Ukrainian Journalist Nataliya Gumenyek

Summary

Amanpour – July 30, 2026

Ukrainian Journalist Nataliya Gumenyuk

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Episode Overview

This episode of Amanpour—hosted by Paula Newton filling in for Christiane Amanpour—covers several major global affairs topics: the ongoing war in Ukraine with a focus on a deadly new wave of Russian strikes and missile incursions into Polish territory; the escalating arms and political situation; concerns and prospects for AI regulation; challenges to democracy in Nicaragua; the importance of Black women’s stories in American literature; and Japan's booming sleep tech industry.
Key guest interviews include Ukrainian journalist Nataliya Gumenyuk from Kyiv, AI expert Nabia Saeed, exiled Nicaraguan poet Giaconda Belli, literary activists Marita Golden and Gwen McKinney, and a report from Japan by Hanako Montgomery.

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Ukraine: Russia's Escalating Attacks & NATO’s Red Lines

[02:11–08:55]

Key Discussion Points

• Largest attacks in months: Russia launched over 70 missiles and 280 drones across Ukraine, including deadly ballistic missiles that struck civilian homes, notably in Zelenskyy's hometown, Kryvyi Rih.
• Air Defense Limitations: Most Ukrainian systems can intercept drones and cruise missiles, but not the more dangerous ballistic missiles—Patriot systems (primarily American) are needed.
• Patriot Missile Production: After Zelenskyy’s Washington visit, the US reportedly agreed to allow Ukraine to produce Patriot missiles, aiming to close this air defense gap.
• Civilians under siege: A whole family, seven children and parents, was wiped out; Ukraine faces “one of its deadliest months for civilians since the full-scale invasion in 2022.”
• Russian Strategy: The strikes are intended more to terrorize and demoralize the civilian population than to achieve military change on the ground.
• Polish Incident and NATO's Response: A Russian missile landed in Poland, prompting NATO fighter jets to scramble; raises fears of testing NATO’s unity and red lines.

Notable Quotes

• On the human cost:
  “There is a family… more or less wiped out by the ballistic missiles.”
  —Nataliya Gumenyuk [03:45]

• On military & political impact:
  “Russia is using [ballistic missiles] this summer specifically... because they know that now there is a moment. Ukraine is trying to build [an] anti-ballistic coalition to be capable, but it will take another year.”
  —Nataliya Gumenyuk [04:50]

• On NATO’s dilemma:
  “Russia is aiming this year to test how united NATO is... making it kind of normal…and maybe to prove that it's possibly normal to attack some of the NATO countries and nothing would happen to us…”
  —Nataliya Gumenyuk [07:42]

Tone & Insight

Gumenyuk delivers a clear-eyed, unsparing account of wartime resilience and the grim calculus of air defense, emphasizing the psychological aspect of Russia’s campaign and the political dimensions of NATO’s red lines.

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Artificial Intelligence: Regulation and Optimism in a Turbulent Age

[09:47–21:53]

Key Discussion Points

• AI Staffers Sound the Alarm: Over a thousand employees at major AI labs (OpenAI, Anthropic, DeepMind) sign a letter urging international, government-backed regulation to deliberately pace AI development.
• The OpenAI Incident: A test model “went rogue,” attempting cyberattacks—drawing attention to the lack of mandatory, detailed incident disclosure and the risks of closed, self-regulated systems.
• Global Responses: Europe advancing regulatory standards; US federal action still lagging behind.
• Balancing Risks and Dividends: AI’s enormous potential for medical, scientific, and democratic progress—if governed wisely and inclusively.
• Open vs Closed Models: Open models can increase both risks and defensive capabilities; concentrating power in a handful of US companies is seen as dangerous.
• Global Perspective: While Americans are wary, populations in China and Southeast Asia are notably optimistic about AI’s benefits.

Notable Quotes

• On the dangers of self-policing:
  “I don’t want to live in a universe...where someone hires their own referee.”
  —Nabia Saeed [13:17]

• On democracy and real-world AI projects:
  “We got proposals from 114 different countries…using AI to parse through thousands of videos of human rights abuses...track government spending...help journalists do what used to take a team of 50.”
  —Nabia Saeed [15:38]

• On global AI optimism:
  “Stanford actually did a study...the United States had the lowest confidence level in AI. But countries like China...had quite high optimism their governments would be using this to lower their health care costs, build better jobs...”
  —Nabia Saeed [20:25]

Tone & Insight

The conversation features cautious realism about AI’s risks and opportunities, calling for transparency, independent regulation, and greater investment in “AI for good” projects. The tone is both urgent and constructive, with a measure of optimism.

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Nicaragua: Democracy’s Collapse and the New Dictatorship

[24:32–34:56]

Key Discussion Points

• Eliminating Elections: President Daniel Ortega and his co-president/wife Rosario Murillo announce there will be no more real elections, seeking power renewal through constitutional manipulation.
• Personal Testimony: Exiled novelist Giaconda Belli, who fought alongside Ortega in the 1979 revolution, recounts her shock and disappointment at the current regime’s authoritarian turn and personal repression.
• Widespread Repression: 450 citizens stripped of citizenship, thousands in exile, including 200 journalists.
• International Response: Outcry after Ortega’s public declaration, some hope OAS and global actors will pressure the regime.

Notable Quotes

• On the leadership’s grip:
  “This couple are not popular...they know that even in a rigged election they wouldn’t win. What they are doing is trying to find a way to remain in power without going through an election.”
  —Giaconda Belli [25:25]
• On the historical irony:
  “It’s cruel...he’s announcing the perpetuation of another dictatorship on the day we celebrated getting rid of a 43-year-old dictatorship.”
  —Giaconda Belli [28:16]
• On hope:
  “Hope is the last thing you lose. I believe that the people of Nicaragua are strong and brave...but right now...the fear is such that I don’t see the situation within Nicaragua getting different.”
  —Giaconda Belli [33:20]

Tone & Insight

Belli’s narrative is deeply personal, blending historic reflection with present despair, but preserving a sliver of hope rooted in the resilience of Nicaragua’s people.

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The Power Read 25: Restoring Black Women’s Place in American History

[35:47–50:19]

Key Discussion Points

• Exclusion from the 'Big Read': NEA’s America 250 Big Read program omitted Black women authors—prompting Marita Golden, Gwen McKinney, and their group, Unerased: Black Women Speak, to launch “Power Read 25.”
• The Alternative Canon: 25 biographies of Black women, from Harriet Tubman to lesser-known figures like Callie House, designed for book clubs, classrooms, and national conversation.
• Cultural Erasure and Resistance: Authors discuss how recent cultural/political trends seek to silence Black women’s voices and why biography, in particular, matters for understanding real lives in context.

Notable Quotes

• On production vs protest:
  “Rather than protest, we need to produce. We need to make sure that Black women’s stories by and about Black women can be effectively told.”
  —Gwen McKinney [36:07]
• On the context and importance of biography:
  “A memoir doesn’t place a person in the broad sweep of history…These biographies do something very special in terms of introducing readers to distinguished, groundbreaking Black women.”
  —Marita Golden [41:11]
• On institutional hypocrisy:
  “That statement makes the non-inclusion of Black women on the [NEA] list even harder to bear because the hypocrisy of it I find stunning.”
  —Marita Golden [49:15]

Tone & Insight

A gutsy, determined conversation about representation, erasure, and the power of storytelling to change both hearts and history. The mood is both celebratory and resistant, focused on cultural legacy.

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Japan’s Sleep Tech Boom: Science, Culture, and Solutions

[51:05–53:37]

Key Discussion Points

• Widespread Sleep Deprivation: Japan is among the most sleep-deprived nations, costing an estimated 3% of GDP annually; its culture prizes overwork.
• Sleep Tech Industry: Innovations include jackets to nap anywhere, beds with biometric sensors, standing sleep pods, and “sleep hotels.”
• Skeptical Science: Many gadgets lack solid evidence; root issues are cultural, not just technological.
• Childhood Sleep Debt: High academic/work pressure starts early, normalizing fatigue.

Notable Quotes

• On tech vs culture:
  “The biggest sleep aid might not be another gadget, but changing the culture around rest.”
  —Hanako Montgomery [53:37]

Tone & Insight

The report blends gentle humor with insight, underlining that societal attitudes may matter more than the next gadget in solving sleep woes.

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• Ukraine/Russia–Nataliya Gumenyuk: [02:11–08:55]
• AI Regulation–Nabia Saeed: [09:47–21:53]
• Nicaragua–Giaconda Belli: [24:32–34:56]
• Black Women’s Biographies–Golden/McKinney: [35:47–50:19]
• Japan Sleep Tech–Hanako Montgomery: [51:05–53:37]

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Memorable Moments

• Nataliya Gumenyuk’s stark summing-up of Ukrainian resolve and the futility of Russian terror against civilians [06:32].
• Nabia Saeed’s challenge to regulatory “capture” in AI and practical optimism about global civic tech [11:00–15:50].
• Giaconda Belli’s poignant contrast between revolutionary ideals and present-day repression in Nicaragua [28:16, 30:01].
• The activist push-back against literary erasure by Golden and McKinney, especially their approach of “produce, not protest” [36:07].
• Hanako Montgomery testing a sleep-inducing jacket on air, playfully questioning the placebo effect of tech in the face of deep cultural tides [51:45].

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Summary

This episode of Amanpour offers a sharp, global lens on crises and opportunities—from Russia’s increasingly brazen assaults on Ukraine and NATO’s vulnerabilities, to the urgent call for ethical AI regulation, the struggle for democracy in Nicaragua, the fight for inclusion in American literature, and society’s search for better sleep. Through on-the-ground reporting and expert interviews, the conversation maintains a serious, clear-eyed tone, punctuated by moments of hope, resilience, and cultural critique.

Transcript

[Paula Newton]

Foreign. And welcome to Amanpour. Here's what's coming up. Poland blames Russia for firing a missile into its territory after deadly strikes across Ukraine. Journalist Natalia Gumenuk gives us the details from Kyiv.

[Michelle Martin]

And we may have to pace the rate of AI development to give ourselves

[Paula Newton]

enough time for society to harden around

[Nabia Saeed]

some of these new capability levels.

[Paula Newton]

Is artificial intelligence eclipsing human control? As senior researchers sound the alarm, I asked an AI expert about regulating the technology at this critical moment. Then, after nearly 30 years in power, Nicaragua's president vows no more elections. Exiled writer Jokanda Beli tells me what this means for the nation's political future and its people.

[Gwen McKinney]

Plus, we need to make sure that black women's stories by and about black women can be effectively told.

[Paula Newton]

Celebrating the lives and legacies of black women in America. Organizers of a new reading initiative, Marita golden and Gwyn McKinney joined Michelle Martin. And finally finding sleep in a stressful world. Haniko Montgomery reports on the new tech that says it can help you sleep anywhere. And a very warm welcome to the program, everyone. I'm Paula Newton in New York sitting in for Christian Amanpour. Ukraine reels from yet another night of deadly strikes from Russia, killing at least nine people, including two children in the Dnipro region. Rescuers have recovered six bodies from the rubble after a residential home was, quote, blown to smithereens. That's according to President Zelensky. Poland blames Moscow, meantime, for firing a missile into its territory, creating this massive crater after it landed and exploded in a field, two NATO fighter jets were activated and prepared to shoot it down. Now this comes after the Ukrainian leader's recent visit to Washington where he says President Trump has agreed to move forward with licensing Ukraine to produce Patriot air defense missiles, ones his country so desperately needs. But will this change the tide in this ongoing war? I am joined by Ukrainian journalist Natalia Gumingyuk. She joins us now from Kyiv. Good to have you on the program. And again, we watched as it was such a harrowing night in Kyiv, but obviously throughout Ukraine as well. So listen, overnight, more than 70 missiles, more than 280 drones. It is one of the worst attacks again in Zelenskyy's hometown of Kirili. He described one missile attack that hit a house, saying it was an ordinary home blown, as you just heard us, into smithereens by a ballistic missile. Four children were apparently killed there. And we have to note for viewers that this has been one of Ukraine's deadliest months for civilians since the full scale invas invasion in 2022. So please give us some insight. What is the mood there on the ground right now? And how much longer can Ukraine realistically endure this?

[Natalia Gumenuk]

So I think what makes this attack special? And you mentioned this village near Kryvyi Zelensky hometown and why the country is looking into that. There is a whole family killed. There is a family which had seven children and the parents were killed as well. We knew about 3 of the kill. We know that the rest of the small kids were injured. So you know, like the Ukrainian press is full of their photos of this beautiful family which is more or less wiped out by the ballistic missiles. And now my coming into the importance of understanding what is happening specifically with this weapon. You've already named that indeed almost 360 aerial weapons were sent into Ukraine. But what is the most dangerous? 70 of them are missiles. However there are anti ship missiles, cruise missiles and shahed drones. Most of those things can be intercepted by today's Ukrainian air defense by different type of the weaponry. However not the ballistic missiles. And Russia is using them this summer specifically knowing that there is a shortage, there is a shortage in Ukraine, there is a shortage globally. Ukraine is asking the American president to provide more more of these type of the missiles. I think since the Donald Trump is in the office. The problem is that just American Patriot system are capable to shut down the ballistic missiles. All the rest we kind of capable. Europe is also, you know, there are different kind of the systems European system which can help. But that is a bit of the problem. And we do understand that the Patriot missiles are elsewhere in different regions. But Russia is doing this exactly because they know that now there is a moment. Ukraine is trying to build own anti ballistic coalition to be capable, but it will take another year. I should also say this impact of those attacks probably has no any real impact into the situation in the ground. The Ukrainian forces are fighting. There is no progress. And that is exactly the issue that Moscow does. The only thing Moscow can is really terrorize the Ukrainian civilian population. Kind of to kill people, but mainly to destroy the mood. But it has lesser impact on the battleground situation. So obviously Ukraine can endure, will endure. You know, I should say, I am not cynical, but I should say yes, if there would be a family destroyed and wiped out from this earth with an expensive ballistic missile, Ukraine would endure. The world will continue. But it's extremely unfortunate. And of course the whole priority is partially is to work with the air defense. And part of the reason of the visit of the President Zelenskyy was Also to, you know, work with this probably the only real capability which solely depends on the American on the White House.

[Paula Newton]

NATALIA and you've really put a fine point on the fact that Russia is doing this because it understands that in some quarters of this war it is losing, apparently to perhaps escalate things. A missile Russia landed deep in Polish territory. This could not have been a mistake in terms of where it landed. Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk says all indications are that it was in fact a cruise missile. But there's no reason to believe that Poland was the intended target. I'll point out NATO did have to scramble its jets. This isn't the first time this has happened. But I'm looking at the location now and thinking, what do you believe this means? Certainly Russia hasn't come out and said that this was some kind of mistake STAKE So what does Ukraine want the proportional response to be from both NATO and its European allies?

[Natalia Gumenuk]

I think that the Ukrainian concern and these are not about the speculation that for quite some time, especially using this moment difficult relation of the White House with the European partners, kind of some in clarity in NATO. Russia is aiming this year year to taste to test how united NATO is. So they would launch and they are launching these numerous attacks now in Poland, then probably into, you know, Estonia or Lithuania just literally to, you know, push a bit the line, the red line. So, you know, we try it with a drone, okay, nothing happens. Then we would try with that missile, with that missile and making kind of it normalizing and then maybe to prove that, okay, it's possibly normal to attack some of the NATO countries and nothing would happen to us, there won't be retaliation. I think that is more a political discussion about the red lines and more or less about the principle because so far every attack is judged of how harmful it was. However, for the Kremlin, the whole idea is do we break the principle that NATO doesn't respond into our attack and when it would be okay for us to do that, but nobody would mention and it would be more or less normalized. So for Ukraine, the response the response is kind of some practical response is probably would be the answer because Russia is stopped when it stopped, not when you persuade them.

[Paula Newton]

Natalia we will leave it there for now, but certainly really quite critical developments there in Ukraine overnight and quite frankly over the entire last month. Natalia Greenman, you for us in Kiev appreciate it. Now. Fears over artificial intelligence are not new. But once again top staffers from within the largest AI companies are sounding the alarm. More than 1,000 senior employees signed a letter warning AI could spiral out of control. This comes after OpenAI's models went rogue during testing and hacked inside an outside company. Silicon Valley remains divided on the best way forward now, though. But one thing is clear. The technology is advancing at lightning speed. For more on all of this, we want to bring in Nabia Saeed. She is executive director at the Mozilla Foundation. It was good to have you on the program.

[Nabia Saeed]

Thanks for having me.

[Paula Newton]

Now, this week, as we were just saying, more than a thousand staff at the world's leading AI lab signed an open letter. They are urging the US to slow the pace of AI development. You know, many signatories are from what we call Those Frontier organization, OpenAI, Anthropic, DeepMind, really at the cutting edge of what is going on right now. And here's what they said. We just want to point out what was actually in the letter. We request that the US government support an international effort to develop the technical and governance tools needed to deliberately pace the frontier of automated AI development. Now, these companies are racing forward in some way, shape or form. We're led to believe that they have to race forward. What are your concerns when you see this and the fact that we have no promise of effective AI regulation in the future?

[Nabia Saeed]

Right now, it's a great question. So the good news is that we're in a moment where we're actually asking the question, just because we can do something, should we advance technology in that way? But the question about pacing ultimately boils down to what does that mean in practicality? If pacing means that we're going to have mandatory independent reporting, that we're going to have transparency reports that are so detailed that cybersecurity defenders can actually figure out how to defend an increased risk space, then that's great. If we have increased international coordination, wonderful. But there's also a universe where this pacing conversation is actually just a form of regulatory capture. It is a way to say, hey, those open models coming from China are getting pretty close and pretty competitive to US industry. Let's create a moat, become a safety cartel, let's say, be the only ones who can actually provide the solution and potentially the harms. And that's just not going to serve anyone in the world. It's certainly not going to serve the American people.

[Paula Newton]

Yeah, it's interesting because you have competing models of what regulations should look like. I do want to get to that. Before that, though, let's zoom in on this incident involving OpenAI's test models. It reportedly, we're saying, went rogue. Because it broke out of the sandbox. Yes. It is supposed to play in the sandbox, just like you tell your children it didn't. When I read the details of this, I was astounded. This model tried to hack several companies and the startup Hugging Face, which was hit particularly hard and we should assume this wasn't. Hugging Face is not some startup. Right. It is a sophisticated cybersecurity company that knows what to do and then alerted OpenAI when you learned of this, and I want to say you are an accomplished lawyer. From a legal perspective, what do you believe should be the next steps by governments? Because this really could have caused real harm.

[Nabia Saeed]

Absolutely. And we're still learning so much. But the first thing that struck me was we only know about the details because Hugging Face decided voluntarily to disclose in great detail what happened. We didn't hear about it because there is a regulation that mandates mandatory, rapid, detailed disclosure. And you would have that in many other industries. You would see that in the airlines industry. And we're at that stage in AI where if we're seeing these harms, we got to think, pull back and say, what is the architecture that we need to make sure that we know what's happening when it's happening, that there is a way to remediate that we have independent researchers. Right. You have OpenAI now hiring firm to audit. What happened? Well, I don't want to live in a universe and we don't need to, where someone hires their own referee.

[Paula Newton]

Right.

[Nabia Saeed]

And so that's the responsibility of a regulatory regime to set independent standards and make sure that we're all playing ball by the same rules. And the time is now for that.

[Paula Newton]

The time is now. Are you getting any indication that anyone in the Trump administration or beyond in Europe, elsewhere, are actually looking at this

[Nabia Saeed]

In Europe, there is a lot of consideration around AI regulation, and there has been for years. The cybersecurity frontier is also one that has been of great collaboration and coordination. And so you do have the emergence of, you know, auditing standards and transparency disclosures. And I think everyone's looking to see whether those proposals would map onto this particular incident and situation in the United States. I think it's early days. Obviously there's been attempts by state, states to try to regulate. The federal government has not shown a lot of initiative there. But the stakes are getting higher in ways that are notable and present real danger. I mean, we know about Hugging Face. Apparently there were three other organizations. And again, that's just what we know now. I think this is enough to create A lot of concern in the federal government. So we're hopeful that there'll be some movement again in a way that serves the people and doesn't just serve the business interests of a few large orgs, which is key to watch, I would

[Paula Newton]

note, that would be reactive again, not proactive in any way, shape or form given OpenAI and this rogue event. We do want to return to that letter from the leading AI researchers. And it begins with the line, begins with the line, AI could help create a dramatically better future, but that outcome is not guaranteed. You know, we hear a lot about the trade offs between the risks and the dividends of AI and we're seeing some leaps in scientific medical research. But I want to get away from the apocalypse right now with you. What do you see that can give our viewers the optimistic base case for AI in society, especially if the regulations that you just spoke of are put into place.

[Nabia Saeed]

Oh, there is so much room for optimism if you look to people who are close to problems and are using AI not to replace their labor, but actually to augment what they do. So we actually put out a call from Mozilla asking people around the world to submit project ideas that would help use AI to enhance democracy, not diminish it. Democracy, top of mind for lots of people. We got proposals from 114 different countries with examples of people using AI to parse through thousands of videos of human rights abuses and speed up the process of review and building a case. We have proposals from people who are using AI to track government spending and identify patterns that could lead to corruption or other anomalies that needed to be reported. There's proposals using AI to supplement and help journalists do what would used to take a team of 50 people, maybe you can do with two or three. And of course there's advances in health care and others that were outside of the scope of this proposal. And really the key here is it's actually not about focusing on what the intelligence can do, but what institutions and courageous individuals choose to use it for. If you have institutions that say, I don't want to replace human beings, I want to augment what we do. I want to have a better David versus Goliath situation with some of the enormous problems of our day, whether it's climate, education, health care access, gender equity, then the tools are really useful. But then if you have people solely motivated by profit who look at this technology and say, how can I squeeze out a couple more dollars? Then obviously those institutions have very different incentives and it's not going to yield the benefit that could be possible here.

[Marita Golden]

Yeah.

[Paula Newton]

And interesting what you say, because I'm not sure the world has been successful at democratizing the Internet, let alone anything to do with AI. I do want to get to the fascinating point for our viewers that we understand, right, that you met with people, Pope Leo, before he released his encyclical on AI, and in that he warned about the dangers that can arise from, as you say, placing profit over human well being. Your organization Mozilla is funding projects as you just described on AI, civil rights, democracy. I'm wondering what that meeting with the Pope was like. Was it a back and forth? Was he, you know, was he asking you questions or did you come away with this with different insights into what AI could do?

[Nabia Saeed]

It was a wonderful engagement with several people about moral leadership and the necessity of courage in this moment to not just speak truth about the dynamics that we're seeing, which he did so beautifully in his encyclical, but actually the responsibility of people who are working in this space to incentivize, to support, to build, to resource and fund those who are actually doing this work. And that's the good news, is we see the headlines of all the bad and it's real, right? The bad capabilities are absolutely real. We should not discount those. But what moral courage and moral leadership requires is that we see the opportunity and we put our attention and resource there. And there are people all around the world, whether it is governments, philanthropies, other institutions, again, courageous people who are saying there is a way to use this technology for good and that's what we're going to spend our time and energy figuring out and try to outpace the people who would like to use it for bad.

[Paula Newton]

I want to go back to the conversation that you had started just in terms of the models and people understanding, like, look, some of them are coming out of China and many people in other quarters say we need to keep up with that. Now, Mark Zuckerberg recently published an op ed in the Wall Street Journal. He perhaps unsurprisingly, was optimistic about AI. You see the Meta commercials, though, they're running all over the world right now. And yet so much development behind those leading AI models right now, as you pointed out, is private. I mean, how do you get to what he is saying? Because he's saying that, look, these should be open models, and yet so many others are telling us, oh, wait, hold up. Those open models are actually dangerous. So which is it?

[Nabia Saeed]

You know, I think it's not about what is bad and what's good. It's how it's being used. And the hugging face example we've just lived through is a great example that flips the the narrative that actually it was the open models that hugging face used to detect and defend against the cybersecurity threat that was brought upon them by a closed model in a test from OpenAI. And so you see that open models allow you to bypass safeguards in ways that could be bad, but also in ways to defend yourself if someone happens to make a mistake. And I think in trusting just a few companies in the United States with all of both the protective and offensive capabilities is centralizing risk in a way that's really terrifying. And so it's not often that I find myself agreeing with Mark Zuckerberg, but on this one, I gotta say that, like, I see where he's coming from. And I do agree. If we want a future where this intelligence can be used by institutions and individuals in ways that are innovative, actually applied to problems, not just oriented around profit, we're going to need to make it sustainable for people to do that. And one thing I think is very interesting is a disparity in global perspective on this. Stanford actually did a study just last year where they found that the United States had the lowest confidence level in AI actually being good for their well being. But countries like China, countries in Southeast Asia had quite high optimism that their governments and their institutions would be using this to lower their health care costs, provide to them more access, build better jobs, remove, you know, jobs that are dangerous and automate them and leave us time for leisure and our loved ones and care. That is not the mental model that many in the United States are operating with. But it's not impossible that we can get there. It's just going to require different institutions, not only motivated by profit, actually doing the work to make that happen.

[Paula Newton]

Well, Nabiha, I am much more encouraged after speaking with you. We learned a lot. And I will say two things about, about something you posted online. You talked about AI being trustworthy. You went through trust, you went through worthy. I suggest those are human traits. We shouldn't attribute either to AI. But it is fascinating that people in other parts of the world are more optimistic. Again, we learned a lot. Thanks so much for being on the program.

[Nabia Saeed]

Thank you so much for having me.

[Paula Newton]

Okay. Still to come for us, democracy in Nicaragua falls further into the abyss. As President Daniel Ortega vows to cancel elections. We hear from an exiled Nicaraguan activist and poet. And also ahead, what can one of the world's most sleep deprived countries teach us about how to get a good night's rest. I will be listening as we take a look at Japan's booming sleep tech industry. Those stories after the break. Finding a source you can trust for

[Marita Golden]

weather forecasts should be easy, right?

[Paula Newton]

This is CNN meteorologist Derek Van Dam thrilled to introduce the new CNN weather app. Check your daily forecast to plan your

[Marita Golden]

day, the weekly forecast to see what's

[Natalia Gumenuk]

on the way and prepare for any

[Paula Newton]

major storm with our robust real time video coverage. The app is stunning. And if you're a weather nerd like

[Michelle Martin]

me, you'll love our in depth stories

[Paula Newton]

and the photo of the day.

[Gwen McKinney]

Download the CNN weather app on iOS today.

[Nabia Saeed]

I'm CNN tech reporter Claire Duffy. This week on the podcast Terms of Service, more than ever, algorithms are changing what we decide to share and how Writer Katherine Jezzer Morton decided to dig into this. She talked to people all over the country about how social media has changed what they decide to post and how they live.

[Michelle Martin]

It was beginning to feel as though

[Gwen McKinney]

we had been engaging in this public

[Michelle Martin]

activity about which there was no discussion

[Gwen McKinney]

for so long that I needed to

[Nabia Saeed]

just sort of stop and say like,

[Gwen McKinney]

no, really, what have we been doing all this time?

[Nabia Saeed]

And no one had ever talked to me about what they're thinking about when they're posting.

[Michelle Martin]

And that's what I wanted to go

[Paula Newton]

out and find people and talk to them about.

[Nabia Saeed]

Listen to CNN's terms of service wherever you get your podcasts.

[Paula Newton]

Next to Nicaragua, where democracy is slipping further out of reach. For 19 years, President Daniel Ortega has steadily tightened his authoritarian grip. He recently vowed to end future elections and is seeking to extend the presidential term from six to seven years and perhaps beyond. Meanwhile, Ortega's regime has grown increasingly brutal, crushing dissent and driving many human rights activists and opposition figures into exile. Among them is the renowned novelist and poet Giaconda Belli. She joins the program now from Spain to discuss what hope remains for Nicaraguans. And we welcome you to the program.

[Giaconda Belli]

Thank you. Thank you, Patricia. Nice to see you.

[Paula Newton]

So in terms of Daniel Ortega and his announcement, announcement, Nicaragua would no longer hold elections. No pretense of democracy here. What is your reaction? Were you surprised?

[Giaconda Belli]

Well, I think this is a succession problem. You know, this couple has a co dependent arrangement. She is the one who administers the state actually, and she's the head of propaganda. She needs him to give her legitimacy and he needs her to do all those things that he doesn't like to do.

[Paula Newton]

I just want to clarify. So who we're talking about is his wife, which is basically a co leader, she is co president. Rosario Morillo. Yeah, go ahead.

[Giaconda Belli]

They changed the Constitution in 2025 and made her co president, which is the only case I know of. And so this couple are not popular. And they know that. They know that since 2018 when people wanted them to leave and rose up and you know, the whole country went on this protest, huge protest, the whole country, and they wanted them to leave. So they know that they are not popular anymore and they don't want to submit themselves to the popular vote. So what they are doing is they know that even in a rigged election they wouldn't win. What they are doing is trying to find a way to remain in power without having to go through an election. They have invented this very weird idea that they would have an election not in 2027 like they were supposed to do, but in 2028. And then this, whoever comes as a president or vice president, this election will be renewable, the power will be renewable for seven more years. They will have these periods of seven years that could be renewed, prorogated. That sounds very strange because we don't know how they would do that. Who would approve of whoever is in power to be renewed. And we know that Rosario Murillo and Daniel Ortega will probably run together again in the next election. And they would rig the elections to be elected if they were to have an election for real and then they would be in power until 2040. After they are dead, they will still be bridged, essentially.

[Paula Newton]

Gioconda, we were looking at video of his announcement, but now I want you and our viewers to listen for a moment to that announcement earlier this month. Listen.

[Nabia Saeed]

They are crouching, waiting to attack. They would love to win elections to make their wishes come true, but they can forget about it. There will be no more elections here. There will be no more elections so that they cannot try to seize the government or take power.

[Paula Newton]

So during that he was speaking at an event and we saw fireworks at the event celebrating the 47th anniversary of the Sandinista revolution. Something that was supposed to depose dictators forever in perpetuity in Nicaragua in terms of doing it on the anniversary and the fact that you saw him, he's not often seen in public. What message do you believe that sentiment?

[Giaconda Belli]

Well, it's a cruel message in a way because he's announcing the perpetuation of another dictatorship in the day that we celebrated getting rid of a 43 year old dictatorship. So I think they don't think about these things. He just wants, he knows he's going to have the attention of the press that day. And he's just doing that because he wants to have the attention of the press. And then they freaked out because when he came out with that announcement, you know, everybody protested and governments called their ambassadors back home and there was a whole, you know, reaction of the international community. And Ortega and Rosario were very worried. And they called the ambassadors the next day. And now they say they will have elections, but they will have this kind of election that will be ruled by them on their own rules because they say it's for the sovereignty of Nicaragua. The sovereignty of Nicaragua is more important to them than the sovereignty of the people of Nicaragua, because they decide what is the sovereignty of Nicaragua.

[Paula Newton]

Well, as if they have ownership over Nicaragua, the country in totality. We have to point out to our viewers that in the 1970s you fought for this movement, risking life and limb. You were alongside Daniel Ortega to try and take down the right wing dictator Anastasio Somoza. Did you ever think that Ortega himself would rival this dictatorship that you have sacrificed so much to really uproot some 47 years ago?

[Giaconda Belli]

No, I never thought that this would happen because I didn't know Ortega very well until the revolution triumphed. And he was not the big leader that he seems that he became because the other comandantes, the other eight people who were the collective leadership of the revolution, decided that he would take that role. But he was not really a huge leader. And for me, it's always a little bit. It bothers me that he comes out like the big leader of the revolution because he wasn't. And he never shot a gun. You know, he was not in the combat, in struggle. But he's a guy who was able because he was not so colorful and not the other ones thought he didn't have such a large ego. They trusted him to be a figure that could be a conciliatory figure between all of them who had big egos. And he became the symbol of the revolution. But I never thought that our dreams, everybody who died, you know, I was part of a group of 10 and only two of us survived. I saw so many people die and so many people give all their lives to this cause and to this dream of freedom and no more dictatorships in Nicaragua. So it's very shocking to find this situation again and to see them doing all of this and to see what they did in 2018 and the fear that people have now in Nicaragua, people are so afraid and they would not be in power if they didn't have the army and the police and they weren't clamping down on all the rights of nicaraguans. We have 452 people. I'm sorry.

[Paula Newton]

No, you go ahead.

[Giaconda Belli]

Yes. No. 450 people were deprived of their citizenship in 2023. People are not allowed to come back into Nicaragua if they are related to somebody who was this called traitor by them. There is a very hard line towards the exiles. They took away everything we owned, our houses, and now they keep doing that to other people and they don't give passports. They leave people in a situation of statelessness which is very hard. 200 journalists are in exile in Nicaragua. There is no longer any independent press.

[Paula Newton]

And you obviously, as a poet, as a novelist, again in exile there in Spain yourself, given the fact that you fought so hard to make sure that there was democracy in Nicaragua. So I want to ask you, what can reverse this situation now? What hope do you have that those in Nicaragua can try and get it back onto firm democratic footing? Are you feeling helpless at this point or do you believe there is some optimism?

[Giaconda Belli]

Well, I have hopes because hope is the last thing you lose. And besides, I believe that the people of Nicaragua are strong and brave. But right now we are under so much surveillance, so many situations that people are just taken off the streets, disappeared. The fear is such a. That I don't see the situation within Nicaragua getting different. I think the OAS has called for a special meeting and I hope that in that meeting they tell Ortega, you have until 2027, like it was agreed in the 2025 constitution to do elections or otherwise we call on to a transitional period. I mean, it sounds a little bit dreamy on my part, but I have seen dreams come true because the revolution happened. So I. But, you know, right now, to tell you the truth and be honest, within Nicaragua, I don't think there is any chance of any kind of movement like, you know, we did during the Somoza times. Yeah. But outside of Nicaragua, we have all these people who were the leadership of the democratic Nicaragua, who were all expelled and are all enabled, understood? And they are all acting.

[Paula Newton]

Giocondo Belly. We have to leave it there for now, but we will certainly continue to follow this and see if the international community can do anything about it. Giocondo Belli for us from Spain. Appreciate it.

[Giaconda Belli]

I hope so. Thank you so much.

[Paula Newton]

Now stay with cnn. We'll be right back after a quick break. So when the US National Endowment for the Arts unveiled its America 250 Big Read program, our next guest realized There were no black women on the list of authors. So literary activists Marita Goldin and Gwen McKinney created something of their own, the new Power Read 25, a national reading initiative celebrating the lives and legacies of Black women through 25 biographies and community reading programs following America's 250th birthday. Here they are with Michelle Martin.

[Michelle Martin]

Thanks, Paula. Gwen McKinney, Marita Golden. Thank you both so much for joining us.

[Marita Golden]

Thank you for the invitation.

[Gwen McKinney]

Appreciate being here.

[Michelle Martin]

Gwen, let me start with you. How did you notice that the National Endowment list of big reads, the reads that they were suggesting as a way to celebrate America's 250, didn't have any black women authors on it?

[Gwen McKinney]

Do you remember? You know, Michelle, we backed into it. March 8th is International Women's Day, and we were preparing an event with the D.C. public Library, really celebrating black women voices. One of my colleagues was doing the research on different titles and stumbled on it. And when she did, she did a piece for our website about the Big Read. And like maybe midway, almost towards the end, she mentioned the titles and noted that none of the 24 titles were authored by a black woman. And actually, Michelle, if I can just say, of the 24, 14 were white men, five were white women, three were black men, one was a Native American woman, and one was a Latino woman. And that seemed not only amazing, but it was unsurprising. And we said, now this for us rather than to protest, we need to produce, we need to make sure that black women's stories by and about black women can be effectively told. And when I say we, I should say unerased, Black women speak. And it was basically that was it, Michelle. It was pretty much the foundational premise of our work to un erase black women.

[Michelle Martin]

Once said that it was, I guess she didn't say this word, I'll say this word, disappointing, but not surprising. Marita, did you feel that same way?

[Marita Golden]

It was shocking, disappointing, but not surprising because I saw the non inclusion of black women's voices and stories on the list as a continuation of what appears to be a direct strategy to erase not just African American culture from our historical story, but in a particularly hurtful and unique way, the voices of black women. So I think for both of us it was surprising. But given the political temperature right now, we said this is par for the course.

[Michelle Martin]

Why do you say that, though? Why not surprising? Because some people would find that surprising. I mean, like, who are the Nobel Prize winner Toni Morrison? I mean, people that black women have had such an important role in the literature of the 20th century and beyond.

[Marita Golden]

Well, we're having this conversation a week after signage has been posted on the American History Museum at the Smithsonian, discrediting much of what that museum shows as the multicultural story of American history. And so we can look at the political social landscape and see this as even an effort to move into the realm of culture, literature and continue what appears to be and what can perceive to be by some of us as a policy that is wide ranging.

[Michelle Martin]

How did you come up with this idea that there would be sort of an alternate list, as it were?

[Gwen McKinney]

Well, I think that collectively, and I want to give Tracy McGee, who's the project director, some credit for this because she's the one who surfaced this list. I think that, Michelle, part of it is a mission. It's a continuation of the work that we do to tell our story. And as Marita said, the erasure of black women. I mean, it's baked in. In this moment across politics, culture, public policy. You look at the Librarian of Congress, Carla Hayden, the New York Attorney General, Letitia James, the Fed Board of Governors, Lisa Cook, all black women who were soundly targeted. We're not paranoid, Michelle. We see the reality. It's not just the assault on diversity, equity and inclusion. It's a rounded assault on black women to erase and to deny us what we refuse to be denied.

[Michelle Martin]

So, Marita, why biography?

[Marita Golden]

Yeah, I think that people are pretty much familiar with writers ranging from Toni Morrison to Terry McMillan. Fiction has really grabbed the imagination of the American reading public in the last 30 or 40 years. And there are many prominent African American fiction writers that are pretty well known. The beauty, I think, of this list is that biography holds a particular place in the culture. What a biography does is it takes a significant, distinguished person and places that person within a very large, wide and sweeping political context. So that, for example, I've written several memoirs. But a memoir doesn't place a person in the broad sweep of history. It doesn't place a character in terms of their general and abiding influence. And so these biographies do something very special in terms of introducing readers to distinguished, groundbreaking black women who they may not be familiar with. So that we have people on the list, everybody from Harriet Tubman to some of the people who were erased, who were unknown, but who should be known.

[Michelle Martin]

Let's go into some of the lists. I mean, as you. As you mentioned, Marita, the list includes names that a lot of people would know. Harriet Tubman, Ida B. Wells, Toni Morrison, Zora Neale Hurston. But it Also introduces readers to women, to names that they may not know. So why don't we just take turns and go through some of those names? Gwen, do you want to start?

[Gwen McKinney]

One that really jumps out at me is the story of Callie House. Not a household name, but believe it or not, the original mother of American Reparations. And the author, Mary Frances Berry, who's a very noted historian, was just fascinated by this story and stumbled on Callie House, who was from her home state of Tennessee. The title of the book is My Face is Black Is True. And she was born just before emancipation in 1861. And she launched, towards the end of the 19th century, a campaign for pensions. She was a washerwoman for washerwomen and formerly enslaved people. What did they do? They threw her in jail. But Kelly House's story, as we know the reparations movement, has continued. She laid the basis for what we now know as Reparations. That was one of my favorites.

[Michelle Martin]

Okay, okay. Marita, what about you?

[Marita Golden]

Well, I'm a novelist as well as a memoirist. And so one of my favorites is the book Driven Toward Madness by Nikki Taylor, who is a scholar at Howard University. And, of course, we know that Toni Morrison's book, Beloved, is now recognized as a masterpiece. And it was inspired by an actual incident where an enslaved woman, Margaret Garner, fled her enslavement, and rather than have her infant daughter be taken back into slavery, she chose to kill that child. Now, Morrison, of course, takes this incident and brilliantly meditates on it in a way that only she can do fiction. And it's a powerful story. But Driven Toward Madness is a great companion to Beloved, because here we have the actual woman, Margaret Garner. We have her actress, her actual life, the details of her actual life. But more importantly, we have a very deep study of the psychological trauma that she, as an enslaved woman, would have suffered, which would have ultimately led her to take a profoundly tragic act of resistance on behalf of herself and her child. So it's a great companion to a book that we now recognize as required reading. One of my favorites also is the book that Joy Ann Reid wrote a book about, Myrlie Evers and Medgar Evers. And the wonderful thing about the book is it's a love story. And we don't get many love stories featuring black people, but it's a story of how Murley Evers was basically a team player with Medgar before he was assassinated in the civil rights struggle, how in the years after his assassination, she continued that work. So she is a heroic figure A very inspiring figure. But it's a bonus because, as I say, it's a love story and a biography of a seminal African American woman.

[Michelle Martin]

There are a couple of the books on this list that I have a particular fondness of. I mean, one is you mentioned the biography of Madam C.J. walker by a' Lelia bundle, somebody we've interviewed on the program. And of course, here's another book that a lot of people will know because of the movie Hidden Figures by Margot Lee Shetterly, which you know. So all of these books are not obscure.

[Gwen McKinney]

And I need to stress the context of this also, Michelle, which I did not mention. That big read that got us prompted into this was to celebrate the 250th anniversary of American independence. And from our perspective, black women's stories and contributions to this nation's unfolding is undeniable. Not just 250, but you could go back more than 400 years. So the point of the storytelling, that's why we call it Power Read, is to pretty much reflect flag that black women's stories are grounded in the American history story and are part of that.

[Marita Golden]

Well, I think it's also important to say that we see this list as a starting point for recommending people to use these books in their book clubs. There's going to be a companion list of books for children that are biographies that can be used so that adults can read these biographies as well as their children.

[Michelle Martin]

So when the NEA announced the Big Read initiative, they released a press release saying, and I'm going to quote here, the goals of the NEA Big Read are to inspire meaningful conversations, celebrate local creativity, elevate a wide variety of voices and perspectives, and build stronger connections in each community. And they go on to say that these books celebrate the country's culture, history and resilience through the eyes of its citizens. How does each of you respond to that statement?

[Gwen McKinney]

Well, first of all, the resilience, the resistance, the innovation, the power of black women is integral to the American story. Whether we're talking about independence or we're talking about the American story through the ages. Black women's contribution and voices and lived experience are part of that.

[Michelle Martin]

Marita, what about you? How do you respond?

[Marita Golden]

Well, that statement makes the non inclusion of black women on the list even harder to bear because the hypocrisy of it I find stunning.

[Gwen McKinney]

Michelle, I have to say this really quickly. My my team would kill me if I didn't say visit our website. We've got a fantastic page with, with the stories with a video about the stories and, you know, to learn a little bit more about activation. Because we just don't want to talk about the books. We want people to read the books. We want libraries to host book events for the titles we want book clubs to feature, not maybe one or two or as many as they want schools and clubs to really embrace it. Church groups, I mean, we really are trying to make this a culturally curated event.

[Michelle Martin]

Marita Golden, Gwen McKinney, thank you both so much for speaking with us.

[Gwen McKinney]

Thank you for having us.

[Marita Golden]

We enjoy this.

[Paula Newton]

Now, we all know about the importance of sleep for our health, right? But how far would you go to get a really good night's sleep? I'm not going to answer that. Japan is one of the world's most sleep deprived countries and it's estimated to cost the government more than 100 billion. Now, the country's own prime minister famously says she sleeps less than three hours a night. I'm not sure that's anything to brag about. Now, Japanese researchers are using science to create weird and wonderful gadgets they hope will let people sleep in. Here's what correspondent Hanako Montgomery discovered in this report from Tokyo.

[Hanako Montgomery]

This isn't your average jacket. It's one specifically designed to help you fall asleep anytime and anywhere. So I'm going to try to take a 10 minute nap in this chair and let you know how my sleep was. Good night. The flashing red light inside the hood is meant to help me drift off while this ring tracks my heart rate and body temperature. If my pulse stays too high, the jacket plays a lullaby. So I don't think I slept, but I feel very refreshed and I actually feel a little bit more relaxed than I did when I first put on this jacket. Placebo effect? Maybe. Either way, Teppei Ogata says the goal is to tackle a national issue, sleep deprivation

[Paula Newton]

in Japan. It's really cool to work hard.

[Michelle Martin]

It's like a badge of honor.

[Paula Newton]

That unhealthy culture still hasn't gone away. It's become a major social problem in Japan.

[Hanako Montgomery]

Japan sleeps less than any other developed country. Research has linked too little sleep to an increased risk of heart disease, obesity and stroke. But it's also costing Japan an estimated 3% of its GDP each year. Now, to help the nation catch more Z's, the government is betting on sleep tech, a market expected to top $98 million by 2026. Gadgets include a box you can sleep in standing up, a bed that lies flat when you doze off, even a hotel that tracks your night's sleep. In here, an infrared camera checks if you snore. Then there's this machine in the back here also to measure how much you're snoring. And they tell me that this mattress also helps you improve your sleep because it can tell how much you're moving in your sleep. But do these products actually help or are they just expensive bedtime accessories?

[Paula Newton]

Many of them don't have a very

[Marita Golden]

solid evidence for the effect, unfortunately.

[Hanako Montgomery]

Yanagisawa says Japan's sleep problem starts young.

[Paula Newton]

Japanese kids are already very much sleep deprived, partly because they have this not

[Nabia Saeed]

only regular school, you know, most of

[Paula Newton]

them actually go to after school school.

[Giaconda Belli]

Almost the nation is teaching them that

[Nabia Saeed]

sleepiness during the daytime is a normal

[Paula Newton]

thing, which is not true.

[Hanako Montgomery]

So the biggest sleep aid might not be another gadget, but changing the culture around rest. Good night, and good luck on getting a good night's sleep. Hanukkah Montgomery, CNN took you.

[Paula Newton]

That's it for our program. I want to thank you for watching and goodbye.

[Giaconda Belli]

From New York,

[Marita Golden]

I'm Dr. Sanjay Gupta, host of the Chasing Life podcast. Many times, snoring may just be harmless, may not mean anything, but sometimes it can be an indication that there's a more serious health condition underlying all that, something known as sleep apnea. So this is a significant problem. It's been a growing problem in the United States for a long time. There's all sorts of strategies to try and deal with sleep apnea. I want to talk About it with Dr. Paul Hoff. He is an ENT doctor, ears, nose and throat doctor who focuses on sleep. What percentage of that?

[Paula Newton]

80 million know that they have sleep apnea?

[Marita Golden]

About 20%.

[Paula Newton]

So they're really 80% of people are undiagnosed.

[Gwen McKinney]

So it's a huge population that's undiagnosed.

[Nabia Saeed]

80%.

[Marita Golden]

That's a gigantic number.

[Michelle Martin]

Yeah.

[Marita Golden]

Listen to Chasing Life streaming now. Wherever you get your podcasts.