Amanpour – "Tough Year for the BBC, British Monarchy"

CNN Podcasts | December 10, 2025
Host: Christiane Amanpour

Episode Overview

This episode of Amanpour focuses on the mounting challenges facing two of Britain’s most iconic institutions—the BBC and the monarchy—in a turbulent year marked by leadership crises and growing public scrutiny. Christiane Amanpour speaks at length with veteran journalist David Dimbleby about his new documentary, "What's the Monarchy For?", examining royal power, money, and image. The episode also features an intimate interview with Booker Prize-winning novelist Kiran Desai about her much-anticipated new novel, "The Loneliness of Sonia and Sonny," and concludes with a report on anti-immigrant rhetoric targeting Minnesota’s Somali community, with State Senator Zainab Mohamed responding to Donald Trump’s recent tirades.

I. The British Monarchy Under Scrutiny

[01:11–15:22]

Main Discussion Points

• Documentary Motivations

  • David Dimbleby sought to rigorously examine the monarchy as a system, not just its ceremonial events.
  • Inspired by the Queen's earlier statement: “All institutions benefit from criticism, including the monarchy and none of them should avoid scrutiny." ([02:47])
  • Highlighted rising anti-monarchy sentiment in Scotland, Wales, and among the youth.

• Barriers to Transparency

  • Dimbleby detailed difficulties in getting insiders to speak candidly:
    “Getting people to speak about the monarchy was like blood out of a stone.” ([04:24])
  • Use of intentionally cryptic, non-committal language by royal staff—especially around sensitive issues such as finances and crises (e.g., Diana’s death).

• Monarchy’s Dual Role & Public Perception

  • Tension between the monarchy’s glamour (as perceived abroad) and its constitutional responsibilities at home.
  • In the UK, the royals perform essential state functions; internationally, they're symbols of allure.
  • “Outside the UK ... they are like the Kardashians. ... But back here in Britain, they have a job to do as head of state ... those two things are in conflict.” ([05:33])

• Debate Over Economic Value

  • Amanpour suggests the monarchy boosts tourism and economic value; Dimbleby disagrees:
    • “The Tourist Board gave up saying this 20 years ago because they decided it couldn’t really ... be proven.” ([07:23])
  • Both agree on the monarchy’s importance for Britain's "soft power," especially citing the Queen’s healing effect on Anglo-Irish relations.

• Royal Influence and Political Neutrality

  • Focus on the weekly audiences between monarch and Prime Minister; discussions with David Cameron and Tony Blair reveal how jealously the monarch guards neutrality.
  • “She protected her impartiality and being above politics, um, religiously, so you’d never really get a feeling.” –David Cameron, recounted by Dimbleby ([09:04])
  • Debate over whether the monarch influences policy, especially via Prince/King Charles’ famous “spider letters” to ministers.

• Key Quotes

  • Dimbleby on the Queen:
    “You can discover how it works.” ([04:24])
  • Dimbleby on Charles:
    “He’s always ... has thought things through that nobody else has thought through. ... He has opinions. ... The question is whether as Head of State, it’s his job, unelected, to push those views.” ([11:59] and [12:41])

• Monarchy, Modernization, and the Next Generation

  • Discussion about Prince William’s climate advocacy as part of the monarchy’s evolution.
  • Dimbleby expresses a nuanced view:
    “Of course he can speak his mind. The question is ... there are many issues where the views of the monarch should be disregarded... and that’s the problem.” ([15:06])

II. The BBC: Crisis and the Future of Public Broadcasting

[15:22–19:12]

Key Discussion Points

• The BBC in Crisis

  • Loss of leadership amid scandals, notably relating to Trump’s multibillion lawsuit over a documentary editing issue.
  • Serial resignations: “Two people resign, but the senior people at the top of the BBC resign. I have no idea ... why that happened. But we have had trouble at the top of the BBC for a time.” ([16:02])

• Public Broadcasting’s Value

  • Amanpour voices concern about the institution’s fragility and centrality to public life.
  • Dimbleby is optimistic:
    “Whatever you think of monarchy, the BBC is the other great institution in Britain ... I believe it will [survive] ... it’s too valuable an institution.” ([16:02])
  • Mentions transition from television to digital news consumption and related threats to the mandatory license fee model.

• Media Neutrality and Political Tensions

  • Perceived political bias—BBC accused of liberal leanings, but staff insist on journalistic neutrality.
  • Historical context: different governments’ (Labour vs. Conservative) attitudes toward the BBC.

• Key Quotes

  • “For any government it’s not worth it to destroy the BBC because it’s too important to Britain, maybe like the monarchy.” –Dimbleby ([17:55])

III. The Monarchy’s Money: Transparency and Controversy

[17:55–19:12]

• Royal Finances Lack Transparency

  • The King is Britain’s first billionaire monarch, wealth traced to historical sources including profits from the slave trade.
  • Royals are “protected from all kinds of taxes... they pay tax voluntarily and there are certain taxes they don’t pay. ... they don’t pay inheritance tax, which everybody else does.” ([18:17])

• Concerns for a Divided Nation

  • Dimbleby warns non-transparent wealth could deepen social rifts:
    “If their money is doing that, the rest of the country’s money is doing that. ... I think that’s a dangerous point, not a tipping point.” ([18:17])

IV. Kiran Desai: On Loneliness, Diaspora, and Storytelling

[20:48–37:47]

Introduced Segment: [20:48]

• Two decades after her Booker Prize-winning “The Inheritance of Loss,” Desai releases "The Loneliness of Sonia and Sonny," exploring love, diaspora, and division.

Key Discussion Points

• Writing About Modern Love and Loneliness

  • “I wanted to write a story about how modernity affects us in the very elemental matters of love and loneliness.” ([21:52])
  • Desai describes the challenge of portraying the Indian diaspora’s sense of isolation and community across global borders.

• Loneliness as a Cultural Divide

  • Moving depiction of cultural attitudes toward solitude, as read from the novel ([22:39]).
  • In India, loneliness is foreign; abroad, it’s inescapable.

• Race, Caste, and Immigration

  • Desai notes the U.S. obsession with race, contrasting with India’s preoccupation with caste ([25:04]).
  • “Immigrants come from very complex pasts ... they realize when they come to the United States ... it is also a country with an enormous burden of history.” ([25:53])

• Western Perceptions and Orientalism

  • Pressure to avoid clichés in representing Indian stories for Western audiences.
  • “There’s an enormous anxiety about how India is written about ... worried that a certain kind of India is being sold to a Western audience.” ([26:52])
  • Discusses legitimacy and inevitability of critiques about exoticism and authenticity.

• The Inheritance of Storytelling

  • Close relationship with writer mother Anita Desai—mutual influences, shared landscapes, and legacies ([29:54]).

• India’s Literary Richness and Diversity

  • “I think it’s the extraordinary diversity of India ... with so many languages and people of so many different faiths ... you could write about people very different from yourself with intimacy, knowledge and affection.” ([31:29])
  • Worries about rising nationalism narrowing literary and social pluralism.

• Writing About Politics and Fear

  • “You know, Christiana, what I have noticed is that once fear is injected into a society, that's really the beginning of the end ... people are very, very, very scared and very worried.” ([34:17])
  • Explores limitations placed on Indian writers today by rising censorship and self-censorship.

• Personal Sacrifice and Artistic Life

  • Desai reflects on the “extraordinary privilege” of devoting 20 years to her novel at the expense of broader life experiences.
    • “Writing was just how I was living my life. ... I think of writing as a kind of spiritual discipline.” ([36:46])

V. Anti-Immigrant Policies & Minnesota’s Somali Community

[38:23–53:29]

Summary

• Trump’s Rhetoric and Crackdown
  • Trump’s derogatory remarks about Somali immigrants, ICE raids, and the rescinding of Temporary Protected Status (TPS) for Somali refugees prompt widespread fear and outrage.
  • Zainab Mohamed, Minnesota State Senator, responds candidly to Hari Srinivasan.

Key Insights

• Community Reaction

  • “I was really deeply disturbed by it and sad for my community. For them to deal with the most powerful person in the world to call them garbage.” –Zainab Mohamed ([40:10])
  • ICE targeting not only undocumented immigrants, but also citizens—often making stops based on appearance.

• On Scale and Facts

  • Only a tiny percentage of Minnesota’s 80,000 Somalis are undocumented or on TPS.
  • The vast majority are citizens, first, second, and third generation.

• Disproportionate Policing and Fear

  • Citizens stopped, detained, and reportedly assaulted; community is instructed to carry documentation at all times.
  • “They are not just targeting undocumented communities ... they are targeting United States citizens. ... As long as you look like me or you look like an immigrant, they're questioning you, they're stopping you.” ([42:50])

• Political Response

  • Local leaders and community organizations take a stand; state and city officials withhold cooperation with ICE.
  • “Our governor has stepped up and has made it very clear that they are here to invade our state, that they are being hostile towards citizens.” ([47:44])

• Personal Risk, Community Resilience

  • Increased threats and violence following Trump’s rhetoric, including the assassination of public officials; Mohamed herself has faced direct threats ([50:45]).
  • Community support and pride:
    “My family is the epitome of the American dream ... every single one of my siblings has graduated college is contributing in their own way...” ([49:43])

• Fraud Stereotypes and Double Standards

  • Community condemns isolated fraud cases, insists they do not represent the whole.
  • Draws parallel to other ethnic groups facing collective blame.

VI. Notable Quotes & Moments (With Timestamps)

• "All institutions benefit from criticism, including the monarchy ... that’s been my watchword."
  —David Dimbleby ([02:47])

• "Outside the UK ... they are like the Kardashians. ... But back here in Britain, they have a job to do as head of state–those two things are in conflict."
  —David Dimbleby ([05:33])

• "She protected her impartiality and being above politics, um, religiously, so you’d never really get a feeling.”
  —David Dimbleby (on the Queen, quoting Cameron) ([09:04])

• "He’s always ... has thought things through that nobody else has thought through. ... He has opinions. ... The question is whether as Head of State, it’s his job, unelected, to push those views."
  —David Dimbleby (on King Charles) ([11:59], [12:41])

• "If their money is doing that, the rest of the country’s money is doing that ... that’s a dangerous point, not a tipping point."
  —David Dimbleby ([18:17])

• "Immigrants come from very complex pasts ... when they come to the United States ... it is also a country with an enormous burden of history."
  —Kiran Desai ([25:53])

• "Once fear is injected into a society, that’s really the beginning of the end ... people are very, very, very scared and very worried."
  —Kiran Desai ([34:17])

• “I was really deeply disturbed by it and sad for my community. For them to deal with the most powerful person in the world to call them garbage.”
  —Zainab Mohamed ([40:10])

• "They are not just targeting undocumented communities ... they are targeting United States citizens."
  —Zainab Mohamed ([42:50])

VII. Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:11] – Intro to monarchy and BBC segment
• [02:22–15:22] – David Dimbleby on the monarchy
• [15:30–19:12] – Dimbleby on BBC crisis and royal finances
• [20:48–37:47] – Kiran Desai on her new novel, loneliness, diaspora
• [38:23–53:29] – Minnesota’s Somali community, Trump’s rhetoric, Senator Zainab Mohamed

VIII. Tone and Flow

Throughout, Amanpour maintains her signature probing yet empathetic tone. Dimbleby is frank, cerebral, sometimes wry. Desai is reflective, passionate, nuanced. Mohamed is precise, determined, and heartfelt as she conveys community fears and resilience. The episode is both sobering and insightful, moving fluidly between major public controversies and the very personal realities of its guests.

This summary presents all key topics, arguments, and memorable exchanges in the episode, enabling listeners and non-listeners alike to fully grasp the depth and significance of the discussions.