Remembering Ted Turner

Summary

Amanpour: Remembering Ted Turner

Podcast: Amanpour – CNN Podcasts
Date: May 6, 2026
Main segment: Reflection on Ted Turner's legacy, plus coverage of the nearing end to the Iran war and an interview about the enduring legacy of blackface in American culture.

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Overview

This episode of Amanpour opens with a special tribute to Ted Turner, the late founder of CNN, following his death at age 87. Christiane Amanpour shares insights from her personal experience working with Turner, delving into his vision, entrepreneurial risks, and principled approach to journalism. The show also re-airs a revealing interview with Turner reflecting on his life, values, and global impact.

Additional segments analyze ongoing U.S.–Iran diplomatic maneuvers in the aftermath of the latest Middle East war, featuring expert commentary on the prospects and implications of a rumored nuclear deal. The episode concludes with a discussion on the historical roots, pervasiveness, and social impact of blackface, drawn from new research by historian Raelynn Barnes.

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Remembering Ted Turner: His Life and Vision

Ted Turner's Legacy

• Ted Turner revolutionized global news by founding CNN, the first 24-hour news channel.
• Beyond media, Turner was an environmentalist, peace activist, world-class sailor, and philanthropist. Among his achievements: donating $1 billion to the United Nations over a decade.
• Turner viewed CNN not just as a business, but as a global service—telling America the world's stories, and vice versa.

Christiane Amanpour Reflects

(03:05–06:00)

• Amanpour characterizes Turner as a “giant” and “commanding officer.”

  “Remember when giants rode the world? Because he was a giant and there are very few of them now.” — Christiane Amanpour (03:13)

• Early days at CNN felt risky and unproven, with staff joking about doing “graduate studies on the job” before moving to bigger networks—only to realize, “CNN was going to be the biggest leagues” (04:15).
• Turner insisted CNN tell stories “from all sides,” and changed the language from "foreign" to "international" news to reflect a global perspective.

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In His Own Words: Ted Turner Interview Highlights

Facing Failure, Taking Risks

(06:13–08:31)

• On overcoming adversity:

  “Try and avoid [failure]. I knew I didn’t have enough money to get CNN to break even, but … if I get on the air and people see just how helpful it’s going to be, I’ll be able to raise the money later on. And I was able to do just exactly that. … It was really fun. And it was scary.” — Ted Turner (06:46)

• CNN struggled financially its first decade, with costs twice expectations and revenues half anticipated.

Ambition, Global Impact, and Peace

(08:50–09:23)

• Guided by his father's advice:

  “Be sure to set your goals so high that you can’t possibly accomplish them in one lifetime. … That way you’ll always have something ahead of you.” — Ted Turner (08:31)

• On incomplete ambitions:

  “We haven’t gotten rid of nuclear weapons and … global climate change, that after nuclear weapons is the greatest danger we face.” (08:50)

Courage and Determination

(09:41–11:13)

• On the perilous 1979 Fastnet sailing race:

  “No way [did I think about dropping out]. I would have been like dropping out with CNN.” — Turner (10:35) “Were you more concerned with winning than dying?”
  “That’s what it said in the book. Absolutely.” — Turner (11:09)

CNN’s Mission and International Breakthrough

(12:01–14:47)

• On CNN’s foundation:

  “I thought it through very carefully. That’s what I did. I studied the situation and I knew what I was doing. At least I felt like I knew what I was doing.” (12:03)

• Sued for White House access:

  “We sued the president and … the Supreme Court heard the story right quick and voted in our favor. … That’s all we were asking, is equal access.” (12:28–12:50)

• On CNN’s unbiased approach:

  “We weren’t anti-American. We were just pro-truth.” (14:36)

Building Bridges, Goodwill Games, and Global Relations

(15:02–17:14)

• Describes early encounters with figures like Fidel Castro and Vladimir Putin:

  “You don’t have to agree with somebody politically … for them to have worth.” (15:29)

• On fostering dialogue:

  “Building bridges between nations … during the 20 years of the Goodwill Games, we never had better relations with Russia.” (16:16)

• On Putin:

  “Seemed like a pretty capable, competent guy.” (16:42)

Nuclear Disarmament and War

(17:49–19:35)

• Renewed anxiety over nuclear risks and regrets not achieving disarmament:

  “The only thing that we can do is have total nuclear disarmament. Either we all have [nuclear weapons] or we all don’t. … I’m in real favor of not having them. We should get rid of all of them and sign a treaty … We don’t want to destroy the world.” (17:49–18:27)

• Calls for global cooperation beyond war:

  “It’s time to put war behind us. … Say goodbye to war and say hello to cooperation and working together.” (19:23)

Advice for the Next Generation

(20:04–20:51)

• On entrepreneurial focus:

  “Clean, renewable energy is the biggest single project because most of the people in the world don’t have it.” (20:04, reiterated 24:50)

• On skepticism over climate change:

  “I hate to say this, but I think you’re wrong.” (20:31)

Classics, Honor, and Integrity

(20:42–24:26)

• Studied the Classics for inspiration and guidance—cites “Horatio at the bridge.” (21:09)
• Humorous exchange about his father’s disapproval:

  “As a matter of fact, I almost puked on the way home today.” — reading from father’s letter (22:18)

• Describes integrity as essential, especially in journalism:

  “There’s not one blemish on my honor in my entire 76-year career, not once. … It’s very easy to slip into corruption. Very easy. But I resisted it all the way along.” (23:12)

Final Reflections

(24:27–24:53)

• On legacy:

  “To be remembered for the good things I’ve done.” (24:27)

• Most proud of: Family, then CNN.

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Immediate Reflections on Turner’s Legacy

(25:36–28:25)

• Amanpour is visibly emotional, emphasizing Turner’s “honor” and impact as a rare, honest capitalist and exemplary boss:

  “I’m proud to be hagiographizing Ted Turner because I don’t know anybody who was a better boss, who you could admire unreservedly …” (27:10)

• Turner's foresight on nuclear disarmament, the dangers of corruption, and climate change remain deeply relevant.

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Notable Quotes (with Timestamps)

• "We weren’t anti-American. We were just pro truth." – Ted Turner (14:36)
• "Clean, renewable energy is the biggest single project..." – Ted Turner (20:04)
• "There’s not one blemish on my honor in my entire 76 year career." – Ted Turner (23:12)
• "He was a giant and there are very few of them now." – Christiane Amanpour (03:13)

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Segment 2: Update on the Iran War and Prospects for Peace

Situation Overview

(28:43–32:58)

• U.S. and Iran are reportedly close to agreement on a memorandum to end hostilities, potentially including a moratorium on Iranian nuclear enrichment and sanctions relief.
• Middle East expert Danny Citronovich (former Israeli military intelligence) provides analysis.

Key Insights from Danny Citronovich

(30:09–36:14)

• The military campaign failed its primary purpose ("to topple the regime"), with talks now strengthening Iran’s current leadership (30:09).

  “At the end of the day, this campaign actually failed. … The only viable solution to end this war [now] is compromise.” (30:53)

• Despite economic damage, Iran’s regime is unbowed and will not capitulate under pressure.
• U.S. sanctions and military operations have weakened Iran, but not enough to change its leadership’s position at the negotiating table.
• U.S. is perceived by Iranian leadership as lacking credible threat—diplomacy and limited responses seen as regime victories.
• Iranian regime “is willing to sacrifice its own population for survival” – suggesting traditional strategies of pressure are insufficient.

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Segment 3: The Enduring Legacy of Blackface in America

Interview with Professor Raelynn Barnes

(37:39–52:36)

Historical Origins and Spread

• Blackface dates to 1828; originated in Northern urban settings (not the South).
• Minstrel shows exploded in popularity, peaking at a million performances a year by the 20th century (39:53).
• Technologies like lithography and mass publication democratized blackface, moving it from professional theater to schools, churches, and community events.
• Federal government played an unexpected role. During the Great Depression, the Works Progress Administration subsidized and preserved blackface as “American entertainment”—putting scripts and music into the public domain and into schools.

Why Was Blackface So Popular?

• Blackface performances were “funny, witty, and full of wordplay,” which, when combined with racial caricature, normalized stereotypes.
• Iconic American jokes and songs (e.g. "Why did the chicken cross the road?", the ice cream truck tune) originate from blackface/minstrel culture (48:28).

Suppression and Memory

• Civil rights activists, especially Black mothers and students, campaigned successfully to erase blackface from schools and public life (1940s–60s), recognizing its dehumanizing influence.
• Librarians and archivists sometimes hid minstrel materials to prevent their misuse by hate groups, further complicating public memory (48:36–51:12).

On Re-examining the Legacy Today

• Barnes advocates having honest national conversations about this part of U.S. history (51:27):

  “If we could open more spaces in America … to say this impacted all of us, even if you don’t initially realize it, it did. So what do we do with that?”

• Americans are, in Barnes’s view, ready and eager for the reckoning—making space for storytelling and reflection about how deeply such tropes shaped society.

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Notable Quotes (with Timestamps)

• “I see [blackface] all the time at Disneyland and Knott’s Berry Farm and in my daily life.” – Raelynn Barnes (37:49)
• “During the 20 years of the Goodwill Games, we never had better relations with Russia.” – Ted Turner (16:21)
• “If we could open more spaces in America … to say this impacted all of us … I think Americans are completely ready to have that conversation.” – Raelynn Barnes (51:27)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Time | Segment Description | |-------------|-----------------------------------------------------------| | 00:04–03:05 | Opening, Ted Turner's legacy intro | | 03:05–06:04 | Christiane Amanpour reflects on Turner | | 06:04–25:36 | Interview with Ted Turner (archival, with Amanpour) | | 25:36–28:25 | Christiane Amanpour post-interview reflections | | 28:43–36:14 | Iran war, U.S.–Iran negotiations, commentary | | 37:39–52:36 | Raelynn Barnes: Blackface history and impact |

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Summary

This episode pays rich, personal tribute to Ted Turner—illustrating his monumental influence on journalism, peace, and civic life through both affectionate reminiscence and direct testimony. The re-broadcast interview with Turner makes for a powerful time capsule: idealistic, blunt, and unafraid to reflect on both shortcomings and triumphs. Subsequent segments offer timely, critical analysis of international affairs, and a thoughtful exploration of how damaging cultural practices like blackface were woven into, and later suppressed from, the American mainstream. The episode weaves together historical memory, personal testimony, and contemporary crises with clarity and a tone both reverent and searching.

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Recommended For

• Listeners interested in media history, leadership, and the evolving ethics of journalism.
• Students and professionals seeking insight on enduring international tensions and negotiation.
• Anyone curious about the legacy of cultural stereotypes, the process of reckoning with history, and the necessity of national dialogue around past harms.

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Noteworthy Moments

• Turner’s story about CNN’s early days—the financial risks and skepticism ("chicken noodle news")—grounds the myth in reality.
• The passage on refusing to “drop out” of challenges, whether in journalism or dangerous sailing, makes for memorable radio.
• Ted Turner’s integrity and classicist worldview—especially his recitations—reveal a depth outside cliché media mogul tropes.
• Raelynn Barnes’s mix of personal anecdote and scholarly discovery reframes the history of blackface as both everyday and institutionally reinforced, not merely a relic of a distant past.

Transcript

[A]

Hello, everyone, and welcome to Amanpour. Here's what's coming up. CNN founder Ted Turner, the man who created a revolution in global news, has died. Christiane joins me with reflections on his life and legacy. Then Trump tries to wrap up the Iran war. But what is the reality on the ground? I asked Middle east security expert Danny Siternovich who was Israel's top Iran intelligence analyst. And darkology. Raelynn Barnes tells Michelle Martin how blackface exploded from a niche performance into a national export. Welcome to the program, everyone. I'm Biannica Rodriguez. New York CNN founder Ted Turner has died at the age of 87. An innovator and an icon, he revolutionized the television business by turning a wild idea into reality, creating the first 24 hour news channel right here, CNN.

[B]

To act upon one's convictions while others wait to create a positive force in a world where cynics abound to provide information to people when it wasn't. I dedicate the news channel for America, the Cable News Network.

[A]

Ted Turner was more than a media mogul. He was an environmentalist, a peace activist, a champion sailor and a philanthropist, donating $1 billion to the United nations over 10 years. Turner was married three times, including to actress and activist Jane Fonda. Ted Turner is survived by five children. For more on Ted Turner's life and legacy, let's bring in somebody who worked very closely with him, our very own Christiane. Christiane, it is good to see you. I'm sorry for the loss of someone who I know was a role model for you, who helped create the state of news today as we see it through an international lens. You were the international anchor. You wanted to be the foreign news reporter and he told you, no, I don't like, like that name. It's international. The world is seen through an international lens. And it's crazy to think back that you started as a desk assistant in Atlanta in 1983. You recall delivering coffee and Twinkies, hearing rumors that Ted may actually not be able to make payroll that week. Here we are now, so many years, so many decades later. You have traveled the world reporting from war zones all over. I wonder how leaders around the world, how they viewed Ted.

[C]

Well, Ted was always the most exceptional character, Bianna. And today is a very sad day, a sad day for the CNN family. And I think it's a sad day for the world. But I also think it's an important day that we're able to remember this great, great man. Remember when giants rode the world? Because he was a giant and there are very few of them. Now, he started CNN not just as a moneymaker for himself, not just, you know, a v. As the great American capitalist entrepreneur that he was, but really to make a difference in this world for good. And he really believed that us telling the stories of the world back to America and reflecting America back to the world was a great, great service. And he was right. And, you know, the word startup didn't exist then, and yet CNN was a startup. The word video on demand didn't exist then, and yet that is what CNN created. And it was the first, absolute first and most especially in television around the world. It. So he broke down so many barriers. And he was, you know, handsome and swashbuckling and he was our commanding officer. And we said, yes, sir. And we followed him not because we were afraid, not because there was any punishment or punitive measures, but because we believed in his vision and we were all his willing, you know, accomplices. And it was absolutely the best place to be as a young journalist who knew it was chicken noodle news, you remember, and. And yet he made it. And yet he made it. I remember all of us at the beginning, I don't think anybody had a graduate degree. We were all undergraduates. And we all said, hey, you know, we'll go to CNN and we'll do our graduate studies on the job, and then we'll go to the big leagues if we can. Who knew that CNN was going to be the big of the biggest leagues. And today, I think what he created stands out most importantly because he told us that we had to cover the world from all sides. Liked what side? We were not activists for political agendas. We were just out andout news reporters. And yeah, he basically broke down the barrier using the word foreign. He said, no, you're no longer. This is not foreign news. You're not a foreign correspondent. This is an international news network. An international correspondent. A bit difficult to swallow because I really would have liked to have been, you know, Edward R. Murrow, great foreign correspondent. But, you know, we were international correspondents and I saw him many times. I worked for him. So I was not his friend in terms of, you know, pally. Pally. But towards the end, and especially after he was no longer in executive power, we did go and see him. Many, many CNNs went and trekked and did the pilgrimage. Not just, you know, because we. We thought it was our duty, but because we still wanted to hear what Ted had to say and what Ted thought. And one of the last times was the interview that you're going to play now. And he was clearly, you know, much diminished, but as sharp as ever in his vision, in his engagement. And I hope, I hope you enjoy this, this last interview that we conducted.

[D]

Can I ask you about how you're feeling?

[B]

I'm feeling tired, but I'm working on it.

[D]

Do you feel you don't have the same energy than you used to?

[B]

Oh, no question about it. I've got arterial fibrillation. It's in remission right now, but it could come back at any time.

[D]

You are somebody who's known for your phenomenal success, I mean, kind of mind blowing success and the cutting edge reforms that you've been, you've been doing. How much do you look at success in context with failure? What does failure mean to you? How do you look at failure, how

[B]

you deal with it, Try and avoid it. And I've been successful in doing that. I knew I didn't have enough money to get CNN to break even, but I figured, I said, how am I going to get around it? I thought it through real carefully and I figured if I get on the air and people see just how helpful it's going to be, I'll be able to raise the money later on. And I was able to do just exactly that. It was hard because of the finances the first year, the budget. We were 100% over the budget on expenses. It cost us twice as much to run as we had projected and the income was half as much as we predicted. So the bottom line was one quarter of what we projected. And the bankers just did. We're sorry, this is not a bankable deal. You gotta give us our money back. I said, give me a little time to get somebody else to lend it to me. It was really fun. I mean, and it was scary. It was just as scary or scarier than the wind and the facet race. But all storms have a lot in common. You know, you're in danger. You gotta be cool head. Timing is important in everything that you do. The first 10 years we lost money and then we broke even in the 11th year and now we're making a decent profit.

[D]

When you were very young, your father told you to be sure to set your goals so high that you can't possibly accomplish them in one lifetime. That way you'll always have something ahead of you. Did you set your goals high enough? Most people would say yes. And you've accomplished them all?

[B]

Well, I haven't accomplished them all. We haven't gotten rid of nuclear weapons and we haven't got we're headed in the right direction, but we haven't gotten far enough. Along with fighting global climate change, that after nuclear weapons is the greatest danger that we face. And it's preventable. The good thing is almost everything is preventable. The bad things, all you gotta do is do them.

[D]

You have done so many amazing things and you have had and are living an amazing life. One of the things I'm really interested in is this incredible Fastnet race in 1979. So what do you remember today about that race which was such a dangerous race?

[B]

It was a dangerous race. I remember that the winds got up to close to 70 miles an hour and the waves got to 40ft high, according to the statistics. So it was rough and 14 people were killed.

[D]

Did you know it was going to be as big as it was?

[B]

Mm. In fact, when I heard the weather forecast, our navigator came out of the navigation booth and told us it was going to be the weather that it was. I said, 20 people are going to die tonight. And 14 did.

[D]

14 or 15, in fact, did. You're absolutely right. Did you ever think of not going through with the race? Was it ever a dropping out?

[B]

No way. I would have been like dropping out with cnn.

[D]

So you were determined to push on?

[B]

Absolutely.

[D]

Was there ever a moment that you thought you wouldn't make it?

[B]

No, but I didn't spend a whole lot of time thinking about not making it. I was trying to figure out how to keep going.

[D]

Were you afraid?

[B]

No, I was concerned, but I wasn't afraid. If I'd have been afraid, I'd have dropped out. There was no penalty for dropping out,

[D]

except you wouldn't have won.

[B]

Right.

[D]

Were you more concerned with winning than dying?

[B]

That's what it said in the book. Absolutely.

[D]

And CNN was also a major challenge. I mean, it wasn't an easy thing to start. Right.

[B]

It was the everybody, just about everybody that had an opinion didn't think we could do it.

[D]

And what did you say to them? What did you say to that?

[B]

Take a look at it in retrospect now you can see that we did do it, obviously, and it was a huge success. Huge.

[D]

How did you convince them? And did you ever feel that if all these experts are telling me I can't do it, well, maybe there's something to.

[B]

It didn't bother me at all.

[D]

Were you trying to create a revolution with 24.7news, or were you just trying to find another brilliant business opportunity? What was your motivating impulse?

[E]

Both.

[B]

Both. I thought it through very carefully. That's what I did. I studied the situation and I knew what I was doing. At least I felt like I knew what I was doing. And it turned out that I did.

[D]

And then after you created CNN in the United States, which already created a revolution, do you remember what it was like when you were shut out? When CNN was shut out of the

[B]

White House, for instance, it wasn't for very long. We sued the president. You sued the president and the government, and the Supreme Court heard the story right quick and voted in our favor.

[D]

So then CNN cameras could go and cover the White House like everybody else.

[B]

Right. That's all we were asking, is equal access.

[D]

You've said that of all the things you've done and you've done a lot, that CNN is the business achievement of which you're the most proud.

[B]

Yes.

[D]

Ten years later was the Gulf War when CNN really exploded into the international consciousness, into the global.

[B]

They were the only ones who were covering the war live from behind.

[D]

Do you remember all the pushback you got from the President of the United States, from the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, from all these people who called you up and said, ted, get your people out of Baghdad.

[B]

Well, the president didn't call me. He called Tom Johnson. But the word got to me.

[D]

Did you ever think of obeying those orders?

[B]

I couldn't do it because it was too important. And I said, as long as we have people that volunteer to stay. And Peter Arnett volunteered and Bernie Shore and John Holloman.

[E]

Let's describe to our viewers what we're seeing. The skies over Baghdad have been illuminated. We're seeing bright flashes going off all over the sky.

[B]

Bernie really got caught there. He got out the next day. He was only there the first day.

[D]

That is legendary, what they did that night.

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah, that was it.

[D]

And then everybody else took cnn.

[B]

Right.

[D]

Fast forward all these years to now. There's a lot of politics that's involved even in news coverage. And people can criticize. They can say, well, you know, were you on the side of the Iraqis? Why weren't you, you know, patriotic Americans? What were you doing in the enemy camp? Why were you behind enemy lines? What do you say today to people who still ask that question?

[B]

Not just about you don't ask it.

[C]

Not just about this story.

[B]

We changed the way things were done. It wasn't. We weren't anti American. We were just pro truth.

[D]

And were you pro truth when you took up the invitation from Fidel Castro decades ago to actually go to Cuba and see what this guy was all about? What Made you go there. Was that about pro curiosity?

[B]

That's what made us go everywhere. That's what people watch the news for because they're curious about what's going on.

[D]

Did you have an idea of Fidel Castro?

[B]

Thought he was pretty colorful.

[D]

And did you change your opinion when you.

[B]

He had a lot of courage to tackle the United States, you know, being so close to us.

[D]

Did you change your opinion at all when you got down there? I mean, your father was very strongly anti communist, like most Americans.

[B]

I was too. You don't have to agree with somebody politically on everything that feel like they have, that they have worth.

[D]

And you also said after this eye opening trip to Cuba, I flew home with a whole new desire to understand more about other cultures and political systems and to do what I could to increase communication and dialogue between nations.

[B]

Yep. What's wrong with that?

[D]

Nothing. But it doesn't happen very much. And it's. Do you think people are still that committed to doing precisely that?

[B]

Maybe not quite as committed as I was.

[D]

I mean, your whole ethos was about trying to build bridges between nations, especially

[C]

with the Goodwill Games.

[D]

When you tried to build bridges between then Soviet Union and the United states

[B]

during the 20 years of the Goodwill Games, we never had better relations with Russia.

[D]

And just remind me, who was your guide then? Wasn't it the young Vladimir Putin?

[B]

Yeah. Vice mayor of St. Petersburg. We had the games there. Forget what year it was, but it was when he was there.

[D]

And what did you think of him at that point?

[B]

Seemed like a pretty capable, competent guy.

[D]

Does it surprise you that now that he's president all these years later, there is real antipathy between him, Russia and the United States.

[B]

It's terrible. I'm the guy that believes that we should learn how to get along, particularly the countries that we cannot afford to get into conflict with or Russia and because of their nuclear weapons, and China.

[D]

So during this crisis between Russia and Ukraine and a raid against the west, something that I thought was unthinkable happened. President Putin has, one way or another, raised the specter of, quote, unquote, the nuclear option. And I certainly never thought in my life, particularly after the Cold War, that this would be a possibility. And you, who spent so much of your life trying to secure nuclear weapons with the Nuclear Threat Initiative, and can you believe that this is actually happening in 2015?

[B]

It's hard to believe, but we're both guilty. The only thing that we can do is have total nuclear disarmament. Either we all have nuclear weapons or we all don't. Have them. And I'm in real favor of not having them. We should get rid of all of them and sign a treaty that would never mess with them again. We don't want to destroy the world. It's a very dangerous situation. Those bombs are so powerful that just a few of them will kill life on Earth. And we've got thousands of them on hair trigger alert.

[D]

Do you worry that there could be an accident?

[B]

Yes, there have been numerous accidents, but fortunately none have triggered an explosion yet. But it could happen at any time. Just look at how we do with airline travel. We work so hard all over the world to make our planes safe from. And even with that, every month one crashes somewhere in the world. And so if that can happen with our airlines, it can sure happen with our nuclear weapons. We've got to get rid of them. It's just like having dynamite in your basement. We ought to work on the things that make our lives better, not the things that make our lives worse. And weapons and armies and aircraft carriers are just a waste of money and a waste of time. It's time to put war behind us that we've made enough progress to where we can say goodbye to war and say hello to cooperation and working together.

[D]

Well, you can say that because you're 76 years old and you have been fighting for this.

[B]

I've been saying it all my life too.

[D]

Precisely.

[B]

I haven't changed. I was saying this 50 years ago.

[D]

What advice would you give to the young entrepreneurs of today who are wondering where to invest their energy, where to put their creativity? You seized cable before cable was cool, as the ad went. What would you say to people today? What is the most important area of business endeavor?

[B]

Well, a chance to make a fortune. Energy. Clean, renewable energy is the biggest single project because most of the people in the world don't have clean, renewable energy.

[D]

What would you say to the skeptics who say there may be some climate change going on, but A, it's got nothing to do with us, and B, trying to fix it with alternative energy is just economically not viable. What would you say to them?

[B]

I'd say, I hate to say this, but I think you're wrong.

[D]

I want to go back a little bit further. You went to Brown University to study the classics? No, no.

[B]

I went there because my father wanted me to go to an Ivy League school and I got in there.

[D]

Your father wanted you to go to an Ivy League school and you got in. That's where you went.

[B]

I didn't plan to study the classics when I First went to Brown, I didn't know what I was going to study.

[D]

You did study the classics, right?

[B]

I ended up going that way because it was inspirational for me.

[C]

In what way?

[B]

Well, the grandiose plans of the Classics. Horatio at the bridge. Then step forward. Horatius, the captain of the gate, he said to every man of woman born, death cometh soon or late. And how can man die better Than facing fearful odds? For the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his gods Hew down the bridge, sir, counsel with all the speed ye may, I with but two beside me will hold the foe in play on yon narrow span a thousand might well be stopped by three. Now who will stand on either hand and guard the bridge with me? I like that.

[D]

I like that, too.

[B]

I signed up for Classics, said, here I am, due down the bridge.

[D]

This letter from your dad. When you declared Classics your major, he said, my dear son, I'm appalled. I know, even horrified, that you've adopted Classics as a major. I know. As a matter of fact, I almost

[B]

puked on the way home today.

[C]

You remember the letter?

[D]

I think you're rapidly becoming a.

[B]

An asshole.

[D]

No, it was a jackass, damn it.

[B]

I sent you there.

[D]

What did you think when you got that letter from your own dad?

[B]

I was more amused than anything because I saw the value in Classics.

[D]

But what would have happened had you stuck with the classics? Would there have been a cnn? Would there have been a Nuclear Threat Initiative? Would there have been a goodwill gang?

[B]

I did stick with the classics. I stuck with the classics and they were with me. I was inspired to stand at that bridge.

[D]

Can you do Shakespeare?

[B]

A little bit.

[D]

Do you have anything you'd like to declaim?

[B]

This is, I think, Richard iii. Anyways, one of the Richards. Oh. My honor is my life. We live in one. Take honor from me and my life is done. Then pray, my liege, my honor, let me try. For that I live, and for that will I die. And I live with that. There's not one blemish on my honor. In my entire 76 year career, not once. How many times have you heard protesters saying, get rid of Turner's? You know, corruption never paid anybody off. Never. And in the news business, there were times when putting a little money on the table would get you some access that you wouldn't get otherwise. It's very easy to slip into corruption. Very easy. But I resisted it all the way along. Not one time.

[D]

What do you most want?

[B]

To be remembered for the good things I've done.

[D]

What's your Proudest achievement.

[B]

My family first and outside my family, cnn.

[D]

And what advice would you have for any young person who came to say, ted, you've done it all. What can you tell me?

[B]

Clean energy.

[D]

Ted Turner, thank you very much.

[B]

You're quite welcome.

[A]

Christiane is back with us. And Christiane, just watching that, I'm not sure if you're aware, but I actually have a monitor where I could see you and your reaction throughout that interview. And I'm just curious. I would imagine so many emotions were going through your head. What stood out to me were so many of the topics that he raised almost 11 years ago that are so relevant. Top of mind today. Nuclear disarmament, corruption in power, climate change. You could go on and on and on. How did you feel watching that?

[C]

Well, I was listening.

[D]

I can't see it.

[C]

And I didn't know you were coming back to me. So I'm quite emotional. But I think it's okay because he was so great. And I laughed at some of the things he was saying, especially the letter I wrote read to him from his father that he could still quote, I think is phenomenal. What he talked about at the end, quoting Shakespeare, you know, quoting the Horatio at the bridge, talking about honor, talking about how he never had his honor blemished. And it's something incredible because we know how difficult it is to be a very honest capitalist, a very honest entrepreneur. We know how corruption affects so much of the world we live in today. And I think it's really, really amazing. Heard him say that that was one of his proudest accomplishments. I thought that what he told young people and God, you know, if people had done it and really done the renewable energy, we wouldn't be over a barrel in the Middle east like we are right now in the straits of Hormuz. You know, he was so visionary about everything. And I know we've said it over and again, but just listening to that to him, and that was 10 years ago, you just thought, wow, he knows so much. He's seen so much, he's done so much. He's put his money literally where his mout is. He has led people, he has led on huge issues that are totally relevant and important to the world and especially today. And I will say that, you know, maybe people think that what we're doing is hagiography. Well, I'm proud to be hagiographizing Ted Turner because I don't know anybody who was a better boss, who you could admire unreservedly and you could follow over the. Well, not over the cliff, but into the breach and beyond. So I just think it's really extraordinary to listen to him 10 years ago. And I know he thought that all his career and I hope young people are certainly young journalists can get some inspiration or young entrepreneurs or just young people who believe in civics and society because he believed in community and he never lost his hope.

[A]

A true Renaissance man. I love how you've noted in an interview that he democratized information through a 24 hour news model that he created himself. And like all of us, proving how mortal he is to remember, remember some of the harsh words that our parents have said to us so many, so many years ago, word for word. Christiane Amanpour, thank you so much. Thank you for this brilliant interview and a reflection on what an icon this man was for the news industry, really for the world. Thank you so much.

[C]

I think we all owe him a debt of gratitude. The world does, the news industry does. And certainly all of us at CNN do.

[A]

Well said. Thank you, Christian, and do stay with cnn. We'll be right back after the break.

[C]

Thanks, Biana.

[A]

Now, is this the beginning of the end for the war in the Middle East? A regional source has told CNN that the US And Iran are closing in on agreeing to a short memorandum aimed to end the war. It would trigger a 30 day negotiation period on the harder issues from uranium enrichment to the Strait of Hormuz. Meanwhile, Iran's top diplomat met his counterpart in China just days before President Trump's own meeting with Xi Jinping in Beijing. And at the same time, the US Operation to guide commercial ships through the Strait of Hormuz, dubbed Project Freedom, is on par just some 48 hours after it began. President Trump says it's due to diplomatic progress, though Iran claims the US Is backing down. To discuss all of this, let's bring in Danny Citronovich for his analysis. He's a senior fellow at the Institute for National Security Studies and former head of the Iran branch of Israeli military Intelligence. He's well placed to discuss all of this and is joining me now from Tel Aviv. Danny, welcome back to the program. So let's talk about this latest reporting that the US and Iran are closing in on a 14 point MoU trading sanctions relief relief, somewhere between 12 to 15 year moratorium on nuclear enrichment for that sanctions relief and opening up the strait. You wrote on X that if this deal is actually signed, it would be a fitting end to a campaign that began as epic fury and is ending as epic disaster. Explain what you mean by that.

[E]

Thank you Very much for having me. I'll try to explain that. I'll try to really highlight what I meant with this tweet or annex, actually. We have to remember what was the purpose of this campaign. First and foremost, to topple the regime. This is why, for the first time in history, Israel decapitated a leader of another country. Now, where we're standing right now is an agreement that if it will be signed, actually will strengthen the same regime that we wanted to topple. There will be lifting of sanctions. So the regime will be emboldened. Nobody will discuss its missile and its aids to proxies, and it will get the right to enrich uranium. So the bottom line of things is the fact that I think that this campaign actually failed. Even more than that, I will say that unfortunately, this is the only viable solution to end this war. Because without compromising with Iran, then escalation will be inevitable. And even if there will be an escalation, Iran will capitulate. So we are in a very problematic situation right now. Whether to strengthen the regime by an agreement or returning back to war at the end of the day will lead us to a negotiation with the same starting point by the Iranians. This is where we are, and this is why it's such a failure.

[A]

The president just moments ago saying that he thinks Iran wants a deal right now. He thinks they are speaking with the decision makers, the right decision makers. We've heard this language from him as well as he's also noted divisions within leadership now in Iran. So can Tehran actually deliver a consensus if this deal does move forward, or do you think they're perhaps just buying time?

[E]

Well, we were down that road before that. President Trump discussed those issues. I have to say one thing, extremely important I need to highlight. The problem with Iran decision making is not the friction within the leadership. Since the dawn of the Islamic Republic of Iran, he had this kind of friction. The problem is first and foremost the position of the Iranians, meaning that they don't want, they don't need in their eyes, to capitulate. And this is a problem that we have right now. In order to reach an agreement, US Will have to compromise with Iran because Iran is not ready to show any compromise. And it's red line.

[A]

Danny, I think we have.

[E]

So I think that we need to highlight again and again.

[A]

Sorry, I can hear you now. We lost you for a second.

[E]

I think that we should highlight again, again this problem. The problem is not the friction within the regime itself, but the position. At the end of the day, he's not ready to capitulate. And this is a problem that we are facing and friction where in the past would be in the future. This is decentralized regime controlled by the agency. But the main problem is the position that they are presenting in a negotiation. This will be very hard to change even if the US Return back to war.

[A]

How much damage has the war and now weeks of a blockade imposed on Iran because we see the rial in free fall. Trade is down some 80% for the country. The blockade is draining the regime of an estimated 400 to $500 million every single day. There's no doubt there's infrastructure damage that was caused by the 13,000 strikes that Iran absorbed over the course of that war, in addition to the economic damage that the country was already in prior to the war, much less the position it's in right now. So what is the current state internally for the country?

[E]

Definitely the regime has weakened from the blockade. This is one and second thing, even more importantly, everything related to what happened in the war itself when the Israel and the US Combined together, these attacks. So definitely the regime was weakened. But this is not the question. The question is whether the regime is willing to capitulate because of the damages that he absorbed. And the answer for that is no. So even if the blockade will work out and we'll say yes, Iran would find it very hard to store the oil and export the oil. This is not the question. The question is not whether the blockade has an impact. It has an impact, but it's not the main purpose of the blockade. The main personal blockade is to make sure that Iran will capitulate the negotiation table. And that won't happen. The Iranians, as we saw yesterday, will be willing to escalate to attack even the UAE rather than capitulate to the Iranian demand, to the US Demand. This is is the main problem that we have right now. So yes, they're weak and they've gone weakened since the beginning of the war, but at the end of the day, they're not willing to capitulate. And this is the problem that we are facing.

[A]

And you've also warned that Washington is struggling to present a credible threat. You mentioned the attacks, some 15 missiles at the UAE over the last two days. And yet the United States responding almost in a muted fashion and saying that even the attacks, forget the uae, but on US Assets did not meet the threshold for breaking the cease fire. How is that viewed within the regime?

[E]

Well, definitely they think it's a success for them. The fact that President Trump stopped the campaign or trying to operation Freedom, trying to take the tankers out from the moisturize for them, it's a success. And it's connected to the fact that they use violence. This is what they think. But even worse than that, I think that what we're seeing is strategic improvisation by the administration itself from the blockade to this kind of operation looking for a silver bullet that will change everything. It won't going to happen. The Iranian issue is too complex that you can find a solution, a silver bull solution to the problem. If the administration wants to reach an agreement with Iranians, he will have to compromise. If we return back to war, the damage will be significant in Iran and in the Gulf states. But Iran won't capitalize. This regime is willing to absorb, willing to sacrifice its own greater good, its own population for survival. And that is why everything that President Trump will threat or will even use won't change basically the situation that we have with this regime. This regime is no Venezuela. This regime is something that is unique, that the United States, I think, didn't occur in the past. This is something that you need to adjust. And as I said at the beginning, at the end of the day, if the administration wants to reach an agreement with Iran, it cannot dictate the conditions because from the Iranian standpoint, they have the upper hand.

[A]

Danny Sisrenovich, we'll have to leave it there. Thank you once again for joining the program. We really appreciate it.

[E]

Thank you.

[A]

And we'll be right back after this short break.

[D]

I'm Jack McBrayer and I am back on the hunt to find even wilder. Oh, no. Is this real?

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It is more outrageous.

[D]

You like pink?

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It's my favorite color.

[D]

Over the top houses on the market.

[B]

Oh, look at this bathroom.

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And meet the fascinating people who call these one of a kind places home. How does one obtain a caboose?

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Zillow gone Wild all new season Friday

[E]

at 9:30 on HGTV.

[A]

Now to a troubling feature of U.S. history. Blackface, a dehumanizing caricature of black Americans became a staple of entertainment in the 19th century. Our next guest argues the impacts of this derogatory practice are still being felt. In her new book, Raelyn Barnes traces the toxic roots of blackface and how it seeped into so many parts of American life. She joins Michelle Martin to discuss her 20 years of research and why this conversation is still so important today. And just a note, parts of this interview may be disturbing to some viewers.

[G]

Professor Rae Lynn Barnes, thank you so much for joining us.

[F]

Thank you for having me.

[G]

How on earth did you get interested in the subject of blackface?

[F]

Absolutely. So for me, it was. Had always been there. I grew up in Anaheim, California, right in the shadow of Disneyland, very much a union working class family. And during the 1992 LA uprisings, which spilled into Long beach and Orange County, Anaheim thought it would be a great idea to bring the school children into Disneyland as a safe place. And we were incredibly racially diverse as a class. And one of my sort of vivid memories of racial consciousness was being on Main street, usa, with my best friend, who was black. I was a little white girl, and we were watching the classic Steamboat Willie and early Mickey Mouse car. And in one of them, Mickey Mouse decides he wants to put on a minstrel show. He wants to do a reinterpretation of Harriet Beecher Stowe's Uncle Tom's Cabin. They're singing and dancing to Dixie, and he takes a stick of dynamite, puts it in his mouth and blows his face up into blackface. And we were just standing there as the city was sort of imploding. And I just remember thinking, oh, race is fake. This is made up. And from that moment on, I couldn't unsee racial presentation in blackface. But then once I got to college, I was in a history class. It was about American slavery and culture. And there's 30 books about blackface that had been written about antebellum America, so before the American Civil War. And they all argued that either at the end of the Civil War or by the turn of 1900, blackface declined, that it was subsumed into things like television and radio, but as a standalone theatrical, disappeared. And I thought, what are you talking about? I see it all the time at Disneyland and Knott's Berry Farm and in my daily life. So that really started the impetus to document how, in fact, it not only existed in the 20th century, but in the 19th century, there might be about 20,000 shows. In the 20th century, it's a million shows a year. And so that really spells.

[G]

That's crazy. Well, that's just. I mean, there are just so many things. I mean, just. But that. That right there, the fact that the number of shows actually increased. What explains that?

[F]

Yeah, and part of why I was so confused was the Jim Crow era, which starts in 1896, formally, which is an era of racial terror and legislative white supremacy in the United States. Jim Crow is the name of the most famous blackface character who comes on the stage in the United States in 1828, globalizes an American culture. By 1840. And so I thought, how could it end if the entire regime in American society is actually named after this character? So one thing that I discovered that was really critical, two things is in the 19th century, we had professional blackface celebrities, and these were truly global celebrities. So you would go to Broadway or the Bowery and you would see them perform. Whether it was standup comedy, tap dancing, banjo fiddling, but due to the incredible demand and also the explosion of multimedia technology, whether it was the invention of lithography, photography, sheet music, it starts to democratize for amateur and home use. And they're basically publishing how to blackface guides. And what's significant about that is all of a sudden, the American public shifts from being passive consumers, where they might see a show once a year, to all of a sudden being asked in places like schools or churches to learn how to physically embody their own representation of black stereotypes. And that really changes your relationship to caricature. And the other sort of second major thing that happens is during the great Depression, President Roosevelt federalizes blackface. And what I mean by that is through the works progress Administration, which is a. A brilliant program that put millions of Americans back to work, including writers, artists, composers, set designers. He felt that blackface was the one true cultural form of American entertainment that he worried was being lost during the economic collapse. And so he had the federal government go out and do what I call a blackface bailout, where he bought out all of the publishing houses, brought them under the umbrella of the federal government, and that it puts all of this material into public domain, and that's how it ends up in our school books.

[G]

He even wrote one I learned from you, but he even wrote a blackface. Okay, just, just, just. I feel like my head's going to explode, but okay, let's just welcome to it. How did the blackface thing all start?

[F]

So in 1828, a struggling actor at the time called T.D. rice was in the Ohio river valley, primarily in Kentucky, and he was backstage and he encountered an enslaved man who was disabled. And he heard him singing a song. And he was working with horses, you know, taking care of the actor's horses. And he also was disabled. And so when he would sing this song, he would spin, and it was described that he would drag his back leg. His. His back leg. There are an enormous amount of enslaved Americans who are enslaved, and their job is not working in the cotton fields. It might be that they are an enslaved fiddler or they're enslaved singer. And so a lot of world class musicians in New York, London would go down to places like New Orleans and go down to Charleston, where they could watch the slave markets. And they're basically watching performances that are a form of torture, like, you know, dance faster, jump higher in the auction block, as people are being evaluated for their physicality, for potential purchase. But what these composers and performers do is they write down what they're hearing, which are primarily black folk music, and also trying to learn the choreography, bringing it back to Broadway, mass, commercializing it, and making enormous sums of money. And so this is what happens with TD Rice. When he sees this performer, he brings it to the Bowery, to the Five Points in the North. So this is critical to the story. Blackface is a northern urban invention. It is not created in the American South. And most performances in the 19th century were what was called concert saloons. So these were all male spaces. Women could only be there if they were sex workers or if they were serving alcohol. And he performed this song called Jumping Jim Crow, where he not only performs in blackface, but also reinterprets disability. And so as he spins about in the choreography, he drags his back leg. And it was such a hit, the audience made him perform it over 50 times in a row. And there's a really famous painting where the audience rushes the stage and are trying to learn the dance right beside him. Within 10 years, we get the rise of what's called, called minstrel shows. So these are all night blackface events that have normally three parts to them. So basically the birth of American variety shows. So we see that form continue all the way up through snl. And they have minstrel troops, which are pretty much like rock bands in that they have their specializations, they have different fan bases, and they tour not just America, but the entire globe. And so their songs, written by composers like Stephen Foster, not only become critical to American cultural DNA in the 1840s, 50s and 1860s, but pretty much the English speaking world where the racial humor translates to what will become South Africa, Australia, throughout the British Empire. And my book also talks about how this takes hold in the Pacific because the United States brings it to Japan and the Japanese Empire.

[G]

Everything in this book is a revelation to me. But one of the other things is the fact that blackface was performed in the Japanese internment camps where Japanese Americans, some sort of Japanese immigrants were herded into during World War II. And they became kind of a form of entertainment in these camps.

[F]

How, why, why do you.

[G]

Why was it so popular in your. In your view?

[F]

Well, there's a lot going on the most disturbing truth is they're funny. They're very witty. Normally they are derived in wordplay. And what I always say to myself is, this would be funny if you removed the black face. Like the actual puns, the actual word play going on. But when you add the blackface, it's another layer. Because then part of the complex joke that's being made is that, unfortunately, that black Americans are so inferior and so failing at assimilation. Whether they are trying to engage with forms of technology like a telegraph or a radio. Or if they're trying to vote in a political primary. That no matter what they're doing, they're getting it slightly wrong. And so once these characters embed in American culture. We sort of have these stock caricatures that every American identifies with, knows, and can expect the tropes that they're going to engage in. I sort of describe minstrel shows like a really strange hybrid of the Daily Show. In that they are constantly talking about American political news and making it a joke. But then at the same time are mixed with something like. Like a midnight viewing of the Rocky Horror Picture Show. Where the audience also knows certain lines and knows songs and are shouting it out as they come up throughout the performance. And so there's a strange mix of both improvisation and familiarity. So, like, why did the chicken cross the road? That's a minstrel joke. The Ice Cream Truck song that we all know as a child, that is zip Coon song. That is Jim Crow's foil. So he's sort of the urban dandy. It's sort of amazing. Once you're so.

[G]

That's crazy. So you're saying the Ice Cream Truck song is actually a minstrel song?

[F]

Absolutely.

[G]

You've never seen so many of these pictures that are in your book. Why is that?

[F]

There's sort of two things that happened. One is a very successful legacy of the civil rights movement that in the 1940s, the 1960s, black women, especially black mothers in the Great Migration and also students on college campuses, were so horrified when they were integrating suburbia K through 12 schools and other forms of daily life that they had been excluded from to learn how, you know, pervasive blackface was. And they recognized that if you want to fight something like lynching or mass political disenfranchisement, Then you have to attack these caricatures, which allows Americans to psychologically feel that this exclusion is completely justified, but also merited. And so part of what happens is the pendulum swings so far that the evidence of these shows becomes considered taboo. And they're mass censored. And so one story that I tell in the introduction is I go to the Library of Congress in 2012 and I know the titles I'm looking for for these how to plays. I have figured out out through the publisher rosters what they are, but I want to go read what's actually in these plays that children throughout America were being asked to perform each year. And each item kept coming up missing on shelf, missing on shelf. And when this happened about the hundredth time, I pretty much demanded to talk to somebody and I was kind of politely interrogated about what are you doing? Why do you want to see these? What's your goals here? And so I had a very honest conversation with the curators and librarian disappeared. About an hour later, she brought back basically wagons full of this material and admitted that in 1987 she had hid it in sort of the bowels of the Library of Congress because with the invention of things like Xerox machines, the Klan in Virginia was going in and trying to mass reproduce and reanimate the blackface craze that the civil rights workers had effectively shut down. And so while we still do see these tentacles in things like Halloween costumes, the civil rights workers were completely successful in shutting down what was a multimillion dollar industry, an annual American tradition, and getting it out of the federal government and schools. And so they it's actually one of their most successful civil rights campaigns that they ever had.

[G]

And to those people who say this is just picking its sores, we don't need more division, this is best buried, just leave it in the past, we don't need to talk about this now because all it does is reawaken ill feeling at a time when we don't need that. What would you say to that?

[F]

What I've found as I've traveled the country with this book coming out is so many Americans coming up to me and saying, I experienced this as a child or my grandfather did this all the time, annually. And I have never had a place where I could talk about it. And so what I'm finding is after my book talks, Americans are sticking around afterwards and they're having interracial conversations with each other about what did this mean, why did I have to do this as a 5 year old in Jim Crow America? Why did my mother have to pull me out of a class and protest this? And so I think if we could open more spaces in America, I know, for example, in Germany and Rwanda, they are very intentionally trying to create spaces where the sort of nasty elements of their history are being openly reckoned with and talked about, and not in a sort of cancel culture sort of way, but much like blackface. To say this impacted all of us, even if you don't initially realize it, it did. So what do we do with that? And I think Americans are completely ready to have that conversation, despite what powers may be say otherwise.

[G]

Professor Raelyn Barnes, thank you so much for talking with us.

[F]

Thank you so much. It was an honor.

[A]

And that is it for now. If you ever miss our show, you can find the latest episode shortly after it airs on our plate podcast. And remember, you can always catch us online on our website and all over social media. Thanks so much for watching and goodbye. From New York,

[B]

I'm Daniel Dae Kim.

[F]

I'm going to South Korea to figure out how this small nation conquered the world with its culture. Join me and meet the artists and creators behind the phenomenon. K everything streaming May 9th on the CNN app.

[B]

Influential journalist Kara Swisher is taking a hard look at the longevity industry.

[A]

There's so much bad information that the really good information gets drowned.

[B]

The new CNN original series Kara Swisher wants to live forever now streaming on the CNN app.