Former Canadian Deputy PM Chrystia Freeland

Summary

Amanpour Podcast Summary – June 16, 2026

Episode Theme:
This episode explores crucial developments on the global stage at the G7 summit, focusing on new diplomatic maneuvers regarding Iran and renewed momentum for Ukraine. The heart of the show is an in-depth interview with Chrystia Freeland, former Canadian Deputy Prime Minister and current advisor to Ukraine’s government, who provides candid analysis of transatlantic relations, conflict dynamics, and Ukraine’s evolving position in global politics. The episode also addresses the rapid normalization of far-right politics in the United Kingdom, and features renowned environmental activist Erin Brockovich on the overlooked environmental costs of the AI and data center boom.

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I. The G7 Summit, Iran Deal, and Ukraine – Interview with Chrystia Freeland

Segment Start: 02:17

Key Discussion Points:

• US-Iran Peace Memorandum and Skepticism (03:00-05:32):

  • Despite President Trump’s praise for a just-announced memorandum of understanding (MOU) with Iran, there is little clarity about its content or durability.
  • Chrystia Freeland voices caution regarding this and past “50 announcements already of a peace deal,” urging skepticism until the deal is public and enforced.
  • Insight: She frames the agreement as a “remarkable show of American weakness,” referencing political analyst Ian Bremmer’s comparison to “America’s Suez.” Freeland argues that even if the deal holds, the US and its allies are left “basically where we were before the war started, probably in a weaker position.”
  • Quote: “Even with all of that, even with the uncertainty, even with the fact that this was an utterly unnecessary, utterly costly war of choice, European leaders would really like the war to end because this is causing huge volatility in the global economy.” (Chrystia Freeland, 04:41)

• Impact on Ukraine's Struggle (05:32-10:23):

  • The Iran distraction diminished focus and resources previously directed at Ukraine, allowing Russia to profit from higher oil prices and intensify attacks.
  • Freeland acknowledges the opportunity for renewed support to Ukraine, crediting both battlefield innovation and European solidarity.
  • Quote: “Ukraine right now is winning the war. It is steadily degrading Russia’s economic capacity, Russia’s military capacity...Ukraine is degrading Russian military forces more quickly than Russia can conscript soldiers. And that comes from a superior technological innovation, superior strategy, and a Ukrainian strategy that is putting human lives first.” (Chrystia Freeland, 07:19)

• Ukraine as Ally, Not Charity (09:09-10:23):

  • Discusses Ukraine’s shift in Western perceptions—from a “charity case” to a “powerful ally”—and the resulting technological partnerships (notably with Gulf states) on drone manufacturing.
  • Quote: “We’ve gone from thinking about Ukraine as the righteous victim...the Europeans are now seeing Ukraine as a powerful ally, as a shield and an arsenal that can help them defend themselves.” (Chrystia Freeland, 09:43)

• Ukraine’s Offensive Strategy and Internal Russian Pressure (11:15-13:22):

  • Freeland describes Ukraine’s dual focus: military “drone wall” at the front and deep strikes inside Russia targeting economic and military assets.
  • These deep strikes disrupt life for affluent Russians, making the war’s costs tangible even for elites.
  • Quote: “In the early years of the war, it was quite possible, if you lived in Moscow or St. Petersburg, not to really feel your country is at war. These deep strikes are changing that situation.” (Chrystia Freeland, 12:00)

• Restoring Western Alliances – “Unreliable Boyfriend” (13:22-16:06):

  • Freeland discusses her new book and the crisis of trust between the US and its allies.
  • She advises a “three-pronged strategy:” find common ground, engage beyond the US presidency (“the donut strategy”), and be firm with bullies.
  • Quote: “When you’re dealing with a bully, you have to remember that if you get hit, you have to hit back. Otherwise, the pummeling continues.” (Chrystia Freeland, 15:40)

II. Britain’s Shift to the Far Right and Political Turmoil

Segment Start: 17:59

Key Discussion Points:

• Labour’s Crisis and Far-Right Surge (18:59-22:49):

  • Stephanie Flanders (Bloomberg) discusses the critical Makerfield by-election, Labour’s popularity plunge, and Andy Burnham’s potential leadership challenge.
  • The UK faces “unprecedented” fragmentation with several parties polling strongly, raising questions about legitimacy and stability under the current system.

• Voter Disillusionment and Realignment (23:31-26:58):

  • Voters express fatigue with both major parties, leading to gains by Reform (right) and Green (left).
  • Flanders notes, “the center has not held” and predicts a “very irascible electorate who just changed their minds about people. The moment that they don’t deliver, it’s on to the next thing.” (Stephanie Flanders, 26:24)

• Normalization of the Far Right (27:17-30:14):

  • Policies and rhetoric previously outside the Overton Window (e.g., remigration, death penalty) are now mainstream.
  • Nigel Farage and the Reform Party gain popularity despite their association with unpopular policies (Trump, Brexit).

Notable Moment:

• Voter Quote (24:01):
  “I’m 78 years of age next month. All my voting life, there’s only been two parties who have run this country, Labour and Conservatives. Look around you, it’s a mess…It’s time for a change.”

III. Special Report: Far-Right Extremism in the UK

Segment Start: 31:24

Key Discussion Points:

• Activist and Analyst Perspectives:

  • Correspondent Jomana Karachi attends far-right rallies and interviews Joe Mulholl, an expert who infiltrated such groups.
  • The far right capitalizes on economic grievances and a sense of political neglect, shifting blame to immigrants and minorities.
  • US influence is powerful; “If it can happen there, it can happen here.” (Joe Mulholl, 36:39)

• From Fringe to Potential Power (36:55-37:17):

  • “The far right is no longer something that sits on the very margins of our politics in Britain…It is increasingly something that actually has the real chance of taking power in Britain.” (Joe Mulholl, 37:04)

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IV. Environmental Impact of AI Data Centers – Erin Brockovich

Segment Start: 38:44

Key Discussion Points:

• Scale of the Problem:

  • US data centers use up to 5 million gallons of water daily; noise pollution and resource strain are widespread.
  • Brockovich’s crowdsourced map logs over 10,000 community complaints.

• Community Exclusion and Secrecy:

  • Local residents are often kept out of the permitting process.
  • “I have clearly learned for 30 years that communities handle the truth. They like to have a conversation, they like to know what’s going on. But when something’s done in secret or they’re lied to, it becomes a different game.” (Erin Brockovich, 40:15)

• Economic Trade-offs:

  • Tax revenue from data centers may not benefit residents proportionally, who bear costs via surging utility bills, water scarcity, and declining health.

• Health and Environmental Harms:

  • Reports of water contamination, reduced pressure, headaches, respiratory illness, livestock disruptions.
  • One report: “Their WI fi is going down. The noise is deafening. And that comes at a great cost.” (Erin Brockovich, 44:14)

• Regulatory Needs:

  • Calls for federal, state, and local governments to conduct transparent, upfront environmental reviews before expansion.
  • “We do the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result, and we put the cart before the horse.” (Erin Brockovich, 53:15)

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• Chrystia Freeland:

  • “Until we absolutely see what is in the deal, until we see a sustainable peace, we should not assume that everything is over.” (03:49)
  • “Ukraine right now is winning the war.” (07:19)
  • “Europeans are now seeing Ukraine as a powerful ally, as a shield and an arsenal.” (09:43)
  • “When you’re dealing with a bully...if you get hit, you have to hit back. Otherwise the pummeling continues.” (15:40)

• Stephanie Flanders:

  • “You have someone who has been waiting in the wings as a potential replacement for Sakir Starmer, who has been remarkably unpopular…” (18:59)
  • “We have something unprecedented…Five parties who are, you know, on double digits…” (25:18)
  • “The center has not held in the UK or in Europe, despite having a very different political system.” (26:31)

• Joe Mulholl:

  • “What the far right are really good at is going to those people and…they say, you’re right to be angry, and they give them a scapegoat…” (33:09)
  • “When you’ve got Donald Trump in the White House…they can then point…if it can happen there, it can happen here.” (36:39)
  • “The far right is no longer something that sits on the very margins…It is increasingly something that actually has the real chance of taking power in Britain.” (37:04)

• Erin Brockovich:

  • “It’s a Hinckley in multiple counties and cities in every single state. The fact that all of it was just in secret is kind of shocking.” (42:50)
  • “They’re very concerned that there was no environmental impact studies done...that is what really, I think began this huge conversation—secrecy.” (43:41)
  • “They do appreciate that. They do understand that. But it’s coming at a cost to them.” (44:07)
  • “This is everything on the table that matters. Our water, our electricity, our land, our food, our wildlife, our animals, and our health.” (53:38)

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Conclusion

This episode of Amanpour offers a nuanced look at pivotal international negotiations, the shifting fortunes of conflict and power in Ukraine, the brewing storm of far-right populism in the UK, and the under-appreciated environmental fallout of rapid AI expansion. Chrystia Freeland’s strategic insights, on-the-ground reporting from British politics, and Erin Brockovich’s grassroots activism coalesce into a vital overview of the world’s fractures and the forces shaping our near future.

Transcript

[Bianna Golodriga]

Hello, everyone, and welcome to Amanpour. Here's what's coming up.

[Erin Brockovich]

We have our deal done with Iran and should be successful as G7 leaders

[Bianna Golodriga]

look to President Trump for clarity on Iran. Volodymyr Zelenskyy works to keep Ukraine on the agenda. I speak to Canada's former Deputy Prime Minister Chrystia Freeland, now an advisor to the Kyiv government.

[Jomana Karachi]

And are you ready for the Battle of Brim?

[Bianna Golodriga]

In Britain, the far right moves to the mainstream amidst a leadership crisis. For Prime Minister Keir Starmer, we ask, where is the country headed?

[Erin Brockovich]

Then their entire resources and environment feels under assault and is in jeopardy.

[Bianna Golodriga]

Corey Srinivasan speaks with environmental crusader Erin Brockovich, who's now taking on AI data centers. Welcome to the program, everyone. I'm Bianna Golodriga in New York, sitting in for Christiana Manpour today in the Alpine resorts town of Evian. World leaders meeting for the G7 summit have a lot to talk about. First up, they're looking for more details on the US Peace agreement with Iran, which, according to President Trump, says Tehran will never have a nuclear weapon and that the Strait of Hormuz will be fully opened by Friday. But until the document is public, only the negotiators know the actual terms. Also in Avian, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is looking to jumpstart peace talks with Russia.

[Erin Brockovich]

Of course, Europe wants negotiations with coordination with the United States, but we don't know all the tracks between us. It doesn't matter. We need useful tricks to stop Putin now. I think President Trump can do it, and Europe also will do it on the battlefield.

[Bianna Golodriga]

Kyiv claims that it recaptured more territory last month than it lost amid signs that Russia is losing more troops than it can recruit to shore up its forces. But on the home front, Ukraine's cities are weathering devastating attacks. Kyiv's historic Dormition Cathedral was struck Monday, an attack President Zelensky calls a crime against Christian culture. As Canada's former Deputy Prime Minister, Christja Freeland is intimately familiar with what happens behind the scenes at meetings like the G7. Since January, she served as an economic adviser to President Zelensky, and she joins us now from London. Christia, welcome to the program. Can you hear me?

[Chrystia Freeland]

I can. Great to be with you.

[Bianna Golodriga]

Okay. It's great to have you on. Let's start with news of this memorandum of understanding that's been reached between the United States and Iran. President Trump has been lauding this mou, though we don't know much about what's in it. Other than it's a page and a half, according to the Vice President. We've heard a number of European leaders begin this G7 summit by congratulating the President on coming to terms with Iran. It is said to be finalized on Friday. As I said, though, nobody has seen the text. There's a lot of ambiguities here and a lot of conflicting reporting from both the United States and Iran. Where are you in terms of your comfort right now with this deal?

[Chrystia Freeland]

I absolutely share your caution. I think someone counted that there had been 50 announcements already of a peace deal. So we have to be really, really careful and recognize that until we absolutely see what is in the deal, until we see a sustainable peace, we should not assume that everything is over. Having said that, I think we can already draw two conclusions. The first one is this has been a remarkable show of American weakness. I think Ian Bremmer was one of the first people to call it America's Suez. That was the moment when the European great powers were shown to no longer be able to exercise authority and in the world. And I wouldn't go that far with the United States, but this is really a remarkable own goal. Even if the deal holds, we're basically where we were before the war started, probably in a weaker position. So I think that's the first conclusion. It's a really important one. I think the second conclusion is, even with all of that, even with the uncertainty, even with the fact that this was an utterly unnecessary, utterly costly war of choice, European leaders would really like the war to end because this is causing huge volatility in the global economy. It's causing huge economic problems for Europe. So if you know they're going to be encouraging the Americans there to get the deal done.

[Bianna Golodriga]

Yeah. You referenced Ian Bremmer. Karim Sajapur, who is one of the top experts in this field, has called this a memorandum of misunderstanding understanding at this point. But let's talk about the potential opening here for putting focus back on the war in Ukraine. Because there had been so many resources, so much attention, so much capital that had been allocated toward the war in Iran that President Zelensky and others have said that this is coming at the expense of what's happening in Ukraine and it is giving Russia more opportunity not only to enrich itself with the spike in oil prices, but also to continue unleashing devastating attacks on civilians in Ukraine. Do you think that now this is the opening that President Zelenskyy had been hoping for? Even if this is a short 60 day pause, however long this MOU is to put direction back where President Zelenskyy would like it to be. And that is on the war in.

[Chrystia Freeland]

Well, you know, I think everyone in Ukraine and everyone in the world would like the war to end. Everyone would like a just peace. I think what's really important that has happened really since the beginning of the year is the Ukrainians have not been sitting on their hands. They have been extremely effective. They are now manufacturing not only their own drones, but their own mid and deep strike missiles. And, you know, I think we all remember that awful, degrading scene in the White House when President Zelensky was insulted by President Trump. And one of the insults was, you have to give up. You don't have any cards. I think what we've seen over the past few months is Ukraine has a lot of cards. Ukraine right now is winning the war. It is steadily degrading Russia's economic capacity, Russia's military capacity. When Zelenskyy announces the strikes in Ukrainian, he calls it our self sanction program. And we are seeing, as you mentioned, that Ukraine today is now retaking some territory. And crucially, Ukraine is degrading Russian military forces more quickly than Russia can conscript soldiers. And that comes from a superior technological innovation, superior strategy, and a Ukrainian strategy that is putting human lives first. So I think the Ukrainian. I think that there is a real opportunity right now, and that opportunity is created first and foremost by Ukrainian prowess on the battlefield. And I would give the Europeans a lot of credit, too. They have stood by Ukraine. They have provided financial support to Ukraine. They're providing military support to Ukraine, too. So, you know, we're seeing something that a lot of people thought was not possible, which is Ukraine and Europe really standing up to Putin.

[Jomana Karachi]

Yeah.

[Bianna Golodriga]

And through its innovation in drone technology, Ukraine has proven that it is literally redefining the future of warfare. But they also are in desperate need of continued air defense systems. And that, I know, came up in conversation as recently as today, I believe, between President Zelensky and President Trump. Do you know if any inroads on that front were made?

[Chrystia Freeland]

I can't say, but you're absolutely right. One of the really unfortunate consequences of the war of choice in Iran is it means that there are fewer of those air defense systems available. And that does make it easier for Putin to continue to strike you Ukrainian civilian targets. And that is really, you know, these are war crimes that are being committed, and we have to be clear about that. I would also say, you know, a strategic shift that I am seeing. People are really recognizing is we've gone from thinking about Ukraine as the righteous victim, as sort of a charity case we need to support. And certainly the Europeans are now seeing Ukraine as a powerful ally, as a shield and an arsenal that can help them defend themselves. I think you've seen the Gulf states understand that as well. And you're now seeing deals being done between the Gulf states and Ukraine when it comes particularly to drone technology. So, you know, the balance of power is really, really shifting, and it's shifting fast.

[Bianna Golodriga]

One of the reasons President Zelensky brought you in was to attract investment and rebuild the future of this country. Once the war, whenever it comes to an end, it is now longer, I believe, as of last week, than World War I in terms of duration. Yet it is notable that Ukraine's, at least for the moment, sharpest economic weapon, appears to be making the war quite expensive for Vladimir Putin to sustain. You've seen day after day, constant torching of Russia's refineries. There appears to be a fuel blockade around Crimea right now, his golden jewel. Is there any indication that these types of offensives will give Kyiv the leverage to finally bring Putin to the negotiating table in earnest?

[Chrystia Freeland]

I think there is. I mean, I think what we're seeing is a sort of two pronged attack from Ukraine. One is specifically on the battlefield. This is building the Ukrainian drone wall. This is really sophisticated efforts at the line of contact. And then the second effort is deep strikes within Russia to weaken Russia's economic capacity, to make it harder for Russia to keep fighting the war, and also to make regular Russian people aware that the war is happening. In the early years of the war, it was quite possible, if you lived in Moscow or St. Petersburg, not to really feel your country is at war. These deep strikes are changing that situation. And, you know, if you look at, say, telegram, at what Russian military bloggers are saying, there is starting to be some concern and criticism of how the war is being conducted. There is starting to be a realization by, I'm not going to say regular Russian people, more your affluent middle class professionals in Moscow and St. Petersburg, that this is really costly and it's small things like the Internet is being disrupted. Well, that means that people are seeing a real impact in their lives. You know, the airports are not necessarily safe. People are getting scared to travel. Even the attacks that you mentioned on Crimea, Crimea was being touted at the beginning of the war as this wonderful holiday destination. And traditionally it was that in the Soviet Union. Well, now people are scared to travel there. So. So I do think that the Ukrainian strikes are not only being effective on the front lines, but they're starting to change the calculus inside Russia. And, you know, this is a terrible war. Far too many people are dying. It would be great for Ukraine and for the world if the war could end sooner rather than later.

[Bianna Golodriga]

Let's talk about, in our final moments, your new book, which is titled Unreliable Boyfriend. I think I remember hearing you used that phrase on Bill Maher show. Was it a couple of years ago you call it an unreliable boyfriend? We heard Prime Minister Carney take it a step even further, describing the relationship as ruptured. You actually negotiated the NAFTA rewrite. I would say a renegotiation under President Trump's first term. When you're advising President Zelensky, would you say that the relationship between the west and, well, the Western countries outside of the United States and the US Are ruptured, or do you think there are still opportunities to make specific deals like you were able to?

[Chrystia Freeland]

You know, I think that that is the single most important question in the world today. When I was first starting as a journalist in the early 90s, we were focused on emerging markets and thinking about how can we help these countries with rule of law? How can we help them fight corruption? How can we help them be functional democracies? And the country where we need to ask those questions right now, tragically, is the United States. And one of the big questions that the United States needs to ask itself is, does it want allies? Does it want partners in the world? I think that the rest of the world, what the rest of the world needs to do is have a sort of three pronged strategy. I think you do find the areas where you have common ground and collaborate on those. I think you also apply what during the NAFTA negotiations, we called the donut strategy. And that meant recognizing that the president was not the only player in the United States. America is a huge country. I think Americans are wonderful people, and we worked really hard as Canadians to take our story to Americans, regular Americans, and to say, guys, do you really want to have a fight with Canada? I think all of us need to be doing that. But then the final thing is I do think we have to be strong. I think we should not be escalating, but we should not capitulate. When you're dealing with a bully, you have to remember that if you get hit, you have to hit back. Otherwise the pummeling continues. So that's how I think we need to deal with this administration right now.

[Bianna Golodriga]

Christy Friedland, it's great to have you on. Thank you so much for your perspective. Really appreciate it. Great to be with you and do stay with cnn. We'll be right back after the break.

[Derek Van Dam]

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[Adi Cornish]

I'm Adi Cornish.

[Ari Shapiro]

I'm Ari Shapiro. And it's engagement party. It's engagement party and we get to talk about what we're obsessed with, what we're engaged with, what we need to process with a friend. I went to see Obsession last night because I had to know what the buzz was about. I was the oldest person in the theater by about 20 years, but it was packed on a Monday at 5:30pm Amazing. Something crazy is going on here.

[Adi Cornish]

Well, not so crazy. I mean, I feel like I've been doing the story about the waves of horror in cinema for the last couple of years. And I think the reason why I wanted to talk about it with you is because I was trying to figure out, well, what's different between this moment and something like the mumble corps of the 2010s, right, where you had films like Puffy Chair and we were all doing stories that were like people are doing movies on their own. It's called Bumble Corps, you know, and we would like talk about how people were doing this like DIY film stuff.

[Ari Shapiro]

Follow Engagement Party wherever you get your podcasts.

[Bianna Golodriga]

Next to Britain where a special by election on Thursday could determine the fate of the country. Greater Manchester's Mayor Andy Burnham is campaigning to win a seat in Parliament and hoping from there to challenge Prime Minister Keir Starmer for the top job. But the northern constituency of Makerfield typifies Labour's challenge with not one far right party in the race, but two, Reform and Restore Britain. It's a big moment for the country which has seen fraught politics over the last 10 years with six, six different prime ministers. Stephanie Flanders is head of the economics and politics at Bloomberg News. She joins me now from London to discuss why this by election is so, so important for Britain. Stephanie, welcome to the program. So Makerfield is one seat out of 650, a Labor stronghold at that. And yet it's being called the most consequential by election in a century. Why does this one constituency carry so much weight?

[Stephanie Flanders]

So you have someone who has been waiting in the wings as a potential replacement for Sakir Starmer, who has been remarkably unpopular and what many would say, ineffective, given that he came in a couple of years ago after this long period of Conservative rule with a very large majority in Parliament and seemingly a mandate from the people. But he has been sort of consistently, in fact even very soon after being elected, had lost popularity, particularly to reform. You mentioned one of the right wing populist challenging parties and Andy Burnham is someone who actually had worked in the Blair has worked in numerous Labour administrations, is not necessarily a kind of edgy new face in British politics. But he'd done something interesting. He'd gone to be a mayor in Manchester in a country we're relatively new to having elected mayors who become political leaders in their own right. That's obviously very common in the US and in many places around the world. It's only a relatively recent thing in the UK but in Manchester he inherited or came into a situation where there had been a very strong administration that had actually been doing some great things. He built on that and he has this story he can tell about effective government, which seems like a real contrast with what's been going on in Whitehall. So he's now through a very complicated process. He's ended up quitting his job or if he running for this for a member of Parliament in this seat. If he wins the seat, he will quit his job as mayor of Manchester and he'll be sitting there very obviously in Parliament and very much expected to challenge the Prime Minister for the top job. So that's the very odd way in which you have a very small number of people in the north of England potentially electing the next Prime Minister of

[Bianna Golodriga]

the UK And Andy Barnum says a vote for him is a vote to change Labour. Here's what else he said.

[Jomana Karachi]

I know my own party needs to change. We need to be better than we've been. We've not been. And I want to leave people in no doubt today. A vote for me in this by election campaign is a vote to change Labor.

[Bianna Golodriga]

But Stephanie, some of his own allies say that his policy program is still a work in progress. So is this substantive change or is it literally just a change of face?

[Stephanie Flanders]

You know, it's one of those difficult things because the fact that he's having to speak to the people in this particular constituency at the Same time as potentially speaking to a much bigger audience as the potential future Prime Minister means, it's very hard for him to sound too radical.

[Hari Sreenivasan]

Right.

[Stephanie Flanders]

He has to say, I'm going to be very different from Keir Starmer. I know you don't like him, but still vote Labour, vote for his party, just don't vote for him, vote for me and then I will change everything. But at the same time, as he says, tries to be exciting to those, to those electors in that one seat, he has to be reassuring to the international markets on whom the UK is extremely dependent. We have a high budget deficit and a lot of our debt, like the us, in fact, is owned by foreign investors who are often, in many cases currently requiring a very high rate of interest to park their money in the uk. So he can't do anything to spook them because he knows that the more markets are spooked, the more expensive that debt is going to be, the less room for maneuver he would have as an incoming Prime Minister. But as you say, he has to kind of sound radical. So many people have said it's impossible to square that circle.

[Jomana Karachi]

Yeah.

[Bianna Golodriga]

And Keir Starmer appears quite frustrated by all of this and the attention now on Andy Burnham, to say the least. He continues to remind the press and everyone that will listen that he want a mandate and that he has a job to finish. And yet we see so many people who are now disillusioned with him, members of his own cabinet leaving. And in the by elections in May, it became pretty clear that traditional parties in the UK are facing a popularity crisis. We saw reform in greens make the greatest gains and we're seeing that trend around the world. The polar extremes on either ends really gaining traction. Here's how one voter in Makerfield put it. Let's listen.

[Voter in Makerfield]

I will be voting this time for reform and very good reason. I'm 78 years of age next month. All my voting life, there's only been two parties who have run this country, Labour and Conservatives. Look around you, it's a mess. Every time one party gets in, they spend two years or three years criticizing what the last party left and what a mess it was in, you know, and they're as bad as each other. It's time for a change.

[Bianna Golodriga]

So is this a protest vote or one of permanent realignment? And how many voters does that one that we just heard from speak for?

[Stephanie Flanders]

I mean, it's interesting. That quote actually does capture what has happened in the last two years. As I said, you had Labour Party come in. It felt like, you know, finally, after 14 years of conservatives in office and then the poor performance of the Labour Party, many Conservative politicians would say that's been bad for them as well because it has suggested that these two main parties, neither of them can deliver and then people are then looking for people on the extremes. I mean, you haven't mentioned it because it's not such a feature of the matter constituency. But in many parts of the uk, Labour is also battling with the Green Party which has now got a very charismatic leader, a very different kind of leader who is taking the Green Party well away from just environmental issues into a very kind of far left positions on many things. So we have something unprecedented in my lifetime in the uk, Five parties who are, you know, on double digits, high double digits or even, you know, 20 or 30% in the polls or what that. What will happen when you have an election based on a first past the post system is really going to be a very interesting thing to watch because we've never had that situation where, you know, you could have someone, you could have a government that was elected on a very small percentage of the vote because they'd just been slightly more in enough constituencies to give them a majority. That is not a recipe for stable. Our political system was not designed for that kind of fragmentation of politics.

[Bianna Golodriga]

And again, this is indicative of what's happening in other countries too. It's not just isolated to the United Kingdom. How much weight does the theory that the traditional parties have really lost the ability to tell voters what they stand for? How much, how much does that weight carry?

[Stephanie Flanders]

You know, I think it's interesting because for some who didn't particularly want Britain to leave the European Union, there was a feeling, well, at least, you know, that sort of populist experiment which is now widely felt to have not, not succeeded, has kind of inoculated the UK against some of the populism that you've seen on the continent. And of course that you have, you saw with the election of Donald Trump. But that hasn't turned out to be the case. I think you've just ended up seeing a much more irascible electorate who just changed their minds about people. The moment that they don't deliver, it's on to the next thing. And I think that's what's most corrosive. You have the centrist part, the center has not held in the UK or in Europe, despite having a very different political system. But I don't, it's going to be very hard for any parliament or any politician to really break through and to show voters that they can deliver in this environment where they're given so little space to do it.

[Bianna Golodriga]

Reform is now being outflanked on its right by Restore Britain and has sent Zia Yousef to Washington to court maga. What does it tell us that the contest in the United Kingdom right now in politics there is increasingly focused on the right?

[Stephanie Flanders]

I think there's a normalization of quite far right discussion and talking points, and people talk about the Overton Window, that sort of window of what's an acceptable range of conversation in mainstream politics or mainstream debate. And it's shifted in the us and for sure it has shifted almost as dramatically in the uk, in some cases even more dramatically, because you have now this Rupert Lowe, who is, you know, a significant politician in his own right, in fact has more followers now on X than any other politician in Parliament. And he is aligning himself with quite far right, indeed, Nazi sympathizing people, and has also talked about remigration, which I have to say is not something that has been part of the UK debate in the past. But it again speaks to some of the things that you saw in the Brexit vote, which is people who felt that they weren't being reflected in the body politic, that the politics was not for them. And I think many people did feel left out. Another thing that's come up, which is much more well known and established in the US is the support for capital punishment for the death penalty. That's just not been on the political agenda for 50 years in the UK, and yet it's something that these leaders are bringing back, and it's something that a large proportion of the population has always supported throughout these 50 years, and they have not felt reflected in political debate. So the fringes are having their say and they're getting bigger.

[Bianna Golodriga]

And it's one thing to campaign as a fringe party. If Reform actually won power, what would its policies, its governing policies look like?

[Stephanie Flanders]

You know, the interesting thing, and I guess what you would hear from some of the mainstream politicians on this is wait until you have a serious campaign, because, you know, we haven't mentioned the irony of Reform's popularity. The most unpopular things in the US UK at the moment, apart from the Prime Minister, would be Donald Trump, really not a popular figure. And Brexit is considered to have been a failure. And yet one person who's most associated with both of those two things in the uk, I mean, until recently was very close to Donald Trump, was also the single person who did most to achieve that positive vote for leaving the eu Is Nigel Farage the leader of the Reform Party? So you have even someone who's got a proven record of being associated with things that are now very unpopular is now still the sort of exciting person to turn to. But when he's actually asked what his policies are, at least a lot of people are wondering, will the voters realize that he doesn't have a popular mandate or at least, you know, effective policy ideas? We'll see. I mean, he's a very effective politician and he does have a theory of the case. It's just very different from what the mainstream politicians have had over the years.

[Bianna Golodriga]

Again, he has a lot more leeway campaigning on a lot of these policies than actually governing on them. That's quite, quite a different challenge and quite a different responsibility. Stephanie Flanders, we'll have to leave it there. Sorry there's a delay. Appreciate the time. Thank you. Well, now, as we've been discussing, Britain's tumultuous political environment is seeing the country tilt to the right. It's a trend that's been snowballing since the Brexit referendum in 2016. Today actually marks exactly 10 years since the Labor MP Joe Kirks was murdered. Joe Cox was murdered by a far right extremist who was heard shouting britain first as he attacked her. Now, her sister, who took over Cox's former parliamentary seat, is warning that political hatred and division are worse now than they were back then. Correspondent Jomana Karachi has been investigating the growing popularity of far right politics in the UK and brings us this report.

[Joe Mulholl]

There is a magma chamber of anger sat underneath British society.

[Derek Van Dam]

Won't we

[Jomana Karachi]

Britain's been shifting to the right. I've spent the past few months trying to understand what's happening in this country.

No one speak to the media here

attending far right protests, including Unite the Kingdom, one of the biggest far right rallies ever on the streets of the UK where tens of thousands responded to the call of this man. Anti Islam activist Tommy Robinson, a conviction convicted criminal turned anti establishment figure.

Are you ready for the Battle of Brian?

But it's not just on the streets and it's not just the extreme right that's on the up. The populist right wing party Reform uk, led by longtime Trump ally Nigel Farage, made massive gains in local elections in May. This rightward shift isn't one single movement. The different groups represent different shades of right wing politics, but they all seem to be feeding off of a divided Britain. At the heart of those divisions is the issue of migration. Just last Week, a horrific attack by a Sudanese man on the streets of Belfast almost immediately turned into the latest I told you so moment for the

[Stephanie Flanders]

far right,

[Jomana Karachi]

transforming a local tragedy into a national rallying cry. Powerful allies amplifying the message and fanning the flames of hate.

[Joe Mulholl]

People in Britain are angry.

[Jomana Karachi]

Joe Mulholl infiltrated far right groups undercover here in the UK and in the US. He's one of the UK's top experts on these movements.

[Joe Mulholl]

You know, if you look at the way that people's lives have been, you know, lack of jobs, houses, schools, hospitals, stagnated wages, living standards going down or stagnating for years and years, and they feel that mainstream political parties have not met their material needs. What the far right are really good at is going to those people and they turn up and they say, you're right to be angry, and they give them a scapegoat and they say it's because someone has come to this country and taken it from you. They're really good at redirecting people's anger from where it should be directed.

[Jomana Karachi]

I've seen exactly what Joe's talking about. There have been hundreds of protests across the country over the past year. According to ACT activists tracking far right movements, it's mostly been about migration and how consecutive governments have dealt with this issue. And with the center left Labour Party back in power for the first time in two decades, the far right senses conditions are ripe for a resurgence. It's in tight knit communities like this one in the sleepy market town of Faversham outside London, where we saw it all out late last year, walking through town with a protest organized by a far right activist. You see those divisions and feel the anger.

Don't touch me.

Shame on you.

Shame on me.

[Stephanie Flanders]

You know you die

[Dr. Sanjay Gupta]

right now.

[Jomana Karachi]

They're marching towards this facility where unaccompanied minors, asylum seekers have been housed.

[Bianna Golodriga]

In this town.

[Jomana Karachi]

They're a loud crowd, but it's clear they're more noise than numbers. And you do see locals coming out to confront them. The main event kicks off with a rambling mix of racist rhetoric, fear mongering and white supremacy conspiracy theories.

They're teaching about Muhammad and Allah. We will not tolerate our children to be taught about LBGTQ and what pronouns, a belief, what they can identify as. We will not tolerate that around here. Keep up the pressure and one day you will be victorious.

At this one tiny town's protest, we find one of the leaders of the UK's extreme right.

Our country's been taken over by mass immigration. We're fed up. This is not the future that our grandparents and great grandparents fought four and two world wars. They didn't fight for this to be done to our country. We want our country to be like it was before this immigration invasion was foisted on us. Yes. You mentioned far right, neo Nazi, all that a minute ago. As if that kind of stuff that doesn't hold any power anymore. You must have learned this with Trump's victory. No one cares if they're called a racist anymore. Those terms are just used to silence people.

The re election of Donald Trump is not only an inspiration for this one extreme right figure. At every far right event I've been to, it is a constant theme. Trump's make America great again has come to the uk.

[Bianna Golodriga]

This is mega.

[Jomana Karachi]

Make England great again. He's the man.

[Chrystia Freeland]

Trump is a man.

[Jomana Karachi]

I have so much respect for a President Trump. He is saving not just America, he is saving the west.

And in saving the world, you are wearing this because.

Because I'm a Donald fan.

[Chrystia Freeland]

What is it that's going on?

[Jomana Karachi]

How much of this is, is really influence from the U.S. there's no question

[Joe Mulholl]

there's a huge influence. When the far right is small, little fringe political parties. That sounds fanciful. When you've got Donald Trump in the White House, the most powerful man in the world, they can then point someone and say, look, it's happened there. If it can happen there, it can happen here.

[Jomana Karachi]

Are we headed into the direction where the far right is turning into a significant political force in Britain?

[Joe Mulholl]

I think there's no doubt about it. Right. The far right is no longer something that sits on the very margins of our politics in Britain, an annoyance to the right. It is increasingly something that actually has the real chance of taking power in Britain.

[Jomana Karachi]

The once fringe voices seem to be moving into the mainstream. It's a small but vocal minority that's threatening to change the face of Britain. Now they believe their moment has arrived. Jomana Karachi, CNN London.

[Bianna Golodriga]

We'll be right back after this short.

[Dr. Sanjay Gupta]

I'm Dr. Sanjay Gupta, host of the Chasing Life podcast. We're talking to Dr. Alexander Moscop. He's author of the book called the End of Migraines, and he's the founder and director of the New York Headache Center. He's going to tell us why headaches hurt, what's really happening in your head and what you can do about it. What is the first thing you sort of recommend then in terms of lifestyle? So sleep deprivation is number one and people are busy not getting enough sleep that's probably part of the reason headaches have gone up. Just because we're getting less and less sleep. You're right. Diet is a very important factor as well. Lowering your carbs can definitely help. Three out of four migraine sufferers suffer from reactive hypoglycemia, which means you eat something sweet or carbs. Sugar goes up and then plummets. Listen to Chasing Life streaming now wherever you get your podcasts.

[Bianna Golodriga]

Now. 5 million gallons. That's how much water a large data center in the US can use on an average day. That's shocking statistic according to the non partisan Environmental and Energy Study Institute. This is all because of the need to cool down servers, raising concerns about the huge environmental impact of running these centers. Our next guest is calling for more transparency on the impact to neighboring communities, from persistent noise pollution to dwindling water supplies. Renowned environmental activist Erin Brockovich joins Hari Sreenivasan to discuss her latest campaign.

[Hari Sreenivasan]

Bianna, thanks. Erin Brockovich, thanks so much for joining us. You know, most people watching this will have heard your name probably from a movie where one Julia Roberts played you for a very famous lawsuit that came against Pacific Gas and Electric. And this was a settlement because you really were fighting on behalf of people who had their drinking water contaminated. But now what's interesting is that you are advocating on behalf of people who are affected by data centers in their community. You've built this amazing crowdsourced map around the country. Your site crashed a couple of times. You've got what now 5,000 reports from 49 states.

[Erin Brockovich]

So it's over 10,000 submissions. And each submission that comes in I hand read and then that gets moved to another team member who hand reads and vets again, zip code, location, all of that kind of information. And then it goes to Excel and it's put onto the Google Maps. And so what was very interesting is quickly that I was learning while it was across the country, everybody had the exact same concern. First and foremost, they had no idea what was going on. They weren't informed. If they did show up, they couldn't speak. They were asked to leave. And so that became a real place for these people to start becoming concerned about what was happening. I have clearly learned for 30 years that communities handle the truth. They like to have a conversation, they like to know what's going on. But when something's done in secret or they're lied to, it becomes a different game. So very quickly, that was my first concern that I could see across the board. That was happening for everybody.

[Hari Sreenivasan]

What are the kinds of problems that people are writing to you about, I mean, somebody at the sort of county commissioner's office, so to speak, or whoever does the permitting for these things, whether it's a city or a state government, somebody is in a conversation with a hyperscaler data center company or one of the big social media companies that uses these.

[Ari Shapiro]

Right.

[Hari Sreenivasan]

Or the AI companies. What is the deal? What are the types of deals that are being done?

[Erin Brockovich]

Well, in the beginning, and again as this gets bigger, more information comes in, we start learning more about what's happening. For many of them, it was just blanket. They had no idea. Just all of a sudden this construction was starting in their backyard. So when they would go, city councils, they were told it wasn't on the meeting, it wasn't scheduled, they weren't notified, they didn't have an opportunity to show up, and that this was done under non disclosures agreements. So these companies just came in and made deals. What we're seeing now, as people are knowing more getting into city council, what happened a lot of times, zoning was changed to permit to allow for the larger data centers to come in. So they will tell you. And their verbiage to me is secrecy, cover ups, lies, denied, what they feel was their right to show up to a meeting and have a say about what was happening in their backyard. So it was like. And nothing was done with any notice. They're very concerned that there was no environmental impact studies done. They were concerned, are there any regulations, the water, all of that. And so that is what really, I think began this huge conversation was secrecy. And it, it wasn't one town. I think that's what's really surprising me. You know, Hinckley was one town, one aquifer, one chemical. This is a Hinckley in multiple counties and cities in every single state. And the fact that all of it was just in secret is kind of shocking.

[Hari Sreenivasan]

There was a recent piece in the Atlantic talking about Loudoun County, Virginia, which is a home for lots and lots of different data centers. And look, the county commissioners and people there, the leaders there say, look, we have, we're projecting $1.3 billion in revenue from the property taxes, from the taxes from these places. You know, the county has used that money to build 32 schools, 16 fire stations. They've cut, cut property taxes for homeowners by a third, right? So there's this enormous pile of money that people see and I don't know, like, so when you get these emails from people, are they taking those sort of costs and benefits into Consideration.

[Erin Brockovich]

Yes, they are. And they understand that this could be a benefit to the county, but it doesn't always spill over into the county. We've watched this happen over and over again. You know, the city council gets money, but they don't put it towards something that the community feels that they need goes to something else or it's misappropriated or mis budget. We've seen that go on forever. So they are thoughtful of that. But here's what I think is so important. They were left out of every equation to have a seat at the table and give us a boundary. How about we start there and not put them in our literally backyard? They're right there. Give us a space, what, 25 miles, 30 miles. But have a conversation. So they do appreciate that. They do understand that. But it's coming at a cost to them. Where I'm now seeing utility bills double tripling, water bills double tripling. They're extraordinarily concerned for those that are on well water. They're losing their water pressure. They're having brownouts, they're having flickering. Their WI fi is going down. The noise is deafening. And that comes at a great cost.

[Hari Sreenivasan]

Let's talk a little bit about each of these separate costs that people are complaining to you about and pointing out to you. Let's start with electricity. The Lawrence Berkeley National Lab estimated that US data centers are using about 4% of all the energy that's being generated in the country. What does that number mean? That's really abstract. But when you hear from people on the ground, what that does is the cost of these data centers. How does that translate to their personal lives?

[Erin Brockovich]

Well, you know, so like, I pulled out a couple of people that had just written in recently, you know, and they're coming from all states. So this is a person out of the Massachusetts area who normally had a. This was their water bill around $22 a month, which is now spiked over $350 a month. There's other reports here on electric. This person is reporting that their summertime electric bill went from about 50amonth to in excess of 300amonth. These are big jumps, and it's a huge strain for them. And there hasn't been a conversation for these companies that are going to come in. You pay for the electric. Why do we. And we have to pay that cost. And then we have a facility in our backyard that is straining our other natural resources. And they're very concerned about the future impact of their health. So I even just received. And again, I really want People to know. We read each submission and try to vet and verify that information. Coming out of Texas, where they got a notice from the utility that their electric rates could increase 75%.

[Hari Sreenivasan]

Let's talk also a little bit about the water usage and the concerns that people have. Most people watching they might not understand. What does the local aquifer have to do? What's the water coming out of my sink? What's the water that's going into the data center? How are these all connected?

[Erin Brockovich]

So there's a whole lot of things that are happening. There's the municipal side and then there's people on their own well water. And I'm watching a lot what's going on with the well water because these big data centers are coming in in rural areas. The old data centers, and we know were smaller and they were mostly in suburban areas, but now they're encroaching out into these rural areas of farmland where a lot of people are on their own well water. So they report a first knob reduction in water pressure. They aren't getting any pressure. Their water's just dripping into a bucket. They're starting to report, especially during construction phases and, and these are very, very large centers. I mean you're talking that could be 20 super sized Walmarts in one location in a big farmland area. And so the aquifers can be disturbed and they start sending in pictures. Wait a minute, why is my water this murky brown well, you can't drink it at that point till you know what's in it. Then they report water pressure losses. Then they report that they're having to drill new wells. They're starting to report that they're already in a drought stricken location. And the amounts of water that the AI data centers need, they're very concerned that they could lose their aquifers and they could literally be out of water.

[Hari Sreenivasan]

Yeah, you know, there's been some pushback to this idea partly because people say, hey, you know what, look at the number of golf courses there are and what kind of water we use there. And the AI centers use a much, much incredibly smaller fraction. How do you respond to that idea that this isn't that much water in the grand scheme of things?

[Erin Brockovich]

Well, I'm not sure about that. Considering how many are coming up and the size of them and the massive amounts of, you know, 30 million liters, et cetera, 60 million liters, etcetera. Of water that's being used on top of an already, already strained system. I think this is a conversation that needs to be had because we have limited resources, we have drought conditions and we have antiquated aged out infrastructure everywhere. And in comparison to a golf course or a data center, you know, you've seen the studies where they say they'd rather live next to a nuclear facility than a large data center. Because this isn't about one issue. It's all of our resources and it's every resource that's important to them. And they feel that this is a stake that's too high. You're not talking just water, you're talking water, you're talking land, you're talking air, you're talking health, you're talking their entire resources and environment feels under assault and is in jeopardy with no conversation to be had.

[Hari Sreenivasan]

Are there specific companies that have, have been responsive to what they're seeing? Through your map, the numbers of letters that you're talking about, what's the response been?

[Erin Brockovich]

We've seen one situation where Microsoft came out and educated the community and they did show up. We have a trust factor at this point. Right, because we should have done that in the beginning. But they did show up. They start to get their questions answered. And when that happens, this is where we are seeing some shifts. I believe there's about 79 municipalities that have now put on bans, moratoriums or a pause. Give us the data, give us an environmental impact study. Let the council and us relook at this agenda. So let's have a pause before we come back and make a vote.

[Hari Sreenivasan]

You know you've also started collecting health reports when you talk about health. There was a model in 2024 led by Caltech and UC Riverside. And the researchers there estimated that the data centers could, and I want to emphasize the word could contribute to increased numbers of asthma symptom cases and premature deaths. And you know that this public health cost could be somewhere around $20 billion. What are you seeing? What are people complaining about?

[Erin Brockovich]

Most of the noise for one. Let's start right there. They said it literally. It makes them feel like they're going mad. And I've heard from ranchers who are concerned with this long 24 hour humming, hissing. It's pretty hard to describe it. It's pretty irritating if you got to listen to it 24, 7. And again this information comes in and we're going to go out and take a look at it. But they're concerned that in the past year the cattle haven't had one live birth. So what is that? So these are things that we have to look at. They talk about headaches, from the noise during the construction phase. This is a huge job and it comes out of nowhere. Whether it be the dust, increased asthma, congestion, being delayed to work, watery eyes, itchy skin, all those types of health issues are there. So we kind of monitor what it is from during construction to, again, something that's up and running. And it does take time for these things to show themselves. Once something's up and running, should there

[Hari Sreenivasan]

be a different response from the federal government? Right now, the administration, the president passed an executive order saying, quote, my administration will utilize federal federally owned land and resources for the expeditious and orderly development of data centers. And it goes on to instruct the EPA to change the Clean water and Clean Air act regulations to get these facilities built fast. So what would you advise the federal government to do?

[Erin Brockovich]

Oh, well, that's a really difficult question for me to answer. You know, I've done this for 30 years and watch federal oversight that goes down to state and then state goes down to local. And I think we're just on a very slippery slope here. You know, we do the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result, and we put the cart before the horse. And I've learned, communities have learned. I think we all have that. Once we do that process and then the studies come, we come to find out 10 years later, we have a huge problem. I think that we really need to know this information on the up front so we don't make that type of mistake again. This is everything on the table that matters. Our water, our electricity, our land, our food, our wildlife, our animals, and our health. And I would like to see our, our government take that into account and do the right thing on the up front. We're more than capable of doing that.

[Hari Sreenivasan]

Erin Brockovich, thanks so much.

[Erin Brockovich]

Thank you.

[Bianna Golodriga]

And finally, Romeo, Romeo, wherefore art thou ro meow? Well, at Turkey's Born of an open air theater, this cat showed no sign of stage fright, making an unexpected entry during a performance of Romeo and Juliet. The feline sauntered on stage during the pivotal scene of Shakespeare's notorious tragedy, stealing the spotlight from the unfolding drama. While this certainly isn't the traditional ending to the show, the star crossed performers were a real crowd pleaser. Shout out to Violet for writing that for us. We loved, we love, love this video. What a great story. All right, this is it for us for now. Thanks so much for watching and goodbye from New York.

[Anderson Cooper]

Hey, I'm Anderson Cooper. On my podcast all there Is, we explore grief and loss in all its complexities. My guest today is Amanda Pierre. She's an actress, a producer, and a writer. In Late August of 2025, Amanda was diagnosed with breast cancer. The following day, her father died and her mom died some four months later.

[Amanda Pierre]

I was really out of remove, Like, I was watching it from some kind of altitude, maybe for both things, like the cancer, and also felt like a weird sense of, like, I'm stealing bases. Like, I had one foot on the cancer and I was trying to, like, connect with the fact that my dad was dying and honor him by thinking about him, by being present, talking, grief, building community.

[Anderson Cooper]

That's what the podcast is all about. This is all there is. Listen and follow wherever you get your podcasts.