Outrage Over Leaked Witkoff Call Coaching Russia On How To Sway Trump

Summary

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Amanpour – "Outrage Over Leaked Witkoff Call Coaching Russia On How To Sway Trump"

Date: November 29, 2025
Host: Christiane Amanpour (CNN International)

Episode Overview

This episode focuses on the explosive leak of US Special Envoy Steve Witkoff's call, in which he appears to coach Russian officials on how to influence President Trump towards a peace plan that many view as a de facto Ukrainian surrender. Amanpour examines whether this is standard diplomacy or an egregious betrayal of Ukraine, featuring high-profile interviews with former US Secretary of State John Kerry and former Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba. The episode also includes reports on Sri Lanka’s painful wartime legacy and a conversation with photographer Annie Leibovitz.

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Main Segment: The Leaked Witkoff Call & US Diplomacy on Ukraine

Setting the Scene: The Leak and Its Fallout

• Topic introduced: Recent leaks show Trump’s special envoy Steve Witkoff seemingly coaching Russia in a 28-point plan strongly favoring Moscow, raising questions about the US administration's diplomatic motives and Ukraine policy.
• Amanpour frames the debate:

  “Is this standard diplomacy or a sellout?” (00:48)

• President Trump downplays the leak, labeling it “traditional statecraft.”
• Moscow begins to backpedal, with Lavrov referencing prior summit understandings as the only legitimate basis for negotiation (03:05).

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Interview 1: John Kerry, Former US Secretary of State

Key Points:

• Is this ‘normal’ statecraft?

  “This is proven to be fairly normal for how the Trump administration chooses to do its diplomacy...plunking something down and giving somebody sort of an ultimatum, you have to decide this by Thursday. Not a great way to begin.” – John Kerry (04:18)

• Kerry acknowledges the urgent need for peace but warns against agreements that could fuel unrest in either country.
• Perceived deference to Russia:

  “I don’t think anybody can explain precisely why there appears to be this excessive sensitivity to President Putin.” – Kerry (05:14)

• He notes the lack of strong sanctions and pressure on Russia as undermining the West’s position.
• Historical regret:
  Kerry is asked whether more should have been done in 2014 after Crimea's annexation; he reflects on the constraints and limited knowledge at the time:

  “There was some consideration to how do you put pressure but not start World War III?” – Kerry (06:44)

• Lesson learned:

  “He thinks he’s going to win. He thinks he is winning. And that equation has to be changed if you’re going to get the full measure of what you want.” – Kerry (07:54)

• On military dissent and Pentagon investigation:
  Kerry rebukes the targeting of Senator Mark Kelly and others over remarks about refusing illegal orders:

  “I think this singling out of people and suggesting you’re going to bring them back and … try them or court martial them, I think it’s un-American.” (09:08)

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Interview 2: Dmytro Kuleba, Former Ukrainian Foreign Minister

Reaction to Leak:

• On the substance:

  “If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck, it’s probably a duck. So if it looks like a Russian ultimatum, then probably it is. It comes from Russia.” (10:57, 17:16)

• Kuleba, referencing the transcript, paints Witkoff as proactively helping Russia maximize gains in the Trump administration’s peace negotiation by timing a Putin-Trump call to undercut Zelenskyy’s visit to the White House (14:00–16:30).
• On the diplomatic custom:
  Describes it as extraordinary and deeply troubling that an American envoy is essentially briefing Russia on how to manipulate US decision-making.
• On the intelligence leak’s magnitude:
  Kuleba suggests the fact that someone exposed the taps, despite operational risk, is indicative of the seriousness of the threat:

  "The one who was tapping Ushakov’s phone found the situation so consequential that he decided that it’s worth exposing the tap...” (18:41)

• On the future of the peace plan:

  “I think we can bury the 28 point plan because it’s discredited... It’s very hard to imagine how you can actually move on from here now.” (19:30)

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Key Quotes & Their Significance

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|---------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 04:18 | John Kerry | “Plunking something down and giving somebody sort of an ultimatum... Not a great way to begin.” | | 05:14 | John Kerry | “I don’t think anybody can explain precisely why there appears to be this excessive sensitivity to President Putin.” | | 10:57, 17:16| Dmytro Kuleba | “If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck, it’s probably a duck. So if it looks like a Russian ultimatum, then probably it is. It comes from Russia.” | | 18:41 | Dmytro Kuleba | “This leak is a turning point... the threat of the situation is worth exposing the tapping.” | | 19:30 | Dmytro Kuleba | “I think we can bury the 28 point plan because it’s discredited…” |

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Other Notable Segments

Mass Graves and Painful Memories: Sri Lanka (20:50–25:20)

• A mass grave of over 240 people, including children, is discovered in northern Sri Lanka, reopening wounds from the civil war.
• Families of missing Tamils recall their loss and frustration at ongoing impunity.
• The government promises investigations, but victims and the UN doubt transparency.

  “How many years have we been tormented by this? Look what’s happened, my children, my country got ruined.” – Sivapatham Ilankatai (21:57)

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Annie Leibovitz on Portraying Women and Icons (27:07–34:09)

On representation:

“We don’t have enough stories. As women, we need to see ourselves. This collection ... is really a set of simple, good pictures of women from the last five or 10 years.” – Annie Leibovitz (27:07)

On photographing Michelle Obama:
Details the new session, noting Obama was more relaxed in jeans (28:07).

On the iconic John and Yoko photograph:

“It turns from a story of love to a goodbye... after he died... That’s interesting about photography – how over time, the stories sort of change in the imagery.” – Leibovitz (29:03)

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Humanitarian Highlight:

God’s Love We Deliver (36:09–37:38)

• The charity’s 40th anniversary, providing meals for the sick and vulnerable, especially during the AIDS crisis and still today.
• Anecdotes highlight hope and gratitude amid suffering.

  “I got food for me and my kids and I’m still alive today.” – Mary Diaz, charity beneficiary (37:34)

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Final Note: John Kerry’s Knighthood (38:43–39:39)

• Kerry receives an honorary knighthood from King Charles for his climate diplomacy.

“He was very funny in terms of my kids... I’m very grateful to His Majesty for the honor, but equally I am grateful for His Majesty’s leadership and vision...” – John Kerry (38:43)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:48 – Amanpour introduces the Witkoff leak
• 04:18 – John Kerry on diplomacy “ultimatums”
• 10:57 – Dmytro Kuleba’s “duck test” for Russian ultimatums
• 18:41 – Kuleba on the strategic significance of the leak
• 20:50 – Sri Lanka mass grave report
• 27:07 – Annie Leibovitz on her new women’s photo book
• 29:03 – Leibovitz on the John & Yoko photograph
• 36:09 – The story of God’s Love We Deliver’s founding
• 38:43 – John Kerry on receiving honorary knighthood

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Notable Quotes in Context

John Kerry on Trump Diplomacy:

“This is proven to be fairly normal for how the Trump administration chooses to do its diplomacy. I think just plunking something down and giving somebody sort of an ultimatum... not a great way to begin.” (04:18)

Dmytro Kuleba on the Leaked Plan:

“That 28-point plan is a list of Russian ultimatums blended with American ideas on how to make these ultimatums look better than they actually are.” (17:16)

Annie Leibovitz on Legacy:

“It turns from a story of love to a goodbye... after he was killed... that’s interesting about photography – how over time the stories change.” (29:03)

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Summary Takeaway

The episode exposes the behind-the-scenes chaos and controversy over US-Ukraine-Russia peace talks, critically examines diplomatic ethics, and highlights wider human stories of pain and healing from Sri Lanka to New York kitchens to iconic portraits. It features candid, sometimes emotional, interviews with those who have shaped and witnessed history—and those still fighting to be seen.

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Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Just plunking something down and giving somebody sort of an ultimatum. You have to decide this by Thursday. Not a great way to begin.

[A]

I discussed with former US Secretary of State and longtime negotiator John Kerry and Ukraine's former foreign minister Dmytro Culeba. Then a special report from Sri Lanka, a cry for justice as a painful past is unearthed. Also ahead, photographer to the stars Annie Leibovitz. Why she's pointing her camera at the world's women with a new book and her emotional reflections on the frame that launched her into the stratosphere. John and Yoko. Just hours before he was assassinated, I.

[C]

Promised John that they would both be.

[A]

On the COVID And a very special Thanksgiving dinner as a New York charity exceeds 40 million meals delivered from my archive. How it got started helping vulnerable AIDS patients. Welcome to the program, everyone. I'm Christiane Amanpour in London. The president may have pardoned turkeys this Thanksgiving, but could he be putting Ukraine on the chopping block? We look at all sides of the administration's so called peace plan to end Russia's nearly 12 year war against Ukraine. For first, we dive into the document that someone must have found so damaging that they leaked it. And Bloomberg published it. It showed US Special envoy Steve Witkoff coaching the Russians on how to get their way with President Trump in a 28 point plan that essentially would amount to Ukraine's surrender. President Trump has dismissed concerns, though, calling it traditional statecraft.

[B]

I haven't heard it. No, but that's a standard thing, you know, because he's got to sell this to Ukraine. He's got to sell Ukraine to Russia. That's what he's, that's what a deal.

[A]

So you're not worried that he's too pro Russian?

[B]

No I think, look, this war could go on for years and Russia's got a lot more people, a lot more soldiers. So I think if Ukraine can make a deal, it's a good thing.

[A]

Once again, tilting towards the Russian narrative. And once the leak was out, Moscow started backpedaling Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov saying that only the Putin demands made at this summer's summit with Trump in Alaska would be. If the spirit and letter of Anchorage are lost in the key understandings we have documented, then of course, the situation will be fundamentally different. But so far, I repeat, no one has officially communicated anything to us. As a flurry of emergency shuttle diplomacy takes off to reshape this, we will talk to the former Ukrainian Foreign Minister and the former US Secretary of State. So first to John Kerry here in London to receive a special honorary knighthood from King Charles for his efforts to tackle climate change. But I asked him, is all of this about Ukraine and Russia? Just normal statecraft this week has been really dominated by what on earth is the US Doing regards trying to bring a peace to Ukraine that looks heavily tilted according to all the links and leaks towards Russia. So, you know, Trump, the President says, oh, but this is nothing but, you know, normal statescraft. I want to ask a statesman who's engaged in high stakes negotiations, is it, is it normal?

[B]

I would say this is proven to be fairly normal for how the Trump administration chooses to do its diplomacy. I think just plunking something down and giving somebody sort of an ultimatum, you have to decide this by Thursday. Not a great way to begin. I mean, I hope they're successful, genuinely. We hugely hope they are successful. This war must end. But President Putin has a set of very clear objectives. And needless to say, in any kind of treaty or end of war, both sides will not get everything. And you have to find the sweet spot of where you can land so that they're satisfied significantly enough that their people, their countries will not rebel or feel that they somehow gave away the store.

[A]

What do you think Putin is getting out of this current administration?

[B]

Well, I don't think anybody can explain precisely why there appears to be this excessive sensitivity to President Putin. And I think a lot of people feel that the absence of some of the sanctions which could have been put in place, the absence of some of the, you know, greater pressure on President Putin, has changed what you can put on the table and then negotiate about. Obviously, there are huge implications here for Europe. Also, you know, Russia continues to promulgate these episodes of invading airspace with drones and testing and, you know, Back and forth, playing a dangerous game. And Europe is concerned, as it should be.

[A]

You talked about the kind of pressure, sanctions, et cetera, that should be brought to bear on Putin to make him feel the need to come to a negotiation. I have recently been speaking to the former NATO Secretary General who was secretary general in 2014 when you were in office. Jens Stoltenberg has written a memoir and he's very clear that he regrets that the United States, Europe, et cetera, didn't put enough pressure, whether it was sanctions or military aid to Ukraine. Putin, after the annexation of Crimea and the first invasion of the little green men into eastern Ukraine. Do you accept that in retrospect, that you should have done much more then.

[B]

I think it is so easy to sit here and see a situation where a number of years later something happens and you say, oh, gosh, why didn't we do this or that then? But I remember very clearly, as does President Obama and everybody in that administration that we were trying. There was an initial stage where already what had been happening in Donbass and Luhansk had been exacerbated and these, quote, little green men were running around in, you know, nameless years. Otherwise known as Russian, known as Russian troops, but because of a very different history with Crimea. And at that point, only a beginning of this process of understanding Putin's full ambitions, sanctions were immediately put in place. I think there was a, you know, as, as the initial evaluation of this new tactic was being done, there was some consideration to how do you put pressure but not start World War iii?

[A]

Right. That's what, that's what everybody's saying, including Biden and then Trump and everybody, to be fair, Trump, I know, to be.

[B]

Fair, it's very real. Now, that said, everybody now understands exactly what the game plan is. Everybody understands the danger of that game plan. I think one has to be tougher. I think you have to make it crystal clear he thinks he's going to win. He thinks he is winning. And that equation has to be changed if you're going to get the full measure of what you want. That's why I think members of the United States Senate, Republican and Democrat, are increasingly concerned about the direction this may be taking. You know the old saying, peace at any cost. No. And you have to be certain that the long term interests for real peace that can be held onto may take a little longer and may take a little more pain.

[A]

Now you've got the Pentagon investigating Senator Mark Kelly over, quote, serious allegations of misconduct after he also said in the video that American troops can refuse illegal orders. So I'm asking you, not as former secretary of state, but as America's most famous Vietnam vet who, you know, are known for having explained to the Congress and everybody why their war in Vietnam was going wrong, what do you say to people like Mark Kelly and the others or even to the Pentagon?

[B]

I think this signaling out of people and suggesting you're going to bring them back and put them into, you know, service again for the sole purpose of then trying them or court martialing them, I think it's un American. I think it is not in keeping with the spirit with which American citizens join the military and go in and serve their country in such a distinguished career from so many of these folks, and then you turn around and start threatening them with court martial and with death for a sedition that, you know, it's just, it's really hard to watch and it's very sad for our country and I think for the military to have this kind of dissension and leadership and it's quite extraordinary to have a secretary of defense whose service is not that long and long and strong.

[A]

Major Hegseth, you're talking about.

[B]

I'm just talking about not having somebody there. And all of a sudden you're concerned about people who are fat and you're addressing people who fought for their country, who have served, you know, unbelievably high qualified service with four stars on their shoulders. There's something really disturbing about that. And my hope is that that'll stop or that maybe the commander in chief will join in and set an example.

[A]

Secretary Kerry, thank you very much for being with us.

[B]

Thank you. Appreciate it.

[A]

Coming up next, Kyiv's reaction to the Trump peace plan. I asked the former Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba about the US Proposal.

[D]

If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck, it's probably a duck. So if it looks like a Russian ultimatum, then probably it is. It comes from Russia.

[A]

Also ahead, the photographer capturing women across the time, the legendary Annie Leibovitz on her new book, the Liberation of Michelle Obama. And poignant memories of that John and Yoko image and taking Timothee Chalamet to the stars.

[C]

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[A]

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Yeah, give it a [e-mail] switch upfront.

[E]

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[A]

Welcome back to the program as we discuss the US special envoy. Steve Witkoff's leaked 28 point plan to end Russia's war in Ukraine simply shows the Trump administration tilting towards Putin again instead of pressuring him financially and militarily to stop his illegal war. And the terms are shocking, taking almost all sovereign rights away from Kyiv and even demanding territory that Russia hasn't even been able to capture. While it's clear Russia is making some gains on the battlefield and it will take compromise, of course, to get to peace, Witkoff is headed to see Putin in Moscow again. So I asked about the view from Kyiv with Dmytro Kuleba, Ukraine's foreign minister until just last year. I want to ask you, foreign minister, about these leaked, you know, transcripts that Bloomberg has published. And I particularly want to just pray see that in one of them. Steve Witkoff, the president's special envoy, is talking to Yuri Ushakov, President Putin's special aide, in which he appears to be coaching him on how to get Putin to call President Trump and how best to make that call go, apparently to get the maximalist stuff that the Russians can get out of it. So this is another part of the conversation. I'm going to read it to you and we've got it on the screen. So this is Steve Witkoff. He's now saying now me to you. In other words, this is Steve Witkoff talking directly to Yuri Ushakov. I know what it's going to take to get a peace deal done, Donetsk and maybe a land swap somewhere. But I'm saying instead of talking like that, let's talk more hopefully, because I think we're going to get a deal here And I think Yuri, the president, will give me a lot of space and discretion to get the deal. And here's one more thing. Zelensky is coming to the White House on Friday. I know that. Yuri USHAKOV LAUGHS I will go to that meeting, says Witkoff, because they want me there. But I think, if possible, we have the call with your boss before that Friday meeting. Yuri says before. Before, yeah, Witkoff says correct. Now, I don't know what you make of that, but that is the envoy telling Putin's envoy the parameters of the peace. It's not even the president's. It's the envoys doing that. And as we know, there is a sort of feeling abroad that Trump listens to the last person in his ear. And so apparently the last person he talked to before meeting Zelensky in late October was Putin. And it was about the tomahawks that the president was floating, selling to Zelensky after that meeting and apparently after having a call with Putin, no more tomahawks. So how do you. Is that how you see that?

[D]

You're right. The real compromising part of this conversation is where Steven Wytkov suggests to Yuri Ushakov that Putin calls Trump because Zelenskyy is coming to Washington. So we should have no illusions. Of course, the Russian intelligence knew, was aware that Zelenskyy was coming, and.

[A]

In.

[D]

A different world of diplomacy, it would have been Russia who had to initiate a call between Putin and Trump. But they are lucky because they have Stephen Witkoff on the other side, who actually comes up with his own idea with exactly the same proposal in order to effectively make an impact on the way the meeting between Trump and Zelenskyy would go. So, for me, from the diplomatic experience perspective, this episode just reaffirms how strongly Mr. Witkov is trying to help Russia in the effort to end the war and influence the flow of events inside Trump's team.

[A]

Here's another leak from a separate call, Mr. Culeba, between Yuri Ushakov, who we were talking about, and Kirill Dimitriev, another very close Putin ally, who's also also apparently very close to Witkoff. This is Ushakov. Well, we need the maximum, don't you think? What do you think? Otherwise, what's the point of passing anything on Dmitriev? No, look, I think we'll just make this paper from our position and I'll informally pass it along, making it clear that it's all informal and I'll let them do like their own, but I don't think they'll Take exactly our version, but at least it'll be as close to it as possible. But what do you make of that?

[D]

That 28 point plan is a list of Russian ultimatums blended with American ideas on how to make these ultimatums look better than they actually are. I don't think it's a revelation to anyone that just copy pasting Russian ultimatums as it was done once again, clearly, clearly tells you where all this comes from. You know, if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck, it's probably a duck. So if it looks like a Russian ultimatum, then probably it is. It comes from Russia.

[A]

Yeah. The problem is that it's being spoken about by the US which are meant to be A, Ukraine's strongest ally and B, honest brokers. So my question to you is this. You know, A, should Wyckoff recuse himself and B, do you still think the US Has a semblance of your back? Clearly we know the problems because they've been displayed for global audiences to see between Trump and Zelensky. But then things seem to get a little bit more reasonable and now it seems to be going off the tracks again. As Zelenskyy said when all of this was leaked, we have to make a really difficult decision between our dignity and between a strong ally. He didn't say the US between the support of a strong ally. So where do you think that balance is right now?

[D]

The time when President Zelensky said those words is centuries ago compared to where we are now. And this leak is a turning point because, you know, it's important to analyze what is in it. But the most important question is this. So someone is tapping the phones of senior officials. Most probably it was Ushakov's phone because he appears in both conversations while his interlocutors are different. Anyone from the intelligence service can, will tell you that if you're tapping someone you know, stay silent. Don't let him know that you're doing that. So yesterday someone, and we don't know who is doing that, but some, the one who, who was tapping Ushakov's phone found the situation so consequential that he decided that it's worth exposing the tap, that the risk, the threat of the situation is worth exposing the tapping. So the situation is completely different now. And I think we can bury the 28 point plan because it's discredited, because nothing. It's very hard to imagine how you can actually move on from here, from here now.

[A]

And in a moment, a forgotten deadly conflict back in the spotlight with the remains of more than 150 people, including infants, unearthed in Sri Lanka.

[E]

Life on the Mars farm, it's anything but quiet for me and Dave.

[A]

Every day is a lot of moving parts.

[B]

Five kids do not go in the house.

[E]

A working farm and a renovation business that never stops.

[A]

We've been pushed to the limit.

[E]

If you build it, they will come.

[A]

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[E]

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[A]

Welcome back to the program. We now turn to Sri Lanka and the painful wounds of a decades long civil war. A mass grave has been uncovered in the north which has revealed the skeletal remains of hundreds of people, including infants. The discovery is reviving ugly memories and grief amongst the ethnic Tamil minority who've waited years for answers about relatives who disappeared during the brutal fighting. Tens of thousands of civilians died, mostly Tamils, in the war between these separatist rebels and the Sinhalese Buddhist led government. Now the excavation is seen as a litmus test for Sri Lanka's new government which has promised reconciliation and justice for wartime atrocities. CNN's Hanukkah Montgomery has this report.

[E]

The earth in Sri Lanka is surrendering its secrets that something very sinister once happened here at a newly found mass grave. Excavators have dug out skeleton after skeleton, at least 240 so far. Among them a child's school bag, a baby's remains. Even in death, these skeletons speak of a brutal civil war that left tens of thousands missing. Among them is Sivapatham, Ilankatai's daughter. When I hear a knock at the door, I think it's my child. If you're a parent, you'd know our pain. Every sound I think it's them returning. Her son in law vanished too, along with her three grandchildren, the youngest seven months old, kidnapped by Sri Lankan soldiers, she says and never seen again. How many years have we been tormented by this? Look what's happened, my children, my country got ruined. For 26 years, Sri Lanka was torn apart by war fought between government forces and the Tamil Tigers, rebels who fought for an independent homeland in the north and east. The conflict ended in 2009 with the Tigers defeated and accusations of atrocities from both sides. It left hundreds of thousands dead, raped or forcefully disappeared, many of them Tamils, an ethnic minority that suffered the most violence. Families of the missing have long accused the Sri Lankan army of abducting and killing their loved ones, then dumping the evidence in mass graves like Chemeney.

[A]

The.

[E]

Courts, alongside an independent national body, are investigating these alleged war crimes. The Sri Lankan government did not provide CNN with a comment, but speaking at a recent UN Committee meeting on these enforced disappearances, the head of the Sri Lankan delegation acknowledged the questions raised about the Chemini mass grave site.

[A]

All investigations are done with judicial oversight and everything is recorded in court.

[E]

The families and the UN Say the probes lack transparency and demand international oversight. Mary Ranjani Nirmananathan has lived this pain twice. Her husband, a translator for the army, disappeared in 1990. He left for work one day and never came home. Nirmalanathan says she searched for him for years, the army insisting he was still alive, a hope she clings to desperately. At least he is alive there. Someday he will come back to me. But in 2009, her son disappeared, too. She says on the very day he got his passport, his way out. My God, they took my son away.

[A]

They took him in broad daylight.

[E]

How can a mother watch this?

[A]

How can she bear?

[E]

Only a mother knows this pain. In Chemini, the digging goes on, each bone unearthed another tear in an old wound. Justice for these families has never arrived, but still they cling on to the fragile hope that their loved ones are not among the nameless below. Hanukkah Montgomery, CNN.

[A]

Now, the war ended 16 years ago, but this is another example of the vital need for justice anywhere in order to cement any peace and reconciliation everywhere. Coming up, one of the world's greatest photographers, Annie Leibovitz, with her latest book on women. That's after the break. If you want paradise for toes in.

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[A]

Chief beach as a series premiere December 3rd at Nine on HGTV. Welcome back. Now, she is a master of portraiture, and she has shot just about every American political, sports and cultural personality over the past five decades. The celebrated photographer Annie Leibovitz is known for her intimate and yet bold and provocative images. Leibovitz, late partner and the prolific writer Susan Sontag gave her the idea to put it all together in a photo book that was back in 1999 called Women, showcasing over 100 of them from all walks of life. Now, 25 years later, Leibovitz has a second volume featuring striking images, including the feminist trailblazer Gloria Steinem, the writer Chimamanda Ngozi, Adichie, and even, full disclosure, me, Ann Leibovitz, joined me here in London to tell me why one volume just wasn't enough.

[C]

I've had to learn how to talk about this book. But we basically, you know, men have their stories. We don't have enough stories. As women, we need to see ourselves. This collection now is really a set of simple, good pictures of women from the last five or 10 years and since his time and that. And that. We could not have done this book in 1999.

[A]

What about Michelle Obama? I just thought that picture was phenomenal. She's always been an icon, but this is quite something. How different to the portrait you made for the. No, the COVID of Vogue, for instance.

[C]

No, no, no. We shot many, many times. And the very last one, she was just. It was so painful. I could tell that she was. Couldn't wait to get out of there on some level. And so I asked her. She was one of the first. I mean, I didn't do too many new shoots for this second.

[A]

But this is a new one, the Obon one.

[C]

This is brand new.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, and I. And I asked her if she would sit, and, you know, she agreed right away. And then we got a call from her office saying, can Michelle Obama wear jeans? And I said, sure. You know, and then she showed up. But what's interesting about the little clip that she puts on, on her little, you know, Instagram, is, is that you see her preparing to get into that moment, and they actually have her, you know, you know, putting her head back like that. And honestly, you know, I've said this before, but her assistant was standing next to me, and she said, there's my First Lady.

[A]

I have to ask you, because it's such an extraordinary picture and it does define a lot of your oeuvre. And that is the John and Yoko.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, tell me about that. Because he was naked, she wasn't. And of course, it was taken a few hours before he was assassinated.

[C]

Still an emotional image to me, because it changes with time. I mean, especially like after he died, after he was killed, you know, and then some time pass, you look at it and you see you really is. It turns from a story of love to a goodbye, you know, so that's interesting about photography how over time, the stories sort of change in the imagery. In my youth, starting to work for Rolling Stone, I talked Jan Winter into letting me go and photograph John Lennon in New York when he was doing the interviews. And I Flew Youth Fair and stayed with friends. And John and Yoko couldn't have been nicer. They were very warm. They were just. It turned out. Yoko told me later that they were so, so surprised that Jan picked an unknown photographer. This, you know, to come and take their picture. That's why they were so, so nice. But it really set. Set the bar for me as far as, you know, how people should treat each other during these shoots, no matter who. Who they were, because I, of course, admired them so much. So it was over 10 years and. And we were. Rolling Stone was doing a cover. I was told before I. I went out to shoot that day that they really just wanted a picture of John by himself. You know, I went over to see. To see them at the Dakota, and I, you know, I say to John, hey, they. They really just want me to shoot you. You know, it's like he said, well, we're gonna have to do something really, really good if we're gonna have to do something special. But I. I didn't know it would be what it. What it was. But she kept her clothes on, and John's nude and he's clinging to her. And we pulled the Polaroid and John looked at it and he said, that's really my relationship. That's really. He was very happy with it. And so we took several more frames. And then, you know, I went away and I got a call from Jan that night, and he said that, you know, John was shot. So sorry. So we. So I went over to the hospital and waited to hear a final, you know, result that he. That he. That he had been killed. But I went into, you know, to Rolling Stones offices a day or two later, and they were mocking up a single picture of his, of his head. And, you know, and I went into Jan's office, I said, jan, I promised John that. That they would both be on the COVID So he did. He changed it. He changed it to both of them on the COVID And it wouldn't have.

[A]

Been half as good had it not been the two of them, right?

[C]

No. And. And it didn't take long. I mean, it. It wasn't belabored. We just did a few frames. And so I think I've always been on the side of the subject, you know, I mean, I'm. I'm like, that's why I'm a bad journalist.

[A]

Timothy Chalamet. Why has that caused such a hullabaloo?

[C]

I don't know. I had breakfast with Anna and I said, anna Winter. Anna Winter, you know, and. And I said, she said, I love the COVID I love the pictures. I don't read anything. We're just going for it. Timothee Chalamet was amazing. He, he, you know, when we talked before we started working, he said, I'll do anything you want to do. Let's do it. And I thought he looked so intelligent and so interesting in this kind of. And I chose the city.

[A]

So we're talking about this art city.

[C]

In the Nevada desert, Michael Heiser's. And it was, honestly, it was the hardest thing I've ever done because Michael said, no, I don't want anyone wearing Gucci shoes in front of something I've worked 50 years on. I was trying to. To not hurt the city or Michael Heiser's work. And I was trying to be. To work with Timothy and come up with something that was really different, you know, and interesting. And he was totally. He was amazing. Because it was like 110 degrees. No, there wasn't a cloud in the sky. I mean, it was really, really hard. But I love what we finally did. I went back a couple more times. I'm proud of the work, actually. I'm really proud of the work. It's so different. And I love Anna for just doing something totally, you know, I mean, out of this world.

[A]

Out of this world.

[C]

And, you know, Timothy was supposed to be the little prince, which I couldn't really tell him he was the little prince. And I let all the fashion go in on the COVID And the inside was kind of very low key, if not no fashion. It was just. It was really kind of an experiment, you know, of sorts.

[A]

That shoot, of course, was the water cooler conversation for a long, long time. Now coming up this Thanksgiving, we count our blessings, including the countless volunteers who head out to spread cheer and a hot meal from my arc. How God's Love We Deliver started in New York amid a massive social crisis and is still going gangbusters.

[E]

This is a real good story about Bronx and his dad, Ryan. Real United Airlines customers.

[A]

We were returning home and one of the flight attendants asked Bronx if he wanted to see the flight deck and meet Kath and Andrew.

[B]

I got to sit in the driver's seat.

[C]

I grew up in an aviation family and seeing Bronx kind of reminded me of myself when I was that age.

[E]

That's Andrew, a real United pilot.

[C]

These small interactions can shape a kid's future. It felt like I was the captain.

[A]

Allowing my son to see the flight.

[E]

Deck will stick with us forever.

[C]

That's how good leads the way.

[A]

Welcome back to the program now across the United States and Americans abroad, everybody wants to try to give back this Thanksgiving. This weekend, thousands upon thousands of people are volunteering at a time when too many vulnerable people have been abandoned by their governments and feel left behind. In New York, the organization God's Love We Deliver is celebrating its 40th anniversary, sending out medically tailored Thanksgiving meals for people who are too sick to shop or cook for themselves. From my archive when I jumped on board the charity's meal train, then in its infancy in 1988 at a time of desperate need as people struggled to survive the AIDS epidemic. For the past several days, an army of volunteers has been baking and chopping and stirring things up for Thanksgiving. But this is not just another day in the kitchen for these cooks. They belong to an organization called God's Love We Deliver. And they plan to deliver food and company to people with AIDS who are homebound, people who otherwise would spend Thanksgiving hungry and alone.

[D]

So there is a sadness too. But the other side of the country.

[B]

Coin is all the goodness and all.

[C]

The love, the compassion.

[A]

Compassion that comes from about 200 volunteers to some 300 people with AIDS like Mary Diaz.

[C]

I love them. I love them because they have helped.

[B]

Me out so much, you know, I would actually get starved.

[A]

Although the group goes the extra mile on holidays, providing cards and beautifully wrapped hampers of food, they actually feed their clients all year round. It began as a one woman effort. Two years ago, I saw a young.

[E]

Man who had AIDS in the late stages and he was bedridden and he had no money for food and his situation really moved me very much.

[A]

Two years later, the organization relies almost entirely on private contributions, although it is seeking more public funding. The program's motto is no homebound person with AIDS will go hungry. It hopes to go national. It already has reached Washington D.C. where it's called Meals on Heels because there isn't enough money yet for transportation. Here in New York, the volunteers deliver their food in vans, taking it to tenements in some of the city's poorest neighborhoods. Too sick to leave her apartment, Mary Diaz has come to rely on the help she is getting as she unwraps her gifts. She says she has plenty to be thankful for.

[B]

I got food for me and my.

[C]

Kids and I'm still alive today.

[A]

And it is great to remember that spirit of community and compassion and know that it still is alive. Now when we come back, Sir John Kerry. As the American receives one of Britain's highest honours, he tells me what happened behind closed doors when he was knighted by King Charles iii. And finally, an American in London, A little more of our conversation with veteran diplomat John Kerry, who for all his dedication towards tackling the climate crisis, has been named an honorary knight. No, he won't be Sir John Kerry. He'll still be Secretary Kerry, as that title is reserved for citizens of the Commonwealth. Here's what he told me about the ceremony. You're here to receive an amazing honor from King Charles for the amazing work that you have done on the climate and on negotiating certainly the Paris climate accord and all the work you've done as climate czar for President Biden, et cetera. Just tell me about it. What was it like? What does it mean to you?

[B]

Well, it was very, very, very meaningful, very special moment at Buckingham palace with my family. And the king could not have been more gracious and thoughtful. He was very funny in terms of my kids who had a little conversation with him. And it was really just a very special moment. I'm very grateful to His Majesty for the honor, but equally I am grateful for His Majesty's leadership and vision that he has never stopped expressing. And I think more important than ever now is folks who are willing to still stand up and say, wait a minute, folks, this is not a matter of politics, not a matter of ideology. It's a law of physics. And the physics are telling us you better respond to the challenge. And His Majesty is determined to keep working and working and doing it.

[A]

And imagine if the US Government kept working as well. That's all we have time for. Don't forget, you can find all of our shows online as [e-mail] audio and on all other major platforms. I'm Cristiana Manpour in London. Thank you for watching and I'll see you again next week.

[E]

The holiday season is here and CNN.

[A]

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[E]

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[A]

From expert recommendations to can't miss deals, we've wrapped it all up for you. Shop Holiday gifting [e-mail].