Amanpour – "Is Trump Selling Out Ukraine?"

CNN Podcasts | November 28, 2025
Host: Christiane Amanpour
Guests: John Kerry (former US Secretary of State), Annie Leibovitz (photographer), Wes Anderson (film director)

Overview

This episode of Amanpour explores urgent questions in global affairs, from President Trump’s controversial Ukraine peace proposals and their implications for international diplomacy, to the ongoing conflicts in the Middle East and the latest milestones (and setbacks) in the global fight against climate change. The show features in-depth interviews with former US Secretary of State John Kerry, legendary photographer Annie Leibovitz discussing her new book, and acclaimed director Wes Anderson reflecting on his films and creative process.

Main Segment: Is Trump Selling Out Ukraine?

Interview with John Kerry
Timestamps: [01:17]–[21:07]

Key Discussion Points and Insights

Trump’s "Peace Plan" and Accusations of Appeasement

• Amanpour sets the stage by outlining how leaked details of Trump’s latest Ukrainian "peace plan" have alarmed diplomats, especially as it appears to favor Russian demands ([02:24]).
• Revelations include US envoys allegedly coaching Russian counterparts to secure better terms from President Trump ([02:24]).

John Kerry on Diplomatic Norms and US Policy toward Russia

• Amanpour: "Is it normal for the US to approach negotiations like this?" ([03:47])
• Kerry draws a contrast between typical statecraft and Trump’s methods:

  "I think just plunking something down and giving somebody sort of an ultimatum—‘you have to decide this by Thursday’—not a great way to begin." ([04:09])

• He argues robust peace requires both pressure and negotiation, noting:

  "President Putin has a set of very clear objectives...In any kind of treaty, both sides will not get everything." ([04:52])

• Kerry voices concern over the lack of sanctions and pressure on Russia:

  "The absence of some of the sanctions which could have been put in place...has changed what you can put on the table and then negotiate about." ([07:07])

• He commends Europe's role:

  "Europe has also stepped up here in a very significant way and I think deserves enormous credit." ([07:54])

Looking Back: Crimea, Sanctions, and Missed Opportunities

• Amanpour references Jens Stoltenberg's regrets, asking Kerry if the West should have imposed harsher sanctions after Crimea ([08:11]).
• Kerry responds reflectively:

  "It's so easy to sit here and see a situation where a number of years later, something happens and you say, 'Oh, gosh, why didn't we do this or that then?'...Sanctions were immediately put in place, they were tough sanctions, [but] there was not a sense that the invasion [of Ukraine] was imminent." ([08:51])

• He emphasizes the tightrope between pressure and escalation:

  "...How do you put pressure but not start World War III?" ([09:22])

The Dilemma of Peace

• Kerry on the risks of "peace at any cost":

  "No. And you have to be certain that the long-term interests for real peace that could be held onto may take a little longer and may take a little more pain." ([10:31])

• Expresses bipartisan concern in US Congress over Trump’s direction:

  "That’s why I think members of the United States Senate, Republican and Democrat, are increasingly concerned about the direction this may be taking." ([10:38])

On Receiving UK Honor for Climate Work

• Amanpour congratulates Kerry on his honor from King Charles for climate diplomacy ([11:18]).
• Kerry reflects:

  "It was very, very, very meaningful, very special moment at Buckingham Palace with my family…What’s more important than ever now is folks who are willing to still stand up and say...this is not a matter of politics...it’s a law of physics." ([11:45])

• He praises King Charles’ environmental vision.

COP30, Climate Transition, and US Absence

• Amanpour questions US effectiveness at COP30 and the absence of stronger anti-fossil fuel commitments ([12:54]).
• Kerry admits disappointment at the summit’s limited outcome but notes:

  "...The transition now is moving to a point where the majority of the electricity that is new coming in the world, 85% is renewable." ([15:47])

• On Trump’s climate denial:

  “Only one person in the world has pulled out of Paris, and that’s President Trump...the hoax is in saying to people that it is a hoax.” ([13:32])

Segment: Portraits of Women & the Gaze

Interview with Annie Leibovitz
Timestamps: [22:36]–[41:17]

Key Discussion Points and Insights

Women, Visibility, and Storytelling

• Amanpour and Leibovitz discuss the second volume of her book "Women," celebrating female trailblazers ([22:36]).
• Leibovitz reflects on representation:

  "We don’t have enough stories as women. We need to see ourselves." ([23:39])

• They highlight Susan Sontag's assertion:

  "Portraits of women featured their beauty, portraits of men, their character." ([23:58])

• Leibovitz’s empathy for her subjects is illustrated in Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie’s description of her postpartum shoot:

  "[Annie's] sanguine reaction was a relief. There was no dismissiveness, no judgment." ([24:25])

Gloria Steinem’s Perspective (Read by Leibovitz)

• Steinem’s remarks emphasize progress through visibility, even if accompanied by condescension:

  "How we are seen, no doubt, changes how we see ourselves...But being condescended to is progress. Previously, we were just ignored." (Leibovitz quoting Steinem, [26:05])

Reflections on Power, Doubt, and Role Models

• Amanpour praises Leibovitz’s cultural impact; Leibovitz demurs, admitting insecurity:

  "You are the tallest and most authoritative, unsure person that I’ve ever seen." (as described by Steinem; [27:01])

• Leibovitz reflects on self-doubt and how it’s now reframed as a source of creative questioning ([27:38]).

On Iconic Portraits: Rihanna, Michelle Obama, John & Yoko

• Amanpour references Leibovitz’s famous portrait of Rihanna, linking it to her earlier Demi Moore cover:

  "She took that Demi Moore picture and blew it out of the water." ([28:35])

• Leibovitz describes working with Michelle Obama and the evolution of their shoot ([29:44]).
• The emotional resonance of her most famous image—the John Lennon/Yoko Ono Polaroid:

  "It turns from a story of love to a goodbye...That’s interesting about photography how over time, the stories sort of change." ([33:45]) "I promised John that they would both be on the cover. So he did. He changed it..." ([37:38])

Artistic Process and Legacy

• Leibovitz explains her approach comes from reportage, not traditional portraiture; she advocates empathy, but maintains professional distance ([30:41]).
• On photographing all types of subjects:

  "I do have a hard time when I have to photograph someone I don’t necessarily like. But as a portrait photographer, you should be able to photograph everybody." ([38:01])

Segment: The Art of Filmmaking

Interview with Wes Anderson
Timestamps: [41:51]–[54:43]

Key Discussion Points and Insights

"Andersonian" Style and Creative Identity

• Amanpour discusses how Anderson’s visual aesthetic has become instantly recognizable:

  "Every time I release a trailer for the next one, the first thing I hear is, you could tell it was me in the first 10 seconds. And I’ve had to accept that that is simply true." ([42:40])

Recurrent Characters and the Joy of Collaboration

• Anderson likens his recurring cast to a theatre troupe:

  "I liked the idea of having a sort of stock company, like a theater troupe...I love the start of a movie being a kind of reunion." ([44:08])

Exploring Family, Death, and Inheritance in "The Phoenician Scheme"

• The new film centers on a complicated father-daughter relationship ([45:43]):

  "I thought this movie, I have to dedicate it to Fouad because he’s the inspiration." (Anderson, on dedicating the film to his late father-in-law; [52:01])

• On mortality and loss:

  "I think...yes. I’m 56 and the number of friends who’ve died in the last 15 years, it’s just they’re one after another and including both parents. So it’s on my mind." ([51:29])

Animation’s Influence on Anderson’s Craft

• Discusses how making "Fantastic Mr. Fox" influenced his approach to live action:

  "It changed my way of working in live action too, because I kind of saw how I could make, I think, fewer mistakes, how I could be a little more meticulously prepared for a movie shoot." ([53:21])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• John Kerry on pressure and peace:

  "You have to make it crystal clear he thinks he’s going to win. He thinks he is winning. And that equation has to be changed if you’re going to get the full measure of what you want." ([10:15])

• Leibovitz quoting Steinem:

  "Being condescended to is progress. Previously, we were just ignored." ([26:05])

• Wes Anderson on his films’ recognizability:

  "I can’t change my handwriting. It’s just the way it comes out...I accept that I have a certain kind of voice that happens to be quickly identifiable." ([43:13])

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:17] – Amanpour’s program opening
• [03:47] – John Kerry on US-Ukraine diplomacy
• [08:11] – Crimea, sanctions, Stoltenberg’s regrets
• [11:18] – Kerry receives climate honor from King Charles
• [12:54] – COP30 fallout and US leadership
• [22:36] – Annie Leibovitz discusses "Women: Volume 2"
• [26:05] – Gloria Steinem’s essay (read by Leibovitz)
• [33:43] – The John Lennon/Yoko Ono cover story
• [41:51] – Wes Anderson: visual style, process, "The Phoenician Scheme"
• [43:13] – Anderson on creative identity
• [51:29] – Anderson on mortality and inspiration

Tone and Language

• The episode maintains a thoughtful and persistent journalistic tone, with Amanpour’s incisive questions pushing guests for depth and honesty.
• Kerry is measured, occasionally passionate, and candid about both past mistakes and current geopolitics.
• Leibovitz is humble, reflective, and candid about self-doubt and the power of the photographic gaze.
• Anderson is self-effacing, whimsical, and philosophical about art and storytelling.

Summary

This episode provides crucial insight into the world’s biggest crises—from the dangers of hasty diplomacy and the lessons of past failures (Ukraine, Crimea, Gaza), to the social power of visibility (Leibovitz’s portraiture), to art’s ability to process grief and identity (Anderson’s films). It’s an episode about how leaders—political, creative, and cultural—shape the narratives and futures we all inherit.