Amanpour – "Russia's War in Ukraine, Four Years Later"

CNN Podcasts | February 20, 2026
Host: Christiane Amanpour

Episode Overview

This episode reflects on four years of Russia’s ongoing war in Ukraine—a conflict that has drastically shaped global geopolitics, tested Western unity, and challenged concepts of democracy. Christiane Amanpour's primary guest is acclaimed historian Serhii Plokhy, who discusses his new book, David and Goliath, through the lens of Ukraine’s extraordinary resistance and the larger historical stakes. The episode also explores the contemporary stage revival of High Noon as a parable for modern democratic and societal courage, and features a sobering interview with Emily Galvin Almanza on systemic flaws in the U.S. criminal justice system.

Main Segment: Ukraine’s War – History, Resistance, and Consequence

Guest: Serhii Plokhy, Professor at Harvard University, Ukrainian Historian

• Book discussed: David and Goliath

1. The "David and Goliath" Parallel

[03:06–04:11]

• Plokhy defines Ukraine as "David", Russia as "Goliath".

  “David clearly is Ukraine under the circumstances. And Goliath is Russia, the Russian Federation. …No one expected Ukraine to last for more than three or four days… Ukraine is still standing.”
  (Serhii Plokhy, 03:24)

• The resilience of Ukraine in the face of Russia’s overwhelming power shapes the book's title.

2. Ukraine’s Unexpected Resistance

[04:11–07:03]

• Amanpour recounts Ukraine's surprising counteroffensive (Kyiv, Bucha, Kharkiv) after Russia's initial advances.
• Plokhy credits Ukrainian spirit and early advances to both sheer will and new military strategies.
• Warns that Russia’s nuclear threats in late 2022 led Western allies to slow military support, stalling Ukraine’s progress:

  “If the Russian blackmail, nuclear blackmail wouldn’t work back in the fall of 2022, by now we would have this war over and reconstruction of Ukraine underway.”
  (Serhii Plokhy, 06:52)

3. The Enduring Russian Nuclear Threat

[07:03–10:01]

• US administration and its allies (notably Europe and Germany) became more cautious in supplying weapons.
• Plokhy points out Ukraine’s ongoing endurance as a “miracle,” but emphasizes the role of technology—particularly drones and AI—in equalizing the fight.

  “Ukrainians like David are using new technology… Artificial intelligence is a big part of this war.”
  (Serhii Plokhy, 09:04)

4. The Historical Narrative Driving Vladimir Putin

[10:01–12:41]

• Amanpour raises how Russia frames the war historically, offering lectures on “root causes,” demanding maximalist concessions.
• Plokhy:

  “This war… started a few months after Putin published… an essay …where the argument is that Russians and Ukrainians are one of the same people.”
  (Serhii Plokhy, 11:00)

• Putin’s true motivation is to erase Ukrainian independent identity. NATO’s eastward growth is used as a pretext, he argues:

  “If NATO would be really a deciding factor… after Finland joined NATO, …at least half of the Russian army [would be] withdrawn from Ukraine… No one soldier was withdrawn.”
  (Serhii Plokhy, 11:46)

5. War as the “Last Battle of Empire”

[13:04–14:45]

• Plokhy connects the Ukraine war to prior imperial disintegrations (Ottoman, Austria-Hungary).
• He traces the destruction of the Soviet Union directly to Ukraine’s 1991 referendum.

  “The fall of the Soviet Union really depended on referendum for independence in Ukraine. …The fate of the post-Soviet space, post imperial space, depends on how the war in Ukraine will go.”
  (Serhii Plokhy, 14:28)

6. Nuclear Weapons—Past Choices, Present Risks

[14:45–18:27]

• Amanpour revisits Ukraine’s 1990s denuclearization under the Budapest Memorandum, playing Bill Clinton’s 2023 reflection:

  “No, because at the time I had reason to believe we could build a world with fewer nuclear weapons. …But I regret what happened.”
  (Bill Clinton, via Amanpour, 15:30)

• Plokhy criticizes Western naïveté:

  “You can’t leave a country that unprotected and remove deterrent and then hope that everything will turn out fine and… later regret that it didn’t turn out that way.”
  (Serhii Plokhy, 17:48)

7. Personal Stakes: Life in Zaporizhzhia

[17:59–20:11]

• Having grown up near Europe's largest nuclear power plant (now under Russian occupation), Plokhy voices “disbelief… anger… overwhelming emotions” about Russian threats.
• He stresses the greatest nuclear threat is a power plant accident, not a deliberate strike:

  “My feeling is that …the most immediate threat comes from the Russian control of the nuclear power plant, which now has no access to sufficient water after the Kakhovka Dam was blown up…”
  (Serhii Plokhy, 19:33)

Notable Quotes

• On Unexpected Ukrainian Resilience:

  "Ukraine is still standing. So that's where the idea for the title of the book comes from."
  (Serhii Plokhy, 03:24)

• On the Role of Allies:

  "The question was not David being strong enough... The question was the allies that certainly reconsidered the way how they were supplying and supporting Ukraine."
  (Serhii Plokhy, 06:26)

• On Historical Causes:

  "The root causes of this war for [Putin] is the existence of Ukraine, of Ukrainian independent state, but even more Ukrainian nation."
  (Serhii Plokhy, 11:27)

• On Post-Imperial Stakes:

  "The fate of the post-Soviet space, post imperial space, depends also on how the war in Ukraine will go."
  (Serhii Plokhy, 14:35)

• On Nuclear Security Guarantees:

  "You can't leave a country that unprotected and remove deterrent and then hope that everything will turn out fine..."
  (Serhii Plokhy, 17:47)

[20:23–37:43]

Art, Democracy, and Moral Courage: "High Noon" on Stage

Guests: Billy Crudup and Denise Gough, Actors

1. Relevance of “High Noon” as an Allegory

• Amanpour discusses the new West End stage adaptation of the 1952 classic, underlining its themes of silence, division, and moral courage amid societal polarization.

• Crudup links the lawlessness of the Old West and America’s current polarization:

  "So the Wild west is a perfect metaphor for that. That land was being developed by people ...who hadn't agreed upon how to collectively live a civil society."
  (Billy Crudup, 23:30)

2. Political Parallels

• The play’s origins during the McCarthy era resonate today, with both actors and Amanpour drawing parallels between blacklisting, cowardice, and current threats to democracy and free speech.

• Gough underlines community and activism:

  "But then great writing is also timeless... this idea of community, what we're willing to do for the people that we love and also the greater community, the global community..."
  (Denise Gough, 27:07)

• Crudup on courage vs. cowardice:

  "When viewed from a certain vantage point, the movie itself isn't about courage. It isn't about one man standing. It's about capricious cowardice..."
  (Billy Crudup, 28:39)

3. Current Creative Environment and Free Speech

• The discussion turns to creative platforms and free expression, with both actors expressing a responsibility—and occasional fear—to speak out.

• Gough voices anxiety over increasing self-censorship among artists:

  "I find it sad that artists ...find themselves not able to speak up because of what might happen. I find that really frightening."
  (Denise Gough, 34:19)

[38:57–53:41]

The Price of Mercy: Systemic Failure in US Justice

Guest: Emily Galvin Almanza, Former Public Defender
Interviewer: Michelle Martin

1. The Case Against the System

• Almanza’s experiences reveal that pre-trial punishment compels innocent people to plead guilty, and minor missteps become serious charges due to system incentives:

  “The pretrial process is so punishing that people will do extreme things just to end it.”
  (Emily Galvin Almanza, 48:33)

• On the bias toward severe charges:

  “As long as we have prosecutors incentivized to maximize the number of convictions... you are going to see prosecutors who focus on convictions over justice.”
  (Emily Galvin Almanza, 46:01)

2. Examples of Junk and Wrongful Cases

• Almanza recounts real stories (Janelle and the insurance fraud accusation, a child charged for defending a sibling) showing how the poor and marginalized are disproportionately criminalized.

3. The Hidden Cost and Plea-Driven System

• Most cases never reach trial—over 90% result in pleas, many under duress.

  “A startling number [of wrongful convictions] were guilty pleas, where someone pleaded guilty to a horrifying crime they did not commit.”
  (Emily Galvin Almanza, 48:32)

4. Practical Reform Ideas

• Almanza advocates for practical, immediate policies, like free bus fares (crime prevention and fairer access), and better public defense resources.
• The little things—affordable transit, easier court attendance, opportunity for restorative justice—can relieve systemic pressure.

5. Why It Matters for Everyone

• Half of Americans have had a loved one incarcerated, and structural impunity at the lower court level enables abuses higher up.
• Almanza argues understanding systemic failures is essential to changing them:

  “Understanding how we got here is a really good way of understanding what we need to do to get out of here.”
  (Emily Galvin Almanza, 53:18)

Key Timestamps for Major Segments

• [03:06–20:11] — Amanpour with Serhii Plokhy: Ukraine’s war, history, resilience, and the threat of nuclear escalation.
• [22:48–37:43] — "High Noon": Art as a reflection of politics, courage, and the defense of law and community.
• [38:57–53:41] — Emily Galvin Almanza on the U.S. criminal justice system, wrongfully accused, plea bargains, and paths to practical reform.

Noteworthy Moments

• Plokhy’s argument that Putin’s war aims are rooted not in NATO expansion but in a denial of Ukrainian national identity (11:00–12:41).
• First-hand stories from Emily Galvin Almanza on the ordinary injustices that shape American courts (41:49–44:28).
• Vivid connections drawn between artistic courage during McCarthyism and today’s struggles for free expression (26:26–29:45).

Episode Themes & Takeaways

• Ukraine’s survival is both a historic marvel and a test for global democracy.
• Underlying historical motives—more than geopolitics or security—are driving Russia’s war.
• Both the war in Ukraine and debates over art in society highlight the fragile state of democratic courage and community.
• America’s justice system is burdened with process-driven punishment and fails at both justice and safety, especially for the most vulnerable.

This episode of Amanpour is a rich, multi-faceted exploration of the endurance and fragility of democracy—whether examined through the battlefield of Ukraine, the stage of a London theater, or the corridors of American criminal courts.