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- [00:00]
Christiane Amanpour
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- [00:31]
Sepideh Moafi
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- [01:09]
Christiane Amanpour
Hello everyone and welcome to the Amanpour Hour. Here's where we're headed this week. I'm the Boss. A victory lap from the US President. But is Iran's Islamic regime making hay as a memorandum of understanding is signed between them? The President of the United Nations General Assembly, Annalina Baerbock joins me on the diplomatic fallout and has anything changed for the Iranian people? Journalists Yegan Torbaty and Bozor Meir Sharafeddin on the current state of the regime and their new book, Stolen Revolution. Also ahead amid World cup mania, how football is bringing together dads suffering unfathomable losses.
- [01:51]
Yegan Torbaty
There is nothing more masculine than a
- [01:53]
Christiane Amanpour
group of lads sitting around crying, hugging
- [01:56]
Yegan Torbaty
each other, supporting each other.
- [01:57]
Christiane Amanpour
That's manly. Then on World Refugee Day, star of the Pit, Sepideh Moafi talks about her journey from Iranian refugee to TV's hottest show. She joins us with the International Rescue Committee's Shirin Ebrahim.
- [02:12]
Sepideh Moafi
I have lived with the stories and the journey of my parents and the pain of displacement and exile my whole life. And this has fueled my advocacy work and my work as an artist.
- [02:24]
Christiane Amanpour
And from my archive, what a refugee crisis looks like up close. My report from the Mediterranean at the height of this crisis in 2015. Welcome to the programme, everyone. I'm Christiana Manpour in London, and it seems that some of the world's largest powers are learning a bitter lesson. Do not underestimate your your less powerful foes. In their Memorandum of Understanding this week, Iran seemed to get almost everything it wanted out of Washington the immediate ability to export its oil and a potential future lifting of oil sanctions in exchange for an end to the war, an open strait of Hormuz, which of course was the norm before the war began in February. Now Russia, too, is facing the reality of underestimating Ukrainian resistance. President Putin has been lashing out in increasingly risky ways. Here in the English Channel, a Russian war warship fired warning shots at a British yacht. This week I spoke to one of the most experienced European foreign policy officials, the president of the UN General assembly and the former German Foreign Minister, Anneline Baerbock. Annelina Baerbock, welcome back to our program.
- [03:37]
Annalena Baerbock
Thank you so much for having me on the show.
- [03:39]
Christiane Amanpour
So there are big issues that are being talked about right now, issues that are not just global but also very pertinent to the United Nations. Let me ask you first about what you think is going to be the result of this MoU between the United States and Iran. What do you think it's going to lead to?
- [03:57]
Annalena Baerbock
Hopefully to more peace and ending the consequences all around the world, because ending hostilities, ending a war is always a good thing. Yet we have to be very honest to ourselves to see where the world stood before February 28th. And some of the dramatic consequences will be felt even in months after fertilizers not getting to different parts of the world, especially to those who need it most, will be consequential for the poorest around the world not having the harvest they should have. Also the energy prices hit the poorest most. And we should not forget about the people of Iran demanding freedom for themselves for a very, very long time. And therefore a ceasefire, an end of war, an end of hostilities is always very important. It's always the best we can achieve. Yet should not ignore the reasons after this war. And also that the secretary General and I called immediately to everyone that the charter is not optional, but that there's a reason that member states should settle their disputes peacefully. Should be one of the strongest reminders of the last month.
- [05:15]
Christiane Amanpour
Let's talk about Ukraine, which you were very involved with when you were Germany's foreign minister in the aftermath of the full scale invasion by Putin. But it appears that Russia is becoming, I don't know, it's being described as maybe more desperate, maybe Putin more paranoid. All sorts of activities are being blamed on Russia right here in the UK for instance, in the English Channel, they're blaming Russia backed arsonists for damage against properties connected with the British prime Minister. All those things are going on. What do you think the UN can do about it, given that Russia is part of the Security Council and has a veto and the General assembly, which you're president of, doesn't have that power to constrain a member state.
- [06:01]
Annalena Baerbock
This is the big challenge of the United Nations. This institution was, as one Secretary General said at the beginning, not built to bring humankind to heaven, but to prevent it from hell. And it's in the hands of the member states 193, to follow up on the principle they all signed back 80 years ago. And if a permanent member of the Security Council, which is by definition responsible for upholding peace and security around the world, is violating that charter by itself, an institution like the un, which doesn't have any preceding powers, cannot solve this problem alone. And this is why the debates within the United nations in the General assembly by 193 member states are so crucial. And therefore the majority of the General assembly has made very, very clear in all the last years that this is a fundamental breach of the Charter of the United nations, that Russia has to withdraw their troops, that we need just and lasting peace. And having a refocus on these debates is extremely important because people are dying every day. And as you mentioned, this is a hybrid warfare. We see the consequences again all around the world with regard to in the past grain prices, with also energy prices, but also as we saw for example in Romania, where a drone hit a civilian place, even in the territory of the European Union.
- [07:39]
Christiane Amanpour
We're talking at a time when the UN has been struggling to assert its legitimate and historic positions on the world stage. The United States current administration kind of sidelines the UN to a great extent. It's the United States which has cut all of this aid, especially to the un, especially humanitarian affairs, particularly around the Ebola breakout. We also see the Board of Peace is a US construction. And the director of that has said in his own words that despite six months or more now of the ceasefire in Gaza, there are, quote, no Recovery in Gaza, 80% of the buildings destroyed, no reconstruction barely begun. Israeli forces now control up to 60 or even more percent of the strip, well beyond the line the cease fire was supposed to bring them back to Palestinians. At least, at least 980 have been killed since the ceasefire. I mean, isn't that a slap in the face to the United Nations?
- [08:37]
Annalena Baerbock
The heavy cuts by member states which you mentioned are dramatic and we should not sugarcoat. People are dying because of that. And we even have aid in warehouses which cannot be delivered to infants, for example. And we have to ask also ourselves at this moment. Why are we endangering all the successes from the past? I mentioned Ebolo. Another example is HIV. This was one of these global diseases more than 30 years ago where the world did not know what to do. They joined hands. We managed to control it and now we are on the edge of destroying the success at the last miles because the cuts are being so heavy. But to be frank and open, it's not only the U.S. the U.S. is one of the biggest donors because of their size and the non payment by the US Is dramatic as I described. Yet also other member states did not pay yet full and definitely not in time. So it's a fundamental discussion which we have to have in the United nations about the funding system itself.
- [09:46]
Christiane Amanpour
Annalina Baerborg, President of the UN General assembly, thank you for being with us.
- [09:50]
Annalena Baerbock
Thank you.
- [09:52]
Christiane Amanpour
So the UN really needs to get back on up, being fit for purpose. And coming up next, the US Promised regime change in Iran, but their agreement to end the war falls far short of that goal. How it fits into more than a century of Iranians rising up against their rulers. And on this Father's Day weekend, how the beautiful game is helping bereaved dads heal.
- [10:20]
Yegan Torbaty
Finding a source you can trust for weather forecasts should be easy, right? This is CNN meteorologist Derek Van Dam, thrilled to introduce the new CNN weather app. Check your daily forecast to plan your day, the weekly forecast to see what's on the way and prepare for any major storm with our robust real time video coverage. The app is stunning. And if you're a weather nerd like me, you'll love our in depth stories and the photo of the day. Download the CNN weather app on iOS today tab. I GOT news for your ears. The podcast I am your host Michael Ian Black. We're talking about Trump's big boy birthday party with fight gives Trump his real present. Or did they? Plus, the Kennedy center returned to its former glory just in time to get
- [11:09]
Christiane Amanpour
defiled by Bill Maher.
- [11:11]
Yegan Torbaty
Have I GOT NEWS for your ears. Check us out on Apple, Amazon Music, wherever you get your podcast. Even better, you can watch the Vodcast on Spotify.
- [11:24]
Christiane Amanpour
Welcome back to the program. It began as an effort to break the regime, but the war on Iran seems to be ending with a return to the status quo. This this week, President Trump claimed he, quote, never cared about regime change. So where does this leave the Iranian people? Recent history suggests that moments of crisis have only served as opportunities for the state to adapt and endure. In their new book, Stolen Revolution, journalists Yegan Etorbati and Bozog Meir Sharafeddin Chronicle Half a century of upheaval from the 1979 Islamic Revolution to the Woman Life Freedom movement. It follows the stories of six citizens who lived through the decades long struggle against the regime and the endless cycle of hope and disillusionment that came with it. I spoke to the authors. Welcome to the program.
- [12:17]
Yegan Torbaty
Hi, thanks for having us.
- [12:18]
Bozor Meir Sharafeddin
Thank you so much, Christian.
- [12:20]
Christiane Amanpour
So what do you think, given the title of your book is Stolen Revolution and we'll get more into that, what do you think immediately will be the political manifestation of a post war Iran vis a vis the people of Iran?
- [12:34]
Yegan Torbaty
For the Islamic Republic, it's going to be a difficult task to sell this deal internally because it's for the hardliners. We see that they are very critical of the deal and for them it doesn't make sense for the Islamic Republic to make a deal with the US Only a few months after they killed their leader, the supreme leader. I see that the way they are trying to sell the deal is that this is going to give the Islamic Republic a breathing space to rebuild its offensive and defensive capabilities to get ready for a full on confrontation in the future. So that's the from the Islamic Republic perspective, it seems that they think that this is a good deal because they can regroup and rethink their strategies and plan ahead for future. But I think for the Iranian people, the outcome is quite disappointing because in the eyes of many Iranians, the war didn't start on February 28th. It started from January when thousands, maybe millions of Iranians came to the streets and President Trump told them to remain on the streets because the help was on its way. So in the eyes of many Iranians, they were expecting this military campaign to be a way that they will overthrow the Islamic Republic with the help of Americans. So in the question of, on the question of the regime change, in the eyes of many Iranians, the regime hasn't changed, only it has changed to a worse version of itself.
- [14:16]
Christiane Amanpour
Yegoni, you know very well that many of the opponents of this regime inside Iran, outside Iran, never believed in reform. They said that it's just a joke, it's just a ruse. There's no way of reforming this particular system. I don't know whether you have a comment on that, but I'm really interested in your view on why not just from 1979, but even before under the Shah, even going all the way back to the, you know, to the constitutional revolution. Back at the Beginning of the 20th century, Iranian regimes and leaders Whether they're monarchist or not, or secular like Mosaddegh or whatever it is, have apparently never been accountable to their people. They just have not had that kind of popular legitimacy. And every time there is a, you know, an uprising, they get crushed. And obviously in the last nearly 50 years as well, do you see it that way? And do you have an answer for
- [15:12]
Bozor Meir Sharafeddin
why it is true that over the last hundred plus years of Iranian history, we've seen these repeated kind of aborted attempts at greater freedom, starting from the Constitutional revolution, going through Mossadegh's movement through 1979, which, you know, we document in the book and many others have as well, that there were elements and large parts of that revolutionary movement that wanted greater freedoms and believe that getting rid of the Shah would, would bring them those freedoms politically. And instead what they, what they got was greatly curtailed social freedoms and eventually very, very, very restrictive political space as well. And so I think, you know, what we, what we sort of try to trace in the book is the fact that the Iranian people keep trying in different ways and they turn to different methods. Whether it's first voting, you know, in 1997, voting in this very unexpected way, really for the first time for a candidate that was not openly favored by the Supreme Leader, we took the system by surprise. Then when that was stymied, you know, they turned to peaceful street protests and they vote again in the Green movement. And then over and over in the last 10 or 15 years or so, we see round after round of protests and, you know, that I don't expect that impulse to go away.
- [16:35]
Christiane Amanpour
So, Bozoume, finally, you don't just, you know, focus on leaders and the like, but also on ordinary people. For instance, the story of Hila Sediri, a teenager who you report was trying to organize Poetry Nights, only to have it shut down over and over again. But she keeps pushing. Eventually one of the bureaucrats signs the permit and tells her, I'm lighting this fire both for you and for me. It's a small act of resistance, obviously from her, but also from him. So tell me about that and where you think the people of Iran are going to find themselves now in post war Iran. Do you think this regime will understand that they need to respond to the people's needs or else get kicked out?
- [17:22]
Yegan Torbaty
Yeah, I think the way I see the Iranian society is like a frozen river, so because on the surface we see this ice and we see the political system is very, very rigid, but deep inside we see a flow, a stream, a very strong stream of cultural and social life. And I think Hila Sediri represents that and that culture that how Iranians in deeper layers of the society are fighting for freedom. In the book, we didn't want to limit ourselves to the political level because the full Iranian experience, it also includes the cultural and social and also economic layers of the Iranian society, which we explain in the book. Hila represents that social and cultural parts that how she tries to, she tries really hard to find some freedom in the cultural space. She goes through negotiations with many government officials to create some safe space for creating culture. Of course, she's disappointed over and over. But as we see and as we see in her personal life, she comes back and only fights stronger. And I think that shows the spirit of the nation that whatever is the result of their attempts, if it's failure, they will go and reinvent themselves and come back again.
- [18:46]
Christiane Amanpour
Yegan, obviously one of the biggest was Women Life Freedom. Do you have hope for Iranian women?
- [18:53]
Bozor Meir Sharafeddin
I think, you know, we point out in the book that although Woman Life Freedom failed in its political efforts to unseat the regime, it had a lasting and huge social impact, possibly more than any other movement we've seen in Iran's modern history. And I think that shows you the strength of the Iranian women's movement and their willingness to keep fighting for what they believe are their rights.
- [19:17]
Christiane Amanpour
And they are bound to keep fighting. Coming up, the beautiful game, how football is helping dads to bear the unbearable. That report next.
- [19:26]
Yegan Torbaty
I'll be honest with you. If it wasn't football, I never would
- [19:29]
Christiane Amanpour
have made the phone call, sent the message kind of thing. Welcome back. Now just about everyone, everywhere is being swept up in World cup fever. We're seeing the unifying power of soccer or football, as it's called all over the world. The beautiful games rallying people at a time of great division. Now in this special report, we see how it's able also to build community and become a place of healing in even the most heartbreaking circumstances. Correspondent Christina McFarlane meets a father support group to help with the grief of losing a child. It's in the Forget Me Not Football club. And she starts her report by talking to one of the members.
- [20:18]
Yegan Torbaty
There is nothing more masculine than a
- [20:20]
Christiane Amanpour
group of lads sitting around crying, hugging
- [20:23]
Yegan Torbaty
each other, supporting each other. That's manly.
- [20:27]
Sean Coleman
Football has given these men a reason to be here, perhaps a way in the door without admitting vulnerability or weakness.
- [20:35]
Yegan Torbaty
I'll be honest with you, if it wasn't football, I never would have made the phone call, sent the message kind of thing. But yeah, football was our thing.
- [20:45]
Sean Coleman
Nick's son, 10 year old Jaden died after a long battle with cancer 18 months ago. What has it been like sharing your
- [20:54]
Christiane Amanpour
story with these guys, Them all hearing
- [20:56]
Yegan Torbaty
what I've been through and me hearing what they've been through, you realize you're not alone with this.
- [21:02]
Sean Coleman
That's exactly what founder Sean Coleman hoped for when he started the club last year.
- [21:06]
Yegan Torbaty
It's okay to grieve. There's no stigma. And that's what trying to break like the stigma of men's grief, men's mental health and they've lost itself. It's all stigmas that need to be broken.
- [21:18]
Sean Coleman
While we're there, the team receive a message from Premier League player and local Aaron Ramsdale. His wife Georgina miscarried on a flight home following England's 2022 World cup campaign.
- [21:29]
Yegan Torbaty
Yeah, I thought I'd give you a message and just say well done. And we're all in different situations but when things like this happen, we're all in the same boat.
- [21:43]
Sean Coleman
Support from players like Aaron is a small step towards Forget me not FC's new goal, expanding from Port Vale Football Club to other professional football clubs across the uk, Something Aaron Way is trying to spearhead while navigating his own pain. Last year Aaron and his wife Gemma suffered the tragic loss of their baby girl during labour. Here in the place where Willow should have been, precious memories spent with her are cherished.
- [22:13]
Christiane Amanpour
We haven't got Willow.
- [22:14]
Sean Coleman
We weren't able to watch her change or grow.
- [22:19]
Christiane Amanpour
The only things we have got are all those memories from the time that
- [22:24]
Annalena Baerbock
we had with her. She's our daughter. She lives in everything that we do.
- [22:29]
Sean Coleman
In the darkest months of their lives, Aaron said the club pulled him out of a spiral of gambling and depression and enabled them as a couple to try again for a baby without having
- [22:40]
Yegan Torbaty
Forget Me not and having the dads
- [22:43]
Christiane Amanpour
that are involved, especially like the likes of Sean who helped set it up, I don't actually think I'd be here in all honesty. But it's also to note that you're
- [22:53]
Yegan Torbaty
around like minded men that have gone
- [22:55]
Christiane Amanpour
through exactly the same journey.
- [22:59]
Sean Coleman
Christina McFarlane, CNN, Stoke on Trent, England.
- [23:04]
Christiane Amanpour
So sports and football of course has the power to really gather a community. And even in the United States where there were so many concerns about what this World cup might look like, there it is. Certainly this first week energized and uplifted people's spirits their and around the world. Coming up, it is World Refugee Day. I speak to actress Sepideh Moifi about how her family's escape from Iran and her work with the International Rescue Committee shaped her role in the hit series the Pit. And she joins me with the IRC's Shireen Ibrahim. That is after a break. Welcome back. Now, how about this stat? Every minute, 20 people are forced to flee their homes in search of safety from war, persecution, violence, and other crimes. It is a situation that no one would choose. And yet today, as we mark World refugee day, some 118 million people are displaced. That's one in every 70 people on this earth. And in a year of record high levels of armed conflict, the crisis is expanding. America and Israel's war has displaced over 4 million people across Iran, Lebanon, Afghanistan, and Pakistan. It's an experience that our next guest understands. She is Sipideh Moafi, who was born in a refugee camp after her family fled Iran after the 1979 Islamic Revolution. Now she's an actress best known for her role in the hit series the Pit and an ambassador for the irc. She joined me along with their regional vice president for the Middle East, Shirin Ibrahim. Sepideh and Shirin, welcome to the program.
- [24:51]
Sepideh Moafi
Thank you for having us.
- [24:53]
Christiane Amanpour
Let me start with you, Shirin. I want to get your reaction to what the EU has just legislated. The parliament there has approved the strictest ever migration law in decades this week. It apparently allows EU countries to set up deportation centers outside the EU itself. Sort of return hubs, they're calling it. Do you know what this is all about and what is your assessment of it?
- [25:21]
Shirin Ibrahim
So thank you, Christian. Obviously, we are still trying to understand the implications of these decisions. But we, as the irc, call on governments, whether they are the US or within the European Union, to make sure that they preserve access to asylum and refugee resettlement programs. And people who seek that asylum or seek that resettlement opportunity have safe and dignified pathways to do so. Because what we are seeing is that people go to great lengths and risk their own lives to get to other shores. So that is important for the IRC to make sure that asylum and refugee resettlement are safeguarded.
- [26:10]
Christiane Amanpour
So just to continue, because there are millions of refugees who need to be settled, the UNHCR Shireen says that for the first time, though, in a decade, the total number of forcibly displaced people has declined. Do you buy that? I mean, declined, you know, over the last year.
- [26:31]
Shirin Ibrahim
So I think there is room for optimism, but we also have to see the nuance of the figures. UN figures are telling us that there are 118 million forcibly displaced people globally today. You know, as we look at 2026 numbers, we can celebrate that 14 million people have returned to their homes. So displacement figures are declining. However, on the flip side of that, Christian, you also have 14 million newly displaced people just this year alone as a result of new wars and shocks. So even though we have an optimism today, this number may see an increase in the very near future if wars and climate disasters continue.
- [27:23]
Christiane Amanpour
We'll keep an eye on that. Let me turn to you, Sepide. You are now incredibly well known in the United States for many things, but on the back, especially of the Pit on hbo. But you also have been a refugee. You were apparently born in a refugee camp after your parents fled the Islamic Revolution of 1979. So talk to me about what you remember from that experience and why you decided to become a special ambassador for the irc.
- [27:50]
Sepideh Moafi
Christiane My lens on the world was forged by how I entered it. My parents were both political activists in Iran fighting for democracy. My father was actually imprisoned under the reign of the Shah. And then after the Islamic Revolution, with the rise of the Islamic Republic, as you know, repression became much more brutal. Many of my parents friends were imprisoned, executed, and yet they continued their activism until they were forced to flee. They left their home with nothing more than a suitcase and my older sister in hand and fled to Turkey, where they sought asylum and then lived across refugee camps in Germany. At the time, it was east and West Germany, and I was born in Regensburg in a refugee camp. And so I was still a baby when we came to the United States and were ultimately granted asylum. But I have lived with the stories and the journey of my parents and the pain of displacement and exile my whole life. And this has fueled my advocacy work and my work as an artist. I simply can't separate my parents story and our journey to the United states from the 118 million displaced people around the world and their stories. And so I've been a longtime admirer of the work that the International Rescue Committee does. I started by donating in high school whatever small amount I could. And then about seven years ago, they invited me to be in a minute ambassador where I help amplify the incredible work that they do to help refugees and displaced people around the world survive, recover and rebuild their lives.
- [29:35]
Christiane Amanpour
Did this experience you've just told me about was itdid it inform your role in the pit? You play in the pit in the second season. Dr. Baran Al Hashimi and before you, you know, you come to the Pit. Your story is that you worked with Doctors Without Borders in Afghanistan. So the whole humanitarian landscape, where you would have met, you know, all these people who we're talking about right now, refugees and the most vulnerable.
- [30:03]
Sepideh Moafi
Yes, absolutely. I mean, it takes a particular kind of person, character to do such selfless acts, to go to places like Gaza and Lebanon and Afghanistan, some place that my character served, and, and go to these areas where in some cases entire cities are seemingly one continuous emergency department, where resources are scarce and the need is overwhelming. And something that moved me, that I layered into this character, was that across the board, anyone who I've talked to or anybody who I've seen or read, speak when they come back from having been deployed, talks about despite the horror, despite the destruction and despite death, they would go back in a heartbeat because even in the depths of darkness, they witness these extraordinary acts of courage and solidarity and generosity. And so for me, it was so important for this character to hold the voices of her colleagues that she's left behind, to hold their practice in her own practice. And I think this detail gives a specific gravity to this character in the way world at the pit.
- [31:13]
Christiane Amanpour
And coming up, my report from the heights of the European migration crisis when I joined a refugee rescue mission in the Mediterranean. After a break. It is incredible to see with your own eyes a boat like that, not big, it's been crammed with 290 people. And of them, 21 are. Welcome back. A decade after the peak of Europe's migration crisis, thousands are still risking everything to cross the Mediterranean and indeed other seas. 2026 was the deadliest start to a year since records began, according to the un. It follows years of efforts to tighten asylum rules, strengthen border controls and crack down on smuggling networks. Just last week, a new overhaul of immigration policy came into effect. Effect across the eu as nations find themselves under pressure from far right nationalist parties. Back in 2015, I joined an Italian Navy operation on a rescue mission. Here's my report from then. It's a sunny day, so the pilots of this Navy helicopter expect it to be a busy day in the central Mediterranean, not far from the Libyan coast.
- [32:32]
Shirin Ibrahim
Coast.
- [32:33]
Christiane Amanpour
And barely 30 minutes into our flight, the pilots tell us they've spotted a boat possibly full of migrants. And there it is, miles away, steaming towards Italy. They hope the warship Sphinx takes off to rescue them now they've all been given those distinctive orange life vests. We return to the task force frigate Virginio Fazan and join the crews there preparing to assist the Seabourn rescue. Underway, the crews are dressed in masks and hazard suits in case of infectious disease. It is incredible to see with your own eyes a boat like that, not big. It's been crammed with 290 people and of them 21 are children. Now the Italian navy has offloaded them all. And now the last batch that's been unloaded by the Italian navy is ready to get on one of these warships and safety. What do you think of the Italians who saved you? It is very good.
- [33:40]
Yegan Torbaty
We are nice people, a nice country. We know that before, when you are coming. We know that.
- [33:47]
Christiane Amanpour
And then we walk over to the other side, where women and children were separated, seeking shade and sleep where they could. 25 year old jury fetches water for her travel companions and their kids. She says they all spent a long time waiting for this in cruel conditions in Libya. Were you afraid on the sea?
- [34:10]
Shirin Ibrahim
Yeah.
- [34:10]
Christiane Amanpour
Really? We are afraid, but we pray to God also. God is good.
- [34:17]
Annalena Baerbock
They are safe our lives.
- [34:19]
Christiane Amanpour
So God came in the form of the Italian Navy? Yes, I'm happy. Back on the busy bridge of the Fazan, Commander Marco Bagni directs this and other operations. And every rescue takes hours to accomplish. Even on calm waters, there are up to 1000 crew at sea all the time. Task Force Commander Admiral Rebufo has one special mission, aside from saving lives, stopping these merchants of death by keeping empty fishing boats out of the traffickers hands. You have called these boats weapons of mass destruction. What do you mean that they are? Because of course, it's quite provocative. But in terms of human losses they have been causing. Just one journey is extremely fruitful for a criminal organization. We're talking about 1. 1 million euro per journey. Really? Yes, 1 million euros per journey. Indeed. Heavily armed special forces and marines take off at top speed, soaking us, but making sure no trafficker was coming back for this wooden boat. And while they all await further orders under a new EU military mission, the human toll on young crew and even experienced naval commanders is immense. I think that Italy and Europe in the next future will do the right thing. So I'm proud of that. I can see it makes you emotional. I would say yes, because confronting yourself with people is quite heartbreaking sometimes. Cristiano Manpour, cnn, aboard the Virginio Fazan in the Mediterranean Sea. Now, when I spoke to then Italian Prime Minister Matteo Renzi about that crisis, he told me, quote, we must absolutely avoid the Mediterranean becoming a cemetery. It's a sea, not a cemetery. And yet. Yet it is still a cemetery for so many people. In the Aegean Sea, around Greece, for instance, in the English Channel that separates France from the United Kingdom. So these tragedies continue over 10 years later when we come back as celebrations take place across the United States for Juneteenth. What Bryan Stevenson told me about this unique holiday where a celebration of survival comes hand in hand with a remembrance of trauma. And finally this weekend, many Americans are celebrating Juneteenth. It commemorates when enslaved people in Texas finally learned they were free in 1865. On June 19, which was more than two years after President Abraham Lincoln had signed the Emancipation Proclamation. The activist and lawyer Bryan Stevenson explained its many complexities best, telling me how he celebrates while also remembering the enduring pain of the legacy of slavery.
- [37:40]
Yegan Torbaty
We are the heirs of, yes, a lot of that trauma and abuse and degradation, but we also are the heirs of people who learned to persevere, people who were resilient, people who found a way to resist, people who knew their humanity and their dignity despite what the law said about them. And that is something to celebrate. The strength and power of enslaved people, I feel empowers me, energizes me. And I think both of those realities can be contained within this holiday. The grief, the mourning of people who were treated horrifically, abused and denied freedom, but also the power, the capacity of people to love despite all of those hurdles. That's something to celebrate.
- [38:21]
Christiane Amanpour
And just a note, of course, Bryan Stevenson has created incredible, powerful memorials to the legacy of slavery in Alabama this year. Juneteenth comes amid an unprecedented rollback of progress. The Voting Rights act eroded, diversity initiatives designed to counter centuries of racism are being undone. And even black history faces erasure, perhaps making this historic weekend of celebration more important than ever. That is all we have time for. Don't forget, you can find all of our shows online as podcasts@cnn, cnn.com audio and on all other major platforms. I'm Christiane Amanpour in London. Thank you for watching and I'll see you again next week.
- [39:09]
Sepideh Moafi
From the descendants of history makers involved in the Louisiana Purchase to the Lewis and Clark expedition, discover the untold stories of American expansion in the CNN original series, this Land, now streaming on the CNN app.