity.

• Reporting Despite Injury:

  • Wael describes being seriously wounded in a missile strike, coordinated with the Red Cross, which killed colleagues and left him bleeding for hours.
    • “I was left there to bleed for six hours. I lost my hearing temporarily and I lost consciousness...If it was inevitable for me to die, now I have to die standing up, walking.”
      – Wael Al-Dahdouh [05:20]
  • After recovering, he buried his colleague Samer and continued his work, even after the later loss of his own son.

The Agony of Leaving Gaza

[06:49] – [08:56]

• Struggle With Exile:
  • Wael left Gaza, at family insistence after further bereavement, for his daughters' and his own medical treatment.
    • “When I decided to leave, I felt as if the whole world had stopped moving and I had to drink poison. ...It never occurred to me before that I can leave this place.”
      – Wael Al-Dahdouh [07:41]

Reckoning With Targeted Violence Against Journalists

[08:56] – [13:12]

• Patterns of Deliberate Targeting:
  • Wael asserts that journalist deaths in Gaza are not accidental but premeditated.
    • “When a journalist is clearly wearing a helmet, a flat jacket, and we always move in the open...this cannot be a mistake. ...We are being killed on just mere accusations.”
      – Wael Al-Dahdouh [11:19]
  • He details media restrictions—how foreign journalists are barred entrance—leaving only local reporters exposed.
• Smear Campaigns: Wael describes a systematic effort to brand slain journalists as terrorists without evidence.
• Professionalism Despite Cost: Despite unprecedented danger, he insists on maintaining objectivity and professionalism.

Pressures From Within: Gaza's Internal Media Climate

[13:12] – [15:09]

• On Working Under Hamas:
  • Amanpour asks about pressures from Hamas as well as Israel. Wael responds:
    • “Hamas are not angels...Maybe they have committed mistakes even towards the journalists. But does that justify the crimes Israel is committing against the Palestinian journalists?...We will not capitulate, we will not give in to any pressures in Gaza.”
      – Wael Al-Dahdouh [14:00]
  • He stresses that while internal challenges exist, the overwhelming threat is Israeli targeting.

The Future Generation of Palestinian Journalists

[15:09] – [17:34]

• No Real Safety for Journalists Left Behind:
  • Amanpour references young Al Jazeera reporters grappling with impossible choices.
    • “Nobody left us any space or hope or margin to choose safety in Gaza City, of Gaza or anywhere else...Everything is imposed on us. ...Our only consolation is the voice is still there, the image is still there.”
      – Wael Al-Dahdouh [16:13]
• Acknowledgment and Call for Action:
  • Wael closes with gratitude and a plea:
    • “Thank you very much. God bless. And we hope that the world can do something. ...to save journalists and to save humanity in Gaza.”
      – Wael Al-Dahdouh [17:44]

Section 2: The Hostage Experience and Search for Humanity – "Holding Liat"

[18:53] – [36:50]

Introducing "Holding Liat"

[18:53] – [20:52]

• Amanpour shifts to the Israeli side, spotlighting the documentary Holding Liat, which follows hostage Liat Benin Atzili and her family’s ordeal after her abduction on October 7th.
• Liat’s Reaction:
  • Watching her family's experience on film:
    • “Seeing it for the first time on film, it was very, very emotional...I sort of got a deeper understanding and appreciation of what my family had been through.”
      – Liat Benin Atzili [21:03]

Enduring Captivity, Grappling With Loss

[21:26] – [27:13]

• Liat’s Ordeal:
  • She survived 54 days as a hostage; her husband did not.
  • “The most difficult thing...I can't deal with the fact that on the day that I returned, we still thought that he might be alive...We found out a day later that he'd been killed.”
    – Liat Benin Atzili [21:50]
• Documentarian’s Perspective:
  • Director Brandon Cramer discusses the unique openness and empathy Liat’s family displayed while being filmed in real time.
    • “What they were experiencing was a story so drastically different than...other hostages. ...Three generations of one family navigating their grief in different ways and their political differences.”
      – Brandon Cramer [22:54]

Empathy in the Face of Suffering

[23:54] – [26:48]

• Liat’s family, especially her father, advocated for peace, even as they grieved.
  • “No matter what happens to you, there’s this moral guide that you don't let go of, no matter how hard and how difficult the things that you're going through are.”
    – Liat Benin Atzili [24:25]

Life in Captivity: Complexity Behind the Fence

[27:13] – [29:16]

• Inside the Gaza Strip:
  • Liat was taken to Khan Yunis and held by a family who, surprisingly, treated her well compared to the suffering of most hostages.
    • “I was incredibly lucky...they saw that as part of their job in guarding me. ...Their job to keep us healthy and to keep us well until we were released.”
      – Liat Benin Atzili [27:37]
  • She engaged her captors in conversations about life in Gaza once her fear subsided.

The Nature of Family, Grief, and Reconciliation

[29:16] – [36:50]

• Raw Family Dynamics:
  • The film captures Liat’s family engaging in real disagreements over how to pursue her release.
    • “These kind of fractures and disagreements happen with families all over the world...the difference for them was that lives were on the line.”
      – Brandon Cramer [30:48]
• Reunion and Mourning:
  • Scenes juxtapose the joy of Liat's reunion with her family and the profound loss at her husband’s funeral, marked by dancing as a celebration of his life.
    • “We discussed this before...we have to play that song. We have to dance. We have to do what he would have wanted us to do.”
      – Liat Benin Atzili [33:45]
• The Gaza Fence and Moral Reflection:
  • Liat, a history teacher, draws a parallel between indifference to suffering in the Holocaust and to current suffering behind the Gaza fence.
    • “They said, but we live near a fence, and nobody thinks about what's going on behind that fence...It can go in so many different directions—the suffering in the Gaza Strip...and that there was a monster being created on the other side of that fence, and now we have to deal with it.”
      – Liat Benin Atzili [35:14]

Section 3: Innovation and Accessibility in American Higher Education – Michael Crow

[38:27] – [52:08]

Reinventing the University Model

[38:27] – [41:10]

• Michael Crow, president of Arizona State University (ASU), discusses building a large-scale, innovative, highly accessible university—emphasizing lifelong learning and technological advancement.
  • “We live in a country...with a limited set of institutions and low levels of access to lifelong education. ...You can find ways to reach learners literally everywhere with the highest level of quality learning products possible.”
    – Michael Crow [39:04]

Developing New Pathways Through Innovation

[39:53] – [42:41]

• New learning technologies and flexible pathways have vastly increased opportunities for students in disciplines like engineering.
  • “We found new ways to teach calculus, new ways to teach biology, new ways to teach chemistry, enabling all the people who want to be an engineer to be able to be an engineer.”
    – Michael Crow [40:10]

The Crucial Role of Basic Science Funding

[41:10] – [45:14]

• Crow warns that government cutbacks to foundational research (e.g., semiconductors) risk undermining US innovation.
  • “It's interesting to me to think about wanting to be the best economy...and then taking this foundational thing...this invisible hand of academic science...and [breaking] this fundamental process.”
    – Michael Crow [44:09]

Access, Equity, and the University’s Civic Mission

[45:40] – [50:30]

• Crow connects public disenchantment with higher education to graduation rates, student debt, and universities losing sight of their mission to serve the nation.
• He champions open access and alternative admissions tracks, distinguishing ASU from elite universities by accepting and supporting a higher proportion of applicants.
  • “We also have taken one additional step, which is if you're not qualified for whatever reason...we have a pathway for you to earn your way in...Otherwise we end up with a distorted outcome of only the hyper, hyper qualified students from high school being able to go to college and succeed at college. ...The democracy is not going to be successful.”
    – Michael Crow [48:05]

Rethinking 'Free' Versus 'Accessible'

[50:42] – [52:08]

• Crow argues against “free” college, advocating for accessible models that involve investment and ownership by students.
  • “Emerging adults need to understand that nothing is free and that you have to take responsibility...We need an investment based model. ...We've tried to build is an unbelievably accessible model in which finances will not be a barrier.”
    – Michael Crow [51:10]

Notable Quotes & Moments

• Wael Al-Dahdouh:
  • "If it was inevitable for me to die, now I have to die standing up." [00:08]
  • "We try to do it with the utmost professionality, without any pressures, neither from Hamas or anybody else." [14:00]
• Liat Benin Atzili:
  • "No matter what happens to you, there's this moral guide that you don’t let go of, no matter what." [24:25]
  • “They said, but we live near a fence, and nobody thinks about what's going on behind that fence...” [35:14]
• Michael Crow:
  • “We've tried to build is an unbelievably accessible model in which finances will not be a barrier.” [51:10]

Key Segment Timestamps

• Wael Al-Dahdouh on personal tragedy: [02:53] – [07:25]
• Targeting of journalists: [08:56] – [13:12]
• Pressure from Hamas: [13:12] – [15:09]
• Fate of young Gaza journalists: [15:09] – [17:44]
• Introduction to Holding Liat: [18:53] – [20:52]
• Liat on her captivity and family's moral stance: [21:26] – [24:25]
• Brandon Cramer on documenting grief and empathy: [22:51] – [23:54], [30:23] – [31:46]
• Liat on Gaza, funerals, and teaching history: [27:13] – [36:50]
• Michael Crow on university innovation and access: [38:27] – [52:08]

Concluding Thoughts

This episode showcases the indomitable courage of journalists like Wael Al-Dahdouh, the agonizing and complex search for humanity on both sides of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and the vision for a more equitable future in American education. The testimonies provided are both sobering and inspiring, highlighting the pivotal role of journalism, empathy, and public institutions in shaping a more informed and just world.