American Alchemy with Jesse Michels
Episode: CIA Chief: "I Know How to Time Travel!"
Guest: Rolf Mowatt-Larssen
Date: February 14, 2026
Episode Overview
In this expansive, four-hour conversation, Jesse Michels interviews Rolf Mowatt-Larssen, a former CIA station chief, Department of Energy (DOE) intelligence director, religious mystic, and author of State of Mind: Faith in the CIA. Rolf shares stories from the highest levels of global diplomacy and espionage—briefing presidents, confronting nuclear threats, and working in Moscow post-Soviet collapse—while weaving in deeply personal accounts of mystical encounters, time travel experiences, dreams with prophetic overtones, and his extraordinary relationship with God and the Virgin Mary.
Rolf claims to have lived for months as a monk in medieval Mount Athos in a waking, physically real time-travel experience, and discusses the spiritual, philosophical, and metaphysical dimensions of reality, as well as the nature of secret-keeping, UFOs, and existential risk in the nuclear age.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Background and Book Motivation
[07:08]
- Rolf introduces his book as the story of his relationship with God, rather than a prescriptive religious text.
- From a young age, he felt the presence of a creator and personal God, communicating continuously through prayer.
- Faith is defined not by religious labels but by the ongoing development of that direct relationship with God.
Quote:
"I wrote the book because I wanted people to benefit from my story, which is really my relationship with God…not as what I called myself or what people thought of me in religious terms..."
—Rolf, [07:47]
2. Espionage Career & Intersection with Faith
[10:46]
- 9 tours overseas as a CIA officer, including Chief of Moscow Station.
- Served during pivotal historical moments: collapse of the USSR, post-9/11 counterterrorism, WMD proliferation.
- Encountered moral and existential tension between serving country and serving faith.
Quote:
“The first day I walked in CIA headquarters, you see the stars on the wall... right next to that... was this large, bold imprint... John 8:32, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. I wondered... were we truth seekers or not truth seekers?”
—Rolf, [11:03]
3. 9/11 Counterterrorism and National Security
[16:36]
- Pulled to run CIA's WMD department post-9/11, with direct access to the President.
- Shares the story of persuading President Bush to bomb a terrorist camp in northeast Iraq—an "unhealthy obsession."
- Discusses internal debates over the Iraq invasion and the moral complexity of intelligence "failures".
Quote:
“I briefed the President... he said, ‘Rolf, what would you do if you were me?’ ...I said, Mr. President, I'd bomb it.”
—Rolf, [21:59]
4. Nuclear Brinkmanship & Existential Risk
[26:50]
- Recount of the chaos and terror in early 90s Russia—securing “suitcase nukes,” preventing terrorists from gaining nuclear arms.
- Despite newer threats like AI and biowarfare, nuclear risk remains paramount.
Quote:
“Nuclear weapons are still for me, the king of the hill, because it can happen that fast.”
—Rolf, [28:02]
5. Prophetic Dreams, Mystical Numbers, and Personal Revelation
[28:37]; [33:05]
- Vivid “apocalyptic” dreams throughout life, starting with a recurring number: 747, followed by cubes: 3, 6, 9, 12, 18, 27, 40.
- Wife independently dreams the same sequence, providing uncanny corroboration.
- Unexplained synchronicities (strangers telling him to read Ezekiel, Daniel, Revelation; finding a grave with his “author” name and birth date).
Quote:
"I saw these numbers roll out in cubes... 747. The number 747 becomes a lifelong number for me, like a mystical number."
—Rolf, [32:24]
- Dreams as Warnings: Dreams of historical events (e.g., Sadat’s assassination) before they occur, with details later corroborated.
6. Time Travel & The Mount Athos Pilgrimage
[63:50]; [67:44]
- Describes a waking, physically real time travel: falling asleep at Mount Athos, traversing backwards through centuries, and living months as medieval monk "Odius Maximus" in the 1400s.
- Experiences are multi-layered—dreams within dreams, flying, burning huts—feeling fully embodied and “trapped” in history.
Quote:
"With every step I'm taking, the time is going back... It was as if time was evaporating... I could not be certain I'd ever get back to my old world."
—Rolf, [75:18]
- Later discovers Maximos the Monk (“flying monk”) is a real historical figure at Mount Athos, matching his dream’s actions—unknown to him at the time.
7. Apparitions and Encounters with the Virgin Mary
[64:14]; [128:48]
- Multiple profound Marian apparitions: first sensed as deep pathos in 1800s Paris brothel during time travel episode; later, explicit encounters—rain of cleansing mud, a message to write to the Pope.
- Physical, radiant apparitions—distinct from dreams—with lasting ecstatic and spiritual impact.
Quote:
"It was the only time in my life... I was in a state of ecstasy... an incredible feeling... write a letter to the Pope."
—Rolf, [130:57]
- Only later learns Marian encounters are common lore at Mount Athos. His own experience is corroborated by monks and even the Orthodox and Catholic authorities.
8. Physics, Numbers, and Reality
[54:31]; [141:54]
- Mystical numbers possibly connected to religious, historical, or yet-unknown physical truths.
- Calls on physicists to help explain mystical experiences—suggests a "universe at rest" outside our spacetime, in which God and angels may exist.
- Open to the idea that time is an illusion, referencing both mysticism and quantum theory.
Quote:
"The numbers help because they take communication on a far more objective level... I'm now more convinced there must be a way of overcoming time."
—Rolf, [53:00, 145:05]
9. Department of Energy, UFOs, and Secrets
[194:21]; [202:43]; [208:24]
- DOE has secrets "more important than CIA" and a culture of deep compartmentalization.
- The infamous DOE "UFO hazing ritual" for new officials illustrates a culture of secrecy and rumor around extraterrestrials and advanced tech.
- Rolf: no direct knowledge of UFO/alien crash retrieval or reverse engineering, but acknowledges the plausibility and compartmentalization (could exist even unbeknownst to him).
- Discusses government mishandling of secrets, the need for greater transparency, and the corrosive impact of excessive classification.
Quote:
"I know it's true—DOE does stuff that, man... If there's a deep state, I want to know who's in it..."
—Rolf, [199:14]
- Expresses respect for UFO whistleblowers (e.g., Jim Semivan, David Grusch), but personally was not read-in on any such programs.
10. Apocalypse, AI, and Human Destiny
[232:23]
- Prophetic dream of a world devastated by nuclear war in 2034; role as global “watchman” staving off apocalypse through vigilance and warning rather than direct prevention.
- Considers AI and genetics as next likely existential “unlock”—humanity’s destiny entwined with its capacity (or failure) to wield God-like power selflessly.
- Final philosophy: salvation and survival rest in self-sacrifice and humility, rather than the pursuit of power.
Quote:
"The more you can remove yourself from any honor or glory in faith, the more responsibility God will give you, to promote the faith. Because it can't be about you."
—Rolf, [118:25]
Notable Quotes & Moments
-
On the realness of time travel experiences:
Jesse: "Does all of this feel as real as this interview feels?"
Rolf: "Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah." [76:43] -
On the Virgin Mary apparition:
Rolf: "It was a light so bright that it bore no resemblance to visible light..." [130:20]
"Don't reach. God lies within you. Don't want, you have no needs, don't strive, There is no purpose." [137:00s] -
On DOE secrecy and UFO rumors:
Rolf: "We keep the real secrets" (DOE slogan, with alien icon) [194:25]
"If I knew we had evidence of extraterrestrial visits, I'd go to the press." [200:33] -
On compartmentalization and plausible deniability:
"There's all kinds of things I probably don't know..." [248:34] -
On the purpose of the Watchman:
"Your job is to warn..." [224:37] -
On paradigm shift and future disclosure:
Jesse: "It feels like...we're on the verge of a paradigm shift."
Rolf: "For sure it does...a big paradigm shift. It’s probably going to be something we’ve never anticipated..." [235:19]
Timestamps for Key Segments
- Personal faith and mystical worldview: [07:08] – [13:47]
- CIA career & post-9/11 work: [14:29] – [26:43]
- Prophetic dreams & numerology: [28:37] – [54:51]
- Time travel/Mount Athos: [63:50] – [103:52]
- Virgin Mary apparitions: [128:48] – [140:41]
- Physics, metaphysics, numbers as language: [141:54] – [151:44]
- DOE secrets & UFO discussion: [194:21] – [217:03]
- Nuclear/AI risk & human destiny: [227:40] – [232:23]
- Final thoughts on service, faith, and future disclosure: [254:09] – end
Episode Takeaways
- Espionage and mysticism both informed Rolf’s worldview—the pursuit of God and the pursuit of truth converged.
- Countless anomalous experiences, “downloads” of numbers and prophetic dreams, seem to overlap with historical places, people, and events.
- His time-travel experience in Mount Athos—strongly corroborated by historical research—remains one of the most vivid and mysterious moments.
- Religion, numbers, metaphysics, and physics are, for Rolf, intertwined paths toward the nature of reality.
- No direct disclosure of UFO/alien programs—evidence either deeply hidden or not available to even the most senior insiders. Widespread secrecy may be stifling the truth.
- The greatest threats to the world remain nuclear weapons and the mismanagement of unprecedented power—spiritual humility and sacrificial service are, perhaps, humanity’s only hope.
For Listeners Who Haven't Tuned In
This episode is a rare convergence of high-level intelligence insight, authentic spiritual mysticism, and philosophical depth. Rolf Mowatt-Larssen’s narrative challenges conventional reality and offers unique wisdom at the intersection of state secrets, metaphysics, and the search for ultimate truth.