Amanpour (CNN Podcasts)
Episode Title: Trouble in Trump Land?
Air Date: November 25, 2025
Host: Bianna Golodryga (sitting in for Christiane Amanpour)
Episode Overview
This episode of Amanpour examines the mounting troubles facing President Trump’s administration, including sagging approval ratings, recent judicial defeats, and internal political conflicts. The impact of Trump-era policies, such as the dismantling of USAID, is explored through the lens of a new documentary, “Raveena’s Choice.” Author Susan Choi discusses her Booker-shortlisted novel Flashlight, which delves into identity and loss across generations. Lastly, historian David Herzberg challenges the effectiveness of the administration’s military actions against Latin American drug cartels, taking a critical look at America’s enduring “war on drugs.”
1. The Trump Presidency Under Fire
Key Themes
- Persistent low approval ratings despite strong economic data
- High-profile legal setbacks involving DOJ actions and appointments
- Escalating concerns about the weaponization of federal agencies
[00:10–01:00] Headlines Recap
- Despite "incredible" economic numbers, Trump's approval is at a record low.
- Judicial rebukes: Judge throws out prosecution cases against ex-FBI Director James Comey and NY Attorney General Letitia James, finding unlawful appointment of prosecutor Lindsay Halligan.
- Epstein files release—pressures within Trump's own base.
- Ongoing perception that Trump is failing to deliver on campaign promises.
[03:21] Discussion with Stephen Collinson (Correspondent)
- Judiciary as check:
"The judiciary has been the premium branch of government that has stood up to the Trump administration and the president’s expansive claims of executive power."
—Stephen Collinson [03:30] - Supreme Court decision: Ruling grants substantial immunity to presidential official acts—a "real permission structure" for legal brinksmanship.
- Dismantling USAID: Courts intervened too late; agency wiped out before legal challenge could take effect.
- Weak Congressional oversight: Apart from Democrats forcing release of Epstein files, little effective oversight from Congress.
[06:21] Politicization of the Pentagon
- Announcement of Pentagon probe/court-martial against Sen. Mark Kelly (D), a war hero and ex-astronaut who urged troops to not obey illegal orders.
- Bianna Golodryga calls out the administration’s misrepresentation of Kelly’s intent and foresees political backlash.
- Collinson notes the weaponization of the military against a civilian as an unprecedented and dangerous step.
"This is a huge crossing of a legal and military Rubicon, not least because it seems to be using the powers of the military against a civilian."
—Stephen Collinson [07:21]
2. Humanitarian Fallout: The End of USAID
[08:19–24:15] Segment on USAID Cuts and "Raveena’s Choice"
The Human Toll
- USAID's record: 91 million lives saved over two decades, now an estimated 600,000 deaths (two-thirds children) attributed to its dismantling.
- Dr. Atul Gawande (former USAID official) and director Tom Jennings (co-director of “Raveena’s Choice”) report direct harm witnessed in Kenyan hospitals and refugee camps.
[10:19] Why focus on Raveena?
“Her story epitomized what is happening across the world... a choice that no mother should ever have to make.”
—Tom Jennings [10:38]
[11:41] Systematic Breakdown
- Malnutrition intervention models dropped child deaths below 1%. With aid cuts, children arrive sicker and in greater numbers, staff and resources can’t keep up.
“What I saw was the consequences for hundreds of thousands of people there, resulting in much higher levels of starvation and much sicker children coming into wards.”
—Dr. Atul Gawande [11:52]
[13:05] Staff Devastation
- Community health workers in Kakuma camp dropped from 300+ to under 100 for 300,000 people.
[14:19] On-the-ground perspective
"There was a lot of incredulity, like, this can’t be happening. It seemed unimaginable the cuts would be as bad as they were.” —Chief Medical Officer, Clinic 7 (played by Susan Choi in segment) [14:33]
[15:27] Dedication Amid Crisis
"...they are on three month contracts now... dedicating their lives and their careers to helping these most needy people." —Tom Jennings [15:27]
[16:24] Denial at Home
- Politicians like (now) Secretary of State Marco Rubio repeatedly deny anyone has died due to the agency cuts, ignoring ample evidence.
[18:43] Dr. Gawande on Underestimating Political Will
“I did not imagine that there would be people like Elon Musk and someone who’d been an advocate, like Marco Rubio, would turn on the agency, deny, have no curiosity about the harm being done, and shut it all down, purge the staff, terminate 86% of the programs, and impound the funds. The results are catastrophic.”
—Dr. Atul Gawande [19:48]
[21:32] Why It Matters at Home
“The indifference to suffering and loss of life from the dismantling of global public health is coming home... the harm doesn’t just stay abroad.” —Dr. Atul Gawande [21:32]
[23:04] Impact on America’s Reputation
"America has lost its sheen, has lost its reputation. It's undependable. And as a journalist, as an American, it's hard to hear that." —Tom Jennings [23:08]
3. Author Susan Choi on Flashlight: Family, Identity, and Alienation
[25:03–36:58] Book Discussion
Summary
- Flashlight centers on Louisa, whose father disappears in fog on a Japanese beach, setting off an exploration of loss, cultural identity, and family secrets—spanning Korea, Japan, the US Midwest, and Indiana.
- Bianna and Susan Choi discuss the resonance with Choi’s own heritage and the universal sense of "otherness."
[27:13] Louisa’s Displacement
“Why are they looking at me?... All her life she’d been asked what she was, where she came from. In the second grade Thanksgiving play, she’d been cast as the sole Indian ... It must be her mother’s fault.”
—Susan Choi, reading from Flashlight [27:13]
[29:09] Autobiographical Roots
“I grew up in the Midwest, and no one ever looked like me ... I went to Japan... expecting to fit in brilliantly... And, of course, I didn’t look like anybody there either.”
—Susan Choi [29:09]
[30:38] On Accepting "Otherness"
“I think I had definitely come to accept myself and the way I look and the way I appear to other people. Growing up, especially in the United States through the 80s and 90s, was an experience of discovering that there were so many other kids who didn’t fit into the simple categories... these issues of Louisa’s not looking like the other children... Those weren’t things I felt I needed to really work through anymore.”
—Susan Choi [30:38]
[32:19] "Flashlight" as Metaphor
“... illuminating some parts of life and ... casting other parts into an even deeper darkness.... My agent... said, 'oh, I love the metaphorical role of the flashlight.' And I said, the what?”
—Susan Choi [32:19]
[34:17] On Book Banning
“Book banning is an easy and cowardly way to lash out at those people, at their stories. And I look forward to a time that book banning is on the decline. But the truth is, it’s always been with us.”
—Susan Choi [34:17]
4. America’s Approach to Fentanyl: History Repeats
[37:39–53:19] The Drug War, Revisited
Segment Overview
- U.S. military crackdowns on alleged "drug boats" from Venezuela, purportedly carrying fentanyl, face criticism over legality, effectiveness, and targeting.
- Drug historian David Herzberg argues that America’s "war on drugs" playbook is both flawed and outdated.
[38:28] Myths of a “Drug-Free” America
“There has always been drugs in America... there isn't a drug free place we can return to if we just stop this.”
—David Herzberg [39:01]
[39:43] On Tackling Crisis by Effective Means
“We should absolutely be taking more significant actions to try to stem this drug. The question is, we want those actions to work... and if we aim our policies at a goal that is kind of a mirage, they can’t succeed.”
—David Herzberg [39:44]
[41:20] The Transition to Fentanyl
- Opioid epidemic shifted from "white markets" (legal prescriptions) to heroin, then to fentanyl, due to changing market incentives and regulatory failures.
[43:16] Prohibition Market Incentives
“The trouble is that fentanyl is a bad product for consumers... but it’s a great product for smuggling. ... The incentive is to avoid the cops.”
—David Herzberg [43:16]
[45:10] Misguided Military Action
“...there's no evidence that I have that suggests that they are carrying those drugs. And that's part of the problem with shooting first and asking questions later. These are essentially imposing the death penalty on people who, as far as I can tell, have never been even accused of a crime, much less convicted of one.”
—David Herzberg [45:51]
[46:33] U.S. Drug Policy through History
- From post-Revolution "Alcohol Republic" to Nixon's war on drugs to Nancy Reagan’s “Just Say No,” America’s response cycles through familiar, largely ineffective punitive rhetoric.
[48:40] Emotional Appeal vs. Effectiveness
"Addiction is frightening... The idea of someone saying, I’m going to take a tough approach... It’s an emotionally satisfying approach. ... Unfortunately, history shows it simply doesn’t reduce the risk."
—David Herzberg [49:04]
[51:10] Lessons from History
- Periods of successful drug policy combined harm reduction, smart market regulation, and robust addiction care.
- Strategies like methadone maintenance, differentiated regulation, and investment in services proved more effective than militarized crackdowns.
“Everyone should agree that people should stay alive. And that should be a central goal of drug policy.”
—David Herzberg [50:55]
Memorable Quotes & Moments
- Stephen Collinson on the courts:
“The judiciary has been the premium branch of government that has stood up to the Trump administration...” [03:30] - Dr. Gawande on USAID’s lost legacy:
“When you’ve saved 90 million lives over the last 20 years, it is arguably the highest impact per dollar of any agency in the US government. And it’s been wiped away.” [19:56] - Tom Jennings on America’s waning reputation:
“America has lost its sheen, has lost its reputation. It's undependable.” [23:08] - Susan Choi on book banning:
“It’s an easy and cowardly way to lash out at those people, at their stories.” [34:17] - David Herzberg on the fantasy of a drug-free America:
“There has always been drugs in America... there isn't a drug free place we can return to if we just stop this.” [39:01]
Timestamps for Key Segments
- [00:10–01:00] — Overview of Trump’s bad month, DOJ setbacks, and court rulings
- [03:21–07:51] — Stephen Collinson on legal guardrails and Pentagon politicization
- [08:19–24:15] — USAID cuts, “Raveena’s Choice” documentary, and the global health crisis
- [25:03–36:58] — Susan Choi on Flashlight, family, and identity
- [37:39–53:19] — David Herzberg on U.S. drug policy, fentanyl, and historical context
Tone and Style
The episode maintains Amanpour’s classic blend of global urgency, investigative focus, and literary depth—balancing hard-hitting political analysis, on-the-ground humanitarian reporting, and thoughtful cultural conversation.
For more:
- Watch "Raveena's Choice" on NewYorker.com [23:57]
- Read Susan Choi’s Flashlight, Booker short-listed
- Op-eds by David Herzberg, New York Times