Podcast Summary: Amanpour – "How Ukraine is Dealing With Trump"
Host: Christiane Amanpour (CNN International Chief Correspondent)
Date: April 24, 2025
Main Theme:
An in-depth exploration of Ukraine’s response to the Trump administration’s controversial peace proposals to end the Russia-Ukraine war, with analyses from Ukrainian MP Oleksiy Goncharenko and EU sanctions envoy David O'Sullivan. The episode also includes a profound segment on Israeli-Palestinian reconciliation and a tribute to the peace-building legacy of Pope Francis.
Episode Overview
Christiane Amanpour investigates the aftermath of a new wave of Russian attacks on Kyiv and the geopolitical earthquake caused by President Trump’s peace proposal for Ukraine, which, according to leaks, asks Kyiv to concede major demands. The episode features:
- Ukrainian MP Oleksiy Goncharenko on Kyiv’s position
- Senior EU diplomat David O'Sullivan on sanctions and Western unity
- Israeli and Palestinian peace activists discussing reconciliation after personal loss
- Excerpts from an interview with Rabbi Abraham Skorka on Pope Francis’ legacy
Major Segments & Key Insights
1. Ukraine, Russia, and Trump’s Peace Proposal
[01:16–15:57]
Context:
- Russia launched devastating airstrikes on Kyiv.
- President Zelenskyy, returning from South Africa, rejects the peace terms proposed by the Trump administration, which are characterized by many in Kyiv as a “term of surrender.”
- The U.S. proposal allegedly includes recognizing Russia's annexation of Crimea, freezing current territorial lines, and an implied halt to Ukraine's NATO aspirations.
Oleksiy Goncharenko (Ukrainian MP) Interview
Uncertainty & Distrust Over US Proposals
- "There were a lot of rumors that the United States pushed Ukraine to recognize part of our territories occupied by Russia as Russian. But Donald Trump yesterday in his statement clearly said that it's not the case... What exactly is in the proposal is not clear." – Goncharenko [04:59]
Kyiv’s Red Lines
- Goncharenko stresses that conceding Crimea is absolutely unacceptable for Ukraine and would destroy international law:
- “That is something which destroys international law, which opens the Pandora box. There will be more aggressions after this in the world, definitely for Ukraine is unacceptable.” [05:33]
On Trump’s Influence on Putin
- “If Putin will ignore his request to stop, then I think it's time for President Trump to show strength. It's enough to show carrot to this donkey. It's time to show the stick and to use it.” [06:50]
Rebutting 'Ukraine Has No Cards'
- “The main card we have is the courage of Ukrainian people. And this courage already made a miracle.” [08:30]
Global Implications
- “If after all these, Ukraine will be abandoned, that will be a clear signal to the world you can't count on the United States... If you want to have security, go nukes.” [09:15]
On Zelenskyy-Trump Relationship & Need for US Support
- “We will not have any other president of the United States next three years and a half. So we respect American people... But what is important for President Trump to remember, Ukraine is tens of millions of people.” [10:52]
On Potential Loss of U.S. Military Aid
- “If Ukraine will be abandoned completely, I think definitely... it leads to catastrophe because United States is absolutely vital partner for us.” [12:19]
- “It can lead us to Afghanistan of President Trump." [12:50]
On NATO and Possible Security Guarantees
- “We need NATO because we need security guarantees that Russia will not attack Ukraine again… If not… we need to find some other ways to deter Russia from possible new attack—economic deal with the US, European boots on the ground, weaponry supply...” [14:54]
2. The European Response & Sanctions
(David O’Sullivan, EU sanctions envoy) [15:57–24:38]
Frozen Russian Assets & Legal Barriers
- O’Sullivan explains why Europe hasn’t seized Russian sovereign assets outright:
- “The assets have been frozen. Russia doesn't have them at their disposal... The question of what ultimately happens to those assets, we are very clear that they will not be going back to Russia anytime soon...” [16:54]
On Using Frozen Assets for Ukraine’s Defense
- “...We are using windfall profits from those assets in order to provide loans to Ukraine for military equipment.” [17:46]
- Legal complexities prevent outright seizure, but “they will be leveraged at some point to pay for the reconstruction of Ukraine.” [18:12]
Sanctions Policy — Western Unity Remains Firm
- “Technically...the United States would be fully free to lift its sanctions. We would sincerely hope that they would not, because... our unity and the collective impact [is critical].” [19:33]
- “European sanctions would require a European decision... Sanctions relief should be something that comes rather at the end of the process, as President von der Leyen said, when it's clear that we are dealing with a sustainable peace process.” [19:51]
Concerns Over US Rhetoric & Russian Influence
- O’Sullivan notes confusion and concern over mixed messages from the Trump administration:
- “It does strike us in Europe as somewhat surprising the extent to which the administration does sometimes take over the Russian narrative on this.” [22:16]
- “The simplest way to peace is for Mr. Putin to say, I'm going to stop waging this war. I don't quite understand why there is a sort of equivalence between Ukraine and Russia. Russia is the aggressor.” [19:51]
If U.S. Withdraws as Negotiator
- “Our sincere wish would be that the United States maintains its effort to try to bring about a peace. We will certainly maintain our sanctions and... full support for Ukraine, both military and economic.” [24:02]
3. Israeli & Palestinian Peacemakers: Hope Amid Grief
[27:31–44:52]
Guests
- Rami Elhanan, Israeli father whose daughter was killed by a suicide bomber
- Bassem Aramin, Palestinian father whose daughter was shot by Israeli security
- Both founders of the joint peace movement, “Combatants for Peace”
On Meeting Pope Francis
- Rami: “He was very compassionate. He was very empathic. He touched the picture of our girls... He was so nice, so polite, so compassionate that I was really touched by his behavior.” [27:31]
- Bassem: “Yes, I am a religious person... There is something like magic in this human being. He gave you the impression... I know you and exactly, I know your pain.” [28:15]
Transforming Personal Tragedy Into Advocacy
- Rami: "What connects us is far beyond words. We are feeling the same. We don't need words to understand each other." [30:57]
- Bassem: "We don’t need to love each other... Just we need to respect each other and to respect our rights to exist in both sides." [32:33]
- "The happiest day of my life will be when Mr. Bassama Amin will be my emperor, my prime minister, my king, my president, whatever he wants, because he is a human being." – Rami [35:13]
On War, Leadership, and Hope
- Rami: “We are governed by a fascist government who has lost any Jewish value and put us in a place that me personally, I'm ashamed to be [a] Jew at these days vis a vis what is going on in Gaza.” [37:13]
- Bassem: “Even the people of Gaza, the innocent people, they are not Hamas, they don't agree with Hamas, but Netanyahu and his government bomber them every day and every day.” [38:53]
- “We need to say never again for everyone. And my message to my Jewish brothers and sisters around the world... If you like to support Israel to be a moral state, you need to raise your voice against the occupation, against the cruelty and against the violence, and promote peace and justice to everyone.” – Bassem [44:06]
4. Remembering Pope Francis’ Legacy of Peace
[45:55–53:24]
Rabbi Abraham Skorka (close friend of Pope Francis)
On Friendship and Interfaith Dialogue
- Skorka: "The beginning was through jokes about what we call in Argentina for football, the American soccer. But behind the jokes was a message. I opened my heart." [46:05]
- "An historical moment, because he is very close to us." [46:39]
On Church & History
- On opening Vatican archives about WWII: "Let them be opened and let everything be cleared up. Let it be seen. ...The truth has to be the goal." (Reading Pope Francis’ words, [47:12])
On Openness to Debate
- “He has a very open mind in order to analyze all the themes for him. There is not a close theme, even homosexuality, even abortion, to analyze.” [50:14]
On Priestly Celibacy
- “He told me, look, I received this tradition, but I know this is not a dogma, this is just a tradition. And maybe that in the future it could be changed.” [51:27]
Difference Between Francis and Previous Popes
- “He laughs more. ...He must transmit an image of hope through his love... He lives with his mind in heaven and with his feet on earth.” [52:25]
Most Notable Quotes
- Oleksiy Goncharenko: “It's enough to show carrot to this donkey. It's time to show the stick and to use it.” [06:50]
- Christiane Amanpour: “Ukraine doesn’t appear to be losing. It’s not great, the situation on the ground. But do you agree that Ukraine has no cards?” [07:53]
- David O’Sullivan: “The simplest way to peace is for Mr. Putin to say, I’m going to stop waging this war. I don't quite understand why there is a sort of equivalence between Ukraine and Russia. Russia is the aggressor, Ukraine is the victim.” [19:51]
- Rami Elhanan: “We pay the highest price possible. We have the moral authority to all those people. We cannot go on killing each other forever. We must put an end to it." [35:13]
- Bassem Aramin: “When you discover the humanity and the nobility of your enemy is not your enemy anymore. … We want to prove that we can live together." [32:33]
- Rabbi Skorka: “He lives with his mind in heaven and with his feet on earth.” [52:25]
Timestamps for Key Segments
- [01:16] – Ukraine's reaction to U.S. peace proposals
- [04:36] – Oleksiy Goncharenko on Kyiv’s position
- [10:52] – Goncharenko on Zelenskyy-Trump relations
- [12:19] – Consequences if U.S. withdraws support
- [14:54] – NATO membership and alternative security guarantees
- [15:57] – David O’Sullivan on EU sanctions
- [19:33] – Sanctions/lifting debate and Western unity
- [22:16] – Concerns over U.S. administration messaging
- [27:31] – Meeting with Pope Francis: Rami and Bassem
- [32:33] – Transforming pain into reconciliation
- [35:13] – Empathy and moral authority in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict
- [45:55] – Rabbi Skorka on friendship and Pope Francis
- [51:27] – Tradition versus change in the Catholic Church
- [52:25] – The character of Pope Francis
Tone & Takeaways
This episode is deeply analytical, candid, and marked by urgency and empathy. Amanpour pushes for specifics, while guests offer a mix of realism and hope—whether discussing Ukraine’s survival, Western policymaking, or the power of human reconciliation. The grief and courage of peacemakers and the legacy of a pontiff serve as reminders that even in war, bridges can be built.
Recommended for:
Listeners seeking a nuanced understanding of Ukraine's calculations, the stakes for the West, or real stories of peacemaking under the most tragic circumstances.