Congressman: “President Trump Was Briefed On Alien Hybrids!”

Summary

American Alchemy with Jesse Michels

Episode: Congressman: "President Trump Was Briefed On Alien Hybrids!”

Released: July 2, 2026 Host: Jesse Michels
Guest: Congressman Eric Burleson (Missouri)

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Episode Overview

In this wide-ranging, candid, and often extraordinary conversation, host Jesse Michels sits down with Missouri Congressman Eric Burleson, one of the most visible figures in Congress advocating for UFO transparency and government accountability on UAP (unidentified anomalous phenomena). The episode delves into government secrecy, claims of anti-gravitic technologies, mysterious deaths among UFO researchers, hidden special access programs, hybrid beings, consciousness phenomena, and the evolving state of “Disclosure”—the ongoing official release of UAP-related information.

Burleson opens up about his journey from software developer to congressman; his radical skepticism of government secrecy; the push for open hearings and document releases; direct interactions with serving and former intelligence officials, whistleblowers, and scientists; his own consciousness-raising moments; and where he thinks the search for the truth about UFOs is headed—both the progress and its surreal roadblocks.

The conversation, rich in detail and specificity, is a must-read for anyone following the current state of UFO disclosure and the shifting attitudes within the US government and intelligence community.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Government Secrecy and Anti-Gravitic Technology

• Hidden Tech and Scientific Suppression

  • Burleson expresses deep frustration over the possibility of government suppression of breakthrough physics, especially "anti-gravitic information", keeping it from the scientific community and public.

  "If we discover that our government has held onto anti gravitic information from the scientific community, I'm going to be really pissed." (Burleson, 00:00, 10:58)

  • Jesse and Burleson discuss lost or covered-up research (e.g., Townsend Brown, Amy Eskridge, Ning Li) that hints at profound breakthroughs linked to UFO technology.

• Suspicious Scientist Deaths

  • Cases like Amy Eskridge (alleged suicide, claims of being targeted with directed energy) and Ning Li (solid state superconductor research, mysterious disappearance) are explored as examples of how fringe research often comes with "weird" dangers. (13:01–15:49)

2. Congressional Investigation Strategy

• Focus on FFRDCs and Private Defense Contractors
  • Burleson's investigations target Federally Funded Research and Development Centers (FFRDCs) like MITRE, Aerospace Corporation, MIT Lincoln Labs, which act as government-adjacent but "privately" operated black boxes for UAP-related work and legacy programs.

  "I think that there's enough rhetoric and enough speculation that it warrants us deep diving into MITRE." (16:29)

• Specific Actions
  • Requests include historical audio files—e.g., a classified 1952 reel-to-reel briefing on "saucers" at MIT Lincoln Lab (21:00–22:13).
  • Working with the FBI and foreign governments on incidents such as the Varhinha case in Brazil. [23:09–24:23]

3. Congressman Burleson's Entry into UFO Politics

• Catalyst: David Grusch’s Whistleblower Testimony

  • Burleson describes being inspired by Grusch to "do something" as a newly elected congressman, reaching out to Grusch directly.
  • Describes his approach: "If the government is keeping this from the people, that makes me crazy." (10:06)

• Skepticism and Earnest Inquiry

  • Burleson is clear: he does not automatically believe every wild claim, demands receipts and evidence, and is not afraid to call things “beyond the pale.”

  "I try to be really cautious whenever I'm being asked about things...this is only what was told to me. I don't necessarily believe this...I just have not, oftentimes they're lacking the evidence." (46:18–46:30)

4. Encounters with Whistleblowers & Insiders

• Visits to Facilities

  • Describes successful efforts to visit Pax River (Patuxent River Naval Air Station), meeting with scientist Salvatore Pais, and seeing "exotic" projects.

  "I met Salvatore Pais there...We started talking about his patents...they admitted that one of them, that they did, I believe it's the anti gravitic one, but they weren't able to have any definitive results." (35:00–36:54)

  • Notes how even having these visits is a major breakthrough compared to historic stonewalling (the "Goldwater tried, failed" comparison).

• Difficulty Penetrating the 'Onion'

  • The true nature of legacy UFO programs may be centered in defense contractors and FFRDCs with “vital sub compartments”—layers even the top government officials struggle to breach.

  "The higher you go, the more broad things are and the less people know...nobody really asks the right questions." (108:23)

5. Phenomenological Weirdness: Orbs, Plasma, and Consciousness

• Military Close Encounters

  • Burleson shares details of briefings given directly to him by US intelligence community:

  "They had landed a helicopter and got a call that radar picked up several UAPs...what they interact with are basically glowing orbs...they are some type of spherical, nebulous...like a ball of plasma...they operated intelligently," (53:35–56:27)

  • These incidents elevated UAP investigations to “top 10 priorities” in US government.

• Concept of Sentient Plasma Life

  • Refers to Grusch’s statements about “sentient plasmoid life” as one class of non-human intelligence and draws connections to ancient records of plasma phenomena (e.g., green fireballs post-1945).
  • Contemplates the need for taxonomy and categorization—triangles, discs, orbs, "sentient plasma", each possibly indicative of different origins or technologies. (57:18–58:00)

• Consciousness Encounters

  • Discusses attempts made by experiencers to "call in" UAPs via consciousness, e.g., Chris Bledsoe, Steven Greer. Burleson tried it with Bledsoe; nothing happened ("maybe my skepticism was hurting the signal") (48:55–51:19).
  • Reports of "downloads" from highly credible individuals; not fringe types—some respected in business and government. (119:05–120:34)

6. Public Testimony, Deaths, and Pushback

• Whistleblower Persecution

  • Burleson describes seeing firsthand unofficial apologies to David Grusch for his treatment by the government; calls for restitution for whistleblowers who lost their pensions or clearances (130:00–131:07).

• Mysterious Deaths

  • Discusses Matthew Sullivan—a whistleblower slated to speak in a secure facility, found dead shortly before, currently the subject of a fired-up, if opaque, FBI investigation (79:10–80:56).

7. Hybrids and Genetics: The Wildest Claims

• Presidential Briefings on Hybrids

  • Burleson states he heard from credible sources that Trump was briefed on “hybrids”—with Trump joking, "You mean like Adam Schiff?" when told nonhuman hybrids lived among us.

  "I don't know if it's fiction or not, but it was that Trump was, was during that briefing, he was told that there are hybrids...and that Trump's response was, 'You mean like Adam Schiff?'" (113:33–114:02)

• Congressional Testimony Moments

  • Lauren Boebert and Matt Gaetz have asked officials about hybrid breeding programs, non-human genetic manipulation, and related rumors. Burleson is skeptical but catalogs the claims for further investigation (44:02–45:28).

• Biologists on UAP Task Forces

  • Notes recent appointments of genetics and biology experts to official UAP advisory panels:

  "If they're, if they feel the need to…have people on the team that do that, that means that there may be something that they know that they're gonna have to research." (43:58–44:09)

8. Religious and Metaphysical Overlays

• Theological Engagement
  • Burleson deconstructs the “Collins Elite” narrative (fundamentalist Christians in government who see all UAP as demonic) and argues for more nuanced, open theological inquiry.

  "If you believe what we're experiencing are beings described spiritually as either angels or demons or whatever...most of the time people are getting a message or conversation, it's not from a fallen angel; it's from a messenger from God." (99:39–100:42)

  • Believes the Christian worldview isn’t threatened by UAP disclosure—in fact, it could expand it to a “galactic scale.”

9. Where Does Disclosure Go from Here?

• A ‘Magic Moment’ in History

  • Burleson is optimistic about unprecedented progress:

  "Trump is the Disclosure president…he finally issued this, directed to release the UFO files. We are in a historic moment." (126:58–128:26)

  • Cites Congress’ role—himself, Luna, Burchett—as essential “team” pushing for openness.
  • Notes Stephen Miller now helms a key White House UFO task force (Trump's direct assignment).

• Calls for Abolishing NDAs & Restoring Whistleblowers

  • Affirms support for presidential action to nullify NDAs on the UAP topic, freeing up critical witnesses like Grusch and others to speak publicly.

• Cautious Realism

  • Assigns “maybe 10% chance” that the US truly possesses craft or alien bodies in hangars but insists investigation is warranted because of the enormous stakes. (131:17–131:29)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "If we discover that our government has held onto anti gravitic information from the scientific community, I'm going to be really pissed." — Congressman Eric Burleson (00:00, repeated at 10:58)
• "I have more confidence in your research abilities than most of the people that are working for the government." — Burleson, complimenting Jesse on his investigative work. (04:01)
• "I would like a full briefing, the same White House level briefing that the President gets on this topic...I want to go to all these sites...Pax River, Whiteman Air Force Base, Area 51, S4, all of that stuff." — Burleson on his push for transparency. (31:23)
• "They brought me in and they told me about the event that happened in the western United States...they actually personally encountered these UAP...what they interact with are basically glowing orbs...what's described as like a ball of plasma." — Burleson recounting his intelligence briefing about a major UAP encounter. (53:19–54:25)
• "I do believe [Trump has] been briefed. There's a funny anecdotal story...he was told during that briefing that there are hybrids…and Trump's response was, 'You mean like Adam Schiff?'" — The Trump/‘hybrids’ story. (113:33–114:02)
• "I just think that you shouldn't categorize it all for sure one thing, unless you absolutely, definitively know." — On evaluating angels/demons/aliens hypotheses. (102:41)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:00 / 10:58 — Opening: Burleson on government hiding "anti gravitic" tech.
• 13:00–15:50 — The fates of Amy Eskridge and Ning Li; the mystery of missing scientists.
• 16:00–18:44 — MITRE, Aerospace Corp, FFRDCs, and the blueprint for institutional secrecy.
• 21:00–22:13 — Discovery of classified MIT Lincoln Lab audio briefings (1952).
• 23:09–24:23 — FBI inquiries into Brazilian UFO incidents.
• 35:00–36:54 — Meeting with Salvatore Pais at Pax River; discussions about Navy patents for exotic physics.
• 44:02–45:28 — Public rumors and congressional questions about hybrid breeding programs.
• 48:55–51:30 — Burleson attempts "calling in" a UFO with Chris Bledsoe (and fails).
• 53:19–56:27 — Classified UAP encounter in western US: orbs encounter, intelligence community prioritizes UAPs.
• 57:18–58:45 — Sentient plasma, 'plasmoids,' and the taxonomy problem.
• 79:10–80:56 — Matthew Sullivan’s sudden death, FBI investigation, and whistleblower risks.
• 99:39–102:41 — Deconstructing the “all demons” explanation, biblical frameworks for non-human intelligences.
• 113:33–114:02 — Trump’s alleged response when briefed about hybrids (“You mean like Adam Schiff?”).
• 126:58–128:26 — Burleson summarizes the unique convergence of government transparency, courageous whistleblowers, and public demand that makes now a “magic moment” for disclosure.

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Takeaways for Newcomers

• The UAP (UFO) topic has shifted from fringe to near-mainstream, with credible officials openly investigating and discussing incidents (including physical craft, "sentient plasma," possible hybridization experiments, and much more).
• The investigative architecture is shifting from the military and CIA toward private, quasi-governmental institutions, making oversight extremely difficult.
• Burleson and allies are pushing hard for presidential action to nullify NDAs and restore privileges for wronged whistleblowers.
• Many wild claims circulate (hybrids, secret breeding programs, interdimensional life forms)—Burleson emphasizes healthy skepticism and the critical need for evidence while not outright dismissing anything.
• The process of “disclosure” is real, ongoing, and now at a historic crossroads, but progress is impeded by secrecy, bureaucracy, and possibly intentional obfuscation even at the highest levels.

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Final Thoughts

Congressman Burleson embodies a rare mix of skepticism, investigative rigor, openness to the wildest possibilities, and a deep commitment to transparency. Whether analyzing 1950s audio reels, grilling secretive contractors, hearing confessions from generals and “download experiencers,” or strategizing with the White House, he stands as a key player in what may be a once-in-a-century period of revelation on the UFO/UAP phenomenon.

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"Right now anybody that says they have all the answers clearly is, doesn’t." (104:59 — Burleson)

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Transcript

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

If we discover that our government has held onto anti gravitic information from the scientific community, I'm going to be really pissed.

[Jesse]

Congressman Eric Burleson. Missouri Congressman Eric Burleson. Eric Burleson, what's going on here?

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

MIT Lincoln Labs. We found out that there was a reel to reel audio file where you have a senior official with the Department of Defense briefing scientists at MIT about saucers.

[Jesse]

Whoa.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

There is reportedly an object that is not in this country that is so large it cannot be moved.

[Jesse]

What's the craziest thing that's ever been told to you? You can leave the person totally anonymous.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

This thing was blacker than black sphere that was floating and it just gave this sense of just complete evil and dark. So they brought me in and they told me about the event that happened in the western United States. They actually personally encountered these uap. So they jump in the helicopter, they go to the location and what they interact with are basically glowing orbs. They are some type of spherical nebulous, what's described as like a ball of plasma.

[Jesse]

Neil McCaslin is a general who is extremely high up. He went super mysteriously missing.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Yeah, we were definitely making inquiries, trying to set up something to talk to him. Whether there's a body in the desert. They need to go find a body, find the body. I would like a full briefing, the same White House level briefing that the President gets on this topic. I want to be able to go to all these sites that we keep hearing about. Pax River, Whiteman Air Force Base. I'm going to go to Area 51, Cream Lake, S4, all of that stuff.

[Jesse]

What do you think President Trump knows about UFO? UFOs?

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

I do believe he's been briefed and that during that briefing he was told that there are hybrids. Trump's response was, you mean like Adam Schiff?

[Jesse]

How is this possible? Nothing too unusual about that. Their existence cannot longer be denied. All right, well, a lot of the audience might be wondering why I'm wearing a collared shirt, which is not a normal thing for me on this show. It's because I'm with a congressman, one of my favorite congressmen. Although you're from Missouri. No, I mean it, you're. You seem like an angel amongst devils. A rare, you know, Diogenes would go around looking for an honest man, you know, in classical Greece, and, you know, he wouldn't find anyone. And I think you're a rare salt of the earth honest man. And I think that's easy to pick up from your interviews. I think the vibe you give off is very. Just earnest and well intentioned and that is the least commoditized thing in Congress and in the world right now. So I appreciate you being here.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

It's an honor to be here. I'm a big fan of your podcast, of your show. I religiously watch, I'm a subscriber and you should know there's sometimes where I pick up, I glean some ideas and I bounce them off my staff and say, we need to look into this.

[Jesse]

Oh, that's awesome. Well, that's. That to me, that's the pinnacle. Cause we were talking a little before rolling and I'm always like, why am I, you know, sometimes the tip of the spear on certain things, at least in the open source world, on UFOs, I want people in government to be following up on a lot of these things. So it's really heartening and cool to hear. And we, you know, text occasionally and stuff too. And it's, it's epic for me to hear that, you know, people in charge who actually are important and have power are doing something about this.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Yeah, I have more confidence in your research abilities than most of the people that are working for the government. That gives you an idea.

[Jesse]

Well, I guess I'll consider myself the skinniest kid at fat camp. That's a low bar, but thank you nonetheless. I want to just give people a sense, you know, I think a lot of people have heard sound bites from you going viral on Twitter, that sort of thing. Just your kind of pre history before running for Congress. What made you want to run for Congress? What were you doing before I was

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

a. I worked in software. I was a software engineer. Built one of the very first patient portals in the country back in the early 2000s and then worked as a consultant for a company called Cerner and then later at the very end, Oracle. And so software engineer by trade, but also studied finance and, and realized if I was ever going to make any real money, I either need to own my own software company or, or go back, go into finance. And so I became a financial advisor. So boring guy from the Midwest. That's the best way of explaining it.

[Jesse]

We need more boring guys from the Midwest and in government. And then at what point did you decide to run?

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Yeah, so I would sit in my cubicle. I mean my work environment is. It was essentially the movie Office Space. I would sit in my cubicle each day and, you know, bang out code and, or lead a team of developers and I would listen to talk radio. I'd listen, I'D pay attention to what's going on in politics. And a lot of things I would listen to would be things like, you know, speeches by Milton Friedman or Thomas Sowell. And I would read their books and just. And get really frustrated with politicians because like I think I just have a very idealistic view of the way things should be and was just so frustrated the way that the swamp operated and the way that even the people that I would help get elected, they would disappoint me. And so eventually I decided if the. If, you know, I've got to do it, if I. If at least give it a shot.

[Jesse]

Yeah, I love that the way you're putting that. Yeah. Get involved. Be the kind of man in the arena. And those two people you mentioned, Milton Friedman and Thomas Sowell, have just such cutting and incisive takes that are timeless and really apply to today and really apply to the knee jerk reflexive reactions that people have around kind of the conversation, especially around government spending and some of the identity politics stuff, especially with Thomas Sowell where sometimes you gotta make hard decisions in government and no one in government wants to make the hard decisions. They always want the future generations to foot the bill. And so those two and people like Friedrich Hayek before them really outlined all of these philosophies and the conversation. There's no conversation around any of this stuff like that. Like the. I really think of Tea Party Republicans as like the last Republicans to even be fiscally conservative. Like, you know what I mean?

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Well, I'm still that and I feel like I'm part of a dwindling group in, in that realm because as you see the, the party become more populist and, and more and less laissez faire. Free laissez faire. And is like, you know, hands off the government, hands off approach to the market. Yeah, I'm truly still a free market capitalist. You know, less government, respect the rule of law. A fundamental conservative.

[Jesse]

You're on your own.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

I can't rare breed anymore.

[Jesse]

You are seriously. Okay, so. And how long have you been a congressman from Missouri?

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Three and a half years.

[Jesse]

Okay, and when did you get into UFOs?

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

When I got into Congress. So being my first moment was I just gotten elected. You try to, when you get up, when you get in Washington D.C. they try first and foremost you would think that they would put you or assign you to committees that actually fit your talent and your experience, but that is not how Washington D.C. works. It's a very broken environment. So I wasn't put on the Financial Services Committee or any of the committees that would have anything to do with healthcare or anything to do with software. I was put on oversight and transportation infrastructure. But I'm trying to carve my path, trying to find a role. And I was drinking coffee in my office one morning just by myself, and I was watching the news and I saw David Grush come on. There was something about him that I just was inspired by somebody that was bravely coming forward and saying that. In that interview, he mentioned that he wants to talk to Congress. And I have been in office for less than two months, maybe three months, and I thought, that's me. I mean, I still have that role, like, where I still have a hard time seeing myself as I'm a member of Congress. But I just kind of. I thought, wait a minute, I'm a member of Congress. I might be able to do something about this. So we reached out to the studio and was able to get a conversation with David, like, the next week.

[Jesse]

Wild. That's awesome. So something about him kind of resonated. He seemed like just another honest, you know, And I think that is the vibe with him too. He's really this kind of team player. Most of the colleagues kind of in his background, even working with him in kind of conventional roles, viewed him as, you know, just very good at what he did. And then all of a sudden, he's coming out. And I think it was a watershed moment for this UFO topic too, because it was lot of quacky people before him.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

It was.

[Jesse]

There was. There were some notable exceptions. I think Bob Lazar is actually really awesome and a cool guy, and he was. A lot of these people were saying things that just felt so beyond the pale. But Grush is really like. You look at him and you're like, he, you know, could be like a relative or something. Like, he's just a normal dude. Yeah, yeah. And he's saying some pretty remarkable things.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

He was. And so I thought this is worth getting, you know, he. Him coming forward bravely and saying the things that he was saying. And just there's a part of me that really abhors and hates a government that thinks that has the arrogance to think that shouldn't tell its people what's really going on. And that. That probably is somewhere in my ID of that. That drives me crazy and probably is what's driving me in this whole topic,

[Jesse]

especially when it comes to the nature of reality. Like, they really shouldn't have Monopoly over that. You know, it's like some sort of little tactical trade Secret warfare advantage, you know, in the nuclear program. Okay. I'm pro keeping that classified.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Right.

[Jesse]

When it comes to this sort of stuff, like, you know, we're not alone or you know, maybe there's something off with our physics that like academics should be teaching, like that seems pretty fundamental.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

It does. Like to me the. If somebody's. As I was sitting on a plane on a tarmac once for three hours sweating and not able to move because of an air traffic control situation, the thought came across to me that if we discover that our government has held onto anti gravitic information from the scientific community, I'm going to be really pissed.

[Jesse]

Yeah, you should be. And you know, as somebody who, you know, I've gone pretty deep on the anti gravity stuff. I think they are, I really do. I think they are. I think, you know, I always bring up this guy, Thomas Townsend Brown. You know, I think I made really real world updates in the world of gravity. There's an FBI document from the 40s on him that says he is the lead radar scientist in the entire Navy. Knows more about radar than anyone in the Navy. And then now I think we have pretty good evidence that his work made it into the B2 stealth bomber. So you have two out of the three things that people used to deny that are now kind of hard to deny. And then the number three thing is like he's talking about merging electromagnetism and gravity in some way in this form of electrogravitics. I don't think he's lying.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

I, I think it's interesting that people haven't really done a whole lot of deep diving into his research.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Or, or the other thing that's interesting is you have these other scientists that went missing that were doing it. You had Amy Eskridge.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Who went missing and. Or who. I'm sorry, she committed suicide. Supposedly.

[Jesse]

Committed suicide. Yeah. Or yeah, commit suicide. But claimed that she was. People were going after her at the end with directed energy showing burns on her hands. At the end of her life, I

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

found out that I was being physically surveilled. There's this weird fucking Lexus and it has tinted windows that are not street legal. My hands have been burned to hell and back as I've been typing because you can beam me through there or through there.

[Jesse]

And her father was a NASA scientist who was interested in gravity modification. His name was Richard Eskridge. So strange.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

It is really strange. Her story is heartbreaking whenever you see the interviews and she was really calling for help. As far as feeling threatened Feeling like people were coming after her, that she needs. She felt like she needed to come forward with what she knew quickly. And then you had the weird case of, I think the other woman was Ling Li.

[Jesse]

Ling Li, yeah, yeah.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

And who just kind of dropped off the map for a period of a few years, and then suddenly there was an obituary.

[Jesse]

That's right. And this is going to come full circle because Ning Li, really interesting case where she was using solid state superconductors, rotating them really fast. And she basically said they emitted these gravitons that engaged in gravitational shielding. And so you would get weight reduction for anything above the superconductor, which you shouldn't get weight. Weight reduction. You know, the thing shouldn't lose weight. That. That means gravity is being modified somehow. It's really kind of crazy. And then she starts a company, it's literally called Anti Gravity llc.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

And people invest with her too. Like, her colleagues apparently believed in it enough that they were putting their own money behind.

[Jesse]

They're all putting their money behind it. And her, she's at University of Alabama, Huntsville, and the chair of her physics department is a guy named Larry Smalley. And he's so convinced that the thing works that he leaves his job to work for her. So then you have all these people being like, oh, it's fake. She wasn't doing that. She didn't, you know, actually get any sort of effect. And that's obviously bs. And so. And then she tragically gets hit by a car and dies of dementia years later. But she really went silent in that first period when she gets that contract for her. For her company.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Right.

[Jesse]

And the whole story is very strange. And this is going to come full circle because you now are investigating Mitre Corporation as possibly being involved with UFOs. The last time Ning Lee really spoke in a public way on record about her anti gravity work was at a MITRE conference. I don't know if you're aware of this.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Yeah, I met her and I did sit down and I interviewed her. And this was at a conference in 2003, just outside of Washington, D.C. run by them, overseen by the Mitre Corporation. And it was looking at, I think, high frequency gravitational waves. She chaired one of the sessions. I talked to her afterwards about it all. And then I don't know, sort of how soon after that it was that she sort of went off grid. Certainly probably about within. Within a year that she just disappeared. I didn't know that it was that conference.

[Jesse]

Yes. Yeah. And they used to convene all Sorts of scientists on exotic science and stuff. And it felt very like, you know, maybe a limited hangout or something, see what people know and.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Yeah, that's, that is interesting to know. I did not know that.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Something that we could, we should probably look into.

[Jesse]

I think so. Well, they're, so they're a federally funded research and development center, as you know, which is technically a nonprofit. They're kind of exempt from a lot of the oversight and scrutiny that, you know, normal government institutions would be. And they keep coming up when it comes to UFO lore, UFO oversight. Do you think they have something maybe to do with the UFO legacy program?

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

I think that there's enough, there's enough rhetoric and enough speculation that it warrants us deep diving into mitre. I think we're, if you, if you see my work lately, we're really trying to take a deep dive into these FFRDCs because they, it seems like, and honestly, historically, when you look back at their formation, they all kind of were, were stood up around the, just after the Manhattan Project. Right. So you have the Manhattan Project, that information gets leaked. Russia suddenly now has the information of how to build a nuclear bomb. And I think that our federal government learned, learned from those lessons and decided we're going to go about this a different way. So they spun up all these, these, you know, quasi private entities that, I mean, so an ffrdc, really, their only, their only client is the federal government.

[Jesse]

Yep.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

But yet they get the benefit of acting like they're a private business.

[Jesse]

And you, it's really like, you know, I think the, the cowboy intelligence world which existed in the 40s and 50s, I think still exists in whispers in these FFRDCs because it's these guys who, you know, if you're GS15 in the government, you're not getting paid as much as you want. You probably have some restrictions on what you can and can't do. These guys in these FFRDCs, they're subject matter experts. They can get paid a whole lot. They can dual hat as all sorts of things. They can consult for NASA, nro, you know, I'll do all these things at once. And, and then, yeah, it seems like the perfect sort of COVID for, for UFO activities. And specifically you have Aerospace Corporation constantly coming up in the UFO conversation. I believe there was even a WikiLeaks email between John Podesta and an IT contractor there about Fast Walkers. And so, you know, and they, they always come. And I know Eric Davis, of course, worked for Aerospace Corporation and then the Institute for Defense Analysis was An FFRDC back in the day. And Harold Malmgren was there and he even said on record that was a not official cover for like what I was actually doing for the National Security Council.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

So it feels like just this place you work at, that's an excuse to kind of do a bunch of other stuff and possibly UFO related as well.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Yeah. And so we, we actually sent a letter early on to Aerospace Corp and the Oversight committee from our role, from my role to be able to get them to come in and answer some questions. And they actually responded and they sent someone, two people from their executive team. But of course they knew nothing. They absolutely. So we got them in a skiff. They have no idea of any kind of UFOs or reverse engineering or anything like that. So that was the beginning with, that was under the Biden administration that we had that interview. I think we're probably going to reach out to them again with more specific detailed questions because I think a lot of these government entities, even like the agency, like the CIA, I think that all of these programs, a lot of times these people are coming in, they're temporary workers. They come into the role, maybe they do enough deep digging to find out what did the person in my role do decades ago. But let me ask. Most people in any other job don't really do that. They don't look back and say what did the person in my role do decades and decades ago? So I think that we're in a time in which it has been really, if it's true, that information has been so pulled in and compartmentalized that a lot of the people that are now in those roles, unless they really do some digging, are not going to find it. So I think that's why we have to crowdsource it. We have to do the work of getting the details and then giving it to these people who are in a position of authority and saying no, you need to go look for a file that's called xyz dated this date. Right. That contains this. And that's where you're seeing my office is putting out a lot of these interrogative letters to mitre, to Aerospace Corp, to MIT Lincoln Labs.

[Jesse]

Any specific examples of what you're asking for from any of these organizations?

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Yeah, so MIT Lincoln Labs, we found out that there was a reel to reel audio file from way back in the 40s. I'm sorry. No, I'm sorry. It's like 1952 where you have a, a senior official with the Department of Defense briefing scientists at MIT about this, about saucers.

[Jesse]

Whoa.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Right. And so we, we found out that, that we got word that there was an audio file that existed, maybe even more documentation. So we sent an interrogative directly demanding that that be retained and that we get access to that audio. And that is currently they responded that they did have that and that they are now processing it for us to be able to at least listen to it as skiff. And my hope is to get it disclosed.

[Jesse]

Whoa. So that was classified. And you had this senior DOD official in 1952, presumably around the, you know, D.C. flyover, maybe, I don't know, in July.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

It is exactly.

[Jesse]

Wow. Where, you know, you had saucers on the White House lawn was the sort of, you know, headline, newspaper headline. That's fascinating. Well, I can't wait to see what comes of that. Do you think you're hopeful that that will get declassified?

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

I am. I think that the fact that they've admitted that it does exist is. It is now. Okay, now we know it's there, so let's get it.

[Jesse]

Any other examples of specific things you're querying?

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

So when the, after the Varhinha case, when those individuals Brazil came over, I was, you know, I was there with the, with James Fox and, and Leslie, Leslie Keane. And we were hearing from these individuals. After the meeting, I, I ran into some of the folks from the FBI that are actually very much looking, want to look into this. And they said, sir, if you want us to look into this, if you'll write a letter, we'd be happy to, to jump on this. And so we wrote a letter very specifically asking for details of that. And it, and, and that's something that the FBI can look and sink their teeth into. Right. If the reports are accurate, that means that there's flight records, that means that there's some documents that they can actually go after.

[Jesse]

Yeah, well, there was, you know, I know James Fox did this event in D.C. with, you know, three of the key witnesses from the Barginia event. And I know you were kind of a co sponsor of the event. You were there.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

The truth is, if there's any government that's holding information about the knowledge of whether or not we are alone or not alone in the universe, that is not for any government, no matter how powerful it is to withhold from the rest of humanity. Yeah, it was the Roswell of Brazil event. So many eyewitnesses. And so it gives us an opportunity to try to get that information. The fact that Brazil is, you know, reaching out and saying that they want to cooperate with the United States. They want to, you know, come alongside us and be open and transparent as well. I think it's good, it's good that the United States is leading this because I'm seeing other nations come forward and reach out to our office. I've had meetings with people from Japan. I just recently, yesterday or the day before, had a meeting with two people, members of Parliament from Canada. And so there are other nations that are seeing the work that the United States is demonstrating and hopefully that encourages them to also come forward.

[Jesse]

Yeah, yeah. I just got back from Brazil, actually, where I interviewed a current presidential candidate and former Defense minister, Aldo Rebelo. And he was basically like, yeah, I have no reason to doubt that. You know, I think Virginia happened. You said that fundamentally you do think something happened in Virginia in 1996. Believing that a phenomenon like this exists. Of course, because these were phenomena that had the testimony of totally credible witnesses. And it was actually kind of interesting. My kind of ex post analysis on the whole thing is he said, I asked him, I was like, when you were Defense Minister, did you see anything specifically around Virginia Calaris? You know, these are things that obviously I think there's so much overwhelming evidence in the open source world that you actually have to be dogmatic and unreasonable not to to say that nothing happened. Right. So that's what he was saying essentially in the interview is like, yeah, like I don't have access to classified info necessarily about this, but, you know, I think this happened. I think you have to be unreasonable to say that it didn't happen. But then it was interesting. We got James Fox, you know, this amazing documentarian who's documented the Virginia case more than anybody in his movie Moment of Contact. We got him on the phone and he's talking to Aldo and he's asking about the body being transported back and forth to the US and the US involvement. And Rebelo goes, well, I can't say anything that's classified.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

We have pretty good testimony from a number of witnesses on the Brazilian side that the entities, the ET went back to America.

[Jesse]

But we don't know what happened to the craft itself as here, any rulers

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

of where the craft went, the information

[Jesse]

that's held by the Ministry of Defense is strictly classified. So I felt like there's a little bit of a tell that like, you know, and I, I don't knock the guy at all. And you know, I think, I think it would be very bad for him if he were to reveal anything classified. So, you know, I'm not blaming him I think, I think the fact that he made the statements he did is fantastic. But I think he knew more than met the eye was my takeaway.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Yeah, but those very specific, you know, incidents are things that we can really, really get into. Yeah, really, kind of. I think it's. I'm done kind of sending these broad letters. That's what, that's why the, the meeting with Aerospace Corp. Was such a nothing burger. So we, I think that if we can give them very specific details and then, then you can find people that, I think a lot of them actually will be surprised when they go digging and they actually find it.

[Jesse]

Can I send you a request for something with.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Absolutely.

[Jesse]

So with Aerospace Corp. I don't know if you're familiar with this book, American Cosmic. Have you heard of this?

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

No.

[Jesse]

It's an amazing book. It's by a religious studies professor who actually wrote about Catholicism before she got into UFOs. She wrote a book about purgatory. And then she started to look into kind of experience, divine experiences from brothers, nuns and saints of the Catholic Church and things like Saint Francis of Assisi seeing sort of the flaming torch on the mountain in Mount Laverne, Italy. And she was like, whoa. A lot of these actually look like, you know, what John Mack, the Harvard psychiatrist is looking into with modern abductions in the 90s. And she ends up going down this rabbit hole and she meets this guy who's since been outed, not in her book, but by other people. And his name is Tim Taylor and he is at Aerospace Corporation, but he's a NASA mission controller. So he's kind of one of these sort of dual hatted guys. And he tells her openly, I'm part of a secret space program. He actually takes her and Stanford professor Gary Nolan to a crash site where they look at material.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Oh, that's where Gary got that material. Yeah, that's right.

[Jesse]

Yeah, exactly. This like frog skin material. Gary also gets material that he studies from Jacques Vallee and stuff. But yeah, so really fascinating guy. And he's claiming that he works like in kind of adjusting timelines, which sounds nuts, but if you watch Disclosure Day and maybe they're hiding truth in fiction, it's. That's kind of what the movie's about. And it just seems like this fascinating guy and I think he was in touch with certain members of the uap, atf, which is obviously responsible for a lot of modern disclosure, you know. So, yeah, it's, it's interesting. Like, I think I'd love to know if. Can you get him to come out and maybe come on the show or, you know, make a statement or something.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Yeah. Give me the details and we'll be happy to.

[Jesse]

Okay.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Get our team on it.

[Jesse]

We can. We can follow up. Yeah, yeah, he's. He seems like a fascinating guy. You've had some really interesting experiences where you've. And this was kind of an interesting moment in the weaponized podcast you did where Jeremy kind of pressed and was like, you went to Pax River. And you're like, well, that's not on record yet, guys.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

I. I can't really. I have not publicly said that. That. That I've taken the trip to Pax river at this time. And so. Okay.

[Jesse]

Can you say anything more about that?

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

I mean, it's now pretty much out there that I did go to Pax River. That was.

[Jesse]

What is Pax river for the audience?

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

I mean, it's short for Patuxent River. It's a. It's a. It's basically the Navy's base that they do experimentation. It's kind of their research where they test their aircraft. And so it was a short drive, per se. It was at least just a drive. We didn't have to fly there from D.C. so this all came from a request that I had made from the White House. And I could tell you that story if you're interested, but that's probably one of the more. It goes back to a vote that was happening, the one big beautiful bill, or the Working Families Tax Cut act, whatever you want to call it. The day of that vote, we were kind of, you know, as a fiscal conservative, someone who's really cares about the debt and the deficit, I was worried about how. How we might impact that with. With extending these tax cuts. And so I was fighting for every kind of pay forward that I could think, cost cutting measures that I could get to in order to pay for these tax cuts. So it was a long day of negotiations. I mean, a long, long day to the point where we were negotiating until 2:00am Whoa. And to this day, Trump calls our group like the 3am caucus. Not exactly in a lovingly way.

[Jesse]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Because. But at the end of the day, look, I didn't go up there to make everybody in D.C. happy. I went up there to try to save the country.

[Jesse]

That's awesome. Yeah.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

But in the course of that really long day, the. The White House staff, which I don't readily have access to, were there. And I said in. In a moment of downtime, I said, hey, you know, while I got you Can I ask you some questions? And I, and, and I said, we, we're getting nowhere in oversight. We're, we've, we're asked to investigate this topic of UF, UFOs and UAPs, and we're getting really nowhere. Everywhere we go, we're, we're getting, you know, we're hitting a dead end. We're not able to have enough authority to get any information. And he said, well, what do you want? And I said, this has nothing to do with my vote, how I will vote on this bill. I just, while you're here, I want to vent at you. And he said, well, then what would you like? And I said, well, if you're asking, I'd like a full briefing, the same White House level briefing that the President gets on this topic. I want to be able to go to all these sites that we keep hearing about. And he said, I mean, he said, which locations? And I started with Pax river, you know, Whiteman Air Force Base. I want to go to, I want to go to Area 51, Cream Lake, S4, all of that stuff.

[Jesse]

Have you been to all those places?

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

No. No. And so the first location that was kind of a low hanging fruit was Pax River.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

But in general, so I, I made that request. The guy that I made the request to, you know, White House staffer was grinning. And at that point, you know, this, there's still a stigma. There's still. And I thought, oh, he's making fun of me, like, and, and I said, you know, why are you grinning? I mean, I'm sorry if this is, if you think this is funny. He said, no. He said, I want to go with you. This is awesome.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

And so he took that request back. And a week later, a liaison from the Department of Defense, now the Department of War, was in my office saying that he was told from the White House to make it happen.

[Jesse]

Wow.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

And so to me, that was remarkable if you think about it. Barry Goldwater asked to go look at some of this stuff when he was Senator and was turned down.

[Jesse]

Yeah, he's. In fact, he specifically said he asked Curtis LeMay to see the blue room at Wright pat. And Curtis LeMay cussed him out of the room.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

I called Curtis LeMay and I said,

[Jesse]

general, I know we have a room at Wright Patterson where you put all this secret stuff. Can I go in there?

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

I've never heard him get mad, but

[Jesse]

he got mad and held me, cussed me out, said, don't ever ask me that question again.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

So I, I'm you know, we're having to work out the logistics, but that's my request, is to see that. And I'm going to keep pounding at the administration and using whatever points of leverage that I can to get to get in that room.

[Jesse]

And did you see a UFO there? Like a saucer and a hangar sort of thing?

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

No. But if anything, what I was able to confirm is that some of the narrative that has been around what Pax river, its role in the UFO or uap, like history. I was able to actually be on site and see the facility that would have been that facility that they were going to transfer from Lockheed Martin to Bigelow airspace. And if, and I'll tell you, just being there and seeing it, if you were ever going to do a transfer, it would be logistically the perfect venue to do that.

[Jesse]

And did you see anything exotic where you're like, what is that? I don't know what that is.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

I didn't see anything wildly exotic, but I saw some really cool stuff.

[Jesse]

Okay.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Our government's doing some really cool things.

[Jesse]

Do you say anything more? Okay, fair enough. You know, Pax river is really interesting because in 2018, there's a Navy scientist named Salvatore Pais.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

I met Salvatore Pais there.

[Jesse]

That's cool. So he's amazing because. Well, he, these patents, these Navy patents involve inertial mass reduction, high frequency gravitational waves.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Yes.

[Jesse]

And piezoelectric superconductors, room temperature superconductors, basically all the things that you would need to make a UFO fly.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Right.

[Jesse]

The creme de la creme of exotic physics.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Yes.

[Jesse]

Fascinating.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Okay, so that's a part of the story. When we, when I made that request, they, once they greenlit that venue, we were very specific and saying, we want to see this location. And then I said, I want to, I want to talk with Salvatore Pais. And, and so I was surprised that they made that happen. We were able to have a meeting with him and most of the people there, you could tell, they do not, they, they didn't have a clue what, what I was going to ask. We started, we started talking about his patents going down the list of the patents, asking, you know, have you, have you guys, you know, have there been actually, have these been put into any test form? And they admitted that one of them, that they did, I believe it's the anti gravitic one, but they weren't able to have any definitive results. Now Salvatore Pae says that that was not built to his specifications, which means, I'm not putting words in his mouth, but I Picked up that had they built it exactly the way that he had designed it, they probably would have had a more definitive result.

[Jesse]

Whoa.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

But because it wasn't definitive, they apparently didn't move on with it. That's. That's what they said.

[Jesse]

Apparently he got kind of messed with, too.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Yeah. It also seems like they have. They've put him in a. They've kind of put him in a different role. And. And he seems very scared to talk to anybody.

[Jesse]

Every time I communicate with him, it's very cloak and dagger. You know, it's. And it's. He's. He's often feel. Feels kind of a. Like, it's like a fearful vibe.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

And there was even a moment I interviewed him, and our. Like, it was really hard to get the interview we did in some, like, you know, janky motel near Pax river. And one of the cameras broke down and the audio sucked. But I got to a certain level of the science where he freaked out and he goes, jesse, stop right there. Like, just stop asking. I know you're curious, but, like. And I was like, okay. And I kind of stood down. Let's get a. So as you hit the Schwinger limit, break space, time. What happens vis a vis this fifth dimension? Will not.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Okay. Will not touch on that.

[Jesse]

Leave it there, Jesse. Trust me on that. Leave it there.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

We nerded out about the science a little bit, and I'm just like a hobbyist on trying to understand quantum physics and that kind of stuff. But I could tell that the only person in the room that was tracking with. With Dr. Pyce was Dr. Kozlowski, John Kozlowski, who was there. And so he was tracking. I was barely keeping up. Most of everybody else that was in that room walked out of there not understanding anything that we were talking about.

[Jesse]

Interesting. Yeah. Well, that's cool that you have the instincts to know that Kozlowski at least is tracking, you know, the content. What do you think of him? So he's the new for. For context, for people. The All Domain Anomalies Resolution Office is kind of the modern Project Blue Book. I'm not even saying that necessarily as, you know, with the connotation of Project Blue Book, but it's the official Pentagon investigation program. It does have Arrow. Has a bad connotation or a bad. Gets a bad rap because of this guy Sean Kirkpatrick, who just completely dismissed all cases. In certain cases, he seemed like a bad actor. And, like, he seemed like he was gathering info just to destroy it or something or not do anything with it. But what do you think about. John Kozlowski is the new director? What do you think of him?

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Yeah, he's a breath of fresh air compared to Sean.

[Jesse]

Okay.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

And I don't have anything against Sean, personally. I just. I was. You know, when you're a member of Congress and you're going into a SCIF and they're giving a long presentation, and it feels like it's taking forever to get to the actual nuts and bolts of what they're there for, and then once they actually start presenting, it was literally a slideshow of. We looked into this, and this was a debt. Like, here's what it was, Right. This was a balloon. This is a flock of birds. This is a tent across the horizon. And. And at some point, you realize they're not going to show you anything that they haven't definitively. Like, determined is not.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Does it make sense?

[Jesse]

It makes total sense. I. I even think it's funny to go back and look at the Condon Committee reports, which, you know, ended up saying Blue Book was a waste of time. The Air Force project with J. Allen Hynek, where they were looking at UFOs, and if you look at that report, you actually look at the substance. Over 30% of cases were totally still unidentified. Same thing with Arrow. So Kirkpatrick will come out and say, you know, we never found any evidence of extraterrestrials. Well, first of all, extraterrestrials is an analytical overlay. It's a conclusion. It doesn't mean you've found things that are really anomalous and worthy of further inquiry. So, like, the language is, like, kind of manipulated in a very specific sort of way. And then second of all, if you actually look at the data again, I think it's over 25%. Definitely over 25%. Maybe over 30% in Arrow's case, I think might be like 34% of cases are still unidentified.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

I'm not sure about that percentage, but definitely when we pushed them on it and said, how many of these. How many? Instead of showing us the ones that you have, you know, eliminated, why don't you show us the ones that you're still researching and that you haven't figured out yet. The mysterious ones and that we. We. That was not something that Sean was going to do. And so it wasn't until John came in that we were able to actually get that. Get that request completed.

[Jesse]

Yeah. I mean, this stuff that's truly, clearly of a variety and interesting and worthy of further investigation. Is the kind of nuclear connection stuff. And like, you have all these guys. You have a great book by Robert Hastings called UFOs and nukes. He's a meticulous, very not fantastical, flowery research. He doesn't jump to any sort of conclusions. And you have all these guys, almost 170 of them coming out and they have, you know, they're very often cleared to things and they're on what's called the PRP program, where they have to report if they're taking, you know, any sort of medication because they're around our nukes and they're all saying that our nuclear missiles are getting shut down and tampered with and they're flyovers and, and they're not lying. And then we have to have some sensor data along with that. And like, what is Kirkpatrick doing? And then you find out that Kirkpatrick worked with Oak Ridge and he won a Brookhaven National Labs award at the age of 17. And it's like, oh, you might be just compromised. You might be on the payroll of the national labs and these nuclear programs. That data set is obviously an important data set to look into. And you can, I don't know. I'm about to have Michael Shermer on who's part of this UAP White House Advisory panel, and he's a skeptic, and I'm going to debate him. And I don't think the skeptics have anything to say about that data set. I don't think Neil DeGrasse Tyson can say anything about that. I mean, it's clearly interesting.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

It is. And I'm interested to see how this new UAP group is formed and, and what they're. How, how they're going to function. I've had. Then you have this scientific advisory group that Avi Loeb is leading.

[Jesse]

Yeah. What do you think of that whole thing?

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

I. I was hoping that there would be some more advanced, like theoretical physicists. Yeah, I think having some people that are like, studying particle physics would be, would be helpful. Yeah, on that. But I'm sure that they're still fleshing it out, hopefully that hopefully they'll add some more talent to that group. I think what's really interesting is they've added some people that are like biologists or people that are studying gene genetics. That's fascinating.

[Jesse]

Yeah. What are you trying to say? Why. Why is that a relevant, you know,

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

I mean, if they're, if they feel the need to like to have people on the team that, that do that, that means that there may be something that they know that they're gonna have to research.

[Jesse]

Yeah, I'm saying, what are, what are they trying to say by, you know, appointing those people with those sorts of specialties? And you had, I think you had Lauren Boebert, you know, another congressman to ask about, like, hybrids. Do you remember this?

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

I don't remember when she asked about it, but I'm sure she did.

[Jesse]

She asked about hybrids. And it was just a really weird moment in the congressional testimony. There are rumors that have come up to the Hill of a secretive project within the Department of Defense involving the manipulation of human genetics with what is described as non human genetic material, potentially for the enhancement of human capabilities. Hybrids. Are any of you familiar with that?

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Yes or no?

[Jesse]

No, ma', am.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

I am not, ma'.

[Jesse]

Am.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

I'm not. No, ma'.

[Jesse]

Am. And I think, I think Matt Gates has made a couple of statements to this.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

He did. He absolutely did. He said that there was a, some of a military brass person, he didn't describe their rank or anything, but that that came into his office and told him about, about hybrids. I had someone come and brief me who was in a military uniform, worked for the United States army, that was briefing me on the locations of hybrid

[Jesse]

breeding programs where captured aliens were breeding

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

with humans to create some hybrid race

[Jesse]

that could engage in intergalactic communication. How do we parse any of this stuff? I mean, you have, you know, Tim Burchette, you know, from Tennessee as well, saying that we have, have five hot spots and, you know, under the oceans we have a higher propensity of sightings

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

around these five or six, I believe,

[Jesse]

deep area, deep water areas.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Yeah, and he's.

[Jesse]

Of course, I want to be clear, Tim Burchette was told this, and that's what he's saying. He was told this. But like, it seems like there are a bunch of guys running around talking to congressmen like yourselves and saying these really wild things. And then the congressmen are, you know, they're just relaying what was said to them. But you, you end up with this sort of like everything is everything, like what's, what's going on.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

So I try to be really cautious whenever I'm being asked about things and, and, and say this is only. I don't necessarily believe this. I don't have any evidence of this, but this is what was told to me.

[Jesse]

Yes, you always do that.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

And, and it's, and you have to do that because there's some really crazy things that are said and oftentimes when those People are in my office. I. I will jump to, okay, where are the receipts? Like what, what evidence do you have? Do you have any, you know, anything whatsoever?

[Jesse]

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[Congressman Eric Burleson]

I don't want to insult people.

[Jesse]

Okay. Yeah, that's fair. When I say crazy, I mean, like, wild. As far as its impact, I think that the.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

When we get into the whole discussion about people using consciousness to like, call in UAPs or to communicate. When I talk to people that are saying that they're. That they receive a download or they receive messages mentally. Look, I don't. I don't say that these people are complete liars. And I think it. Most of the people that are talking to me absolutely believe what they're saying. I just have not oftentimes they're lacking the evidence, the proof.

[Jesse]

Have you ever said, well, why don't you take me out to the field and we'll call something in? Or something.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

I did.

[Jesse]

You did do that?

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

I did.

[Jesse]

And what happened?

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

So one night there was a group and I think it was like right after a hearing or something like that, there was a group that people that were all texting me. I mean, all these, all these people that I've made contact with within the UAP community, they were all texting me, hey, what are you doing tonight? And finally I just said, let's meet at this restaurant. And I just sent it to all of these people. And so just put together a random group of people, and one of them was Chris Bledsoe.

[Jesse]

Okay.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

And I'd never met him before. People in the group said they explained. And he explained what? That he was able to do that. And so I. I had. I had been in a meeting with another group that Greer had brought, and I had asked the same question. So we were actually at dinner, and I'd asked that question. They said, well, this is not the best place to do that here in Washington, D.C. if you come out to this property, maybe we could make that happen. So the answer was no at that point. But when I asked Chris Bledsoe, the way I asked was, you say this, you know, this happens all the time. Where does it happen? And he said, what do you mean? I go, like, over. Over the ocean, over water? Is it. Does it have to be a lake involved? And. And he said, no, pretty much anywhere. And I said, like in the. In the country or in a city? And he said, no, pretty much anywhere. I said, what about here? What about right now? How about tonight after dinner? And he. And he agreed to do it. So we went out on the Capitol lawn and. And he did his thing. And I kind of just politely, quietly sat and waited and. And. And it was getting late into the evening, and eventually, after a while, they. It didn't. You know, nothing happened. And so I just said, guys, I'm going. I gotta get. I gotta go to bed. So, you know, I may. I don't. I'm not trying to say that to. To say anything negative about him. I'm just saying that, yeah, there have been moments where I've had that opportunity. And I said, let's do it. Let's do it right now. Now. They apparently went back to the same spot a few weeks later and did the exact same thing without me there. And. And. And then they were able to film dots in the sky that were.

[Jesse]

Whoa. So, Congressman, you're ruining it. I don't know. I'm just kidding. You're hurting the signal.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Right. And that was kind of the impression that. That they'd given me is that I was such a skeptic and a doubter that I was kind of spoiling this. The. The. Does that make. If that makes sense?

[Jesse]

Yeah, it does, but I think you gotta. You gotta be a skeptic, you know, or at least agnostic. Have you. Have you seen a UFO in the sky?

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

No.

[Jesse]

At any point in your life? Okay.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

No. I would love To.

[Jesse]

Yeah, yeah.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

So if. If you are a hybrid and you're. And you see this video, you've got one. You've got a uap, come into my office. Come. Come visit me. I'd be happy.

[Jesse]

What's the thing that you've heard in one of these kind of contexts of people hitting you up? They say they have information that is the combination of kind of the most interesting and impactful, but seemingly like maybe there's some evidence for it.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

I would say the most remarkable thing that happened was you had this transition with, you know, and I think Tulsi did a great job setting up what was called the Dig the Directors Initiative Group. And she had these teams that were investigating several things, one of them being UFOs, UAPs. And I think that that was probably one of the lower priorities of the group. But they. They were doing that research and they really didn't dedicate a lot of resources to it. They had one guy, basically, and I think he got discouraged pretty quickly, or not quickly. He actually. He really threw himself into it for a few years and then got discouraged. And then as he was transitioning out, they had brought me in and briefed me about what they had accomplished. And then a few months later, they said, sir, we need to bring you back in. They actually reached out to me and said, we would like for you to come back in and we want to brief you because things have changed. So they brought me in and they told me about the event that happened in the western United States. People from Tulsi's team were actually on site.

[Jesse]

Whoa.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

For this. It was at one of our. One of our US Military installations. They. There was people from the intelligence community there, senior intelligence officials. They actually personally encountered these uap.

[Jesse]

Whoa.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

And they gave me that in a briefing. I think I was the first elected official to get that briefing. And so I. And they said, sir, we're pretty much approached this topic the same way that you have. Very skeptical. But we feel like we have a job to go out and investigate this. And this event has completely changed everything because now we know that there is something there, we just don't know what it is. And you can read about it in the recent releases. It's kind of buried at the end.

[Jesse]

Oh, interesting.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Ironically.

[Jesse]

So what if we can talk about it now?

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Yeah, so I can talk about it now. For the longest time, I couldn't talk about it.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

But. But it's in that release. It describes, from their perspective, the intelligence people that were there. And there's two different reports I can't say which.

[Jesse]

Okay, so that was, that wasn't released.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

I think they don't want to have another area 51 where they have people like storming. Sure, yeah, yeah, the location. But it was. At the end of the day, what they have released is that pretty much what the narrative that they told me, that they, that they were out there. They were, they were there because there had been previous reports. So they were just like, they were on site. They were going around looking at any kind of debris that they saw or anything that was out in the desert. And they had landed a helicopter and they got a call that the radar had picked up several UAPs. So they jump in the helicopter, they go to the location, and what they interact with are basically glowing orbs. Those orbs that have been described, you know, whether they're called plasmoids, whatever you want to call them, they're like three meters in diameter, sometimes smaller, sometimes bigger, and they have different shades of color that they glow in. But they are some type of spherical nebulous. What's described as like a ball of plasma, what one would think a ball of plasma would look like. I don't think anybody's ever touched one to know that it's like super heated material or anything. But definitely was messing with the helicopter when it got there. They were, they were. They operated intelligently. And then at one point they. There were some F16s that were scrambled. These things appeared to like, shoot up and chase or follow the F16s. So when you're here, when I'm. Imagine you're me, you're sitting in the office of the Director of National Intelligence in a scif, and they're briefing you with firsthand, you know, accounts from people that were there. And they said, sir, this has brought this investigation from being priority number 500 and something to top 10 priorities for this government to figure out what's going on.

[Jesse]

It's fascinating. Wow. Yeah, it's. You know, Grush just did this, you know, press conference in D.C. that I know you were at, and he was asked about, like, the various types of life, you know, morphologies, the body types, that sort of thing. And he gets into this idea of sentient plasmoid life.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

How many species are you aware of? I certainly don't have the Compendium. It's a continuum from corporeal, bipedal type life to.

[Jesse]

To, you know, what I would consider as like, sentient plasmoid life.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

But there are, there are several that the US government is aware of.

[Jesse]

And you know, that does seem to be like this, this sort of recurring theme that seems to me of a different variety than like a saucer and a hangar, like whatever Bob Lazar worked on.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Right.

[Jesse]

Do you have a good. I think one of the things in this space that's like missing is like categories.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Taxonomy.

[Jesse]

The taxonomy of. Yeah. Cause it's just, just there's so much, and there's so many disparate things likely happening. Do you have a sense of that sort of taxonomy? Do you have like a map of this stuff?

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Well, certainly you hear about the different things that you often see. Whether it's the triangles or the saucers. Right. Or the, or the orbs. I'm not, I don't know that they're, they, they may be congruent with each other. For example, maybe they, you see the plasma sphere before the orb or the saucer comes through it. Maybe it's a way it, you know, breaking the normal laws of physics or what we would describe as normal, right?

[Jesse]

Yeah, maybe. Yeah, that's really interesting. It's like what Skywatcher, which was kind of feels like almost like a public facing version of what the Legacy program was doing.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

Which was like calling these things in.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

And then, and then causing them to kind of materialize. It almost feels like you're drawing this sentient plasma life form into reality. And this is again, we're in very speculative territory here, but like. Yeah, you hear things like that time and time again.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

It is wild. And the fact that what's described as those plasma lights, really, if you go back throughout history, people describe those, they seem to appear even in ancient texts, Right?

[Jesse]

Absolutely. And that is the thing that's very definitive. So. So if you look at the early history in the 40s of the US's relationship to the topic, you have Roswell, of course, you have the D.C. flyover in 47, when the federal government starts to take this seriously. You have Nathan Twining, who is a general, who was head of Air Materiel Command, responsible for all aircraft development for the Air Force. He's saying these things are neither visionary nor fictitious. And so they start to formally look into it and they create a project in the Air Force called Project Twinkler. And they have this guy, Lincoln La Paz, who's a meteor export at the University of New Mexico, and he starts to track all these fireballs, these green fireballs which are tracking the plumes of nuclear blasts after atomic tests. And they seem to be all over nuclear sites all over the country. And there are FBI documents To this effect, there are thousands of documents between, you know, 45 and 54, when you had the U2 spy plane. So it's like there's something going on and it's not our own recon craft.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Right.

[Jesse]

And they seem to be intelligently controlled.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

So they do. And that's the way that these intelligence officials described it. And it freaked them out. And to the point where they needed to ramp up their investigation. They've added more resources and more people. They've, they've, they've elevated it beyond odni. It's now a White House led operation and they're pulling in all these different agencies, whether it's Department of Energy, the CIA. This is something that they're taking very seriously. And they said, when I said in that meeting, I said, you guys saw, you saw it firsthand. Surely you have scientists that are kind of working on this. And they said, no, we don't. And I said, okay, you, yeah, you've got to have somebody, you've got to have a team. I said, do you have any idea what these things are? And they, they assured me that they have no freaking idea what these, what these plasmoid type objects are.

[Jesse]

It's so crazy. There's a, there's a, an author named Robert Temple, and he wrote a book called the New Science of Heaven. And it's amazing. It kind of reconciles metaphysics with physics, but it's specifically plasma physics. And yeah, it's fascinating. And it talks about atomic matter. You know, what. We see material in the world as the exception to the rule in the universe that really it's 99% this ambient plasma. And actually if you think about it, we have four energy states of all matter, right? You have, you know, solid liquid, gas, plasma. And it's just about the energy, you know, inserted into each thing that allows you to engage in these sort of phase transitions. So why wouldn't, if we were surrounded by ambient plasma, why wouldn't you be able to draw out any of that plasma back into the material world? And you can literally, you know, go back and forth with, you know, any of your favorite AI, you know, ChatGPT, and it'll, it'll say you, you can in certain instances. So you, Theoretically you can. So yeah, it's very, it's very, it's very interesting. And, and he talks about these, these Kordolovsky clouds, these clouds of plasma that exist in Lagrangian points between Earth and the sun, and those might be responsible for these long delay echo transmissions, really in the 1920s? Yeah.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Is there a Lagrangian point between the moon and the Earth? There is one, right?

[Jesse]

There is. And the Kordolovsky clouds are actually the Lagrangian point between the moon and the Earth.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

I misspoke because that's where we're racing to occupy.

[Jesse]

Whoa, no way.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Yeah, no, we are. I know this. We are racing as the United States government to occupy that space in orbit.

[Jesse]

You're freaking me out because he literally just wrote this research gate paper on which follows up on the new science of Heaven in his book about how. So in the 20s, at the kind of the dawn of the radio age, they were sending out all these transmissions and they would get the same transmission back and they'd freak out, they'd be like, why are we getting the same thing we just sent out? It's called a long delay echo. It's just a very weird phenomena. And if you actually watch Carl Sagan's Contact, you know, Robert Zemeckis's amazing movie, you see that the first message we get back is Hitler and he's speaking. And it's this really unfortunate thing where you're like, why are we hearing Hitler? And it's kind of, I think, paying homage to this long delay echo thing where it's like mirroring us. And if you think about people's experience with a lot of these sort of plasmoid objects, it's like with Jake Barber, like he locks onto the craft and there's this sort of consciousness mirroring thing. And so Robert Temple wrote this kind of follow up paper, research paper about these Kordolovsky clouds which might be conscious. And so that's fascinating. So we're racing to go there now.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

We are because of the it's look. Apparently it's a very strategic location and it's super critical that we get there and that we occupy that space before China does.

[Jesse]

That might be disclosure because I wonder if whatever, maybe the orbs coming to these nuclear sites and stuff, maybe they're like emissaries of this sort of Kordalovsky cloud. If you were to. You leave something to control or to as an artifact or a relic or something to affect some future civilization or affect a civilization you've departed from, you would put it in a Lagrangian point. That is where you would put it.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Right. Because it's the place where there is really no gravity. The orbit, the gravitational orbit of the Earth neutralizes itself and the moon are both neutralized.

[Jesse]

Exactly. So you're stuck there. So that would be where you would put it maybe to, you know, if you wanted to leave some sort of remnant or something. It is fascinating.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

You know, I do know Jake Barber. And I met him. I reached out to Jake through, through other people, through David and other people. And then eventually he, he agreed to meet with me. And so I, I took a trip down to California, met with Jake. An interesting story there is that we, we met at a private airport in, in Burbank. And it was just me waiting for, for Jake to arrive. And it was Jack Black.

[Jesse]

No way.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Yeah. Jack Black.

[Jesse]

Why was Jack Black there?

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

He was there to, to take a private flight up somewhere else.

[Jesse]

So randomly, Randomly.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

And, and so Jake shows up and, and, and I, he goes, do you know Jack Black? And I go, no. And he goes, let's just say hello. So we went over and said hello to Jack Black and, and he's, and we were just making small talk and he said, so what do you guys. He told us what he was doing and he said, what are you guys doing? And Jake said, well, we're just gonna, we're gonna fly over the Black Desert here. And Jack goes, why in the world would you do that? And he goes, well, this is a congressman. And Jack Black goes, hello, congressman.

[Jesse]

That's awesome.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

And then he said, we're gonna fly and go look at some super secret stuff. And Jack Black's jaw drops.

[Jesse]

Did he say, take me?

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Yeah, no, he had, he had. Otherwise, I don't. He might have wanted to go with us. It seemed like he, he would have wanted to go with us. But that was one of the neatest moments. To this day, if I meet a child like, or like, if somebody, like somebody with kids, if we, if we get talking like in my Sunday school class, I teach these fifth graders at church and they don't know who I am. And that's awesome. That's why I do it, because they don't really know. But if I ever want any kind of cred, street cred, I get out my selfie with Jack Black.

[Jesse]

That's awesome. That's so cool.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

But no, Jake was a great individual and, and somebody that I, I is kind of like grush. Like, I truly think he genuinely had his, his experiences and, and that, and that's, you know, this life these last few years had been wild to be able to say. I went out, flew with a former, you know, Special Forces guy.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

You know, over the Black Desert, looked at some military locations, installations. We flew over one of the Lockheed Martin facilities. And it was wild because it's this kind of bowl shape thing in the ground and there's a huge hangar door. It's clearly an underground structure. And all these white vans come racing out as we're, as we're flying, circling this thing. And they all just kind of post up and are watching us as we're circling over it.

[Jesse]

That's wild.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

And it's not restricted because it's so kind of secret that they don't want to restrict it.

[Jesse]

Right. Restricting it would somehow identify it or something.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

Fascinating. Whoa. Michael Herrera, who's another UFO whistleblower, he, I believe has an interesting story where Jake Barber, after getting into contact with him at this Greer event, takes him underground to this Edwards Air Force Base and possibly shows him some sort of UFO or craft. Did you experience anything like that?

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

No, no. I, I wish Jake, I wish Jake had done that, but no, I've not. I did not have the Michael Herrera experience.

[Jesse]

Okay, okay, maybe next time. But Jake is one of those guys

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

where

[Jesse]

some of this stuff, on first glance, seems beyond belief, but the longer time goes, his stuff keeps just getting proven out. It does like he comes out, you know, a year and a half ago or something and he's like talking about psionic assets getting rounded up in sometimes some not so ethical ways. Right. And that, you know, kind of human cargo and sometimes from disaster zones around the world and they're hired by these, you know, black aerospace programs that are really. There's so much plausible deniability between these outfits and they're actually the contractors that they're like, they're completely invisible. And he was kind of implying that he basically was one of these kind of hidden hands and, and that these psionic operators get used to call in craft and then they, they land and it's, it's just wild. You think that that's crazy, right? You think that that's this insane thing. And then you get Matt Gates, for example, he, I don't know if you know about this. He was doing a Twitter space and he's telling about, you know, one of his constituents who, who came into his office saying something very similar. How in the hell do you get like the humans and they say, oh

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

no, it is natural disasters? They said, actually, sadly, the unaccompanied minor crisis and the caravans that just had like kind of unaccountable swaths of humans,

[Jesse]

which is people getting rounded up in sort of disaster zones when you don't know if they're going to go missing. And it's really wild. And then, you know, Jake Barber also wrote a book called Sentinels of Ether which was so redacted by, by the, you know, the Pentagon censored it.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Supposedly a fiction book.

[Jesse]

It's a fiction book, but it's not a fiction book. Seven pages of the 20, which are just the 10% of the whole book get blacked out, get censored and, and, and, and are deemed classified. So he's one of these guys where I, I think a lot of what he's saying's pretty, pretty spot on and on the target.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Yeah, he, I think he's, he's definitely. Look, and maybe I'm just naive, but whenever I'm talking to Jake, when I'm talking to these people, I feel like they're not, not, they're not trying to be deceptive.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

If anything. So like to me, Jake had all the reason in the world to not talk about the psychological impact that he had. I mean, in fact, people told him if you want to be, you know, if you want to be taken credibly, don't, don't bring up the emotional feeling that you had. Right. When he was, when he described being in the helicopter while he's carrying what was I think he described as an egg.

[Jesse]

Yeah. I think the emotional reaction was to the eight gone craft, I believe. Yeah.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

So I think he had all the reason in the world to not to not go into that. And yet he felt compelled that, that's, that he had to say that.

[Jesse]

Yes.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

To me that's an indication of somebody who, who really feels strongly, passionately. He's not doing it for financial gain.

[Jesse]

That's right. And look, I've met, met two people that claim to have interacted with the craft. Him and Bob Lazar and they both say they experience emotional and ominous feelings around them. And then the psionic operators I've met who know how to systematically I met

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

with a third one that you have not mentioned.

[Jesse]

Okay.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Said the same thing.

[Jesse]

Okay. And, and, and so he's not public

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

and he probably will never go public, but he served in Special Forces, was in, he was, he was in the field and was brought into a room and what he describes as a hovering black again it appears like three dimensional or three meters in diameter, but this thing was blacker than black sphere that was floating and it just gave this sense of just complete evil and darkness is the way he described it. He felt ill just being around it. He felt like there was just something, something really bad about it and didn't, didn't want to go anywhere near it.

[Jesse]

And was this at an aerospace facility. Or

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

it was. It was overseas.

[Jesse]

It was overseas.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

And you can imagine, you know, he's working during the time period in which we were in war. So you can imagine it's. It's one of those locations whether it's Iraq or Afghanistan.

[Jesse]

Whoa. But it was in U. S. Possession or in.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

And so we had captured it there.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Or that it was a tech that we have. I don't know.

[Jesse]

It was maybe actually human technology or you think genuinely non human.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

He absolutely knew that it was either derived from alien tech or that it was. That it was captured.

[Jesse]

It was a blacker than black sphere. That makes me think of the lazar thing where he has his sort of reactor and it can create this almost little mini black hole or something that's blacker than black. And then rotated the emitter.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

I don't know if it was another direction or more the same way, but

[Jesse]

it made a little black ball in the air where no light was escaping, looking like a little black hole. But no, you could just tell there

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

was no light at the focal point. Right in the air. It was just a dark area. So there it's affecting light. But it wasn't in the candle test before that.

[Jesse]

So it.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

It's a really unusual. Huh.

[Jesse]

That's fascinating. And he had just a really bad feeling about it. Anything else?

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

That individual is very cloak and dagger. Very, very difficult to get him from was very difficult. Really. Whenever I talked with him, he. He was warning me that. That this. He was warning me about the dangers of. The physical dangers of getting involved in this. In this topic.

[Jesse]

What do you make of that? And do you think it's really dangerous? Legend has it that in 1943, the Navy tried to teleport a ship in what's known as the Philadelphia experiment. And it worked? Sorta. It disappeared, reappeared. And then half the crew got atomically fused into the ship's walls. Others just vanished. No one was where they were supposed to be. Talk about a breakdown in communication. You know what that sounds like? Your team before you had quo this year. Upgrade your system to a workspace that keeps your team from shattering across dimensions. If you've ever tried to schedule a meeting across five time zones and six different platforms, you know the whole horror of losing people to the ether. That's why today's episode is brought to you by Quo, spelled Q U O. The business communication system built so you never miss a call. Your entire team can handle calls and texts from one shared number. So no more missed messages or dropped conversations. Everyone sees the full thread replies are faster and customers actually feel taken care of. Of it's the number one rated business phone system on G2, which is the premier place where you review these sort of workspace applications. It has over 3,000 reviews there and more than 90,000 businesses rely on it to stay connected. So it has an amazing track record. No vanishing, no fusing into calendars, just your team fully entangled and synced across time zones, timelines and even caffeine levels. Money is on the line. Always say hello with Quo try quo for free plus get 20% off your first six months when you go to quo.com Jesse that's quashuo.com Jesse as you know we have a new starship. Of course we have a healthcare center on board. Ask what my new favorite product in it is. Irestore's Illumina face mask. This mask is like a med bed for your face. It's lightweight, super convenient cordless and runs red, blue and infrared light therapy all at once. The same type of technology NASA studied for skin healing in space. It's safe for your eyes too, so you don't have to sit there like a statue. You can live your life. I've definitely had a few late nights reading about magnetic pole shifts, but with this mask I look like I actually slept. Did I? That's debatable. It's warm, wireless, convenient and makes your skin feel super soft. And Irestore is kicking off their summer savings things with some very big discounts right now. You can get the Elite plus Illumina face mask bundle at an exclusive deal when you use code [e-mail] that's Jesse J E S S E I restore.com Please support our show and tell them we sent you.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

I you know, you've got some people that I think will dramatize it and say, you know, my life is in danger and I think think to try to get an appeal. I don't live my life that way. I don't live my life in a way in which I'm looking over my shoulder. I feel like if it's my time and God's ready to take me home, then that's his timing. It's always in his timing. So I'm just going to do what I'm going to do until that happens and not worry about it. But I mean I've had more death threats from unions whenever I was trying to pass right to work legislation than I have from people on this topic.

[Jesse]

Yeah, the topic. So it's so out there Sometimes it feels safer than politics, which is like the most heated sort of sort of thing. It's like, you know, like, I sometimes, you know, I think Tucker Carlson's probably in more danger than me. You know, doing. Doing what I'm. But at other times, I'm like, I get a little spooked and I'm like, this is. I don't know if, you know, I should be talking about this or.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

But when I talk to people like David Grush, Jake Barber, and some of these other guys and the individual that I mentioned, and they all kind of seem to warn about the same thing, particularly from the private sector, that there's certain private sector companies that they claim have some nefarious actors that will do kinetic activity. In other words, like a wetworks type army. That. That's kind of disturbing to hear.

[Jesse]

Super disturbing. Speaking of which, both Grush and Jake Barber knew Matthew Sullivan.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Right.

[Jesse]

Who was found dead two weeks before he was supposed to testify before Congress. The rumors are. And I just had Jeremy talk about.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

I don't know that he was going to testify in a. In a hearing as much.

[Jesse]

Sorry.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Come to speak to some members in a SCIF or in like, like, maybe even in an office.

[Jesse]

That's right. Yeah. So privately, you know, give.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Give his information, which is the precursor to coming before in a. In a public hearing.

[Jesse]

Sure, yeah. And I've heard that maybe he had some firsthand experience with craft.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

That's what I was told, too.

[Jesse]

Okay.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

That he was. He was in the Legacy program, had firsthand experience with craft, and that when I first met Grush, he was shaken by it, Matthew's death, and really wanted. I mean, if anything, he was trying to get my help in trying to get that exposed. And he had submitted that to the office. I think it was the Office of Inspector General. They said that it's warranted and credible, that it should be investigated. And we took that information. We've composed a letter, sent it to the FBI through the Oversight Committee, only to. Later we had been told that it had been sent. Later we found out that it had never been received.

[Jesse]

What?

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

No, it had not been received by the FBI, and that was during the Biden administration. So it may be that it was lost in transition or something, but we had to resubmit that letter.

[Jesse]

So is the FBI now investigating Matthew Sullivan's death?

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

I don't know if they have the. I don't know the status of that investigation, but I believe that they are. I strongly believe that they are because they've. They've indicated that they won't talk about an active investigation, which, which is kind of the tell that they are actively investigating.

[Jesse]

I would hope they are. Did you ever interact with Matthew yourself?

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

I did not.

[Jesse]

Okay. Yeah. Do you, do you have a sense of kind of various configurations or geometries of crafts? You know, people think of the proverbial flying saucer. Do you think it's just that, do you think. You mentioned a few others, you know, earlier. Triangle.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

I mean Lou's book describes it as though the reason why those, those shapes seem to make sense is that you've got some kind of anti gravitic device. Like if you have a smaller thing that creates a bubble, a gravity bubble, then that would naturally fit an orb or a disk. Right. And then, then if you, if you have two, then it would look something like a Tic Tac, if you have two of them. Right. Or a tube. And then if you have three, it's a triangle that's in Lou's book. But I'd have no evidence that that's the case. Only from what I've heard from other people.

[Jesse]

Lou's obviously very interesting character. You can't say he's not responsible for a lot of modern disclosure. He helped get that New York Times article published in 2017 through Leslie Kane and he was in charge of OS apparently up lately, you know, this sort of thanks to people like UAP gerb people have been saying that he's actually, you know, maybe more implicated in legacy UFO program activities. I think Ross Colthart said that as well. And if you even watch him in front of Congress, you know, In September of 24, he's saying I can't confirm or deny being read into, you know, immaculate constellation. Mr. Elizondo, were you read into the Immaculate Constellation program?

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

I would not be authorized to confirm

[Jesse]

nor deny the existence of any ongoing

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

or past program, especially as it relates

[Jesse]

to a special access program, either by name or trigraph. The implication being that maybe he was read in. You know, I interviewed him and you know, it often feels like he's sitting on a lot more information than he can say. He'll self admit that.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Yeah, I think he is. And I think, yeah, to your point, I think that he, he, he does not deny that I think that Lou, when I, I feel like Lou wants to tell you everything, but he also is a patriot and he's going to abide by his non disclosure agreement.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

And so he will, he will do go through Dobser, which is that, that process where it allows them to say things whether they'll try to put things into form of a book form that see what they, what can be released and then they know what they can talk about after that process is over. They're constantly putting things through Dobser to see what will shake loose that they can talk about. And so I feel like he is someone who is going to be loyal to his oath to the country, but he wants to get the truth out as much as he possibly can.

[Jesse]

Yeah. And our mutual friend UAP Gerb, who's a great UFO content creator who's just extremely detailed on kind of mapping the legacy program. He kind of notes that, you know, Intelligence Support Activity and Gray Fox, which do recon in super sensitive situations and areas before JSOC does. But it's part of Joint Special Operations Command, you know that Lou was a part of that. And so yeah, interesting connections there. And then you get, you ask this sort of meta question which is why in 2017 did the program say maybe it's time to out itself or like did you know, is it these elements of the program that are like this isn't being run well and Right. And so like we have to come out and we have to reform this, get a certain of information, a certain amount of information out there or like what?

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Yeah, I think it was their attempt of trying to compartmentalize what they could release without giving away our good tech. Right. The things that we, our technology. And so I think that they saw that there's, there's, there's enough and that's, that's. We have seen that ourselves. Like I get people from that are active military personnel that come to me as a member of Congress and have videos that they'll show me. They'll have information which helps us identify what we should be asking where, you know, what we should be sending letters about. And I think that they acknowledge that there is, if they don't, if they don't start managing the release of information, what can be released and what shouldn't be that the dam was going to break. That's just my best guess.

[Jesse]

Yeah. So they're trying to get in front of what they know is going to leak ultimately anyways and sort of manage how it comes out and ensure it's not this sort of catastrophic thing.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

That's my best guess.

[Jesse]

Yeah, yeah. No, I think it's a good guess along the lines of, you know, we were just talking about Matthew Sullivan. You have this sort of missing scientists narrative generally. We earlier we were talking about Amy Eskridge and ning Lee, Neil McCaslin is a general who is extremely high up. I believe he was on the Special Access Program Oversight Committee, which Lou was as well. And so he was cleared to, you know, more things than the President probably, and was, you know, head of the AFRL at Wright Patterson, the Air Force Research Laboratory. And he was the source for a lot of Tom DeLonge's kind of disclosures. In his quote, unquote fiction books, secret machines, he went super mysteriously missing. What do you think about that case?

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

To me, that's whether we've got to close that loop. I mean, this is a person who's walking around with some of our nation's most important secrets. I think it's important that we identify what happened to him.

[Jesse]

Yes.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Whether there's a body in the desert. They need to go find a body, find the body, or find out if he decided to go to Cabo and just disappear. I don't know. But at the end of the day, we need to find out what happened to this individual. I know he was on my list of people to talk to. I know that David Grush had sent. He had sent someone to interview General McCaslin and was not able to get a whole lot out of him. But I think McCaslin knew that we were definitely making inquiries, trying to set up something to talk to him.

[Jesse]

Well, that's weird that, you know, it's like, you know, a week or so after Trump, you know, and Pete Hegseth are saying we're going to officially look into this stuff. Here's a guy who's cleared to everything. He's publicly associated with Tom DeLonge and sort of some of these, you know, disclosures. And then you're looking into meeting him, and then he just disappears entirely. Yeah, with a strange fact pattern. And then he leaves his phone. Right.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

And everything.

[Jesse]

He leaves everything. But he takes a gun.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Well, they don't know that he took a gun.

[Jesse]

Okay, but one gun was missing, maybe missing.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

That's. It's not confirmed.

[Jesse]

Okay. You really read through the reports, but there's also no. No ring camera footage. No footage of him having. It felt. Felt to me, felt a little premeditated.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Yeah. Well, the fact that the latest information is he went to REI and purchased a medical kit, like a travel. Like a backpack, what you would take on a long hike, like some kind of medical.

[Jesse]

Oh, wow.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

So why, if you're gonna go kill yourself in the desert, why would you take a medical kit?

[Jesse]

No, you wouldn't. Yeah, yeah. No, I think he. He knew what he was Getting himself into.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

And then.

[Jesse]

And yeah, I feel awkward bringing this up, but his wife made this call and apparently he was not doing well towards this. I think he was feeling a little anxious and not in the greatest health. And so she says that to 911 and this call is now out there. But she then follows up on Twitter and she says maybe the best explanation for this is an alien having, you know, abducted him from a mothership, although no mothership has been found in the local area. That's strange.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

It is.

[Jesse]

It's strange. And you're, you're asking for speculation when you say that. It's. That's a weird. That's not a normal statement.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

It's not. And I guess people grieve in different ways and maybe. But. But her grieving is one of the most different ways I've ever seen someone grieve.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Over the loss of their loved ones. So I can't explain. But to your point, I agree her response has been very unusual.

[Jesse]

Definitely unusual. Speaking of unusual, you had going viral all over Twitter this idea of this meeting of these high level intelligence people who seem to know more about the UFO issue than people, you know, than people on the civilian side. And they are meeting with these pastors and religious leaders across the country and convening them and telling them to prepare their churches. They wanted to have a meeting, an urgent meeting where again, we go into this Airbnb, we have to turn our phones on airplane mode. There's no recording of the meeting, but ultimately the purpose of it was disclosure is coming quickly. And these people who are working in government agencies are pleading with pastors. They're pleading, please prepare your people so that they are not deceived by what is coming. And you were somehow thrown into this whole conversation. Do you want to talk about this?

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

That's an interesting side part of this whole journey. It seems like every time you have this conversation about UFOs and UAPs, it always kind of brings up the question of spirituality or, you know, are these angels? Are these. Some people say they're all demons, that kind of thing, but it inevitably always comes up. I don't know how to like explain this, but there's a group of people and I don't even really know what they, who they really work for, but they are very clandestine. They are former Special Forces, former military intelligence, and are working for somebody in the private who, who has given them the ability to investigate this as a side task. That's my best guess, because you'll never get out of them who they really work for. They, they seem to be good actors because whenever I talked with them, they, they kind of bumped me is the best way to describe it in Washington D.C. with, at a different meeting, the person that bumped me later on that night pulled me aside and said, hey, hey, my name is not really X, Y, Z and, and I want to, but I really am looking out for you and I want, and I can tell you that these, some of these people that we've been talking to, you probably shouldn't be trusting, fully trusting. And I wanted to see if you want to sit down and talk. And he said, he related with me a shared faith that we both are Christians, we both love Jesus and, and so, and he was, I could, I, you know, I could tell that he was genuine, absolutely genuine in that he wasn't making that part.

[Jesse]

Sure.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

So I've, you know, at the end of the day I'll talk to most anybody and I was open to talking with him and meeting with other people. It turned out that it was fairly organized, well funded operation of guys that are all, you know, of Christian faith who have a lot of concerns about some of the activity that's going on. And they, they wanted to kind of, you know, kind of maintain a contact, maintain a connection. They've, I would say this group has been extremely helpful to me. Extremely helpful.

[Jesse]

How so?

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

They brought people, whether they're whistleblowers to me, they brought tips, they brought, you know, lots of really good information. So I don't feel like they have. I, my personal interaction with this group is that they, they're, they're, they, they're actually, they, they're on my side. They're, they want to be extremely helpful and they're very transparent. Other than that, they won't talk about their, their funding.

[Jesse]

What do they do day to day? Are they working with UFO stuff or.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

I don't, I, it sounds to me like they've got a, they've got a contract to investigate a broader topic and that UAPS are part of that.

[Jesse]

What's the broader topic?

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Could be, you know, incursions on the United States, like drone incursions, things like that. So, and I, I'm, that's just my makeup. I don't know exactly just from having conversations with them. They also seem to be investigating human trafficking quite a bit. So in any event, in the course of our conversations that came up that, you know, one of these individuals is, is, is actually a chaplain, if you will. And he, I, I said, you know, you, you should. This topic really the church needs to be prepared for this and we need to have a conversation because a lot of people are going off on very wild tangents. And this, and my view is that this doesn't ne. This absolutely actually does not reject the biblical worldview. If anything, the more that I look into it, the more it really strengthens my faith. It more really strengthens. It takes the story of the Bible, if you take this into context, right, if it is true, it can take the story, the narrative, the biblical narrative, and put it on an epic scale, like a universal scale, right? Like this is a galactic story of the creator of the entire universe creating all of these planets, all these. And it does make sense that there'd be much more out there. There's a reason why there's all this space. There's gotta be other things out there. And that if. But of all the places chooses this location and this people and this species to want to commune with, that this God says, I want to create. My image is going to be this. This being, this human is going to be my, basically my representation to this whole universe. So to me, it takes that story and it makes. It puts it on a grander scale and explains potentially why if there's other beings. Timothy Albarino, I think, has probably done some of the best thought work on this. And so I would highly recommend people pick up his book Birthright, because it seems to me it's a very logical way for a Christian to approach this. Anyway, these individuals were also kind of in the same vein, and they decided they were going to put together a group of pastors, kind of slowly bring them into this conversation, see where they are. And they invited me to that event. I said I couldn't make it, but I would be happy to be on a phone call. And so they brought me in. I said, basically what I've just said to you, which is that, look, it's important that we don't have. That we don't really just completely ignore this as a topic. If anything, if something does happen, it doesn't really shake. Like it shouldn't shake your worldview at all. And I, and I kind of explained my. How that didn't shake my worldview. And then they said, so then later on, these pastors started talking about this experience and they, Some of them put words in my mouth, if you will, saying that I said, what's going to happen? I think one of the pastors later on came out and apologized and said, eric Burleson did not say this. I believe this. But when I was saying it. I should have separated the fact that what he actually said versus what I, what I believe and what he said that he believed was that these are all demons. And I would not, I have not. I'm not going to jump to that

[Jesse]

kind of conclusion or clearly that's not the case for you because you're looking into this stuff all the time. You wouldn't be spending all your time looking into demons if you thought they were all demons.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Right? Right.

[Jesse]

Yeah. Have you heard of this group called the Collins Elite, by any chance?

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

I have, yeah. That's an interesting part of this, this whole narrative.

[Jesse]

Yeah. Because, you know, like, people like Lou Elizondo and a lot of the crowd behind, you know, to the Stars Academy and like a lot of the people around Modern Disclosure describe the Collins Elite as this sort of very embedded in the government faction of deeply fundamentalist Christians who don't want to study this stuff scientifically at all because they view it as demonic. And they'll literally cite Bible passages around Lucifer being kind of the ruler of the skies. Do you think that this group that's in touch with you is at all connected with the Collins Elite?

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

I don't. I don't believe so. I mean, but I don't know for sure. They could be, I think, in general, and this is actually the opposite of what I was trying to get to, which is that. Excuse me, I would disagree with somebody who is of the Collins Elite view. I disagree with a religious leader who definitively says we shouldn't be approaching this or talking about this topic because it is all demonic. I don't, like. I don't have the evidence that that's the case. If anything, as a Christian, what would you say to Mary when she was approached by the angel Gabriel? Don't talk to anything that isn't from this earth because it's all demonic. Right. And so that's like, the first thought that I have is that when you read the Bible, most of the times in which an angel or something that's not. Not of earth.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Comes forward. I mean, this is all assuming that that's what you believe. If you, if, if you, if we assume that what we're experiencing are beings that are described spiritually as either angels or demons or et cetera, part of that kind of category, then, then go back historically. Most of the time that people are, Are getting a message or get, or having a conversation, it's not from a fallen angel. It's from, from. It's from a messenger from God. Like the word angel Literally means messenger from God. It doesn't categorically say that this is what this being is. It does describe different beings like cherubim, Seraphim. Right. The watchers, which are kind of interesting and they're all kind of utilized by God to be a messenger or an angel. But I mean, that's a long tangent. But that's to say when I apply my biblical worldview to this topic, if that were the case, I wouldn't necessarily jump to the conclusion that they're all demons.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Which is why I don't really have a lot of high view of the Collins elite perspective.

[Jesse]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree with you. I think to say that none of the spiritual overlays that we've, you know, had for years, like, you know, a lot of, you know, Judaism, Christianity, Islam, like, none of those apply as somehow to what we're looking at now, I think is dogmatic and crazy. Of course, like, they might, you know, a lot of these things. I like the concept of Lindy. If something has survived for thousands of years, it probably has value. And so it probably has value as far as describing, you know, the nature of things, some archetypal value. And so to say that the Bible has no archetypal value, I think is sort of nuts. And then, yeah, I find myself sort of in between that. And then the other side is like, you know, sometimes I'll hear people like Shawn Ryan or Tucker Carlson. They'll be like, it's spiritual. And they'll be like, it's just, you know, it's demons or something. And it's like, well, what is an angel? What is a demon? Like, can we not inquire into what those things actually are? That's sort of a low level descriptor that ends any conversation.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Right.

[Jesse]

And you can't have one without the other, even in the biblical context. So some might be really good, you know.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

That's right. That's why, again, I go back to what Timothy. I think Timothy Alberino's work is. He's really kind of analytically, logically approached this to say, for example, like, if you were visited by people from another country, go back in the time in which the, the, you know, Europeans were colonizing the, the Americas. Some of them, not all of them, were bad people. Some of them, you know, were good. Some of them certainly were bad. But like you, it. I just think that you shouldn't categorize it all for sure one thing, unless you absolutely, definitively know.

[Jesse]

I agree. And I've seen a remarkably low Amount of evidence for the space alien thing. Like you can go back to, you know, certain abductions. You know, obviously Betty and Barney Hill saying they're from a binary star system mapped out, looked like Zeta Reticuli, things like that. You can find a decent amount of things like that. But there is just as much, if I wanted to steel man, the argument for future human time travelers, and I wanted to steel man, the angels and demons argument, you could just as easily steel man those things as you, you could space aliens. So it's, all of them feel somewhat arbitrary. And I almost feel like the more worthwhile philosophical endeavor would be how would you reconcile all of those things? Because maybe we're talking in these sort of limited frameworks and it's false dichotomies, right? Like maybe, maybe angels can fly to different planets, maybe they can travel through time.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Maybe they're from different planets.

[Jesse]

Maybe they're from different planets, right?

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Like maybe they are extra dimensional. Maybe they're from different planets. Or maybe, maybe there's also other creations at different planets in addition to, you know, categorically angels that are spiritual. I mean, who knows?

[Jesse]

Yeah, I find the modern conversation around all of this stuff frustrating because it feels like on the one hand it's like it's space aliens, and then on the other hand with Arrow, it's like it's nothing. And I think in reality, the people who say it's nothing know that it's actually in certain cases, they're bad faith actors that know that it's much deeper than the nothing. So, but they, they know it's actually deeper than, than space aliens too. So they, they, they actually know that there's something around the consciousness stuff. The fact that this is all kind of an interface, there's something deeper going on in reality. So they can, in good faith, people like Sean Kirkpatrick say I have no evidence for extraterrestrials because that's such an overseas simplification.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

That's right. Well, and if there's no proof of where it came from, which planet it came from, then how, then, then you could definitively, you could say, well, I, I have no evidence of extraterrestrial. Yeah, right.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

So I think that exactly. I, I just, I, Right now anybody that says they have all the answers clearly is, doesn't.

[Jesse]

Yeah, yeah. Anybody speaks with really high confidence, says they're all good or they're all bad or I know where they're from.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

I love the information the book send me. I've gotten some wild. So I've. Somebody Sent me both volumes of the Encyclopedia Galactica, which is. Have you seen this?

[Jesse]

No.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

It's very creative, but this person has written hundreds and hundreds of pages with graphics and of. Of different categories of species of aliens and which planets they're from. And it goes in great detail. I'll try to get you.

[Jesse]

Oh, I'd love to check. That sounds awesome.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

I mean, the level of creativity of that. Of that material is off the charts.

[Jesse]

It's off the charts. It's incredible. But yes, I agree. When somebody starts to speak super definitively and confidently about alien race taxonomies, I'm like, I don't know. Where are you getting this?

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Right? You know, show me the receipts.

[Jesse]

Show me the receipts. Yeah, but I'm down to read that book.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

That sounds awesome.

[Jesse]

If you were to pick anyone in government to subpoena or get endless time with in a skiff, you know, secure compartmentalized information facility on this specific issue, UFOs, who would it be?

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

I would say probably Glenn Gaffney, who is, you know, former CIA. A lot of people I talked to said that this is somebody that we need to talk to. And then Steve Cantrell, who's former Air Force, I think, senior intelligence from the Air Force. A lot of people to talk to. And then the other name that kept. Kept coming up sadly was General McCasland.

[Jesse]

Right.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

And then there's another individual that. That has since passed away. And so those are the people that I would like to talk to.

[Jesse]

Can you say who the individual who passed away was?

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

I. I'm for. I'm blanking on the name right now. I can get that to you.

[Jesse]

Okay. It's fascinating. It's such a weird as. I'm sure you're running into, like, org chart. Like, it's like often not the person who's the most superior in the particular organization that you're looking for. It's like the deputy that knows more than the superior. And there are these, like, weird cutouts. And I've never seen anything that cuts across so many government agencies. Air Force, Navy, CIA, Office of Naval Intelligence. It seems like all of these groups have some nsa. All of these groups have something to do with this issue. But it's often these, like, vital sub compartments. It's not like from the top. Yeah, it's so weird. It's almost as if, like, the aliens are, like, running the programs themselves or something, because I don't understand. Look, you know this better than anybody. The government's not well organized and stuff leaks and like, especially things that are that broadly distributed. So that, that feels like a really interesting feature of this whole thing. Just. Yeah, the organizational.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

That's why I think that it's probably organized from, from the FFRDC level somewhere because then they can create the program and the reason for the funding and then report up only what they have to report up to get the funding necessary.

[Jesse]

So they create the special access program, they create a little vital sub compartment and then they only have to report up a certain amount of stuff. And they're these subject matter experts. So that's interesting. So they're the vital core of this whole thing. Federally funded.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

And honestly, from my experience in government, the higher you go, the more broad things are and the less people know or they act like they know or nobody, nobody really asks the right questions, especially members of Congress. Most of the time they'll just take, you know, you'll pass bills that are appropriating billions and billions of dollars to programs with just very generic explanations as to what they do.

[Jesse]

Right.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

And often it sounds wonderful. I mean, look at what happened with usaid. You have had billions being spent and it would, it all sounded like rosy, very, very nice things. And then when you looked into it, it was, it was when you looked

[Jesse]

into the CIA regime change or some, you know, diversity initiative somewhere or so just some. So sometimes a nonprofit that was just taking the money and using it on

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

nonsense, paying for transgender comic books in certain countries.

[Jesse]

Just crazy, right? Like what? Yeah.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

What is that?

[Jesse]

So. Yeah. Okay, that's interesting. The broader. You go up in the civilian government of a handle they probably have on these things.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Yeah. I mean they certainly would have the authority if they wanted to, to drill down and get and to pull that information out of them. But oftentimes they're not going to even know what questions to ask. And that's my experience. I truly feel like what we're experiencing right now with the White House, Stephen Miller is now leading up this investigation. The low hanging fruit was to say we know that there's a bunch of these video files that are sitting at the Department of War in like sipper and, and all these other. Because we know all these people are leaking them, so let's just release all of them. And so the first tranche, that's what you saw, is a bunch of videos from drones, from MQ9 Predator drones, where they've cited something that seems really strange. But then where do you go from there?

[Jesse]

Right.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

It's actually going to be a lot more sticky and difficult and you'll have to really roll up your sleeve. And you have to know where to go to ask the. Right. And what questions to ask.

[Jesse]

Right.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

And so to the point in which I was kind of frustrated with the White House that they, that they were doing this release and weren't working with the, you know, Secrets task force, weren't working through Luna and myself and Burchett. And then they, they called and said, you know, hey, can you be. Can you say some positive things about the President's release from. I said, I don't even know what you're releasing. Missing. You guys haven't said anything to us. You haven't included us. And the response was, well, we're. You're. We're absolutely going to be including you next, because we really don't know exactly where to go next.

[Jesse]

Right.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

And when you hear that, when you hear people at the top saying, we need your help knowing where to go, look, that, to me, that is, that's the, that's really what we're experiencing.

[Jesse]

It's a little disconcerting because we know that's government by and for the people. And it's like they don't even have a handle on this stuff, which seems like really important.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

The strategy they have, I think, is a good one if they actually pull it off. And what will be the game changer is if they say the President comes out and says everyone's NDAs related to this topic are null and void. So that frees up a Lou Elizondo and Chris Mellon and all of these people to be able to say David Grush and Jake Barber to say whatever they fully want to say. And then it also frees up anybody else who may have been waiting to be able to come forward. The other things they need to do is they really need to make it right to the people that have already come forward and suffered the consequences, like Grush. Right. The people that lost their pensions, they lost their health benefits, that lost their, Their, Their clearance level.

[Jesse]

It'd be great if Grush was in a position of power because this guy has. Did all the work. He compiled hundreds of pages of documents. He gave it to the, you know, intelligence community inspector general. They said it was urgent. Incredible. Like, I can't think of anybody better who just has access. But I think that's why he creates all the, you know, there are all these kind of allergic reactions to him, Right? Because he, he, he knows a lot, and I think people know he knows a lot.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

They do. And I, that's why I begged oversight, this. To hire. Oversight committee to hire him. I begged anybody in the agencies that, that are investigating this, I'd love to see hire him. That's why I hired him. Yeah.

[Jesse]

Because at least that's a great hire. It's a good deal for you, I think. I'd love to see ODNI or the White House or, you know, like, you know, it'd be epic if you had his knowledge combined with their ability to knock down doors. I mean, you're knocking down doors right now, but you must feel on some level you're like, why isn't he. You know, why isn't the President?

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

No, because the truth is David can give me information and I can go bang on the door, but I can't knock it down.

[Jesse]

Sure. Right.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

But if he's working with President Trump, he could go blast the door open.

[Jesse]

Right. What do you think President Trump knows about UFOs,

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Mike? I do believe he's been briefed. I don't know for sure. This is what I've heard, that he's been briefed. There's a funny anecdotal story that comes with that, that I don't know if it's fiction or not, but it was that Trump was, was during that briefing, he was told that there are hybrids and told the narrative that they were. That there's hybrids that potentially live amongst us. And, and that Trump's response was. You mean like Adam Schiff?

[Jesse]

No way.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Which is which I could totally believe that he would say something like that, but. Yeah.

[Jesse]

Wasn't he briefed on, like, Nordics or something? Like Nordic aliens?

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Yeah, something like that. And so, I mean, do we know for sure? I've been told. I was told that this. Again, this is not definitive. This is what I've been interesting. So he. Who knows? He may. But I. It. It's clear he's not been briefed to the level of, Of David. Like what. Or. Or if he has been, he also may not just trust the people briefing it.

[Jesse]

Sure. Yeah. It's. It's such a weird topic. A good story that encapsulates the weirdness of this topic and is in the 90s. Clinton really wanted to be read in. He was really interested in this whole thing. And that's why Podesta later gets really involved. And so he's trying to figure out what's going on with UFOs, what's happening. And this guy, Ron Pandolfi, who's at the CIA, he is helping him, and he gets this civilian researcher, Bruce Maccabee, to brief Clinton. And it's like, wait, that's the best you can get from briefing our president on this topic. And maybe if it's like a brief on this weird metaphysical thing that's weakly entangled with reality, that's one thing. But there's a whole gradation of possibilities here up until like literally flying objects that deliver payloads. And if you're not being briefed on that and you're the President, it's like you're not being briefed on the next hypersonics thing that the US has capabilities wise. That's like insane. And so this topic is. It breaks your brain when you hear stories like that. You're like what? Right. It makes you feel like there's some secret society, breakaway civilization. Like some of these UFO researchers like Richard Dolan uses that kind of as like a conceptual. You know, maybe it's this he's not high conviction in it, but it kind of gets you into that territory.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

So where I'm at right now is that I think that it's either one of two things. It's. One is that we're at a place where our military really doesn't. And even all the way up and down the system, nobody really even knows what these glowing orbs are. And that like while we have this false belief that the government has this ability, that we have these craft, that we have this understanding, we have this false belief in. That we have way too much confidence in our federal government which is know.

[Jesse]

Always a safe bet.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Always a safe bet. The. So there's that and, and that. But that there is something mystical out there that we don't know. And certainly obviously there's things that, that we all don't know. Right. And that being one of them. The other worldview could be that we. That there is a layer that knows what's really going on. But it is, but it's this middle layer.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

And that the information is only going to matric. Matriculate up if it's demanded or, or even in on it. And then downward. It's only, it's compartmentalized, overly compartmentalized. And the question is, how do you get to that layer of the onion?

[Jesse]

And you get into really weird territory philosophically too because you can say, oh, it starts with the federally funded research and development centers. But then we were talking about this, you know, before we started rolling. It's like the, the if there is a feature around the UFO thing, it's the like, like chasing your tail dynamic of anyone looking into it. And I'm talking anyone, even some of the People, you know, in the movie Age of Disclosure, like, are described as like outsider civilian investigators. When like people who watch UFO shows think that they're like at the center of the thing. Like no one's at the center of the thing. And then you get into the, you know, like this guy I mentioned, Tim Taylor at Aerospace Corporation, he's saying he's taking orders from an angel and he's operating on like a higher mandate. And his whole hierarchy of, of the stratification of the government involves senior intelligence officials. And then I think it goes human alien hybrids, angels. He has a whole thing that goes above the government.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

I've got to read Tim Taylor's stuff.

[Jesse]

Check this out. And he's a dude that's high functioning. He's been working on NASA missions since the Challenger, where he actually talks about Judith Resnik who died in the Challenger mission. It really affected him. But he's, he's a known entity at NASA. He's worked there for a long time. And then he's also at Aerospace Corporation, like a very real guy. And then also, you know, clearly had dealings at the highest levels of government. He claimed to meet with the President actually in certain cases and is showing up in these experiencers lives too. He showed up in the life of Chris Bledsoe. He showed up with Charles hall who said that he lived with aliens at Area 51. He knows Whitley Strieber. So it's this very, he's almost like he's operating on some higher mandate, like who's, who's ordering him to go, you know, talk to these experiencers.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Yeah, that's wild. I do know like one of the individuals that, that was brought to me was, was highly credible that that does receive what he describes as downloads. And this is not a, this is not a weirdo. This is not a guy living in a van down by the river. This is a very respected individual in, in our, in our nation.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Not famous, but just a very respected business leader and, and thought leader.

[Jesse]

I know who this person is. Yeah. I'm not going to out him, but.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Okay.

[Jesse]

Yeah. But yeah, he has some very interesting experiences where he sort of channels prophecies.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

And it's, it's always hard to say because it's, you know, some of these things, you know, often feel filtered through the person and sometimes they can be almost seductively adjacent to true things, but they also feel like, how would you know that sort of thing? You know, really on the nose in certain cases. So. And he reaches out to me actually because I'll often cover something with my show, and he'll be like, I channeled the exact thing or whatever. I'm like, whoa, that's kind of trippy.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

So he, he's been a very. I, I think he's a fantastic person to know.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

And, and I don't doubt him. I don't doubt that he. He believes that he.

[Jesse]

I don't doubt his experiences. No. Yeah.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

And.

[Jesse]

And I'll keep it high level, but, yeah, he has a very impressive business track record as well. Just has done some remarkable things.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

You don't operate at the level that he's operating if you, if there's something off.

[Jesse]

No, exactly. Well, that's what I mean. I think a lot of people have this misconception that the higher you go in society, the, like, less trippy you get. Like, it's not functional to be out there and into metaphysics or eschatology or any of these things. And I think it's the opposite. I think often the higher you go, the more like, oh, there's something interesting going on, maybe.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Yeah. Because you start, you start. You stop thinking about, you know, how am I going to pay for my boat? Or how am I going to, like,

[Jesse]

you know, your Maslow's hierarchy of needs

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

moves you to a point where you start thinking of the higher 100%.

[Jesse]

Have you ever spent time around Trump? I have, because I want to. I want to hear what that was like, because Tucker Carlson was recently interviewed by the New York Times, and it was one of these clearly, like, kind of. Kind of smug. Gotcha. Like, New York Times was trying to like, make him look like a fool or whatever, and he was like, it's a. I think he described it as like a supernatural experience being around Trump. And Trump is like, like, he's a very. He's a. He's a phenomena of a person. You know, he, like, he, he grew up at this. You couldn't write this up. His preacher growing up was Norman Vincent Peale, who wrote the Power of Positive Thinking. And if you think about his whole thing, it's like this, like, kind of like, we're going to be bigger and we're going to be better. You know, it's just like. And it's sort of like manifest, and it ends up happening and he's able to just. He keeps going and. So was that your experience? What did you.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

I found him to be a very, actually a very hospitable, very sweet and warm individual, and then at times, the funniest person you'll ever meet. He he will especially. I mean, he's pretty much the same person on camera or on a stage. Yeah, pretty much. I think he takes off the filter a little bit.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Or he'll tell stories like he told. I got to the time I spent the most time with him was during one of the days that he was on trial and it was the day that, that his attorney Cohen was testifying against him. And it was so remarkable. That day was so remarkable because you had him on the stand, admit that he's stealing money from Donald Trump and yet he's a credible witness to, to the, this. I think at the time it was his, the housing like that he had overvalued his properties or whatever. So, so he's got to spend a lot of time with Trump. What was also fascinating is this, this guy, one of the wealthiest people in the world and when he orders food, it's, it's just pepperoni pizza, just boxes of pepperoni pizzas. And he didn't. Because normally if you were going to order food for a group of people, you would probably do, you know, we'll do a few of this, few of that, few of this. Right. Complicated. A little bit. Trump is not, he's, he's, he kept it simple. You know, everyone's eating pepperoni pizza.

[Jesse]

It's hilarious. And I think, I believe he loves Big Macs and I think he's a little paranoid and Big Macs are pre prepared so that they can't be meddled with. But he's clearly running on some sort of junk energy that like it really, you know, his father, Fred Trump, he believed that the human heart was like a battery. So the more you worked out, the more you lowered the energy in the battery. And yeah, so it's like, like Trump's like eating Big Macs and pepperoni pizza and he's chilling at Mar Lago and

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

working all night long.

[Jesse]

Working all night long. He's sleeping four hours a night and he's, he's, he's what, in his early 80s now? He's.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Right, right.

[Jesse]

And he's, he's still going. He's, he's a remarkable. Whatever your politics are. It's like that guy is physical specimens.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Specimen.

[Jesse]

He's a physical specimen.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

He should be studied. He is the ufo.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

The other thing I found him comical is the ch. We were in, like, what. Honestly, the courtroom we were, that we were in reminded me of the TV show Night Court. Like that kind of New York. Like everything's old, a little bit dingy. Not, not exactly Nice new furniture. And Trump commented several times about how much he loved, loved the chairs in the side room that we were in. And these were not even nice chairs. He's like, I love these chairs. He's so comfortable. I love. He was just commenting about something. I thought it just. That struck me. Right.

[Jesse]

Yeah. Well, he, I mean, somebody like that has gotta be operating at such a high level, but you also need that in person. Charisma. And so you remember the little details too, in a way that probably just wins the favor of like everyone. And I'm sure there are tons of people, people who criticize him so much from afar.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

And then they get pulled in by that handshake and he starts talking and like, you know, they goo goo gaga, you know, I'm sure that happens all the time.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Yeah, he does that. No one has more charisma.

[Jesse]

Yeah, yeah. Where do you think we go on. On UFOs? Like, it feels like, look, for as much as we've been talking about kind of the quixotic, sometimes sisyphean aspects of this whole topic, which feels, you know, like, very frustrating. We've made a lot of progress and I think you're a big part of that progress. So I guess I'd love to hear, you know, maybe some behind the scenes stories of like, what has led us to today, which we're at a historic juncture where we're getting releases from the Department of War. And then what do you see as like a go forward outlook?

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

I think we would not have been here had it not been for this, like, magic moment where we had, where we had. I'll begin with the bravery of people like David Grush and Lou Elizondo coming forward. Admiral Gallaudet, you know, Dylan Borland. The list goes on. Right. You've had some really brave people that have sacrificed their careers to come forward. And then you've had members of Congress who, I mean, selfishly, I'll say that it was not exactly an advice that was given to me by my campaign advisor. He said, do not talk about this topic. It's going to kill your political career. Because no one. This is not something that's going to advance you. People are going to smirk about it and you won't be taken seriously politically.

[Jesse]

I think it ended up working in reverse. I think people love you because you jumped into this.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

I hope so. But yeah, there's people like myself, Tim Burch, I'm going to say, the godfather of the Congress that kind of was willing to talk about it. And then obviously leadership of Annapolina Luna. And then us just as a team, pushing and pushing. Any moment that we would get, we would be telling the White House staff, you know, we would be nagging them about this. And then we, us trying to pass the UAP Disclosure act language on the National Defense Authorization act, you know, coming up, failing, but at least getting that spotlight put on it, that moved the ball. But then when we finally got Trump in and then he, he was, you know, following through on the disclosure of the JFK files, following through on the disclosure of MKUltra and the Martin Luther King Jr. Files, all of these things. And even though it was sticky and messy, the Epstein files, at the end of the day, Trump is the disclosure president. And when he finally issued this, directed to release the UFO files. We are in a historic moment because you've had presidents that never wanted to talk about this, that have always kept the secret. And this president and the fact that you have a combination of Congress that's willing to actually roll up their sleeves and do the work. This is a magic moment. And so where we go from here, I think, has to do with this task force that Stephen Miller has put together and the fact that Trump assigned Miller.

[Jesse]

That's his guy.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Exactly. He's the guy who Trump said first, when he first came in, assigned him to fix the border wall situation. And then so, you know, it's like, those are his top priority. That's his top priority. Now he's assigned to this. That's a big deal. So you got Stephen Miller leading the charge. He's a bulldog. And then you've got a team of people. The fact they're making the CIA work come to the table. They're making the Department of Energy talk about this. They're putting together this team. I have, I've got, you know, I'm skeptical, but I've got a little bit of hope. And then I, what I'm trying to do is trying to hit the private sector, get this, them on alert. And then. And a lot of these letters that I'm sending to, whether it's Miter or Rand or MIT Lincoln Labs, we're, we're working. I'm, you know, basically telegraphing to the White House, hey, look at what I'm doing. You guys need to follow up and, and follow this investigation.

[Jesse]

And you, you. And you're working kind of hand in hand with Grush on a lot of this stuff.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Yes. And, and some others that, that are kind of advisors that are outside advisors.

[Jesse]

Any others that you can mention that

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

don't want to be public. None of them want to be public.

[Jesse]

Okay, what do you know? Because I think it's easy for, you know, people in the audience to be skeptical around reprisals that people faced.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

I will say I have a. I have a nickname for that group. The Lone Gunman.

[Jesse]

Yeah, exactly.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

That. Are my little team of advisors helpful for him?

[Jesse]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, what. So have you. Do you have any insight into the kind of pushback that people like David Grush have faced?

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Yeah, I think that I got to see a meeting happen between Grush and some. Someone from the o. From odni. That was a pretty blunt meeting where he had. He was. And you could tell they were basically apologizing for the way in which he was. He's been treated over these years. Years. And so I think the. The message that I'm trying to deliver to them is it's going to take more than. Than an apology. You know, you guys really need to, you know, you need to correct some of the. The things that have happened.

[Jesse]

Do you think we have saucers and hangers? Do you think we have real physical craft sitting in. In hangers? Do you think we have. Have alien bodies in facilities?

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

I don't have any evidence, but I hope we do. I would love it if we do. That's what I'm. That's what I'm trying to find. But I don't have any evidence of it.

[Jesse]

But if you had to guess, if you had to. I'm. I'm for. To the audience, this is. I'm. I'm making you engage in speculation. If it's like a yes or no,

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

probability wise, I would say maybe. I would say, say 10% chance that we do.

[Jesse]

10%, okay. But worthy of investigation because of the implications of what we do and all the circumstances.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

Game changer. It's. It's breakaway technology. And honestly, if we did have it again, that I go back to the time that I spent on the tarmac, I think we. We should all be frustrated that we are not able to share in this. If there is a breakaway technology that's being hidden.

[Jesse]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, Congressman Eric Burleson, this. This has been an honor. It's been a lot of fun. It's really refreshing, actually, to hear somebody who's just like, this is what was told to me. I'm cataloging it, and I'm gonna look for more evidence, and I'm just gonna follow the trail and I'm not gonna be dramatic about it. I'm not gonna act. All histrionic attention seeking, call myself a starseed, say people are coming after me. You know, there's a lot of. There's enough of that, trust me. And that's not to say I don't indulge some of that myself with people I speak to. But like, no, I think what you have is missing. So. So I appreciate your just kind of hold candid approach to the whole topic.

[Congressman Eric Burleson]

I think that's really needed appreciate the deep dives that you do. I watch your podcasts. I sometimes have to chunk them because they're long, but I really love your work. You're an elite class and the product that you produce is of the highest caliber and I look forward to every episode.

[Jesse]

I don't know what to say that means so much. I appreciate. Appreciate it. Awesome. All right, cool. If you want to access our episodes 24 hours early and want to watch them completely ad free, please consider supporting the show by joining our YouTube membership. Just click the link in the description to join today. Your support helps us so much and it allows us to keep making the show and go deeper into the kinds of stories we care most about. And a little early access and not getting bogged down by ads. Kind of a cool perk. So join today. Sam.