Rough Seas for the Transatlantic Alliance

Summary

Podcast Summary: Amanpour – "Rough Seas for the Transatlantic Alliance"
Date: December 13, 2025
Host: Christiane Amanpour (CNN) | Guests: Celeste Wallander, Peter Frankopan, Ahmed Al Shara, Jomana Karadce, Jonathan Friedland

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Episode Overview

This episode tackles the significant turbulence currently roiling the transatlantic relationship between the US and Europe, largely in the wake of the Trump administration’s new national security strategy. Christiane Amanpour assembles leading voices from both sides of the Atlantic to dissect America’s pivot away from its traditional allies, rising tensions in Europe, and the implications in an age of resurgent nationalist politics. There are on-the-ground reports on Britain’s evolving far right and anti-immigration movements, an exclusive interview with the new President of Syria one year after Assad’s ouster, and a deep dive into resistance within Nazi Germany.

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Key Segments & Analysis

1. Transatlantic Tensions: Trump’s "America Alone" Doctrine (00:39–09:51)

Main Theme:

The Trump administration’s radical repositioning of US strategy on Europe, moving from partnership to questioning the value of the alliance, prompts discussions about the consequences for NATO, transatlantic security, and European unity.

Discussion Points:

• US Estrangement from Europe: Trump administration’s new national security strategy paints Europe as "weak, decaying," and on the brink of "civilizational erasure." (00:15–00:57)
• Inconsistencies in US Policy: Trump’s public statements and the written strategy send mixed messages about whether Europe is a crucial hard-power partner or a dispensable relic. (04:20–05:29)
• US Needs Europe: Celeste Wallander argues American security is fundamentally linked to European cooperation, citing military bases, intelligence sharing, and containment of threats from Russia. (05:53–07:11)
• European Self-Reliance? Peter Frankopan and Jonathan Friedland ask if Europe can "go it alone" amid rising doubts about America’s reliability, and whether new strategic alignments are possible or desirable. (07:11–08:43)
• Strains Over Ukraine: Fears are voiced that the US could "betray Ukraine" and that European countries are already reconsidering defense ties with America. Wallander: "We are already seeing European countries reconsider purchases of American defense... for the very concerns that Peter pointed to." (08:43)

Notable Quotes:

• Celeste Wallander on Trump’s Security Strategy:
  "It is not clear exactly what the White House strategy towards Russia is... it is saying Europe has all these assets... then you're hearing that Europe is on its way out because of immigration, because it's losing its civilizational identity." (04:20)
• Peter Frankopan on Europe’s future:
  "We've got to work out how do we deal with our defense, how do we deal with some of these existential questions too?" (07:23)
• Christiane Amanpour, closing the segment:
  "Putin's mission is also to drive a wedge between the United States and its European allies." (09:51)

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2. Syria’s Post-Assad Transition: Exclusive with President Ahmed Al Shara (12:10–20:48)

Main Theme:

Amanpour interviews Syria’s new leader, Ahmed Al Shara, reflecting on the nation’s turbulent transition, continuing external pressures (notably from Israel), internal reconciliation, and his own controversial past.

Discussion Points:

• Syria’s Return to the Global Stage: Al Shara describes reforms, rebuilding diplomatic trust, and moving beyond the "rapprochement" phase—crediting his government for international reengagement. (13:46–14:25)
• On Israel and Regional Stability: Al Shara accuses Israel of fueling instability to distract from Gaza and inflicting massive violence on Syria: "Israel has become a country that is in a fight against ghosts... we've been victim of over 1,000 airstrikes and over 400 incursions." (14:56–16:17)
• Dealing with Atrocities and Internal Divisions: Responding to massacres of minority groups post-Assad, Al Shara promises a "state of law" and governments "formed by experts, by technocrats, regardless of their ethnicity or origin." (16:58–17:50)
• Addressing His Own Militant Past & Women’s Rights: Rejects current terrorism accusations, distinguishes between fighting and "killing innocent people," and insists women’s rights in Syria are protected: "Women are empowered sort of automatically in Syrian communities... you should not fear for Syrian women, fear for Syrian men." (18:34–20:48)

Notable Quotes:

• Ahmed Al Shara on his transformation:
  "Terrorists, in my opinion, are those that kill innocent people, children and women... I have never harmed. I fought on several fronts... But I think that reality prevailed, and people now know that this description [of terrorist] is not accurate." (18:34)

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3. Britain’s New Far-Right Face: The Pink Ladies (21:14–25:24)

Main Theme:

Jomana Karadce reports from the field on the rise of "The Pink Ladies," a self-styled women’s movement exploiting safety fears to advance anti-immigration, right-wing populist themes.

Discussion Points:

• Anti-Immigrant Sentiment Masquerading as Feminism: At Pink Ladies rallies, protesters use rhetoric about protecting women and children, echoing hard-right talking points about migrants and crime. (22:03–23:36)
• Questionable Claims and Fact-Checking: Many claims made by protestors are misleading or false; Karadce notes, "two of the suspects in these five horrific murder cases are British nationals." (24:49)
• Mainstreaming the Far Right: The atmosphere at demonstrations is jovial, but concerns rise about normalization of extremism under the guise of everyday suburban anxieties. (23:36–24:26)

Notable Quotes:

• Orla Minahane, Pink Ladies/pro-Reform UK candidate:
  "How am I extremist? I'm just a mum... If that makes me a far right, then there's something very, very concerning with the rhetoric." (23:36)
• Protester:
  "We do not need to bring in more every day men from cultures... who treat women like third class citizens and who think it's acceptable to marry eight and nine year old girls." (22:26)

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4. Stories of Resistance: From Nazi Germany to Modern Venezuela (26:01–32:41, 35:44–end)

Main Theme:

Jonathan Friedland discusses his new book "The Traitor’s Circle," revealing forgotten stories of elite German internal resistance to Hitler’s regime. The episode closes with an exploration of what it means to stand up to tyranny, exemplified by Venezuela’s opposition leader María Corina Machado.

Discussion Points:

• Resisters in Nazi Germany: Friedland upends narratives of total Nazi conformity by exposing the ranks of those who resisted—at great risk—within Germany. (27:30–30:01)
• Personal and Historical Complexity: Friedland acknowledges his own family’s scars and the Jewish community's skepticism toward examining "good Germans," but insists on the importance of remembering dissent. (28:32–31:40)
• Modern Echoes – Venezuela: Amanpour recounts the courage of Nobel laureate María Corina Machado, who overcame great danger to escape Maduro’s regime and accept the Peace Prize. (35:44–end)

Notable Quotes:

• Jonathan Friedland:
  "3 million Germans...were jailed, were arrested, were detained for crimes of dissent, sometimes no more than a critical remark. And about half a million of those were killed." (27:30)
• María Corina Machado at the Nobel:
  "I am convinced that peace ultimately is an act of love, and that's what brought me here, the love of millions of Venezuelans for country, for freedom and for children." (Near episode end)

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5. Inspiration & Legacy: Harlem’s North Pole Explorer (33:16–35:38)

Main Theme:

A look back at Darryl Roberts, first black American to trek to the North Pole, and his efforts to inspire inner-city youth to dream big.

Highlights:

• Roberts endured extreme hardship on his polar journey, then returned to Harlem classrooms to tell students:
  "You can make your dreams come true if you dare to dream about those things you want to do." (34:14)

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Celeste Wallander:
  "[Trump's] national security strategy that is internally inconsistent, incoherent, and doesn't even align with what the president ... is saying." (04:20)

• Peter Frankopan:
  "We bring a lot of pieces to the party, including world-class universities, defence architecture and so on... but how it's seen from this White House is that we're not a particularly important piece on the JIGSAW puzzle." (08:01)

• Ahmed Al Shara (on women’s rights):
  "Women are empowered sort of automatically in Syrian communities... You should not fear for Syrian women, fear for Syrian men." (20:18)

• Jonathan Friedland:
  "It means about 3 million Germans...were jailed, were arrested...about half a million of those were killed." (27:30)

• Darryl Roberts:
  "I had a decision to make. Why didn't I just quit? Had a reason to, right? I might have froze my foot and had to have it cut off." (34:40)

• María Corina Machado:
  "Peace ultimately is an act of love, and that's what brought me here, the love of millions of Venezuelans..." (near episode end)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Transatlantic Alliance Crisis: 00:39–09:51
• Syrian President Interview: 12:10–20:48
• Rise of the Pink Ladies: 21:14–25:24
• German Resistance – Friedland: 26:01–32:41
• North Pole Inspiration: 33:16–35:38
• Venezuela's Peace Laureate: End (Post-35:44)

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Episode Tone and Takeaways

Amanpour’s hour is marked by urgency, intellectual rigor, and an undercurrent of unease as Western alliances fracture and nationalist politics surge. The conversations balance hard-hitting analysis and personal stories of resilience, offering listeners a comprehensive, nuanced look at a world in flux. The show closes with examples of courage and the assertion that real change often begins with just a few individuals willing to defy the prevailing tides.

Transcript

[Christiana Amanpour]

Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Amanpour Hour. Here's where we're headed. This week.

[Celeste Wallander]

Europe will not be, in my opinion.

[Christiana Amanpour]

Many of those countries will not be viable countries any longer. This week, the Trump administration has its sights set on Europe. Weak, decaying, its civilization about to be erased. What I get the View from America with Celeste Wallander, formerly of the U.S. defense Department. And from Europe with Oxford historian Peter Frankopan, then Syrian President Ahmed Al Sharar. One year after the fall of Assad. He's a friend of Trump and most world leaders, but can he unify his own people and rebuild the shattered nation? I speak to him exclusively. Also ahead now you won't stop talking. Is this a new look for Britain's free far right? Jomana Karadce meets the Pink Ladies. And then the men, women and countesses who did not fall into line. Author Jonathan Friedland reveals the hidden history of the millions of Germans who resisted the Nazis.

[Peter Frankopan]

They felt they could come together with kindred spirits, trading information, gossip even, but also know how.

[Christiana Amanpour]

Plus, a festive season trip to the North Pole. From my archive, the the Harlem man who went to the top of the world and came back again to inspire New York's school children.

[Peter Frankopan]

You can make your dreams come true if you dare to dream about those things you want to do.

[Christiana Amanpour]

Welcome to the program, everyone. I'm Christiana Wampour in London. And it's not been a pleasant week for Europe and its transatlantic relationship. The British Prime Minister Keir Starmer met with the US Ambassador for a little chat after President Trump decided to say what he really thinks about his historic allies.

[Celeste Wallander]

I think they're weak, but I also.

[Peter Frankopan]

Think that they want to be so politically correct.

[Celeste Wallander]

I think they don't know what to do. Europe doesn't know what to do.

[Christiana Amanpour]

They don't know what to do on trade, either. Unusual. And this comes after last weekend's shocker known as the Trump 2.0 National Security Strategy. It painted the continent on the brink of civilizational erasure. And it proposes that America should mount a resistance to the mainstream political party running its allied nations. It's definitely a radical departure from decades of bipartisan American consensus on the alliance. But what is it all about, really? We sought some calm analysis from both sides of the pond. Celeste Wallander, who served as assistant secretary of defense for the international security affairs under President Biden, and Peter Frankapan, professor of global history at Oxford University. Peter, you're in the studio and you are European. What's your reaction? I mean, there was the strategy document that dropped when we were all at the annual Doha Forum. And then there was doubling down in this pretty scorching interview. What's your reaction?

[Jonathan Friedland]

Well, I think it's not new. That sort of contempt I think we saw with JD Vance at Munich in March of this year.

[Christiana Amanpour]

I think the way it's now been officialized and formalized, but I think that's.

[Jonathan Friedland]

How the mainstream MAGA movement around Trump sees Europe as a decaying. That's the word he used today. It did. It's a decaying continent, which is unproductive. It's getting older, doesn't handle all of the existential questions. Right. And quite frankly, is more or less dispensable to the United States. So Trump's America first looks to Europe as it does to most of the rest of the world, which is America alone. And I guess one of the equations is, can the US do without allies and particularly without Europe? And is that realignment that you mentioned of us lining up with Russia, is that a good bet to take? Because I think history would suggest probably you need to be pretty sanguine, pretty careful about what you're doing with the big Russian bear. And the idea that we, we're the ones who are going to fail, the Russians will come out on top requires several leaps of faith.

[Christiana Amanpour]

That's interesting, Celeste Wallander, to the very question that's been posed here, can America do without its European allies? And yes, Trump, for the longest time has hated the eu. Remember, he said it was created just to destroy America, or whatever the right words are. Can it do without the allies?

[Celeste Wallander]

Well, it is really amazing that you played that clip from President Trump because his own national security strategy, the strategy that was released last week, states that Europe has a hard power advantage over Russia. So what I think you're seeing is a national security strategy that is internally inconsistent, incoherent, and doesn't even align with what the president of the United States is saying. And so it is not clear exactly what the White House strategy towards Russia is, because on the one hand, it is saying Europe has all these assets and should be confident and able to take care of Russia. And then you're hearing that Europe is on its way out because of immigration, because it's losing itsagain. The national security strategy refers to Europe losing its civilizational identity, as if that, you know, is something that is meaningful in a moment where Russia is using hard power to attack a European country, Ukraine. And so it's really hard to even grasp onto something to disagree with, because the national Security strategy is all over the map.

[Christiana Amanpour]

So just, I mean, I'd asked also whether the US can do without its, you know, longtime allies in Europe. And also you said, you know, it's all these MAGA allies around Trump that have their views. Some people see Stephen Miller in there, other people see J.D. vance in there, and as you say, it is very inconsistent. But on the question of alliance, can the US do it alone?

[Celeste Wallander]

The US Needs Europe for the assets that Europe brings to the table. America is, of course, has the largest conventional military force in the world. But in order to be able to defend and deter, we need to have military bases, overflight permissions from countries across the globe, and in particular in Europe. Europe helps the United States to support goals in the Middle east, access to be able to support allies throughout other parts of the world. And we've for, for example, in the operations against Iran's nuclear program, relied upon US Military assets based in Europe. The US Relies upon Europe to defend our homeland, to be able to prevent Russian nuclear submarines from being able to evade detection as they move through the North Atlantic to patrol off of the American North Atlantic coast. So this is why NATO is actually in American national security interests. It's not altruism, it is national. It has been for 80 years. And the Trump White House just seems to lose sight of the reason why NATO was created. It was created to help protect America.

[Christiana Amanpour]

Now, Peter Frankopan, can the Europe go it alone without the United States? And how long can or should European leaders put up with this unseemly abuse?

[Jonathan Friedland]

One of the first questions is whether which parts of what Trump is saying or the defense strategy, security strategy is saying are fair and right. But clearly what you have is a and in Trump's global vision, there's no space for Latin America, there's nothing for Africa. In this document, the Middle east is significantly downgraded. And so the way that the US Is seeing the world is a hierarchy with China at the top as the significant global competitor. And then how Russia fits into that axis here in Europe, I think we've got to work out how do we deal with our defense, how do we deal with some of these existential questions too? And it's absolutely true that we bring a lot of pieces to the party, including world class universities, defence architecture and so on, that we're a key part of and intelligence.

[Peter Frankopan]

Absolutely.

[Jonathan Friedland]

There's no question that we are part of those equations. But how it's seen from this White House is that we're not a particularly important piece on the JIGSAW puzzle board. And unless we can help navigate the US through some of these discussions, probably we're going to be pushed out of some of these discussions, too, in the future.

[Christiana Amanpour]

Macron President Macron said this week it was reported that he had warned other European leaders that Washington might soon betray Ukraine. And you had said earlier, beware the Europe you wish for in your article, I believe.

[Jomana Karadce]

So.

[Christiana Amanpour]

To continue this bit, Europeans are growing a little bit wary, aren't they, of the United States. Can you see any sort of bifurcation?

[Celeste Wallander]

Well, we are already seeing European countries reconsider purchases of American defense production of defense systems for the very concerns that Peter pointed to. So we're already starting to see that effect. And it is clearly the case that any kind of a peace settlement between Russia and Ukraine that the White House prioritizes and has said that is a major objective of President Trump depends on Europe being on board. It is simply not. The terms that have been discussed are not enforceable or implementable without European agreement. So while the United States may I hope we do not take a position of throwing betraying Ukraine and throwing them under the bus and letting the Kremlin just steamroll over the country and reacquire its sphere of influence in Ukraine, in fact, that really can't happen the way that the Kremlin wants unless Europe agrees to it. So I do think we are already seeing those kinds of divergences and we're seeing the effect of the United States not taking Europe seriously.

[Christiana Amanpour]

Peter Frankopan, Celeste Wallander, thank you very much. Really interesting to get your perspectives on all of this. And as analysts have been telling us throughout this war, Putin's mission is also to drive a wedge between the United States and its European allies. Coming up next, a Syrian miracle celebrating the first year out of the brutal, warmongering Assad dictatorship. But it's not all milk and honey. My conversation with their new president, Ahmed Al Shara. And later in the program, the secret history of millions of Germans who defied the Nazis in World War II. We talked to author Jonathan Fried. Hey, Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. You know, one of the perks about.

[Jonathan Friedland]

Having four kids that you know about.

[Christiana Amanpour]

Is actually getting a direct line to the big man up north.

[Jonathan Friedland]

And this year, he wants you to.

[Christiana Amanpour]

Know the best gift that you can give someone is the gift of Mint Mobile's unlimited wireless for $15 a month.

[Jonathan Friedland]

Now, you don't even need to wrap it.

[Christiana Amanpour]

Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment.

[Jomana Karadce]

Of $45 for a three month plan equivalent to $15 per month required new customer offer for first three months only. Speed slow after 35 gigabytes if network taxes and fees extra. Cmintmobile.com this year, CNN podcasts produced more than 170,000 minutes of content covering breaking news, investigations, interviews and everything in between. From the headlines that start your day.

[Christiana Amanpour]

With the five things you need to know.

[Jomana Karadce]

Hey everyone, it's Audie to conversations that.

[Christiana Amanpour]

Change how we see the world. ChatGPT says the word delve at way.

[Jomana Karadce]

Higher rates than usual.

[Christiana Amanpour]

What etymologist was like.

[Jomana Karadce]

Let's figure that out with deep investigations that dig beneath the headlines. What happened to James Gibson was more than violence at the hands of police and human experiences that remind us of what matters most.

[Christiana Amanpour]

Hey, I'm Anderson Cooper. On my podcast All There Is, we explore grief and loss in all its complexities.

[Jomana Karadce]

Through carpool, pickup lines, airport waits, morning commutes or evening walks, you chose to spend your time with us and for that we're grateful. So from all of us at CNN Podcasts, here's to another year of stories that matter. Thank you for listening.

[Christiana Amanpour]

Welcome back to the program. One year ago this week, Syrian dictator Bashar al Assad fled the country, ending 13 years of civil war and decades of his family's brutal, repressive dictatorship. Syrians have been celebrating the anniversary of their liberation even as questions clearly remain about the unity of the nation and what the future holds. The man who's tasked with that huge responsibility is Ahmed Al Shara, the opposition leader and former Al Qaeda militant once known by his nom de guerre, Abu Mohamed al Jelani. Now he is President Ahmed Al Shara. He's undoubtedly an international darling right now with a visit to the White House, where President Trump lifted some sanctions which are crucial to Syria's economic revival. And just this week, the US Congress moved to repeal the Tough Caesar Law sanctions on Syria. But a United nations commission still warns that Syria's transition remains fragile. In a rare conversation, I spoke with Al Shara at the Doha Forum in Qatar through several hard working translators, as you'll hear, you, Mr. President, have brought Syria out of its international isolation. You've been here, you've been there. You've been in the White House. You've been at the UN you have been all over the place. Let's start by asking you whether you believe that Syria is fully into and integrated into the international community and whether you have hope that your economy is on the way to being fixed.

[Ahmed Al Shara]

This time last year. Yes, you were at the Doha Forum and We were getting ready to storm Damascus and we probably changed the plans for the Doha Forum back then as we were advancing militarily on Damascus. Over the past year, Syria managed to regain a large number of its regional and international relations and ties. And I think we have gone beyond the rapprochement phase and everything we promised, I believe that we've kept since we entered Damascus. And this has managed to build trust between us and a large number of regional international players. I believe we are definitely on the right path.

[Christiana Amanpour]

I've talked to several officials here and before I got here, as we know, Israel continues military operations on your country and it has demanded, I think you can correct me if I'm wrong, sort of a demilitarized zone all the way from Damascus to the border. There are those who don't believe that Israel has an interest in a unified Syria. What do you think Israel's objectives are in your country?

[Ahmed Al Shara]

Israel, in managing its crises in the region, often exports crises to other countries and tries to run away from the horrifying massacres it committed in Gaza. And it does so by attempting to export crises. Israel has become a country that is in a fight against ghosts. They justify everything using their security concerns and they take October 7th and extrapolate it to everything that is happening around them. I believe that since we arrived in Damascus, we send positive messages regarding regional peace and stability. And we've said very frankly that Syria will be a country of stability and we are not concerned in being a country that exports conflict, including to Israel. However, in return, Israel has met us with extreme violence and Syria has suffered massive violations of our airspace. And we've been victim of over 1,000 airstrikes and over 400 incursions, the last of which was the massacre that Israel committed in Beijing that left over 20 dead. So what we try to do is convince powerful regional players and powerful international players. The entire world today supports Syria and its demands. When we demand Israel to go back to the pre December 8 lines.

[Christiana Amanpour]

In March, more than 1,400 Alawites, mostly civilians, were killed along the coast. The UN called it possible war crimes. In July, there were hundreds of Druze and people killed as well, and many, many displaced. Can you tell those people from this seat what you will do to make them feel part of a unified Syria and potentially not make them pay for being supporters of the previous regime? I know how these things happened. I was in Iraq when there was the US intervention. I saw what happened happened on the ground when one party felt victorious and another party didn't.

[Ahmed Al Shara (translator or alternate speaker)]

There were confrontations. It is true. We have established a truth finding committee. We know that there are some crimes that were perpetrated in the coast or in Suida, as you said. But this is, of course, this is a negative thing. But despite the atrocity of what happened, and we are not justifying anything here, I insist on the fact that we do not accept what happened. But I say that Syria is a state of law. And the law rules in Syria, and the law is the only way to preserve everybody's rights. I think that governments and authorities should be formed by experts, by technocrats, regardless of their ethnicity or origin.

[Christiana Amanpour]

And finally, as you know, you have a past of being a terrorist. I mean, you worked for Al Qaeda. What do you say to people in this room in foreign capitals about where your heart and your mind and your allegiance is? Now we see that in parts of Syria, not only, you know, the T word, but also the Islamic caliphate word. Okay, there's no Islamic caliphate in Syria. Women seem to be fairly liberated in quite a lot of the areas. What would you say to maybe some guests sitting in this room who have yet to fully empower and some who absolutely deny women's rights?

[Ahmed Al Shara (translator or alternate speaker)]

Terrorists, in my opinion, are those that kill innocent people, children and women, and that use illegitimate means to harm people. If we try to extrapolate this description on several countries in the world, we find that the number of victims in Gaza, 60,000 people. Most of them are innocent. The Syrian regime, during 14 years, has killed more than 1 million Syria. And until now, you have two 50,000 disappeared persons with their destinies unknown or their fate unknown. This regime is not called a terrorist. We saw wars in Afghanistan. All of those that were killed were. And it is the killers that describe others. Now, on a personal level, I have never harmed. I fought on several fronts, and I fought for more than 20 years with honor. But I think that reality prevailed, and people now know that this description is not accurate. That is why I am no longer listed as a terrorist by the Security Council.

[Christiana Amanpour]

And you'll guarantee women's rights? That's a separate question. But women are fully empowered.

[Ahmed Al Shara]

There are a number of headlines that are being circulated, but women are empowered sort of automatically in Syrian communities. So I believe Syrian women are empowered. Their rights are protected and guaranteed. And we constantly try to ensure that women are fully participating in our government and our parliament as well. And I believe you should not fear for Syrian women, fear for Syrian men.

[Christiana Amanpour]

So he clearly wowed that crowd. And the president also told me Syria will have democratic elections in four Years after they hash out a whole new constitution for the nation. Coming up, they are the grassroots group gaining traction as the new face of Britain's anti immigration movement. The Pink Ladies claim to be standing for women's safety, but is their message telling a different story? I report after the break.

[Jomana Karadce]

I need to get the army involved. We're being invaded.

[Christiana Amanpour]

Welcome back. From mass demonstrations to embracing nationalistic language, far right sentiment is sweeping Britain. National polls show that anti immigration party reform Ukraine, formerly known as the Brexit Party, is presenting a serious challenge to the Labour government of Kia Starma. And as they aim to broaden their appeal, a new group is emerging. The Pink Ladies. They say they're standing up for the safety of women and children. But when our Jomana Karache went to one of their pink rallies, it didn't take long to see how their campaign echoes familiar hard right rhetoric. Now you won't stop talking.

[Jomana Karadce]

Meet the Pink Ladies, a new face of Britain's growing anti immigration movement. We went to one of their pink protests just outside London to try and understand what this is all about. We've got our own scumbags, our own predators and our own sex pests. We do not need to bring in more every day men from cultures that.

[Christiana Amanpour]

Do not think like we do, who.

[Jomana Karadce]

Treat women like third class citizens and who think it's acceptable to marry eight.

[Christiana Amanpour]

And nine year old girl.

[Jomana Karadce]

This is not racism, they say, and they're not the far right. But a lot of what we heard sounded an awful lot like the far right's narrative. They need to get the army involved. We're being invaded.

[Christiana Amanpour]

It's bloody terrible. It's all over Europe, you know, being invaded by illegal migrants.

[Jomana Karadce]

Advocacy groups say exploiting the issue of violence against women and genuine safety concerns is a common far right tactic. The Pink Ladies say they're grassroots women concerned about mass migration and what it means for their safety and the future of their country, putting out catchy tunes like this one that market their agenda. The so far small group emerged a few months ago at a time of rising tensions over migration. With the far right seizing on that. A lot of people looking at what's happening in the UK from the outside, they might say that a lot of the things that you are saying are the talking points of the far right. What, what is far right? Far right is extremists. Far left is extremism. How am I extremist? I'm just a mum who's worked her whole life, who's bringing up three children, who lives in suburbia. I don't want my daughter or to be sexually assaulted by men that have come over to this country that we've got no, no background checks on. If that makes me a far right, then there's something very, very concerning with the rhetoric. Right, That's Orla Minahane. She's a local candidate for the right wing populist party Reform uk. Amid this show of pink solidarity and what was mostly a jovial and at times surreal as atmosphere, we heard from women worried about their safety and that of their daughters.

[Christiana Amanpour]

Women are scared to walk anywhere and.

[Jomana Karadce]

You know, we live in a small town. This is the seriousness of what we're dealing with. The government doesn't publish detailed figures on crimes committed by asylum seekers. But there have been some high profile cases that have put women and girls on edge. On top of that, there are the twisted facts that go unchecked. These five women have died, have been.

[Christiana Amanpour]

Murdered at the hands of an illegal migrant catastrophe that this government is letting happen.

[Jomana Karadce]

Except two of the suspects in these five horrific murder cases are British nationals. But for Laura and others, what they heard here was enough for them to make up their minds. What is it that is making you feel unsafe? Well, it's all the rapes, murders, you know, what they've been talking about today, Germanic race. Cnn, Chelmsford, England.

[Christiana Amanpour]

And this week, the far right French political leader Jordan Bardella, also head in the polls, came to London to broaden his appeal. Meeting with Brexit's Reform Now, Nigel Farage explaining just what he likes about Trump 2.0, officially moving towards parties like his national rally, formerly the anti Semitic national front of Jean Marie Le Pen. Coming up, we step back into 1940s Berlin with journalist and author Jonathan Friedland to discuss his new book, the Traitor's Circle. It's a story of resistance inside Nazi Germany.

[Peter Frankopan]

It's true that most fell in line, but some did not. And that makes the heroism all the more interesting. Extraordinary.

[Christiana Amanpour]

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[Jomana Karadce]

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[Christiana Amanpour]

On Actors premiere exclusively on CNN.

[Jonathan Friedland]

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[Jomana Karadce]

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[Christiana Amanpour]

Welcome back. It's a question that in many ways defined the 20th century. And it's becoming more and more relevant today. Who submits to tyranny and who stands up against it? In his new book, the Traitor's Circle, journalist Jonathan Friedland examines that question through an extraordinary chapter of Nazi history that had all but been forgotten. At his heart is a group of well connected Privileged Germans who chose to risk everything to conspire against Hitler and his regime. That is until a shocking betrayal from within. Jonathan Friedland joined me here in London to tell me all about this edge of your seat. Whodunnit. I wanna start with what you've taken on as a bit of a mission, I think, because I think you've said that. You know, there are many stories of resistors, but almost no stories of internal German, maybe even members of the Nazi party, I don't know. But German resistance to Hitler's regime. Tell me about that.

[Peter Frankopan]

Yeah, it's true. I think we have an image of resistance often associated with the French resistance. Putting bombs on railway line and on bridges and so on in Germany. I think people know about the von Stauffenberg plot. July 20, Valkyrie, the movie with a slightly miscast Tom Cruise. People know about that or they know about the White Rose movement. Sophie Scholl. And that's really it. They think after that all the other Germans pretty well lined up behind Adolf Hitler. And look, that is mainly true. 95%, according to an estimate by an Allied liberator war crimes investigator in 1945, fell in line. But it means about 3 million Germans, which is not nothing. That's not nothing, were jailed, were arrested, were detained for crimes of dissent, sometimes no more than a critical remark. And about half a million of those were killed.

[Christiana Amanpour]

I mean, that's really important to hear. Cause I remember for me Daniel Goal Hagen's book, you know, Hitler's Willing Executioners is what I have in my mind. And to hear this is very rare.

[Peter Frankopan]

And I grew up with that narrative quite directly. My mother, a full boycott of German goods in our house. No VW car, no Siemens dishwasher because her own mother had been killed by the last rocket of the Blitz to fall on London. The last V2 killed her mother when my mother was just eight years old. And after that she was left with a kind of feeling that there were no good Germans. Every last one of them was implicated very particularly in the crime of the Holocaust. The bomb that killed my mother's mother, took out a building in London's East End, killed 133 people. 120 of them were Jews. Just a coincidence, but it meant, as I put in the book, my mother was not a Holocaust survivor, but she felt the breath of the Shoah on her neck. And it meant she felt that there were irredeemable, there was an irredeemable guilt about the Germans, every last one of them. I then came across this story and thought. It's true that most fell in line, but some did not. And that makes the heroism all the more extraordinary.

[Christiana Amanpour]

Your book begins, I mean, it's a thriller as well, at an afternoon tea party in Berlin, as we said in 9.43. So the party group, partygoers are a group that could come from maybe an Agatha Christie novel. Members of the German aristocracy, as you say, of the diplomatic corps, high placed government officials. So what made this. We're now talking about the story of your book, which is a true story. What made this tea party special and how does it play into your story?

[Peter Frankopan]

The grouping was, in a way, informal. There were all these overlapping social circles in the Germany of that time. And one of the key issues when any more than two people met was trust. Could you trust this other person you were speaking to here? The bonds of class played an important part. These were really posh people here. There wasn't just one countess in this group, there were two. There was a former top Mandarin from the Ministry of Finance. Those were people with, you know, landed estates and so on. So there was a sense that we know each other. You know, there were two people there. One her father had served under in Bismarck's cabinet, the other his uncle. They knew each other. That was good enough. So what they had in common was this defiance or resistance of Adolf Hitler. They felt they could come together with kindred spirits, trading information, gossip even, but also know how on how to do what they were doing. What they did not know is that someone sitting around that table who they thought was one of their own, thought was a kindred spirit, was about to betray all the rest of the Gazette.

[Christiana Amanpour]

And had infiltrated specifically.

[Peter Frankopan]

That's right. I mean, because it's a whodunit. I don't want to give away too much. I don't want to give away too much. I want readers to be reading this thinking, is it the former model? Is it the doctor? Is it the headmistress? Who is it?

[Christiana Amanpour]

You know, you've written this about these people, Germans who, like your mother, wanted to believe that everybody was guilty, et cetera. Given the real politicization and the terrible feelings that there are all over the place right now, and everything is weaponized. Do you get any backlash for this? Are there people who say to you, how can you, you know, a member of the Jewish community actually tell these stories?

[Peter Frankopan]

A few people have wondered about it, saying, what would my mother think about this? They haven't said it necessarily in a hostile way, but I think my. But they have asked it And I think that there is, I hope that there is something sort of healing about somebody who, you know, a Jew like me who was raised on those stories in no way exonerating the German nation. I mean, that fact I mentioned before, 3 million of dissenters is a big figure, but so is the 95% who stayed in line and raised their right hand in a Hitler salute. Both are true, but I think we don't do any service to history if we exclude and just pretend those people who were brave and defiant, who took enormous risks where the only possibility was downside for them. They had nothing to gain. These people were of such established position, they would have been left alone. They would have been fine if they'd just kept their heads down.

[Christiana Amanpour]

I want to know much more, but our time is up for this time and really, really an edge of your seat tale and important And Jonathan Friedland, thank you so much.

[Peter Frankopan]

Thanks so much.

[Christiana Amanpour]

The book's out now and it's a brilliant stocking filler in case anyone out there is struggling with Christmas lists. Talking of which, from my archives, a festive trip to the North Pole, how one man from Harlem took a record breaking trek to the top of the world and came back to encourage school children in New York.

[Peter Frankopan]

I was hoping that I could inspire them to continue to try to take on greater challenges.

[Christiana Amanpour]

Welcome back. All over the Christmas loving world, wherever you look, the decorations are seriously up. The old and the very young are surely spending a lot of time thinking about Santa Claus and maybe even sending letters to his place in the North Pole. This week in my archives, we found one man who I had met nearly 40 years ago who had trekked all the way to the top of the world, not just to see Santa, maybe not to see Santa at all, but to challenge himself and urge others on. Darryl Roberts was the first black man ever to do it. And when he arrived back in New York City, he used his experience to inspire school children to dream big and work hard. Last March, 24 year old Darryl Roberts spent nearly two months walking to the North Pole. He was the first American and the youngest person ever to do so. And today he is bringing that experience to some inner city classrooms along with this message that you can make your.

[Peter Frankopan]

Dreams come true if you dare to dream about those things you want to do.

[Christiana Amanpour]

This class full of 8th graders sat in rapt attention as Darrell told them tales of his personal journey. Enduring temperatures of 75 degrees below zero, trekking 12 hours a day, lugging 60 pounds of equipment on his back, fueled by little more than his dreams, never once thinking of abandoning his feet, even when his foot got severely frostbitten.

[Peter Frankopan]

I had a decision to make. Why didn't I just quit? Had a reason to, right? I might have froze my foot and had to have it cut off.

[Christiana Amanpour]

But he made it to the top of the world. And now he is back telling youngsters that they too can make it to the top of theirs. It was a message that hit home. So you want to do something, you gotta like, watch on, try, keep trying, keep trying. And all too often, we talk to them about their dreams and about striving for excellence, but it's not real to them. Now, here's someone who really had a dream and he really achieved this dream. Someone who struggled and survived in the same neighborhoods as these children. Someone who, like many of them, grew up in a single parent home, cared for and inspired by his mother, who had him and a brother by the time she was 18 and was divorced at 20.

[Peter Frankopan]

And she went back and got her high school equivalency diploma, went on to college and graduated college and then went on to law school and graduated law school.

[Christiana Amanpour]

That's with two kids at 17 or.

[Peter Frankopan]

18, growing up in Harlem without, without.

[Christiana Amanpour]

A father, I learned to never give up. And no matter what nobody says, to always be your best. A lesson that says ordinary people can achieve extraordinary goals, that anyone can make it to their own normal. So I met a lot of cool people and learned a lot of valuable lessons when I was just a cub reporter back then in New York. And when we come back, an international case study in courage. Venezuela's opposition leader in hiding. Maria Corinna Machado defies the odds to make it to Norway as she is awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. That's after the break. And finally, another story of resistance and bravery. All eyes were on Oslo this week, and the international community was on tenterhooks wondering whether Maria Corinna Machado would be able to accept her Nobel Peace Prize in person. The committee said the Venezuelan opposition leader faced, quote, extreme danger to get there. She had been hiding inside her country from the dictator Maduro and his henchmen since last summer. Now, for some, this laureate was a controversial choice because she is also an enthusiastic supporter of US Military intervention into her country. In the end, though, she missed the ceremony, yet she had defied the odds to escape Venezuela and make it to Norway. Here's some of what she said on a phone call to let the committee know that she was on her way. So many people that, that risked their lives in order for me to arrive in Oslo, and I am very grateful to them. And this is a measure of what this recognition means to the Venezuelan people. Her daughter accepted the prize on her behalf, but she says the real gift was seeing her mother for the first time in two years. When Machado finally reached Oslo, here's what the latest Nobel Peace Prize laureate had to say for herself. I am convinced that peace ultimately is an act of love, and that's what brought me here, the love of millions of Venezuelans for country, for freedom and for children. And I believe there's no other generation in the history of Venezuela that loves more freedom, our family and our soul or territory. The possibility of actually being in your homeland, in moving freely in your homeland, because we have lost that, that's all we have time for. Don't forget, you can find all of our shows online as podcasts, @cnn.com audio and on all other major platforms. I'm Christian Amanpour in London. Thank you for watching and we'll see you all again again next week.