Amanpour – Former Canadian Opposition Leader Michael Ignatieff

CNN Podcasts | January 27, 2026
Host: Bianna Golodryga (in for Christiane Amanpour)
Guest: Michael Ignatieff, former leader of Canada’s Liberal Party and president of Central European University

Episode Overview

This episode explores the rapidly shifting global alliances and the perceived unraveling of the US-led world order, focusing on recent trade negotiations involving Canada, Europe, China, and the US. Michael Ignatieff joins the discussion to reflect on Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney’s warnings about the decline of the rules-based international order, the rise of great power rivalry, and what it means for so-called "middle powers" like Canada. The episode weaves in the context of American domestic politics under President Trump, Europe’s strategic recalibrations, security questions, and the immigration debate, offering a broad and candid survey of the geopolitical fault lines shaping today’s world.

Main Topics and Key Discussion Points

1. Cracks in the Rules-Based International Order

• India and the EU have finalized a sweeping trade deal; Canada is forging a strategic partnership with China, triggering threats of US tariffs under President Trump ([01:12-02:30]).
• Mark Carney (Canadian Prime Minister) at Davos: "If we're not at the table, we’re on the menu" ([02:32]).
• Ignatieff echoes Carney’s urgency, calling this a “rupture, not a transition” in global affairs ([02:45]).

2. The Plight (and Strategy) of Middle Powers

• Ignatieff: The global system is breaking into three blocs – US/Western Hemisphere, China/East Asia, and Russia/Europe ([03:40]).
• Most countries are "middle states" with limited power; their best survival strategy is to diversify alliances, trade among each other, and play major powers off one another ([04:00-05:00]).
• Risks and hopes in Canada’s current approach: While striving for stability and economic strength through diversification, Canada must avoid provoking US retaliation ([04:30-05:50]).

3. US-Canada Tensions and Carney's Defiance

• President Trump claimed, “Canada survives because of America” following Canada’s China deal, threatening a 100% tariff ([05:51]).
• Mark Carney’s forceful reply:

  “Canada doesn’t live because of the United States. Canada thrives because we are Canadian.” ([06:37], Ignatieff delivering Carney’s words)

• Carney judges that America's own economic interdependence with Canada (energy, lumber, aluminum) could force Trump to negotiate, despite hostile rhetoric ([07:39-09:57]).

4. Middle Powers: False Choices and New Realities

• Ross Douthat’s NYT column argues middle powers risk falling under China’s sway if they assert independence from the US ([09:57-11:23]).
• Ignatieff’s response:

  “I don’t think…our choice is submission to one power bloc or another…the world has changed much more than…Ross Douthat understands.” ([11:23])

• Points to emerging powers (India, Brazil, Africa) and the possibility of “middle powers” working in concert to resist both US and Chinese hegemony.

5. NATO, European Security, and Trump

• NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte defends continued European dependence on the US for security, praising Trump’s “good stuff” ([13:28-14:08]).
• Ignatieff: Europe may need to “think very new and slightly scary thoughts” about self-reliance (France and UK have their own nuclear deterrents), especially if US security guarantees evaporate ([14:20-16:10]).
• The "Greenland debacle" revealed growing rupture and unity among US allies in defiance of Trump’s overtures for US acquisition ([16:10-17:45]).

"Americans need to understand just how deeply this crossed every line that Europeans can live with…” ([16:39], Ignatieff)

6. Trump’s Foreign Policy: Me First, Not America First

• Later in the episode, Thomas Friedman joins Walter Isaacson to reinforce that Trump’s decision-making is driven not by strategic calculation or national interest but by his personal moods and “superstitions" ([38:41]).

“It’s entirely driven by the moods, attitudes, and superstitions of a president who is more unbounded than any president we basically had in the modern era.”
– Michael Ignatieff ([38:41])

• The Trump administration's unpredictability and lack of institutional checks have left allies uncertain; markets and the wider world are beginning to push back ([41:02-42:32]).

7. The Role of China and the Future of Alliances

• Canada’s new trade opening to China is interpreted as both pragmatic and risky ([42:32]).
• Ignatieff: China and Russia would love to see America lose its global alliances – the real American "secret sauce" ([42:47]).
• “We have allies, they have vassals.” ([43:35], Ignatieff)

8. Globalization, Populism, and Immigration

• Despite criticisms of globalization’s uneven rewards, Ignatieff argues it’s produced unparalleled prosperity, especially lifting India and China from poverty ([46:22-48:21]).
• Immigration: Calls for a “high wall with a big gate”—that is, robust border controls combined with strong legal immigration ([48:39-50:30]).
• The politics of division, as practiced by Trump in places like Minneapolis, threaten consensus and stability ([50:30-52:40]).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On the End of the Rules-Based Order

• “We are in the midst of a rupture, not a transition.”
  – Michael Ignatieff ([02:45])

• “The strong can do what they can and the weak must suffer what they must.”
  – Mark Carney, paraphrased by Ignatieff ([06:12])

On Middle Power Survival

• “Most states are middle states… These middle states then have to get together, begin to trade with each other, begin to play one big power off against another. And that's a strategy for survival.”
  – Michael Ignatieff ([03:40])

Pushback Against US Bullying

• “Canada doesn’t live because of the United States. Canada thrives because we are Canadian.”
  – Michael Ignatieff channeling Carney ([06:37])

On Trump’s Governing Style

• “It’s entirely driven by the moods, attitudes, and superstitions of a president who is more unbounded than any president we basically had in the modern era.”
  – Michael Ignatieff ([38:41])

On Alliances vs. Vassals

• “They have vassals, China and Russia. And we have allies.”
  – Michael Ignatieff ([43:35])

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:32] – Carney’s Davos warning; “If we’re not at the table, we’re on the menu.”
• [03:40] – Ignatieff: The new world of blocs and middle power coordination.
• [06:12-06:48] – Carney’s “defiant” rhetoric and reply to Trump.
• [07:39-09:57] – Strategic logic behind Canada’s diversification and Trump’s tariff threats.
• [11:23] – Ignatieff disputes US-centric, binary models for middle powers.
• [14:20-16:10] – Military alliances, European self-defense, and consequences of US disengagement.
• [38:41] – Ignatieff on the personalism and unpredictability of Trump’s leadership.
• [43:35] – Comparison: US has allies, China and Russia have vassals.
• [46:22] – Globalization’s effects and the populist backlash.
• [48:39-50:30] – Immigration policy: “high wall, big gate.”

Additional Content Highlights

• Documentary Feature: "The Tale of Siljan" follows a Macedonian farmer’s relationship with migrating storks as an allegory for economic migration and resilience ([28:21-36:24]).
• On-the-Ground Reports: Updates from Iran ([18:48-20:09]) and Syria ([22:01-25:43]), illustrating the ripple effects of American foreign policy shifts.
• Holocaust Remembrance: Survivor Tova Friedman shares her testimony on the importance of telling stories to warn against resurgent hatred ([53:50-54:29]).

Conclusion

This episode delivers an incisive analysis of a world at an inflection point, where the collapse of decades-old certainties paves the way for new rivalries, strategies, and narratives. Michael Ignatieff’s and Mark Carney’s perspectives frame a sobering discussion on sovereignty, alliance-building, and democratic resilience in the face of abrupt power shifts and nationalist politics. For listeners, it’s a compelling entry point into understanding the profound recalibrations underway in both global power and the Western political imagination.