Amanpour – CNN Podcasts

Episode: Former NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg
Date: October 21, 2025
Host: Christiane Amanpour

Episode Overview

This episode features an in-depth interview with former NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg about his decade-long leadership of the Alliance during pivotal moments—Russia’s aggression in Ukraine, Donald Trump’s challenges to NATO’s cohesion, and the lessons of hindsight as captured in his new memoir On My Watch. The episode also includes a segment with Oscar-winning Israeli-Palestinian filmmakers Basil Adra and Yuval Abraham discussing the ongoing West Bank crisis, and a conversation between Walter Isaacson and former Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy about constitutional law and free speech.

The program weaves together major global affairs—the enduring test of NATO unity, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and the American judiciary’s evolving role—with first-person insights and candid reflections from those at the heart of recent history.

Key Segments and Insights

1. NATO, Russia, and Ukraine: Stoltenberg Reflects

The Risk of a Trump-Putin Summit

• (02:40-03:17)
  Amanpour presses Stoltenberg on the risks of President Trump’s anticipated summit with President Putin, especially after Trump’s wavering support for supplying Ukraine with offensive weapons.
  • Stoltenberg:

    “I think it is important to talk to Russia, not to demonstrate weakness, but to demonstrate strength. The only way to end the war...is to convince President Putin that he will not win on the battlefield.” (03:17)

NATO’s Inadequacy and Missed Opportunities

• (05:14-06:23)
  Stoltenberg is candid about NATO’s shortcomings in supporting Ukraine after Russia’s 2014 annexation of Crimea.
  • Stoltenberg:

    “The big mistake was that...most NATO allies hesitated to deliver any meaningful military aid to Ukraine. Had we provided more support earlier on, many Ukrainian lives could have been saved.” (05:32)

Obama’s Calculus: Caution Versus Risk

• (06:23-06:59)
  Amanpour references Obama’s reluctance to arm Ukraine for fear of escalation:
  • Amanpour:

    "Obama was keen to emphasize that we shouldn't offer false hope, believed Ukraine was more important to Russia...Wrong calculus."

  • Stoltenberg:

    “Not only the US at that time, but almost all allies were afraid...Well, we didn't support Ukraine and Russia invaded.” (06:59)

Personal Accountability and Hindsight

• (07:56-08:18)
  • Stoltenberg:

    “I try in the book to also be honest about my own mistakes...I could have done even more to be even stronger in trying to convince allies...” (07:56)

The Language of Power

• (08:18-09:33)
  Amanpour challenges him with the warning his spokeswoman gave about Russia's need for “the language of power.”
  • Stoltenberg:

    “My main message...was to do deterrence, defence and dialogue...But I could of course have done more, be even more outspoken...” (09:18)

Effectiveness of Targeting Inside Russia

• (09:33-10:10)
  • Stoltenberg:

    “Russia is paying a very high price. They have lost up to 1 million men...The higher the price they have to pay, the sooner they will to sit down.” (09:41)

2. Leadership on the World Stage: Character and Crisis

Zelenskyy: A Profile in Leadership

• (10:10-11:01)
  • Stoltenberg:

    “I underestimated him when I met him...He turned out to be an extremely strong political leader with personal courage...It's hard to imagine any political leader that could have done anything similar...” (10:31)

Sergey Lavrov—Diplomat and Bully

• (11:01-12:07)
  Stoltenberg describes tense, unproductive meetings with Russian foreign officials.
  • Amanpour:

    “You call Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov a unique combination of an elegant diplomat and a bully...How shocking was that?”

  • Stoltenberg:

    “It was not very shocking...for many years, worked with President Putin, with Foreign Minister Lavrov...But...everything changed...with the annexation of Crimea in 2014.” (12:07)

Missed Diplomacy Before Invasion

• (13:04-14:23)
  Stoltenberg recounts failed last-minute diplomatic efforts with Russia in January 2022:
  • Stoltenberg:

    “We offered Russia a path to peace...But...the Russians had already decided to use military force.” (13:33)

3. Managing Trump and NATO’s Survival

Trump’s Hostility and Internal Strategy

• (14:23-15:02)
  Stoltenberg describes instructing NATO staff to avoid mocking Trump and instead focus on engagement.
  • Stoltenberg:

    “My message to all of us was that we need to...engage with him...and try to find common ground.” (14:52)

The Infamous 2018 Brussels Summit

• (16:13-18:13)
  Stoltenberg vividly recounts the near-collapse of NATO:
  • Stoltenberg:

    “We actually feared that President Trump was going to leave the whole meeting...If the US President had left a NATO summit...then NATO would have ceased to exist.” (17:00)

Diplomatic Evasion Under Pressure

• (18:34-20:26)
  Amanpour pushes Stoltenberg about whether NATO members actually increased defense spending.
  • Stoltenberg:

    “When you're Secretary General, NATO, there is one main responsibility...to keep this alliance together. I cannot say that Trump is wrong...I needed to paper over those disagreements.” (20:26)

Stoltenberg’s Retrospective Honesty

• (20:58-22:12)
  • Stoltenberg:

    “I believe in transparency, I believe in openness...But also the failure to deliver enough support Ukraine fast enough...Of course it's easy to be transparent...when I step down than when I was in position.” (22:12)

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On preventing the war:

  "We didn't support Ukraine and Russia invaded." — Jens Stoltenberg (06:59)

• On leadership and honesty:

  “I try in the book to be honest about my own mistakes.” — Stoltenberg (07:56)
  “Dialogue should not be a sign of weakness. Dialogue should be a sign of strength.” — Stoltenberg (11:19)
  “If the biggest ally says will not defend, then...its affairs.” — Stoltenberg, on deterrence and Trump (17:00)
  “When you're Secretary General, NATO...to keep this alliance together...I needed to paper over those disagreements.” — Stoltenberg (20:26)

[24:37] On-the-Ground in the West Bank: “No Other Land” Team

Life under Occupation and Settler Violence

• Basil Adra:

  “Israeli occupation forces...targeted Palestinians who speak out loudly against the occupation...My home had been invaded at least three times, harassing me...just to make, as they call it, like their presence felt...” (27:16)

• Yuval Abraham:

  “Much of our work...is based on the realization that Israelis and Palestinians...are living under a system which privileges Jewish Israelis in every way...We are trying to do what we can to use this privilege to show that there are Israelis who are opposing this occupation...But we are very little.” (29:06)
  “Things are really severe on the ground right now.” (29:59)

U.S. Distribution Challenges

• Basil Adra:

  "Major distributors...did not want to pick 'No Other Land'...politically trying to block us from reaching the American audience...So we're releasing it by our own..." (31:26)

• Yuval Abraham:

  “We want to show people who might not understand really how brutal life is under this military occupation” (32:24)
  “We need to be critical of this. It cannot go on.” (33:51)

“What Will You Rebuild First?”

• Basil Adra:

  "The need is very big for the community here...For me is a priority...to supply water to communities here because very hard for many people to get water or electricity." (34:58)

Gaza Ceasefire and Ongoing Struggle

• Yuval Abraham:

  “I think it's not flattened by coincidence...it was done house after house, city after city...That's why Netanyahu...they view this as some sort of accomplishment...a form of ethnic cleansing." (35:47)

• Basil Adra:

  "Ethnic cleansing here in Masafiyap and all over the West Bank is not stopping...we need...the people who are protesting...to do more, as Yuval said, to have political solution for the future." (37:09)

[38:46] Law and Liberty: Walter Isaacson interviews Justice Anthony Kennedy

The West’s Influence

• Kennedy:

  "You're in a place which is so rich...that you can find yourself and see the world beyond." (39:27)

Free Speech Consistency

• Kennedy:

  “When you write an opinion in a case like [flag burning], you want to write it so that the public at large can read the case and understand its reasoning...” (41:13)
  Regarding Citizens United: "The answer is an informed public. The voters ought to know who is giving money...You need informed voters for democracy to work." (44:13)

On Race and Liberty

• Kennedy:

  “Brown was just a beginning, not an ending. Racial minorities...still takes a sensitive, decent, caring society to recognize this and try to do better." (46:19)

Supreme Court’s “Shadow Docket”

• Kennedy:

  "We didn't have...as many motions now with respect to executive orders. And that is different...the time factor is important because the order goes into effect right away." (47:37)

The Constitution and Liberty

• Isaacson:

  “That implies that the Constitution is a living thing, that the concept of liberty keeps expanding…” (48:51)

• Kennedy:

  "We have to understand that protest is a part of free speech. It's necessary...But it has to be respectful..." (49:45) "Every government official...has the duty to obey the Constitution..." (51:39)

Important Timestamps

• 02:40 — Stoltenberg on risks of Trump-Putin summit
• 05:14 — Admission of NATO’s inadequacy after Crimea
• 09:41 — Russian losses and strategic calculus
• 10:31 — Stoltenberg on Zelenskyy’s leadership
• 13:33 — NATO’s last attempt at diplomacy before full-scale invasion
• 16:13 — Near collapse of NATO at 2018 Brussels summit
• 18:34 — Behind-the-scenes on defusing Trump’s threat to leave
• 24:37 — Basil Adra & Yuval Abraham: life and violence in the West Bank
• 32:24 — US distribution of “No Other Land”
• 35:47 — Aftermath of Gaza; prospects for peace
• 38:46 — Justice Kennedy: origins, free speech, Citizens United
• 47:37 — Shadow docket and the court’s responsibilities
• 49:45 — Protest, law, and liberty

Tone and Style

Throughout, Amanpour’s direct and probing style elicits frank and sometimes vulnerable reflections—Stoltenberg is at times self-critical, but also resolute about the value of unity. The mood with the filmmakers is somber and urgent, highlighting both personal risk and a call for international awareness. Justice Kennedy’s segment is reflective, scholarly, and accessible.

Summary

This episode provides an unvarnished look at the behind-the-scenes of NATO leadership through wars and uncertainty, wrestles with ongoing injustice in the Israeli-occupied West Bank through the voices of those enduring it, and meditates on the evolution of constitutional liberties in the United States. Across all segments, the common thread is the challenge—and necessity—of moral and political clarity in troubled times.