Amanpour Podcast Summary

Episode: Is US Prioritizing Business Over Peace?
Host: Bianna Golodryga (in for Christiane Amanpour)
Date: December 2, 2025
Main Theme:
The episode examines whether the United States is prioritizing business interests over a just and lasting peace in Ukraine, amidst escalating tensions and ongoing negotiations with Russia. The episode features in-depth conversations about the US-Russia-Ukraine peace talks, the human cost of war, the personal and societal aftermath of school shootings in America, and the legacy of women’s rights activism in Iran.

1. US Peace Negotiations: Business vs. Principle

Background & Current State of the War (00:08–02:34)

• Trump's special envoy, Steve Witkoff, is in Moscow for the sixth time in 2025, presenting a revamped US peace proposal involving Russia and Ukraine.
• Russia claims to have captured Pokrovsk—a major development in a long, brutal war.
• Ukraine, led by President Zelenskyy, voices support for diplomacy but insists that sovereignty and security are non-negotiable.

Key Quote:

“One strong country can start a war. Another strong country can help to stop the war.”
— Andrei Kurchov (00:08)

Kurchov's Perspective (02:06)

• US is taking significant steps—possibly decisive—but all peace-loving nations must align behind a dignified peace rather than a temporary reprieve.
• European unity is crucial to achieving a real end to the war.

2. Is US Peace Strategy Driven by Business?

Guest: Yaroslav Trofimov (Wall Street Journal Chief International Correspondent)

The Contradiction of Maximalist Demands (03:56–05:38)

• Russia's current demands are akin to demands placed on a vanquished foe—yet Ukraine hasn’t lost.
• Russia’s advances, like Pokrovsk, have come at heavy losses and are slow, challenging the narrative of imminent Russian victory.
• Ukraine fears any deal allowing Russia to rearm is mere prelude to another invasion, as in 2014 and 2022.

Notable Quote:

"The demands that Russia has are the demands for a country that was vanquished in a war. And while Ukraine is not winning the war, it hasn't lost the war yet."
— Yaroslav Trofimov (03:56)

Changes in US Tactics & Russian Strategy (05:38–07:07)

• Little evidence Putin's posture has softened; he’s aiming for total victory.
• Trump administration’s withdrawal of military aid and diplomatic pressure increases Ukrainian vulnerability and incentivizes Russian intransigence.

Business as a Bargaining Chip (07:07–08:04)

• As per Trofimov and the WSJ piece "Make Money, Not War", peace talks are now centered on economic deals (Arctic energy, rare earths, Russian assets), more than justice or sovereignty.
• The “carrot” of future business benefits is focused not on Russia, but enticing American and Russian elites to find common ground—Ukraine is seen as an obstacle to potential profits.

Notable Quote:

“Ukraine is an obstacle to this wonderful business opportunities that some people in the US and Russia can look forward to in the future.”
— Yaroslav Trofimov (07:07)

European Perception & Ukrainian Politics (08:04–11:04)

• Europe sees the conflict as existential, fearing a rapid peace may let Russia rearm for a future attack, possibly beyond Ukraine.
• Doubts grow about the US honoring NATO obligations.
• Zelenskyy is weakened by a domestic corruption scandal (resignation of chief of staff Andriy Yermak), but paradoxically, this makes him less able—not more—to compromise under pressure.
• Risk: the Ukrainian military and public might reject any surrender.

Notable Quotes:

“There are growing doubts in Europe about whether the United States will come to the rescue and will actually honor its commitments under Article 5 of the NATO charter.”
— Yaroslav Trofimov (08:57)

“If he [Zelenskyy] were to sign away territories...the military just would not follow orders.”
— Yaroslav Trofimov (10:16)

3. Human Toll: Voices from Ukraine

Correspondent: Christiane Amanpour (12:17), Bianna Golodryga (11:50)

Under Siege: Civilian Experience (11:50–13:47)

• Russian attacks intensify: Four dead, 40 wounded in Dnipro.
• Interviews with victims underline the unending threat and the emotional strain of Russia’s ongoing campaign against civilians.
• Grim expectation among civilians: “Peace? I doubt there will be peace anytime soon. It’s getting worse every day, and it’s only getting colder as well.” (12:27)

4. Andrei Kurchov: Diary of a Nation at War

Guest: Andrei Kurchov (Novelist, war diarist)

Adaptation & Resilience (13:47–15:24)

• Kurchov describes war's normalization: routinized bombings, loss of friends, resilience in finding small joys.
• Visiting theaters and cafes is an act of defiance and grasping for normalcy—performances canceled for air raids, yet life goes on.

“We adapt our habits and lifestyle to the wartime situation. We know where the nearest bomb shelters are. We go to restaurants and cafes. ... Tomorrow the restaurant may no longer exist.”
— Bianna quoting Kurchov’s diary (13:47)

The Refugee Crisis & Cultural Threat (16:39–18:54)

• Reflections on temporary displacement; intention never to be a refugee.
• Growing number of homeless Ukrainian refugees, dwindling aid in Europe.
• Russia’s war is not just territorial, but a war against Ukrainian cultural identity (language, history, monuments).

“If we talk about the second level of this war, this is definitely a war against Ukrainian national identity, because identity is made of language, culture and history. ... almost 800 libraries in Ukraine, either destroyed or damaged.”
— Andrei Kurchov (18:13)

Question of Language and Identity (18:54–21:38)

• Russian speakers, including Kurchov, grapple with guilt and trauma due to association with the invader’s language.
• Many have consciously shifted to Ukrainian or adopted other languages abroad.
• For Kurchov, Ukraine is more important than his mother tongue.

“The question was what important for me, mother tongue or my country? And of course my country, Ukraine, is much more important than my mother tongue.”
— Andrei Kurchov (20:40)

5. "All the Empty Rooms": School Shootings and Grief in America

Guests: Steve Hartman (CBS), Brian Muehlberger (parent), Hari Srinivasan

Genesis and Purpose of the Film (22:58–24:23)

• Steve Hartman created his documentary to counteract and shake off society’s numbness to the epidemic of school shootings.
• He wanted audiences to “fully feel the weight” of these tragedies.

“Because we can't begin to solve the problem until we fully feel the weight of it.”
— Steve Hartman (24:23)

Gracie’s Story & the Power of Memory (25:17–29:21)

• Brian Muehlberger remembers his daughter Gracie as the family’s vivacious spirit.
• Gracie's room became a sacred space of memory—left unchanged to preserve her presence.
• Photography team captured intimate details—like shoes, outfits ready for the next day—that render loss visceral and personal.

“I'd never seen such a responsible and respectful individual...he would take his shoes off before he would go in there just to honor the sacred place.”
— Brian Muehlberger on photographer Louvop (31:46)

The Wider Emotional Context (33:27–37:42)

• The project was kept secret by Hartman, the "feel good news guy," to avoid conflict with his employer's editorial preferences.
• The film's emotional depth encompasses grief, hope, and the toll beyond parents: siblings and the enduring question of how—or if—life goes on after loss.

“If the room goes away, does she go away? And we can honestly say that’s not the case.”
— Brian Muehlberger (31:00)

“I feel great hope at the end of this film. ... Maybe this might just be the beginning, and I certainly hope it is.”
— Steve Hartman (37:42)

6. The Legacy of Iran’s First Minister for Women

Guest: Mahnaz Afkami
Interviewer: Christiane Amanpour

Early Days & Grassroots Approach (39:21–41:15)

• Afkami was one of only two women worldwide holding a comparable office.
• She prioritized listening and adapting policy to real needs over imposing pre-set agendas.

“Not go from theory to action, but to go from action to theory.”
— Mahnaz Afkami (39:44)

Legal Progress & Revolutionary Reversal (43:23–47:27)

• Women’s Organization of Iran achieved groundbreaking laws: paid part-time work for mothers, childcare at workplaces; many of these rights still lacking in the West.
• All gains were revoked after the 1979 Revolution—her ministry abolished, reforms canceled, and a crackdown commenced, beginning with control over women’s bodies and dress.
• Afkami became an exile and continued her advocacy from abroad.

“The laws that we were able to pass are still unique in the world. Even a place like the United States doesn't have any of what we had. Childcare on the premises of the workplace, part time work, … all sorts of support for women working.”
— Mahnaz Afkami (43:49)

Philosophy of Activism (50:35–52:14)

• Afkami attributes her success not to personal uniqueness, but to genuine grassroots engagement.
• She emphasizes listening, learning, and acting collaboratively with the people most affected.

“We learn from each other and we should listen to each other. … The decisions should be on the basis of what we learn from each other and put into action.”
— Mahnaz Afkami (50:35)

Notable Timestamps & Quotes

| Segment | Speaker | Key Quote | |---------|---------|-----------| | 00:08 | Andrei Kurchov | “One strong country can start a war. Another strong country can help to stop the war.” | | 03:56 | Yaroslav Trofimov | “The demands that Russia has are the demands for a country that was vanquished in a war. And while Ukraine is not winning the war, it hasn't lost the war yet.” | | 07:07 | Yaroslav Trofimov | “Ukraine is an obstacle to this wonderful business opportunities that some people in the US and Russia can look forward to in the future.” | | 10:16 | Yaroslav Trofimov | “If he [Zelenskyy] were to sign away territories...the military just would not follow orders.” | | 13:47 | Bianna (quoting Kurchov) | “We adapt our habits and lifestyle to the wartime situation. ... Tomorrow the restaurant may no longer exist.” | | 18:13 | Andrei Kurchov | “This is definitely a war against Ukrainian national identity... we are talking now about almost 800 libraries in Ukraine, either destroyed or damaged.” | | 20:40 | Andrei Kurchov | “For me, the question was what important for me, mother tongue or my country? And of course my country, Ukraine is much more important than my mother tongue.” | | 24:23 | Steve Hartman | “Because we can't begin to solve the problem until we fully feel the weight of it.” | | 31:00 | Brian Muehlberger | “If the room goes away, does she go away? And we can honestly say that’s not the case.” | | 39:44 | Mahnaz Afkami | “Not go from theory to action, but to go from action to theory.” | | 43:49 | Mahnaz Afkami | “The laws that we were able to pass are still unique in the world.” | | 50:35 | Mahnaz Afkami | “We learn from each other and we should listen to each other. … The decisions should be on the basis of what we learn from each other and put into action.” |

Episode Flow & Tone

• Tone: Serious, contemplative, passionate. Each segment is rich with personal experience, emotion, and analytical clarity.
• Language: Direct, often poignant, with powerful personal testimonies and sharp political analysis.
• Pacing: Moves from macro-political strategy to individual and societal human consequence, ending on a note of long-term struggle and grassroots activism.

For Listeners New to the Episode

This episode offers an incisive look at the shifting priorities in US foreign policy regarding Ukraine, underlined by both expert insight and ground-level lived experience—from battered Ukrainian cities to the bedrooms left empty by American school shootings, to the lasting fight for women’s rights in Iran. Key moments illuminate the collision between geopolitical calculus and human dignity, and the importance of listening, empathy, and grassroots action in the midst of conflict and change.