American Alchemy – “I Spent 3 Years With Tall White Aliens At Area 51”

With UFO Whistleblower Charles Hall
Host: Jesse Michels
Date: September 11, 2025

Episode Overview

In this extraordinary episode of American Alchemy, host Jesse Michels interviews Charles Hall, former Air Force weather observer and author of the Millennial Hospitality series, who claims to have spent years interacting with at least three types of extraterrestrials, most notably the “Tall Whites,” while stationed at Nellis Air Force Base and Area 51 during the 1960s. The conversation traverses Hall’s personal history, his development of the “Hall Photon Theory” (a challenge to Einstein’s relativity), detailed descriptions of alien species and technology, theories on the origins and purpose of Area 51, government and alien collaboration, and the strange involvement of prominent aerospace insiders.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Charles Hall’s Story: Life at Area 51

• Background: Hall joined the US Air Force in 1964 and served as a weather observer at the Indian Springs Gunnery Ranges, adjacent to Area 51 (07:49).
• Initial Encounters: He began noticing tall, pale, glowing figures at night, first believing them to be ghosts (01:14), later recognizing repeated, intelligent presence.
• Range 4 Harry Legend: Airmen circulating stories about a fluorescent “radioactive horse”—later revealed to be a formation of Tall Whites moving together (02:00, 16:59).
• Social Integration: Hall was unique among soldiers in building trust with these beings after 41 others returned traumatized or injured (44:20, 137:21).

2. The Tall Whites, Grays, and Nordics (“Norwegians with 24 Teeth”)

Tall Whites

• Habitat: Live in underground facilities north of Indian Springs Valley (01:16; 13:58).
• Appearance/Behavior: Extremely tall, glowing, family-oriented; organized, can disguise as humans (04:07; 110:03).
• Technology: Superior to Grays, can exceed the speed of light, possess defensive/offensive gear (03:53; 09:57; 12:23).
• Interactions: Can communicate through high-frequency sound (beyond human hearing) and use electronic devices for “thought implantation” (15:40-16:25).
• Emotional Distance: Live 10 times longer than humans; friendships with humans are tinged with the perspective of our short lifespans (122:23).

Grays

• Origins: From a planet closer to Earth than that of the Tall Whites (03:53; 09:57).
• Technology: Good but inferior to the Tall Whites; more numerous and responsible for most craft sightings (09:57).

“Norwegians with 24 Teeth” (Nordics)

• Description: “More patient, diplomatic, even benevolent” (04:07).
• Integration: Some can blend among humans unnoticed.

3. The Hall Photon Theory: Challenging Einstein

• Motivation: Direct observation of craft exceeding light speed during duty convinced Hall that relativity was incomplete (09:57; 12:22).
• Theory: Photons possess more force fields than just electric and magnetic—Einstein failed to account for these, allowing for faster-than-light travel (08:04, 65:02).
• Implications:
  • Gravity is much weaker but can travel faster and farther than light—a design exploited by alien spacecraft (69:51).
  • UFO propulsion depends on smooth, ellipsoidal shapes (like eggs or tic-tacs) to prevent turbulence in overlapping force fields, enabling superluminal speeds (74:42; 76:12).

Notable Quote

“The biggest shock … was discovering that Einstein was wrong about relativity. The craft … could easily exceed the speed of light by many times.”
— Charles Hall (09:57)

4. UFO Craft, Technology, and Design

• Craft Description: Appeared as large, rounded “egg-shaped” or “tic-tac-like” objects, lacking sharp edges or concave surfaces to minimize force field turbulence (14:19; 77:26).
• Force Fields: When powered, crafts shimmer with a luminous “force field,” becoming indistinct (35:32).
• Materials: Core structure built from ceramic fiber optics—aluminum, silicon dioxide, and semiconductors—wound into coils that channel exotic subatomic particles (87:30, 97:19).
• Engines/Propulsion:
  • Advanced engines use a set of five (sometimes up to nine) subatomic particles; “deep” craft repairable from inside, unlike scout craft (87:30; 82:56).
  • Crash evidence (Roswell) suggests melted fiber optics, not “memory metal” as often described (94:18, 98:59).
• Mind/Machine Interface: Human pilots require electronic adaptation—no psychic control; electronics read thoughts and adapt, unique to each operator (105:50).
• Bathroom Detail: Every craft contains a restroom; myths about shrines onboard are mistaken (102:09, 104:40).

Notable Moment

“You don’t do anything psychically. Everything is electronics—either adjusted to tell what you’re thinking ... or does not work at all.”
— Charles Hall (105:50)

5. The Area 51 Enigma: “Why Here?”

• Pre-existing Oddities: Hall argues remote test sites like Area 51 were chosen due to already-present “weirdness”: electromagnetic anomalies, Native American legends, and possible interdimensional portals (24:31).
• Government Curiosity: Desert Game Range (set up 1937) suspiciously protected populations of “white” bighorn sheep with anti-aircraft crews, raising the possibility that the area was being secured for reasons besides wildlife conservation (28:46, 31:08).
• Pattern Evidence: Sites of high strangeness—e.g., Skinwalker Ranch, Sedona—often co-located with secret military installations (24:31).

Notable Quote

“If it happened once, it would be random. If it happened twice, a coincidence. But the third time you see it’s there, somebody planned it.”
— Charles Hall (28:46)

6. Alien-Human Government Collaboration

• Command Awareness: Only a “handful” in the Pentagon were aware of and directly interacted with the Tall Whites; most Air Force personnel thought of the encounters as ghost stories (16:35).
• No Formal Debriefing: Hall was never officially briefed or debriefed, as the Tall Whites could telepathically or electronically read his thoughts—any attempt would risk retaliation (45:44).
• Co-existing Jurisdictions: Tall White base treated as alien embassy; longstanding arrangement since Ice Age arrivals (20:36).

7. Selection and Psychological Resilience

• Why Charles Hall?: A CIA psychiatrist with “nine PhDs” said Hall unconsciously used 70 of 105 psychological defenses, more than any other candidate. This resilience enabled him to survive mentally intact where 41 before him “returned compromised” (41:06, 137:21).
• Survival Tactics: Hall’s approach was to remain open, non-confrontational, and rational, even rationalizing (to himself) that he was “sleepwalking” or hallucinating during early encounters (25:10; 49:52).

Notable Quote

“He told me … there was 105 different psychological defenses that humans might use … the first time he met me, he was shocked because … he saw me use the first 70 out of the 105.”
— Charles Hall (41:06)

8. The Timothy Taylor Connection and Insider Intrigue

• Timothy Taylor: Former NASA engineer (alias “Tyler D.” in American Cosmic) and biotech entrepreneur, frequently described as a “gatekeeper” with access to crash retrievals and contacts with UFO experiencers.
• Relationship: Taylor visited the Halls, brought colleagues, and maintained years of contact, but eventually disappeared from communication (127:26–132:13).
• Other Insiders: Connections with alleged “Nassau Group” involved in speculative time travel programs; discussed by the host (125:02).

Notable Moment

“[Taylor] realized … that Charles was the real article … It’s so strange that he would just not contact you after 15 years, though.”
— Marie Therese Hall & Jesse Michels (132:13)

9. Alien Motives and Human Relations

• Earth as a Pit Stop: Hall believes aliens chose Earth as a strategic “pit stop” for interstellar travel—akin to the U.S. having a base on Guam (114:27).
• Human Usefulness: Tall Whites and Grays are plant-based eaters; have long relied on locals to grow, harvest, and deliver food (116:09).
• Social Distance: Friendships with humans are marked by affectionate curiosity, but our short lives make deep, lasting connections hard from their perspective (122:23).
• Integration Attempts: There were programs for Tall Whites to disguise as humans and blend into scientific circles (110:03).

Memorable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On first seeing the “horse” formation:

  “There was this giant white radioactive horse that floated around the ranges at night and was fluorescent.”
  — Charles Hall (00:20)

• Describing the Tall Whites’ force fields:

  “If you get too close, the fields will burn you like a microwave.”
  — Charles Hall (32:46)

• On witnessing craft speed:

  “If they are choose to go straight down the line of sight ... they can go seven miles at an average speed of 8,000 to 12,000 miles ... taking more than 15,000 Gs ... 10,000 Gs will liquefy steel.”
  — Charles Hall (35:38–36:15)

• On electronic “thought transmission”:

  “... their electronics also are able to tell what a person is thinking and to put thoughts in the conscious part of their mind by electronic means.”
  — Charles Hall (15:40)

• On policy regarding classified briefings:

  “I can never be briefed. I can never be debriefed ... if a briefing person were to say ... they could tell it by just reading my line, my thoughts. The next thing they would demand is that somebody like that officer be delivered to them ... And he wouldn't live another moment.”
  — Charles Hall (45:43)

• On why he was “chosen”:

  “He said … [with] the first 15 minutes he saw me use the first 70 out of the 105 [defenses]. ... the 41 men that went out before me … their psychological defenses got destroyed.”
  — Charles Hall (41:06–44:20)

• On the emotional aspect:

  “I scared easy but just let me eat and talk for a while, I’ll get over it.”
  — Charles Hall, recalling the Tall Whites’ opinion of him (135:59)

• Radiation Hazards:

  “When you saw [radioactive decay particles] out in the desert, they’d be coming off distances like … [gestures several feet]. Those suits had tremendous power.”
  — Charles Hall (139:45)

Timestamps to Major Segments

• Charles Hall’s background & early encounters: 00:01–03:53
• Descriptions of alien races: 03:53–04:42
• The “Hall Photon Theory” and challenging Einstein: 08:04–13:43, 64:16–78:16
• UFO technology and design principles: 14:16–15:40, 76:12–87:06
• Government and military base mysteries: 24:31–32:46
• Hall’s selection and psychological endurance: 41:06–49:45, 137:21
• Alien social structure and motives: 109:26–116:23, 122:23
• Insider personalities (Tim Taylor): 123:30–133:41
• Radiation and health risks: 137:32–141:10

Tone & Language

Jesse Michels maintains an open-minded yet skeptical, probing tone, frequently clarifying for listeners when elements “sound crazy.” Charles Hall’s speech is detailed, technical, and earnest, occasionally self-effacing, with an undercurrent of wonder and trauma.

Conclusion

This episode presents a whirlwind of first-person testimony, speculative physics, and government conspiracy, all filtered through the unique lens of Charles Hall’s lived experience. Whether you find his claims incredible or unbelievable, his articulation and composure amidst extraordinary tales make for one of the most intriguing accounts of Area 51 and supposed extraterrestrial interaction in recent memory.

Further Reading:

• Charles Hall’s Millennial Hospitality book series
• Emil Marzak’s documentary “Walking with the Tall Whites”
• Diana Pasulka’s American Cosmic

Note:
All commentary draws strictly from Hall's own statements and experiences, per his explicit policy of not commenting on others’ accounts or classified materials.