Amanpour – December 16, 2025

Episode Theme:
This episode of Amanpour, guest-hosted by Bianna Golodryga, dives into three major topics: a potential breakthrough in Ukraine war negotiations with insights from former U.S. Ambassador to NATO Kurt Volker and Ukraine’s former Minister Timofey Milovanov; an exploration of identity and belonging through Yousef Swade’s one-man play, “Between the River and the Sea”; and an in-depth conversation with Professor Sai Prakash on the evolving, increasingly political use of the presidential pardon in the U.S.

I. Ukraine Peace Talks – Real Progress or Wishful Thinking?

Guests: Kurt Volker (Former US Ambassador to NATO), Timofey Milovanov (Former Ukrainian Minister of Economic Development)

Main Points & Insights

The State of Negotiations

• Host (Bianna Golodryga) sets the stage:
  • Recent high-level negotiations between US, Ukraine, and Europe have reportedly resolved 90% of disagreements with Russia.
  • Strong "NATO-like" security guarantees offered to Ukraine as an alternative to immediate NATO membership.
  • Major unresolved issues: notably, Russia’s demands for the Donbas region.
    ([01:30]–[03:12])

Kurt Volker’s Analysis

• Volker expresses skepticism on claims of progress:

  “We have never heard from Russia that they are prepared to end the war… everything we hear from Russia is the opposite…”
  ([03:12])

• Russia’s ongoing demands:

  • Entire Donbas, Zaporizhzhia, Kherson
  • Rollback of NATO to pre-1997 borders
  • Sole control over Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant

• Positive outcome:

  • The talks have aligned US, Ukraine, and European positions on what a just peace looks like.

European Fears and Security Concerns

• If the deal rewards aggression:

  “It will whet the appetite for Putin to do it again…other countries in Europe…feel very, very vulnerable…”
  ([04:44])

• On US/NATO's credibility (Article 5):

  • Volker highlights necessity of demonstrating US commitment to NATO allies to deter Russian expansionism.
  • Security guarantees for Ukraine must carry weight equivalent to NATO’s own commitments.
    ([05:38])

Security Guarantees – Substance or Symbol?

• Volker questions U.S. strategy:

  “If Putin is the one rejecting peace, why would we be pulling those security guarantees off the table?”
  ([06:41])

• The possibility of Trump submitting guarantees to Senate for ratification is seen as “a very good step.”

  “They are very serious, and indeed President Trump would submit them to the Senate for ratification to make them really bind as a US Security commitment…”
  ([06:41])

• US arms sales to Ukraine:

  • Ongoing sales to continue, seen as beneficial for US defense industry and as ongoing support for Ukraine’s defense after any ceasefire ([07:46])

Frozen Russian Assets and European Agency

• Debate over $250B in frozen Russian assets:
  • Europe has moved “very, very slowly.”
  • Plan: Use assets as collateral for a loan to Ukraine, repaid with future reparations.

    “The European Union is not in full agreement… they are still trying to do the diplomatic work…”
    ([09:22])

Ukrainian Perspective – Timofey Milovanov

Security Guarantees and Zelenskyy's Room to Maneuver

• On Ukraine foregoing NATO now:

  “Okay, no NATO… but give us something equivalent to NATO… as long as it has security guarantees, that’s what it really needs.”
  ([11:50])

• On US pressure being focused on Ukraine:

  “United States… uses mostly leverage against Ukraine while it’s trying to use both stick and carrot with respect to Russia. And it’s deeply unfair and disturbing. But… the situation is changing somewhat.”
  ([12:51])

• Russia may be happy with either ongoing attritional conflict or a pause in fighting (“meat grinder in Donbass or stop for a while, for several years…”)

On Territorial Compromise

• Zelensky cannot cede territory Ukraine holds:

  “He cannot. The constitution prohibits him from that. It’s not up to the president nor even to the parliament.”
  ([14:14])

  • Even if agreed at negotiation, such concessions would not survive constitutional or political processes in Ukraine.

• Pragmatic outcome:

  • Most likely, only a ceasefire with demilitarized zones and observers is a possible compromise.

Troop Reduction and Sovereignty

• On Russian demand for Ukrainian troop reductions:

  “No agreement can supersede the constitution and put limits on military forces… So we have a similar legal problem…”
  ([15:30])

  • Ukrainians want to maintain military parity to ensure self-defense.

Frozen Assets – Frustration and Leadership

• Diverging US and EU approaches:

  “Americans…want to control how this money is spent, but they don’t have a choice… Russians actually move this funding…fearing that the US will be stricter… but Europe is putting their foot down.”
  ([16:53])

  “This is an example of weak leadership, indecisiveness and problems with coordination which, frankly, Russia exploits with respect to Europe…”
  ([16:53])

• Doesn’t expect decisive European action unless there’s a crisis:

  “Something has to happen to Europe for Europe to truly wake up… the general public… are simply in denial about the real threat Russia presents.”
  ([17:47])

On Security Guarantees and the Future

• Skeptical about guarantees’ enforcement:

  “I am not confident at all. It will all depend on the operational structure…”
  ([19:02])

  • Warns that only strong, operational support will make guarantees credible, and believes a future Russian invasion would prompt a much stronger Western response.

Key Timestamps

• [03:12] — Volker doubts Russian willingness for peace.
• [04:44] — European fears about rewarding aggression.
• [06:41] — Details (and doubts) on US security guarantees.
• [09:22] — Frozen Russian assets debate.
• [11:50] — Milovanov on Ukraine’s priorities.
• [14:14] — Inviability of territorial concessions.

II. Between the River and the Sea – Identity, Belonging and the Power of Personal Narrative

Guests: Youssef Swade (Actor, Playwright), Isabella Sedlak (Co-writer, Director)

Main Points & Insights

The Play and Its Intent

• Host Bianna Golodryga describes the play as a deeply personal, non-linear narrative of identity straddling Israeli, Palestinian, Arab, and European cultures.

  “It was as if I was some companion alongside with you…having coffee with you and learning about your life.”
  ([21:00])

• Opening the show intentionally ‘not political’

  “In the beginning, we tell the audience… you don’t even need to [protest] because I’m just gonna talk about my life. And of course, in my life there is this complexity…”
  — Youssef Swade ([22:11])

Navigating Multiple Identities

• Swade’s background: Arab Christian by birth, Israeli citizenship, raising Jewish children in Berlin.

• His children’s mixed heritage seen as a “gift,” embodying multiple cultures and languages:

  “My son says, ‘I’m everything and nothing at the same time.’ And for me, it’s like it touches my heart.” ([26:25])

• The play features scenes in Hebrew, Arabic, English, and German, reflecting the reality of his family life.

Memorable Quote/Exchange: Navigating What Others See

• From the play:

  “What do you mean you’re an Arab but you’re Israeli? … And you’re also Palestinian. What? …Are you Hamas?”
  ([28:40])

  • Captures the confusion and labeling Swade’s family faces regularly.

Conversations with His Children

• Swade on his son’s reaction to potential IDF service:

  “If I’ll serve in the Israeli army, who should I fight against? Against myself?” ([29:30])

• Swade’s realization:

  “Instead of just talking to your son, talk to everyone...” (re: making the play) ([31:05])

Resistance to Telling His Story

• Isabella Sedlak on Swade’s initial hesitation:

  “I’m going to be hated by everyone… either one side or the other… Because I cannot choose a side. And this not choosing a side created a third narrative…”
  ([31:24])

• The play’s ‘third position’ invites others with mixed, in-between identities to relate.

October 7th As a Turning Point

• Swade recounts friends pushing him to “choose a side” after Hamas’s attack:

  “…they couldn’t stand it. It’s like, how could you look at the other side and see them as human beings, you know? And…for me… it’s tragic.”
  ([35:18])

Recognition for Authenticity

• Golodryga praises the play’s emotional honesty:

  “Your authenticity, the fact that you can tell both of them [Jewish and Palestinian friends], I feel your pain and really mean it…”
  ([36:47])

Key Timestamps

• [22:11] — Swade on opening the play, avoiding explicit politics
• [26:25] — Swade reflects on his children’s experience of mixed identity
• [28:40] — Excerpt from play: “Are you Hamas?”
• [29:30] — Swade’s son: “Who should I fight against? Against myself?”
• [31:24] — Sedlak describes initial resistance and emergence of a “third narrative”
• [35:18] — Swade: October 7th’s effect on his relationships

III. The Presidential Pardon: History and New Dangers

Guest: Professor Sai (Sy) Prakash (Legal scholar, author: The Presidential Pardon: The Short Clause with a Long, Troubled History)
Interviewer: Walter Isaacson

Historical Context & Constitutional Debates

• Origin: U.S. pardon power modeled after British royal tradition, designed to mitigate harsh criminal laws. ([38:09])
• Federalist Paper debates: Alexander Hamilton defends broad pardon powers but acknowledged risks.

  "...his discussion in the Federalist is somewhat nuanced because he doesn't say that there aren't any potential issues with the breadth of the pardon power. He admits that there are..." ([39:02])

Presidential Pardons – Past and Present

• Historical Example:

  • Washington’s mass pardon of Whiskey Rebellion participants aimed at pacifying dissent ([40:22])

• Contemporary Concerns:

  • Pardons used for overtly political purposes, not envisioned by the Founders:

  “The pardon power is being used for political purposes in ways that would have been unfathomable at the founding…” ([41:51])

  • Both Trump and Biden administrations have granted pardons preemptively and to associates/contributors.

• Trump-era pardons:

  • Pardoning January 6 defendants and campaign donors.

    “President Trump is pardoning many, many contributors… I wonder whether that taboo has been utterly broken by this president…”
    ([43:32])

• Pardons now used as campaign promises:

  “Presidents are going to run for office, promising to pardon their political allies… and you know, it turns out that sometimes partisans are guilty of crimes…”
  ([48:35])

Notable Quotes & Analysis

• “If you are someone who's a billionaire… you would donate to a campaign or pay a lobbyist…thinking you might avoid $100m... fine.”
  ([45:06])

• Pardoning preemptively: Not new, but growing more strategic and controversial

  “Go back to the rebellion example. When you pardon rebels, you're not saying we're going to prosecute you... you're saying if you lay down your arms now, you won't be prosecuted...”
  ([46:48])

• Power unchecked:

  “The president does not need to go to Congress to pardon people, and there's no judicial review or very little judicial review of these pardons.”
  ([50:20])

Solutions and Outlook

• Only constitutional amendment could restrict the power.
• Voters should demand more responsible practices (“vote for candidates who promise to be more circumspect…”):

  “…act upon only those applications that experts have vetted, then I think people would have greater confidence in the pardon process.”
  ([50:53])

Key Timestamps

• [41:51] — Pardons for political purposes, not as originally intended
• [43:32] — Pardoning contributors and campaign donors
• [46:48] — Preemptive pardons and their history
• [48:35] — Pardoning political allies as campaign strategy
• [50:20] — Pardon power: unchecked and unilateral

IV. Brief Cultural Segment: Jane Austen's 250th Birthday

• Celebration in Bath, iconic moments from Pride and Prejudice adaptations, and a nod to Austen’s enduring literary legacy. ([52:17])

Notable Quotes Recap

• "We have never heard from Russia that they are prepared to end the war…everything we hear from Russia is the opposite…" – Kurt Volker ([03:12])
• "Okay, no NATO… but give us something equivalent to NATO…as long as it has security guarantees, that’s what it really needs." – Timofey Milovanov ([11:50])
• "If I’ll serve in the Israeli army, who should I fight against? Against myself?" – Youssef Swade, relaying his son’s question ([29:30])
• "The pardon power is being used for political purposes in ways that would have been unfathomable at the founding." – Professor Sai Prakash ([41:51])

Episode Summary Conclusion

This Amanpour episode offers a candid, multi-faceted view into the Ukraine-Russia conflict’s diplomatic deadlocks, the lived realities behind complex identities amid the Israel-Palestine conflict, and the growing controversy over politicized presidential pardons in America. Engaged, informed guests provide sobering analysis and personal testimony, challenging assumptions and highlighting the sometimes ambiguous lines between politics and personal life, defense and deterrence, justice and power.