Diplomacy at a Crossroads

Summary

Amanpour – “Diplomacy at a Crossroads”

CNN Podcasts | May 23, 2026
Host: Christiane Amanpour

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Episode Overview

This episode explores the current crises and complexities in global diplomacy, focusing on the faltering transatlantic alliance, Spain’s rising assertiveness in international affairs, shifting US-Europe relations, the Israel-Palestine conflict, and mediation attempts in the ongoing Iran conflict. The hour also features candid, personal insight from tennis legend Rafael Nadal, a harrowing ground report from Ukraine’s frontlines, a rare interview with Egypt’s foreign minister on Middle East peace prospects, and a historical reflection from former Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. The episode culminates in a touching tribute to a WWII veteran.

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Key Segments & Discussion Points

1. Spain’s Foreign Policy – Confrontation & Realignment

Guest: Spanish Foreign Minister José Manuel Álvarez
Segment: [02:25]–[09:07]

Spain’s Open Critique of Israel

• Incident: Spain marched Israel’s envoy out of Madrid following a video showing Israeli Minister Ben Gvir humiliating Spanish and international activists after intercepting their Gaza-bound flotilla in international waters.
• Álvarez’s Response:
  • Did not receive an apology from Israel.
  • Quote: “A country that says that it's a democracy doesn't behave in this way. You don't assault in international waters and you don't make illegal detentions. And in addition, you don't inflict such an inhumane and humiliating treatment.” ([03:54])
  • Spain, with other EU countries, is seeking a ban on Ben Gvir in the EU.

U.S.-Spain Tensions

• Spain has become a target for Israel, accused of anti-Israel and anti-Semitic policies as a distraction from its own corruption scandals.
• Álvarez: “It's absurd and is ridiculous. Spain and its foreign policy [are] pro peace, pro peaceful coexistence, anti war. We will never accept that the only way Israel has to relate with its neighbor is through war and violence. There must be a way of peaceful coexistence and that is called the two state solution.” ([05:56])

NATO, Trump, and Transatlantic Strain

• The US threatens to pull troops from NATO and criticizes Spain on several policy fronts.
• Spain’s Commitment: Defense spending increased to 2.1% of GDP—higher than some NATO countries.
• Álvarez: “We want [the transatlantic relationship] to be as strong as possible within the framework of our common values and respect of international law.” ([07:09])

On Cuba

• Spain concerned about Cuban humanitarian situation, supports aid and insists on international law and Cuba’s sovereignty.

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2. Rafael Nadal – The Hidden Struggles of a Champion

Guest: Rafael Nadal
Segment: [10:09]–[18:45]

Life After Tennis

• Nadal at ease with retirement:
  • Quote: “I never was afraid of that.” ([11:37])

Pain and Resilience On and Off Court

• Career marked by chronic injuries, notably Muller-Weiss syndrome diagnosed after a foot injury in 2005, just at the start of his rise.
  • Nadal: “[2005] was the toughest part in my tennis career because that was just the beginning…in one second looks like, okay, now maybe you will not be able to keep doing what you are doing.” ([12:57])
• He describes the devastating realization that his professional future was in jeopardy at 19.

Struggles with Mental Health

• Admits to anxiety and the need for therapy, sharing this openly to inspire others:
  • Nadal: “I cannot go out on the street without a bottle of water on my hand. So, yeah, that's a big. That's a big deal. So I need to find help. And that's what I did. I went to psychologist first, but then I, I went to the…psychiatrist.” ([14:40])
• Medication and therapy helped him regain equilibrium.

Rituals, Focus & Public Misconceptions

• His on-court rituals are often criticized as OCD or superstition; for him, it was about control and focus.
  • Nadal: “I was very organized on a tennis court because probably all these issues helped me to stay focused…outside of tennis court, I am not that organized.” ([16:02])

On Legacy and Pressure

• Felt national support as motivation, not a burden.
  • Nadal: “For me, it was not an extra weight on my shoulders. No, for me, I enjoyed all that support, all that love. And I feel a very privileged person to be able to lift all of that.” ([18:17])

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3. Frontlines of Ukraine: The New Face of Warfare

Report: Nick Payton Walsh, CNN
Segment: [19:03]–[24:35]

Evolution of Combat: Drones & Automation

• Experience: Journalists and Ukrainian soldiers walk five hours along the “road of life” to the front; roads are too perilous for vehicles.
• Drones dominate: “The battlefield has completely changed in a matter of a year.” ([21:49])
  • Robots and drones now deliver supplies to front lines, with nets as protection from above.
  • Quote: “The drones never stop, but neither does Ukraine adapting, learning, engineering this new warfare and hoping any edge sustains long enough to put Russia in reverse.” ([24:05])

Human Toll and Uncertainty

• Russian casualties as high as 35,000 a month (Ukrainian estimates).
• Relentless artillery and drone attacks create a constant state of alert.

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4. Egypt’s Diplomatic Tightrope: Peace in the Middle East

Guest: Egyptian Foreign Minister Badr Abdelati
Segment: [25:14]–[32:34]

Iran Conflict Mediation

• Abdelati praises US President Trump’s “wise policies” in pausing escalation, insists on:
  • Dialogue over further military action.
  • Confidence-building in Gulf-Iran relations, especially post-attacks.
  • Need for a regional security regime, not just nuclear talks.
  • Quote: “There is no military solution. And always Egypt is with Arab Gulf countries, you know, preferring dialogue and de escalation.” ([27:29])

Relations with Israel and the Palestinian Plight

• Egypt maintains a peace treaty with Israel but voices concern over Israeli aggression in Gaza, West Bank, and Lebanon.
• Abdelati: “We have not to allow the focus on Iran to divert our attention from what's happening in the west bank and the Gaza.” ([29:17])
• On the unacceptability of linking regional peace to Palestinian disarmament.
• Quote: “Two years of bombardment killing more than 75,000 innocent Palestinians and injuring 170,000 and nobody gave a damn to that…But it takes two to tango. We need the international community…” ([25:14], [30:47])
• Reiterates: No true stability in the region without a legitimate Palestinian state with East Jerusalem as its capital.

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5. Inside the Ahmadinejad Plot: Shocks from the Iran War’s Secret Playbook

Segment: [32:37]–[36:20]

New York Times Revelation

• US and Israel plotted to install Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in power after their initial strikes; an Israeli assault on his home was meant to free him from house arrest but failed.

Amanpour’s Archival Interview with Ahmadinejad

• Defiant as ever; does not trust Western intentions or legitimacy on nuclear concerns.
  • Ahmadinejad: “We understand, we know that their intentions are bad intentions…They need to proceed according to international laws. They cannot say that we don't like the intentions…Therefore, we want to prevent you.” ([34:08])
• If sanctioned, “any intelligent…person should use every resource in order to maintain his or her freedom and independence.” ([35:13])

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6. Tribute: The Greatest Generation – Memorial Day Reflections

Guest: WWII Veteran Jake Larson
Segment: [37:51]–[38:17]

• Moving testimony from Jake Larson, reflecting on sacrifice and the gravity of WWII:
  • Quote: “Every one of us was prepared to give our life to kick Hitler's ass out of Europe.” ([37:51])
  • Amanpour: “You can see why they call Jake and the others the greatest generation.” ([38:18])

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Álvarez (Spain):
  “You don't assault in international waters and you don't make illegal detentions. And in addition, you don't inflict such an inhumane and humiliating treatment.” ([03:54])

• Nadal (Tennis):
  “What I wanted to show in the documentary was my real life. And the real life is not only about playing Sundays, holding trophies…There's another part of real life in the professional athlete world, and that's my story.” ([11:59])

• Nick Payton Walsh (Ukraine):
  “Nobody drives cars on this road unless you have to…The buzz [of drones] stays with you, ringing in your ears for hours later, no respite.” ([19:03], [23:39])

• Abdelati (Egypt):
  “We need confidence building measures based on non aggressions. And of course, let's focus on a sort of security regime.” ([27:29]) “Mighty power will not bring full security and stability. So we have to give back the legitimate rights to the people in Gaza, in the west bank…” ([31:54])

• Ahmadinejad (Iran):
  “Do not doubt that our people will not lose.” ([35:26])

• Jake Larson (WWII):
  “Every one of us was prepared to give our life to kick Hitler's ass out of Europe.” ([37:51])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Spain/Europe-US Relations: [02:25] – [09:07]
• Rafael Nadal Interview: [10:09] – [18:45]
• Ukraine War Frontline Report: [19:03] – [24:35]
• Egypt Mediation/Region Politics: [25:14] – [32:34]
• Ahmadinejad/ Iran Plot/Interview: [32:37] – [36:20]
• WWII Veteran Tribute: [37:51] – [38:17]

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Summary

This episode of Amanpour incisively examined the fractures and realignments in contemporary international relations—from Europe’s estrangement with Washington, Spain’s unapologetically principled diplomacy, and Egypt’s quiet navigation of Middle East tensions, to the lived experience of war on Ukraine’s front and the personal cost of elite athletic achievement with Rafael Nadal. Christiane Amanpour’s trademark probing conversations reveal the personal, political, and historical stakes underpinning global headlines—with memorable voices confronting pain, injustice, and hope on the world stage.

Transcript

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[Christiane Amanpour]

Hello everyone, and welcome to the Amanpour Hour. Here's where we're headed. This week, I asked the Spanish foreign minister why his country has swapped appeasement for criticizing Trump policies towards allies. Then a sporting Spaniard, the King of clay tennis legend Rafael Nadal, joins me on a new documentary revealing the pain behind his athletic prowess.

[Rafael Nadal]

There's another part of real life in the professional athlete world, and that's my story.

[Christiane Amanpour]

And as drone warfare gets more and more advanced and deadly, Nick Payton Walsh follows Ukrainian troops on a long march to the front. Also, my exclusive interview with the Egyptian foreign minister why his nation believes an end to the war with Iran is getting closer.

[Rafael Nadal (alternate voice) / Egyptian Foreign Minister Badr Abdelati (context dependent)]

We are doing our best efforts, but it takes two to tango.

[Christiane Amanpour]

And with the New York Times reporting that Israel and Washington's plan for a vassal Iranian state included wanting the ultra hardliner holocaust denier Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to take over. From my archives, the former president reveals why he may not have been the perfect choice.

[Mahmoud Ahmadinejad]

Do not doubt that our people will not lose.

[Christiane Amanpour]

Welcome to the program, everyone. I'm Christiane Amanpour in London. Has the relationship between Europe and the United States ever been lower? Patience is wearing dreadfully thin on both sides of the Atlantic. America's European allies are now becoming openly critical of the U.S. but one country has been pushing back for a while on everything from immigration to denying the US Access to its air bases for its war in Iran, to constantly criticizing the Israeli government's harsh policies against the Palestinians. Yup, I am talking about Spain. Their latest move day marching Israel's envoy to Madrid after this video emerged of far right extremist Minister Ben Gvir Humiliating activists from Spain and around the world after intercepting their Gaza bound flotilla which was in international waters. So is Spain an outlier or a harbinger of a widening split between the United States and Europe? I asked Foreign Minister Jose Manuel Alvarez. Foreign Minister Alvarez, welcome to the program. Let's just get to the heart of this issue of the intercepted flotilla. All those who are on it have now been deported back to their home countries, according to the Israeli government. But you were very angry. You called Minister Ben Gvir's actions really humiliating. All those. Monstrous, undignified and humiliating. Did you ever get an apology from the Israeli government?

[Spanish Foreign Minister Jose Manuel Alvarez]

No, not directly. I asked for one because I think that the country that says that it's a democracy doesn't behave in this way. You don't assault in international waters and you don't make illegal detentions. And in addition, you don't inflict such anhumane and humiliating treatment. Treatment? Citizens, democracies. We don't act like that. That's why I ask for those apologies. I haven't got them. And that's why Spain, with other European countries, we are asking for a ban of this particular minister into the European Union as Spain has enforced it since many months ago.

[Christiane Amanpour]

That's interesting. Of course you saw that Prime Minister Netanyahu and his foreign minister did post that this was not, you know, action by Ben GVIR in accordance with the norms and laws and sort of, you know, things of Israel. Are you convinced by their sort of wrapping him over the knuckles?

[Spanish Foreign Minister Jose Manuel Alvarez]

No, I think that is better than saying nothing. But if in any democracy a minister would act and behave in that way, the next minute he wouldn't be a minister anymore. And that's a common responsibility of the Israeli government. And these actions must stop. It's not the first time that we see this sort of assault in international waters where no Israeli agent has jurisdiction on any of our citizens. And of course I find this appalling, outrageous and I cannot accept, and I will never accept that my citizens are treated in this way by anyone in the world.

[Christiane Amanpour]

Now you know that you've become sort of, you know, a bullseye target for the Israeli government. And their foreign minister Bas accuses you all in Spain of leading a hostile anti Israel line. They call it, you know, trying to divert from, quote, your severe corruption scandals through anti Israel, anti Semitic attacks. How do you respond to that?

[Spanish Foreign Minister Jose Manuel Alvarez]

It's absurd and is ridiculous. Spain and its foreign policy, example of all, pro peace, pro peaceful coexistence, anti war. We will never accept that the only way that Israel has to relate with its neighbor is through war and through violence. There must be a way of peaceful coexistence and that is called the two state solution. Of course we support the existence of the state of Israel. We have condemned the horrible terrorist attack of Hamas on October 7. We have condemned and voted for every package of sanctions to Hamas in eu. Hamas has nothing to do with the future of Palestine.

[Christiane Amanpour]

Foreign Minister, you know the President of the United States has threatened NATO. He's already announced the Pentagon will pull back, you know, thousands of troops from Germany and who knows where else in NATO. You're at a meeting in Sweden to prepare for the future NATO summit with world leaders. He complains a lot about the leads Spain takes, whether it's on NATO defense spending, on climate policy, immigration. You've really made it your business to challenge President Trump on these issues.

[Spanish Foreign Minister Jose Manuel Alvarez]

We really believe in the transatlantic relation. We at the government has done the largest and the fastest increase in our defence expenditure. It's 2.1 right now, more than some of the countries in NATO. And we have delivered all the capacities that have been requested. Not all the countries in NATO have done it. We want that to be as strong as possible within the framework of our commune values and the respect of international law.

[Christiane Amanpour]

What do you think of the consequences of the US indictment of Raul Castro, former President and former Defense Minister of Cuba, sending in an aircraft carrier, the Nimitz, and basically increasing the pressure? You are going to be meeting Marco Rubio. I don't know whether you're going to ask him about this, but what is the plan and do you support the indictment? Because it does revolve around an issue where the Cubans did shoot down civilian little planes basically in cold blood with MIGs all those decades ago.

[Spanish Foreign Minister Jose Manuel Alvarez]

We are very worried for the humanitarian situation of the Cuban people. Cuban people are brothers and sisters of Spain. As all the people in Latin America, we see the humanitarian situation, we try to help them with that, with food, with medical staff, with solar panels. And what I want from the Cuban people is exactly the same that I want for the Spanish people. Freedom, democracy, social justice, equality. But everything must be done in full compliance with international law and also guaranteeing the sovereignty of the territorial integrity of Cuba. So that's where Spain is stating right now.

[Christiane Amanpour]

But just briefly, do you think they're headed towards extracting Castro?

[Spanish Foreign Minister Jose Manuel Alvarez]

I cannot answer that question. That's a question that only the government of the United States answer.

[Christiane Amanpour]

Foreign Minister Albares, thank you so much for joining us.

[Spanish Foreign Minister Jose Manuel Alvarez]

Thank you. My pleasure.

[Christiane Amanpour]

Coming up later on the show, an exclusive interview with Egypt's foreign minister projecting hope for negotiations with Iran. But first, a true Spanish hero. My candid conversation with tennis legend Rafael Nadal. It wasn't all glory and joy, no. Pain and suffering were constant companions along his record breaking journey.

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[Christiane Amanpour]

Welcome back to the program. What more can you say about a tennis champion called Rafa? Well, surprisingly, a lot. Rafael Nadal. The tennis star won two Olympic gold medals and 22 Grand Slams, a record 14 of them on his favorite red clay at Roland Garros, the French Open. But now a new Netflix documentary that followed him on his final season in 2024 reveals all that success came at a huge cost. Injuries and chronic pain meant that for decades, success walked hand in hand with suffering and doubt and anxiety and a superhuman will to compete, never knowing how long his career would last. Here's some of the trailer with Rafa.

[Rafael Nadal (alternate voice) / Egyptian Foreign Minister Badr Abdelati (context dependent)]

You know that every match is live or die.

[Rafael Nadal]

It just made you feel that you

[Christiane Amanpour]

need to play superhuman to beat him.

[Rafael Nadal]

I need to push my body to the limit. And if something happens, something happens.

[Christiane Amanpour]

The documentary premiered in Spain this week and I was there. I spoke to the great champion in Madrid, Rafael Nadal. Welcome to the program.

[Rafael Nadal]

Thank you.

[Christiane Amanpour]

It's been about two years that you haven't been competing. How is retirement treating you?

[Rafael Nadal (alternate voice) / Egyptian Foreign Minister Badr Abdelati (context dependent)]

Very good.

[Rafael Nadal]

You like it?

[Rafael Nadal (alternate voice) / Egyptian Foreign Minister Badr Abdelati (context dependent)]

Yeah.

[Christiane Amanpour]

Yeah.

[Rafael Nadal]

I never was afraid of that. And.

[Christiane Amanpour]

Really?

[Mahmoud Ahmadinejad]

Yeah.

[Christiane Amanpour]

Honestly, this is a documentary. I thought about pain and suffering. I mean, I really felt the pain halfway through, and it was incredible. Why did you decide to reveal this part to the world?

[Rafael Nadal]

What I wanted to show in the documentary was my real life. And the real life is not only about playing Sundays, holding trophies on your hands and good things that, you know, there's another path of, of real life in the. In the professional athlete world. And that's my story.

[Christiane Amanpour]

And it really is. And it's shown in excruciating detail. I mean, in 2005, when you were playing the match and you felt A crunch in your foot, and it turned out you had broken something. And it turned out that you had this very rare. Is it called Muller Weiss?

[Rafael Nadal]

Yeah.

[Christiane Amanpour]

You said, I'm devastated, I'm destroyed. This is in a car scene. You then had to wear an insole that. I don't know whether people knew about that, but to try to do everything you could to make it work. Tell me about that. What was it like having to play with that pain? Did you think you'd be able to have a long career after that? That was 2005,

[Canva Advertiser]

probably.

[Rafael Nadal]

That was the toughest part in my tennis career because that was just the beginning. 2005 was the first year that I won my first Grand Slam. I finished my year like world number two. So that was in one of the last tournaments of the year. So after that, you know, was just the beginning of my success. So in some way, when you receive all this news that maybe you will not be able to keep doing the same things as you are used to do it.

[Mahmoud Ahmadinejad]

Wow.

[Rafael Nadal]

In some way, you are projecting your future being a professional tennis player, thinking that you're going to have at least, I mean, seven, eight, ten years of being on the professional tour. That's why you have been practicing almost all your life, and in one second looks like, okay, now maybe you will not be able to keep doing what you are doing.

[Mahmoud Ahmadinejad]

So is it scary?

[Rafael Nadal]

Yes. Because at 19 years old, of course, you feel everything in a different way.

[Christiane Amanpour]

You do express, throughout the documentary anxiety and stress about all of this, which is presumably understandable. Your wife talks about it. You know, you went to see a psychiatrist at some point or a therapist to try to get through it. This is going to resonate with people all over the world, particularly men, young men. Tell me about the level of anxiety and stress, having to go out, for instance, at one point with a bottle of water the whole time, you know, and how you work through that.

[Rafael Nadal]

Yes. I mean, probably because I went through a lot of injuries, a lot of pressure, and I always thought that I need to fix things for myself in terms of mental. Mental strength. No, but right from on that, when I was. My feeling was okay, I cannot go out on the street without a bottle of water on my hand. So, yeah, that's a big. That's a big deal. So I need to find help. And that's what I, I did. I went to psychologist first, but then I, I went to the.

[Christiane Amanpour]

Yes. Psychiatrist.

[Rafael Nadal]

Psychiatrist. And then after that, I started with some.

[Mahmoud Ahmadinejad]

Yeah.

[Rafael Nadal]

Some medication for a while, and I was able to start feeling improvements After a couple of months. And then of course, that was for around a year. And then of course I recovered and I never again.

[Christiane Amanpour]

Your rituals. I once asked you about it. You know, a lot of people say it's ocd, whatever. And I asked you about your rituals when you won in Australia a few years ago and you said, do you think I do this kind of stuff off the court? No, it's for me to feel in control and safe on the court. Tell me a little bit more about that because you really do talk about it a lot in the documentary. You explain it.

[Rafael Nadal]

Yeah, because I think was mean. People approach that little bit like a superstition or that I need to do that. I mean, probably people, when they watch me do all of these on the court, they think that I am doing all these things in my real life too. And it's completely the opposite. You know, I was very organized on a tennis court because probably all these issues helped me to stay focused and to don't think much on other stuff. Not just stay a little bit on my bubble. No, to be honest, outside of tennis court, I mean, you can talk with my people. I am not that organized. I don't have all these rituals. But that really helped me.

[Christiane Amanpour]

It did.

[Rafael Nadal]

To stay focused on what I needed to be.

[Christiane Amanpour]

Yeah, well, it worked. I mean, you know, obviously the record record stands. Carlos Alcaraz is not playing. Even he's pulled out of Wimbledon. He had caused some controversy or debate in the tennis world when he gave an interview that said, yeah, I actually like to go to Ibiza. I want to go dance. I want to take time off, you know, from the. From the grueling schedule of the off season. Do you think that's good?

[Rafael Nadal]

Everyone has a different personality. I did too. I was not a guy. That was my life, was not only tennis, tennis and tennis.

[Christiane Amanpour]

Did you dance?

[Rafael Nadal]

I did. I went to Ibiza every single year with my friends. Yeah, it's true. But I mean, everyone needs to find their own space. I mean, he decided to, to make that public. I respect that and seems like it's working very well for him too.

[Christiane Amanpour]

He does, he's doing unbelievably. But of course, this is not a great year for him, health wise. He's injured. I mean, what advice I know you're doing?

[Rafael Nadal]

Yeah, I think you, you will have injuries. The professional athletes always will have issues. You know, some players have more like me, some players have less. Like Novak, for example.

[Christiane Amanpour]

We're in Spain, you're Spanish. Did you feel the weight and the burden of your nation's hopes and dreams on you, or did it power you in a different way?

[Rafael Nadal]

For me, I always take that as a motivation. And I always felt very well supported and loved and respected, especially, of course, here in Spain, but around the world. So for me, it was not an extra weight on my shoulders. No, for me, I enjoyed all that support, all that love. And I feel a very privileged person to be able to lift all of that.

[Christiane Amanpour]

Well, that's great. Rafael Nadal, thank you so much.

[Rafael Nadal]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Christiane Amanpour]

The extraordinary documentary series Rafa will drop on Netflix next week, May 29th. Coming up, dodging drones on a deadly road to Ukraine's front line. CNN's Nick Peyton Walsh braves that journey himself for a special report.

[Nick Payton Walsh]

Nobody drives cars on this road unless you have to. Nobody drives a tank. That's outgoing artillery.

[Christiane Amanpour]

Welcome back. The Ukraine war is becoming deadlier by the day. That was the warning from a UN official this week after a series of Russian strikes across the country killed dozens and injured many more. Meanwhile, Ukraine has carried out one of its largest drone assaults deep inside Russia, with casualties reported in and around the capital, Moscow. It's a sign of how this war is evolving. Under skies filled with Russian drones, soldiers on the front lines move on foot while robots deliver food and ammunition. Nick Peyton Walsh takes us along one key road of vital archery for Ukrainian forces, where every step carries serious risk.

[Nick Payton Walsh (alternate voice)]

They call this the road of life, but it's about survival, not living. It is safest on foot under skies ruled by tiny killer drones targeting any vehicle. The nets trying to block the horror from above. If you can make the robot your friend, your porter, the machines are normally the enemy here.

[Nick Payton Walsh]

This now pretty much all over the front lines. Tiny bits of fiber optic cable used to connect drones to their controller can go on for tens of kilometers. Stopping the jamming before.

[Nick Payton Walsh (alternate voice)]

A Russian drone above, The Ukrainians open fire.

[Nick Payton Walsh]

Stay in the doorway.

[Nick Payton Walsh (alternate voice)]

They hit it.

[Nick Payton Walsh]

That's the impact. And you have to split out because the drone will try and target groups of individuals sometimes 1, 2, 3. You find.

[Nick Payton Walsh (alternate voice)]

We're doing Sasha and Bogdan's usual walk along this road between two Ukrainian positions, But it takes five hours and we are buzzed by attack drones 14 times.

[Nick Payton Walsh]

The battlefield has completely changed in a matter of a year. Nobody drives cars on this road unless you have to. Nobody drives attacks. That's outgoing artillery. These robots used for resupply. Up ahead, we can see people repairing the nets, a kind of key protection. But these used to resupply food, ammunition all around the front line.

[Nick Payton Walsh (alternate voice)]

The Next one is right on top of us. They hit it.

[Christiane Amanpour]

I'm interested.

[Nick Payton Walsh (alternate voice)]

That gray streak and it falls, worming down, But it hasn't detonated. Debris drifts. There's been no blast. So we are alive. It may have been a recon drone, but flew like a Russian attacker. Down the road is the Konstantinivka front, where the Kremlin's advance has been slowed to a crawl at the enormous cost across the front of 35,000 Russian dead and wounded a month, says Ukraine. We arrive at the bunker to rest a moment and see the drone trophies. But we have to get back. As soon as we emerge, they are above us again. This is the new warfare. Hide, shoot at the sky, run, fire drowns back.

[Nick Payton Walsh]

Have to walk in but also walk out.

[Nick Payton Walsh (alternate voice)]

The buzz stays with you, ringing in your ears for hours later, no respite. The gray smoke, perhaps it hit the net.

[Nick Payton Walsh]

That was close. Loud. You could hear the shrapnel landing on the tarmac, clearly targeting that armored vehicle.

[Nick Payton Walsh (alternate voice)]

It is hard to see how this grind is a win, but it is Ukraine on foot, robots in support, automation replacing scarce, troops holding ground. The drones never stop, but neither does Ukraine adapting, learning engineering this new warfare and hoping any edge sustains long enough to put Russia in reverse. Nick Payton Walsh, cnn, Druzhyevka, Ukraine.

[Christiane Amanpour]

Still, military analysts insist Ukraine is doing better while Russia is finding it very hard to increase its territory grabs inside Ukraine. Now coming up, inside Egypt's diplomatic efforts to end the war with Iran and boost Palestinian rights. My exclusive interview with Foreign Minister Badr Abdul Ati is next.

[Rafael Nadal (alternate voice) / Egyptian Foreign Minister Badr Abdelati (context dependent)]

Two years of bombardment killing more than 75,000 innocent Palestinians and injuring 170,000, and nobody give a damn to that.

[Christiane Amanpour]

Comedian Craig Ferguson is going coast to coast to unpack what it really means to be an American today.

[Nick Payton Walsh (alternate voice)]

What could possibly go wrong?

[Christiane Amanpour]

Craig Ferguson, American on purpose. New series premieres May 30th at 9th on CNN. And next Thursday. Welcome back. Another week of dizzying brinkmanship over the war on Iran. First, Trump again threatens overwhelming force before calling it off by the end of that same day, amid threats from Tehran to spread the war beyond the Middle East. As the global fallout and mass poverty increases, Egypt has positioned itself as a key mediator. I tried to get a readout on whether there really is any chance of a negotiated end to this war from Foreign Minister Badr Abdelati right here in London. Foreign Minister, welcome to our program. You, Egypt, are right in the middle of attempting to mediate an end to the Iran U. S. Israel war. President Trump's Latest is that he is responding, he says, to appeals from his Gulf state allies to not launch another hot war right now, but who knows what in the future. Where do you stand on that? What do you think is going on in the state of mediation?

[Rafael Nadal (alternate voice) / Egyptian Foreign Minister Badr Abdelati (context dependent)]

Well, first of all, we commend President Trump wise policies and decisions in order to give more time for dialogue, for de escalation. That's highly appreciated and it's indeed very, very important to exert our maximum efforts to push for dialogue and for de escalation. And I believe that things are moving in the right direction, maybe slowly but steadily. And that could lead the way for setting the parameters, the principles. And that would be subject to negotiations later on for a specific period of time and to tackle the different files, including of course the nuclear file.

[Christiane Amanpour]

So to be fair, we've heard this before, a one page document, maybe figure out the hard things a bit later, open the strait of Hormuz first, etc. And it never goes anywhere.

[Rafael Nadal (alternate voice) / Egyptian Foreign Minister Badr Abdelati (context dependent)]

Well, again we are pushing for dialogue and there is no military solution. And always Egypt is with Arab Gulf countries, you know, preferring dialogue and de escalation. Also we have to talk about the future of the security regional regime in the region. And of course we must restore confidence between Iran and the Gulf countries after the attacks and the aggressions on the Gulf countries. You know, there is missing confidence between the two sides. So we need to restore it. We need confidence building measures based on non aggressions. And of course, let's focus on a sort of security regime.

[Christiane Amanpour]

Let me hard pivot to Israel again because you are one of only two Arab countries that actually has a peace accord with Israel. A senior Egyptian source recently told the national newspaper that the number one enemy in the Egyptian military department doctrine is Israel. Is Israel your number one enemy according to military doctrine?

[Rafael Nadal (alternate voice) / Egyptian Foreign Minister Badr Abdelati (context dependent)]

Of course this relationship is being affected with the Israeli aggressive policies, especially in the west bank and in Gaza, in Lebanon, in attacking the different Arab countries. But again, we have peace treaty and we are abiding by our commitment as long as the Israeli side is abiding by their commitments in order to allow the accessibility of sufficient humanitarian and medical assistance.

[Christiane Amanpour]

But it's not.

[Rafael Nadal (alternate voice) / Egyptian Foreign Minister Badr Abdelati (context dependent)]

It's not. And that's why we, we have not to allow the focus on Iran to divert our attention from what's happening in the west bank and the Gaza. And that's why we have to push for completing the implementation of the first phase as well as moving ahead with the implementation of the second phase, which include the decommissioning of weapons as well as Israeli withdrawal from Gaza.

[Christiane Amanpour]

Okay, but the person who's in charge of the so called peace board, board of peace, Nikolai Mladenov from yes, he has basically said just this month that the entire ceasefire accord might be, quote, null and void. If Hamas doesn't accept disarmament. Israel's obligations under the ceasefire would be null and void. So they're putting the onus on Hamas. And do you not agree that Hamas needs to decommission, disarm or whatever? I mean, you are the Arab state. I mean, Egypt has been the leader of the Arab world for so, so long. And by and large, most of the analysis suggests that Israel is winning and doing what it wants. It's doing it in Lebanon, it's doing it in Syria, it's doing it on the west bank, and it's doing it in Gaza, and it's doing it in Iran. When does the Arab world, Egypt, use its voice and its might and its peace treaty to say enough already.

[Rafael Nadal (alternate voice) / Egyptian Foreign Minister Badr Abdelati (context dependent)]

We are of course using our voice, our influence day by night to push for Israel to abide by its commitments. And again, it's all about the policies of the whole international regime. And look to what happened in Gaza. Two years of bombardment killing more than 75,000 innocent Palestinians and injuring 170,000 and nobody gave a damn to that. And so again, we are doing our, our, our best efforts. But it takes two to tango. We need the international community, the European Union, the United States and others. And unfortunately, this escalation with Iran diverted the attention from focusing on the Palestinian issue.

[Christiane Amanpour]

Or maybe not, because it's clear that Prime Minister Netanyahu, and he stated over and again, it's part of the new election campaign, no Palestinian state. Where does this end and what leverage do you have?

[Rafael Nadal (alternate voice) / Egyptian Foreign Minister Badr Abdelati (context dependent)]

It will, I mean, it will, I can assure you it will not bring peace and stability and security for Israel. Mighty power will not bring full security and stability. So we have to give back the legitimate rights to the people in Gaza, in the west bank, to have their own independent state with eastern Jerusalem as its capital, a part of that. There is no peace and stability in the region without addressing the hardcore of the conflict in the region.

[Christiane Amanpour]

Foreign Minister Abdelati, thank you very much indeed for joining us.

[Rafael Nadal (alternate voice) / Egyptian Foreign Minister Badr Abdelati (context dependent)]

Thank you so much, Christian, for hosting me.

[Christiane Amanpour]

Thank you.

[Rafael Nadal (alternate voice) / Egyptian Foreign Minister Badr Abdelati (context dependent)]

It's a great pleasure. Thank you.

[Christiane Amanpour]

And that is a commonly held view amongst serious analysts. Now, coming up, a secret mission that went awry. As the New York Times reveals the surprising figure Netanyahu and Trump had eyed to lead Iran. Ahmadinejad One of my early conversations with the former hardline president after the break. Welcome back. Now, when President Trump and Israel's prime minister launched their war against Iran, it quickly became clear that it hadn't been properly war gamed and there was no fixed roadmap for what would follow. With that in mind, imagine the shock among Iran watchers when a New York Times exclusive this week revealed that Israel and the US did apparently focus on one Iranian as a future partner. Let's call him their local Delsey Rodriguez. Anyone remember the name Mahmoud Ahmadinejad? In 2009, his disputed re election sparked the first major mass protests in Iran, dubbed the Green Revolution and a brutal crackdown. Take a listen to part of one of my interviews with Ahmadinejad. Do you accept at all that the United States, Europe, they are deeply suspicious about your intentions? They just think that you want to build a bomb. Do you understand that? And why do you want to have this crisis?

[Mahmoud Ahmadinejad]

Yes, you see, we understand, we know that their intentions are bad intentions. Their intentions towards us are bad. When have they ever shown or have had clean, clear, pure intentions towards us? We don't have expectations for anything else coming from them. What rights do they have when they want to talk about such issues? They need to proceed according to international laws. They cannot say that we don't like the intentions, what we think are the intentions of your country. Therefore, we want to prevent you.

[Christiane Amanpour]

If you are referred to the Security Council and if sanctions are imposed on Iran, will you take countermeasures? Already some of your officials have threatened to provoke a rise in oil prices. Prices have potentially threatened to pull out of the npt. What will you do if sanctions are imposed?

[Mahmoud Ahmadinejad]

I think any intelligent, healthy, smart human being should use every resource in order to maintain his or her freedom and independence.

[Christiane Amanpour]

So you you could see interfering with oil prices.

[Mahmoud Ahmadinejad]

I doubt that the leaders of the United States and Europe are that far removed from reality. I think they're smarter than denying us this legal right. It is natural, of course, they will use whatever they have in their hand, which is the UN Security Council. And our nation has the means to defend, defend and obtain its own rights. Do not doubt that our people will not lose.

[Christiane Amanpour]

It sounds very aggressive, what you're saying. It sounds like we're headed for real confrontation.

[Mahmoud Ahmadinejad]

You have come and you are putting. You are interfering in our internal affairs against international laws. Who is at fault? Who is being aggressive?

[Christiane Amanpour]

And nearly 21 years later, sure enough, here we are. According to the New York Times, an Israeli strike on his home on the war's first day was intended to free him from house arrest. Instead, Ahmadinejad was injured and the plan failed. You can see why no officials are commenting on this scheme. When we come back as the US Commemorates Memorial Day, some words from a veteran who risked his life to kick Hitler's ass out of Europe. His words, not mine. That's next. And finally, it's the unofficial start of summer in America, with most celebrating a long holiday weekend. Memorial Day, though, is also the solemn remembrance of the sacrifices made by everyone who gave their lives fighting for their country. On Monday, CNN will be airing a special documentary commemorating America's greatest generation and reflections of World War II veterans. It's called why We Dream. And among the voices we hear is Jake Larsons. He was just a teenager when he signed up and ended up among comrades risking it all fighting fascism in Europe. We first met at the 75th anniversary of D Day in Normandy when he was 96 years old. He told us that if he was still alive, he would return for the 80th anniversary. Well, he did. And so did we. Jake told me why he joined the charge.

[WWII Veteran Jake Larson]

Every one of us was prepared to give our life to kick Hitler's ass out of Europe.

[Christiane Amanpour]

And you did.

[WWII Veteran Jake Larson]

And we did. We lost quite a few, but I lost friends. Everybody lost friends. But we were soldiers. We were prepared to give our life.

[Spanish Foreign Minister Jose Manuel Alvarez]

Wow.

[Christiane Amanpour]

You can see why they call Jake and the others the greatest generation. And you can watch our full conversation and the full CNN documentary, why We Dream this Memorial Day on CNN, Monday at 8:00pm Eastern Time. That's all we have time for, though. Don't forget, you can find all of our shows online as part of [e-mail] audio and on all other major platforms. I'm Christiana Monpour in London. Thank you for watching and I'll see you again next week.

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Eva Longoria searching for France.

[Christiane Amanpour]

Now streaming on the CNN app.

[Nick Payton Walsh (alternate voice)]

Influential journalist Kara Swisher is taking a hard look at the longevity industry.

[Rafael Nadal (alternate voice) / Egyptian Foreign Minister Badr Abdelati (context dependent)]

There's so much bad information that the

[Christiane Amanpour]

really good information gets drowned.

[Nick Payton Walsh (alternate voice)]

The new CNN original series Kara Swisher wants to live Forever. Now streaming on the CNN.