Loading summary
Transcript97 lines
- [00:01]
Announcer
Your team just added its 67th AI tool and also your 67th security blind spot. The good news? The Vanta agent works like a GRC engineer in the background finding every app your team uses, scoring the risk and
- [00:13]
Lt. Gen. Russell Honore
drafting fixes for you.
- [00:14]
Announcer
Vanta is the platform used by over 16,000 fast moving companies like Ramp, Cursor and Harvey who are shaping the future with AI and staying ahead of AI risk. Get started@vanta.com.
- [00:31]
Christiane Amanpour
Hello everyone and welcome to Amanpur. Here's what's coming up.
- [00:35]
Lt. Gen. Russell Honore
This administration cannot credibly tell Americans to prepare for death in Haiti while claiming that Haiti is safe enough for hundreds
- [00:47]
Nir Hassan
of thousands of people to be deported there.
- [00:50]
Christiane Amanpour
Fear in America With ICE ramping up raids and hundreds of thousands of Haitians now facing deportation back to their ravaged country, Lt. Gen. Russell Honore joins me with his plea against this policy.
- [01:04]
Lt. Gen. Russell Honore
Then all of Gaza is threatened and under fire. Now we want to be displaced. There is no safe place to go.
- [01:10]
Christiane Amanpour
With elections looming in Israel. What about the fate of Palestinians in Gaza and the occupied West Bank? I ask Israeli journalists near Hassan.
- [01:19]
Announcer
Plus the system we have is systematically producing older politicians and so we have to do something to correct it.
- [01:27]
Christiane Amanpour
Gerontocracy in America how the old are hoarding power and wealth Is America ruled by old people? And how to get younger people into power? Welcome to the program, everyone. I'm Christiane Amanpour. In London, President Trump's immigration crackdown is accelerating. Hundreds of thousands of Haitians are now living in fear and bracing for deportation. The Trump administration has revoked their temporary protected status, removing their right to live and work in the United States. Haiti is plagued by violence and lawlessness with staggering levels of poverty as well. Trump's own State Department advises Americans must not visit that country. Ohio's Republican Governor Mike DeWine tells the administration, quote, you'd be sending people back to hell. There's a growing concern about immigration arrests across the US Airports. Attorneys say ICE agents are increasingly detaining travelers with expired visas. The arrests are part of a broader effort by agents to use various enforcement tactics to increase their arrests and meet President Trump's 2000 a day goal. Correspondent Priscilla Alvarez has more. We will have our guest and our story about ICE deportations in the United States in a moment. But first, scenes of utter devastation across Europe in the wake of wildfires across parts of France and Spain. While some fires have been stabilized over recent days, the danger is far from over. Local authorities in Madrid say that caution is still necessary with rising temperatures and a lack of rain forecast Tens of thousands of residents in the central region regions of Spain have been forced to evacuate. The situation in France is no different, with communities displaced by wildfires and now facing severe temperatures. Nada Bashir has more from one of the country's worst affected regions.
- [03:41]
Reporter
This is a scene which has become all too familiar now in France's southwestern Gironde region. These scorched earth and burnt trees across miles and miles of woodland and farmland in this region as a result of wildfires that have been blazing for days now. And according to an official update on Wednesday, officials have said that the majority of the fires that they have been battling over the last few days have stabilized. They haven't seen any sort of spreading of those fires, although there have been some blazes which have rekindled, although they say that they were quickly dealt with. But we are seeing peak temperatures on Wednesday, today expected to reach around 41 degrees Celsius. So soaring past 100 degrees Fahrenheit, that is what's expected as the heat wave continues. And there is a fear that these extreme temperatures that we are seeing could lead to more fires. And of course, for the residents of this region, there is a huge amount of fear around the potential for more fires. More than 200,000 people already evacuated, many of them desperately waiting for news of when they will be able to return home. But for some, they will not have homes to return to.
- [04:53]
Christiane Amanpour
So this persistent catastrophe continues, and some are saying it's just the beginning in Europe. But let's return to our top story. And my first guest tonight describes Haiti as a war zone, as ice and the United States gets ready to deport hundreds of thousands of Haitians in the United States. Retired Lt. Gen. Russell Henry is well known to many Americans for his leadership after Hurricane Katrina, as well as managing international relief operations in the Caribbean. He's also an expert on disaster preparedness and has advised Haitian organizations. General Honore, welcome. And thanks for joining us from Baton Rouge. Can I start by asking you, General, this is something that you have criticized, this latest Trump administration ramping up of the deportations. But it was temporary protected status, which implies, as the administration points out, that in any event, this status was going to expire. What, what issue do you have with that?
- [05:59]
Lt. Gen. Russell Honore
Well, this group of 350,000 people came to the United States as a result of a natural disaster after the earthquake, government disruption in Haiti, gang violence. They were allowed into the United States under temporary status and the recent Supreme Court decision to terminate those. The problem is they came in gradually, but the intent of the government now is to immediately start deporting 350,000 people into what can be described as a war zone. The State Department has declared, don't go to Haiti, it's not safe. But the Department of Homeland Security want to send 350,000 people. It's not how we MTP when we MTPS, it's how we do it. We heard from people in country at Camp Haitian they're to be prepared for 3,000 people to be deported Monday. Camp Haitian, by all assessment, can't handle 3,000 people in one day. And in Haiti, you got over a million people displaced because of gang violence. Over 2,300 killed. The UN came in with a gang suppression task force that had not materialized. So we don't have security in Haiti. So the exact reason we allowed people to come here because of the administration's position and the exuberance out of the Department of Homeland Security, let's send them all home. And at the same time, the US Is participating and supporting the gang suppression task force. But that hadn't come to fruition. This is a man made disaster in the making in the middle of hurricane season. Christian. This is terrible to treat people that way.
- [07:54]
Christiane Amanpour
Okay, so you have said that this deportation, particularly of these numbers, could just add and feed the chaos over in Haiti. Haiti, as you've described on the US Side, many of these Haitians live in Ohio. And the Republican governor has also criticized this, saying that it would actually really hurt Ohio's society, community and economy. Listen to what he said.
- [08:24]
Lt. Gen. Russell Honore
The city of Springfield has come back strongly over the last few years. An old industrial city that now is really coming back and moving forward. One of the reasons they've been able to do that is because of the Haitians who have filled these jobs. They not only have filled jobs, they've started open restaurants, they bought homes and rehabbed houses. They've done a lot of things that frankly have contributed to the community. And for them to be lost is going to be a big blow to Springfield and it's going to be a big blow to the state of Ohio.
- [08:54]
Christiane Amanpour
So, General, what do you think is behind this? If it's economically harmful for the state that they're living in, if it's harmful for these people to go back to Haiti, what do you think the actual reason is for deporting them all now and in these big numbers?
- [09:13]
Lt. Gen. Russell Honore
I think it's the aspiration of the administration and people in the administration to be as cruel as they can to expedite the deportation of the Haitians back to Haiti. As well as 12 other countries. But the focus right now is on Haiti and in particular the terrorizing that has caused the Haitian families. As of Monday, the Citizenship and Immigration Service have denied them permit to work. So employees are telling Haitians not to come to work. And it's in nursing home, it's in the hospitality business, and as the governor said, it's in industry. So as of Monday, employees, employers can't legally hire Haitians. So they're sitting at home wondering what's going to happen to them. Will it be a van pull up outside? Because there's enough data in the system. TPS people, they know where they live. Are they going to just start rounding them up like some operations that happened in Nazi Germany and just push them to the airplanes and go drop them off? This is not the America I fought and defend for. We used to look out for people that needed help. We used to help the poor and the people that are refugees. And in this particular case, it's cruel. And now we got people can't go to work. People that were working last week can't work this week. It is cruise and unusual punishment to send people back to a country that over a million people are displaced because of gang violence, 2,300 killed this year, and to do it in a very cruel and unusual way. I know Senator Schumer has a bill that would extend the TPS because Haiti cannot successfully accept 350,000 people back with nearly 3 million people, up to 12 million people in the country that don't have food security. Now, Cristiano, this is cruel and unusual, and I don't know why the president would sign off on that.
- [11:27]
Christiane Amanpour
I'm going to get further down into the historic dysfunction in Haiti in a moment and ask you about that. But right now I want to ask you about what you've talked about, which is the gang violence and the amount of violence there is in Haiti. Let me just read from your from your article, you've said that these armed gangs dominate 80 to 90% of the capital, Port au Prince, and large areas of the countryside. Do you think that you and the Haitian prime minister who I interviewed in May about this subject are at odds? Because he says that, yes, a lot of the capital is, you know, is at risk, but in general it's not as bad around the rest of the country. This is what he told me. But back in May when I interviewed
- [12:13]
Lt. Gen. Russell Honore
him, I want to be clear, not all of Haiti is under gang. We have 10 departments, and out of the 10 departments, only three of them are affected by gang violence. Seven departments are non affected, and life goes on as if it was anywhere else in the world.
- [12:37]
Christiane Amanpour
What do you make of that statement?
- [12:42]
Lt. Gen. Russell Honore
Well, I think he's putting the best political face he can on it. And we support the prime minister from the diaspora. But remember, the majority of that population is in and around port au Prince that never recovered from their inquiry. We have not had a stable government there for the last ten years, and we. We don't. We haven't had an election since 2016 and the last president was assassinated. The prime minister is doing the best he can to hold the country together, but the roads going in and out of port au Prince in most cases are controlled by the gang. And the promise from the UN for the gang suppression task force and that at the time of that interview, the prime minister and others in the diaspora had great hopes that the gang depression staff force would be there from the UN and would have solved this problem. So I think it was an optimistic review at the time. But Right now, again, 12 billion people in Haiti and nearly a third of them don't have food security. And the majority of those people live in and around port au Prince. We've got a lot of.
- [13:51]
Christiane Amanpour
And a lot of Haiti depends on the remittances that their relatives and friends send from places like the United States. So that'll compound their poverty there if they're no longer able to work and send those remittances. But I just want to ask you, why did this gang suppression force that we all were told was coming to Haiti? Why has it not materialized in a way that's making any difference?
- [14:19]
Lt. Gen. Russell Honore
Well, you know, it's easy to say we signed up for the gang suppression task force. It's harder for those internal government officials to go back home and put boots on the ground. And we had the same problem during the Biden administration. When we put the Kenyans in there, they put them in as a symbolic force, but they didn't give them communications starling, they didn't give them helicopters. And the lehigh law prevented the US from giving the Kenyans offensive weapons so they could go after the gang. And in lieu of that, the Haitian government has hired Eric Prince mercenaries to go in and go after the gangs. And it's no idea that this is fully collaborated with what's going on in the government. So we've got a disjointed. It's a war zone. So we got another front war in the western hemisphere in the poorest country in the world that we're going to try to send 350,000, mostly working in America, people with permits to work and send them back home out of the cruelty that we're going to deport a million people this year.
- [15:26]
Christiane Amanpour
I just want to ask you, because you've said cruelty many times and you've been, you know, using very harsh language to describe this mass deportation goal. What about Americans who say, listen, you know, this is what we voted for. Trump said he was going to deport as many people as possible who are here in various different statuses. I know these have temporary protected status, but he promised to deport all illegals. What do you say to Americans now about this?
- [16:01]
Lt. Gen. Russell Honore
Well, I think it was a combined thing to close the border, which that's been a successful operation. But the people that are already here and are working, these people are contributing to the economy. And as the governor from Ohio said, and from business people in Florida and New Jersey, where there's a large concentration of Haitian workers, they need those workers to keep their businesses open in nursing home and skill. It's not that they, they need to go home. It's how we're doing it by sending them back into a war zone that is cruel and unusual punishment that we would do that is to send them back in a place that's unstable, that already have food security issues. And the gang suppression Task Force has not come to fruition. If the US Wanted to do something, we would waive the Leahy Law. We would send advisors in there to try to help build the Haitian police and army and make sure that the gangs right now outgun the police. And 90% of the guns that the gangs use are coming out of the state of Florida, according to a recent report from the FBI and the atf. We can help solve this, but we need to be proactive and gradually send people home as opposed to sending trying to send 350,000 starting Monday, with an estimate of 3,000 being deported back at one time in the camp Haitian, while the Port au Prince airport is not open.
- [17:38]
Christiane Amanpour
General, can I ask you, because you have a huge amount of experience. I've also covered Haiti for, you know, a long time, since the mid-90s. And I have witnessed interventions by the United States, you know, deployments by internationals and UN and NGOs, all sorts of efforts to help them build up their security, try to build up their, you know, economic wherewithal and their survival, try to stabilize this country, and it just doesn't work. Where is in your mind the big problem? You have a lot of experience with Haiti. You advise A lot of organizations, what actually needs to happen,
- [18:22]
Lt. Gen. Russell Honore
we need to try to enforce that democracy can work in Haiti. And the challenge that we've seen is the corruption that can happen in a democracy without accountability and without proper judicial actions. And as the history has shown in the last two decades, much of the elected officials have not looked out for their people. They've looked out for themselves and their friends, which has come at the detriment of the Haitian people. The Haitian people that I've gotten to know are hard working. They love their country, they have pride in their country, but democracy has not treated them well, has not been kind, as we can see in our own country. Holding on to a democracy is hard, and it's harder after a major earthquake and the assassination of a president. We need to give Haitian people a chance to come up with a Plan 80 that make democracy work in Haiti. And they need the support of not just the US but the rest of what we call the core group, Canada and France, who are all standing on the sidelines and go in and do minimum work. We need to get the NGOs back and get commerce working in Haiti and get the schools and the hospitals open. Imagine we're sending people into a place where most of the schools in Port au Prince are closed, the hospital's been destroyed, and the gangs are in control. It doesn't make Sense to send 350,000 people that are currently working in America back into a war zone.
- [19:56]
Christiane Amanpour
Cristiano, I mean, I can see what you're saying, and I just want to do a little bit of a swerve because you are also very well known for managing the humanitarian relief and other relief operations, you know, after Hurricane Katrina. And you probably read the recent article in Politico about effectively the politicization of disaster relief. So let me get this straight. The Trump White House, they say, is blocking Democratic led states from getting millions of dollars in disaster aid that's inside the U.S. according to Politico, Trump has approved just 23% of disaster funding requests from blue states, democratic states, and 89% for red states. What impact do you think that will have?
- [20:45]
Lt. Gen. Russell Honore
Well, he's giving favor to red states and punishing blue states that didn't vote for him. This is sort of the characteristic of this government. On the other hand, I remember working with President George Bush. He had a pretty good record of approving most of those that came across his desk, not based on whether that state voted for you or if you like, the senator from that state, but under this government, being in a blue state with a blue governor, with a blue a Democratic senator. It's putting states and local government at risk for over $230 million that's sitting on the table even though it was approved by fema. It got to the White House and the president said no. And the rationale has been is that he's approving disaster relief for Republican states, but not doing it for Democratic things. And that's not the intent of the money appropriated by Congress to go to these disasters.
- [21:48]
Christiane Amanpour
Cristiano, General Russell Henry, thank you for being with us and highlighting this important unfolding story regarding Haitians and their deportation back to their own ravaged country. We'll be right back after this short break.
- [22:12]
Announcer
This episode is brought to you by ebay Live. First, you're just watching ebay live. Then a Fendi baguette goes for an absolute steal. A 90s NASCAR jacket comes up and you have to bid that winning feeling. It's such a rush because you know, everyone, everyone else wanted it, too. Meanwhile, on ebay Live, you don't just
- [22:33]
Lt. Gen. Russell Honore
watch the action, you're in it. Download the ebay app to stream and
- [22:37]
Announcer
shop live Ebay live things people love.
- [22:41]
Lt. Gen. Russell Honore
Hey guys, have you heard of Goldbelly? It's this amazing site where they ship the most iconic famous foods from restaurants
- [22:48]
Announcer
across the country anywhere nationwide. I've never found a more perfect gift than food.
- [22:53]
Lt. Gen. Russell Honore
Gold belly ship Chicago deep dish pizza,
- [22:56]
Announcer
New York bagels, Maine lobster rolls and
- [22:59]
Lt. Gen. Russell Honore
even Ina Garden's famous cake.
- [23:01]
Announcer
So if you're looking for a gift
- [23:02]
Lt. Gen. Russell Honore
for the food lover in your life, head to goldbelly.com and get 20% off
- [23:06]
Samuel Moyn
your first order with promo code GIFT.
- [23:09]
Announcer
That's goldbelly.com promo code GIFT.
- [23:17]
Christiane Amanpour
Now, a new report says 2025 was the deadliest year for anti Semitic attacks in the Jewish diaspora in over 30 years. That's according to J7, part of the ADL. At the same time, harrowing suffering continues in Gaza with Palestinians dying every day. A parish priest there describes the worsening humanitarian crisis as, quote, beyond disastrous. Nine months into a supposed ceasefire, Israel now controls nearly 70% of the territory and according to the Palestinian Ministry of Health, has killed over 1,000 Palestinians in strikes that in that time. Meantime, in the west bank, settler violence continues despite ongoing international condemnation as Israelis gear up for elections. Will this policy change? Nir Hassan is a correspondent for the Israeli paper Haaretz and he's focused heavily on what's happening to Gaza over the past few years. And he's joining us from Jerusalem. Nihasson, welcome back to the program. I just want to basically get your take on what the feeling is in Israel right now as the country gears up for elections. You know, there are a lot of opposition parties that are running either ahead or neck and neck with Netanyahu. What do you think is, is the lay of the land now?
- [24:39]
Nir Hassan
Well, I think there's a lot of optimism among, at least in the last two weeks or so among the camp that opposed Netanyahu and his government. Because poll after poll, survey after survey, we see that Netanyahu have no majority for his next government after the election. However, I think that this campaign is not dealing with the real issues that the Israeli society need to face up with. And this is what happened in Gaza, what happened in the West Bank. It's mostly around, I mean, the campaigns and the election is mostly around the character of Netanyahu itself and not about what's happened here in the last two years. This is how I feel.
- [25:31]
Christiane Amanpour
So, okay, so before I get to what's happening, I want to ask you this though, because you know, Netanyahu press promise to destroy Hamas, it hasn't actually happened. And to end the war, which I don't know whether you consider it ended, but it still continues. What do people think about those pledges he made?
- [25:56]
Nir Hassan
Well, it depends what side of the Israeli political map you are, you are looking at. I think it's very difficult to argue that Netanyahu's successes with the war that he ran in the last two years. Hamas is still in power in Gaza. Hezbollah still have some power in Lebanon. He didn't solve the issue in Iran, of course, however, like in the state in Israel as well. The facts are not really important when we're coming to the campaign. What matters is the discourse around the character of Netanyahu, around his opponents. So this is what bothered me. The facts on the ground are not on the field of the campaign. It's not on the discourse.
- [27:10]
Christiane Amanpour
So let's talk about the facts on the ground. So it's been about nine months since Trump laid out the 20 point plan to end the Gaza war. There was the ceasefire, all the hostages, the, the live ones were released and bodies came out. But the progress obviously has stalled the firing and the strikes continue. And as I said, something like a thousand Palestinians have been killed in Gaza in the last nine months or so. What is the status, do you think? Tell us because we can't get in. I know you're covering it from outside, but what is actually happening on the ground? Where does this 20 point peace plan stand for instance,
- [27:48]
Nir Hassan
so not a lot change in Gaza since October, since the ceasefire went into power. The situation in Gaza, the living conditions in Gaza are still extremely tough and horrible. Hundreds of thousands of people living in tents, without electricity, without running water, with no functioning sewage system, with spread of infectious diseases, with bugs and rats and wild dogs all around them. There's no even the beginning of, of some kind of rebuilding of rehabilitation in Gaza. It seems that all the big plans of President Trump are still on the paper. I don't see anything change there. Actually. I spoke today with someone from Gaza and he told me that the amount of despair among the people there is much worse than what it was a year ago when the war is still running. Because nothing has changed. Because. Yeah, and as you said, Israel expand the territory that it controlled, the IDF expand the territory under his control in Gaza and push the Palestinians to as smallest to. To a small area in the Moissi. And you have to consider the weather, the temperature in the tents. It's like a greenhouse. It's very tough. And it's the third summer in the world that people live in under this condition. I don't see how anything changed there. And yeah, it's really despair for me at least.
- [29:57]
Christiane Amanpour
Yeah, well, I must say the pictures are appalling. Tell me something. I don't know what the situation with Hamas is. There are reports that they might be rearming. They certainly haven't disarmed. What do you think the goal of the Israeli political and military class is? And what difference would it make if there was another Israeli government that wasn't Netanyahu, that wasn't, you know, the ultra right extremists in his coalition? Do you think it would make an actual material difference to solving the situation or not?
- [30:36]
Nir Hassan
This is a very tough question because I think the next government of Israel will be better and because I cannot imagine a bolster government than the one we have today. However, I do afraid that this government could not deal with the real issues that shape our life here between the sea and the river. You know, I just published 2 weeks ago a story about the death of children in Gaza. I received hundreds of response from Israelis, mocking, laughing, you know, adding laughing emojis, saying why so little, why we didn't kill, we don't kill the children in Gaza faster and it's better them to die before they will become a terrorist, etc. Etc. And this dehumanization, this racism, this violence in the Israeli society cannot be fixed by election. I think we need years, maybe decades to refer the Israeli society after this government and what happened in the last three years. So I'm not very much optimistic to the future and the next government.
- [32:03]
Christiane Amanpour
So as you know, of course, you know, because you're reporting on it, there's a massive spike, as there has been since October 7, of really untrammeled and uncontrolled settler violence in the occupied West Bank. And you know, we see the results of it all the way over here. And now you've seen that some 600 retired IDF generals and colonels and other members of the military and security and intelligence establishment have written a letter to President Trump asking him to condemn the Jewish settler activity and to relay that to Netanyahu. So Netanyahu was just in Washington. Do you think there is any impact that the US Government or the Trump administration could have on Netanyahu? And don't forget this whole board of peace and the 20 point plan is a result of the Trump administration and the Jared Kushner and Steven Witkoff. I mean, we don't hear anything more about that right now.
- [33:03]
Nir Hassan
Yes, of course, of course. I think that the Trump have a leverage can push Netanyahu to stop what happening in the West Bank. I think we should call it in its name what's going on in the West Bank. It's an ethnic cleansing. By definition, hundreds of, not hundreds, maybe tens of Palestinians communities were forced to leave their villages in the last two years or so. And this ethnic cleansing is going on under a very symbiotic collaboration between the settlers and the government and the IDF, with collective punishment that we see now in Nablus with these Jewish terror attacks against Palestinians, with the total indifference by the police and the IDF to these crimes that committed by the et cetera. And so we have to call it in its name it's ethnic cleansing. And I do think the only way that this government will do something to hold it is by international pressure, especially from the government, the U.S. government.
- [34:37]
Christiane Amanpour
And finally, what do you make of the report by the ADL, the J7 countries, that the level of anti Semitism has spiked to a level unknown in 30 years in the diaspora. What do you make of that?
- [34:56]
Nir Hassan
What I make of it is that I think there is a. Well, first of all, we have
- [35:06]
Reporter
to
- [35:07]
Nir Hassan
define what antisemitism is exactly. And to take out criticism against Israel, which many in the Israeli government considered as anti Semitism. And I do not. But there is anti Semitism. I do not ignore it. But I think, I think we also have to see the connection between what Israel does in the west bank and in Gaza and those waves of anti Semitism around the world, we have to take some responsibilities on that as well.
- [35:48]
Christiane Amanpour
Nir Hasan, thank you so much indeed for joining us. Now, more than a third of sitting U.S. senators are over 70 years old. And according to a recent CNN poll, 58% of Americans say this poses major problems. Take Senator Mitch McConnell, who's been absent since June. The 84 year old is now in rehab after time in hospital recovering from a fall back in June. But this hasn't silenced concern about his fitness to serve the governor. Andy Beshear has called for him to fully reveal his health status or resign. Our next guest calls this elderly cohort the old Ikaki. Samuel Moin is a professor at Yale and he joins Hari Srinivasan to discuss all this.
- [36:34]
Samuel Moyn
Christian thanks. Samuel Moyn, you've written a recent book. Thanks so much for joining us to talk about it. It's called Gerontocracy in How the Old Are Hoarding wealth and what to Do About It. First, let's just define the term. What's a gerontocracy and how is America run by one according to your stats?
- [36:52]
Announcer
Well, gerontocracy is like the word democracy, except this word means rule of buy. And for the old people, give me
- [36:59]
Samuel Moyn
an example of a disastrous effect because of our politicians being a certain age versus our electorate.
- [37:04]
Announcer
Well, I think we should start with the politicians just because we're already talking about them, but see them as the tip of the iceberg since after all, it might not matter how old they are if the electorate is old. If Donald Trump somehow doesn't make it another year, we'll immediately have the youngest president in U.S. history. But we will still have a gerontocracy because of how old the voters are reaching. In some primaries, like in New Mexico in 2024, a median age of 72 and how old wealth is. The age group likeliest to own a home in this country is 70 to 74. The age group second most likely, 75 and above. And we know that the age of home buying has increased spectacularly over the last 25 years. So those are examples. But really it's pervasive.
- [38:00]
Samuel Moyn
If you wrote this book in 1900, the numbers would be different, partly just because we weren't living as long. Right. I mean our average age was what, 47.3 according to to the CDC back in 1900. And here we are now the average age is somewhere around 79 or 80. So doesn't it just naturally occur that if our medical Advances and our, you know, our improvement in the quality of life overall in the last 125 years has improved that people would be living longer and therefore having more money, having more power, of course.
- [38:32]
Announcer
So, you know, life extension is behind it all. And the fact that we do expect to live long lives is something to celebrate for sure. It's just that there's a dark side to it. And what I see is that once the current old people, the silence, and especially the boomers, entered the stage of history, they were there at the right time to benefit from life extension. And what's happened is they set up a new American reality in which older people control so much more of our national resources and exercise so much greater power in elections that we wouldn't even expect it based just on the sheer fact of life extension, in part because they've succeeded in building in, you know, formal privileges for themselves that are going to, of course, going to be inherited by future generations when they get old too. So that's why it's not exactly one generation that the problem, but a gerontocracy that's going to be benefiting older people for as long as we can imagine.
- [39:44]
Samuel Moyn
So one of the things that you suggest is an age limit to positions in different types of political office or federal office. What would that look like?
- [39:55]
Announcer
Well, age limits for politicians are wildly popular. I mean, they poll extremely well. And one reason to favor them over term limits, which are pretty well understood and in part because we've adopted them at the state level, is that politicians are entering political careers much later in life. And that means that a clock that starts ticking, in a sense, too late, won't head off the problem of cognitive decline or death we've been dealing with. And so an age limit is very simple. It would just say that at a certain age, I mean, I think, you know, sometime around the age of 70, but we could push it higher. Yeah, would be a reasonable age limit, but we could also leave it flexible.
- [40:46]
Samuel Moyn
That idea. I think one of the reasons that it chafes against people is that there seems to be something anti democratic about it. Like if this is the will of the people, this is the person that we want to elect despite their age, despite their background, whatever it is. It's this group of people and it was our voice and we want to elect this person whether they're 23 or that they're 83. Right. How do you square that?
- [41:08]
Announcer
Well, first of all, it only chafes a minority because as I mentioned, a vast majority favors age limits for our politicians. But I think we should give love to those who dissent because they're making a reasonable point. What I think they're missing is that we don't have democracy. We have gerontocracy. And so the system we have is systematically producing older politicians. And so we have to do something to correct it. We see this in two ways. The incumbency advantage in American politics is huge. And that means that for most people of most ages, you're not even able to able to vote for someone your own age, only an older person. And then we look at the voters and especially who's financing elections, and they're also extremely old. So if we end up with a system that we call democracy, but is actually older people choosing and paying for the results of elections, then we've kind of kidded ourselves that it's democratic in the first place.
- [42:11]
Reporter
Place.
- [42:11]
Samuel Moyn
Okay, here's a simple argument that I can hear any retirement community voter making. Hey, look, you know what? If young people cared so much, they should get out and vote. The fact that their apathy is contributing to this, they can outvote me. There's so many more of them than there are me. So what's the problem with that?
- [42:32]
Announcer
Thinking I'm for shaming younger people, but not too much without recognizing that it's a structural problem. In a few ways, we punish younger people for being mobile through registration requirements. It's much easier if you're retired or powerful at work to leave to go to the polls. We have so many elections that younger people aren't able to maybe have the time and bandwidth to focus on everyone. And that's why in the really decisive ones, like primaries, where candidates are mostly chosen, they're less likely to. To show up. Finally, I think we have a syndrome of young people being alienated from our political system. And no wonder, because who did they see in power? What do they see as the policies that are coming out when they care about climate change, but older voters are least likely to care about it and get their way and kick it down the road. Why would you invest invest in a system that's broken? I think we should, and we should urge younger people to go to vote, but not without understanding that they think it's rigged. And they're right.
- [43:46]
Samuel Moyn
You spend quite a bit of time in the book also taking the entire judiciary to task. I mean, you point out the, you know, how old the average age of the Supreme Court justices are and how long they serve and also really just the federal bench of lifetime appointments.
- [43:59]
Announcer
I do, you know, Here it's not just that the federal government is an outlier compared to the states, which have widespread age limits for judges. But in world perspective, no country has life tenure for judges. And especially when we have such extraordinary power that our Supreme Court justices have, there's really no argument that I've seen in favor of letting them stay around for life. We know that in that situation, they're often making bets on their own longevity, especially if they want to be replaced by a friend from their own party. Ruth Ginsburg did, and the result of losing her bet, sadly, was the destruction of abortion rights at the federal level for millions of women.
- [44:48]
Samuel Moyn
In addition to political power, you believe that older Americans are also hoarding wealth as well. A 2011 Pew Research report said that between 1984 and 2009, the median net worth of households headed by adults 65 and older rose 42%, while the median net worth of households headed by adults under 35 fell by 68%. When you look at the bank accounts of groups in different age group brackets, what's been happening over the past several
- [45:24]
Announcer
years, over the past decades, with only a couple of interruptions, the age wealth gap has exploded. Americans are maybe more familiar with the racial wealth gap, where if you're not white, you're likely not to be as wealthy. The age wealth gap is far worse. Of course, we'd expect older people to have more because they've had more time to accumulate it. But over the last decades, the gap between the old and everyone else has expanded dramatically. And we have a situation now where the younger age cohort under 40 controls just a fraction, like 5 to 10% of overall American wealth, where those over 50 control something like 80%. And so what we're seeing is a concentration of means, including means to change our politics at the upper end of the age spectrum like it's never been in U.S. history.
- [46:35]
Samuel Moyn
One of the reasons that seniors tell me that if they are saving their money and not spending it and not passing it on is because that the cost of elder care in this country is so unattainable for so many people. A recent Washington Post analysis found that the Median American spent $19,179 out of pocket on care in their final decade. One in six spent more than 50,000 and one in 20 spent more than $100,000. Is it possible that the elderly are just holding on to that money, knowing that they're going to need need it to age comfortably in these last years?
- [47:11]
Announcer
It's not just possible, it's definite because we know from studies that it's scary to get old and it's always going to be scary because death is scary. But a lot of people just don't know how expensive it's going to be and above all, for how long they're going to need funds. But we should also be honest. There are a lot of rich old people for whom the state amounts you cited aren't a lot. And then there are those who reasonably expect the kind of welfare state that Europeans have where long term care is covered. And, you know, we should tax the first group and to the second group we should say, come with us and build an America in which you don't have to fear getting older and not being able to, to afford, you know, just the basic decencies of life.
- [48:06]
Samuel Moyn
Let's talk a bit about economic access to capital and how the sort of money and jobs breaks down in America. You're saying right now there are, you know, the C suites are top heavy with people who are older and just aren't getting out of the way. Should I sort of put constraints on your critiques here that you're talking about white collar executive?
- [48:34]
Announcer
Absolutely right.
- [48:35]
Samuel Moyn
Because there are a lot of people in America who cannot afford to retire. I mean, that's a completely different crisis. But there are a lot of elder people working jobs that are just minimum wage or better.
- [48:49]
Announcer
Exactly. Or worse. You know, the poverty rate for older Americans is no worse than anyone else's, and it's far better than the poverty rate of children, in part because we have a system that always preserves elder benefits, but is willing, like in Donald Trump's one big beautiful bill, to cut aid for poor children. But you're absolutely right. We should help those aging Americans who need help even more than we do. Now. The question is about who has power. And there we can see that it's also the aging who have disproportionately more, I would argue too much. So the challenge is to deal with both problems at once. But it's very doable.
- [49:34]
Samuel Moyn
Okay, so what are the most practical solutions here? You've talked about trying to increase youth representation. You've talked about mandatory limits on certain types of jobs. What are things that we could actually politically do to try to fix this?
- [49:54]
Announcer
Well, I'll just mention housing because we haven't talked a lot about it, but we do need to break the stranglehold of older people on the housing stock. And I think the most feasible way, and it's very reasonable, is to figure out how to make land use decisions outside the local level, which Are sadly controlled by older people going to the relevant meetings. And the sad thing is the results are that new building is blocked even for senior appropriate housing. So if we did believe that not just younger people deserve a fair shot at their own home, but that older people deserve their senior appropriate housing, whether it's state built or privately built, we need to figure out how to make sure that there's more housing built in the first place that's appropriate for folks of all ages. I also think this is gonna be a little bit more controversial, but relaxing our immigration restrictionism, which has surged in the last couple of decades, is a must. Actually, it turns out that older voters are most in favor of immigration controls. And yet they're the ones who might benefit the most from more Americans. Because who's gonna work to pay for their Social Security and who's gonna do the work of caring for them but immigrants? And so this is another example of how there are easily available fixes that ought not to be a hard sell. It's just that we don't have the politicians to voice the need for them. And why is that? Well, that takes us back to the age of our politicians, I'm afraid.
- [51:43]
Samuel Moyn
The book is called gerontocracy in America. Author Samuel Moyn, thanks so much.
- [51:49]
Announcer
Thank you.
- [51:51]
Christiane Amanpour
Interesting points. And finally, the wind reverberating around the world this week, ending one of the longest droughts in sports history and breaking an Irish curse. The people of county Mayo in the west of Ireland are celebrating victory in the all Ireland Gaelic football championship. After waiting 75 years to lift the trophy. Just look at these scenes of jubilation.
- [52:16]
Lt. Gen. Russell Honore
The green and red ome was about
- [52:18]
Christiane Amanpour
to be heard all over the world.
- [52:20]
Announcer
This is sensational.
- [52:22]
Lt. Gen. Russell Honore
This is mind boggling.
- [52:23]
Announcer
This is a point.
- [52:26]
Lt. Gen. Russell Honore
75 years of heartbreak are about to end.
- [52:30]
Announcer
1936. 1950.
- [52:33]
Lt. Gen. Russell Honore
1951. And surely now, 2026. Listen to the roar. 75 years of heartbreak is over. Now the all Ireland Senior football champions.
- [52:50]
Announcer
2026.
- [52:53]
Christiane Amanpour
It really matters. An amateur sport, no less. These players don't get paid. American viewers will have heard of the Boston Red sox curse of the bambino, finally broken in 2000. 2004. Or the Chicago Cubs curse of the billy goat, which lasted 71 years. Well, folklore says Mayo were cursed by an Irish priest back in 1951. Their win now has been viewed tens of millions of times. Winning congratulations from Joe biden, Canadian prime minister Mark Carney and the band Oasis. All sons of Mayo. That is it for now. If you ever miss our show, you can find the latest episode shortly after it airs on our podcast. And remember, you can always catch us online, on our website and all over social media. Thanks for watching and goodbye from London.
- [53:45]
Lt. Gen. Russell Honore
Go inside the sports moments that brought us together and made history. From the underdogs to the rivalries and the miracles. The new CNN original series, Decades in Sports Watch Back to Back premieres August 2nd on CNN and next day on the CNN app.