Amanpour: "Hostile to Europe, Warm to Russia"

Date: December 10, 2025
Host: Christiane Amanpour
Key Guests:

• Celeste Wallander (Former Assistant Secretary of Defense, USA)
• Peter Frankopan (Oxford Professor, Historian)
• Kaja Kallas (EU Top Diplomat)
• Mohammed bin Jassim al Thani (Foreign Minister, Qatar)
• José Manuel Albares (Foreign Minister, Spain)
• David Remnick (Editor, The New Yorker)
• Walter Isaacson (Guest Interviewer)

Main Theme

This episode unpacks the implications of the Trump administration’s new National Security Strategy, which adopts a more adversarial tone toward Europe and a warmer stance on Russia. The program explores how this represents a possible realignment of the global order, and what it means in practice for American and European security, the future of NATO, negotiations on Ukraine and Gaza, and broader diplomatic relationships. The episode also spotlights The New Yorker magazine's centenary and includes reflections on quality journalism and democracy.

Key Discussion Points

1. Trump’s National Security Strategy: Overview and European Reaction

• Hostile to Europe, Warm to Russia: President Trump’s latest National Security Strategy is perceived as sidelining Europe while aligning more closely with the Russian worldview. Moscow openly welcomes the shift, while European figures like former Swedish PM Carl Bildt decry it as “to the right of the extreme right in Europe.”
• Civilization and Immigration: Trump claims, in echoes of his UN speech, that immigration is erasing European civilization—language described as “scorching” and divisive.

Notable Quote:

“Trump sets out a new world order in his national security strategy… The document doubles down on Trump's UN speech in September where he told European allies they were failing and says immigration to the continent will, quote, erase itself civilization.”
— Christiane Amanpour (01:51)

European Diplomacy’s Resilience

• Kaja Kallas (EU Top Diplomat): Stresses the enduring alliance with the US, choosing calm pragmatism.
• Amanpour contrasts Kallas’s optimism with Trump’s dismissive remarks:

  “I think they're weak, but I also think that they want to be so politically correct. I think they don't know what to do. Europe doesn't know what to do.”
  — President Trump quoted by Walter Isaacson (03:24)

2. Analysis: Can the US (or Europe) Go It Alone?

With Celeste Wallander and Peter Frankopan

Europe as “Dispensable” and MAGA Influence

• Frankopan: Notes Trump’s “America alone” ethos. Europe is framed as “decaying… more or less dispensable,” yet such a risky realignment toward Russia ignores historical warnings. (04:14)

Internal Contradictions and Strategic Reality

• Wallander: Calls the National Security Strategy “internally inconsistent, incoherent,” pointing out it both denigrates Europe and claims Europe holds a hard power edge over Russia.

  “It's really hard to even grasp onto something to disagree with because the national security strategy is all over the map.”
  — Celeste Wallander (05:57)

• Alliance Necessity:
  Wallander underscores US reliance on European bases and logistics—not just goodwill, but for “national self-interest”:

  “It's not altruism, it is national self interest. It has been for 80 years.” (07:01)

NATO’s Importance

• Amanpour: Reminds that the only use of NATO’s Article 5 was in defense of America after 9/11.

3. What Does Trump’s “Sphere of Influence” Doctrine Mean?

• Amanpour: Suggests the NS Strategy revives the Monroe Doctrine, assigning the US to the Western Hemisphere, China to the Pacific, and Russia its own domain.
• Wallander: Confirms the document explicitly refers to the Monroe Doctrine, but says “influence requires respect”—not Washington’s style under Trump. (10:51)

Notable Quote:

“In order to have influence with countries, you probably shouldn't go around insulting them.”
— Celeste Wallander (11:18)

• Frankopan: Notes how Russian and Chinese influence is growing—China’s trade with Latin America has soared, and US efforts to exclude it look unrealistic. (12:25)

• On the End of the Postwar Order: Rubio echoes in Senate hearings that the global order now works “against US interests.”

• Frankopan: Observes that the US is more coercive than ever—a world of “predators and carnivores,” in which Europe risks irrelevance if it doesn’t unite and “grow teeth.”

  “In a world of predators and of carnivores, being vegetarian… is not helpful.” (13:17)

4. Should Europe “De-Risk” from the US?

• Amanpour: Notes Europeans are quietly “going their own way,” with efforts to shape Ukraine and Gaza peace plans.
• Frankopan: Warns of overdependence (e.g. UK's defense procurement, 85% from US), arguing Europe must “step up”—or risk Trump’s prophecy of “decay” being fulfilled. (17:10)
• Wallander: European nations are already rethinking US defense purchases, prepared to fill US leadership gaps. Any Russia-Ukraine settlement, she insists, needs European backing. (19:02)

5. Panel on Mediation and Conflict: Ukraine, Gaza, and the Role of Diplomats

(Doha Forum Roundtable Moderated by Amanpour)

Mediation in the Middle East

• Mohammed bin Jassim al Thani: Qatar’s strategy is to be a neutral facilitator, keeping channels open even with actors like Hamas and Taliban, because “dialogue is the only pathway to peace.” (23:01, 24:23)

Europe, Just Peace, and Security

• José Manuel Albares: Stresses a “just and lasting peace” in Ukraine—war must not be rewarded, or Europe’s security is at risk everywhere. (26:56)

  “If a war of aggression has a reward to more war… tomorrow’s Europe is going to be more unstable. No one will be out of the risk of waking up and realizing that the strong neighbor wants a part of its sovereignty…” (28:13)

Pathway to a Palestinian State

• Mohammed bin Jassim al Thani: Argues for accountability and enforcement, lamenting that “absence of enforcement means extremists shape events.” (30:19)

• José Manuel Albares: Calls for a unified Palestinian Authority, ending settler violence, connecting Gaza to the West Bank, and East Jerusalem as a capital:

  “We have to go for reconstruction in Gaza. And the day we will have one single Palestinian Authority… that day we will have achieved what Europe stands for.” (31:28)

Ukraine: Europe’s Tools and Leverage

• Kaja Kallas: Denounces pressure on Ukraine for concessions:

  “Putting limitations and stress on Ukraine actually does not bring us long lasting peace. …If aggression is rewarded, we will see it happen again… That’s why we have so many wars nowadays.” (32:57 & 33:49)

• On leverage: Kallas says Europe can wield economic pressure; wars end “when the aggressor runs out of money.” (34:43)

Turkey’s View

• Peter Frankopan (responding for Turkey’s absent FM): Argues Europe must get creative and resilient as US partnership weakens; “the only viable way… is to engage faithfully and forcefully in peace talks.” (36:00)

• Kaja Kallas: Cites a study: peace deals last 35% longer with women at the table, lightening the close of the panel. (36:13)

6. The New Yorker at 100: Reflections on Journalism and Democracy

(Interview: Walter Isaacson with David Remnick)

• On the Magazine’s Longevity:

  “Most publications, if they’re lucky, have a moment when they’re important… To have something last 100 years at a very, very high quality… that’s something quite unusual.”
  — David Remnick (41:10)

• Founding Stories & Legendary Editors:
  Remnick tells Harold Ross’s tale—originally aimed as a funny, cosmopolitan magazine “not for the little old lady from Dubuque”—and how William Shawn transformed reporting depth (45:42).

• Iconic Journalism:
  Reflection on the radical leap that produced John Hersey’s “Hiroshima,” which stunned the nation with eyewitness reporting of atomic devastation.

• On Cultural Impact:
  Discusses Talk of the Town, E.B. White, and the magazine’s role in articulating and defending democracy through rigorous reporting, not just commentary (51:18).

Notable Quote:

“Democracy… is under great challenge from above all the President, United States. …We are duty bound as a democratic institution ourselves to stand up for it.”
— David Remnick (51:18)

“At the heart of… journalism is reporting. Finding out what is true, what is hidden, and bringing it to light… applying the real standards of truth.”
— David Remnick (52:16)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Celeste Wallander (05:57): “Not clear exactly what the White House strategy towards Russia is… it's really hard to even grasp onto something to disagree with because the national security strategy is all over the map.”
• Peter Frankopan (13:17): “In a world of predators and of carnivores, being vegetarian… is not helpful. …Maybe Trump, ironically, is going to push us together like he helped save NATO by mistake.”
• Kaja Kallas (32:57): “In Ukraine war, there are no both parties because there is one aggressor and one victim. …If aggression is rewarded, we will see it happen again… all around the world.”
• Mohammed bin Jassim al Thani (24:23): “If we don't keep the open channels with [non-state actors], none of those conflicts can be resolved.”
• David Remnick (41:10): “To have something last 100 years… that’s something quite unusual in American culture… a miracle.”
• David Remnick (51:18): “Democracy… is under great challenge now.”
• Kaja Kallas (36:13): “If women [are] around the table, the peace agreements actually last 35% more than those where women are not at the table.”

Timestamps for Key Segments

• European Diplomacy & Trump’s Doctrine: 01:51–09:51
• Trump’s Security Strategy Analyzed: 04:14–13:17
• Decoupling and European Autonomy: 17:10–20:50
• Mediation & Conflict (Doha Forum Panel): 22:32–36:38
• The New Yorker at 100, Reporting & Democracy: 37:54–53:20

Tone & Takeaways

Amanpour’s tone is analytical, sometimes incredulous, yet always committed to exploring contradictions and holding leaders to account. The guest panel offers frank (sometimes biting) analysis, particularly on US strategic incoherence and Europe’s growing need to assert its own agency. The Doha panel brings a more diplomatic, solutions-oriented tone, while The New Yorker segment closes on a note of reflection, upholding the enduring value of rigorous, independent journalism as democracy faces its toughest tests.

Summary for New Listeners

This episode of Amanpour cuts to the heart of shifting global alliances, the risk of the US abandoning its traditional European partners, and the peril of accepting spheres of influence that reward aggression. European leaders, though alarmed, are recalibrating with an eye toward self-reliance, while diplomats urge renewed commitment to international law and mediation—even with unsavory actors. In a world where key institutions are under strain, quality, fearless reporting remains vital, as celebrated in the centenary reflections from The New Yorker’s editor.