Amanpour Podcast: Former US Deputy Secretary of State Wendy Sherman
CNN Podcasts | Aired: February 17, 2026
Host: Bianna Golodryga (in for Christiane Amanpour)
Guests: Wendy Sherman, Ursula von der Leyen, Keir Starmer, David Holland
Brief Overview
This episode revolves around the current high-stakes diplomatic talks between the US and Iran in Geneva to avert a wider war, and trilateral negotiations concerning the war in Ukraine. Former US Deputy Secretary of State Wendy Sherman offers analysis on the delicate Iran situation, the risks of military escalation, and the new dynamics in American diplomacy. The episode also features European perspectives from Commission President Ursula von der Leyen and UK Prime Minister Keir Starmer on Europe's strategic autonomy after the Munich Security Conference, as well as a compelling climate segment from Antarctica. A moving tribute to Jesse Jackson concludes the episode.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. US–Iran Nuclear Negotiations and Regional Tensions
Stalemate and the Risks of Escalation
- Wendy Sherman (04:46):
- The latest Geneva talks have yielded an agenda for further negotiation and a process for sharing proposals, but no substantive breakthrough.
- Quote:
“I read sort of a holding pattern in many ways … they may have agreed on an agenda of items that need to be resolved … but I would also remind all of us of two really critical facts…” — Wendy Sherman [04:46]
- She revisits the precedent of two-week deadlines and recalls Operation Hammer in June 2025, cautioning that military action scenarios recur in diplomatic cycles.
- The deployment of a US carrier group (Gerald Ford) signals credible military pressure but escalation risks are substantial:
“Yes, our military is better than anyone's in the world. But Iran does have missiles … can strike our troops, American citizens, Israel, partners in the Gulf, create chaos on the oil markets. …even if Iran's leadership was decapitated … we have no idea what would come next.” — Wendy Sherman [05:30]
- Military Posturing and Its Double-Edged Effects
- Both sides are engaging in military “posturing”; Iran has responded to US build-up with threats and drills in the Strait of Hormuz, affecting oil markets [08:30].
- Quote:
“No negotiation of this nature is successful without a credible threat of force. … On the other hand, many of our partners, allies in the region are quite concerned…” — Wendy Sherman [08:30]
- The US is the demanding party; for Iran, “resilience and resistance” are core to its identity [11:02].
The Nuclear Verification Impasse
- With Iran denying IAEA access to sites, and the US demanding zero enrichment, Sherman doubts a sustainable agreement is possible without on-ground verification.
- Quote:
“They want, as we keep hearing from Orochi … that Iran will not submit to threats. There is a real need for Iran to feel that it has dignity as a nation …” — Wendy Sherman [11:33]
Domestic Iranian Legitimacy Crisis
- The deadliest protests in Iran’s modern history have, per Sherman, eroded the regime’s legitimacy among a young, economically pessimistic population [13:19].
- Quote:
“The vast majority of Iranians are under the age of 35. They do not see an economic future for themselves. …The IRGC … really owns the economy of Iran in many ways.” — Wendy Sherman [13:27]
2. US Negotiation Team Dynamics and Diplomatic Process
- Sherman is highly critical of having businessman-negotiators Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner leading Geneva talks on multiple fronts (Iran, Ukraine, Gaza), noting lack of diplomatic vetting, expertise, and global buy-in:
- Quote:
“It is, in my view, insane to have these two try to do all of that all at once… it is a very transactional approach. We have seen it being used to feather the nest of the Witkoff, Kushner, and Trump families… ” — Wendy Sherman [15:52]
- Reflects on how 2015 negotiations had career diplomats and technical experts, plus Russia, China, and EU at the table, which is not the case now.
- Notably, current talks are largely bilateral US–Iran, US–Russia/Ukraine, with the international community sidelined.
- Concludes, “No great negotiation ever happens because of one person.” [17:59]
3. Ukraine War Negotiations
- Bianna Golodryga notes: US pressure falls mainly on Ukraine, with President Trump pushing Zelenskyy for quick agreement; Russia’s hardliners speak for their side [18:16].
- Sherman calls it “outrageous” that the US is squeezing Ukraine more than Russia, despite Russia’s status as the aggressor.
- Quote:
“All the pressure for the most part has been on Zelensky and Ukraine, which is outrageous given that Russia intervened and horrifically began a war with a sovereign country…” — Wendy Sherman [19:22]
- Mentions Zelenskyy’s willingness to explore demilitarized zones but reasserts that European security is at risk if Russia “wins.”
4. Europe’s Strategic Autonomy After the Munich Security Conference
Transatlantic Tensions and Europe's Response
- Ursula von der Leyen and Keir Starmer discuss Europe’s imperatives for greater defense independence, without abandoning the transatlantic alliance.
- von der Leyen: “We have to be an independent Europe, not a Europe that is leaning on someone, but a Europe that is going forward with friends and allies together…” [22:54]
- Starmer: Asserts Europe hasn’t done enough for its own defense, and calls for urgent, substantive action:
“We shouldn’t get in the warm bath of complacency … Europe hasn’t done enough in its own defence and security for many years.” [23:44]
- Both resist “walking away from NATO,” saying cooperation is still critical.
- Starmer: “NATO has been the single most effective and successful military alliance the world has ever known, and we should never move away from it.” [25:33]
Digital Sovereignty and Red Lines
- Von der Leyen lays out digital sovereignty as “a red line that cannot be uncrossed” [27:59].
- She distinguishes between status quo, disintegration, and “much more in between,” seeking independent strength, not rupture.
Negotiations on Ukraine
- Both leaders stress that the pressure should be put on Russia, not Ukraine; von der Leyen warns against buying the “Russian narrative.”
- von der Leyen:
“He wanted to Russify Ukraine. Ukraine has become European. He wanted to stop NATO. NATO has gotten bigger with Sweden and Finland…” [30:57]
- Starmer: “We’re not dealing with two equal parties. There’s an aggressor, which is Russia, and there is Ukraine, which has been subject to attack and killing and bombing…” [32:51]
Domestic Political Strength
- Starmer responds to concerns about his political vulnerability, stating unity in his party on defense and support for Ukraine is strong, regardless of opposition from fringe elements like Reform (pro-Putin) [35:19].
5. Antarctica & Climate Science — The “Doomsday Glacier”
Rising Sea Levels and Imminent Danger
- Climate scientist David Holland explains the risk posed by the Thwaites Glacier, “the Doomsday Glacier,” in Antarctica. Its rapid retreat could trigger irreversible, multi-foot sea level rises globally [37:54–41:49].
- Quote:
“Once it comes off that lip, … it just unravels itself. …You have the most unstable pre-configured place … but the second thing is you need a trigger. And the trigger showed up around 1940…when warm ocean water appeared on the doorstep of the glacier.” — David Holland [39:51]
- A complete collapse could see sea levels rapidly rise by up to 10 feet, imperiling much of the world’s coastlines.
Scientific Challenges and Innovation
-
Holland details the technical setbacks of the recent Thwaites expedition but insists that learning from failure will change how science is done.
- Suggests leveraging oil and gas industry expertise for better data gathering [47:04].
- Climate mitigation (“removing carbon”) is currently failing; adaptation strategies, or even geoengineering (building undersea barriers), may be necessary [49:56–52:17].
-
Hopeful Take:
“Will this work? Because we cannot afford to build barriers around the entire coastline … But here’s a little place that you could block and for all intents and purposes, it might stop and or halt the problem to give us time.” — David Holland [52:10]
6. Tribute: Civil Rights Leader Jesse Jackson
- Brief but poignant remembrance of Jesse Jackson, who died at 84, emphasizing his role in American civil rights, politics, and inspiring oratory.
- Excerpted DNC speech:
“We must never surrender. America will get better and better. Keep hope alive.” — Jesse Jackson [53:14]
- Excerpted DNC speech:
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- “No negotiation of this nature is successful without a credible threat of force.” — Wendy Sherman [08:30]
- “This is not a negotiation among equals. We are trying to get Iran to do something to make the world safer.” — Wendy Sherman [09:18]
- “Iran never have a nuclear weapon. Iran, really, their entire culture is about resilience and resistance. … There is a real need for Iran to feel that it has dignity.” — Wendy Sherman [11:33]
- “I don’t even know what position Jared Kushner has formally within the administration… No great negotiation ever happens because of one person.” — Wendy Sherman [17:59]
- “The vast majority of Iranians are under the age of 35. They do not see an economic future for themselves.” — Wendy Sherman [13:27]
- “We have to be an independent Europe, not a Europe that is leaning on someone, but a Europe that is going forward with friends and allies together…” — Ursula von der Leyen [22:54]
- “We shouldn’t get in the warm bath of complacency … Europe hasn’t done enough in its own defence and security for many years.” — Keir Starmer [23:44]
- “If you all are thinking that you can do what you have to do without the United States, then dream on, it’s not going to happen.” — NATO Secretary General (quoted) [25:08]
- “Not at all. Recent times, yes. We have performed a geoengineering experiment which we are kicking it up another ratchet level next year in increasing greenhouse gases. …But in the case of this glacier, Thwaites… we, humanity could build a barrier above that, a curtain, and that would stop it.” — David Holland [49:56, 52:10]
Timestamps for Important Segments
- US–Iran negotiations and military buildup: [03:34–13:19]
- Critique of current US diplomatic team: [15:05–17:59]
- Ukraine peace negotiations: [18:16–20:26]
- Munich Security Conference & European strategic autonomy: [22:30–36:50]
- Antarctica & risks of Thwaites Glacier collapse: [37:37–52:17]
- Jesse Jackson tribute: [54:10–54:24]
Summary Table
| Segment | Guest(s)/Speaker(s) | Timestamp | |---------------------------------------|---------------------------------------------|-------------| | Iran Nuclear & Regional Tensions | Wendy Sherman, Bianna Golodryga | 03:34–13:19 | | Current US Diplomatic Approach | Wendy Sherman | 15:05–17:59 | | Ukraine Peace Talks | Wendy Sherman, Bianna Golodryga | 18:16–20:26 | | Europe’s Strategic Autonomy | Ursula von der Leyen, Keir Starmer, C. Fraser| 22:30–36:50 | | Climate & Thwaites Glacier | David Holland, Hari Sreenivasan | 37:37–52:17 | | Jesse Jackson Remembrance | Bianna Golodryga, Jesse Jackson (archival) | 54:10–54:24 |
Tone & Style:
Interview segments are frank, urgent, and analytical, with Sherman’s candor and measured historical perspective, European leaders’ blend of realism & resolve, and Holland’s scientific earnestness standing out. The episode is rich in factual context and anticipates future diplomatic and environmental uncertainties.
For Further Listening
- Entire episode recommended for those seeking insight on the shifting terrains of US international engagement, European autonomy, and the intersection of climate science with geopolitics.