Dire Situation in Venezuela

Summary

Amanpour Podcast Summary: "Dire Situation in Venezuela"

Date: June 29, 2026
Host: Bianna Golodryga (sitting in for Christiane Amanpour)
Producers: CNN Podcasts
Runtime Actual Content Covered: ~00:04–54:10

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Episode Overview

This episode of Amanpour centers around the escalating humanitarian crisis in Venezuela after devastating twin earthquakes and the urgent search and rescue efforts underway. The program also explores shifting geopolitics in the Middle East, including renewed US-Iran tensions and the strategic (and personal) relationships between the Trump administration and Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman (MBS). Closing the episode, Elizabeth Storter Pryor, daughter of comedian Richard Pryor, discusses her new memoir about race, identity, and the N-word’s lasting power in American society.

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Venezuela Earthquake Crisis: Search and Rescue in Dire Straits

Correspondents: Bianna Golodryga, Stefano Pozaban
Featured Voices: Ronald Pinerua, Miguel Angeli Garcia (Mexican search team leader)

Setting the Scene

• Human Toll: Over 1,400 confirmed dead, many still missing, 12,000+ displaced (01:08, 04:10).
• Ongoing Threat: Aftershocks continue to fray nerves and complicate rescue work (01:08).
• Government Under Pressure: The quake is the greatest challenge yet for acting President Delsey Rodriguez, appointed after the US-backed ousting of Maduro (02:55).

On the Ground in La Guayra (03:16–06:04)

• Silent Rescue Efforts:
  • “Nobody dares to speak. Nobody dares to shout, because the sound could mean a life saved.”
    —Stefano Pozaban (00:08, 03:16)
• Community Resilience:
  • A fried chicken restaurant converted to a volunteer kitchen, generating 1500 meals for displaced people and rescuers (05:00).
• Personal Tragedy:
  • Ronald Pinerua, a police officer, spends days searching for his son, eventually finding he and his grandmother have perished.
  • The pain, Pozaban notes, “will stay forever” (05:56).

Interview with Stefano Pozaban, Caracas (06:04–13:14)

• Diminishing Hope:
  • The 72-hour window for earthquake rescues is closing; rescuers employ specialized techniques and "tunnels" into concrete to reach possible survivors beneath many collapsed floors (06:39–07:50).
  • “The feeling of silence… is something that… personally, I would have never imagined was possible.” —Stefano Pozaban (07:43)
• Frustration and Delays:
  • Aid bottlenecked by administrative hierarchy, with long waits for logistical decisions and insufficient ground-level organization (09:16–11:08).
  • “There is a lot of idle times. There is a lot of time spent waiting on decisions to be made or decisions to be communicated.” —Stefano Pozaban (09:31)
• Change in Government Response:
  • Unlike Chavez in 1999, Rodriguez is accepting international assistance—even from the US (11:08).
  • Pozaban recalls seeing poignant scenes of a Venezuelan police officer hugging a US rescue worker: “Seeing a Venezuelan police officer hugging a US rescue worker… is something that I would have never imagined.” (12:12)
  • US Marines also present on the ground. (12:30)

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US-Iran Tensions and Global Choke Point Warfare

Host: Bianna Golodryga
Guest: Edward Fishman (Former American diplomat, author of "Chokepoints")

Current Events Recap (14:24–15:35)

• Negotiations resume after Iranian drone strikes in the Strait of Hormuz; the waterway, vital to 20% of global oil trade, is now being used as critical leverage by Iran.

Understanding Choke Points (17:29–18:52)

• Definition: “Parts of the global economy where one country has a dominant position and there are few if any substitutes.”
• Examples:
  • Economic: The US dollar, China’s rare earths.
  • Geographic: Strait of Hormuz.
• Shift in Power:
  • “What we're now seeing… is sort of the reverse, which is that Iran has used its choke point… to coerce the United States to provide Iran with economic relief.” —Edward Fishman (17:50)

The Strait of Hormuz as Choke Point (15:35–21:38)

• Asymmetric Warfare:
  • Iran controls passage using drones, not indiscriminate sea mines—raising perceived risk and shutting down shipping.
  • “Iran… has been able to turn the Strait of Hormuz into a chokepoint that it can use with asymmetric effect.” —Edward Fishman (20:50)
• Global Consequences:
  • The US has few options to restore freedom of navigation without military escalation, which President Trump is reportedly keen to avoid (21:38).
  • Attempts to re-route shipping via Omani waters have only provoked more Iranian attacks (22:00).

The Broader Impact—Choke Point Proliferation (23:21–25:45)

• Other nations (e.g., Indonesia, Houthis) considering similar "service fees" on vital trade routes, inspired by Iran’s windfall (25:00).
  • “Just by charging service fees at the Strait of Hormuz. That is a $40 billion annuity for the Iranian government… other countries… will find it irresistible.” —Edward Fishman (24:42–25:45)

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MBS, President Trump, and Strategic Personal Alliances

Guest: Martin Smith (Producer, PBS Frontline Correspondent)
Documentary: The Crown Prince and the President

Saudi-US Relations Amid Iran War (26:33–29:49)

• MBS’s Calculations: Privately pressed Trump to strike Iran harder after initially expressing caution; reversed as Saudi assets came under attack.
  • “First they wanted to finish it, then they wanted to lay off. So it’s damaged the relationship. The Saudis… are looking elsewhere in the world for security guarantees.” —Martin Smith (29:07)
• Pragmatic Detente: Despite public hawkishness, Saudi Arabia prefers to avoid direct conflict with Iran, seeking diplomatic solutions (29:19).

Shifts Among Gulf States (29:49–31:05)

• UAE’s Different Path: More confrontational with Iran, partners with Israel, and leaves OPEC—contrasting with Saudi diplomatic pragmatism (31:05).

The Personal Nature of Power—MBS & Trump (31:35–34:15)

• Transactional Relationships:
  • Trump’s first foreign visit was to Riyadh; focus was on "peace through prosperity" embodied in the Abraham Accords.
  • Deep business ties: “They buy apartments from me. They spend $40 million, $50 million. Am I supposed to dislike them? I like them very much.” (Cited early and repeated, 00:40, 32:54)
  • Kushner and Mnuchin’s billion-dollar investments from the Saudi sovereign wealth fund post-administration; conflict-of-interest concerns largely brushed aside (33:57).

The Jamal Khashoggi Aftermath (35:56–37:01)

• MBS on Responsibility:
  • Accepts it "happened under my watch."
• Trump’s Dismissal:
  • “He’s asked by a reporter, ‘Did you let him get away with murder?’ He says, ‘No, no, no. This is about America first. We're sticking with Saudi Arabia.’” —Martin Smith (36:45)

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Legacy and Language: Elizabeth Storter Pryor & the N-Word

Host: Michelle Martin
Guest: Elizabeth Storter Pryor (Historian, Author, Daughter of Richard Pryor)

Her Story and Memoir (39:00–47:41)

• Growing Up Pryor:
  • Kept her parentage private: “The best way for me to kind of protect myself… was to start cordoning that reality off.” —Elizabeth Storter Pryor (39:57)
• Defining Moment:
  • Her “points of encounter” with the N-word started in her childhood, including when her father explained both her identity and the gravity of a racial slur following an incident at school (48:01).
  • “You are black, and you are connected to other black people. If anybody ever calls you or them this word, you’ve got to knock them out.” —Richard Pryor (relayed by Elizabeth Storter Pryor, 49:00–49:30)

Richard Pryor and the Word’s Power (47:49–53:39)

• Cultural Impact: Richard Pryor brought the word’s usage—positive and negative—into the mainstream. Later in life, he renounced its use after returning from Africa (50:50–51:36).
  • “The N word really doesn't mean anything outside of the white supremacy of the United States, that it has no meaning for him.” —Elizabeth Storter Pryor, about her father’s epiphany (51:08)

Academic Insights (51:36–54:02)

• History:
  • The word’s origins trace back to labor categorization for enslaved Africans in early 17th-century America; it became a true slur in the 1830s as an assault on black prosperity and freedom (51:53–52:58).
• Lingering Power:
  • “It is always going to be a statement against social injustice, against inequality. And as long as those things are in place, this word is going to resonate for African Americans.” —Elizabeth Storter Pryor (53:39)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Stefano Pozaban on Rescue Efforts:
  “Nobody dares to speak. Nobody dares to shout, because the sound could mean a life saved.” (00:08, 03:16)
• Stefano Pozaban on Venezuela’s Mood:
  “The feeling of silence… is something that… personally, I would have never imagined was possible.” (07:43)
• Edward Fishman on Choke Point Reversal:
  “What we're now seeing… is sort of the reverse, which is that Iran has used its choke point… to coerce the United States to provide Iran with economic relief.” (17:50)
• Martin Smith on Saudi Soft Power:
  “You don’t need an army, you need a… sovereign wealth fund that can help you throw weight around in the world.” (35:15)
• Richard Pryor’s Lesson:
  “You are black, and you are connected to other black people. If anybody ever calls you or them this word, you’ve got to knock them out.” (as told by Elizabeth Storter Pryor, 49:00–49:30)
• Elizabeth Storter Pryor on Trauma of Racism:
  “This isn't… only… this national trauma, this relic of racism past… but it has this intimate hurt.” (44:12)
• On the N-word’s American context:
  “The N word really doesn't mean anything outside of the white supremacy of the United States, that it has no meaning for him.” (51:08)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Venezuela Earthquake Latest & Human Toll: 01:08–05:56
• Pozaban’s On-the-Ground Update: 06:04–13:14
• US-Iran Choke Point Interview (Fishman): 15:35–25:45
• Saudi-US Relations/MBS-Documentary (Smith): 26:33–37:20
• Richard Pryor, Race, and Language (Pryor): 39:00–54:02

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Tone and Style

Throughout, the tone is urgent, empathetic, and deeply analytical. Firsthand accounts and personal stories blend seamlessly with expert interviews and investigative reporting, providing both immediacy and context.

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Takeaway

This episode weaves together on-the-ground reporting from Venezuela’s disaster zone, incisive geopolitical analysis of Middle Eastern power plays, and a reflective, personal exploration of language, race, and legacy in America. It offers both granular insight into the world’s crises and the enduring personal and societal legacies they create.

Transcript

[Bianna Golodryga]

Hello, everyone, and welcome to Amanpour. Here's what's coming up.

[Stefano Pozaban]

Nobody dares to speak. Nobody dares to shout, because the sound could mean a life saved.

[Bianna Golodryga]

A race against time in Venezuela. Reporter Stefano Pozaban gives us the details on the desperate search and rescue efforts amid the earthquake rubble. Then are talks back on track following a weekend of renewed fire between the US And Iran? Former American diplomat Edward Fishman tells me where negotiations stand.

[Stefano Pozaban]

Plus, they buy apartments from me.

[Edward Fishman]

They spend 40 million, 50 million. Am I supposed to dislike them?

[Stefano Pozaban]

I like them very much.

[Bianna Golodryga]

The crown prince and the president, a strategic alliance or one of personal gain? A new documentary explores the tangled relationship between Saudi Arabia's MBS and President Trump. FRONTLINE correspondent Martin Smith joins me.

[Elizabeth Storter Pryor]

Also ahead, the N word really doesn't mean anything outside of the white supremacy of the United States, that it has no meaning for him.

[Bianna Golodryga]

What legendary comedian Richard Pryor taught his daughter about race and identity. Author Elizabeth Storder Pryor speaks to Michelle Martin about her new memoir, something We Said. Welcome to the program, everyone. I'm Bianna Godriga. New York, sitting in for Christian Amanpour. No reprieve for disaster struck Venezuela after an aftershock hit the country earlier today. Although it caused no further damage, it adds to the anguish that Venezuelans have been feeling since last week's twin earthquakes. More than 1,400 people have been confirmed dead. Many are still missing, and thousands are in dire need of humanitarian aid. But amidst the heartbreak, scattered rescuers have offered relief, including that of a mother and her small baby in Caracas. 24 countries have sent aid and thousands of rescue workers are in the country to help with search operations. But frustrations are rife in Venezuela over the government response as the race tightens to save those still buried under the rubble.

[Martin Smith]

We want support. We want heavy machinery. We want to take our family members with us. I'm not the only one in this situation. They're almost not going to let us in here anymore. They haven't helped us clear the rubble.

[Bianna Golodryga]

A collapsing economy and years of political strife under Chavismo are worsening the crisis in what is becoming the biggest challenge yet for acting President Delsey Rodriguez. Stefano Pozaban has been following search and rescue efforts in the hard hit city of La Guayra. Here's his report.

[Stefano Pozaban]

Rescue workers are digging their way through rubble and dust to locate survivors in La Guayra. Trapped for days under a pile of collapsed homes, the port city is ground zero for the Venezuelan earthquake search and rescue operation. This elite rescue team from the US believe they've heard a tap, tap from under the debris. They try to communicate with them with sound. And this is why this is truly a race against time. But it's race against time that is happening in utter silence. Nobody dares to speak, Nobody dares to shout because a sound could mean a life saved.

[Edward Fishman]

There's an elevator too, right?

[Michelle Martin]

Yes, next to the stairs.

[Edward Fishman]

Was it a true center core?

[Stefano Pozaban]

Now all of this is happening as the relatives of the people trapped inside and other survivors are staying here.

[Edward Fishman]

They're waiting.

[Stefano Pozaban]

They're watching. It's an excruciating life for someone who has a seven year old son trapped beneath the rubble. Ronald Pinerua has not slept since Wednesday. He was out when the quakes hit. His son was with his grandmother at home. Amen. I will find my son today, he says. I know I will. It's now or never for thousands of people who are still missing. Most earthquake survivors are rescued within 72 hours. These rescue workers say they will continue to dig until everyone is accounted for. The Venezuelan government estimates more than 12,000 people have been displaced. They all need a place to sleep and eat. We've just arrived to a fast food. It's a fried chicken restaurant, but they've been turned into a community kitchen. Basically all of these people are now working in a train to bring out 1500 ready meals. It's fried chicken and fries. But that will fuel both displaced and volunteers that are trying to help at this restaurant. Everyone lives in La Guayra. Everyone has lived through the double earthquake, but nobody wants to rest. It's the strength of a community who refuses to give up despite the reality. By sunset, the search stopped. Ronald's son was found along with his grandmother under the rubble. The latest victim in a tragedy that's already taken more than 1400 lives. It will still take days to recover their remains, but the pain will stay forever.

[Bianna Golodryga]

Let's bring in Stefano Pozoban now for more updates from Caracas. Stefano, you and I spoke in the last hour and there there is a glimmer of hope every time one of these that have been trapped there for five days are found alive. Including that 21 year old man who you had been reporting on. But that window is shrinking and the aftershocks are still being felt today. Just talk to us about what you are seeing there now. Five days since the double earthquakes and what you're hearing from those search and rescue workers.

[Stefano Pozaban]

Sure, sure, Bjana. Well, yes, the window is shrinking. It hasn't shrunk yet, or at least that is what the search and rescue workers here in the city center of Caracas are telling us. Actually, just after speaking to you an hour ago, we were able to speak with one of the leaders of the Mexican search and rescue team that is working through the rubble behind my back. His name was Miguel Angeli Garcia, and he came out to speak with the media to explain that even though they're using heavy machinery and perhaps they are in the background, we can't get closer at this, but you can see that there are excavators making their way through a pile of debris. Well, he explained to us that that is not a demolition. That is still part of the search and rescue operation. It's just that the people who they believe might still be alive under that pile of debris are alive, but trapped under maybe 7, 8, 9 floors or former floors stacked one on top of each other. So he did say that they're using special techniques developed by the Mexican earthquake rescue team, which is renowned around the world for their capabilities, to try to build tunnels into the debris, into the pile of concrete to make contact with them. And even here in Caracas, of course, it's a little bit more noisy than it was yesterday at that location when we filmed the piece that you just saw. But still, the feeling of silence is one, Brianna, that it's new for me in Venezuela. I've always considered this country one of the loudest and most joyful countries in Latin America at least. And despite the dramatic conditions of the humanitarian crisis happening here in the last 10 years, and yet these earthquake has really managed to silence Venezuela, which is something that, for example, personally, I would have never imagined was possible. And so the feeling of silence, the feeling of mourning, the grief is now boiling to the surface right now because we are five days into this tragedy and people are beginning to start to metastasize, metabolize all of that pain that this nation as a whole, as a community has lived through. Brianna.

[Bianna Golodryga]

And a natural disaster like this of this scale would be a huge challenge for any world leader. But when you look at acting president Delsey Rodriguez, just newly put into place about seven months ago by the United States of America after the raid seizing Maduro, how are Venezuelans responding to how she has been handling this crisis thus far?

[Stefano Pozaban]

Oh, the frustration is building up. I think that the authorities are doing their best, but struggling to manage this situation. At the end of the day, Venezuela is a country that has lived through an authoritarian government over the last two, ten years or so. So the state apparatus is not tasked to act on itself. 1 For example, 1 thing that a lot of rescue workers have shared with us and there was a lot of frustration is there is a lot of idle times. There is a lot of time spent waiting on decisions to be made or decisions to be communicated. We, for example, when we flew in on Friday, we stayed my flight to Caracas was an hour and 40 minutes and then we spent more than two hours just waiting for our luggages to come through at the airport because there was so much aid available there to be mobilized, but not enough people to get organized to sort of situations from the ground up. They were all waiting for instruction from above. And that is something that happens at every layer of this state structure that is reeling after 10 years of a one man government. That was Venezuela under Maduro. He was the person in charge of pretty much everything. And now of course, they have to respond to a catastrophe like something they've never seen before. They are struggling with that. They're doing their best. And clearly the international community has come to help and rescue. There is the feeling that the world has responded by mobilizing a lot of resources. But there is frustration over the slow pace of how these resources are coming down to Venezuela, down to La Guayra, the disaster zone. Yesterday, for example, we were there for an entire day and we saw an enormous amount of collapsed building with rescuers. They are going through, but without cranes or excavators, just with a pike and a shovel.

[Bianna Golodryga]

Yeah. And time is of the essence here, as we know. It is notable that Delsey Rodriguez is accepting aid from every country and that it appears to be offering. And that's quite different from previous regimes in Venezuela. You think about Maduro, you think about Hugo Chavez in 1999 when he turned away outside help from other countries after a devastating landslide.

[Stefano Pozaban]

Yes, These countries different, however, from the 1 of 1999. Back then, Venezuela was one of the wealthiest countries in Latin America. Now it's by far the poorest. I think that this earthquake has changed already the history of Venezuela, like few things that I've seen since coming here 10 years ago. Yesterday, for example, Ronald, the gentleman that lost his son yesterday, and we filmed with him the whole day, he's a member of the police force here. He was open about it. He allowed us to film with it, which is already a first. Normally not many members of the security apparatus here would allow free press to be around them. And then the people who helped him locate what remained of his son were of course the rescue workers from Fairfax County, Virginia. When they found it, the two of them hugged each other. Seeing a Venezuelan police officer hugging a US the rescue workers, of course, are not military, but they're US Uniform with stars and stripes is something that I would have never imagined. We saw yesterday a contingent of Marines arriving in Venezuela. Brianna. And that is the history. I've lived here for 10 years. We would always joke about the Marines coming to La Guayra. The Marines arrived in La Guayra, but unfortunately the circumstances are just too dramatic to point that place in history.

[Bianna Golodryga]

Yeah. It's just unfortunate that it takes a tragedy to bring together scenes of humanity like you've been witnessing. Stefano Pozoban in Caracas, Venezuela Forest thank you and do stay with cnn. We'll be right back after the break.

[Martin Smith]

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[Stefano Pozaban]

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[Edward Fishman]

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[Edward Fishman]

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[Bianna Golodryga]

I'm CNN Tech reporter Claire Duffy this week on the podcast Terms of Service. Franklin Schneider, thanks for doing this.

[Michelle Martin]

My pleasure.

[Bianna Golodryga]

So we had this episode idea because a producer on our team, Hazel, is currently in the midst of an apartment hunt and they have been running into content in listings that appears to be AI generated. You wrote about this phenomenon earlier this year. How did it come to your attention?

[Martin Smith]

It's just become so widespread. I mean, the problem is you can't tell a lot of it is AI

[Michelle Martin]

unless you look very, very, very closely.

[Martin Smith]

I've read industry reports that suggest at least 50% of all listing images have been altered with AI.

[Bianna Golodryga]

Wow.

[Elizabeth Storter Pryor]

And it might be as high as 70, 75%.

[Bianna Golodryga]

Listen to CNN's terms of service wherever you get your podcasts. Now talks between the US And Iran are reportedly back on track, with negotiation teams set to meet in Doha on Tuesday. According to President Trump, both sides agree to stand down for now following a flare up over the weekend with strikes, which began after Iran struck a cargo ship that was passing through the Strait of Hormuz without its permission. Who exactly controls this critical waterway is just one of the many major issues threatening the fragile ceasefire. And without clarity, how likely is a lasting deal? Edward Fishman is a former American diplomat and author of Chokepoints, and he's joining me now from New York. Edward, welcome to the program. So you've said that President Trump has started a war with Iran, only to leave Iran holding what you called quote the most important energy choke point in the world. So how did the strongest country on earth end up receiving end up being on the receiving end of a choke point that it now can't unlock.

[Edward Fishman]

So Biana, I think this is a direct response to the US Israeli war against Iran. We had always known that the Strait of Hormuz is an essential choke point for the energy trade. You've got 20% of global oil sales, about 20% of LNG, let's liquefied natural gas that went through that narrow waterway every day before the war. I think the reason that Iran did not weaponize it is that they required a state of war. The way that they've seized control over the Strait of Hormuz is through drone strikes, through using anti ship missiles. And it's really inconceivable, Bianna, that they would have been using drones against neutral shipping if they weren't in a state of war. So I think this is a direct consequence of the U. S. Israeli war against Iran. And now that Iran has shown that power to the rest of the world, it's going to be extremely difficult to wrest that control away from Iran.

[Bianna Golodryga]

And what's so frustrating, and we haven't been able to really answer the question is that this wasn't a novel issue that so many US Administrations had been warned that this could be and likely is the main leverage that Iran would hold over any military strikes, over any military campaigns. And yet it did seem to take this White House and Israel by surprise when Iran did what it did. It's interesting. You know, Edward, I think back to when your book came out In February of 2020, choke American power in the Age of Economic Warfare. My husband happened to be reading it. I'm like, oh, that's an interesting niche topic. Never, you know, assuming that a year and a half later this would be something that the whole world would be focused on. The Strait of Hormuz, obviously. Exhibit A here. Can you just explain to our viewers what exactly is a choke point and how in 2026 can this narrow pathway of water really hold the global economy in such a strain as it is right now?

[Edward Fishman]

So look, choke points are parts of the global economy where one country has a dominant position and there are few if any substitutes. Most of the choke points that have been used for economic warfare in recent decades have been economic choke points, not physical ones. So you think of the dollar which is involved in 90% of all foreign exchange transactions, or rare earth elements where China refines about 90% of the global supply. You've seen both the US and China use those choke points as economic weapons. I think the older form of choke points, these geographic choke points like the Strait of Hormuz, have also the same sort of potency. The difference of course, is that they're harder to weaponize outside of wartime. Right. You need to be able to be willing to use drones or missiles in order to close off other countries access. I think really the irony here though, Bianna, is that if you think about the 2015 Iran nuclear deal that was fundamentally about the US weaponizing a choke point, namely the dollar putting economic pressure on Iran and coercing Iran to give the United States concessions on its nuclear program. What we're now seeing today is sort of the reverse, which is that Iran has used its choke point, the Strait of Hormuz, to impose economic pressure on the United States and then coercing the United States to provide Iran with economic relief. So I think what we're seeing is that it's not just the United States that can weaponize these choke points, is countries like China and even middle powers like Iran as well.

[Bianna Golodryga]

Yeah, we'll get to China and its weaponization of its rare earth minerals in just a moment. But I do want to get to the three conditions you set for what classify as a real choke point in a Foreign affairs piece. And here's what you wrote. True choke points share three characteristics. A single country or coalition of close allies possesses a dominant concentrated market share. Substitutes are unavailable in the short term. And the country or coalition can weaponize its position in ways that impose asymmetric pressure, inflicting substantial pain on the target while suffering minimal self harm. So does Hormuz meet your own tests today, especially given that Iran is facing its own economic pain by that strait remaining closed if their own ships aren't able to sail through and sell oil?

[Edward Fishman]

Yes, I think you're hitting on exactly what the analytical error of the Trump administration was. I think they assumed that Hormuz would not meet the qualification of choke points because Iran could not weaponize it asymmetrically. The idea was that for Iran to close the strait, they would have to use these sea mines. They have thousands of them. And if you were to put hundreds or thousands of sea mines across this narrow waterway that's only about 20 miles across at its narrowest point, you would be closing off shipping for everyone. Because of course, sea mines don't discriminate. They'll blow up a tanker carrying Saudi oil just as well as they'll blow up a tanker carrying Iranian oil. But the novelty and sort of the surprise that Iran has unleashed is that just by virtue of using these very low cost drones to strike a very small handful of ships, they've only hit about two dozen vessels over the course of this conflict. That has changed the psychology of the whole shipping industry, the risk calculus where you now have ship owners saying, we are not sending our ships through the strait, we don't care what the insurance costs are, whatever, because we're just not going to put our mariners lives at risk. So I do think that Iran, using this sort of asymmetric warfare of drones, has been able to turn the Strait of Hormuz into a chokepoint that it can use with asymmetric effect.

[Bianna Golodryga]

So we've seen two different approaches from this one administration here in the U.S. president Trump has long said that the U.S. will remain in full control over the strait. We had Secretary of State Marco Rubio be a bit, I think, more nuanced and honest last week when he was visiting Gulf allies, saying that it is international law that precludes anyone from controlling the state Strait and thus no country other than Iran would be in support of the status quo. But realistically, is there anything that the United States can do to restore freedom of navigation without the escalation militarily that it does seem President Trump wants to avoid happening again?

[Edward Fishman]

No. And this is a really unfortunate circumstance where we do have international law on our side very clearly. It is not Iran's to choose. It's not Iran's ability. They shouldn't be able to choose who can go through the Strait of Hormuz and who can't. This is a naturally occurring international waterway. But what we saw is just a few days ago when the United nations, under the auspices of the imo, the International Maritime Organization, created a channel through Omani waters to allow ships to evacuate the Strait of Hormuz, Iran responded by hitting two neutral vessels on Thursday. They struck a cargo ship, a Singaporean flagged cargo ship. And just on Saturday, a Panamanian, Panamanian flag tanker carrying Qatari crude oil was struck by an Iranian drone. So I think what is happening right now in real time is the Iranians are trying to enforce with drones that they are going to be the gatekeeper of the Strait of Hormuz, not the United States, not the United Nations. And I think, unfortunately, they're probably going to get what they want unless the United States is willing to go back to the battlefield. And it just doesn't seem like Trump has the appetite to do that right now.

[Bianna Golodryga]

I mentioned the China example of using or having leverage over its rare earths minerals. And it did seem like that surprised the world. European allies, trading partners, the United States as well. But that seemed to be sort of a one and done kind of card that China could hold and play. Because all of these other countries then say, we can't be in this type of position again and we need to invest in our own rare earths or at least diversify who we purchase them from. Could that not be what we see transpire with the Strait of Hormuz as well, looking for alternative routes here so that no country would be put in this bind?

[Edward Fishman]

So, look, it is a common phenomenon with choke points that once you weaponize them, the countries that then feel vulnerable take steps to insulate themselves. So to your point, since China used this rare earth weapon last April, the United States has been investing billions of dollars to try to indigenize our supply chain for rare earth minerals. What I'll say is I do think that those investments are helping, but they're going to take years to bear fruit. So I do think that China is going to retain this leverage for many years into the future. I think similarly with Iran, almost unquestionably, you are going to see more pipelines built to circumvent the Strait of Hormuz. The Emiratis already are working on doubling the capacity of their pipeline to a port called Fujairah. I'm sure the Saudis will do the same. So I do think that the salience of Hormuz will be less than it is today in five or 10 years. But that's still a long time for Iran to have that kind of a leverage over the international energy system. So I do think that, that the potency of Hormuz as a choke point is probably going to go down, but it's not going to happen overnight. It's going to take many years.

[Bianna Golodryga]

Yeah. And that's why, as you wrote in the New York Times, that Iran may be battered militarily and economically, but this has strengthened them strategically, at least in the interim. It's also interesting that you think this could be an example for other countries to exploit choke points. Do you see that happening now?

[Edward Fishman]

Yes, because I think it's really important, as always, to think about incentives. You might be asking, well, why would Iran not just be willing to allow the UN to oversee the Strait of Hormuz? Why do they need exceptions? Control it. Well, the Wall Street Journal came out the other day and said that Iran has calculated Iranian officials that just by charging service fees at the Strait of Hormuz. That is a $40 billion annuity for the Iranian government. It's massive. That's basically like taking their oil revenues and doubling them just by virtue of charging fees at the Strait of Hormuz. So if you think about other countries that would then witness Iran making tens of billions of dollars a year charging fees, basically monetizing this choke point, I think it's going to prove irresistible. We've already seen the Indonesian government flirt with the idea of trying to establish a fee structure at the Strait of Malacca. They've walked that back. But I do worry that if Iran does institutionalize this fee structure moving forward, it's going to prove irresistible for the Indonesians, probably for the Houthis at the Baba Mandab and perhaps other countries as

[Bianna Golodryga]

well, no doubt seeing a windfall that Iran currently has that they didn't have. February 27th. Edward Fishman, thank you so much. Really appreciate the time and the conversation. Well, the Iran war is testing relationships between the US and its Gulf allies, as many nations like Bahrain and Kuwait have bore the brunt of Tehran's targeting of regional American military bases. Saudi Arabia has not allowed the US to carry out strikes from its territory. The nation maintains a layered alliance with Washington, one that can be seen as strategic but also involves business ties with President Trump and his family. It's the focus of the new documentary the Crown Prince and the President. Here's the trailer. This is the grandest reception that essentially

[Elizabeth Storter Pryor]

we've seen for any therapy.

[Stefano Pozaban]

He sees that there's kind of a realist calculation about what America's interests are

[Edward Fishman]

and it is to remain very closely allied.

[Martin Smith]

Why did President Trump see the Saudis as important to his America first agenda?

[Elizabeth Storter Pryor]

President Trump saw Saudi Arabia as really the linchpin to the modern Middle East.

[Stefano Pozaban]

They buy apartments from me.

[Edward Fishman]

They spend 40 million, 50 million. Am I supposed to dislike them?

[Stefano Pozaban]

I like them very much.

[Bianna Golodryga]

Producer of the film and PBS Frontline correspondent Martin Smith is joining me now from New York. Martin, welcome to the show. So as it relates to the war and Iran, which your piece ends on, but let's start this conversation discussing you and other media outlets have reported, reported that MBS Saudi officials had been against this war being launched by Israel and the United States, but that once it started, MBS then started pressing President Trump repeatedly and you report several times in one week urging him to finish the job then that he started and not leave a wounded but still powerful enough Iran that can strike its neighbors as it has been. How do you square the public posture of that restraint with the private pressure as the war was going on in its first few months of escalating.

[Martin Smith]

Well, I think that the Crown Prince was wise and knew that striking Iran was going to have a lot of serious consequences and it was not predictable exactly what would happen, although the closing of the strait was predicted. But then once it started, he wanted the President, as you mentioned, and we go into this in the documentary, that he wanted the President to strike even harder. And he encouraged him on at least three occasions in one week and perhaps more. And then the Iranians struck his airport, an airport near Riyadh, and struck oil facilities. And he started to feel the cost of this. And the public in Saudi Arabia was certainly alarmed. And so he, he wanted this to end. So the Saudis, I think, were really somewhat confounded about what to do once the war had started. First they wanted to finish it, then they wanted to lay off. So it's damaged the relationship. The Saudis, in fact, are looking elsewhere in the world for security guarantees that they're not getting from the U.S. how

[Bianna Golodryga]

do you think that's changed how MBS approaches Iran going forward, no matter what happens between the United States and Iran, if they ultimately do reach some sort of longer term deal?

[Martin Smith]

Well, I think they were doing that prior to this war. I think they had some arrangements with, with Iran and I think that they're going to want to continue to pursue that. I mean, Iran is just across the water from them, is a big powerful neighbor and they don't want to go to war with them. So I think it's going to increase their diplomatic initiatives to make some kind of come to some kind of detente with them.

[Bianna Golodryga]

And as you said, that was the path they were pursuing, which was quite opposite of how the UAE had been approaching Iran leading up to this war. And the UAE chose a different path, a more hawkish path, even partnering up with Israel and I believe, as has been reported, striking inside Iran during the kinetic war here as well, before the ceasefire. Do you sense an ideological difference between MBS and MBZ in the uae?

[Martin Smith]

Well, they were very tight and MBZ was a champion of mbs. When MBS was moving to become the Crown Prince, he promoted him. His ambassador in Washington promoted the idea that MBS was the guy that we should be paying attention to. But over time and over the war in Iran, I'm sorry, the war in Yemen, they worked together and then they worked against one another. So the one thing about the Middle east, anybody that covers this knows that it's constantly shifting and Changing. So now the UAE is more aligned with Trump and the Saudis a bit less so. But that can change overnight.

[Bianna Golodryga]

Yeah, but one of the examples of how quickly things change, I mean, the fact that the UAE has left opec, too, in the midst of all of this, was quite a big headline at the time as well. Let's talk about the film's title, because it is the Crown Prince and the president. So it's not about two governments, it's about two men. Why are the men here and their relationship the focus of your investigation, which has been over the course of a decade, I believe

[Martin Smith]

that's right. So both. Both men are transactional and see foreign policy as something that they would choose to conduct on a personal basis. And so right from the beginning, when Trump was elected in his first term, the Saudis sent a delegation to New York to meet with Trump officials. They singled out Jared Kushner as somebody that could be an effective conduit. And Trump then accepted an invitation to make his first foreign trip overseas to Riyadh. And that was an unusual move. Usually presidents go to Canada or Mexico or Europe. He wanted to go to Saudi Arabia because he saw, and Kushner was sort of. It was his brainchild, that if you could get Saudi Arabia on board and get Saudi Arabia to recognize Israel, what later became known as the Abraham Accords, you could get the rest of the countries in the region, the other Arab states, to recognize Israel, and you would have a. You would have Middle east peace. And it's all seen as transactional through business ties. I mean, the mantra of Kushner was peace through prosperity. If you could make people wealthy, they would be less likely to attack one another.

[Bianna Golodryga]

You spent a lot of time in this film covering Jared Kushner's ties to mbs, and there are clips of him even saying early on in this administration, in the first term that he was not very familiar with Saudi Arabia diplomatically. And he was able to admit that publicly, but said that he thought that it was an opportunity to try something different the previous administrations had failed to do. That was his approach to it. After Trump left office in 2020, Jared Kushner didn't return to his real estate company. Instead, he launched a private equity firm in Affinity Partners. And then that took a $2 billion investment from Saudi sovereign wealth fund. Six months after Jared Kushner left the White House, the Public Investments Fund's own screening panel had flagged affinity's inexperience and called this operation unsatisfactory. And the board that MBS Leads overrode those objections. Here's how you highlighted it in the film.

[Martin Smith]

Kushner was not the only bet MBS made. He wasn't alone. Steve Mnuchin also walks into a billion dollars. Steve Mnuchin, the Treasury secretary, also walks into Saudi and gets a billion dollar investment. It's like a piggy bank for former American officials. That's incredible.

[Edward Fishman]

It's incredible.

[Martin Smith]

And normally would be the cause of a great storm of controversy and there would be hearings, there would be, you know, investigations, there would certainly be a lot of commentary and criticism.

[Elizabeth Storter Pryor]

And it kind of came and went.

[Martin Smith]

Mnuchin and Kushner have brushed off concerns about conflicts of interest. They were private citizens at the time.

[Bianna Golodryga]

And Kushner, we should note, as you allude to in your piece there, denied that the investment represented a conflict of interest. So were you able to answer the question of what mbs, what Saudi Arabia was actually attempting to buy here with this investment?

[Martin Smith]

I can really only speculate on that. But the public investment fund had been a very conservative fund, invested in domestic companies. It invests in Saudi Arabia, it invested in treasury bills. They were not doing what they did after. We're really after the Shoji murder, they started investing or they had been ramping up investments overseas, especially in the United States. I think some 40% of their investments were in the United States. And this gives them influence overseas. It makes them an important player on the, on the world's investment. You know, so as one person says in the program today, you don't need an army, you need a, you need a sovereign wealth fund that can help you throw weight around in the world. So I think that, you know, that's what I think that they were after.

[Bianna Golodryga]

You mentioned Jamal Khashoggi, human rights. And MBS's records on this are covered in this film as well. And you talked to MBS yourself and he told you that the killing of Jamal Khashoggi, quote, happened under my watch and that he took responsibility for that. Given that it was under his watch watching President Trump defend MBS and go one step further, just sort of dismissing it as things happen, how was that interpreted in the kingdom?

[Martin Smith]

Well, I think there was a sigh of relief that, that they could go as far as they had gone, both in, in a slew of human rights abuses, arresting so called dissidents, writers, journalists and whatever, and all the way up through the murder of the Shoji. The relationship did not, you know, that Trump did not pull back. He said, we're going to stay with Saudi Arabia. He's asked by a reporter, did you let him get away with murder? He says, no, no, no. This is about America first. We're sticking with Saudi Arabia.

[Bianna Golodryga]

Martin Smith, you get into a lot over the course of those 10 years that you've been investigating these two men and their relationship. I encourage everyone to watch it. The crown prince and the president will be available to watch on PBS stations and online from June 30th on. Martin Smith, thank you so much for joining us.

[Martin Smith]

Thank you for having me.

[Bianna Golodryga]

And we'll be right back after this short break.

[Stefano Pozaban]

Craig Ferguson is going coast to coast to unpack what it really means to be an American today.

[Martin Smith]

What could possibly go wrong?

[Stefano Pozaban]

CRAIG ferguson, American on purpose. New episodes now streaming on the CNN app. Go to CNN.com watch to subscribe or log in with your TV provider.

[Elizabeth Storter Pryor]

I'm Dr. Sanjay Gupta, host of the Chasing Life podcast. Nelson Delos is a six time US Memory champion who not only trained his

[Stefano Pozaban]

brain to work better, but he also

[Elizabeth Storter Pryor]

wrote about it for his new book called Everyday Genius.

[Michelle Martin]

You know, the message is, is that everybody, no matter where you are in

[Bianna Golodryga]

life, what you think your memory currently

[Elizabeth Storter Pryor]

is capable of, we all can transform

[Edward Fishman]

our brain, the mind and memory is

[Michelle Martin]

just like any other skill that you can learn and it's not a fixed thing.

[Elizabeth Storter Pryor]

Listen to Chasing Life streaming now, wherever

[Stefano Pozaban]

you get your podcasts.

[Edward Fishman]

Now.

[Bianna Golodryga]

How a single word can shape history, identity and family. Elizabeth Storter Pryor began researching the changing use and power of the N word after an incident in her classroom with a white student. Growing up as a biracial woman in America, she always understood the words impact. But it wasn't until later, when connecting with her father, legendary comedian Richard Pryor, that she began to process how that word influences questions of selfhood. Elizabeth joins Michelle Martin to discuss her new book, something We Said, and about what it reveals about language and family legacy.

[Michelle Martin]

Thanks, Bianna. Professor Elizabeth Storter Pryor, thank you so much for joining us.

[Elizabeth Storter Pryor]

Thank you for having me.

[Michelle Martin]

You know, I have to tell you, I've followed your work for years. Your TED Talk, for example. It's been viewed more than 2 million times. Until you wrote this book, I never knew that you were Richard Pryor's daughter. And I kind of got the impression from reading the book that you preferred it that way. You at least preferred it that way professionally, am I correct?

[Elizabeth Storter Pryor]

Professionally and personally, 100%. It was in doing this work and writing this book that I finally started to publicly and I guess privately claim my father because I don't know it Was just awkward for me, really.

[Michelle Martin]

I mean, come on. He was one of the most famous. Certainly one of the. He was, at one point, he was one of the most famous comedians in America. He was certainly one of the most influential black comedians in America. One of the most famous, I guess, entertainers.

[Elizabeth Storter Pryor]

Well, it hadn't. I mean, I've always been so proud of my father and wanted to claim him, but it was just there were so many intrusive questions when I was younger that people would ask me, do you know him? Are you close? How often do you see him? And then my father became as famous for his demons in some ways as he did for his brilliance. And people would talk to me about that. And the best way for me to kind of protect myself, not from my father or my connection to him, but from people's intrusion, was to start cordoning that reality off. And I didn't do it until I really got into the middle of this work.

[Michelle Martin]

How I read the book is that you intended to start writing a scholarly treatise about the origin of the N word, as we now call it, and you're gonna tell us more about that. But the family story kept intervening, you know, kind of the way like a pesky kid keeps coming into your study when you're trying to get your work done. Would you say more about that?

[Elizabeth Storter Pryor]

I mean. Well, first of all, as I delved into the research, there was few things that I read that didn't mention Richard Pryor. Okay, so he is. Part of his groundbreaking work is to bring like the authentic authenticity of the black experience that he had growing up and speaking that way. And that included the black use of the N word that many Americans had never really, you know, engaged with before. And he brought that on stage. And that two of his Grammy Award winning albums from the 1970s have the n word in the title. So his name came up over and over again. And in fact, this journey started in my classroom when a white student said the N word, quoting a line from a 1974 film, Blazing Saddles, that my father co wrote.

[Michelle Martin]

That your father co wrote? That he co wrote.

[Elizabeth Storter Pryor]

Well, what happened shocked me because I actually froze and had no idea, like, what to do. I really became sort of un disarmed in that moment in the classroom, in front of my students, in real time. And it kind of catapulted me into a journey, a three pronged discovery, really, because I knew something was happening to me on a personal level. I knew I had to be more intentional as a classroom teacher about how to teach the history of racism and pay attention to the fact that racism would appear at times in the classroom, even inadvertently, and how to negotiate that and to think about, did I even know what this word meant? And digging into that history. And it was in that history that I kept confronting my father more and more and in my own memories.

[Michelle Martin]

You've described sort of very movingly how, I hope you don't object to this word, how traumatic in some ways it was for those thoughts to keep intruding into your scholarly work. I mean, you describe it very vividly. You write about this early in the book. And you said, look, in a daze, I walked back to my office trying to process what happened. How could a group of six letters so easily throw me off my game? As a black professor of African American history, this was exactly the kind of racially charged moment I thought I should know how to handle. But instead of guiding the students and taking charge, I just stood there. Growing up with my white Jewish mother and going to mostly white schools, I never felt comfortable saying the N word. It dried up on my tongue like dirt, even though it was a mainstay of my father's comedy. But in academia, there was an expectation to say the word for the sake of historical accuracy, known as the mention exception. And then you sort of go on to sort of talk about how it sent a chill through the classroom. And even you, you sat on a bench, catching your breath. I just found that so profound that it had, like, almost like a physical reaction. Can you say, why do you think it is?

[Elizabeth Storter Pryor]

Well, what I know is that there is a way in which this racism is not processed. There was no. I know growing up, I had no space to even have the conversation, which is part of the reason I wrote the book, is I was hoping that people could have a jumping off point to really understand that this isn't. And I think trauma is the right word, but that this doesn't only represent this national trauma, this relic of racism past, if you will, but it has this intimate hurt. This intimate and hurt, even hurt, diminishes what it does because this is clearly part of systemic racism. But it touches us in these ways that are so uniquely personal to us, even as it has this national impact. And I think that's what I saw in that moment that I didn't really understand before it.

[Michelle Martin]

Say more about your own story, if you would. Your parents came from very different worlds. Your father was a young black comedian from segregated Peoria, Illinois. Some people know his backstory. You do go into it a bit in the book. But that he was raised in a brothel. I mean, his grandmother was a madam. His mother was a sex worker. His dad was a pimp. He grew up like you describe in the book. You know, seeing the people who cooked his breakfast and sent him off to school, having to have sex with strangers for their job. I mean, you describe this in really sort of vivid terms. Your mom was a white Jewish woman from Boston. His first serious white girlfriend. How did they meet?

[Elizabeth Storter Pryor]

They met in a nightclub called Cafe Wa in Greenwich Village when they were like, 22 and 23, and they were on dates with other people and they liked each other better. Yeah.

[Michelle Martin]

Oh, okay.

[Elizabeth Storter Pryor]

And that was that.

[Michelle Martin]

You know, you were born. There's a picture of you, of him holding you as a baby, you know, in the book. But you didn't actually meet him until you were six. Six years old. I mean, you have a really vivid memory of it. Do you mind telling that story?

[Elizabeth Storter Pryor]

Not at all.

[Michelle Martin]

Your parents split up, obviously. They split up. Obviously.

[Elizabeth Storter Pryor]

I mean, they split up pretty much right after I was born, and my mom took me back to her. They were in la, and my father was making it in Hollywood. And my mom went basically with her tail between her legs back to her folks in Boston and raised me with them. And she wrote him a letter when I was about six years old because my father was not involved at all and said, how is it possible that I love a child so much and her father feels nothing? And a few weeks or months later or so, my father sent for us, and we went to Newark, New Jersey, to watch him perform. And that was the first time I met my father. And I met him in a hotel room when he was about to go on stage. And I. The second I saw him, I was head over heels. I was like, wait, this is what having a father is like? Yes, I want this. And I was terrified I was never gonna see him again because I hadn't seen him for so long.

[Michelle Martin]

Would you describe the. In your TED Talk, you call these moments of encounter with the N word?

[Elizabeth Storter Pryor]

Yes.

[Michelle Martin]

I wanted to ask you, like, two stories, like, what was your moment of encounter with the N word in his work? But what was your moment of encounter with it in your own life?

[Elizabeth Storter Pryor]

In my class, in my conversations, in my workshops, over and over again, people would tell me about these unprocessed moments that they had with the N word and not really knowing how to respond or what to do. And I came to call them points of encounter. And as I. I dug more deeply into my own life, I realized, of course, I had them, too. One of them was the very first meaningful conversation I had with my father. So, like I said, I thought I was never going to see him again. And then he appeared for my seventh birthday, like, which I was so shocked. And my mother was like, you know, tell your father what happened at school. Well, what happened at school was two boys had called me the N word at the playground. And I got the sense that this was really different because my white teachers, who always told me, you're not stupid when the kids call me stupid. You're not ugly when the kids called me ugly, didn't tell me I wasn't an N word when the kids. N word. So I was like, what is happening here? So I told my father at this dinner for my birthday, and I thought he was going to be ashamed of me for not being stronger and sticking up for myself. And he said, you know, don't let nobody ever call you that. And he said, you are black. Which I did not know. I knew I was Jewish. I didn't think I was white because I didn't know that either. White didn't mean anything to me either. But he said, you are black, and you are connected to other black people. And if anybody ever calls you or them this word, you've got to knock them out. That was the direction, the marching orders.

[Michelle Martin]

So how did you figure out that the N word was such a big part of his work?

[Elizabeth Storter Pryor]

Well, I knew it was part of his work, but I didn't know that it mattered. I didn't know that he had a journey with the N word. Let me put it that way. That he was building on black power luminaries, that this was an artistic decision, that he had walked off of a Las Vegas stage in 1967 and said, I'm not doing shtick or vaudeville anymore, but I'm speaking authentically, whatever that is. I am going to be the real Richard Pryor and a truth teller on stage. I mean, they accidentally shoot more out here than any place in the world every time you pick up paper. Accidentally shot in the ass. How do you accidentally shoot a six times in a chest? Well, my gun fell and just went crazy. And I didn't understand that part of it that that was connected. And then at the end of the 70s, when my father is at pretty much the height of his fame, he goes on a journey to Africa inspired by, you know, Alex Haley's roots. He goes to Africa and he has this epiphany there that in the context of Kenya, where black people are doing the most menial things and running the country, that the N word really doesn't mean anything outside of the white supremacy of the United States, that it has no meaning for him. And he vows that he's never going to call another black man the N word again. And he pulled me aside before he said that on stage and told me that he was never gonna call anybody the N word again. And as far as I know, he never did.

[Michelle Martin]

Wow. So here's where I need you to put your professor hat on, because one of the interesting things about the book is this is a meditation into the origins of the word, how it became a slur and what social meaning it has. Okay, so as briefly as you can, what is the origin of. Of this word?

[Elizabeth Storter Pryor]

The word did exist, and not exactly as a slur in 1619, when the first, you know, 20 enslaved people were kidnapped and brought to Jamestown. Those people were referred to in the records as the N word. But at that point, that word, you know, described a labor category, people marked by the color of their skin, involuntary labors in perpetuity. You know, me, my children, my children's children. And then it really becomes a slur in the 1830s, when black people become free and are still called this word. So this is less an indictment on black people being enslaved and more on a statement of the impossibility in this ideology of black people ever really becoming free. It's an assault, an attack on black prosperity. And that's where you hear the N word used as the slur that we understand it to be today.

[Michelle Martin]

Why do you think all these years later, decades, actually centuries later, this word retains so much power?

[Elizabeth Storter Pryor]

I mean, it really is a representation of the racial and foundational racial racist history of the United States in so many ways. And one of the questions I asked myself for a long time, I mean, I understand why. I do still understand the kind of ways that it's vicious and used by, you know, racist. But why would black people want to use a word? The question might be to subjugate us. And I think the.

[Michelle Martin]

That's.

[Elizabeth Storter Pryor]

That's a misguided question, because the real question is why does it still resonate for black people to use among each other from certain places? And I think it is always going to be a statement against social injustice, against inequality. And as long as those things are in place, this word is going to resonate for African Americans.

[Michelle Martin]

Elizabeth Storter. Pryor. Professor Pryor, thank you so much for talking with us.

[Elizabeth Storter Pryor]

Thank you so much for having me.

[Bianna Golodryga]

And that is it for now. If you ever miss our show, you can find the latest episode episode shortly after it airs on our podcast. And remember, you can always catch us online on our website and all over social media. Thanks so much for watching and goodbye. From New York,

[Edward Fishman]

This is CNN meteorologist Derek Van Dam, thrilled to introduce the

[Michelle Martin]

new CNN weather app. Be prepared for anything with comprehensive coverage

[Edward Fishman]

from real experts like me.

[Michelle Martin]

Download the CNN weather app on iOS today.

[Stefano Pozaban]

Hey, I'm Anderson Cooper. On my podcast, All There Is, we explore grief and loss in all its complexities. Wherever you are in the world and in your grief, I'm glad you're here. My guest is actress, writer, artist Sharon Stone. When you think of grief, what do you think of?

[Bianna Golodryga]

I think of the way that I've dealt with it in my life, losing so many members of my immediate family. I think of it with a very open heart.

[Stefano Pozaban]

You came very close to dying.

[Bianna Golodryga]

Yeah, yeah. In fact, some would say I did die and was defibrillated and brought back. I had that white light experience which has stayed upon my shoulder and made me feel quite safe in this continued existence.

[Edward Fishman]

Talking grief, building community. That's what the podcast is all about.

[Stefano Pozaban]

This is all there is. Listen and follow wherever you get your podcasts.