Podcast Summary: Amanpour – "Applying Lessons of Dayton Agreement to Today"

Date: November 21, 2025
Host: Christiane Amanpour (CNN International)
Guests: Christopher Hill (former U.S. Ambassador to Serbia), Carl Bildt (former Swedish Prime Minister and Bosnia’s first postwar High Representative), Tilda Swinton (actor), June Lee (journalist)

Episode Overview

This episode of Amanpour reflects on the 30th anniversary of the Dayton Agreement, the peace accord that ended the Bosnian War, and examines its relevance to current global conflicts—specifically, the ongoing war in Ukraine. Amanpour interviews Christopher Hill and Carl Bildt, both central to the Dayton process, exploring what lessons might apply to contemporary diplomatic efforts. The conversation then shifts to a candid and personal interview with Tilda Swinton on artistic collaboration and identity, and finally to an alarming look at the spread and consequences of sports betting in the United States.

1. Ukraine, Dayton, and the Art of Making (Imperfect) Peace

Key Segment: [00:50] – [19:00]

Main Points & Insights

Parallels and Differences: Ukraine vs Bosnia

• Current Ukraine Negotiations: Amanpour introduces reports that the new Trump administration may be negotiating a Ukraine peace deal with Russia without Ukrainian or European involvement, echoing Russia's demands ([01:50]).
• Christopher Hill: Highlights the dangers of bilateral negotiations that exclude essential parties, saying,

  "What you try to do is make sure you’re having equal time for different sides… this has been very much an effort with Russia rather than with Ukraine." ([03:51])

• Carl Bildt: Calls the reported framework unworkable because it "accepts more or less all key Russian demands," which will not fly with Ukrainians or Europeans. ([05:22])

The Dayton Precedent: Effective Multilateralism

• Ceasefire First: Bildt stresses the importance of a ceasefire before peace talks, a condition met at Dayton but absent in Ukraine ([08:44]).
• Groundwork Before Negotiation: Plans and principles were largely agreed upon before Dayton; details (the "devil") were hammered out over three weeks ([08:44]).
• The Need for Inclusive Negotiation:

  “There were no surprises… It was kind of clear what we were trying to accomplish.” – Christopher Hill ([06:54])
  “For any plan to work, it needs Ukrainians and Europeans on board.” – EU’s foreign affairs chief (clip) ([06:07])

Limitations and Costs of Peace

• Clinton’s Reflections (via clip):

  “…From the beginning, either a hard-line Serbian government or their Russian sponsors were always pushing for paralysis… But, you know, I hope that’ll be resolved someday.” ([10:26])

• Hill on Negotiating with Difficult Parties: Dayton worked in part due to having “one-stop shopping”—i.e., Milosevic spoke for all the Serbs. This expediency, while not ideal, made a deal possible ([11:34]).
• Imperfections at Dayton: The agreement froze territorial and political realities, creating ongoing frustrations among Bosnians about “ill-gotten gains” ([13:00]).

Comparisons and the Limits of Historical Analogies

• Bildt: Warns against direct comparison, noting Bosnia was “essentially a civil war,” resolved only when the entire international community (including Russians) agreed on a unified approach ([14:09]).
• Active Diplomacy Still Needed: Both Hill and Bildt underscore the necessity of unified international action and support for Ukraine’s sovereignty ([17:46], [18:07]).

Notable Quotes

• "There's no question we stopped a war—a war that had gone on for years, had claimed the lives of hundreds of thousands of civilians.”
  — Christopher Hill ([07:08])
• “Without [a ceasefire], it could never have worked.”
  — Carl Bildt on Dayton’s key precondition ([08:44])
• “If [Ukrainian] sovereignty is sort of crushed, then I think all bets [are] off when it comes to the security of the rest of Europe.”
  — Carl Bildt ([18:07])

2. Tilda Swinton: On Art, Identity, and Collective Creation

Key Segment: [20:30] – [37:41]

Main Points & Insights

Fellowship and Collaboration

• Swinton’s Book "Ongoing": Swinton explains her new book is less a retrospective and more a celebration of fellowship—with directors and artists—over her forty years as a performer ([21:31], [22:14]).
• On Derek Jarman: Maintains an ongoing “dialogue” with her late friend and collaborator through letters.

  “This is the way I communicate with him now.” ([23:11])

Personal History and Resilience

• Loss and AIDS Crisis: Swinton attended 43 funerals in her early thirties during the AIDS crisis, shaping her optimism and her belief in connection and kindness ([28:12], [29:47]).
• Maintaining Collective Spirit: Compares past and present activist movements; taught by her grandmother to see the AIDS crisis as her “generation’s war” ([28:27]).

Embracing Fluidity and Rejecting Labels

• On Identity:

  “I think it’s a waste, this idea of fixing one’s identity. I don’t believe it serves us… there’s nothing to be frightened about in being that fluid.” ([31:19])

• David Bowie: Swinton recounts their friendship, mutual recognition, and artistic kinship, both as “cousins” in fluidity and reinvention ([32:23]).

Performance Art and Reflection

• The ‘Maybe’ Performance: Swinton created a piece where she lay sleeping in a glass case—meditating on loss, presence, and witness after friends died during the AIDS crisis ([33:36]).

What She Hopes People Take Away

• Art as Friendship:

  “Find your friends. Stick with them… We want artists to be relaxed, to be authentic, to be telling their own truths.” ([36:35])

Notable Quotes

• “Everybody feels like a freak… go deep, remember. And then use that memory to connect.” ([31:19])
• “I believe in human beings. I think we can do better. I know we can do better and I believe we will.” ([29:47])
• “Let’s do it. Because really, what I’m saying is stick with your friends…” ([36:35])

3. The Dark Side of Sports Betting: Corruption and Loss of Trust

Key Segment: [38:36] – [52:47]

Main Points & Insights

Proliferation of Betting and Scandal

• Recent Betting Scandals: NBA and MLB rocked by allegations of rigged prop bets and Mafia involvement (Terry Rozier, Chauncey Billups, Emmanuel Clase, Luis Ortiz) ([39:01], [40:34]).
  • Example: Player tips friends on prop bet (e.g., first pitch will be a ball) to rig results.
  • Lee: “You can basically bet on anything that happens within the confines of a stadium…” ([40:07])

Economic Incentives and Domino Effect

• Gambling as Revenue Engine:
  • Gambling now central to league revenue, ad buys, and media operations after TV ratings collapsed ([42:48]).
  • “Impossible to escape the grip of sports gambling… it funds a lot of the work that’s done outside of broadcasting as well.” ([44:53])

Consequences for Players and Fans

• Harassment and Toxicity:
  • Players harassed with slurs and threats due to fan gambling losses; extends to families and college players ([46:14], [46:56]).
• Crisis of Trust:
  • Even with safeguards, perceived corruption undermines trust:

    "75% of sports gamblers believe that corruption extends beyond just the NBA and exists across all sports with sports gambling right now." ([47:34])

  • Lee: “If the integrity of [sports] is collapsing, what does that say for things like our government or legacy media?” ([47:34])

League and Regulatory Response

• League Emphasis on Integrity: NBA's Adam Silver calls recent charges "deeply disturbing" ([49:17]).
• Lee’s Broader Warning: The gambling mindset now seeps into politics and broader society, e.g., betting on elections ([49:46]):

  “This is no longer a thing that is just about sports. It’s about how the sports gambling mindset has taken over the way that many people engage with culture in the United States.”

Is Change Possible?

• Fan Power and Hope: Lee points out, real change may require fan protest and collective organization, as seen in European soccer ([51:22]).

Notable Quotes

• “Gambling is now the major driver of revenue for the sports leagues… impossible to escape the grip of sports gambling.” — June Lee ([42:48], [44:53])
• “Athletes are getting harassed either way… because regardless of how well they do, someone is losing money as a result of their performance.” ([46:14])
• “It really scares me… that sports is one of these major institutions that people try to find trust in… and institutional trust is collapsing.” ([47:34])

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Reflecting on Dayton & Ukraine diplomacy: [00:50] – [19:00]
• Tilda Swinton conversation: [20:30] – [37:41]
• Sports betting’s effect on US culture: [38:36] – [52:47]

Conclusion

This Amanpour episode deftly links history, diplomacy, art, and societal change. The Dayton Agreement’s bittersweet legacy is invoked as both inspiration and caution for peace in Ukraine. Swinton’s dialogue celebrates creative community and human resilience. Finally, June Lee’s urgent warnings about sports betting illuminate the ways economic and cultural shifts challenge the very ideas of trust and fairness.

Listeners are left with the message that peace and integrity—whether in international relations, art, or sports—require vigilance, inclusivity, and, above all, genuine collaboration.