Amanpour Podcast Summary
Episode: South African Foreign Minister Ronald Lamola
Date: November 19, 2025
Host: Christiane Amanpour, CNN International
Guests: Ronald Lamola (South African Foreign Minister), Rev. Alexander Santora, Dr. Elizabeth Kolbert, and more
Episode Overview
This episode explores South Africa’s pivotal moment as host of the first G20 summit on African soil, amidst a U.S. diplomatic boycott, controversy over Palestinian arrivals from Gaza, and pressing global crises like climate change and immigration. The conversation spans interviews with South Africa’s Foreign Minister Ronald Lamola, a frontline American Catholic priest on mass immigration raids, and climate journalist Elizabeth Kolbert.
1. The G20 Summit in South Africa and U.S. Boycott
[01:00–06:08]
Key Topics:
- Historic G20 in Johannesburg: First held in Africa, opportunity to spotlight African priorities: economic stability, climate finance, AI, critical minerals, and global south development.
- American Boycott: President Trump, Vice President Vance, and Secretary of State Rubio are absent, with Trump decrying South Africa's policies toward its white population.
Notable Quotes:
- Trump’s statement [01:59]:
“I'm not going to South Africa for the G20 because I think their policies ... on the extermination of people are unacceptable.”
- Ronald Lamola [03:38]:
“This platform offers us an opportunity to bring to the world issues that we are disproportionately affected by—climate change, financing for development, ensuring artificial intelligence doesn’t leave Africa only as a consumer.”
Insights:
- Lamola robustly defends South Africa’s policies as constitutional redress for apartheid-era racial inequality, dismissing Trump’s claims as “not based on any truthful information.”
- The economic and crime data show no race-based persecution of whites. All South Africans, regardless of color, are impacted by crime.
- US refugee policy shift: Critique of dramatically reduced quotas under the Trump administration—now favoring white South Africans, which Lamola denounces as race-based and inconsistent with the Geneva Convention.
2. The "Mystery Flights" with Palestinian Refugees
[10:21–13:47]
Key Topics:
- Unannounced Arrival: 150 Palestinians from Gaza land in South Africa without clear documentation or destination; the South African government was unaware beforehand.
- Foreign Minister Lamola:
- Denounces any implication of South African complicity in depopulating Gaza.
- Emphasizes a 90-day humanitarian visa stay, pending investigation.
Notable Quotes:
- Lamola [11:09]:
“What appears to be is a program of depopulation of Gaza … South Africa being one of those targeted. … There was no agreement with the Palestinian Authority or Israel for this.”
- Lamola [12:51]:
“We didn't approve any [flights]. … We will also not accept any further flights of this nature just because it is against that resolution of the United Nations that there must be a two-state solution.”
Insight:
- South Africa is adamant about adhering to international law and the two-state solution, refusing to “participate in depopulation” maneuvers.
- Descriptions from Palestinians who arrived underscore the desperation and lack of clarity surrounding the flights, with many spending thousands for journeys organized by “an unknown organization.”
3. Geopolitical Consequences: US Withdrawal, Chinese Opportunity
[15:40–17:14]
Key Topics:
- US Disengagement: How U.S. absenteeism at the G20 and in Africa cedes influence to countries like China and the UAE.
- Business vs. Government: While U.S. government leaders are absent, American businesses remain engaged in South African economic forums.
- African Diversification: South Africa is actively courting partners beyond the West—Southeast Asia, China, Latin America—while keeping communication open with the U.S.
Notable Quote:
“It’s a reality you cannot ignore the US as the biggest economy ... that is very fundamental and important. And that’s why we keep our line of communication in relations to trade open.” – Lamola [16:10]
4. Arrests, Raids & the Catholic Church’s Response
[23:59–36:50]
Key Topics:
- US Immigration Crisis: Mass ICE raids spread fear, disrupt families, lower school attendance, and impact churches.
- Catholic Solidarity: Pope Leo and the US Conference of Catholic Bishops take a rare, united moral stand against the cruelty of mass deportations and anti-immigrant rhetoric.
- On the Ground: Rev. Alexander Santora reports on parishioners' anguish, declining church and school attendance, and new programs bringing spiritual support to detained migrants.
Notable Quotes & Moments:
- Father Santora [25:08]:
“One woman came up to me after Mass crying about her uncle… here 45 years, now self-deporting to Mexico.”
- On Catholic leadership [30:05]:
“Under Pope Francis there was a division among bishops… Pope Leo, an American who spent 20 years in Peru, gives a unique perspective.”
- Santora’s rebuke of criticism from Trump officials [34:52]:
“Homan is out of the loop on Catholic teaching and a disgrace to our faith … The Pope is saying you can’t be pro-life and think everything else doesn’t matter. Outside the womb it does.”
Insights:
- The current climate has led bishops to grant dispensation from attending Mass due to fear, a rare move highlighting the level of crisis within immigrant Catholic communities.
- The Catholic message, as articulated by clergy and the pope, stresses the sanctity and dignity of all human life, contrasting sharply with punitive political approaches.
5. COP30 and Climate Change: Elizabeth Kolbert Reflects
[36:51–52:03]
Key Topics:
- US Boycott: The Trump administration’s refusal to attend the COP30 climate summit in Brazil draws sharp criticism and signals disengagement on the climate front.
- Kolbert’s Perspective: Pulitzer Prize-winner Kolbert reviews two decades of climate reporting and her new book “Life on a Little Known Planet.”
Notable Quotes:
- Kolbert [38:10]:
“The stories in it are sort of a collection of love letters to a changing planet.”
- On carbon capture [41:58]:
“We should treat carbon dioxide as any other sort of waste product… practical? I’m not sure. The challenge is, it takes energy.”
- On prosperity as climate defense [43:54]:
“Not leading to humanity’s demise is a pretty low bar. It will lead to a great deal of suffering. ... What we really need is more prosperity, not to deal with the root cause—I find that hard to believe.”
Insights:
- Kolbert raises the alarm over lost opportunities and policy backsliding, warning the US is surrendering clean tech leadership to China and “shooting itself in the foot” by returning to fossil fuels.
- She underscores that the climate crisis cannot be solved unless the U.S. is at the table, but notes that international momentum may proceed without American political leadership.
6. Memorable Moments & Quotes
-
Lamola on inclusion and G20 opportunity [03:38]:
“It feels like hosting the 2010 FIFA World Cup—South Africa is upbeat, ready to shine a spotlight on Africa’s challenges and value.”
-
Father Santora’s warning [35:53]:
“We need to stand up for good values, humane treatment … The reason they got away with what they did during the Nazi era was because people did not protest. That message could resonate with us in the United States.”
-
Kolbert on irreversible change [45:50]:
“…You can’t get this planet back. Once you take the climate in a new direction, you don’t control it anymore.”
7. Key Timestamps for Segments
- G20 South Africa & US Boycott: [01:00–10:21]
- Palestinian Refugee Flights: [10:21–13:47]
- US Withdrawal & Global Power Shifts: [15:40–17:14]
- US Immigration Crisis & Catholic Church: [23:59–36:50]
- COP30 & Elizabeth Kolbert Interview: [36:51–52:03]
Conclusion
This episode of Amanpour captures a world at the convergence of history, crisis, and moral reckoning—from South Africa’s emergence on the G20 stage to the deep challenges of migration, climate, and power realignment. With pointed interviews and resonant testimony, the broadcast reveals the urgency of global engagement, the perils of retreat, and the enduring struggle for justice and sustainable progress.