American Alchemy with Jesse Michels

Episode: “I Was Face to Face With An Alien For 4 Minutes!”

Guests: Dr. Italo Venturelli (Neurosurgeon), Dr. Armando Fortunato (Forensic Pathologist), Carlos de Souza (Pilot, Witness), James Fox (UFO Investigator)

Date: January 31, 2026

Episode Overview

This landmark edition of American Alchemy dives into the astonishing events of the 1996 Varginha, Brazil UFO incident. Host Jesse Michels leads an in-depth investigation featuring first-hand testimonies from:

• Carlos de Souza—who witnessed the crash of an unknown craft, handled its remarkable debris, and faced immediate military and “men in black” intervention.
• Dr. Italo Venturelli—a highly respected neurosurgeon who claims direct, minutes-long contact with a living non-human entity in a hospital ICU.
• Dr. Armando Fortunato—the forensic pathologist who performed the autopsy on military officer Marco Cherese, believed to have died after contact with the alleged being, presenting an anomalous bacterial infection.
• James Fox—documentary filmmaker and chief investigator into the Varginha case for over 15 years.

Through comprehensive, unedited dialogue, listeners are invited to confront the overwhelming accumulation of eye-witness accounts, physical evidence (and its mysterious disappearance), official secrecy, and the social ramifications for those who come forward.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Varginha Incident: Setting the Scene

• The Crash: In January 1996, witnesses reported a cigar-/Tic Tac-shaped craft in distress over Brazil’s Varginha region. The craft emitted smoke and crashed near a rural road ([05:47]-[13:47]).
• Immediate Response: Military convoys rapidly secured the scene and removed witnesses. Debris described as “memory metal” (light, foil-like, instantly returning to shape) was briefly handled by Carlos ([13:01]-[14:06]).
• Suppression & Threats: Soon after, “men in black”—tall, intimidating agents with detailed personal knowledge—threatened Carlos into silence ([17:01]-[18:22]). Ongoing surveillance and bureaucratic harassment followed.

Memorable Quote:

"He pointed a finger straight in my face and said, just a word of advice: You didn't see anything. You don't know anything. If you open your mouth to anyone about this, you're going to have serious problems for the rest of your life."
— Carlos de Souza ([17:26])

2. The Hospital Encounters: Human-Alien Contact

• Admission to Hospital: Multiple witnesses (including the chief neurosurgeon) attest that a living, non-human entity was treated at Hospital Regional in Varginha ([86:26]-[87:45]).
• Dr. Italo Venturelli’s Testimony:
  • Called by junior surgeon Marcos Vinicius to assess a mysterious patient, Dr. Venturelli describes spending 3–4 minutes face-to-face with a calm, humanoid being: child-sized, large “teardrop”-shaped lilac eyes, white skin, no hair, three fingers and an opposable thumb ([93:53]-[96:19], [102:40]-[103:13]).
  • The being radiated composure and intelligence, appearing to understand its situation completely ([94:00]-[96:32], [106:50]-[107:24]).
  • No pain or distress, no foul smell, and only minor medical intervention (likely just sutures) were required ([101:25]-[105:46]).
• The Hospital Video: Dr. Venturelli and several colleagues viewed a brief, black-and-white video of the entity post-surgery. The tape has since vanished, possibly lost or stolen after the surgeon’s death ([96:44]-[130:46]).
• Institutional Open Secret: Hospital staff—including nurses—a nurse admits to being present and corroborates others’ accounts ([87:02]-[87:40], [42:32]-[42:58]).

Notable Quotes:

“It looked at me with a very beautiful gaze... that left a lasting impression. I usually say that from then on, it feels like you turn into a different person.”
— Dr. Italo Venturelli ([95:23])

“Time slows down... the feeling was that he understood what was happening. He wasn't afraid. He was highly intelligent, at least more than I was.”
— Dr. Venturelli ([106:50])

3. The Aftermath: Military, Suppression, and Social Fallout

• Men in Black & Surveillance: After sharing his story with a local researcher, Carlos experienced mysterious phone tapping, tax audits, and unmarked car stakeouts ([49:02]-[49:55]). Reminders not to talk persisted for years.
• Media Ridicule: National TV repeatedly mocked the incident. Many witnesses, including Carlos, became the target of community derision and family shame ([29:31]-[29:46]).
• Lasting Trauma: Carlos describes decades of emotional distress, the need to protect his family, but resolution from eventual vindication as more evidence surfaced ([53:45]-[58:47]).

4. Chain of Custody & Evidence

• Physical Debris: Pieces of the craft were forcibly taken from Carlos by military on site ([13:47]-[14:06], [31:31]). Laboratory analysis of tree/soil samples indicated effects from “unknown chemical products” ([23:38]-[24:57]).
• Missing Video: The lost hospital surgery recording is considered the “smoking gun.” Multiple attempts to retrieve it from the late surgeon’s estate have failed ([96:44]-[130:46]).
• Site Alteration: For 26 years, the crash site remained untouched, until post-documentary, when tons of earth were inexplicably graded and removed ([64:37]-[66:37]).

Notable Quote:

“I'd like an explanation for why for 26 years not a single straw was removed from that place. Then after 26 years, James documentary comes out, and they go there and remove more than 30 meters of Earth... If they have nothing to hide, why do that?”
— Carlos de Souza ([83:06])

5. The Death of Marco Cherese: Forensic Evidence

• Incident: Military Police Officer Marco Cherese, said to have physically apprehended the being, died days later from a violent, bizarre infection ([182:53]-[190:11]).
• Autopsy Findings: Dr. Armando Fortunato and renowned pathologist Dr. Giannini found a virulent, rapidly acting strain of bacteria—rare but known on Earth, never seen to act in this way. Speculation persists that it was either acquired from the entity, or was an heretofore unidentified strain ([186:00]-[214:53]).
• Calls for Exhumation: Dr. Giannini, approaching 90, urges further study, including exhuming Cherese’s remains for DNA and bacteriological analysis ([188:36]-[220:19]).
• Correlation with Zoo Animals: Multiple zoo animals reportedly died anomalously that week, with unknown causes. Possibility raised of cross-contamination ([210:44]-[213:28]).

6. Abduction Reports and Regression Testimony

• Carlos de Souza’s Regression: Hypnotic regression suggested “mental contact” with the being, who communicated reassurance and intentionally suppressed his memory of the event, though Carlos admits this remains unverifiable, more speculative ([68:59]-[76:43]).
  • The being allegedly transmitted: “Calm down, everything is fine. Go away, stay calm. You can go. Thank you for worrying, but we're fine.” ([70:51])

7. Philosophical Reflections & Social Risk

• Witness Motivation: None have profited; all report significant personal, financial, and social cost. Their stories remain consistent across decades ([38:13]-[38:56], [54:07]-[56:43]).
• Professional & Religious Conflict: Fear for jobs, licenses, and community standing kept doctors and witnesses silent for years ([136:21]-[169:04]).
• Clinical Perspective: The doctors emphasize the routine, clinical way they processed the experience, the emotional aftershock, and the gentle, non-threatening presence of the entity ([119:54]-[121:44]).
• Theological/Philosophical Musings: Across guests, the notion recurs that Earth may not be unique, and that visitation could be benign, not hostile ([59:46]-[60:24], [169:15]).

Notable Quotes & Emotional Highlights

• On the being’s demeanor and intelligence:

  "It looked at me with a very beautiful gaze, not a judgmental look, not a look of fear. It had the look of someone who understands very well what is going on."
  — Dr. Italo Venturelli ([95:23])

• On trauma and ridicule:

  "I was harassed a lot. I was ridiculed... but when it comes from family, cousins, relatives, that hurts."
  — Carlos de Souza ([34:09])

• On mental contact (regression):

  "The creature was speaking mentally, saying, calm down, everything is fine. Go away. It's dangerous for you here. Don't come closer. We're fine. Stay calm."
  — Carlos de Souza ([70:51])

• On secrecy and professional risk:

  "We're afraid of everything: being attacked, being murdered, of religious fanatics coming after us. It's not so easy to talk. People insult us on the Internet."
  — Dr. Italo Venturelli ([137:43])

• On evidence tampering:

  "After 26 years, James documentary comes out and they go there and remove more than 30 meters of earth. If they have nothing to hide, why do that?"
  — Carlos de Souza ([83:06])

Key Timestamps

• Witness counts / Case summary / “Modern Roswell” comparison: [01:10]-[01:23], [31:04]-[31:43]
• Crash account by Carlos de Souza: [05:47]-[18:22]
• Men in Black encounter: [17:01]-[18:22]
• Physical description/handling of craft debris: [13:47]-[14:06]
• Arrival at crash site and confrontation with military: [11:54]-[14:06]
• Linking the crash to the hospital and entity: [20:54]-[21:56]
• Local witness corroboration & social impact: [25:36]-[29:46], [34:09]
• Dr. Italo Venturelli’s encounter—Description of the being: [93:53]-[96:32], [102:40]-[103:41]
• Emotional effect on Dr. Venturelli: [119:54]-[121:44]
• The missing hospital video: [96:44]-[130:46]
• Autopsy of Marco Cherese, discussion of anomalous bacteria: [182:53]-[214:53]
• Discussion of crash site alteration/cover-up: [64:37]-[66:37], [83:06]
• Speculative and psychological dimensions (hypnosis, memory wipe): [68:59]-[76:43]
• Philosophical reflections and conclusion: [218:14]-[219:53]

Final Reflections

The episode offers a rare, cohesive, and multidimensional account from diverse, credible witnesses—each bearing witness to extraordinary phenomena, suffering tangible repercussions, and driven by a conviction in the importance of public truth. The Varginha incident, as reconstructed here, positions itself as a pivotal, well-documented case in the annals of UFO history.

Key Takeaways

• The Varginha case boasts an impressive chain of direct and indirect eyewitnesses, from pilots, farmers, and nurses to credentialed doctors.
• Multiple lines of evidence—eyewitness testimony, mysterious “memory metal" debris, anomalous health effects, laboratory and forensic findings—corroborate core claims.
• Suppression, ridicule, and professional risk have kept many silent—but have also, through gentle persistence, yielded a consistent record spanning decades.
• The emotional, even spiritual, impact on credible professionals is profound—raising not just questions of extraterrestrial life, but of humanity’s place, responsibilities, and capacity for open-mindedness.

For further details, viewers are encouraged to watch both Moment of Contact documentaries by James Fox, which contain extended visual materials and interviews referenced in this episode.