Amanpour – "China's Case as the World's Superpower"
Podcast: Amanpour (CNN)
Date: October 3, 2025
Host: Christiane Amanpour
Episode Overview
This episode focuses on the shifting dynamics of global power, with attention on China's strategic ambitions and its challenge to established US leadership. Christiane Amanpour interviews Nicholas Burns, former US Ambassador to China, about his first-hand observations of China’s assertive policies, its alliances with other authoritarian states, and the implications of perceived American retreat from global leadership, particularly under the Trump 2.0 administration. The episode also features segments on the new movie "The Smashing Machine" with Benny Safdie, and an in-depth discussion with Trimane Lee on gun violence and Black life in America.
Main Segment: China’s Superpower Ambitions
With Nicholas Burns, Former US Ambassador to China
Timestamps: [01:17] – [17:55]
Key Discussion Points and Insights
1. Why Nicholas Burns Became More Hawkish on China
- Military and Regional Aggressiveness:
- China’s expansionist moves in the South China Sea (against the Philippines and Vietnam), and East China Sea (against Japan).
- Opaque and rapid buildup of the PLA, especially nuclear forces.
- Persistent Chinese cyber-attacks and intellectual property theft targeting the US, Japan, and Europe.
- Takeaway:
"This is the Chinese government that, you know, it says it wants a stable relationship with the United States and other countries, but its aggressiveness is something to see."
— Nicholas Burns [04:51]
2. China’s Strategic Goals and the “Axis of Authoritarians”
- Stated Ambition: China aims to be the dominant power in the Indo-Pacific, directly challenging the US.
- Strategic Partnerships:
- Notable presence of Xi Jinping, Vladimir Putin, Kim Jong Un, and Iranian president at the 80th anniversary of WWII’s end — visualizing the “axis of authoritarian leaders.”
- Real collaboration: Iran providing drones to Russia, North Korea supplying troops, China contributing “90% of the microelectronics to the Russian defense industrial base.”
"They are actually working together in a way that's quite injurious to Europe, given the existential nature of the crisis in Ukraine and to the United States."
— Nicholas Burns [06:31]
3. Perception of U.S. Decline and China’s Opportunism
- Xi’s Mantra: “The east is rising and the west is falling.”
- Burns’ Response: Disagrees, highlighting US strengths — private sector, tech, research universities.
- Surprise for China: Europe’s alignment with US/Japan after China’s Ukraine positioning.
"China claims to be neutral. It's not at all neutral. It's supporting the Russian defense machine."
— Nicholas Burns [08:48]
4. The Role of Allies and America’s Retreat Under Trump
- Trump’s Actions:
- Dismantling USAID and international media efforts, leaving a vacuum for Chinese “propaganda.”
- Imposing tariffs and questioning alliances with Canada, Denmark, Japan, South Korea, and India.
- Chinese Response:
- Moving into areas where American influence is receding.
- Critical View:
"President Trump's disavowal [...] of many of our alliance relationships [...] has been the most serious mistake he's made. And the Chinese are clearly trying to take advantage of that."
— Nicholas Burns [10:32]
5. Why US–China Competition Cannot Be Unilateral
- Alliances Multiply Power:
- European and Asian allies were vital on issues from Tibet/Xinjiang to Taiwan and military transparency.
- Lesson Learned:
"Without the allies, the United States is going to be less effective in the world."
— Nicholas Burns [12:12]
6. Communication Crisis and Military Transparency
- The Balloon Incident:
- China cut high-level communications after the “balloon crisis.”
- Problem: PLA’s secrecy.
- US wants open senior military channels, but “problem is on the Chinese end.”
- Importance:
"It's in our common interest to have channels of communication that we can use in the event of a crisis."
— Nicholas Burns [13:31]
7. US Military Culture and Propaganda
- Recent Developments:
- US defense secretary’s publicly "lecturing" military leaders on “wokeness” and physical readiness.
- Chinese Perception:
- May see an opportunity in US internal focus/division.
- Burns’ Critique:
"Lectures on physical fitness to 50-year-old admirals. Probably not the best thing to do [...] We rely on modern technology more than anything else."
— Nicholas Burns [15:34]
8. Spheres of Influence: Is American Hegemony Over?
- Possibility of Regional Division:
- Amanpour asks if Trump administration would cede parts of the world to China/Russia (“spheres of influence”).
- Burns' View:
- Thinks this would be a “disaster” for US interests.
- Notes Trump’s recent renewed support for Ukraine after being disappointed by Putin — expects similar outcome with Xi Jinping.
- Prediction:
"We need to compete with China. We also need to work with it when our interests align. Of course we want a peaceful relationship, but toughness on these issues is the order of the day."
— Nicholas Burns [17:42]
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On China’s ambitions:
"They want to become the dominant, if you will, strongest power in the Indo Pacific. And that's a direct challenge to the US."
— Nicholas Burns [05:51] -
On the importance of alliances:
"That was the primary lesson that I learned in competing and living in China."
— Nicholas Burns [12:16] -
On US retreat:
"We dismantled USAID. […] That was a catastrophic mistake."
— Nicholas Burns [09:55] -
Summary View:
"Toughness on these issues is the order of the day. And I think that's where they'll end up."
— Nicholas Burns [17:44]
Bonus Segment: "The Smashing Machine," with Benny Safdie
Timestamps: [19:42] – [38:07]
Key Discussion Points
- Radical empathy in combat sports: Safdie discusses telling the story of mixed martial artist Mark Kerr, exploring themes of vulnerability amidst physical strength.
- Casting Dwayne Johnson: The Rock’s performance as an unexpectedly vulnerable strongman, aided by prosthetics and deep character work.
- Dynamics of fighter relationships:
"I don't think that strength and vulnerability have to cancel each other out."
— Benny Safdie [24:04] - On loss and identity:
"Sometimes, maybe the thrill can come in the loss and that journey."
— Benny Safdie [27:48] - Working with Emily Blunt: Noted for bringing authenticity and subtlety to the film's emotional scenes.
Bonus Segment: Gun Violence, Trauma, and Black Life in America
Timestamps: [39:10] – [54:03]
Interviewee: Trimane Lee (with Michelle Martin)
Key Discussion Points
- Personal narrative: Trimane Lee’s near-death heart attack changed the course of his book, shifting its focus from economic cost to generational and traumatic impacts.
- Family history: Multiple generations of Lee’s family touched by gun violence, both in the Jim Crow South and North, shaping a lens on systemic trauma.
- Broader context:
- African Americans disproportionately suffer gun violence, but it is a nationwide, systemic crisis affecting all communities.
- Guns as a tool of oppression dating back to the slave trade.
- Dehumanization:
- Media and societal framing often “normalizes” violence in Black communities, reducing urgency.
"Until we can point to the problem and speak to the specificity in which race has played a role in how we've experienced this gun violence..."
— Trimane Lee [52:17]
Important Timestamps
- Opening on China & Nicholas Burns Introduction: [01:17]
- Ambassador Burns on China's Aggression: [04:10]
- Stated Aim of Chinese Government ("East rising, West falling") [07:33]
- Impact of Trump’s Foreign Policy and US Retreat: [09:52]
- Discussion on US Alliances: [11:29]
- Military Communication Breakdown (Balloon Crisis): [12:39]
- Burns on Spheres of Influence & American Interests: [16:28–17:50]
- Benny Safdie ("The Smashing Machine") Segment Start: [19:42]
- Trimane Lee on Gun Violence in Black Communities: [39:10]
Tone and Language
The episode’s tone is urgent yet analytical, blending geopolitical caution with deep empathy in discussions of both international power and social justice. Amanpour’s direct questioning surfaces tough truths, and the guests—Burns with diplomatic candor, Safdie with introspection, and Lee with vulnerability—add layers of insight.
For listeners seeking to understand today's greatest global power contest, the rise of China, and America's response, this episode provides clarity, context, and an unvarnished view of what is at stake—both internationally and domestically.