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Christiane Amanpour
FOREIGN.
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Welcome to the Amanpour Hour. Here's where we're headed this week. Two years after October 7th, a rare moment of hope and jubilation for war ravaged Gaza and for Israelis awaiting the return of their loved ones. My conversation with three Middle east negotiators about Donald Trump's announcement and the roadblocks to a lasting peace. Then Israeli journalist Nir Hassan grapples with how October 7th and Israel's brutal response changed his country beyond recognition.
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I'm really afraid for the future of this state after what I called the October 8th disaster.
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Plus, a world away, after 100 days in ICE custody, the Salvadoran journalist who exposed immigration abuses in America found finds himself deported back home. Also caught in between, we hear from former hostage Nili Margalit about her harrowing captivity and one of the few journalists left on the Gaza front lines, Wael Al Dadu. And it's Nobel Peace Prize time again. From my archives, the story of Shireen Ebadi, the first Muslim woman and the first Iranian to win the extraordinary courage behind her fight for human rights. Welcome to the programme, everyone. I'm Christiane Amanpour in London. And perhaps Britain's Prime Minister Keir Starmer put it best. What a relief, he said when he heard about the deal for a ceasefire and the return of hostages two years after the October 7 Hamas massacre and Israel's catastrophic war of revenge on Gaza. After President Donald Trump announced the first phase of his 20 point plan, a personal triumph for him, having vowed to bring an end to. There is still, though, a long road ahead to achieve real and lasting peace, including a Palestinian state from the ashes of a bitter and bloody decades long conflict. But at least the killing stops for now. To better understand the intricacies of Trump's announcement and the many roadblocks that lie ahead, I spoke to three Middle east negotiators shortly after the deal was announced. Oliver McTernan of Forward Thinking, Israel's Yossi Balin, who served as justice minister and former peace negotiator Hussein Ara So welcome everybody. Welcome to the program. If I could go to you, Yossi, first, what do you feel now? Is this a legitimate, genuine, you know, u. S brokered chance for a permanent change in the situation, obviously to bring back the hostages and surge in humanitarian aid.
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Yossi Belin
Well, it is a great day for all of us. We almost did not believe that this day would come. And yes, we were awakened in the middle of the night and we cried. Does it bring us to permanent agreement between us and the Palestinians? I don't Think so. The way is long because we were negotiating through mediators with Hamas. But unlike the negotiations in Oslo and many other kind of negotiations, we did not have the same aim. I mean, we don't want to see Hamas in Gaza. Hamas leadership in Gaza, they should not rule it while they intend to remain there and are not even ready to put their weapons aside. So I think that the main issue is about the morning after, which has not come yet. And this morning we'll have to deal with the negotiations on longer range, which means between the government of Israel and the PLO, or the legitimate daughter of the plo, which is the Palestinian Authority. That will not be simple, will not be possible with the current government in Israel. So we have a long way to go.
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Christiane Amanpour
Okay, so let me turn to, you know, conflict resolution expert Oliver McTurnan here. So if it's not possible with the current government of Israel, if it's not possible with Hamas in its current incarnation, where do you see this going?
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Oliver McTernan
Several months ago, the last time we spoke, I said there was one person, Donald Trump, who could actually deliver what he has done. But the question is whether he has the political and moral courage to take the next step.
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Christiane Amanpour
All right, so that's the question, and that's a fair question, whether they'll be follow through. And that's always the issue, isn't it? It's always the issue. But to the issue of Hamas, because you've dealt with them a lot, the political side, Dr. Ahmed Youssef has written, factions must evolve. He means Palestinian factions must evolve into political parties that compete under pluralistic norms rather than cling to resistant movement logic. Only then can Palestinian politics align with principles of representation, accountability and collective purpose. That's quite far leaning right. I mean, he's basically saying that we shouldn't continue in this resistance mode.
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Oliver McTernan
And I think there were many in Hamas who realized that long before October 7th and what people were recognizing. The time had come that Hamas should take a step back. They were hoping to have municipal elections in Gaza in November, and they would go on a joint manifesto. So it didn't matter who won the election. They would work together to implement this manifesto. And it was, I thought, a moment of great hope. And I think that is possible. It is possible to revive that. And I think it is the only way forward.
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Christiane Amanpour
And Hossein Ara, who has worked a lot on this issue, what do you think and what do you see as the chinks of light and the potential stumbling blocks right now? I think it is a breakthrough, but it is a ceasefire. It's not a roadmap to a permanent peace between the two peoples, between Israel and the Palestinians. But still, there is a lot in.
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Yossi Belin
It for the Palestinians that they didn't have before.
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Christiane Amanpour
One is the end of the slaughter.
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Yossi Belin
Second is the death of the idea.
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Christiane Amanpour
Of deporting the Palestinians from Gaza, the.
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Narrator/Reporter
Resuming humanitarian aid, giving up the idea.
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Christiane Amanpour
Of annexing the west bank, giving up.
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Yossi Belin
The idea, the crazy idea of total victory.
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Christiane Amanpour
All these, I think, are measurable and.
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Are important returns from Trump's attempt in this plan. But where do you go from here?
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The disarmament process? You've worked with all sorts of conflict resolution, including in Northern Ireland, and you've taken, you know, members of this conflict around as well. After the Good Friday peace accord, it did take years to disarm, to actually disarm the ira. Right. It's not something that's going to happen in a week or a day or a month.
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Oliver McTernan
Well, there's still groups in Northern Ireland that are not disarmed, but the political life goes on. I think Yossi raised the crucial question, who will replace Hamas? Now, what worries me about this current proposal on the table is that it reflects Too much the 2003 plan after the fall of Saddam, the debartification, all of those things. You see it there outside government coming in. It was the government ruling Iraq. Now, the consequences of that we know only too well. It gave rise to isis. And I fear we shouldn't underestimate that in Gaza. Second point about that plan, it reflects nothing of international law and in particular, the human right, the basic human right of Palestinians to have their own state, to have real agency, not a state on paper, and to be able to determine their own future. Now, I think when I said, does President Trump have the political and moral courage to take the next step? It's simply end of occupation. Israel will only have the security it desires and has a right to. When the international community have the courage to say, enough occupation has to end, we have to have a real Palestinian state.
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Christiane Amanpour
Oliver McTurnan, Yossi Belin and Hossein Ara. I wish we could carry on. It's really fascinating with all your expertise and perspectives, and it will be a long and tough slog ahead. Coming up later on the show, we reflect on the tragedies for both sides. We hear from one Palestinian journalist about his brush with death and a released Israeli hostage about her terrifying experience being held in Hamas tunnels. We felt like we were suffocating all the time. It was really hard to breathe. Then my conversation with Israeli journalist Nir Hassan, who believes Israel's war on Gaza has, quote, destroyed the foundations on which his country was built.
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Narrator/Reporter
This episode is brought to you by Rakuten. If you're shopping while working, eating, or even listening to this podcast, then you know and love the thrill of a deal. But are you getting the deal and cash back? Rakuten shoppers, do they get the brands they love savings and cash back. And you can get it too. Stack sales on top of cash back and feel what it's like to know you're maximizing savings. It's easy to use and you get cash back sent to you through PayPal or check. The idea is simple. The brands you love pay Rakuten for sending them shoppers, and Rakuten shares the money with you as cash back. Download the free Rakuten app or go to rakuten.com to start saving today. It's the most rewarding way to shop. That's R A K U t e n rakuten.com I'm Dr. Sanjay Gupta, host of the Chasing Life podcast.
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Christiane Amanpour
More and more young people, people in their 40s, 30s, even 20s, are being.
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Diagnosed with cancers that used to be.
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Narrator/Reporter
Incredibly rare at those ages.
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Christiane Amanpour
It is something my guest, Dr. Kimi Ng, has been seeing up close.
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Narrator/Reporter
It was shocking to see that a young person could be diagnosed with stage four disease.
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Christiane Amanpour
Why is this happening and what can.
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Oliver McTernan
We do about it?
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Narrator/Reporter
Listen to Chasing Life streaming now, wherever.
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Christiane Amanpour
You get your podcasts.
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Welcome back to the program. As we've been discussing the ceasefire and hostage deal between Israel and Hamas is a moment for jubilation. Speaking shortly after the announcement announcement, President Trump said this.
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Yossi Belin
I spoke to Bibi Netanyahu just a little while ago.
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Oliver McTernan
He called.
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Christiane Amanpour
He said, I can't believe it.
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Yossi Belin
He said, everybody's liking me now, meaning him, he said. And I said, more importantly, they're loving.
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Christiane Amanpour
Israel again, and they really are.
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Yossi Belin
It's. I said, israel cannot fight the world, Bibi. They can't fight the world. And he understands that very well.
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Christiane Amanpour
So it's amazing the way it's all.
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Oliver McTernan
Come together and it's a beautiful picture.
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Yossi Belin
I don't know if it could ever happen again.
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Christiane Amanpour
But two years of war have left deep scars in that region that have changed the soul of Israel and Palestinians forever. In a recent column for Haaretz, the Israeli journalist Nir Hassan wrote about what he calls the October 8 surprise Israel's brutal response to the October 7 massacre, which has left tens of thousands of Palestinians dead and Gaza in rubble, he writes, destroyed the foundations on which the state of Israel was built. We spoke just before the deal was announced. Nia Hassan, welcome to the program. I need you to explain that for our audience because destroying the foundations on which Israel was built is an important statement to make. And I want to know, on what do you premise that?
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Well, I wrote in my article that I think my government is responsible of two disasters. The first disaster is October 7th, of course, but the second disaster, which I think will affect our life for years and decades to come, is the respond, the brutal response of Israel to the October 7th attack. And this respond included, I think, countless numbers of war crimes and crimes against humanity. And it destroyed the name of Israel. It started a wave of sanctions and boycotts against the culture, the sports, the economy in Israel and much more. But all of those there are only the it's only the small parts of the disasters. The disaster itself is the tangible death of tens of thousands of Gazans of the destruction that we made in Gaza, the erase of walled cities. And I think it's going to destroy the legitimacy, the international legitimacy of Israel around the world. And I'm really afraid for the future of this state after what I called the October 8 disaster.
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So, Nia, let me ask you, there was, I don't know how you reported and how you were thinking immediately after October 7, but we know that it could completely plunged Israelis and Jews around the world into a terrible trauma which continues to this day. And I'm wondering how you remember back two years now of what the reaction was then from inside Israel and what it took and how long did it take you to then shift your lens a bit to, as you call it, the revenge? And what's happening in Gaza, of course.
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October 7th, it's a trauma. I think the Israeli society is inside the trauma. We are not in the post trauma. We are still in the trauma. For the Israelis and even for me, I can say the sun of October 7th didn't set yet. And I was covering the massacres, the massacre especially in Kibbutz Niwoz and in other parts of the Negev. And it took me a few months to understand that what happened in Gaza will affect my future and the future of my children here in Israel, not less than what happened in October 7, that the way that my government respond to this disaster, to this massacre and atrocities of Hamas, will change the character of the state of Israel not less than the day the October 7th. There will be no healing of the Israeli society without some kind of rehabilitation and healing of the Palestinian society in Gaza it goes together. And I think we are not even in the stage of knowing what's going on there. I mean, I'm covering Gaza daily for a year and a half now. And I still don't feel that I know exactly the magnitude of the catastrophe that happened in Gaza. So first of all, we will have to figure it out what's actually going on there, how many people really died. I mean, we know the numbers of the Ministry of Health from Gaza, which is almost 70,000 people. But most of the experts that I talk to saying that this is the minimum number and the end will be much the data in the end, the numbers, the death toll in the end will be much higher and it might reach 100,000 and even more if we included excess mortality. And just think about it, think about the fact that Rafah is more destroyed than Hiroshima, most of the cities in Gaza are more destroyed than Nagasaki. How long it's going to even start to thinking about rebuilding and healing this land. But what I'm saying to the Israeli society is that we must look straight at what happened in Gaza and must acknowledge it and thinking about the day after the war. Because for now, most of the Israelis, it's not in their focus. They are not thinking about Gaza. And this is very bad for the future, I think.
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Nia Hassan from Haaretz, thank you very much. Thank you.
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Thank you very much.
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Finally creating a real future for both sides will be vital. Coming up, a report on Trump's immigration dragnet and the deported Salvadoran journalist who used to expose immigration abuses in the U.S. welcome back. More than nine months into his second term, President Trump continues his war on illegal immigration, escalating his crackdown, deploying the National Guard in some Democratic cities. And while most US Voters support deporting those who've arrived illegally, a majority now believes the administration has gone too far. That's according to a New York Times Siena poll. One example, perhaps, is the story of Emmy award winning journalist Mario Guevara, who fled el Salvador nearly 20 years ago and built a new life in Atlanta, Georgia, with his family. He had a work permit and a Social Security number. But in June, while live streaming coverage of a protest, ICE arrested him and after 100 days in custody, he's been deported back home. CNN's Gustavo Valdez reports on Guevara's return and what it means for his family.
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Narrator/Reporter
Mario Guevara is a tourist in his own country, El Salvador, rediscovering a place he left over 20 years ago after facing threats for his work as a journalist. This is where he was attacked, he said, with sticks and rocks before fleeing the country. He sought asylum in the United States, but it was denied in 2012. But yet immigration authorities allowed him to stay and work as a journalist. That changed in late June, when he was arrested by local police while covering a protest in Atlanta. Immigration authorities took notice and reopened his immigration case and detained him for nearly four months. He says an agent confronted him while in custody.
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Christiane Amanpour
Mario, why are you following us? You give us a hard time. I tell don't take it personally was my job. I tried to inform my community. It was nothing against you.
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Narrator/Reporter
He was deported last week, and as he finds again the city he grew up in, food is helping him deal with the change. He lost 30 pounds while detained, so for now, he's allowing himself to regain some of it back, sharing the experience with the family he left behind. He says he was ready to comply with the judge's order to return to el Salvador in 2012, but immigration authorities told him he could stay. Now he wonders if it would have been better if they had.
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Christiane Amanpour
They had to be honest. They had to tell the immigrant, you don't have option. You don't have a choice to stay here. You will lose the case. You will lose the case and you will be deported. You will waste time and money. Don't do it.
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Narrator/Reporter
He admits he likes some of the ideas put forward by Donald Trump because the ideals of the Republican Party align more with his Christian faith. But he regrets dismissing Trump's message on immigration.
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Christiane Amanpour
But I never imagined there will be something like he's doing now. He's doing something terrible against our community.
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Narrator/Reporter
This week he gets to enjoy time with his two sons who came to visit and deliver equipment so he can go back to being a reporter, a journalist who says his stories about the immigrant experience will now be different.
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Christiane Amanpour
I think it's monohuman because I will understand more than before because now I'm sure where they live, I'm sure what they told me.
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Narrator/Reporter
For the people who are thinking about migrating to the US he has a message. Don't do it. It's not worth it.
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Christiane Amanpour
Right now, the only thing I can say, President Trump, is be fair with others, no matter the color of the skin.
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Narrator/Reporter
Gustavo Valdez, CNN, San Salvador.
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Christiane Amanpour
And after the break marking October 7th and the subsequent two years that's left Gaza in rubble with tens of thousands dead, we bring you my conversation with one of Gaza's best known journalists about loss, grief and the importance of bearing witness.
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Yossi Belin
We were not even given a chance to mourn for our dead. We didn't even feel the pain because there was no time to do so.
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Christiane Amanpour
Welcome back. This week marked two years since Hamas October 7 attacks on Israel, a day that changed the region and the lives of millions forever. 1,200 Israelis were murdered by Hamas terrorists, some while dancing at a music festival, others in their homes, still in their pajamas. Hundreds were taken captive into Hamas tunnels, like Nili Margalit, an Israeli nurse who. Who was released back in 2023 and who told me about the agony she had faced. I honestly can't imagine what it would be like to be trapped and caught into a tunnel like that, so far underground, probably very little fresh air, very little ability to move. What was it like for you? Did you feel you were going to suffocate? Did you think you were? Were you frightened of the tunnels? We were in a tunnel which was about 40 meters underground, so oxygen was very little. We felt like we were suffocating all the time. It was really hard to breathe. And also because there was a lot of elderly people with me, then it had other effects. You know, it was hard for them to breathe. Someone had asthma, which it make it harder to breathe. The smell is terrible. People were wounded when they were taken, when they were abducted from their home. So the healing of the wound in an environment without enough oxygen, it took a lot longer than it normally takes. And for civilians in Gaza, Israel's response to the atrocities of that day, for which Israeli officials now face some of the most serious war crimes allegations. Life has been unbearable. Death and famine are everywhere and the destruction has been overwhelming throughout it all. Journalists there have risked their lives to tell the story. And one man became the face of the unimaginable horrors that these journalists endure. Wael Al Dahdou is Al Jazeera's Gaza bureau chief and we spoke here in London before the ceasefire deal was announced. Wael Al Dahdu, welcome to our program.
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Yossi Belin
Thank you very much.
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Christiane Amanpour
You know, we're used to seeing you over there. You've become incredibly famous as the face of news reporting in Gaza. From the beginning, you have lost so many members of your family. Your wife, your daughter, your son, your grandson. How did you manage to keep going and to keep reporting after those losses?
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Yossi Belin
Because of my love for this profession first, my deep conviction and belief of the importance and impact of this profession. And it's a profession which is worth sacrificing for. But ultimately it's something we do for the humanity at large, for the profession of journalism. The whole world waits for our coverage to reach it at a time when it was meant for Gaza to be kept in the dark, away from professional journalism. And in the end, what do you expect from someone like me with all this determination to work and to do that in an objective way. And then his. Almost his entire family are targeted and killed. Then he sees his wife, his son, his grandson, and nine members of his family, apart from many neighbors who have all been targeted because of this profession. And do you want me to give up on them? To let them now? No, I will not give up on them. I'll do it for the dignity of the sacrifices they have made.
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Christiane Amanpour
And you said it was the most difficult decision of my life to bury my family and then stand before the cameras. And you've explained why you had to do that. I see your hand is still in a brace. What happened to your arm? It goes up to here.
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Yossi Belin
I think this hand was injured while I was on a job which was previously coordinated with the Israeli occupying forces through the International Red Cross. And we were accompanied by. By medics from the Palestinian Red Crescent. We were targeted by a missile from an Israeli drone. Three of the medics we were traveling with were killed. And my colleague, the cameraman, Sam Rabu Daqa, was injured and he was left there to bleed for six hours. I lost my hearing temporarily, and I lost consciousness. And I tried desperately to stand up and run away, because we know by that there will soon be a second missile. I was looking for a place to take cover when I realized that I was covered in blood, my hand was injured. I couldn't help my colleague and cameraman. I lost all hope of surviving. But I said if it was inevitable for me to die, now I have to die standing up, walking. Maybe. Maybe I can make it to one of the ambulances, which were some 800 meters away. When I crawled there and got there, I said to them, please help my colleague Samer. They said, it's impossible. We cannot make any moves without prior coordination with the Israelis. The permission took six hours. By then it was too late. Samer couldn't make it. They took me to hospital. Then I buried Samar near where I buried my family and continued my job. This is my message. This is my mission. Later on, my own son was targeted and killed. And I also continued, because ultimately there is no escaping this reality.
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Christiane Amanpour
So I want to ask you, there are young journalists who are still there, young Palestinian journalists. Do you understand that? Or do you think now, after two years, they should seek safety?
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Yossi Belin
If we believe in the job of professionalism, then this Reality makes it incumbent upon us to continue because whether we stand still or continue moving, we will be targeted no matter what. So maybe it's better for us to continue working. Maybe that way we can do something for people, towards the people of Gaza, towards humanity. These are people who are subjected to genocide. People believe they have the right to know. The right to information is a human right. And under these circumstances, we cannot look back if we are injured, if some of us are killed or our families are killed. We have to ignore our pain, ignore our oppression. We were not even given a chance to mourn for our dead or we didn't even feel the pain because there was no time to do so. The pain was killing us from the inside. But we had to continue. It was much better for us to continue the job. And under these circumstances, we have to do it professionally.
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Christiane Amanpour
You're right. It's thanks to you and all your colleagues there that the world knows what's going on. So thank you for coming in here.
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Oliver McTernan
And telling us your story, Barakallah.
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Yossi Belin
Thank you very much. God bless.
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Christiane Amanpour
Scores of Palestinian journalists have been killed in Gaza. Coming up after the break, we celebrate Nobel Prize Week with a report from my archive spotlighting the 2003 winner, Iran's Shireen Ebadi, who won for her pioneering work promoting democracy and human rights there. Welcome back. In a world full of chaos and conflict, this Nobel Prize Week provides us some light in the darkness. It's a chance to celebrate the outstanding efforts in fields from chemistry to literature and of course, all the courageous people who stand up for peace. And over the years, I've interviewed many of those winners who from Nigerian poet and playwright Wole Soyinka to women and girls rights activist Malala Yousafzai. This week from my archive, we reflect on one of those inspirational people. In 2003, I reported on Shireen Ebadi, who received the Peace Prize for her lifelong work in democracy and human rights in Iran. She was the first female judge there in 1975. And despite being forced off the bench four years later, after the Islamic revolution, she continued to advocate for human rights and defended those persecuted by the government. Congratulations.
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Fantastic.
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Shireen Ebadi, lawyer and human rights activist, was a long shot for the prestigious Nobel Peace Prize. Indeed, few outside Iran may have ever heard of the woman who beat out even the Pope and former Czech President Vaclav Havel. Ebadi, the first Iranian, the first Muslim woman ever to win the Nobel Peace Prize, was stunned herself. She was given the news while on a visit to Paris and later faced a packed press conference. The beauty of life is that a.
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Yossi Belin
Person fights against the difficulties.
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Christiane Amanpour
If I was working in a country.
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Yossi Belin
That there was freedom and democracy and.
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Christiane Amanpour
I did not face any difficulties, and in that environment I fought for the.
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Yossi Belin
Rights of women, I would not be so proud as I am today.
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Christiane Amanpour
Ebadi, who has struggled for 20 years as a lawyer in Iran, battling mostly on behalf of women and children's rights, said that it's a difficult fight since the country's laws and regulations often deny women human rights. She herself has been imprisoned several times for her outspoken work, including for investigating the attack on students after demonstrations at Tehran University in 1999. Today, she called on the Iranian government to immediately release all those jailed for trying to speak freely and voice political opinions. The Nobel Committee paid this tribute as it announced her win.
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Oliver McTernan
She has spoken out clearly and strongly.
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Christiane Amanpour
In her country, Iran, and far beyond its borders.
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Yossi Belin
She has stood up as a sound.
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Christiane Amanpour
Professional, a courageous person, and has never.
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Oliver McTernan
Heeded the threats to her own safety.
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Christiane Amanpour
For its part, Iran seemed to be caught off guard by the award. At first, officials representing the reformist government of President Khatami warmly congratulated her. But later, an official Iranian statement was read on state television, simply noting her win and saying that it recognized outstanding work. At her press conference, her head uncovered something she would be unable to do in Iran. Ebadi made reference to the tension between reformers and powerful hardliners and appealed for unity on behalf of human rights in her country.
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Yossi Belin
If we do the right interpretation of Islam, we can totally be pro human rights. Therefore, the religious people should actually welcome this award and should support the Nobel Peace Prize.
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Christiane Amanpour
While many inside and outside Iran wonder whether this prize will spur on democracy and reform there, Ebadi herself is more cautious, saying that she will wait to see whether the Iranian government would support her return and continued work. After winning the award, Shireen Ebadi returned to Iran to crowds of supporters. However, she faced intense scrutiny and government pressure, and she was forced to leave her country in 2009. From exile, she continues her work, speaking out for human rights and democracy back home. When we come back, we hear from one brave woman whose parents were taken hostage on October 7, but in the face of loss, still looks for peace. I demand of myself to see the pain of the other side, and I want to believe in our shared humanity. And finally, we began this program with the good news of a ceasefire between Israel and Hamas. So we want to end with individual efforts to make something decent emerge from these two years of horrendous war. We want you to remember that despite so much tragedy and pain, there are still voices and campaigning for peace and advocating for compassion over hatred. One of those voices is Sharon Lifschitz. Her parents, Yocheved and oded, were kidnapped Oct. 7 after their kibbutz was attacked. Both of them courageous peace activists. They favored a two state solution that empowered Israelis and Palestinians to live in peace side by side. I spoke to her early on in the war about the importance of understanding the pain that afflicts both sides. I think that on the 7th of October, the pendulum has swung harder than I ever imagined possible. We in Israel, we are very traumatized. We are deeply traumatized. And I think some people do not see the pain of the other side. I can speak for myself that I demand of myself to see the pain of the other side. And I want to believe in our shared humanity. It is very hard to see the pain that others in Gaza are suffering. And I hope very much that we both end up with leaders that tell us the truth, that lead us to a sensible existence on both sides. This truth is badly missing. It's missing from Gaza and it's missing from Israel, and we all must have that hope. Sharon's father, Oded, died while in captivity in Gaza. His remains were returned to his family earlier this year. Her mother was returned in a prisoner and hostage swap back in November of 2023. And her mother's instinctive shalom or peace to Hamas captors will be remembered by all of us. As for Sharom, she tells us that she will never stop choosing peace. That's all we have time for. Don't forget, you can find all of our shows online as podcasts, @cnn.com audio and on all other major platforms. I'm Cristiana Manpour in London. Thank you for watching and I'll see you again next. I'm criminal psychologist Dr. Michelle Ward, and on season seven of Mind of a.
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Narrator/Reporter
Monster, we're bringing you the story of Kristen Gilbert.
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Oliver McTernan
We think that Kristen Gilbert is the.
- [38:32]
Yossi Belin
Most prolific mass murderer on the east.
- [38:34]
Christiane Amanpour
Coast, the very person responsible for keeping you alive. Your nurse is secretly killing you.
- [38:42]
Narrator/Reporter
She said to the nurse manager, if this guy dies, can I go home?
- [38:47]
Christiane Amanpour
Listen to Mind of a Monster, the killer nurse.
- [38:49]
Narrator/Reporter
Wherever you get your podcasts.