Inside Hezbollah

Summary

Podcast Summary: Amanpour – "Inside Hezbollah" (June 4, 2026)

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Episode Overview

This episode of Amanpour, guest-hosted by Bianna Golodriga, delivers an in-depth look at the prospects for peace in Lebanon following a new ceasefire agreement between Israel and Lebanon. The centerpiece is Isabel Young’s exclusive, on-the-ground report offering a rarely seen view inside Hezbollah: its fighters, local supporters, and the civilians caught in the crossfire. The episode also explores broader regional dynamics, American diplomatic involvement, and later, other topics such as ICE detention conditions and a major pancreatic cancer drug breakthrough.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Ceasefire & Hezbollah’s Role (02:07–03:23)

• A U.S.-brokered ceasefire between Israel and Lebanon is in question because Hezbollah rejects key terms, insisting on the end of Israel's offensive and withdrawal from Lebanese territory.
  • Quote (Bianna Golodriga, 02:13):
    “Just hours after Israel and Lebanon agreed... Hezbollah said they reject the deal... the fighting goes on, casting fresh doubt over whether this latest diplomatic push can produce any real progress.”
• President Trump is under pressure domestically to limit war powers in Iran.

2. Inside Hezbollah – Isabel Young’s Report

The Arms Pipeline & Secrecy (03:23–05:32)

• Reporter Isabel Young meets a local arms dealer in the Hezbollah-controlled Bekaa Valley.
• The arms trade is secretive; Hezbollah is the primary source of demand, fueled by regional conflict.
• Quote (Narrator/Analyst, 05:32):
  “Driving much of the demand for weapons is Hezbollah, the Iran backed militant group designated a terrorist organization by the US, UK, Canada and others… it remains a potent force in the region.”

Human Toll & Local Support (06:55–07:52)

• Interviews with residents reveal both personal losses (many have lost friends and relatives) and ongoing support for Hezbollah as “defenders” against Israel.
  • Quote (Local Resident, 07:34):
    “But Hezbollah defends us. Defends us and defends of Lebanon.”

Fighter Perspectives (08:03–09:41)

• Rare interview with a Hezbollah fighter, who frames the group’s violence as defensive, despite high casualties and displacement.
  • Questions posed:
    • “Do you think firing towards Israel… is going to create a safer Lebanon?”
    • “It feels like Hezbollah is creating more war rather than peace.”

Civilian Cost & Criticism (10:02–11:48)

• Displaced civilians are interviewed. Many criticize Hezbollah’s entanglement with Iran and the high civilian cost.
  • Notable Quote (Displaced Lebanese Citizen, 11:04):
    “There is a ferocious lion... But you keep on teasing him so he bites you… Let the lion stay in its place. This is what Hezbollah has done.”
  • Message to Hezbollah (11:51):
    “Let us live in peace. If you want to fight for Iran, go to Iran, but let us live in peace.”

Political & Sectarian Risks (12:04–14:29)

• Discussion of the Lebanese government’s limited power to contain or disarm Hezbollah.
• Hezbollah parliamentary voice rejects government disarmament efforts:
  • Hezbollah Member (12:54):
    “This will not happen, I can assure you. We want our army to defend our country. Your army is not strong enough.”
• Debate over whether Hezbollah bears responsibility for the civilian toll.
  • Hezbollah Member (14:29):
    “Absolutely not. The international community bears the responsibility… America bears responsibility.”

Emotional Impact & Child Casualties (15:21–16:46)

• Recounting of the devastating impact on children—hundreds killed, entire neighborhoods destroyed. Reporters observe funeral after funeral.
  • Reporter (16:00):
    “Just absolutely heartbreaking... body after body after body, tiny little bodies… only parts and remnants and pieces of them left.”

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3. Studio Discussion – What Future for Lebanon and Hezbollah? (17:42–22:12)

• Will ceasefire hold? Isabel Young expresses skepticism, noting Hezbollah’s refusal to be “dictated to by the US” and their continued justification as defenders of Lebanon while Israeli troops remain in the country.
  • Isabel Young (18:42):
    “They are absolutely adamant that [disarmament] cannot happen… Hezbollah’s very justification for existing is to defend Lebanon.”
• Discussion of Hezbollah’s dual image: battered militarily, but repositioning as protectors, gaining some domestic legitimacy even as some Lebanese resent the cost.

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4. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the sense of futility and exhaustion among civilians (Displaced Lebanese Citizen, 10:18):
  "I haven't even took a deep breath. Then another war. This is too much. This is too much for the people of Lebanon."
• On political responsibility (Hezbollah Member, 14:29):
  "The international community bears the responsibility. America bears responsibility..."
• On the emotional toll (Reporter, 16:00):
  "Just absolutely heartbreaking... tiny little bodies... only parts and remnants and pieces of them left."
• On Hezbollah’s entrenched position (Isabel Young, 21:09):
  “Hezbollah still does have several strengths… a stockpile of weapons... using and manufacturing drones… targeting the Israeli military... as this war has dragged on... Hezbollah is now starting to... reposition themselves again as the defenders of Lebanon.”

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Timestamps & Segment Breakdown

• [02:07] Ceasefire in jeopardy, US/Iran/Israel/Lebanon diplomatic context
• [03:23] Isabel Young enters Bekaa Valley, arms dealer meeting
• [06:55] Voices of local Lebanese civilians & their losses
• [08:03] Interview with frontline Hezbollah fighter
• [10:02] Displaced civilians criticize Hezbollah’s war
• [12:43] Political constraints on Lebanese government—Hezbollah official perspective
• [15:21] Civilian and child deaths, funeral scenes
• [17:42] Studio Q&A: Isabel Young reflects on prospects for ceasefire, Hezbollah’s public image

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Additional Segments (Briefly Mentioned, Not Episode Focus)

• [24:29] Coverage of ICE detention center abuse and hunger strikes (Jasmine Garst & Erin Reichlin Melnick interviews)
• [38:39] Medical breakthrough: new pill for pancreatic cancer doubles survival (Dr. Mark Goldsmith interview, Hari Sreenivasan hosting)
• [52:50] Remembering Iranian artist and activist Marjan Satrapi

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Conclusion

Inside Hezbollah offers an unflinching look at Lebanon's ongoing conflict, blending rare access to armed actors with powerful testimony from civilians living through the war. The reporting uncovers Hezbollah's persistent military and political influence, the heavy burden paid by ordinary Lebanese, and the fractured hopes for peace as competing narratives, external influences, and trauma shape the fate of Lebanon.

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For Listeners Seeking Key Insights

• The ceasefire is tenuous due to Hezbollah’s rejection and entrenchment; peace in Lebanon likely remains out of reach without resolving wider regional tensions.
• Hezbollah maintains domestic legitimacy among some, but faces growing criticism for its alignment with Iran and the high civilian death toll.
• The war’s human cost is staggering—over a million displaced, thousands dead, including hundreds of children.
• The Lebanese government's inability to rein in Hezbollah stems from sectarian fears, social reliance on Hezbollah services, and inadequate military strength.
• External actors, including the U.S. and Iran, play significant roles in both escalation and attempted conflict resolution.

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Notable Quotes Index

• On civilian casualties: “Just absolutely heartbreaking... tiny little bodies...” – Reporter ([16:00])
• On responsibility for war: “America bears responsibility... the international community bears the responsibility...” – Hezbollah Member ([14:29])
• On exhaustion among Lebanese people: “This is too much. This is too much for the people of Lebanon.” – Displaced Lebanese Citizen ([10:18])
• On Hezbollah’s intent to remain armed: “We want our army to defend our country. Your army is not strong enough.” – Hezbollah Member ([12:54])
• On growing resentment toward Hezbollah among civilians: “If you want to fight for Iran, go to Iran, but let us live in peace.” – Displaced Lebanese Citizen ([11:51])

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This summary highlights the key revelations, emotional power, and complexity of the “Inside Hezbollah” episode—vital listening for anyone seeking to understand the present and future of Lebanon’s unresolved conflict.

Transcript

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[Bianna Golodriga]

Hello everyone and welcome to Amman 4. Here's what's coming up.

[News Anchor]

As a result of U. S led negotiations, Israel and Lebanon agree to the implementation of a ceasefire.

[Host/Interviewer]

But without the backing of Hezbollah, can peace come to Lebanon? Isabel Young offers a rare glimpse into the militant group in a special report.

[Reporter/Interviewer]

You've seen a lot of fighters die. How does that make you feel?

[Host/Interviewer]

Then? Protesters and officials demand action amid concerns about conditions inside an ICE facility. I speak to NPR correspondent Jasmine Gorst and Aaron Reichlin Melnick from the American Immigration Council.

[Co-Host/Commentator]

Also ahead, it's possible through bold innovation and scientific risk taking to revolutionize the treatment for patients living with these common and often difficult to treat cancers.

[Host/Interviewer]

A medical breakthrough that could change the lives of millions. How an experimental pill is offering new hope against the world's deadliest cancer. CEO of the company behind it, Dr. Mark Goldsmith, joins Hari Srinivasan to discuss the long journey that led to this moment.

[Bianna Golodriga]

Welcome to the program, everyone. I'm Bianna Golodriga in New York sitting in for Christian Amanpour. A step forward for diplomacy followed by an immediate step back. Jean Just hours after Israel and Lebanon agreed to a U S brokered cease fire, the leaders of Hezbollah said that they reject the deal. The terms included a complete cessation of Hezbollah fire and the removal of their operatives from southern Lebanon. But the Iran backed militant group insists that any truce must also require the end of Israel's offensive and the withdrawal of their forces. So for now, the fighting goes on, casting fresh doubt over whether this latest diplomatic push can produce any real progress. It is the fourth cease fire announcement in just seven weeks and the US Seeks to clear a major hurdle on the path to a broader agreement to end the war with Iran. And for President Trump, the pressure is on. After the House of Representatives backed a resolution to rein in his war powers, his war powers in Iran. So what will it take to get Hezbollah on board? For more than four decades, the group has faced repeated attempts to weaken its power, yet it remains a potent force in the region. Correspondent Isabel Young gained RA access inside Lebanon to find out why. Here's her report.

[Field Reporter]

So we're here in the Bekkar Valley where Hezbollah still have a very tight

[Reporter/Interviewer]

grip on control after months of trying. We've managed to persuade a man who we believe is an arms dealer providing these weapons to Hezbollah to meet with us.

[Field Reporter]

Follow him.

[Co-Host/Commentator]

Follow, follow, follow, follow him.

[Reporter/Interviewer]

That's the car? Yeah, yeah, seems

[Hezbollah Member]

so.

[Reporter/Interviewer]

We're now just going off a dirt track. You can see a building just over here has been struck by an airstrike. Let's put the cameras down.

[Co-Host/Commentator]

What do you say?

[News Anchor]

You think this is the house?

[Narrator/Analyst]

We were asked to put our cameras down and not to reveal this location or the identity of this arms dealer who says he's a target for the Israeli military as they try to stop the flow of weapons entering Lebanon.

[Reporter/Interviewer]

What is this? It's quite a lot of weapons you have here.

[Co-Host/Commentator]

Btc, rbg,

[Reporter/Interviewer]

mg. Who is it you're selling these weapons to? I mean, if you're selling to people in the Bekkar Valley, I mean, could be working for Hezbollah, right? You think that these weapons are needed to defend themselves against Israel. And it never keeps you up at night. The, these weapons are obviously used to kill people. I mean there is obviously a war going on in this country right now. You're not worried that these weapons are helping to fuel that war?

[Narrator/Analyst]

Driving much of the demand for weapons is Hezbollah, the Iran backed militant group designated a terrorist organization by the us, uk, Canada and others. Hezbollah is an incredibly secret, secretive group, but we wanted to understand how they're still standing and what they're fighting for. After months of working with contacts on the ground, we gained exclusive access to key parts of the group and to those most affected by the war. Hezbollah struck Israel in solidarity with the Hamas October 7th attack triggering a massive Israeli bombardment across Lebanon, even since the November 2024 ceasefire, accusing Hezbollah of failing to withdraw from the border areas. In March, Hezbollah fired rockets on Israel after Israel and the US attacked Iran. This sparked a large scale ground invasion, displacing over a million people and killing more than 3,000. According to the Lebanese government, Hezbollah's fight could be existential. Under pressure from the us, the Lebanese government has been trying to disarm the group. But Israel's offensive has given bullet new zeal and it has vowed to fight on despite heavy losses.

[Local Resident]

This is my friend. His name, he's 2007. This his sister and this his sister. This is grandfather and this is mother.

[Reporter/Interviewer]

You know a lot of people who have died in here.

[Local Resident]

I know my Another friend is there.

[Reporter/Interviewer]

When did he die from?

[Local Resident]

Three years, I think.

[Reporter/Interviewer]

Was he a fighter?

[Local Resident]

Yes, he's a fighter.

[Narrator/Analyst]

Muhammad from the Bekar Valley says he's not a member of Hezbollah, but he and many others here see the group as their best protection from Israeli aggression.

[Reporter/Interviewer]

This was your cousin?

[Local Resident]

Yes.

[Reporter/Interviewer]

And he was fighting for Hezbollah?

[Local Resident]

Yes. But Hezbollah defends us. Defends us and defends of Lebanon.

[Reporter/Interviewer]

Does everyone here support Hezbollah?

[Narrator/Analyst]

Perhaps Hezbollah's greatest strengths are the thousands of fighters willing to sacrifice their lives for the group. They rarely give interviews to Western media.

[Reporter/Interviewer]

We have managed to secure a meeting with a member of Hezbollah who's been fighting in the south of Lebanon for the. And he's agreed to meet us in a very remote location which we're heading towards right now.

[Field Reporter]

Assalamualaikum.

[Co-Host/Commentator]

Why did you join Hezbollah?

[Reporter/Interviewer]

You've seen a lot of fighters die. How does that make you feel? Do you think that firing towards Israel and Israeli troops is going to create a safer Lebanon? I mean, surely that puts Lebanese people at more risk, knowing what the Israelis will hit back with. But I guess it doesn't feel like that to a lot of people. It feels like Hezbollah is, you know, triggering and creating more war rather than peace.

[Narrator/Analyst]

Not everyone agrees. Recent polls suggest that while most Lebanese view Israel as an enemy, even more are critical of Iranian involvement in Lebanon. Among those forced to flee their home is Mona Jahami, a Shia Muslim schoolteacher from the southern city of Tiya.

[Reporter/Interviewer]

So many displaced people across the whole of Lebanon, it's crazy.

[Displaced Lebanese Citizen]

It's the most miserable displacement ever that happened in Lebanon.

[Reporter/Interviewer]

This is an Israeli drone overhead.

[Displaced Lebanese Citizen]

I can't see it, but we hear it.

[Reporter/Interviewer]

We can hear it.

[Displaced Lebanese Citizen]

We could have been better without getting involved in this war. What the hell did we have do to. To do put ourselves in the middle of hell? In 2024, my house was almost devastated. It took me a year to reconstruct it, to redo everything. I haven't even took a deep breath. Then another war. This is too much. This is too much for the people of Lebanon.

[Field Reporter]

You know, Israel are the ones who

[Reporter/Interviewer]

have displaced people, destroyed entire neighborhoods, killed thousands of people.

[Displaced Lebanese Citizen]

We know that Israel is a very hostile and aggressive country, and it is highly and technologically armed. Nobody has doubts about this. Take this example. There is a ferocious lion. I tell you, keep your hand away from the lion. He might bite you. He will bite you, okay? But you keep on teasing him so he bites you. And more than that, you release the lion against everyone around you, okay? This is what Hezbollah has done. Let the lion stay in its place.

[Reporter/Interviewer]

What is your message to the Hezbollah leaders?

[Displaced Lebanese Citizen]

Let us live in peace. If you want to fight for Iran, go to Iran, but let us live in peace.

[Narrator/Analyst]

Lebanon's government has tried to contain Hezbollah and to stop it from attacking Israel, but its ability to do that is limited. Many fear that a direct confrontation with Hezbollah risks igniting sectarian strife and even civil war. For decades, Hezbollah has stepped in where the state has failed, providing healthcare, social services, security. Hezbollah officials like Ibrahim Mousawi even hold seats in parliament.

[Reporter/Interviewer]

The US and Israel want Hezbollah disarmed. The Lebanese government itself also wants Hezbollah disarmed. What would happen if the Lebanese government, the Lebanese military, tried to do that?

[Hezbollah Member]

This will not happen, I can assure you. We want our army to defend our country. Your army is not strong enough.

[Reporter/Interviewer]

Hezbollah decided to enter this war on March 2nd. You know, you knew before starting this war that the Israeli response would be huge, that thousands of people were likely to die, which they have. What made you decide that that level of human suffering which we've witnessed over the last few months was worth it?

[Hezbollah Member]

I don't want to go into the philosophy of life and death here. The Israelis continue to carry aggression. So there was one point when we have to respond to all of these aggressions. When the Israeli American war again, they started, the war against Iran, we felt this is a proper window to respond.

[Reporter/Interviewer]

Hezbollah strikes have killed several people in Israel. They've caused some civilian harm. They've also been targeting some civilian areas. That has triggered a huge Israeli response. And we've seen thousands of Lebanese people killed. We've seen over a million people displaced.

[Hezbollah Member]

You know, why is this happening?

[Reporter/Interviewer]

Do you take any response?

[Hezbollah Member]

Do you know why I'm going to ask you, do you know, do you

[Reporter/Interviewer]

take any responsibility at all? Do you take actions on March 2nd triggering.

[Hezbollah Member]

Do you take any responsibility? Does your government take any responsibility? Does the American government take responsibility for unleashing the Israeli full mighty power of killing and making genocide? Do they do this? We're defending ourselves.

[Reporter/Interviewer]

I'm asking you about you acted on March 6th 2nd. I'm asking if your actions on March the 2nd bear any responsibility for thousands of people killed, including hundreds of children.

[Hezbollah Member]

Absolutely not. The international community bears the responsibility. America bears responsibility. When Trump is capable to restrain the Israelis, the criminals. I believe the American administration hold the first and exclusively the responsibility for all of the killings that happened.

[Reporter/Interviewer]

But apart from appeasing Iran, what else has this war actually achieved?

[Marjan Satrapi]

That's a huge amount of mass humanity.

[Hezbollah Member]

You're using the same equation, but in journalistic terms, that the Israelis are doing what the Israelis are doing. Simply they, if you carry an operation or if you defend yourself against their incursion into a certain village, they destroy the village to tell you what. Never think to defend yourself again. Never think to stand up for the Israeli mighty force. I want to break this cycle.

[Reporter/Interviewer]

What would you say to the parents of the hundreds of kids who have died? What do they die for?

[Hezbollah Member]

I believe this question you should say to Donald Trump and to Benjamin Netanyahu, we are defending our people. Go back to the people who are in the funerals and ask them. You're in Lebanon now and you can see.

[Narrator/Analyst]

Since March, around 200 children have been killed in Lebanon.

[Reporter/Interviewer]

Just absolutely heartbreaking users. Body after body after body, tiny little bodies. These ones having to be carried on the bed because there's just only parts and remnants and pieces of them left.

[Narrator/Analyst]

In just one strike in March, five children were killed. Six year old Yasmina, nine year old Malika, 11 year old Sadiq, 12 year old Zahra and 13 year old Zeinab.

[Reporter/Interviewer]

These kids obviously have been out of school since the beginning of the war. And this group now is trying to do some activities with them, try to have some semblance of normalcy in their lives, which have obviously been completely disrupted.

[Narrator/Analyst]

As the Trump administration tries to rein in both sides. The people of Lebanon are trapped between a die hard militant force backed by a newly emboldened Iran and the Israeli military waging a brutal war.

[Reporter/Interviewer]

What would you say to the people who have power over this war right now.

[Bianna Golodriga]

With no ceasefire in sight? Now, it's ordinary Lebanese citizens who are paying the highest price price. So what will it take to bring the fighting to an end? And is there anything the Lebanese government can do to rein in Hezbollah's grip on power? Let's bring back in Isabel Young joining the show from London. First of all, just such an important and moving piece there, Isabel.

[Isabel Young]

Thank you so much for all the

[Bianna Golodriga]

work that you did and for taking the time to speak with so many there on the ground.

[Isabel Young]

Those who are fighting for Hezbollah, those who are caught in the middle of it all.

[Bianna Golodriga]

And then of course, course, the youngest victims, obviously the children. This is, as we noted, the fourth ceasefire that's being discussed now in some seven weeks time.

[Isabel Young]

I'm just wondering, given all of your time there speaking with those civilians and

[Bianna Golodriga]

those Hezbollah members, is there a sense

[Isabel Young]

that this time could be a final?

[Field Reporter]

I mean, I think it's extremely difficult. You know, this is the third time in just, in the last couple of years that we've seen an attempted deal between these two countries back in 2024, earlier this year and of course now. And I mean, obviously the sticking point here is Hezbollah. I mean, we have seen that for this deal to actually happen and for a ceasefire to actually be implemented, then, you know, both sides would obviously have to stop firing at each other. Hezbollah would have to withdraw from certain areas of the south and they'd also have to give up their arms. And you know, as you saw, we spoke to various members of Hezbollah throughout our time in Lebanon and they are absolutely adamant that that cannot happen and that they will not be dictated to by the us. And you've got to remember that, you know, Hezbollah's very justification for existing is to defend Lebanon and they see themselves as the protectors of Lebanese people. And you know, as we've seen the Israeli military occupy southern Lebanon since March, it's very, very difficult to imagine Hezbollah actually laying down their arms whilst Israeli troops remain in their country.

[Bianna Golodriga]

Hezbollah as an organization is deemed by most Western countries as a terrorist organization. It is deeply ingrained in Lebanon, in society there and its political system as well. And as you note, per polling, it

[Isabel Young]

does seem that something has changed.

[Bianna Golodriga]

The tide has turned, especially with Lebanon's,

[Isabel Young]

with Hezbollah's decision to enter this war now between Israel, the United States and Iran. It was fascinating to hear that schoolteacher tell you that if these fighters want to go fight for Iran, they should go to Iran. Does that give, in your view, the Lebanese government more power, more opportunity to stand up to Hezbollah as they've been claiming they have a mandate to do now, to de weapon, to make sure that they de arm and to sign potential cease fire deals with Israel.

[Field Reporter]

I mean, it's difficult to know. Obviously we have seen Hezbollah take a real battering over the last few years in 2024 and again obviously this year he, you know, the Israeli military have gone after Hezbollah key infrastructure. They've, as you saw in our piece, they've killed many fighters. They've also gone after key commanders. In fact, we were supposed to meet

[Reporter/Interviewer]

with one of them.

[Field Reporter]

But Hezbollah was so concerned that the Israelis would find out the location of some of the few remaining commanders that we weren't able to. But you know, Hezbollah still does have several strengths. You know, they have access to these weapons. We know that they still have a stockpile of weapons. We know that they are still smuggling weapons over those borders and that they are using and manufacturing, you know, drones, fiber optic drones that they've been quite effectively, to the surprise of some in Israel, targeting the Israeli military with, you know, domestically, as you as you said that we have seen polls that suggest that, you know, the popularity of Hezbollah is questionable. But I would say that as this war has dragged on, you know, it started out that many people were very resentful of Hezbollah. But experts that we've spoken to would suggest that, you know, Hezbollah is now starting to and has successfully started to reposition themselves again as the defenders of Lebanon.

[Bianna Golodriga]

And that makes things more challenging not only in terms of a ceasefire, but for the Lebanese government itself.

[Isabel Young]

Isabel Young, thank you so much.

[Bianna Golodriga]

Really appreciate your reporting. And stay with cnn. We'll be right back after the break.

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[Michael Ian Black]

Tab I got News for your ears, the podcast. I am your host, Michael Ian Black. His latest thing, you see this yesterday was he finds the peace talks boring, shocking.

[Co-Host/Commentator]

Not my favorite guy, but I gotta

[Canva Commercial Narrator]

be honest with you, I know exactly

[Co-Host/Commentator]

what he's talking about.

[Michael Ian Black]

He's not negotiating. He's not in the room.

[Hezbollah Member]

He's not.

[Co-Host/Commentator]

But how do you think he receives the information?

[Canva Commercial Narrator]

Cause they come in, sir, because they all. Sir, would you like to hear the latest update?

[Bianna Golodriga]

They should make like a comic strip out of it.

[Michael Ian Black]

Have I GOT News for your ears. Check us out on Apple, Amazon Music, wherever you get your podcast. Even better, you can watch the Vodcast on Spotify.

[Bianna Golodriga]

Next. Held without conviction, fed maggot, infested meals with limited access to medical care and no idea when they will be freed. According to many of the 60,000 people currently held in immigration detention across America, this is the reality of daily life. Some are as young as five years old. That's why hundreds of detainees at Delaney Hall Detention center in New Jersey have reportedly been on hunger strike. Outside the facility, protests escalated into clashes with ICE officers using tear gas, tear gas against demonstrators refusing to disperse. Now Senate Republicans are pushing ahead with a package that would provide billions of dollars in new funding for immigration enforcement.

[Isabel Young]

For more on this, I'm joined by

[Bianna Golodriga]

Jasmine Garst, immigration correspondent for npr, and Erin Reichland Melnick, senior fellow at the American Immigration Council.

[Isabel Young]

Welcome Both of you. Jasmine, what do we actually know about the conditions now at Delaney Hall?

[Jasmine Gorst]

I mean, what I can tell you about is what I've been hearing, which is insufficient medical attention for food. Not only. It's not enough to say in bad state. I mean, we've heard reports of food with maggots in it, and again, lack of attention to medical conditions. And I should be clear, you know, I've been reporting on conditions in ICE detention since Trump took office. This is nothing new. This is pretty much what I've been hearing from different detention centers.

[Co-Host/Commentator]

You.

[Jasmine Gorst]

You know, and I've been hearing it from children as young as five years old. And so I would venture to say that it is more often than not that I hear about these pretty horrific conditions while in ICE detention.

[Bianna Golodriga]

And what are conditions like outside of the facility?

[Isabel Young]

We had been reporting on a number of protests that continued to escalate. Newark police were confronting protesters this week. Last night, two protesters were taken into custody. How much concern is there that outside of this detention center, things could turn even more chaotic?

[Jasmine Gorst]

Well, I mean, I think there's been a lot of criticism over, you know, the decision to send state police and, you know, whether or not this could turn into Minneapolis 2.0. I mean, I think people are hearing about these horrific conditions inside, and there's ample concern about it. And, you know, this isn't just, you know, the food is in bad state right now. You know, in ICE detention facilities, we have seen a historic number of deaths. There have been 51 deaths in ICE detention in the last year alone. And that is a number we have never seen before. So these conditions have consequences.

[Isabel Young]

Erin, I want to bring you in here because New York's attorney General has filed a lawsuit against a private company that's operating Delaney hall, that is the GEO Group, and demanding access for health funds. In April, the city of Newark also filed a lawsuit against this same group. Does New Jersey have a legal right to inspect this private facility?

[News Anchor]

Well, this is one of the most contested aspects of this case because legislators and others have been trying to get inside Delaney hall since it opened last year. Year the facility opened with a number of problems. Already. Within its first two months, there were protests inside the facility and a breakout, one of the first ever from an ICE detention facility, as people protested against inadequate food and medical care. Just last year, the federal government says that state governments have no authority to regulate ICE detention centers. And there have been a number of court cases over this. So this is something that we'll have to see play out in Court.

[Isabel Young]

Why do you think the federal government, whether or not this becomes a legally mired question, why do you think the federal government won't just let inspectors in? Now, given all of the headlines and negative press that this has generated, what

[News Anchor]

we've seen this administration do is refuse to back down. In a number of very high profile incidents, the administration has said that absolutely nothing is wrong inside its detention centers. Their official line is, is that people in ICE detention are being treated better than any lawbreaker in human history. And that is not something that will hold up to inspections, which may be a reason that they are trying to keep people out.

[Isabel Young]

Well, here's how ICE has responded on X and let's pull up the graphic if we have it. The facts are the all detainees are provided with three meals a day, clean water, clothing, bedding, shower soap, and toiletries. Illegal aliens also have access to phones to communicate with their family members and lawyers. Certified dietitians evaluate meals. In fact, ICE has higher detention standards than most US Prisons that hold actual US Citizens. Jasmine, do you want to respond to those statements?

[Jasmine Gorst]

Sure. I mean, here's some other facts. The facts also are that there are an unprecedented number of immigrants in detention, around 60,000 consistently. The facts also are that around 70% of those people have no criminal conviction. And immigration lawyers I've spoken to have told me that they believe these conditions in ICE detention are meant to break people into opting for voluntary leave. In other words, that the immigrant themselves pays to be sent away. And you know, we've seen that. We've seen a skyrocketing of people who are essentially tapping out because conditions are so bad. It's been around 90,000 people have asked for voluntary departure in the lastduring this Trump administration. That is seven times what we have seen during the last year of the Biden administration. So conditions are so horrific in these places that, I mean, I've spoken to people who have very intense fears of going back home, who have told me, you know, I think I could be killed if I go back home, and who have still said, you know what? I cannot do another 12 months of this. I cannot do it.

[Bianna Golodriga]

You mentioned the unprecedented statistics here in reality, Jasmine.

[Isabel Young]

Erin, ICE detention centers drew complaints under the Obama and Biden administration's as well. What is the difference this time?

[News Anchor]

Yeah, that's right. You know, at the American Immigration Council, we have filed complaints about conditions inside detention centers for many years, including under the Obama administration, the Trump administration, and even the Biden administration. But we are seeing a scale and pace of detention that is totally unprecedented. Since taking office, the Trump administration expanded detention by over 75%, rising from an average of 40,000 people in custody per day on average at the start of his term, to a peak of over 73,000 people in custody in early January during the height of Operation Metro surge in Minneapolis. And the internal watchdogs and agencies whose job it is to ensure that the standards are followed have been pushed out. The Office of Immigration Detention Ombudsman has been slashed and eliminated entirely. Dhs, is internal civil rights and civil liberties watchdog, has been pushed out. And the message from on high is that if there are abuses in detention, the administration is going to turn a blind eye to it. And that has led to conditions that appear to be far worse than anything we've seen before.

[Isabel Young]

And as we've noted, as you've noted, Jasmine, this extends beyond just Delaney Hall. I mean, you visited some of these other detention centers as well. Can you give us a sense of what you saw and what you heard heard from detainees?

[Jasmine Gorst]

Right, so I've spoken to detainees, I've been speaking to detainees at these facilities since President Trump took office. And I can tell you that this is nothing new. You know, I can tell you stories about people who have very serious medical conditions and who have not been given medical attention. Probably, you know, the one that has stuck most with me as a journalist was a story of a family I interviewed who spent around 320 days at the Dilley Detention center in Texas. And this family, it was a mother, it was two teenagers, a 9 year old and two 5 year old twins. And the conditions they were describing were quite similar. Lack of medical attention, lack of, not just lack of proper nutrition, food with worms. At one point, one of the kids told me about finding a human fingernail in their food. Lack of access to education. And I think just to piggyback on what Erin was saying just now, you know, within this whole process of massive expansion of the tension system, I think it's really important to highlight the amount of money hand over fist profits that are being made off of this. So for example, the facility Delaney in New Jersey, that facility is owned by one of the major contractors, which is Geo Group. Between 2024 and 2025, Geo Group had a 700% profit increase. So when we're talking about this massive expansion and the system that is being built to funnel people, most of whom do not have criminal convictions, into these detention centers, it is important to talk about how much money is being made off of this.

[Bianna Golodriga]

Yeah, and it's also Worth noting that

[Isabel Young]

ICE alone, ICE's budget over the last two years has gone from $10 billion to $58 billion. And just today, the Senate is debating a $70 billion funding bill that would fund ICE and Border Patrol and DHS agencies. That's on top of the $75 billion that was included in last year's big, beautiful bill. Jasmine, Aaron, I don't know which one of you is best to ask this

[Bianna Golodriga]

question, but where is that money going?

[News Anchor]

Well, right now, we are seeing a large portion of this funding go to detention centers, and the Trump administration has reportedly allocated about 75% of the $75 billion it got already. Of that money, 45 billion, is going to immigration detention. They've used a significant portion of that to increase the beds from 40,000 up to 70,000. Though right now we know it's closer to 60,000 as they have quieted down a little bit in the aftermaths of the killings of Renee Goode and Alex Preddy in Operation Metro Surge. But we know right now that they've spent $1 billion already in purchasing commercial warehouses that they fully intend to convert into massive detention centers. And while this plan is getting off the ground a little bit slower than they expected, it seems the administration wants to expand to as many as 24 warehouse detention centers, some that could hold upwards of 8,000 people, which would each make them individually, the largest federal prisons in us in the entire United States system, bigger than any federal prison and bigger than, indeed any state or local prison that exists in the country right now.

[Isabel Young]

And ICE officials continue to describe these detainees as those, the worst of the worst, those who have committed heinous crimes. Erin, your organization actually tracks who ICE is detaining.

[Bianna Golodriga]

Does that match up with their description?

[News Anchor]

It really doesn't. ICE actually publishes some data on who it's detaining, and it breaks down the data between who has no criminal record whatsoever, who has a pending criminal charge for any kind of offense, and who has been convicted of any offense, no matter how small. And what we know is that only about 14% of people that ICE has even arrested have any sort of serious violent offense. And right now, the majority of people being held in detention have no criminal record at all. And indeed, when we look back during the peak of ICE arrests in Minneapolis, 47% of people that ICE was arresting nationwide had never been arrested for any offense. And those who did have some interaction with the criminal justice system, the most common offenses were low level misdemeanors, traffic offenses, and things that certainly don't make Anyone? The, quote, worst of the worst.

[Bianna Golodriga]

Jasmine, you spent time outside Delaney hall,

[Isabel Young]

we should note the upcoming World cup kicking off in just days. You are a 15 minute drive at that point at Delaney hall from where many of these matches, including the finals, will be played. How much concern is there of the role ICE will have during these, this World Cup?

[Jasmine Gorst]

Yeah, I mean, I thought, you know, it just kept coming to mind, you know, that how close Delaney hall is to where the World cup final is going to be played. And it's something that has always been on my mind. Now, ICE officials have said that these games are not going to be places where they're going to be doing roundups. That's not the goal that DHS is going to, to have a presence as it would at any other international major event being held on US Soil, you know, but nevertheless, I mean, I think there is, it's not that I think, I know there is a climate of fear around fans and in certain communities who happen to love soccer, who happen to love football and who, you know, listen, I've spent the last year or so so talking to people who are afraid to go pick up their kids at school, who are afraid to go, you know, to the supermarket. And so why wouldn't they be afraid to go to a soccer match or to a soccer watch party? I think it's very significant that this World cup is happening simultaneously. As you know, we're seeing this.

[Bianna Golodriga]

That is a good point to make.

[Isabel Young]

We'll have to leave the conversation there. Thank you so much for the time.

[Bianna Golodriga]

Jasmine Garst and Erin Reichland Melnick. We appreciate it. We'll be right back. Thank you after this short break. Now to a medical breakthrough that is doubling the survival time for patients with one of the most aggressive forms of cancer. A new pill taken daily to treat pancreatic cancer has shown positive findings in a study with 500 patients. Scientists found the drug reduced the risk of death by 60% compared to chemotherapy. Dr. Mark Goldsmith, the CEO of the Biotech company which funded this development, joins Hari Sreenivasan to discuss the landmark treatment.

[Co-Host/Commentator]

Bianna, thanks.

[Hari Sreenivasan]

Dr. Mark Goldsmith, thanks so much for joining us. You're the CEO of Revolution Medicines. It's a biotech company. According to the American Cancer Society, the five year survival rate for people with pancreatic cancer is about 13% and it's about 3% for where that cancer has already spread to other parts of the body. And so before I guess we get into what is kind of interesting and important about your medicine, tell us a little bit about why pancreatic cancer is so difficult to beat.

[Co-Host/Commentator]

Thank you, Hari. It's really a pleasure to be on with you. This is a very important moment in for patients who are living with cancers caused by something called ras proteins. They're the most common cause of human cancers. The results that we're talking about today are such significance that I think they really do demonstrate that it's possible, through bold innovation and scientific risk taking, to revolutionize the treatment for patients living with these common and often difficult to treat cancers. Pancreatic cancer is one of those. Most patients, when they are diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, already have relatively advanced disease, and that makes it very difficult to try to unwind. And really, the only treatments, for the most part, that we've had for most patients with pancreatic cancer, Particularly those with metastatic pancreatic cancer, is standard chemotherapy. And it has just not performed at the level that any patient or their family or physician would like. And so there's been an enormous push to try to find new ways to tackle the underlying causes of the cancer, not just to try to use chemicals to kill tumors.

[Hari Sreenivasan]

So what does this protein do to a healthy cell? And I guess what does your medicine do to that protein?

[Co-Host/Commentator]

Yes, ras proteins are absolutely essential to every normal cell in the human body. They act as a switch. They control normal cell growth. So we're happy and feeling good when ras proteins are doing what they should do. Unfortunately, in 20 to 30% of human cancers, that switch can get stuck in the on position, Meaning that a genetic change in the gene encoding for a ras protein causes the ras protein to stay in the on position and to have trouble toggling to off. And as a result, it's sending signals within the cell to grow and then to grow uncontrollably, and that can lead to a malignancy. Pancreatic cancer is one disease which is almost entirely caused by ras proteins. Nearly everybody who has pancreatic cancer has altered ras proteins within the tumor, and therefore, trying to target those ras proteins seems like the most logical way to go about things. But that's been difficult over many decades.

[Hari Sreenivasan]

Okay, so how did your medicine work, or what is the sort of key here? Because if these proteins are important for all of our healthy cells, how do you target the ones, just the ones that are defective, and keep pushing this on switch instead of going on and off?

[Co-Host/Commentator]

Yes, that's a really important and subtle scientific topic that you're raising. Well, first, it's been a challenge to bind a small molecule to any ras protein, and for decades, since the 1980s, when RAs were identified as the first human cancer causing genes and proteins, it's been very difficult to drug these RAS proteins. In the last 10 to 15, 15 years, we've seen some progress in that regard. We found a way, standing on the shoulders of many others who came before us, to design molecules that can essentially glue onto sort of like Velcro, bind onto the surface of a ras protein and attach it to another protein that smothers it and keeps it from functioning within the cell. Now, you've asked about, can we direct that specifically only to the mutant form or the genetically altered form that drives cancer? And it is possible to do that. We have a number of molecules like that in our pipeline that are very specific for the mutant. The reason that Diraxon Rasib, the investigational drug that might have led to this discussion today, the reason that that molecule is so different from everything else is it not only uses this glue mechanism, but it binds to the active or on form very selectively. It doesn't bind to the off form. So it's specifically going after the oncogenic or active form that's found in the tumors. It does attack or bind or target essentially all forms of ras, including the normal RAS proteins. We now know from the results of the Rasalute 302 Phase 3 clinical trial that were just read out at ASCO. This was a global randomized trial of 500 patients who received either duraxon Rasib or standard of care chemotherapy. That we saw significant, unprecedented improvements across many different measures that are typically used in studies of cancer drugs. That included a 60% reduction in the risk of death, which is of course, the most important thing that we go after, but similar reductions across a variety of different measures. In fact, those same patients actually reported that they saw stabilization of their quality of life and preservation of that quality of life greater than did those who received chemotherapy. So longer life preserved quality of life. It indicates that it is possible to do that.

[Hari Sreenivasan]

In a clinical trial with about 500 patients, your medicine nearly doubled the lifespan. Compared to someone who was just taking chemotherapy, that average was about 6.7 months. And with your medicine it went up to 13.2 months. It also reduced the risk of death by 60% in patients that were taking your medicine versus just chemotherapy. What is that quality of life like? What is this doing that's allowing them, I don't know, something better than what the standard of care is today?

[Co-Host/Commentator]

Well, two limitations of standard of care chemotherapy you touched on. One is that it's not as Effective as it needs to be, it often provides very short increments in survival and the experience of taking chemotherapy, going to an infusion center regularly, the severe side effects, often hospitalization, and some patients even die while they're receiving chemotherapy. We need to address both of those, and we believe duraxon Racib does that, based on the results that we just reported. And we know that patients receiving Duraxon Rasib in general have been able to take that drug continuously. Sometimes they require short breaks, short vacations, many holidays from the drug, but for the most part, have been able to take it and continue benefiting from its suppression of the RAS protein that's causing cancer. We know, in addition to that survey that patients take during the course of the Raslut 302 trial, we also know anecdotally, directly from patients, from many physicians who have experienced treating a patient with duraxon Rasib, that it is not uncommon for patients within a fairly short period of time to feel better and for their life to be improved to the point where they can actually experience life, be with their family, take care of some things that they'd very much like to take care of while they're also having a longer life. But I also want to acknowledge something really important here, Hari. For the most part, Draxan Rasib doesn't cure most people's cancers. So we have more work to do, and we continue to design to improve upon Diraxon Rasib in a variety of different ways and to bring new molecules to the clinic with the hope that we will convert pancreatic cancer and other cancers caused by RAS into more chronically managed diseases and eventually into true cures.

[Hari Sreenivasan]

So, Doctor, if these RAs mutations show up in colorectal cancers, in small cell lung cancers, and they account for almost a third or more of the deaths, can this medicine be used in those other cancers as well?

[Co-Host/Commentator]

Yeah, that's a great point. More than 90% of pancreatic cancers caused by a RAS protein, 50% of colorectal cancer is caused by a ras protein, and 30% of non small cell lung cancer. And that's just the short list of the most common and deadly cancers that can be caused by ras. So you're right, and we are very interested in and very active in studying Draxon Rasib in patients with these other tumor types. In fact, we have reported data on Duraxon Rasib in lung cancer in patients with a RAS cancer driver, encouraging early data, and we're currently running a global phase three trial in non small cell lung Cancer in those patients who carrier RAS variants that's causing their tumor. We are also studying colorectal cancer, and we have, as I alluded to earlier, a deep pipeline of molecules based on this same technology, based on this same strategy, where we've benefited from a virtuous cycle of observation in the clinic, scientific innovation in the laboratory, more observation in the clinic, improved innovation in the laboratory. And this is something we're deeply committed to for the long term, to continue trying to address these tumors on behalf of patients.

[Hari Sreenivasan]

You're talking about drug development in general, taking anywhere from, I don't know, let's say average, a dozen years. And most people, that's part of the hopelessness that they feel that even if you've got something in the lab today, it's going to take forever by the time that it can actually impact my life. So in this particular case, this is a very truncated timeline. How did that happen?

[Co-Host/Commentator]

Yeah, we first brought duraxon Rasib into a clinical study in 2022, and here we are in 2026, and we've come completed what should be, appears to be the definitive study that demonstrates this benefit in pancreatic cancer. And we are actively working to bring the information from that trial to the FDA so that they can review it and make a decision about whether it should be made more widely available through an approval. That's a very short period of time. Once the early results were seen in 2023, patients were clamoring to get access to duraxon Rasib because they smelled what we smelled, which is a real opportunity here to make a difference. Duraxon Rasib, we hope, will be made available broadly, that will be subject to the review process that we need to go through with the fda. In the meantime, we have opened an expanded access program that allows physicians who are caring for patients with pancreatic cancer to apply for drug on behalf of their patients even before it is approved by the fda. And the FDA has endorsed this expanded access program, and we're now shipping drug to doctors on behalf of their patients. Secondly, receiving Dirax on Rasib may buy people time to allow for additional innovation. And that's already been occurring, that patients now see real opportunity to continue their lives. We hope to have lives that are satisfying to them and to their families, but also hope that the next generation of molecules will come along, and we're pushing those as fast as we can.

[Hari Sreenivasan]

We have this evidence that there's a class and a category of medicines that will actually be really helpful to a very large swath of people and the cost is a significant hurdle. So here you are, you've spent the time, the resources, the money in developing this drug, and you want to increase access. You want to make sure that anybody with pancreatic cancer or any of the other cancers it works on gets access to it. How do you bake that into the process?

[Co-Host/Commentator]

Well, you're right, it's very expensive to develop drugs. We've spent, even as a small biotech company, we've spent billions of dollars already, even before we had the kind of evidence that we have with the Rasalu 302 trial. And we're currently running or about to initiate another seven of these phase three trials, which are extraordinarily expensive. So it does cost a lot of money to do this. That's just inherent in providing good compliance, safe management of patients during the course of a clinical trial. And it requires large trials that take sometimes a couple of years to do. That investment has to be recouped since that capital comes from, comes from investors. And that has something to do with pricing. I think the other aspect of it is that drugs that have great effects probably deserve to be priced at a higher price point than drugs that, that don't. And that's built into the system. The payers, including the federal government, use the outcomes of the clinical trials as one of the ways in which they decide what's an appropriate price and appropriate trade off. But the question you're asking is a very big one that has to do with how do we pay for health care in general? Drugs are a relatively small component of the overall cost of medical care. Hospitalizations, physician time, infusion centers. There are many, many things that contribute to that high cost of medicine. And we'll do our best to deliver the drug on behalf of patients and make it possible even for those who can't afford it, through various mechanisms that are available.

[Hari Sreenivasan]

CEO of Revolution Medicine is Dr. Mark Goldsmith. Thanks so much for your time.

[Co-Host/Commentator]

Thank you, Hari.

[Bianna Golodriga]

And finally, we remember Iranian artist and activist Marjan Satrapi, who has died at the age of 56. A powerful voice who brought the story of her homeland struggles to a global audience. Satrapee was best known for her acclaim acclaimed graphic novel and film Persepolis. She was a vocal critic of the Iranian regime and a long standing women's rights campaigner, including during the 2022 Women Life Freedom movement. She left Iran for good in 1994, but remained deeply connected to its people and culture throughout her life. In 2020, she spoke to Christiane about her own experience as a refugee and what it means to live with loss and compassion.

[Marjan Satrapi]

Nobody leaves their own country because they think it's fun. Everybody loves the place they are born. They love the food they eat. They love the geography of the place that they are. If we go there is because we don't have any choice. And the moment that people, they have this empathy and the compassion to understand that and see in front of them not an abstract notion of the migrant, but a human being who is in need of freedom and in need just to survive, then probably we have made a step forward. But I think 2020 is kind of really late to start thinking about this thing. It should have been long time ago.

[Bianna Golodriga]

An important life lost far too soon. May she rest in peace. That is it for now. Please remember, you can always catch us online on our website and all over social media. Thanks so much for watching. Goodbye from New York.

[Hari Sreenivasan]

From the descendants of history makers involved in the Louisiana Purchase to the Lewis and Clark expedition. Discover the untold stories of American expansion in the CNN original series, this Land, premiering June 7th on CNN.

[Anderson Cooper]

Hey, I'm Anderson Cooper. On my podcast, All There Is, we explore grief and loss in all its complexities. As Ken Burns said on an earlier podcast, the half life of grief is endless. Mariska Hargitay knows that very well. Jane Mansfield was killed in a car crash in 1967. Mariska was in the car with her. After decades spent coming to terms with her past and wanting to learn more about the mother she doesn't remember, Mariska has made a remarkable documentary called My Mom Jane.

[Bianna Golodriga]

Our vulnerability is our greatest strength and our greatest connector. And so in telling the story, I don't feel vulnerable. I feel free. We all have a story, and you never know what somebody else carries.

[Anderson Cooper]

Talking grief, building community. That's what the podcast is all about. This is all there is. Listen and follow wherever you get your podcasts.