JFK & UFOs: Who Actually Killed Our President?

Summary

Title: American Alchemy
Host/Author: Jesse Michels
Episode: JFK & UFOs: Who Actually Killed Our President?
Release Date: May 31, 2025

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Overview

In this gripping episode of American Alchemy, host Jesse Michels explores the intricate and controversial theories surrounding the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. Titled "JFK & UFOs: Who Actually Killed Our President?," the episode delves into newly released declassified documents, uncovering a complex web of CIA operations, Mafia involvement, and potential extraterrestrial connections. Through an engaging dialogue with expert guests Jeremy Riss and John Mack, listeners are taken on a deep dive into one of America's most enduring mysteries.

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Introduction to the JFK Assassination Files [00:12]

The episode begins with Danny highlighting the recent release of thousands of new pages of declassified records by the National Archives concerning JFK's assassination. He poignantly asks, "80,000 pages of documents is a lot to sift through. Can you just tell us who killed Kennedy?" ([00:20]).

Quote:

"80,000 pages of documents is a lot to sift through. Can you just tell us who killed Kennedy?" – Danny [00:20]

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The Complexity of the Declassified Files [00:26]

Jeremy Riss emphasizes the overwhelming volume of the newly released files, likening the search for meaningful information to "looking for a needle in the haystack where the needle is missing" ([01:57]). He references Brett Weinstein's analogy and mentions President Trump's superficial response to the release, indicating minimal progress in uncovering the truth.

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Operation S Force and Mafia Connections [06:25]

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on Operation S Force, a covert team originally assembled to assassinate Fidel Castro, Che Guevara, and other anti-communist leaders. Danny reveals that Lee Harvey Oswald was part of this operation, trained by the CIA and Mafia figures under Richard Nixon’s 5412 Committee. This collaboration aimed to eliminate communist threats and maintain American dominance in the Western Hemisphere.

Quote:

"The S Force to kill Castro, in short, Castro and Che Guevara and the others, that they were rabid anti-communist Cubanos that had fled from Cuba..." – John Mack [05:24]

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Covert Funding and Heroin Smuggling [08:00]

The funding for Operation S Force came from heroin smuggling orchestrated by Mafia don Santos Trafficante Jr. Profits from these illicit activities were funneled into purchasing weapons and explosives, enabling covert operations against communist targets. This mechanism mirrors later operations like Iran-Contra, highlighting a long-standing pattern of covert funding.

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Training and Deployment in Mexico [09:18]

Members of Operation S Force were trained at Clint Murchison Jr.’s ranch in Oaxaca, Mexico. Here, they practiced a triangular crossfire technique designed to take out high-profile targets like Fidel Castro. Danny provides detailed insights into the preparation and execution of these assassination plots, emphasizing the meticulous planning involved.

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Kennedy’s Attempts to Denuclearize [43:40]

The conversation shifts to JFK’s efforts to denuclearize and his secret communications with Soviet Premier Khrushchev. Danny explains how Kennedy sought to prevent nuclear war by proposing mutual disarmament, a move that threatened the entrenched interests within the CIA and other agencies responsible for maintaining the nuclear arsenal.

Quote:

"He was trying to denuclearize entirely a mutual disarmament..." – Jeremy Riss [43:44]

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Operation Mongoose and Escalation [63:03]

Operation Mongoose evolved from Operation 40, intensifying CIA actions against Castro despite JFK's peace initiatives. Danny details how rogue elements within the CIA defied presidential orders, leading to clandestine operations that ultimately contributed to JFK’s assassination. This internal conflict underscores the deep-seated resistance to Kennedy’s reforms.

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The Grassy Knoll and Real Assassination Events [67:39]

The discussion delves into the specifics of JFK’s assassination, identifying key figures like Rip Robertson and Ed Lansdale as part of the S Force present during the event. John Mack points out the presence of other suspicious individuals, such as the "Umbrella Man," and notes alterations in the physical environment (e.g., painted lines on the curb) that suggest premeditation.

Quote:

"The two men on the grassy knoll... They're the two men on the grassy knoll. Who were they?" – Jeremy Riss [00:35]

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Connections to Larger Conspiracy Theories [84:54 – 90:57]

The episode explores broader conspiracy theories involving global finance, the Knights of Malta, and the manipulation of covert operations through organizations like the CIA and Brown Brothers Harriman. Danny discusses the historical context, including early 20th-century efforts to control European economies through illicit activities, linking these to present-day conspiracies surrounding JFK's assassination.

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Unveiling UFO Connections [130:00 – 160:54]

In the latter part of the episode, the conversation pivots to potential connections between UFO phenomena and covert government operations. Danny shares anecdotes about remote viewing programs and alleged extraterrestrial interactions at facilities like S4 and Area 51. These discussions suggest that the JFK assassination may intertwine with broader extraterrestrial narratives, adding another layer of complexity to the conspiracy theories.

Quote:

"I think that an element of the Knights of Malta have something to do with everything." – Danny [134:17]

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Concluding Insights and Future Disclosure [161:13 – End]

As the episode nears its end, the hosts discuss upcoming legislative efforts aimed at further disclosing classified information related to UFOs and JFK’s assassination. They express optimism that ongoing Senate bills will facilitate greater transparency, despite anticipated resistance from entrenched interests within the intelligence community. The episode concludes with a call to action, encouraging listeners to stay informed and support disclosure initiatives.

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Notable Quotes

• Danny: "I don't want to point my finger at anyone in a case like that. People running up the hill alongside Elm." [00:26]
• John Mack: "They're rabid anti communist Cubanos... It's all a side product of deception, duplicity." [05:24]
• Danny: "They were going to blame it on him, who was a Cuban operations guy so that they could then justify invading the army island." [79:43]
• John Mack: "They had three yellow painted lines... marking the kill zone." [83:27]

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Conclusion

This episode of American Alchemy offers a comprehensive and provocative examination of the JFK assassination, intertwining it with intricate CIA operations, Mafia connections, and UFO theories. Through detailed discussions and expert insights, Jesse Michels and his guests challenge the conventional narrative, inviting listeners to reconsider the multifaceted dimensions of one of America’s most significant historical events.

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Note: The timestamps used in this summary are approximations based on the provided transcript and are intended to highlight key moments in the discussion.

Transcript

[Danny]

The President's car is now turning onto Elm street, and it will be only a matter of minutes before he arrives at the trademark. It appears as though something has happened in the motorcade route.

[Jeremy Riss]

The JFK files were just released.

[John Mack]

The National Archives released thousands of new pages of declassified records related to President John F. Kennedy's assassination.

[Danny]

80,000 pages of documents is a lot to sift through. Can you just tell us who killed Kennedy?

[Jeremy Riss]

Who should be held culpable?

[Danny]

I don't want to point my finger at anyone in a case like that. People running up the hill alongside Elm.

[Jeremy Riss]

Street, who were the. They're the two men on the grassy knoll. Who were they?

[John Mack]

This guy's like a radio man. He looks like a Cuban. He's out of place. And he's sitting right next to the Umbrella man.

[Danny]

There's Rip Robertson. Photographs of Rip Robertson, who's the field operations commander for the S Force, standing right there in Dilley Plaza. You got Ed Lansdale, photographs of Lansdale sitting right there and his wife identifying. The thing that I find to be so special about what we now know is the relationship that Oswald had with all these guys. I'm just a patsy, President. All of this is a side product of deception, duplicity.

[John Mack]

And to think that he was alone, taken completely by surprise by this nonsense. It's nonsense, man. It was all set up by the highest levels, and they got away with it for 62 years.

[Danny]

Different parts of the brain have different activities.

[Jeremy Riss]

But you know that, don't you?

[John Mack]

Maybe you should interview me.

[Jeremy Riss]

You know, the JFK files were just released. The National Archives a short time ago.

[John Mack]

Released thousands of new pages of declassified records related to President John F. Kennedy's assassination.

[Jeremy Riss]

So you have 80,000 documents that require a lot of, you know, artificial intelligence overlay, optical character recognition to make any sense of. Even then, I think very few people made any sense of them. I think they left more confused. There's a great quote by Brett Weinstein where it's like looking through the JFK files is like looking for a needle in the haystack where the needle is missing. And even President Trump, when he was asked point blank who killed JFK after the file drop, he said, we released the files. We did a historic thing or whatever.

[Danny]

80,000 pages of documents is a lot to sift through. Can you just tell us who killed Kennedy? Well, you know, I was given the task of releasing that because many presidents have gone through it and they haven't released. And I said, release. We even released Social Security numbers. I didn't want anything deleted. They said, sir, what about Social Security?

[Jeremy Riss]

But he kind of sidestepped the, you know, point blank question is who should be held culpable? And I don't think anybody has a good answer to that after that file release. I'm here with Jeremy Riss, alien scientist. You've been making epic videos for 20 years on not only UFOs and aliens, but often the science, the secret science behind all this stuff, along with sprinkle in some of your favorite conspiracies and it's, I can't wait to speak to you, man. We've had some phone conversations. We don't agree on everything.

[John Mack]

No, don't have to.

[Jeremy Riss]

We don't have to. That's the point of having conversations. And I'm excited to have you, man. Thank you for being here.

[John Mack]

For sure, man. Thanks for having me. It's great to finally be here.

[Jeremy Riss]

Absolutely. All right. Well, there's so many jumping off points. There were just these JFK disclosures, right? Like what, 80,000 doc, how many documents? Like a whole bunch.

[John Mack]

And then there's, you know, how many, how many things they didn't write down. You know, you think like you're planning to murder somebody, you don't write stuff down and keep a log and a whole bunch of incriminating evidence on yourself. So there's a lot of cool stuff in the documents that have come out so far. But you know, really, you learn more from talking to long term assassination researchers.

[Jeremy Riss]

Who'Ve been way more. I feel like people come out, came out of this way more confused than.

[John Mack]

A lot of people did. Yeah, there's a lot of the media use it as an opportunity to once again, you know, hype up this idea that, oh, there's nothing in the documents, there's nothing new here. This is all just conspiracy theories, you know, the typical Operation Mockingbird mantras and whatnot. But yeah, really the JFK research community has cracked this case and they've cracked it for, you know, numero number of years. I mean, Jim Mars was one of the first with Crossfire. That was the book that Oliver Stone's JFK was based on. And that really laid the foundation for a lot of the investigations that followed. And there's been decades and decades and tons of people have dug into this from every possible angle. And now it's, it's just come out that, you know, Priscilla McMillan, who interviewed Lee when he went to Russia and also befriended Marina Oswald and wrote her autobiography for her, she's CIA agent, she's a witting CIA asset. And that came out in one of the things that was revealed in the documents, which shows the level that they went through to get ahead of the sources and the story and be like, all right, we're going to put our people in so that anyone getting information about this from the sources has to go through us, basically.

[Jeremy Riss]

So I know you to be, you know, as deep on the topic as maybe anybody alive, and you have a very coherent narrative. So what do you think happened?

[Danny]

Who.

[Jeremy Riss]

Who killed jfk?

[Danny]

The. Actually, the shot that was fired from the knoll that killed him was. Was Morales, David Morales. And. And he was called the Mexican. They're kind of different nicknames they had for him. But he was the crack shot out of the team, the S Force team that had been put together to kill Fidel Ca Castro. And it was a triangular fire team plan, you know, to have three gunmen crossfire at a moving target. That was the plan. That was the structure that they'd set up and that they trained down in Oaxaca, Mexico, you know, at the ranch of Clint Murchison Jr. They trained them up down there to do that, to kill not only Fidel Castro, but Raul Castro and Che Guevara and five other commandantes they had on the list.

[Jeremy Riss]

So this was the 5412 Committee, which was run by Nixon under Eisenhower. He's setting up these sort of covert operations to take out Che Guevara and Castro. But then they get used in the assassination of jfk. How does that occur?

[Danny]

Well, what happened is that the people on the task force, the people that were recruited to be on the. The S force to kill Castro, in short, Castro and Che Guevara and the others, that they were rabid anti communist Cubanos that had fled from Cuba in January of 1959 when Batista was overthrown. And they all fled up to Florida and camped out basically in Miami and Tampa primarily. And a lot of them were Mafia gunmen that worked for Santos Trafficanti, who was the don of the Mafia in Havana and ran the gambling casinos, the houses of prostitution. But most importantly, the heroin smuggling that was coming in from Southeast Asia, because that was critical, because the portion of the profits from the heroin sales that were going on through the Mafia run by Santos Trafficanti in the Gambinos, that they were running the heroin into the United States. And a portion of the profits that were being skimmed off that sale were being used to purchase military equipment and explosives to smuggle through the kuintang in China.

[Jeremy Riss]

Whoa. So this is pre Iran Contra, but The same sort of architecture.

[Danny]

Oh, yeah, same thing.

[Jeremy Riss]

Move.

[Danny]

And that they were. That's where they got the idea to keep doing it, you know, so that they. They had the whole thing set up where the portion of the heroin income was being used to purchase the explosives and weapons. There was a company set up with offices in Havana and in Miami. That was the Sea Supply Corporation, they called it. And on the face of it is the Sea. Oh, it's a Sea Supply Corporation. Some kind of maritime thing. It was a Southeast Asian supply company run by Paul Halliwell, the full time Central Intelligence Agency employee run the operation.

[Jeremy Riss]

So he was getting the money to the Kuomintang.

[Danny]

He was getting. He was actually using the money from the heroin smuggling a portion of it to purchase the weapons and explosives here. And then they would fly them from here. And that was that whole Terry and the pirates thing, what they call flying the hump. That they. They had this whole operation that a fellow named William D. Pauley was. It worked for Prentice Aviation and they were providing the airplanes and they were smuggling them and flying them into China. So there was a. And you know, Claire Boothe Luce was involved in it.

[Jeremy Riss]

Henry Luce's wife.

[Danny]

That's right. And it was in Dulles was involved. They were all involved in that. That's what they call the China lobby. That was that whole group that right from way back had figured that they were planning to really turn the development operations of their economic investments into Asia.

[Jeremy Riss]

And Henry Luce then starts Life in Time magazine, which publishes the Zapruder film with the missing frames of the JFK assassination.

[Danny]

That's right.

[Jeremy Riss]

So that's a very interesting connection as well.

[Danny]

Which in his eyes, you know, I mean, I know the guy that got the film.

[Jeremy Riss]

Dick Billings.

[Danny]

Yeah, Dick Billings. And knew all about how they. They brought it to Rochester and doctored it. He sat and told me about the whole thing.

[Jeremy Riss]

That's wild. So he talks about them doctoring the film and. And taking certain frames out and stuff. And did the frames involve David Morales and the other.

[Danny]

No, it's just that made it clear that he was being. He was shot from the front.

[Jeremy Riss]

Okay.

[Danny]

You could tell from that thing. So that they reversed the actual frames of the film.

[Jeremy Riss]

And then the guy who let out the Zapruder film is a guy named Charles Douglas Jackson, who basically ran psychological warfare for the United States. He was in the Psychological Strategy Board with Gordon Gray and some of these other guys. And he let out the Zapruder film in Life magazine, which he was involved with, but with missing frames and so.

[John Mack]

And that was a big thing. The other guy that ran the psychological warfare program for JM Wave Station was George Joannidis. And it was recently came out that, you know, these files prove that he lied about his involvement with the program. Because they asked him who ran the program. He said, I don't know. I'll have to look and check for you. And he never got back. They never got back to that question. Never resolved that. Well, he's the one that ran the program. How do you not know who ran the program? You ran the program and he lied about it to Congress and in front of. And the whole entire of America. So that one. That one came out. That was it. That was a huge one. Anslinger, too. That. Not Anslinger. Angleton. James Jesus Angleton. And he was running this whole spying program, the male intercept program. And this guy Reuben Ephron was in charge of that. And Reuben Ephron is in the files. And they ask him about, do you know Reuben Ephron? And he says, no, that's a lie. You hired Reuben Ephron and he ran the spy program for you that was reading Lee Harvey Oswald's mail and spying on this dude for years because he had a 201 file into the CIA since 1959. So they were. They have a massive file on Lee Harvey Oswald following all his actions. And to think that he was a lone nut and that we didn't know. We had no idea. And we were taken completely by surprise by this nonsense. It's nonsense, man. It was all set up by the highest levels, and they got away with it for 62 years.

[Danny]

But I don't want it to be too confusing to everybody. It's easier kind of having in a chronological structure to understand how this thing happened, because it's a. That the entire operation was set up way back in 1960, you know, when. When, when. When Fidel Castro and Che Guevara and the guys overthrew Batista and drove them out. In January of 1959, Richard Nixon, as the Vice President under Eisenhower and the chair of the 5412 committee, the supervised covert operations, he sent all kinds of communications to Fidel Castro saying, look, you are fine. You've overthrown Batista. Okay, it's a deal. What we want to do is make sure you don't have any diplomatic relations with China or Russia. You can't have. And he said, you can't have any kind of relations with him at all. And Fidel Castro said, screw you. Who do you think you're talking to here, you know, and, you know, they. They waved the old Monroe Doctrine flag at him and so. Which he didn't give a crap about, you know, and so Nixon got really PO'd with him. And so he then set up this covert operation which was called originally Operation 40. Okay. And then he recruited, naturally enough, he recruited a whole bunch of. A whole bunch of Batista supporters who supported the fascist authoritarian regime down there and worked directly with Santos Trafficanti because Santos Trafficanti was the business partner of Batista and Paul Helliwell in running the heroin operations. And it was just a means of COVID funding for the operations to oppose China. To oppose. Was Mao Zedong.

[Jeremy Riss]

This is amazing.

[Danny]

Yeah. And they didn't want to tell Congress about it at all because they didn't think they could muster enough support from Congress to actually support covert operations against Mao Zedong. So they did it totally covertly. The CIA set up this entire operation to be supporting Chiang Kai Shek in the so called nationalist forces. And the chief of security for Chiang Kai Shek was. Was the head of the Green Gang, the major heroin operation in. In China.

[Jeremy Riss]

No way.

[Danny]

Oh, yeah.

[Jeremy Riss]

Whoa.

[Danny]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Riss]

That is wild.

[Danny]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Riss]

Okay, so in 5960 time frame, you have the 5412 Commission and Committee, rather you have. Of which Nixon is ahead. And he's sort of, you know, running kind of national security. He partners with mafia dons, like traffic on day.

[Danny]

Well, actually. Actually he avoided that one by one step. What he did is recruited Howard Hughes. Yeah, he called Howard Hughes because Howard Hughes was a consultant to the 5412 Committee. He would. He had designed the Spruce Goose, which became the prototype for the C5, a cargo plane that could fly, you know, major covert operations in. And equipment and stuff. And he also. He also designed the Glomar Explorer, that ship that could pick up Russian submarines off the bottom of the ocean and stuff if they fell through, and a couple other extraordinarily sensitive programs that he was working on.

[Jeremy Riss]

Like what?

[Danny]

Yeah, I can't tell you. I can't tell you that because of the way.

[Jeremy Riss]

I know you've said this before to me about Howard Hughes. And then I always goes at the UFO stuff.

[Danny]

You go, no, no, no, it wasn't that. It was.

[Jeremy Riss]

What else could be the substantive. Is it like time travel or something?

[Danny]

No, no, no, no. Nothing esoteric like that.

[Jeremy Riss]

You're a man of the people, Danny. We need to know. Yeah, as evidenced by Tim Dillon's recent and masterful interview with CNN Legacy Media can be a bit problematic. It's more sensationalist and divided than ever. They ask leading questions, brainwashed by their social milieus. And that's why people are flocking to podcasts. But podcasts have their own limits. They're often three hours long. They're not super efficient. They aren't always fact checked. They're sort of a hybrid of entertainment and news. So how do I stay informed amidst this backdrop? I started using my new favorite service, Ground News, a tool designed for both skeptics and truth seekers. Like many in this community, Ground News is an app and website created by a former NASA engineer to tackle a problem we all face how distorted the information is that we consume every day. In the modern post truth era, Ground News gathers coverage from over 50,000 sources worldwide, organizes the stories by topic, and even breaks down the bias and ownership behind each perspective so you know what you're getting. With features like the bias bar and factuality score, it's easy to see how different outlets frame and spin the same story. When you eat certain foods, you want to see the ingredients list. This is the same thing, but for content and news. For example, when I was researching those mysterious drone sightings in New Jersey in December, Ground News gave me instant access to over 200 articles, helping me uncover every angle from the facts to the spin. Spoiler alert. I don't think they were just FAA approved research drones. So if you're tired of echo chambers and one sided narratives, Ground News is ultimate tool for staying informed and making better decisions. You can follow your favorite topics and compare coverage to find the most credible sources. And for a limited time you can get the same plan I use every day for nearly half the price. Just go to Ground News Jessie Michaels Michaels with no A or scan this QR code to save 40% on their unlimited access vantage plan. Or gift it to someone you know and have more informed discussions and hopefully chill out about those drones. I only promote brands I vet and I think you'll find them just as valuable as I do. Ground News, the truth is out there. You just need the right tools to find it.

[Danny]

It's. It's one of those, it's one of those kind of things that. One of the very rare things that I, I tend to agree that it would be good to tell people about it.

[Jeremy Riss]

Sure.

[Danny]

You know, it would generate all kinds of damage and it wouldn't really benefit anybody. Got was the bottom line is. But because of that he trusted Hughes and so he contacts him using the red phone, the secure phone which he had for the 5412 committee communications called Howard Hughes and Traffic Conte told us all this. This all came directly from Trafficante about how the whole thing happened and actually told us the day on which Richard Nixon called on the phone. Howard Hughes was the day after Nelson Rockefeller withdrew from the 1960 Republican presidential primary race against Nixon. Because as soon as he withdrew, Nixon knew he was going to be the nominee for the Republican Party in 1960, and he was sure he was going to win. Right. So he then. He then took upon himself the authority basically of the incoming president to contact Hughes and ask him to put together an assassination.

[Jeremy Riss]

Why did Rockefeller step down right then? I don't quite.

[Danny]

He just withdrew. He withdrew from the primary base for the.

[Jeremy Riss]

Was that a coincidence?

[Danny]

No, no. But what it did is it freed up Nixon to realize he was going to be the nominee for the Republican Party. And so he was therefore confident he was getting ready to be president.

[Jeremy Riss]

Yeah.

[Danny]

So he started exercising the kind of a power that a president might do. And so he took onto himself this kind of authority to actually reach out and have Howard Hughes set up an assassination team. Said, but you got to keep it completely away from the White House, so you can't. You just got to do it yourself. And so what Howard Hughes did is sent for one of his lawyers that he had Bob Mayhew and had Mayhew. He assigned Mayhew to. Here's the job. The President kept. They started referring to him as a president in their communications traffic. County said so.

[Jeremy Riss]

Oh, my God. They kept referring to him to Nixon as a president.

[Danny]

Yeah, they kept referring to him as the president.

[Jeremy Riss]

No, he was a vp. No.

[Danny]

Yeah, yeah. It said, you know, that he wants. He wants this done. He wants to keep it away from the White House. And so. So Bob Mayhew went to see. Because, you know, Howard Hughes was in Las Vegas. He was hanging out at the mother. Was the. Whether it was the Flamingo. Flamingo or the. Or the Sands, one of the two. Anyway, he was up in the big pet house there, and it was one of the mob hotels, Right. And so he knew that they were there. And so Bob Mayhew went to see Johnny Roselli, who was the bag man, you know, for. For the. The Mafia skim the. Skimming the cash off those casinos to be used. Right. And so his principal, the guy in charge of him was Sam Giancana out of Chicago. And so when Bob Mayhew went to Johnny Roselli and said, look, you guys have your own reason for wanting to get rid of this Castro dude. You know, he shut down all your casinos, shut down your whorehouses, he said, and very importantly, they've cut off the whole heroin supply, okay? And so you got your own reasons for wanting to get rid of him. So, you know that the Nixon is assuming that you'll do this for us. And so Johnny Roselli said, well, you know, I don't have the authority to make a decision like that. We're going to have to talk to Sam Giancana. And so they went together, you know, Johnny Roselli and Bob Mayhew went to Chicago and met with Sam Giancana and pitched the proposal to him. And Sam Giancana realized that, you know, doing a favor like this for the President was going to get them a lot of potential goodwill, right? And so. And get. And keep them, keep the feds off their back. So he was agreeing in principle to do it. He said, but, you know, but this isn't up to me. That's Santos Trafficanti's territory. That's down in Havana. He's the Bob boss in Havana. He's. Even though he's up in Tampa now, because he. He left Cuba, he said, so we have to go talk to him. So they. They went down. They went down to see him now. They were down there about September or so. This all started around June. Around June 7th was when Rockefeller withdrew. June 7th of 1960. So between that is now early September, Johnny Roselli, Bob Mayhew, and Sam Giancana went down to Florida and at the Fontainebleau Hotel, met with Traffic Conti. And they had two meetings in which finally Traffic county tells us that. He said, you know, I agreed in principle to do this, he said, but I. I wanted to make sure that, you know, he said it wasn't some kind of brain fart. He said, you know, on the part of. Of Bob Mayhew or even Howard Hughes, wanted to make certain that this was coming from the President. That's what he. That's how he termed it, he said. And so that they had a third meeting, and a guy, another guy comes to the meeting at the. At the Fountain Blue Hotel, using the nom de Guerre Mr. Ed. And it was Sheffield Edwards, who was the chief of security of the Central Intelligence Agency under. Under Dulles, okay? And under the Eisenhower Bush administration. But so he comes to the meeting and. And gives them the green light to go ahead and do this. And so that's. So what Sam. What Trafficanti did is he recruited guys from his people that were from Havana, these Gunmen that he had down there that were enforcers who had fled with him to, to Florida in January of 59 and had gotten recruited by, by Richard Nixon and the CIA to run covert operations against Cuba. Because when, when Fidel Castro just finally summed his nose at, at Nixon and said, you know, screw you, I'm, I'm going to have relations with anybody I want, so I'll have diplomatic relations with Russia and China, you know, therefore, quote, violating the Monroe Doctrine, you know, of allowing a foreign power to start having influence inside our hemisphere, you know, or our zone of influence. And so what happened is Richard Nixon had mounted this covert operation and he'd recruited all of these people that were trafficanti gunmen and mobsters basically, but virulent anti communists, you know, and we're all in, in around Miami. They had the 2506 Brigade, they had Alpha 66. There were a bunch of these kind of, it's unfair to call them covens, but I mean they were, they were these, these gangs like that were there that were engaged in covert operations. And so they thought that they were kind of invested with kind of a certain kind of authority on the part of the federal government because they're paid by the CIA to do this. And they set up these, these bases. They set one up on no Name Key, they set one up on Swan island, they put one in the Everglades. Then they had two of them at Lake Pontchartrain over in Louisiana, one on the southern coast of the, of Lake Pontchartrain, one on the northern coast. And they set up these, these paramilitary bases in these rabidly anti communists pro batista, you know, Traffic Conti gunmen, a lot of them, you know, were covert operators working under the auspice of the CIA to run these covert operations. So Traffic, Connie says, okay, Nixon wants me to put together this assassination team. I'm going to take my people who are working with the CIA, but in a completely different capacity just to run covert operations. What I'm going to do is recruit 15 of them. I'll hand pick them and we'll put them into this special S force they call it. And that's what they did. And they would send private planes to go pick them up, you know, at these five different paramilitary bases. They would pick up a couple of the guys at each one and they would fly them to Fort Huachuca in Arizona and big electronic surveillance operations that they've got going there in Fort Huachuca. And so they bring them there and then they would sign in and Then they would just disappear off the records. And then they were flown down to Oaxaca, Mexico to the ranch of Clint Murchison Jr. Very wealthy skion of the, this oil fortune down there. Who his father, his father owned the Dallas Texans football team. You know, cowboys. Yeah, well, later cowboys was Texas at the time.

[Jeremy Riss]

Okay, interesting.

[Danny]

That's who they were. And you know, horse racing and rich people and stuff. And so they had this big ranch down in Oaxaca. So they set up a triangular fire team base down there to, to practice shooting a moving target from three different locations to get a triangular crossfire onto the site, onto the target. And they were training them. And Carl Jenkins was, was brought in from the CIA to train them on this under ZR Rifle. It was the code name for the program. But they, this was a whole separate thing and it was not even known to many people at all. This was going on because they were trying to keep it away from the White House. So that operation is going on and the way they funded it was from the skim of money off the casinos. And they would skim the money off the casinos. They would put the, the cash into these brand new, big expensive suitcases and put them in the trunk of brand new Cadillac automobiles and they would drive them. And I know the guy that sold them the, the Cadillacs because he had the big dealership in Vegas. Anyway, and anyway, then I interviewed him at length about it, you know, so they drive, they drive the cars through New Orleans and Marcelo was there and they did the audit on all the, all the money to keep track of how much money they were moving. And then they would repack it and they would drive them into Florida, deposit it in the Miami national bank of Meyer Lansky, and then they would wire a portion of the money down into the Banco International down in Mexico City and they put it into this account by this lawyer by name of Ogario, had the account down in the bank, and then they would pay the costs for the whole triangular fire team training base down in Oaxaca. And that's the.

[Jeremy Riss]

So how do you go from this systematic drug running, covert operation that, that ultimately is in support of the resistance in China, the Kuomintang and the, you know, Chiang Kai Shek. How do you go from that? And then this plan initially to take out, you know, Che Guevara and Castro, who are, you know, impinging upon the Monroe Doctrine to killing jfk?

[Danny]

Well, sitting President. Well, what happened is that that whole operation was going when suddenly Richard Nixon didn't get elected, John F. Kennedy of the state of Massachusetts has received for President of The United States 303 votes. Richard M. Nixon of the state of California has received 219 votes. This is the first time in 100 years that a candidate for the presidency announced the result of an election in which he was defeated and announced the victory of his opponent. All of you work in a cause that is bigger than any man's ambition, greater than any party. It is the cause of freedom, of justice and peace for all mankind. And it is in that spirit that I now declare that John F. Kennedy has been elected President of the United States and Lyndon Johnson vice President of the United States. And Kennedy comes in and they, they brief Kennedy now about the Bay of Pigs plan that they had going, but they didn't tell him about the assassination team at all.

[Jeremy Riss]

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[Danny]

And so they lure him into the, to allowing the, the invasion to go on, the attempted invasion at the Bay of Pigs. But he tells them right from the very beginning that he won't provide air cover. He won't provide any air cover and he won't, he won't provide any kind of U.S. military intervention. You know, they wanted to be able to land on the beach and basically raise the flag of free, free Cuba and then ask for US intervention and do it the old fashioned way. Yeah, you know, just send in a paramilitary operation. And Kennedy wouldn't do it. And they said, oh. He said, look, if you're telling me that the people of Cuba want to rise up against Castro because they're so unhappy with him.

[Jeremy Riss]

Yeah.

[Danny]

If they land on the beach and they raise the flag of a free Cuba, if the people all rally and toss Out Castro. Good. If you're telling me the truth that they're going to do it, you go ahead and do it. Yeah, and what happened is they had two or three, you know, B25s of these old bomber planes that were down in Nicaragua actually, that, that the Somosa, Anastasio Somosa was, was supporting them in doing this, you know, was this kind of right wing fascist dude. So the bottom line is that they were going to provide their own air cover for this. And what happened is they were in a different time zone. And so they got there an hour late after the landing and the guys had been knifed, whacked already. They sank their ammunition boat and everything, you know, so they were trapped on the beach and they all got arrested and, and the whole thing. FE Wednesday, April 19 Resistance ends. All those who are not killed are taken prisoner. And then, then Kennedy took responsibility for it. And this is where the thing starts. Kennedy took responsibility for it in the, the Cubano guys that got all arrested were upset at him for refusing not only to provide air support, but they had, you know, that in fact, General Curtis LeMay and other folks from the Joint Chiefs moved US military forces into place. They, they put naval ships with Marines in them, you know, staged them contrary to the orders of the President, you know, ordered in Marines.

[Jeremy Riss]

There was so much at the time that Curtis LeMay felt the liberty to, to do by himself. Like he, he put, apparently I didn't even know this during the Cuban Missile crisis later, obviously he put us into DEFCON 2 without the President's permission, did.

[Danny]

It'S crazy he did and, and launched the U2 or the U2 to fly over Russia to do the final retargeting, which was, and did it at a low altitude that he knew the Russians would pick it up to send them the signals. He was trying to goad them into trying to initiate a nuclear war. You know, so the, the bottom line is that all that was going on at this time and what happened is Kennedy took responsibility for it of the, the snafu. And what he did is he apologized to Khrushchev for having allowed that thing to go down and gave him, gave Khrushchev, Kennedy did his solemn promise that he would cease and desist from efforts to, to undermine the government in, in Cuba. And he went down to Cuba, he went down to Miami at the Orange bowl actually, and convened, you know, a whole meeting of all these kind of right wing Cubano refugees that had fled from there in the, the whole stadium. He apologized to them all in person, and said that he gave them his personal guarantee that the free flag of Cuba would be flying over the island by the end of his second term. And he said that to them, I can assure you that this flag will.

[Jeremy Riss]

Be returned to this brigade in a free Havana.

[Danny]

They said, okay, we got you. And he turned around and had lied to Khrushchev and actually converted Operation 40 into Operation Mongoose. That's all it did. And set up the big operation on the Miami University of Miami campus called JM Wave, this great big gigantic airplane set of hangars, and they had all the operations going on there. It was a full scale war operation going on against Cuba. And so he continued doing that. And so Khrushchev said, screw you then, and started moving missiles in. And so all this was happening, all right, in that first period from 1961. He's elected in November of 1960, comes into office in January of 1961. You know, he does all this apologizing and stuff, because it was in April of 61 that the Bay of Pigs thing came down. And so he apologizes, but he's totally pissed off, you know, at the CIA for bungling this whole operation. And the days of Allen Dulles were numbers. And so he waited all the way till the fall, September, October, you know, of. Of 60, 61, and then pushed Dulles out. But Dulles didn't leave. He didn't leave Washington. He had his whole setup over in Georgetown in his big brownstone over there. And all of the guys from the CIA were going over to meet with him, like, every day.

[Jeremy Riss]

He had like a social club. Wasn't it called the Georgetown set? Do you know what I'm talking about?

[Danny]

Yeah. Georgetown's a very. We won't get too far. It's a very interesting place. You know, with every administration, you've got these very wealthy social brownstone.

[Jeremy Riss]

Yeah.

[Danny]

Kind of old houses. I've been in a bunch of them.

[Jeremy Riss]

Yeah.

[Danny]

You know, and. And again, recently, the new administration.

[Jeremy Riss]

Yeah.

[Danny]

Has got people over there. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jeremy Riss]

I remember being in Michael Pillsbury's house, which I think was JFK's old house.

[Danny]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Riss]

In Georgetown.

[Danny]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Riss]

And just being like, this is amazing.

[Danny]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Riss]

So cool. I mean, he's the. Been a kind of lead China expert in every administration since Nixon.

[Danny]

Yeah. And it's a very elite group over there. So. So the bottom line is that, that, that, that. So the whole operation shifts over to Operation Mongoose being run out of JM Wave, and cruise ships are sending the missiles into Cuba and then they discover the missiles in there. The whole Cuban missile crisis comes down right within the past week. Unmistakable evidence has established the fact that a series of offensive missile sites is now in preparation on that imprisoned island. Goes all the way through into the, into late October. Right. And then this, this bizarre thing happens with the ufo. Right. That, that in, in. We'll just set that aside for a moment.

[Jeremy Riss]

Yeah.

[Danny]

Because, because it's, it's a very kind of comparative new piece of information. But the bottom line is that by the time they get to October 26th, the night of October 26th, they come to within like two minutes this whole thing with, with, with General Curtis LeMay trying to instigate an actual nuclear exchange with Russia saying that, look, the, the most, the, the Russia, if they launch nuclear missiles against us the most, they'll kill maybe 40 million people, you know, but we'll wipe them all out and we'll get rid of that entire scourge of communism coming out of Russia and then we'll win because we've only lost 40 million people. People and will have eliminated Russia as a threat. And that was his whole thinking, right?

[Jeremy Riss]

Yeah.

[Danny]

And the bottom line is Kennedy is so completely horrified at how close they came to the nuclear war. This is where it starts now. And what happened is he reached back out to Khrushchev, said, okay, you're right, I lied to you. You know, you're right. We kept on doing the Operation Mongoose, but you shouldn't have put the missiles in there. There. We're going to make a deal, you know, that I'll take the missiles out of Turkey, you take the missiles out of here. And he ordered the, all of those, those bases, those paramilitary bases to cease and desist from any further operations. But, but he didn't know about the assassination team that had been deployed that, but he ordered this shutting down of all the bases. And what happens is in, in December, December of 1962, Frank Sturgis, who is the CIA liaison to the Cubano guys out on no Name Key, he decides he's going to. Even after getting the orders from the President that they're all to stand down. Down and to discontinue their operations, he in complete defiance with the, with the Cubans, launches an assault into Cuba and sinks a Russian ship.

[Jeremy Riss]

Whoa.

[Danny]

Which like nobody knows about, you know that anymore, but they, they sank a Russian ship.

[Jeremy Riss]

When was this?

[Danny]

This December of 1962.

[Jeremy Riss]

Whoa.

[Danny]

Sinks a Russian ship. Kennedy freaks out over the fact that, you know, he'd already lied to, to Khrushchev once and he couldn't stand for doing it again. You know, the whole thing would fall apart. And so what he does is he, he sends in he and Bobby who's the Attorney General, they send in six helicopter gunships with US Marshals sends because he couldn't trust FBI because of Hoover. And so he, he sends in U.S. marshals and they burn out the base at, at no Name Key and arrest all those guys including Sturgis and charge them with the violation of the Neutrality act, mounting military operations against a country with whom we have diplomatic relations. Right. And hold them for almost a week and then let him go. Okay, but it's kind of shot across the bow. The President's serious. The G's in on it. You know, you're not going to do this anymore. Then a second group, the ones in the Everglades under the liaison of E. Howard Hunt, start planning another attack into Cuba in complete defiance of the President even after the. What they had done over on. On the Name Key. And so Bobby and John send in the same six helicopter gunships and burn them out too and arrest them and charge them with the Neutrality act violations and the heads of the, the 50, the, the. The 2506 Brigade and Alpha 66 result. They're going to kill these guys. They're going to kill John and Bobby who are complete traitors that they've lied to them. They came, he came down and promised they were going to. Going to support them and overthrowing the government. Now they're chickening out and they want to kill him, but they know that they can't get away with it. But they've got the S Force that's capable of doing something like that. So they're all kind of just. Just pawing away like a charging bull, wanting to get at the President and kill him and the Attorney General both, you know, and, but they can't get away with this. And so what happens is Kennedy turns out starts secretly. This is the key to this thing. He starts secretly exchanging letters with. With Khrushchev through Norman Cousins. This guy is running letter 18 different letters back and forth off a completely off channel. No, no State Department oversight, no CIA coverage, anything. Completely secret communications. And in those letters they're deciding that they're both so totally traumatized by what happened and how their military forces can get out of control in the nuclear weapons that threat the total annihilation of our whole human species. So they can't let this happen. So what they do is they start discussing how they're going to order. Each of them is going to exercise their respective executive authority to start ordering the disassembly of the nuclear warheads in their respective arsenals and destroy them. Not just take them and put them on a shelf somewhere where they can just screw them back on another week or so, you know, but destroy them and they, they reach this agreement in principle.

[Jeremy Riss]

So he was, JFK was really going for it. He was trying to denuclearize.

[Danny]

Totally going for it. Totally going for it.

[Jeremy Riss]

And there's, there's this book, I think, called Mary's Mosaic.

[Danny]

Oh yeah. About, you know, Mary Pynchon.

[Jeremy Riss]

Yeah, Mary Pynchon, who is the wife of Cord Meyer. Cord Meyer, you know, World War II veteran who I believe came back with I think an eye patch. And you know, he turned him into a pacifist. And then he sort of got in with the Dulles, Allen Dulles kind of intel cabal and became this kind of warmonger who I think later was in charge of Operation Mockingbird. So like incepting journalism world with, with intel assets.

[Danny]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Riss]

But also was. Became this kind of bloodthirsty guy. And so his wife, Mary, Mary Bridget Meyer, she murdered. She was an artist and she was kind of a little more kind of spiritual, hippie, dippy and stuff. So. Yeah. So she had an affair with jfk?

[Danny]

Even more than that. I mean it was, it was a prolonged ongoing relationship. She, she became in a certain sense his actual sort of mistress.

[Jeremy Riss]

And they did LSD together.

[Danny]

Yes.

[Jeremy Riss]

And I don't know.

[Danny]

Provided by Tim Leary.

[Jeremy Riss]

That's wild. Provided by Timothy Lear. That's crazy.

[Danny]

Provided it to him. I know the guy that knows.

[Jeremy Riss]

Of course. You did it. Okay.

[Danny]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Riss]

Are you still lugging around one of those bulky, worn out wallets?

[Danny]

You know I am.

[Jeremy Riss]

Your posture is not great due to that wallet. Are you aware of that?

[Danny]

I'm.

[John Mack]

I'm currently now more self aware of my posture.

[Jeremy Riss]

It might be time for an upgrade.

[Danny]

Oh.

[John Mack]

What do you suggest?

[Jeremy Riss]

My personal suggestion is Ridge Wallet. Look at this sleek design. Do you see it?

[Danny]

Oh, wow. So sleek.

[Jeremy Riss]

Yeah, pretty sleek. Uh huh. This thing holds up to 12 cards plus cash.

[John Mack]

All in a slim, durable and stylish package too.

[Jeremy Riss]

You took the words right out of my mouth.

[John Mack]

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[Danny]

Where'd it go?

[Jeremy Riss]

I lost my wallet. I was just checking my airtag. Easy. Brilliant. Yeah. I was recently in the Colorado mountains. And if I had lost my Ridge Wallet, I would have no problem tracking it down. Even in the Rockies right now, Ridge is having their once a year anniversary sale. So get up to 40% [e-mail] cosmic just head to ridge.com cosmic to see their biggest sale of the year. After you purchase, they will ask about where you heard about them. Where did they hear about Ridge Wallet, Chris?

[John Mack]

They heard it here first on American Alchemy.

[Jeremy Riss]

Yeah.

[Danny]

Please support our show and tell them.

[John Mack]

Our show sent you upgrade your wallet it.

[Jeremy Riss]

Thank me later. And then I think they do LSD together. JFK and Mary Meyer. And this is sort of rumor mill stuff. So I'm curious to get your take after that jfk. Because she has this mission of like, I need to like stop these guys. Like her, her husband Gord Meyer and all of his associates are going to like blow up the world.

[Danny]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Riss]

And she is like, we need to reign these guys in. And she does LSD with jfk. And then JFK kind of, he was already more pacifist than them, but he becomes more hardcore. Like we really need to kind of denuclearize.

[Danny]

He saw the light, you know, and he went through this metanoia, as we refer to it, this metanoia experience about how incredible this was, you know, and how extraordinarily outrageous, you know, Curtis LeMay and the joint Chiefs have been, you know, and they'd already proposed to him this Operation Northwoods, you know. Okay. Because they were so desperate wanting to get Castro out of there. They were so dedicated in their mission to preserve us complete domination and control of the whole Western hemisphere that they viewed this as an absolute horrible affront to have these guys in Cuba. So they were just desperate to get the island overthrown. So they kept trying everything to do it. So the bottom line is when Kennedy is exchanging these letters and very important, the thing that people don't know about is that Khrushchev recommended that in order to verif that they were both complying with the actual. Not only the disassembly, but the destruction of the nuclear warheads is that they were going to have Pope John 23rd broker the whole deal and oversee the whole process.

[Jeremy Riss]

No way.

[Danny]

That's all true.

[Jeremy Riss]

Are you serious?

[Danny]

That's absolutely right.

[Jeremy Riss]

Khrushchev wrote about this in his letters back.

[Danny]

They were. Yes, they did it in the letters and these letters.

[Jeremy Riss]

Have you seen these letters?

[Danny]

No, but I know what the content. How do you know from Jesuit headquarters? Because of. Because of John, John Paul XXIII or John XXIII was going to be the broker, but he dies.

[Jeremy Riss]

I need to get in with the Jesuits, Danny. I don't know.

[Danny]

Right, right. You know, but, but, but he dies, he dies in early June. So they were working on trying to get this done. So he dies in early June. And what Kennedy decides is that in order to, to make up for the massive disfunding of the whole nuclear weapons programs in both countries, in order to have a massive economic stimulus to replace that, that the, he wants to. And he proposes to, to Gorbachev that or to Khrushchev, that they have a joint Soviet US Space program, that they completely combine their forces and they, they overcome the whole threat of the, the Cold War and that they join forces and going into outer space together. And he, on June 5th, 5th of 1962, or 63, rather now of 1963, what he does is he contacts McCown, the new CIA director, because he'd already forced into retirement Dulles, and he says he wants to get fully briefed in on the UFO stuff. Now this is, this becomes important because I didn't know.

[Jeremy Riss]

Yeah.

[Danny]

When I found out all that stuff, I didn't know about this other thing.

[Jeremy Riss]

Yeah, the Harold Malmgren stuff.

[Danny]

Yeah, that's right.

[Jeremy Riss]

Yeah. So, yeah, he asked to get brief about, you know, UFOs and wants to know more. And this is really an important fact. John McCone, before he became director of CIA after Dulles departed, was also the lead of the Atomic Energy Commission. He ran the Atomic Energy Commission. So he definitely would have been privy to all of the secrets when it came to UFOs, given the nuclear connection.

[Danny]

Yes. Yeah.

[Jeremy Riss]

And so he's asking for that. And then I can, I can give you the little Malm Grin piece, which is so Malmgren, Harold Malmgren was Presidential Advisor for jfk. He was the youngest of presidential advisors. He was one of McNamara's whiz kids and McNamara's Secretary of Defense at the time. Malm Grin is 27 years old and he's in the Situation Room around the Cuban Missile Crisis and at that same time, the Cuban missile crisis, McNamara had put him in charge of cost assessments for these new X ray based missile defense systems. And so they're doing these tests in the Marshall Islands, specifically at Johnston Atoll. And you have these test series called, you know, Starfish prime tests. And one of the tests is, is the Bluegill series. And this is this kind of X ray projection in the nose cone of these ICBMs, meant to take out incoming nuclear warheads.

[Danny]

Yes.

[Jeremy Riss]

Which we didn't have. Great, great nuclear defense at the time.

[Danny]

Yeah, right.

[Jeremy Riss]

And so this was this really exciting experimental thing and the Rand Corporation had a paper on it actually earlier. And so Harold is in charge of doing all the cost assessing for this. And he catches wind that in this test a UFO gets knocked out of the. That comes out of the plume of the nuclear blast.

[Danny]

Yes.

[Jeremy Riss]

And he freaks out and he says, well, I need to know about this. And they used to call them tag alongs at the time because they were so kind of, you know, immune to or was so casual.

[Danny]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Riss]

And you know, Cold War kind of intensity was so, you know, I don't know, it kind of just made them think it was just. Yeah, like normal thing that you have a UFO coming out of the plume. And he said, I need to know. I have like all. I blink at Q clearances. And they said, no, you don't. You know, this is Office of Naval Intelligence and Atomic Energy Commission stuff or whatever.

[Danny]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Riss]

And so they say, okay, you can know, but you have to, you have to come to, you know, Sandia Complex, Kirtland Air Force Base. Sandia, where Lawrence Preston, guy who's the maternal grandfather of Jeff Bezos, can show you these ufo. They didn't say, we're going to show you these UFO pieces. We'll brief you on it.

[Danny]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jeremy Riss]

And then he goes, they show him the UFO pieces. He feels the debris. He feels this anomalous debris. It speaks to him telepathically, which is remarkable. Then he insists on getting briefed or he, I don't know, maybe Bissell reaches out to him. But Richard Bissell, who he was number two, went on to become number two at the CIA. But at the time he was Deputy Director of plans at the CIA and he was known as the mayor of Area 51, goes and briefs him on, quote, unquote, other world technologies and all these kind of past crash retrievals, including Magenta 1933. And so Malm Grin knows about this stuff. And then jfk, I think a couple weeks later, a few weeks later, ends up at Los Alamos getting brief. Getting briefs. Yeah. So it's like, is that a coincidence? Probably.

[Danny]

Well, well, what it is is that then Kennedy realizes that if, if he can give this information to Khrushchev, that'll seal the deal. Yeah. That Khrushchev will know that he's completely. He's dropping this kind of nationalistic, competitive thing with, with Russia and that they can have a genuine joint space program. And of course they need to know about what this extraterrestrial dimension is if they're going to be venturing out into space together. And so he. So. But what happens is when he demands the briefing from McComb, the Bissell and the other guys tell. Tell Dulles about it. Yeah. Because Bissell in. In Angleton and the other guys kept going over to see Dulles all the time.

[Jeremy Riss]

Yeah.

[Danny]

In the brownstone over in Georgetown. Because he never left town. He just stayed right there. Because the fact of the matter is, is that the reason he'd been appointed to be the first civilian director of the CIA is the fact that he was legal counsel for Brown Brothers Harriman.

[Jeremy Riss]

This is Dulles.

[Danny]

That's Dulles, Alan Dulles. And that's where the China Lobby is. That's the group of people that had decided long ago that what they would do is secretly fund the rise of Hitler in Germany after World War I.

[Jeremy Riss]

Through the Union bank to.

[Danny]

To the Union bank and all that stuff that they set up to have them be raised up to be the bulwark against Bolshevism in Europe. Yeah. And since the. The investors at Brown Brothers Harriman, these two dozen.

[Jeremy Riss]

And that was the initial feeder for the CIA came out of the Brown Brothers.

[Danny]

That's right. It was. It was Robert Lovett who actually wrote the initial memo to Truman saying, we've got. That. We've got to reinstitute a major agency like the OS process. We got to have it in peacetime. And it came from Robert Lovett, senior partner at Brown Brothers Harriman. And so that. That whole group was where it was the seat of the China Lobby, who saw the future of investment, you know, capital investment in the Asian markets, because they already owned a controlling stock interest in most of the war industry in Germany, which they'd extracted through the Versailles Treaty agreement. Long involved in process, they did it. But the bottom line is that when at of World War I, at the end of World War I, when the treaty of Versailles was being signed, Robert Lansing, who was the Secretary of State under Wilson Dulles uncle, was the uncle of Allen and John Foster Dulles. He had married the eldest daughter of John W. Foster, who was the maternal grandfather for both Alan and John. John Foster. So there was John W. Foster was the guy, and he was an arch imperialist. He's the guy that overthrew under his. When he was Secretary of State, he overthrew the islands of Hawaii and started taking Guam and that whole thing focusing on moving into Asia. That was the whole idea of that. And so that what they did in the Versailles Treaty, he got Robert Lansing, who was the son in law of John W. Foster, had had Robert Lansing, his son in law, bring his two grandsons, John Foster Dulles and Allen Dulles with him to the Versailles Treaty and actually as lawyers at Sullivan and Cromwell, to draft into the, into the Versailles Treaty agreement the war reparations requirements.

[Jeremy Riss]

Whoa.

[Danny]

That Germany had to, had to pay war reparations for all the damage they'd inflicted on other industries.

[Jeremy Riss]

So that made them dependent on the Union Bank.

[Danny]

Well, what happened was just even pre Union bank, this is in 1918. And so what they did is they, they said look, that you're going to have to pay these war reparations. They impose that, that financial obligation on them, but they didn't have the money to pay them. And so what happened is the investors in Brown brothers Harriman, these 20, 24 or you know, robber baron families, you know, the Rockefellers and Harriman Railway people, Carnegie and all of these guys, Mellons, all of them were there and they saw their future as going westward into Asia. Because what they could do is they could secure control over Europe through Germany. And what they would do is they would loan the money to Germany to pay the war reparations. And they would take as security for their loans the controlling stock interest in like the Krupp ball bearing factory and in IG Farbin and all these other major war industries making the explosives and chemicals. They would, they would have this.

[Jeremy Riss]

A lot of these were kind of operation paperclip based companies. Right. Like they were, they were in some cases started and run by Nazis.

[Danny]

Well, the Nazis weren't there really.

[Jeremy Riss]

Okay, okay.

[Danny]

This is only 1918.

[Jeremy Riss]

Okay.

[Danny]

Right. So what happened is what, what they did is, is they set up that mechanism by means of which the stockholders or the investors in Brown Brothers Harriman come these two dozen wealthy, super wealthy families. What they did is they had the controlling stock interest in those companies. And then what they did is they additionally loaned additional money to Germany to rebuild their war machine so that they could be the bulwark against Bolshevism. Because at the very end of the, of the, the First World War in October of 1917, the Bolsheviks had overthrown Czar N II and overthrown him and withdrawn them from World War I. And so what happened is this seat of kind of a socialist alternative to the kind of investment ideas that were housed at Brown Brothers Erriman, that they viewed them as this terrible adversary. So what they did is they leaned in On Robert Lansing, who was the secretary of state and sent a foreign military expedition into Russia that almost nobody knows about it, a full scale US Financed u. S. Military foreign expeditionary force into Russia to try. In 1918.

[Jeremy Riss]

Wow.

[Danny]

To try to crush the Bolshevik revolution. Wow.

[Jeremy Riss]

Really?

[Danny]

And they recruited the white Russians, all those kind of tsarist Russians that were in st. Petersburg. That whole crowd.

[Jeremy Riss]

Was Dulles involved?

[Danny]

Dulles was involved with Germany. Germany. He was appointed to be the legal counsel for Germany as well as the legal counsel for braun brothers Harriman. So he was negotiating both sides of these financial agreements so that they had them owning.

[Jeremy Riss]

He was the legal counsel for Germany for brown brothers Harriman, but for Germany is what he meant.

[Danny]

Yes. He was appointed by Robert Lansing, his uncle, to be the legal counsel for Germany as well. So that he was on both sides of the negotiations. He was counseling Germany to accept these loans. Whoa. You know, and. And to rebuild their. Their war industry. And he, he ended up being the. The basically almost the legal governor general, you know, working for the German government. Whoa. And so that, that, that's what he did. He choreographed that entire thing. And so what happened is they got that all set up in 1819. 1819 19. Yeah. Then they, then Robert Lance sent the foreign military expeditionary force into Russia to try to crush the Bolshevik revolution in the cradle.

[Jeremy Riss]

Hey, everyone. Jesse here. Let's talk about something a lot of us quietly deal with. Hair loss. This is something that messes with your confidence more than you'd expect. Okay. You might be wondering, Jesse, you clearly don't suffer from this. It's true. The biggest issue I face is hat hair. I actually have very thick hair. But one of my good friends deals with hair loss. So when irestore sent me their Irestore elite, I gifted it to him. And I've been amazed at the results it gave him. The first thing that stood out to him is it's comfortable and easy to use. You just pop it on while reading or working and it does its thing. This isn't some Gimmick. It uses 300 lasers and 200 LEDs to deliver clinically backed red light therapy straight to the scalp. This is the best way to stimulate hair growth. Over the past few weeks, I've seen noticeable improvement with my friend. He says that his hair feels thicker and healthier and it's improved his overall confidence, confidence and life. The irestore elite uses triple wavelength technology and lumitech red light therapy. It's engineered for deeper penetration and broader coverage. That means more stimulation to hair follicles. And better faster results. And look, if it doesn't work for you, they offer a 12 month money back guarantee. I've never heard of a money back guarantee that lasts that long. Try it consistently and if you're not happy, they get you your money back. Of course the restocking fee applies. That made it a no brainer for my friend. So give yourself the gift of hair confidence. This spring for a limited time only, our listeners get a huge discount on Irestore Elite when you use code Jesse J S s [e-mail] Head over to irestore.com and use code Jesse J-S S E for our show's exclusive discounts on the Irestore Elite. Please support our show and tell them we sent you. Hair loss is frustrating. You don't have to fight it alone. Thanks to IR Store. But let's, let's get back to. Okay, so 63. So, so he's aware, he's aware of UFOs and trying some joint space program with Khrushchev around that. Yes, he is trying to defang the American nuclear arsenal, but also have also the Russian Soviets. Yeah. Denuclearized entirely a mutual disarmament.

[Danny]

Yes.

[Jeremy Riss]

And he is trying to take the country back, the US back from the China military.

[Danny]

China agreed. China agreed that they would not pursue any interest nuclear program at all.

[Jeremy Riss]

Do we have records of that?

[Danny]

Yes. Oh yeah.

[Jeremy Riss]

Really?

[Danny]

Oh yes.

[Jeremy Riss]

Where are the records of that?

[Danny]

That there's. They can dig them out because they reached out to China. China only had like he reached out to Mao. They had a real early interest in kind of trying to deal with the nuclear weapons issue, but they hadn't really mounted a program and he agreed to forestall the entire thing.

[Jeremy Riss]

Really. No.

[Danny]

At that point, at that point in between Basically January of 1963 and June of 1963, at least prior to when John XXIII died, that that was still kind of a totally viable operation that they were planning to do. And then when John XXIII died, I think Kennedy leaned forward into it to try to make sure that the thing kept on going. And so he decided he was going to get the information for Cruise Chef and give it to him as a further sign of good faith so that they could not only have a complete open and honest relationship by putting some skin in the game, by coughing up the information we had about this, but also prepare for who they were going to be encountering, you know, out in an extraterrestrial civilization. You know, and what happened is on June 5, when he asked For. For it. The Bissell. It's almost certainly was Bissell, you know, found out about it, you know, and told Dulles. And so Dulles and the guys started really wait. They can't allow the nuclear missiles to be disassembled because they have to have them to deal with China, you know, because China had demonstrated already in the. In Korea that they could put a billion men in uniform and just melt your gun barrels down by just pouring them out like they did up at Incheon and at the reservoir, you know, that. That's what they did. They just sent in like a billion guys, you know, and just stormed them. And so they realized that they could not take on China in the future in a congressional land war, so they needed the nuclear weapons. That's why MacArthur kept saying, what we got to do is show them, bomb them. You know, that whole thing, that fallout with Truman. So the bottom line is that China lot lobby freaked out about potentially losing their nuclear option against China. So that can't be. That. We can't allow that to happen. And we can't wait a year for the elections, you know, I mean, you know, they can probably figure out how to get rid of him in the election, you know, but they couldn't wait the year because he would order. Start ordering the disassembly. And so what happened is that when he. When that. That June 5th, that he ended up issuing the. The. The demand for the. He did the same thing, same day, he did this weird thing, which I've never been to quite figure out yet about the printing these. These silver certificates. He did that on June 5, too. Interesting. He did a whole bunch of these things.

[Jeremy Riss]

I met Oliver Stone once, and he connects the printing of the silver certificates with JFK's assassination. Like that was somehow undermining.

[Danny]

Well, he was doing a lot of radical things right there. Because I think that what happened was when John XXIII died, Kennedy, he was hoping to bring John XXIII in. And the kind of Catholic support for what he was doing, the ethics of what he was doing, the whole speech at George Washington University and all that stuff, stuff, you know, he was going through this real metanoia at that time, you know, and. But the. The act of disassembling and destroying the nuclear warheads was viewed by Dulles and the guys as a. As an act of treason, you know, and not only that, but it was eliminating their ability to actually quell China, you know, into. To be able to have access to the market, the Asian market. So what he did is just Greenlighted the S Force. Mm.

[Jeremy Riss]

So this is this kind of sleeper cell? Yeah, they're just select group of trafficante Cuban exiles. Who are these kind of killer assassins that were originally commissioned to take out Che Guevara and Castro. And he reoperationalizes them to take out jfk.

[Danny]

Just. All he had to do is just get up off their neck.

[Jeremy Riss]

So who were the three? Who were the two men on the grassy knoll? Who were they?

[Danny]

Well, we know that Morales was the shooter.

[Jeremy Riss]

Okay.

[Danny]

Because he was the guy. We know that Rip Robertson was there.

[Jeremy Riss]

Were they the two men on the grassy mole, or was Morales on the grassy knoll?

[Danny]

Morales was on the grassy knoll.

[Jeremy Riss]

Okay, so he took the shot from the grassy knoll.

[Danny]

He took the shot from the grassy knoll. Wow. That was. He.

[John Mack]

Wow.

[Danny]

The thing that I find to be, in a certain sense, so special about what we now know that actually happened is the peculiar aspect of this is the relationship that Oswald had with all these guys.

[John Mack]

And then you look at the. What's come out about Oswald's landlady? She's a super curious character.

[Jeremy Riss]

What's her name? She's still alive, bro.

[John Mack]

She's like 93.

[Jeremy Riss]

No way.

[John Mack]

Ruth Payne is her name.

[Jeremy Riss]

Ruth Payne, that's right. And she somehow was connected with Dulles. Mistress Bancroft. Am I making that up?

[John Mack]

Yeah. No, this is correct. She actually vacationed the summer of 1963 at a place called Nashon island, which is right up near Martha's Vineyard in Massachusetts. And Nashon island is owned by the Forbes family. That's John Kerry Forbes, the guy who ran against Bush in 2004. Right. They were both Skull and Bones. They both went to Yale. Secret society. The Forbes family hosted this summer retreat at their mansion. Ruth Payne's there with Alan Dulles. Allen Dulles mistress. What they discussed is, again, that's not gonna be in the JFK files. It's not gonna be in the Kennedy files.

[Jeremy Riss]

What year were they together there?

[John Mack]

63.

[Jeremy Riss]

That's so right there.

[John Mack]

So right after she leaves Nishan Island, I think she either before she went to Nishan or after she visits her sister in Virginia. Turns out her sister works for the CIA. That's come out.

[Danny]

Whoa.

[John Mack]

Then she goes, picks up Lee and Marina in New Orleans and brings them to Dallas, gives them a home, hooks Lee up with his job at the Schoolbook Depository Building. Which, by the way, the Schoolbook Depository building is an interesting. It's owned by D. Harold Byrd. Dry hole Byrd is David. Harold Bird is his real name. But they call him dry hole bird because he was against something called the oil depletion allowance. He's an oil man. And Kennedy wanted to get rid of this oil depletion allowance, which would have made all the oil people have to basically pay a ton of money. They wouldn't get this government tax break from Uncle Sam. So they all hated Kenny. They wanted him gone for that reason. That's where you have the oil, big oil element. And Big oil goes back way long in history. There's a whole book by Daniel Jurgen called the Prize and there's a Prize Part 2, where he talks about the whole history of oil with John D. Rockefeller and how he bought out all the railroads and would only ship his oil through the railroad. So he could basically have a monopoly over the oil business because none of the other oil companies could ship their oil because he owned all the railroads. That's why you, you know, in Monopoly you own all the railroads. It's part of the game. And again, he, he shut all the business and competition out and they were eventually disbanded with the Antitrust act that, you know, broke up all the monopolies supposedly. But a lot of these oil people have a real dangerous history of murder and conspiracy going way back to then, you know, and just doing terrible things. So, yeah, those guys are involved. And then D. Harold Byrd, addition to being oil man, he's also buys a bunch of stock in this company called LTV Ling Temco Vaught. And he's part of. He owns this big share in Vought Aerospace. Well, it turns out Vought Aerospace built all the flying saucers for Wright Patterson in the 40s and 50s under a guy named Alfred C. Loading.

[Jeremy Riss]

Wait, wait, what? Yeah, really?

[Danny]

Really?

[Jeremy Riss]

We've built. What do you mean when you say built the flying saucers, like built the Avrocar project, which is on record.

[John Mack]

Well, the Avrocar project was Canada, so that was that.

[Jeremy Riss]

That's. But then it got moved to Wright Pat as project Wise Silver Bug. Yeah, okay, yeah, but, but like, so what when you say built flying saucers. Because.

[John Mack]

So the Vought flying pancake is a, is a Vought aircraft and it's a, it's literally an attempt. It's early attempt to build a flying saucer with propellers.

[Jeremy Riss]

That was before avrocar in the 40s.

[John Mack]

It was way before this was. This was. Even predates.

[Jeremy Riss]

That's so interesting. I didn't, I didn't even heard of this. That's so.

[John Mack]

It'S very obscure. It's not well known. And then LTV Ling 10 ko vought. He gives a bunch of money with Ling, and they invest in this right before the Kennedy assassination. And, of course, aerospace. And all those people made a ton of money off the Kennedy assassination. And then you have deep space aerospace connections, deep state aerospace connections to Lee Harvey Oswald, because he worked at Atsugi, which is where the CIA was running the U2 spy plane program.

[Jeremy Riss]

So, you know, so well, also, I believe Harold Byrd, who owned the Texas Book Depository, he was, I think, had some connections with LBJ. And then he was also connected with Curtis LeMay. Curtis LeMay gave him an award for the Civil Air Corps when he was younger.

[John Mack]

Yes.

[Jeremy Riss]

And Curtis LeMay hated JFK.

[John Mack]

Absolutely.

[Jeremy Riss]

And, you know, thought that he was, you know, kind of a traitor.

[John Mack]

Lbj, too. And there's pictures of LBJ and D. Harold Byrd together, like, going to football games. And they were. They were good friends. So they were definitely. Definitely knew each other. Definitely.

[Jeremy Riss]

Maybe the craziest thing of all, I mean, JFK, we're painting a picture of him just being 360, surrounded by these, like, you know, spooky people. The mayor of Dallas was a guy named Earl Cabell.

[John Mack]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Riss]

And his. His brother Charles was Dulles Number two at the CIA.

[John Mack]

And the Bay of Pigs.

[Jeremy Riss]

There you go.

[John Mack]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Riss]

And. And Earl rerouted JFK's motorcycle.

[John Mack]

Yeah. So, like, they took it right by D. Harold Bird's building right in D.C. plaza.

[Jeremy Riss]

It's like, come on. Yeah.

[John Mack]

Now it gets even deeper. Yeah. It's crazy, bro, because, you know, D. Harold Bird, you know that he had. He's a big hunter. Right After JFK got assassinated, he went to Africa on a safari and shot a bunch of elephants, brought their heads back and had them mounted on the wall in his big trophy room. A big trophy room full of all the animal heads that he. Of all the animals he killed and shot. You know what else he.

[Danny]

He did?

[John Mack]

He took the window out of the sixth floor depository building and he put it in his trophy room at his house.

[Danny]

What?

[John Mack]

Why? What reason for that?

[Jeremy Riss]

No way. That's crazy. That's fucking weird. Whoa.

[John Mack]

That is like. Dude, that's red flags. That is huge. Huge red flags. And the fact that Ruth Payne knows D. Harold Byrd, she brings the Oswalds to Dallas, gives him this house to live in, and then all after the assassination, they go to Ruth Payne's garage, find all the evidence that. And then about a month after the assassination, after the FBI has already searched the home extensively, Ruth Payne comes and says, oh, me and Marina found this other note. That he left for Marina supposedly, where he wrote Marina a note when he supposedly went to go shoot General Walker and left her a note. But they found this all after the case. And then they've used that to blame the shooting of Edwin Walker on Lee Harvey Oswald. He's also, you know, he's killing this, you know, anti communist general, which is really weird because, you know, it doesn't make sense with the narrative of, you know, what is he just trying to kill someone to get famous? Is that who we think Lee Harvey Oswald is?

[Danny]

You know, that people get. Oh, poor Oswald, you know, was just this innocent guy who was just a weirdo and he was just a fall guy, you know, and didn't have anything to do with it. It's not true at all.

[Jeremy Riss]

He was CIA.

[Danny]

Well, he was actually trained by the Office of Naval Intelligence, wasn't CIA. Interesting. And he was in this thing called operation. It was a whole different operation. But the bottom line is he ended up being part of this thing that was called the in the field intelligence. And it was, it was a kind of a private spying operation, the political spying operation that was going on the William D. Pauley and Hunt. Eh, Hunt and a lot of guys, they were funding it. And that was Willoughby, George Willoughby, Charles Willoughby rather. Because when, when Truman got not fired. Truman wasn't fired. He was, he was.

[Jeremy Riss]

So what were these operations Lee Harvey Oswald was involved in?

[Danny]

He was doing spying. He was doing spying on progressive groups in, in around the, around New Orleans. Working with Guy Bannister. It was true.

[Jeremy Riss]

Guy Bannister is the FBI guy who's known as like the head of the X Files. Like he. On the weird desk of the FBI. FBI, yeah. And so he hit was 555 Camp Street. Is that right?

[Danny]

555 Camp Street.

[Jeremy Riss]

And so, and so Lee Harvey Oswald is working out of that building. That building mysteriously gets burned down. Right.

[Danny]

By Novel. Gordon Novel is the guy that was arrested and prosecuted by James Garrison in New Orleans for burning down 555 Camp Street. The office where Lee Oswald had the office along with. What was his name? The guy that was the hardcore right wing guy that was the head of the Latin American Anti Communist League. One of the guy that was the former FBI guy that was down in New Orleans. The heck was that guy's name? But anyway, he had an office in the same exact same building on the exact same floor. Whoa. With him and Gordon Novell was prosecuted and convicted for burning down that building in the midst of, in the midst of the investigation.

[Jeremy Riss]

That's crazy. Okay. Who ends up later in the ufo, in the UFO conversation, you know, and.

[Danny]

Millions of tried to hire me as.

[Jeremy Riss]

His lawyer, Robert Bigelow and stuff. Okay, so, so this is all so crazy. Yeah. So what is Lee Harvey Oswald doing exactly? He's inserting himself into like he's, he.

[Danny]

He is, he is in addition to spying on different liberal, liberal groups like ACLU and other things that he's doing, filing reports with this field intelligence operation going on that, that what he's doing is he's infiltrating the, the Free Country Cuba group and pretending to be a Marxist, you know, just like he, when he went to Russia and did all that stuff. And so what he was doing is he was designing a character of being involved with Russia and with, with Cuba. And what, what the, the plan was is to coax him into taking a shot at the motorcade. Not hitting anybody, but taking a shot at the motorcade. And then he would, he would escape. Escape. But they would have, they figure out who it was, there's the gun and there's who he is and that they would blame it on Cuba and they could get back to invading the island. You know, again, it was the same guys, the same guard, hardcore right wing guys that are into this. And so he's, he's all put into place to take the shot at the motorcade and then run an escape. And what happens? He takes the shot at the motorcade, hits the curb and chips the, the curb, the pieces of the cement flying and immediately these other shots ring out and kill the President. Right.

[Jeremy Riss]

So you think Oswald missed?

[Danny]

Oh, he didn't miss. He wasn't intending to hit him.

[Jeremy Riss]

He wasn't even. What was, what was the point really?

[Danny]

The point was to have a fire, a gun, a shot fired at the motorcade to be a bungled attempt to assassinate the President and blame it on Oswald, who was a Cuban operations guy so that they could then justify invading the army island. Yeah, that's, that was the whole plan, very subtle plan. And he was involved in that part. And when he finally fires the shot.

[Jeremy Riss]

Why didn't they end up using him as oh like he was this Cuban operative? Because they did. That didn't end up being the narrative like we need to retaliate against Cuba.

[Danny]

Well be. Because, because he killed, he killed Tippett, the police officer. Tippett was sent to kill him. You know, because the whole idea is there's the death guy, there's a lone gunman, dead guy, you know, that he took the shot at the President you rotten bastards. You know, you're a Cuban, you know, spy and, you know.

[Jeremy Riss]

And what was his association with Cuba prior?

[Danny]

He was part of the Free Cuba group. He infiltrated the group. That was when he got arrested on the street. Remember, by. By, you know, sitting on the street corner championing Cuba. What year is this in the 1960. 63.

[Jeremy Riss]

Okay.

[Danny]

1963.

[Jeremy Riss]

And he's, he's chanting Free Cuba, like in New Orleans or where in.

[Danny]

In New Orleans.

[Jeremy Riss]

Okay.

[Danny]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Riss]

This is amazing.

[Danny]

Yeah. So he, he was creating this character.

[Jeremy Riss]

Yeah.

[Danny]

Who was a. Who was kind of a zany guy who'd been to Russia and it was in favoring Cuba. And then he was going to take a shot at the thing and he thought he was supposed to help get escaped.

[Jeremy Riss]

Yeah.

[Danny]

The whole theory was he was going to. They were going to help him escape. Escape.

[Jeremy Riss]

Yeah.

[Danny]

And then. But they were going to blame it on him. But he's already in some safe haven.

[Jeremy Riss]

But in reality, they were just going to take him out.

[Danny]

They were going to kill him.

[Jeremy Riss]

And then he killed Tippet.

[Danny]

That's right.

[Jeremy Riss]

Sort of bungled the plan.

[Danny]

As soon as he saw Tippet, he just killed him.

[Jeremy Riss]

Wow.

[Danny]

And. And got arrested for it.

[Jeremy Riss]

Yeah.

[Danny]

You know, and so then that's why he kept saying, wait a second. I'm just a patsy here. Something's wrong. Statement, please. I like some legal representation.

[Jeremy Riss]

These police officers have not allowed me. Me to.

[Danny]

To have any.

[Jeremy Riss]

I. I don't know what this is all about.

[Danny]

Sir. The president.

[Jeremy Riss]

I work in that building.

[Danny]

Were you in the building at the time? Naturally, if I work in that building, yes, sir. Back up, man. No, they've taken me in because of the fact that I lived in the Z. I'm just a president. And he tried to place the call.

[Jeremy Riss]

Yeah.

[Danny]

He asked for the telephone call to Nag Nag Flag's head.

[Jeremy Riss]

Yeah.

[Danny]

Which is Redskin. That was. That was the whole operation where he was dipped. That's what he was dipped.

[Jeremy Riss]

He was erased.

[Danny]

Yeah. And so, so the bottom line and that whole thing, the role of him, you know, it really disappoints half of the. The Castro assassin or the, The Kennedy assassination community. Oh, no, wait a second. He's supposed to be a completely innocent guy. Didn't have anything to do with it. You know, wasn't involved with these people at all. And they're just these weird things, you know, that, that Garrison in, In. In New Orleans was way off base, but he wasn't, you know, that, that whole crowd was part of that, you know, in Guy Bannister and the whole crowd. Banister was the head of the. The Central American chapter of the World Anti Communist League.

[Jeremy Riss]

Wow.

[Danny]

You know.

[Jeremy Riss]

Wow.

[Danny]

You know, that's. That's who they are, you know, and that's what he was part of. And. And so they. That. That's. That's how the. That's how the thing came down. And of course, as soon as it happened, all the people that knew about the S Force said, holy is the S Force. You know, there's. There's Rip Robertson. Photographs of Rip Robertson, who's the field. Field operations commander for the S Force, standing right there in Dilly Plaza. You got Ed Lansdale, you know, the photographs of Lansdale sitting right there. And his wife identifies, you know, so that you got the S Forces in town.

[Jeremy Riss]

Wow.

[John Mack]

I mean, you see Felipe Fidal Santiago on the grassy knoll. This guy's like a radio man. He looks like a Cuban. He's out of place, and he's sitting. He's sitting right next to the Umbrella Man. And the Umbrella Man's never been really solved. They came out with this guy they said was the umbrella man in 74 at the house Select Committee. That's not the dude.

[Jeremy Riss]

Come on.

[John Mack]

Now. There was a different guy there with the umbrella symbolizing. You didn't have the umbrella of the air support to help with the Bay of Pigs, and now we're gonna get you. And also being the signal man on the grassy knoll, did you know that there were three yellow painted lines right on the side of the curb where the shot. In conjunction where all the shots took place in the kill zone, and they were painted the night before. Cause Beverly Oliver was standing on one. She can be seen in the Zapruder film standing on the yellow curb on the edge of the sidewalk on Elm Street. And she. She got yellow paint all over her shoe because it was freshly painted the night before. Now there's no parking on Elm street, so there's no reason to paint the curb yellow. Everyone. Everyone knows there's no parking there. It's an on ramp to the freeway, to the Stemmons Freeway. You know, nobody. Nobody pulls over there and parks. So there's no reason to paint the curb unless you're marking the shots for the kill zone.

[Jeremy Riss]

Were there any other actors or people worthy of consideration as far as the involvement here?

[Danny]

Yeah, I mean, that. That. The. The question is to how many of the people in Brown Brothers Harriman had to sign off on this, you know, other than Dulles? And the. The real power was sort of in Sullivan and Cromwell, that whole law firm. You know, that's not a normal law firm. Sullivan and Cromwell. There was legal counsel for Brown Brothers Herriman, the Cromwell of Sullivan and Cromwell is the guy that Corridor choreographed the. The overthrowing of the Panamanian government to build the Panama Canal. I mean, it's sort of. It was sort of like Williams and Connolly.

[Jeremy Riss]

Interesting.

[Danny]

Yeah, it's not like a normal law firm.

[Jeremy Riss]

Gotcha.

[Danny]

No, that's like Sullivan, Cromwell was that back at those times. So. So the. The bottom line is that's what happened. And then as soon as the people realized what had happened, they said, is the S1 force, you know, and so we got to do everything in our power to cover this thing up, because anybody finds out it's the S Force, they're going to track it all the way back through to the agency, and they're going to blame this on the agency. Whereas it wasn't the agency as such that did it. It was Dulles, you know, in his capacity as the consigliere, basically, for Brown Brothers Harriman, you know, in that whole China lobby operation. And so the agency went to great lengths to conceal this.

[Jeremy Riss]

This.

[Danny]

And then they briefed lbj. LBJ goes and gets a hold of Earl Warren and says, justice Warren, Chief Justice Warren, you got to chair this commission because we've really got to quell any of these concerns about a conspiracy. And look at one thing that you got to do. And he didn't want to do it. And so he said, look, let me tell you why you have to do this. He said, because it says you've got to be sure to conceal the fact that there was an assassination team that was. That was assigned to try to kill Castro, and it was the Kennedys that put it together. If the word gets out that there was an assassination team that Kennedy put together to try to kill Castro, everybody's going to believe that Castro found out about it and killed the president. And if that happens, you know, people are going to go crazy and they're going to try to make us invade Cuba. And if we do that, Russia is going to cause a world war. And he. They lost to Chief Justice Warren, says Warren, to get to chair the war increase. And they put Alan Dulles on, who's the de facto run guy that ran the Warren Commission. You know, the whole thing covered them all up. So crazy to cover the. And what people do is people, when they get little pieces of the information, they say, well, this is the agency that killed him.

[Jeremy Riss]

Yeah.

[Danny]

You know, and they Killed him because he screwed up the Bay of Pigs.

[Jeremy Riss]

Did they get Jack Ruby to kill. What, what happened?

[Danny]

I mean, that's all the mob, they said, wait, holy, we, we've messed up here.

[Jeremy Riss]

How did they, how did they manipulate Jack Ruby into killing Lee Harvey Oswald?

[Danny]

He was, he was a made man. He was a made man of the, the, of the mob. You know when they tell you, do.

[Jeremy Riss]

You think they mkultured him because he says he didn't remember killing Lee Arbia for a long time?

[Danny]

No, I don't think that.

[Jeremy Riss]

You don't think so, that's just. But that. Okay, but so then yeah, maybe, maybe not, you know, for the actual killing. But then he ends up in jail and he claims that he doesn't remember killing Lee Harvey Oswald, but is pretty lucid. And then he's seen court ordered by a psychiatrist who is on record as being part of MK Ultra, a guy named Jolly west, who has letters between him and Sidney Gottlieb. We, you know, are fairly sure that he was involved in CIA mind control stuff. And he sees Jack Ruby for 24 hours, hours, totally not filmed, you know, and comes out, Jack Ruby has a psychotic break and he starts, you know, saying that they're Jews outside his jail cell, screaming or whatever, and is never the same after that. And Jolly west does a press conference saying Jack Ruby has gone crazy. You know, he's lost his marbles or whatever.

[Danny]

And so you can't depend on anything he says.

[Jeremy Riss]

Yeah, I mean, that's got to be pretty. But that, but that would imply that the first time around he will wasn't. He wasn't mkultra because maybe he had something to share and they needed to scramble his brain.

[Danny]

Yeah. The thing is that just following Occam's Razor, you get a real simple line and narrative of what really happened. And then all kinds of activities that are undertaken to cover up and conceal this end up being interpreted as your principal. Involved in making the plan to kill him. Because, because it makes it satisfies people's other more sinister worldview. Right, but, but, but the bottom line is that that the, the threat that was going to come unraveled happened with the Watergate burglary. Because what happened is when as soon as the Democratic National Committee chooses Larry o' Brien.

[Jeremy Riss]

Yeah.

[Danny]

To be the new head of the Democratic National Committee. It turns out previously, 20 years, he was the chief lobbyist for, for Howard Hughes in Washington.

[Jeremy Riss]

This is an amazing part of your narrative, which is, is that Larry o' Brien is the number two or chief Lobbyist for Howard Hughes. Howard Hughes was responsible on behalf of Nixon for setting up, you know, the S Force and working with Traffic Conte.

[Danny]

Yep.

[Jeremy Riss]

And so Nixon is, because he was a longtime political opponent of jfk, is freaked out that he's. Because he's running for president later.

[Danny]

Yes.

[Jeremy Riss]

In the. You know, so this is in the seventies. He says he's. He's freaked out. Out that basically Larry o' Brien is going to out him as having killed his longtime political opponent, even though he set up the S Force not to kill Jeff K. It was to take out Castro and Che Guevara. But he's freaked out that they have compromise on him.

[Danny]

That's right.

[Jeremy Riss]

And if you look at what happened in the Watergate scandal, the burglary, it's. James McCord is involved. You represented him, you know, in the one that afterwards, McCord was known as Dulles number two, and his favorite guy or whatever it was, you know, his favorite understudy.

[Danny]

And.

[Jeremy Riss]

And they bugged Larry o' Brien's phone's office. So clearly they were targeting him. And Nixon was way up against McGovern in the polls in that election. So you always have to ask the question, was it like he was paranoid? But was he that paranoid, like, why would he do that if it weren't this sort of specific thing he was worried about?

[Danny]

That's right. Because if o' Brien were to reveal the fact that he's the one that created the assassination team that in fact killed the president. President. There's no way you can talk your way out of that.

[Jeremy Riss]

Yeah.

[Danny]

In an election year from June, between June and November, he's not going to climb out under. From under that. And so he said, we've got it. We've got to find out whether. Whether o' Brien knows about it and is thinking at all about using it. So we've got to not only wiretap his telephone, but bug is off it.

[Jeremy Riss]

That's amazing.

[Danny]

And that's what they did, and they sent him in to do it.

[Jeremy Riss]

So you. You then are the lawyer for James McCoy.

[Danny]

Well, it was Bailey. It was Bailey himself. Himself, because Bailey, it turns out, was on index four for the agency.

[Jeremy Riss]

Okay.

[Danny]

Which. Which we didn't know.

[Jeremy Riss]

Okay.

[Danny]

You know, none of us knew it in the office.

[Jeremy Riss]

Did you learn anything from those guys about, like, spooky Intel World or like, did. Did any of them sort of reveal any secret, like McCord. Did you interact with McCord at all?

[Danny]

No.

[Jeremy Riss]

Okay.

[Danny]

No. But. But I. I knew that McCord was. Was. Was didn't want to plead guilty. He was refusing to plead guilty. He said, why am I pleading guilty? You know, that we got. Because he had been told that they were going in to, to try to find evidence that, that o' Brien and the other guys were, were coordinating and financing anti war demonstrators. Y and he wanted to get that information. So he thought he was involved in kind of a typical kind of, you know, I guess meat and potatoes kind of covert operation by the agency. And they've been instructed that if you get caught doing a covert operation for the agency stateside, which is totally illegal, call one of the people on the Index four. You know, there's William Bennett Williams and then there's Bailey and there was this other guy Miller I knew about, you know, but, but I didn't know any of that when Bailey contacted me and asked me to come over to his shop to, to be special counsel, you know, for the burglary case.

[Jeremy Riss]

I want to pivot slightly. It's the same sort of, sort of, you know, world that we're talking about here. But you have a very interesting narrative about how some of, maybe the initial financing occurs for secret covert UFO programs in America.

[Danny]

Oh yeah.

[Jeremy Riss]

And you, you talk about this Anderson Trust and you know, billions of dollars worth of lost gold.

[Danny]

1.2 trillion.

[Jeremy Riss]

There you go.

[Danny]

At $32 an ounce.

[Jeremy Riss]

Unbelievable.

[Danny]

Which is out $3,400.

[Jeremy Riss]

So what's, what's the story there?

[Danny]

Well, it's the, the, what happened is back in about 19, about 2000, it was just like 2000 year 2000, that Mr. Aiea, who is like the third richest fellow in the entire Philippines, you know, contacts the Jesuit headquarters that he wanted to, he wanted to have somebody from the Jesuit headquarters because he'd gone to a Jesuit high school and college and stuff and wanted them to come and Brief the top 50 business people in the Philippines about what the consequences of global climate change were going to be for the island, you know, with the rising sea levels, is going to swamp parts of the island and ruin businesses. And so trying to see if they would mobilize the business community to do something about it, Right. So I got designated to go breach grief him. So I fly, I fly to the Philippines and Mr. Aya puts me up in this like 20 star hotel, you know, with these, this sumptuous food everywhere, all this bizarre kind of offensive kind of opulence. And you know, I go brief these guys and I tell them that what they should do is they should try to mobilize and get the government of the Philippines which they had some influence with these rich business guys, guys, you know, to lead the association of Island States in the United nations to mobilize a, a motion on the floor of the General assembly to have a Uniting for Peace resolution to have the island states all join together and accuse the United States and, and China and India of aggressive activities, ruining their national security security by the, the fostering and promoting of the fossil fuels that are swamping their islands and ruining their country. And if you can get, if I told him, if you can get 2/3 of all the members of the General Assembly, 193 countries at that time, you know, to support such a resolution, you can get an investigation done. And if you can get 3/4 of them to vote for a resolution ordering those countries, countries to start cutting back on all of their, the use of petroleum, you can enforce it and the Security Council can't veto it. Okay, So I explained that all to them. And then Mr. Ayat drives me up to his big mansion on top of the mountain overlooking Manila. And we're sitting there, you know, sipping lemonade afternoon, and he said, you know, would you like to meet the, the President of the Senate of the Philippines? And I said, yeah, that would be really helpful if we could get right to them, you know. And he said, well, look, let me, let me get a hold of him. He gets up and leaves. He goes in, makes a call and he comes back, he says, good, let's go down and see him. So we go get in his big Cadillac, we drive down off the hill. He walks into the, to the office of the President of the Senate, says hi to the secretary and we just walk in, we sit down. He introduces me to Senator Pimentel, who is the President of the, of the Philippine Senate. And I'm briefing him on this, how to go about, you know, spearheading organizing the association of Island States to bring on a motion under the Uniting for Peace resolution. And he's, he's listening to me, but he doesn't seem particularly enthralled about it all. And so then he, he casually gets up and goes over and he closes door and comes and sits back down. He said, well, I should tell you, he said, as the President of the, of the Senate, you know, I chair a thing called the Blue Ribbon Commission. And the Blue Ribbon Commission is charged with finding these 176 troves of treasure that have been buried in the Philippines by General Yakushima at the end of World War II. And each of them has like a hundred billion dollars dollars of Gold and silver in the platinum bars and big 50 gallon drums of diamonds and rubies and precious jewels that have all been pilfered by a special unit of the Japanese army that was deployed all during the 1930s, before World War II started, as a treasure, a war chest for the, the war.

[Jeremy Riss]

Because they were, and they were worried about being invaded or taken.

[Danny]

Well, yeah, because they, they knew that, that once the Germans had surrendered in May was just a matter of time that the US was going to invade the island, you know, and, and take them down. And so they, they were going to move all of the, the treasure out of there, out of Japan and they were going to bury it and they were going to sign General Yakushima himself to oversee all that. And they were going to send the, the cousin, I think of, of Hiroshito, you know, to a prince, Japanese prince of the royal family to accompany them. So he would know where all 176 of these treasure troves were. And so they sent them into the islands and they started moving the, the gold out in the last months of the war and they buried it. And they buried them in these like, you know, like, you know, 500, 600ft deep, you know, big wells like that they drilled. And then they were using prisoners of war to do the digging and then burying the team that dug that particular hole, burying them with the gold so that no one would know, be around to tell where.

[Jeremy Riss]

So where did, where did this gold end up?

[Danny]

It ended up in the Philippines is there's 176 troves of these.

[Jeremy Riss]

Is it still there?

[Danny]

Still there.

[Jeremy Riss]

So there is 1.5 trillion or $1.2 trillion worth of gold in the Philippines now. Oh, 1.2 trillion was just about, just.

[Danny]

12 of the troves. There's 176 of them.

[Jeremy Riss]

And they're still there.

[Danny]

Yes, they're still there.

[Jeremy Riss]

So who's guarding over them?

[Danny]

They, they don't, they can't find them. That's what the problem is. They're crazy people running around the Philippines for decades trying to find these places. No, but they don't, they don't know where they are.

[Jeremy Riss]

But you, but we have documentation that there are a lot of these.

[Danny]

Yeah, that Marcos got two of them. Yeah, by, by capturing one of the guys who was, who, who found one of them. And they drilled the eyes out of his son right in front of him with a hot poker. Marcos did. Colonel Vere, you know, did it. Who is, who's Marcos? Marcos was the president of the, of the Philippines. Whoa. That that was who, who drilled the General. Vere was his kind of chief torturer. And he tortured this guy's son right in front of him to get the guy to tell him where two of these little troves were, you know, and they got tortured. Two of them. Marco's got two of them. Each of a hundred billion dollars.

[Jeremy Riss]

What, so what does this have to do with UFO finances?

[Danny]

No, it doesn't, as such. What we know is that at the end of World War II, after they had done this, they buried them all and there were maps of them. What happened is that Lansdale, Ed Lansdale, who was in the OSS when they disbanded the OSS after the Germans surrendered in May of 45, that Truman disbanded the OSS and reassigned them all around in. Ed Lansdale who was an OSS guy, gets made the G2 in Manila, right? And he knows about the fact that this treasure has been buried around there. And so what he does is when, when General Yakushima turns himself in, you know, at the end of the war, after the dropping the bombs, you know, in the, in August 6th and 8th of 45, you know, they all surrender. So there's not going to be any kind of invasion to the. And what, what. Japan was hoping that they could get a conditional surrender and that they would be able to keep custody of the Philippines so that they'd be able to then later go in and dig these things up and have, you know, reconstitute the wealth of the Japanese empire. Right, right, that was the plan. But the US bombs them instead and says, you know, it's an unconditional surrender. You don't get the Philippines, we keep the Philippines. Right. And so, and so what happens is, is Ed Lansdale, Ed Lansdale knows that these are here. And so these, these treasure troves are there. So what he does is he, he kidnaps the driver for General Y. Who would know where some of them were, right? And so he has him tortured. This guy named Santo Maria Santa Mario. Santo Mario, yeah, it's his name. This corporal that actually conducted the torturing of this driver. And they find out where 12 of the troves are, so they punch the first one and find the hundred billion dollar dollars. I've seen photographs of the. I mean it looks, it's like a football stadium down underneath the ground, you know, that goes down like 5, 600ft. Huge cave caverns down there in stacks of gold bullion, you know, you know, armpit high, as far as you can see, you know, and big barrels of jewels everywhere. And the bottom line is they. They punch 12 of these things. And so. So land Lansdale. After punching the first one and verifying that it's for real, he gets in a plane, he flies from Manila to Singapore to see MacArthur. And he goes in to see MacArthur personally, he starts to tell him what they've got here, right? And MacArthur brings in his G2, who's Charles Willoughby. And so MacArthur orders Willoughby to go with that land Lansdale in MacArthur's private plane, and they fly him from Singapore back to Manila, back into the. The Philippines, and back into the United States, right? And they. They go to see Truman, to tell Truman that they've got $1.2 trillion in gold bullion and platinum in. In silver and jewels. And the. The Chief of Staff. Staff won't let them see him unless he. They tell him what they want to talk about. So they brief the Chief of Staff, who is Clark Clifford. So Clifford comes into the meeting with Truman, with Ed Lansdale and with Willoughby, and start to brief Truman about what they've got. Truman says, hold a second. I've got to bring Stimson in. Brings in the Secretary of War, Stimson brings him in. As soon as Stimson starts realizing what they've got, he sends for his three deputies. And he brings in Robert Lovett and Robert Anderson, both not only deputies, secretaries of war, but senior partners in Brown Brothers Harriman and John J. McCloy. And they bring them in, the three deputies, they find out what they've got here. And Truman decides that what he's going to do, he's not going to tell anybody, he's not going to tell the Congress, he's not going to tell anybody else about it. They're going to set up this secret trust they call the Anderson Trust. They set it up down in Houston, Texas, and they set up the Anderson Trust and they have all this. And they assign. We now know he's still alive. The commander, the pilot that flew the gold out.

[Jeremy Riss]

He's alive?

[Danny]

Yes, he's alive.

[Jeremy Riss]

Have you spoken to him?

[Danny]

No, I'm to. Going. Going to. Whoa. We're going to. We know right where he is now. And. And I'm gonna. I'm gonna talk to him, you know, to get this thing on the record. Whoa. But so that. So they fly, though, using US Military transports, they fly these, These. This gold all out of there, you know, these 12 troves of it, and they bring it to the International Credit bank in Geneva, Switzerland, and they deposit it there. And then they issue gold certificates on It. Which are like bearer bonds, you know, and they, they make. They distribute the. Them to right wing anti communist candidates for mayors and stuff after World War II, you know, all throughout Europe. Whoa. And there. So there's this whole covert program of.

[Jeremy Riss]

So this has nothing to do with the UFOs?

[Danny]

No. Oh, no.

[Jeremy Riss]

Okay.

[Danny]

No, no, no. But what it is is, it's. It's a mechanism for secretly funding covert operations.

[Jeremy Riss]

Yeah.

[Danny]

That are going on after World War II when the CIA is set up and they're all funding this stuff and that's. Dulles knows about this money that's there. And so that they're. They're using this for covert operations.

[Jeremy Riss]

Interesting. You know, and. Yeah, that's wild. That's wild.

[Danny]

It's. It's totally separate from the, The UFO stuff.

[Jeremy Riss]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think Chris Ramsey, who just did a great interview with you.

[Danny]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Riss]

Told me maybe he thought it had something to do with UFOs. So. No, I'll use this as a opportunity to say, Chris, why'd you lead me astray? But go watch your interview with Chris because I thought that was great. I don't know if you've seen it, but it was fantastic. It was really great.

[Danny]

I don't see most of these things. I just, you know, when I. Yeah. With somebody that I trust anyway, that I can just tell you.

[Jeremy Riss]

Yeah.

[Danny]

Until it's done there. So I know that you guys will tell other people.

[Jeremy Riss]

Check it out. Area 52. Yeah. In that interview, you actually talk about an interview with a live alien being.

[Danny]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Riss]

At S4 in Area 51.

[Danny]

That's right.

[Jeremy Riss]

And yeah. You care to go into any detail around that?

[Danny]

Well, yeah, I got at Jesuit Headquarters. Let me see. It must be about. Let's see when that would be. It was 94. That I'd already done the, the John Mack stuff. So it was. It was like 2000-2000-2001-2002, something like that, that I get a call from a guy in northern Minnesota and he's on his deathbed. Well, he's actually in hospice. Right. And he wants me to come and see him. There's something. And he says that he worked directly with Project Blue Book. And so I said, oh, okay. So I fly there and fly into Minneapolis and rental a car and drive up into this little teeny town up in northern Minnesota. And there he is. He's at this little hospice place with. He's got one of these little rollers with all the little bottles on it, stuff in his nose. And he starts telling me how he was a, a clerk typist. Army. U.S. army clerk typist. Assigned to this special unit of Project Blue Book that was focusing just on the, the 700 or so cases of incidents which they couldn't explain away. They were just too credible. The sources were too credible. They had. Too many people had seen it.

[Jeremy Riss]

What was his name?

[Danny]

His name was Oscar Wolf.

[Jeremy Riss]

Oscar Wolf or Oscar Lang?

[Danny]

Oscar Wolf, yes. Oscar Wolf is who he was. And he, he starts telling me about it all and goes into detail about it. Now it's one of these bizarre things because I, my, my office people said you got to bring a camera. You got to bring a camera to get this guy if he's going to give you a desktop. Did you record him? Yeah, I brought the little thing. I set it all up on the little table and so I had the whole, the whole thing recorded, recorded and it got corrupted somehow.

[Jeremy Riss]

But I think Jeremy Corbell might have recorded an interview with this guy separately later.

[Danny]

He did and he also, he also talked with Richard Dolan.

[Jeremy Riss]

Okay, so we have him on record.

[Danny]

That's right.

[Jeremy Riss]

Oscar Wilde.

[Danny]

And well, they, but the thing is they didn't press into them as far as I know about this incident.

[Jeremy Riss]

Oh really?

[Danny]

And he, and he told me about the fact that he. Because I kept, they missed the, they buried the lead. Well, yeah, because I was interrogating the, out of him. You know, I was just press down on him because I figured he was.

[Jeremy Riss]

On his dead bed.

[Danny]

So, so, you know, don't, don't mess with me. So shape up, you know, he's dying. I could have been once I could have said, you know, if you want any absolution, you know, but I didn't do that part.

[Jeremy Riss]

So, so, so, man, the Jesuits are thugs.

[Danny]

That's being too tough, you know. And so, so, so the bottom line is he tells me that this, that, that the reason that he has developed this kind of special relationship with the commander of this unit that is assigned specifically to investigate the, the, the, the, these 700 other cases. Right. Is because he and the commander were both part of this really fundamentalist Christian sect called the Worldwide Church of God. I mean apparently really hardcore fundamentalist crowd crowd. And, and, and so that he stayed there for years when they were working on his people would come and go in the staff and do field investigations and all that. But he kept staying there and keeping records. And then his commander comes in and said that he is going to be going to Area 51 and wanted, wanted Oscar to come with him. And so he did he went with him. But it turns out it was not just Area 51 it was at. So they actually went all the way to S4 and went down into big elevators and went in and he said he saw like three or four.

[Jeremy Riss]

By the way, S4 isn't supposed to officially exist. So it's important the only versions where it exists. You have Bob Lazar, you have a guy named Dan Barish, and you have this story.

[Danny]

That's right.

[Jeremy Riss]

And I think we're going to get some more Corroboration soon that S4 does in fact exist. And then all of a sudden you start asking questions about these specific stories and it starts to up, blow, blow your mind. Okay, so you're going down.

[Danny]

So, so he goes down and he says and he sees like there's three or four UFOs that are just, they, they've got little, like little garages like these, these little chambers.

[Jeremy Riss]

It's the same story as Bob Lazar.

[Danny]

And they're just, they're just hovering in there. They just said they were just, they're just hovering all by themselves inside these little garages like that were underground. He said he saw them and then they went in and his, his command commander was going to be quote, interviewing a live ET Guy, right. So he goes with him and they come into this other area where there were military guys there. He said, but there was this room, like a standalone room with these big two way mirrors that, that you could see through from the outside. And he said he saw the E T guy, but he was like, you know, five and a half feet tall. Tall. No, wasn't a little tiny short guy. It was a kind of, a kind of life size guy, big, big head, big eyes. And he was in this kind of jumpsuit that they'd provided for him. And he was, he was very cooperative that he wasn't being.

[Jeremy Riss]

Speaking English or.

[Danny]

No, no, he was, it was all telepathic. It was all telepathic.

[Jeremy Riss]

So they just, he just saw them sitting across from.

[Danny]

He could see, he could see his commander walk in, but he would, didn't go because he said, he said, I thought it was demonic. That's what he said. He said I thought it was demonic and I didn't want to go near him. And so he stayed outside and. But he could see his, his commander having this kind of telepathic communication going on with him. Right.

[Jeremy Riss]

His commander was a fundamentalist Christian.

[Danny]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jeremy Riss]

And so how, what was the communication like that?

[Danny]

That he didn't say. He just said that was telepathic he could tell that they were having this telepathic. Well, he probably afterwards got it confirmed by his, his command commander that it was all telepathic. They weren't talking. You could just see that they were having this kind of communication.

[Jeremy Riss]

Did he seem honest to you?

[Danny]

Oh, yes. Oh, yes.

[Jeremy Riss]

So you think that happened?

[Danny]

Yeah, I do think that happened. I think that happened, you know.

[Jeremy Riss]

And so you think we have alien beings at S4?

[Danny]

Well, no, no. All I, all I know is I think that there was one there, okay, at that, at that time and that he saw him and that he, he stayed outside, outside. And the military guys that were there showed him these, these cards. They had, he said they had these index cards that it didn't say whether they were typed up or printed, but they had the questions and answers that were there. Things they'd ask him. Right. So they had a little record of interviews that had been conducted with him. And in one of them he said that they asked him, you know, so where are you guys from? What do you, what are you doing here? And he said that, you know, he was part of a group of people, beings from different star systems in our galaxy, he said, and that their job was to go around monitoring where life had started in different planets inside the galaxy in that, that was what they did and that's what they were doing here. And he said, they asked him, well, who's, who tasked you to do that? You know, who's in charge of that? He said, well, it's what you people would refer to as God, but it's very different than you think.

[Jeremy Riss]

Then how is it different?

[Danny]

He didn't say. And he said, but I didn't believe him, he said, because I thought he was demonic. So I never told anybody, I never told anybody about this.

[Jeremy Riss]

Have you ever heard the term Collins Elite?

[Danny]

Yes.

[Jeremy Riss]

Do you think that this kind of fundamentalist Christian commander was involved in the Collins Elite?

[Danny]

No, it didn't, didn't seem to be. This was kind of an individual thing with him and this guy.

[Jeremy Riss]

Because they also thought that the, the alien stuff was kind of demonic.

[Danny]

Oh, yeah, no, no, that. There's, there's a whole, a whole stream of that in the fundamentalist world. You know, I've got, you know, the, Sarah's sister in law, you know, and she will, she thinks the whole thing is demonic. Have. That's, it's a, it's a meme.

[Jeremy Riss]

Have you ever interviewed. I mean, I'm sure part of it is and part of it might be angelic and you know, it's like, probably.

[Danny]

I think that it's because people don't understand that whole part. People don't understand angelic.

[Jeremy Riss]

It's probably good and bad is probably way too simplistic of a frame for whatever they're operating on. And I'm sure they're good ones that, incidentally, do violence to you because of their kind of, you know, field or whatever. Once you, you know, it's like St. Francis. St. Francis of Assisi has a vision of this, you know, kind of, you know, winged angel being. It was a flaming torch in the original translation, but it's a seraphim, and it does violence to him, but it's like it's. That becomes part of his conversion towards God and it ends up sort of killing him. But I think the sort of good, bad, you know, dichotomy is probably an earthly one that.

[Danny]

Yeah, well, there's. There's. I mean, an awful lot of anthropomorphic projection, you know, onto these folks because they. Because they're so much like us. I mean, you know, that. That's a real challenge.

[Jeremy Riss]

Have you ever met an alien?

[Danny]

No.

[Jeremy Riss]

Would you want to?

[Danny]

Sure.

[Jeremy Riss]

Really?

[Danny]

Sure. Yeah. I'd like to sit down and chat with them.

[Jeremy Riss]

Yeah.

[Danny]

And actually figure out, you know, how to kind of represent us.

[Jeremy Riss]

Yeah.

[Danny]

You know, in. In a full way about good and bad stuff that we do, all of us, you know, but try to figure out what the criteria are for trying to establish a relationship of trust with them and how we could trust them. What can they do to kind of assuage the concerns that people have about them.

[Jeremy Riss]

Yeah.

[Danny]

In their kind of secretive ways, you know.

[Jeremy Riss]

Have you ever seen. So you've seen picture of a ufo. Ufo, which was in the blue book files in a skiff in D.C. and you even trace.

[Danny]

It wasn't skiff, though.

[Jeremy Riss]

Oh, it wasn't a skiff. Okay.

[Danny]

It was just. It was just the room that they had downstairs in the Madison.

[Jeremy Riss]

And you traced the symbols that were along the. The edge of the craft?

[Danny]

I did that.

[Jeremy Riss]

Have you ever seen anomalous material?

[Danny]

No, I've seen photographs of the. Of this thing that Hal had. I've seen photographs.

[Jeremy Riss]

What. What thing that Hal had?

[Danny]

That piece of metal that's got like 17 different layers. Layers of. Of different.

[Jeremy Riss]

Is that magnesium bismuth?

[Danny]

Yes.

[Jeremy Riss]

Yeah.

[Danny]

That thing.

[Jeremy Riss]

I've just seen the layers thinner than a micron or whatever.

[Danny]

Yeah, that's right. That's the one I've seen photographs.

[Jeremy Riss]

What do you think of, you know, Hal put offs this sort of Godfather, architect of the space. He's just, you know, seems to have his hand in everything. What do you think of Hal and his role and kind of Ufology?

[Danny]

I think, I think Hal is. Is more knowledgeable in depth about this whole thing than most any of the people that you would meet, you know, can and know. You know, in that. That.

[Jeremy Riss]

Do you think he says everything he knows?

[Danny]

No. Oh, no, no. He doesn't even pretend to. No, he doesn't even pretend to say everything he knows.

[Jeremy Riss]

Do you think he's worked on a craft or seen a craft?

[Danny]

Oh, I'm sure he. He has.

[Jeremy Riss]

You're sure he has?

[Danny]

No, I'm completely sure he has.

[Jeremy Riss]

Really?

[Danny]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Riss]

Do you think he knows how they fly?

[Danny]

No, he has a better idea of how they fly than most anybody. You know, there may be some technicians that, that know more about some details.

[Jeremy Riss]

Do you think he understands a lot about sort of, I don't know, the mental networks and that sort of thing? Do you think he's sort of clued into that?

[Danny]

Oh, yeah. Oh, I mean, that's his main major focus from Stargate is. Is. Yeah.

[Jeremy Riss]

What's the connection between remote viewing and, you know, so you had these guys in the remote viewing program, like Stargate, you know, formed by the CIA and later run out of the DIA 1972. He, you know that some of these guys like Ingo Swan would like remote view alien bases on the moon and things like that.

[Danny]

But do you think I talked to Ingo about it? Did you? Yeah, I spent like a whole day with Ingo.

[Jeremy Riss]

No way.

[Danny]

Apartment in New York.

[Jeremy Riss]

What, what did Ingo say about the alien basis?

[Danny]

It was interesting that, that my, my access to him came through the Church of Scientology thing. You know, that. That's a big deal. Yeah. That Church of science that help put off a church. Scientology. And, and Targ Russell Targ was Church Scientology. All kinds of the guys were trying.

[Jeremy Riss]

To catch people up. You kind of. What is dedication? The thing that drives me every day as a dad is we call him Dae Date for short. Every day he's hungry for something, whether it's attention, affection, knowledge. And there's this huge responsibility in making sure that when he's no longer under my wing that he's a good person. I want him to be able to sit back one day and go, we worked together. We did a good job. That's dedication. Find out [e-mail] brought to you by the US Department of Health and Human Services and the ED Council on L. Ron Hubbard's Favor by, you know, there was a case against them around, you know, special exempt, you know, as a, as a religious organization. And there were, you know, I think they were, they were being bugged for a little bit and they were sort of trying to pug the federal government. They were trying to track the federal government.

[Danny]

They had the door of their headquarters chainsawed off right by the, by the irs.

[Jeremy Riss]

And then you, you were sort of helping them out and then you made it, you were about to like sign on formally as their counsel and then you asked them for their.

[Danny]

No, no, that wouldn't be the way to look. I was asking. Asked to be there.

[Jeremy Riss]

You were asked to be there.

[Danny]

And I said, look, as a condition precedent to even begin to talk with Ron Hubbard, because he wanted to meet with me and try to persuade me to become the lawyer for him and his wife, specifically, not necessarily for the church, but for him and his wife. And that the head guardian from the, from North America came to my office at the Jesuit headquarters and said that Hubbard would like to talk with you about becoming the lawyer for him and his wife Susan. And I said, well, I said, look, as a condition precedent to even being willing to meet with him to talk with him, I'd have to be given permission to have access to whatever records or information there is anywhere in the world about the church. And I said, that's, I assume that's a total non starter, right?

[Jeremy Riss]

And they give you their records.

[Danny]

Within a week they came back and said, it's a deal. What do you want to see? And so I.

[Jeremy Riss]

So you could query anybody's E meter results?

[Danny]

Yeah, anything I could get, anything I wanted. And so they flew me down to Florida and the big blue cube they've got down there, this big huge blue building. And so I go in and there's the head of the Guardian's office, U.S. guardian's office, and the international head of the guardians, you know, out of the uk and they say, so what do you want to see? And I said, well, first what I want to see is the file you got on me in. The American guy said, no. Why no? We've got. I don't know. And I said, excuse me, I said, what do you think I fell off some melon wagon somewhere? I said, you know, you're going to have me to be L. Ron Hubbard's attorney and you don't have any file on me at all. And the international guy says, go get him the file, you know, so they bring me the file. I'm going, how deep was It.

[Jeremy Riss]

How much stuff did they have?

[Danny]

Well, they had. They had, you know, pictures of me. What was. You know, I was. I was a Jesuit candidate. I was at the headquarters. You know, they would follow me around. They showed me in different restaurants, you know, and meeting with people, you know, Mark Lane and some of the other guys, you know, they.

[Jeremy Riss]

So Mark Lane, he was like Kennedy assassination investigator.

[Danny]

Yeah, yeah. Rush to judgment. He was the author of that, you know. So, you know, they had all these of kinds. Kind of things. And so I said, okay, good. I just wanted to make sure that it was. That it was accurate, you know. And then so the international guy says to me, so, okay, so what else do you want to see? I said, I want to see the three most sensitive files in the entire world, according to you as the head of the Guardian's office, you know. And he just went, oh, fuck. He said. I said, so. So either you get them or not, you know. So he gets up and is gone and revels is her comes back and he ends up laying one of the files in front of me. And I started looking at it. And it was all reports by Ingo Swann. Ingo Swann was filing reports with the head Guardian office in the UK about the entire internal operations of the Office of Naval Intelligence remote viewing program that they were doing. He was just giving him all the information.

[Jeremy Riss]

So he was a spy or something?

[Danny]

Yeah, he was a spy for the Church of Scientology, for the Church of Science, over and against the Office of Naval Intelligence.

[Jeremy Riss]

Why would he do that?

[Danny]

Because he was a high level clearer. That was his loyalty group.

[Jeremy Riss]

He was loyal to them prior to.

[Danny]

That's right. That's right. Over and above. Over.

[Jeremy Riss]

Because I always. I always thought put off was like looking into that stuff because he was like an NSA guy before he was a Scientology guy. So I thought put off was just like tasked to like looking into this, you know, very, you know, paragovernmental intelligence organization that is Scientology that's seen as a threat. And so, you know, put. Get put off in there?

[Danny]

No, this was the stuff. I mean, the Church of Scientology, you're not aware of it, that their highest principle in the Church of Scientology is all to do with UFOs.

[Jeremy Riss]

Really?

[Danny]

Yeah. They believe that there is a major confrontation going on between the human, like people from the Pleiades over and against the Reptilians from Zeta Reticuli, and that there's a major confrontation going on over which of them is going to actually assert major relations with our planet. Do you agree with that worldview No, I don't.

[Jeremy Riss]

But Swan was like fully in with the Scientologists, giving information on the Office of Naval Intelligence, all of it. And so you're also saying that there's a remote viewing program that was deeper than Stargate, because that wasn't Office of Naval Intelligence. That was. That's right, DIA after CIA.

[Danny]

No, this, this was a program. And Pat Price, I'll give you some idea how deep this goes. Pat Price, you know, they had the file. Ingo Swann had the file that Pat Price had gotten so good at remote viewing that they assigned him a task of. They gave him the exact longitude and latitude down to the minute and second location. And he was assigned an artist so that he didn't have to do these hen scratches trying to show it. But he was, and he was saying, you know, I. So what's there? So there's this major building here, and there's big, big fence up there with razor wire on the top of it and everything. And his facilitator was, was Russell Targ. Uh huh. And so Russell was saying, okay, now can you get inside the fence? Can you see anything inside the fence? And he goes, okay, all right. Yeah, I can, I can see inside the fence. There's just a snowman's land there. Can you get to the front door of this place? And he said, all right. He said, okay, all right, I got it. Yeah, okay, I'm in front of the front door. He said, can you go inside the building? He said, let me see here. Okay, yeah, yeah, I can see, I can see inside the building here. He said, so what do you see? See this big long hallway? There's some doors on both sides. And Russell said, now go, go down to the third door on the left. He said, okay, can you go into the room? Yeah, I can go into the room. So what do you see? Well, there's big desk there and chairs and stuff. There's a big file cabinet over in the right corner over here. Go over to the file cabin, goes over the file cabinet, there's a second drawer, first file, real read it to him. And he did. What was it? Well, that's not the point. The point is that he did it and he can do it. You know, it turns out it's an American facility. It's a top CIA security facility. Penetrating.

[Jeremy Riss]

That's insane then. So anybody with remote viewing skills can get the nuclear codes?

[Danny]

Not anybody, but Pat Price could.

[Jeremy Riss]

The best.

[Danny]

So that's Pat Price, right. And in the same file, it plus points out that Pat Price had actually evolved to the point where they could take a full photograph of a boomer class Russian submarine, nuclear submarine, and show it to him and say, where is it right now? And he would give him right down to the exact longitude and latitude down to the minute and second of exactly where that is. And he visualized the whole thing and told them exactly where. Where it was. But there was a huge UFO right over the top of the water where that thing was. And it was tracking it and monitoring it. And he had it in the file. You know, I'm going, whoa. I said, this is. This is pretty. Pretty wild. And then I. I said, okay, so what else have you got? You know? He says, well, here. And he said. I said, show me the. Show me the second file. And he showed me the second file. And it was again from Ingo Swann. It was a deep inside report from Ingo Swann that they had taken Pat Price in the program up to southern Canada, south central Canada, just north of the state of Michigan. And he was brought into this little facility. It was like this little domed little building, and it had these big, huge dishes on top, these communication dishes on top. And they brought him in, and they set him down, and they put this helmet on him, and they had him think a particular message, and they turned all the antenna down to the northern peninsula of Michigan, that little section that's in there, and had him be telepathically projecting. You know, when it comes time for you to file your. Your national. Your US Income tax forms next year, file them in this little post office box down this little town down in West Virginia, and 85% of the people did it next year.

[Jeremy Riss]

No way.

[Danny]

Absolutely way.

[Jeremy Riss]

That's insane.

[Danny]

You keep saying that.

[Jeremy Riss]

So you're saying. You're saying that. You're saying Scientology had some sort of mind mass mind control.

[Danny]

That wasn't the Church of Scientology.

[Jeremy Riss]

What was it?

[Danny]

This was the program.

[Jeremy Riss]

That was the program. The Office of Naval Intelligence.

[Danny]

This was the program.

[Jeremy Riss]

But that's like. The implications of that are crazy.

[Danny]

No, they're profound.

[Jeremy Riss]

Yeah.

[Danny]

And so then I. From then.

[Jeremy Riss]

So you met Ingo Swann?

[Danny]

Yeah. I didn't say no to them then, but as soon as I saw the file on the Fair Game, I knew I wasn't going to do it. But I had the opportunity to go see Ingo, So I contacted Ingo and said, you know, I'm being asked to be the Lord for. For Hubbard, and, you know, I want to chat with you. So I went to see him at his apartment in New York. And we go all the way upstairs up onto the roof of his apartment. He's got there. And then I started talking to him and I, I didn't want to freak him out over the fact that he was clearly violating his security clearance, you know, by providing these reports to the Church of Scientific Scientology.

[Jeremy Riss]

So he was using his remote viewing from Stargate in the reports that he was giving to the Church of Scientology?

[Danny]

Yeah, he, he was filing not only about his work, but Pat Price's work, you know, the other stuff, other things that he was doing, he was reporting.

[Jeremy Riss]

So he's basically like he was a back channel spy to the Church of Scientology on behalf of them vis a vis the.

[Danny]

It was federal government. It was clearly his. His. His major allegiance. Loyalty.

[Jeremy Riss]

Wow.

[Danny]

Allegiance was to them.

[Jeremy Riss]

Did you ask him about. Because he wrote a book called Penetration about seeing bases, alien bases on the moon.

[Danny]

I hadn't seen. I hadn't seen that.

[Jeremy Riss]

You hadn't seen that. Did you get into the alien thing at all with him?

[Danny]

Oh, yeah, because, because, because he, he. In one of his reports had had a report in there about. It was. It was how put off. No, it wasn't how. It was Targ, Russell Targ had been facilitating a remote viewing by Pat Price when they, that when they stepped it up from him being able to remote view things in real time to be able to be shown a photograph of a Russian Boomer submarine and then he could look. Locate it, he could figure out exactly where it was, down to the minute and second of longitude and latitude. I mean, which was the big deal, you know? I mean, that's the big deal.

[Jeremy Riss]

Yeah.

[Danny]

And, and, and when they found it, when they found it and verified that it was there through the remote viewing others to find there was a UFO hovering right over the top of where the Russian Boomer submarine was going on the water. And it was monitoring it. And, and I just, when I saw it, I just went, whoa.

[Jeremy Riss]

Did you see a photo?

[Danny]

No.

[Jeremy Riss]

Okay.

[Danny]

No. They just told me about was a written report that they. That it was there and it was just my. It was following right along where the Russian Boomer submarine was going, you know, and that was the only piece that was in there except when I, when I started interrogating people, you know, because I, I wanted to. Wanted to get as much advantage as I could of the opportunity that I had here to get information. So I got to meet the guy who was legal counsel for the church to ask him to explain to me, you know, what the net. Net of all this was. You know, what were they up to here? And what it is, is that they, they considered themselves entitled to being considered a sovereign entity because the Catholic Church was so the Catholic Church has this kind of status of being a sovereign entity entity in a nation basically because they have Vatican state. Right. So they, they insisted that as a matter of first amendment equal protection that they were entitled to take unto themselves the same status. And so that's what caused them to be engaged in this fair game program. They believed that they had a right to engage in like wet operations, you know, like the United States does and Russia does and all of that in which they asserted, you know, the Vatican does as they said.

[Jeremy Riss]

Do you think, do you think that the Vatican and that specifically maybe the Knights of Malta had anything to do with the UFO kind of reverse engineering or transport or oversight?

[Danny]

I think that an element of the Knights of Malta have something to do with everything.

[Jeremy Riss]

And why do you think that?

[Danny]

Because of the people that there were in this, this Monte Carlo group. There's a thing called the Monte Carlo group that is that the top, top of the entire Nice and Malta structure. And I discovered that there were non Catholics in it, which didn't make any sense to me at all. Knights of Malt is a Catholic men's club like thing. But there's this high executive council that turned out that Henry Kissinger was on it and George Bush senior was that. Who's Episcopal?

[Jeremy Riss]

That's amazing. Well, if I, but if I were to play devil's advocate, I could have said Council, Foreign Relations, Bilderberg, you know, like I could name five other organizations that those two guys were a part of. Any other reasons to believe they had something to do with the ufo?

[Danny]

No, just. No, just not specifically. But I'm saying is that anybody who is at that level dealing with international things would have, have to be involved in this. There's no way that you're not going to be involved in this because I mean you could be involved in all the other stuff and it wouldn't make any difference ultimately. You know, I mean this whole thing could, to use a phrase, trump you know, everything.

[Jeremy Riss]

What is the, is there kind of a mandate or you know, constitution for the Knights of Malta? I mean the, the only references I really have are, you know, Humphrey Bogart, the Maltese Falcon. They were supposed to be the guardians of this Maltese Falcon and I, they're also the heirs to the Hospitaliers. You know, there was the kind of Templars back in the day, sort of, you know, pre 13th century when they were, they were disbanded, I guess, 14th century. And then they were kind of the guardians of these pilgrims that would go to the Temple Mount in, you know, Jerusalem. And then the medic side of that was the hospitality. And so that sort of. There's some lineage between that and, you know, Knights of Malta, but otherwise I don't really understand, you know, what they do. I know they have sovereign status and they can kind of.

[Danny]

They do, yeah. A military. They're a military order. And they. They're a sovereign. They're a sovereign military order. And it's. It's. It's very clear that, you know, they're guys like. Reinhard Galen was in the Knights. Knights of Malta.

[Jeremy Riss]

He was a former Nazi.

[Danny]

Yeah, Reinhard Galen is the guy that was the head of the anti Soviet and anti Eastern block intelligence for the Third Reich and also became the Director of Intelligence for West Germany at the end of World War II. You know, at the behest of our OSS, we got him put in there, you know, and Shackley worked directly with him, you know. Yeah. And. And. And also Otto Scorseni, another former Nazi. Yeah. Otto Scorzeni, who ran the rat line, you know, of. Of smuggling them all out of there. And they were Knights of Malta passports that were used. Did you.

[Jeremy Riss]

I mean, you're a Jesuit. Did you ever use your Jesuit connections to figure out more about the Magenta Crash, which was supposedly recovered, you know, according to David Grush, it was recovered in Lombardy in 1933. And I believe the Cardinal of Milan was also of Knight of Malta at the time. And the UFO supposedly made itself to the Vatican, where it was held for a while. And then I think Pope Pius VI maybe then, you know, transferred it over to the U.S. pope Pius XI. Okay. Transferred it over to the U.S. so do you know anything about that?

[Danny]

No, I didn't, actually. It's interesting that.

[Jeremy Riss]

Do you believe that's a real case or.

[Danny]

It's interesting. I didn't know about it.

[Jeremy Riss]

Okay.

[Danny]

I didn't know about it until comparatively recently.

[Jeremy Riss]

Okay.

[Danny]

So that one never came across the radar. Yeah, So I had. I. I had been pretty well locked down on.

[Jeremy Riss]

You gotta hit up your Vatican contact.

[Danny]

Yeah, right. Yeah, right. Those that are still alive, anyway, you know, I mean, they're all dead. I couldn't believe it. I mean, virtually everybody that was there in the staff when I was there have all passed away. It's totally bizarre. But the bottom line is I didn't know about that one at all. And no one has ever said anything to me about it. And when I talk to Johan, who was the head of the Vatican archives, you know, he's just. Always just smiled. I mean, does he give you a smile?

[Jeremy Riss]

A smile of quiet knowing?

[Danny]

Oh, yeah.

[Jeremy Riss]

Okay.

[Danny]

No, he knows because. Because I sent the letters to them from Jesuit headquarters to ask for access for President Carter.

[Jeremy Riss]

So he doesn't give you a befuddled laughing smile or something?

[Danny]

No. It'd be perfectly easy for them to say, look, there's nothing to this. You're crazy.

[Jeremy Riss]

Okay.

[Danny]

You know? But no, he knows. He knows that I know interesting that stuff is there.

[Jeremy Riss]

Interesting.

[Danny]

And he just isn't going to let me have it.

[Jeremy Riss]

So you. You were the lawyer for John Mack, who's the head of the Harvard Psychiatry Department and childhood friend of Bud Hopkins. Towards the end of his career, he started to take very seriously these experiencers. People would experience abductions or alien contact, and often it would come out in hypnotic regression or through holotropic breath work, which was one of his favorite kind of modalities. And you have his final manuscript?

[Danny]

I do.

[Jeremy Riss]

And he writes about. I heard at the end of his life he started to get into Reptilians and was like, interested in Reptilians specifically. I don't know. Is there anything interesting in that final manuscript that sort of shows his overall worldview at the end of this, you know, decade plus long inquiry into the UFO alien question?

[Danny]

Yeah. He really views the entire UFO ET issue as a window opening onto the functioning of worldviews and our human family to really explain an awful. I had something to do with that because that's what I was talking to him about. He and I, just before he got killed, we were planning on trying to set up a thing called.

[Jeremy Riss]

When you say he got killed killed, was that. Do you think it was intentionally or accidental?

[Danny]

Yeah, yeah. No, in Europe. Yeah. I was on that within hours after it happened. So dug it out, knew who the guy was. The guy's still in prison that. That ran him down. He was just drunk and, you know. Yeah. And so. So the. The. That John and I were talking about, the fact that. That this was a. Actually the name of his man manuscript is When Worldviews Collide. And you know the Velikovsky that, you know, from When Worlds Collide. So that's what he did. Collide.

[Jeremy Riss]

Yeah.

[Danny]

In the.

[Jeremy Riss]

What was the Velikovsky. What was the one. Worlds Collide.

[Danny]

What was that about? When Worlds Collide is an old classic piece that Velikovsky wrote. It's the theory that the asteroid belt is a. Another planet. That was here in our, in our solar solar system and it collided with the moon or something. I just remember it believes that's right.

[Jeremy Riss]

It's like the Kyber Belt or something.

[Danny]

The whole asteroid belt is really that planet all blown up into shrapnel basically all through the asteroid belt.

[Jeremy Riss]

And so Mack was saying, when worldviews collide like the kind of Western materialist, reductionist worldview, and this animistic worldview or something, one that encapsulated life beyond humans, if you want to shatter the Western mental structures, the Western mind, so to speak, which is now permeating the whole.

[Danny]

Earth in its materialist dualistic philosophy.

[Jeremy Riss]

The way you do it is you take something that's supposed to be in the spirit world.

[Danny]

Because even in the west we can make allowance for the spirit world and we can study it through mythology, through religion, through imagination, through poetry. But the one unforgivable sin to the.

[Jeremy Riss]

Western mind is when something that should.

[Danny]

Be in the spirit world transgresses and.

[Jeremy Riss]

Shows up in the physical world.

[Danny]

That traffic is the cardinal sin for the Western mind. So it has great power to shatter the belief structure of the Western mind when that occurs.

[Jeremy Riss]

And that's precisely what's occurring in this abduction for.

[Danny]

And, and so he started really starting to perceive things because I, I was some assistance in that because I, I had, you know, done the master's degree work and then started the PhD work at Harvard on that very issue, trying to under, trying to understand things. When you get a really complex issue, what you want to do is figure out what the kind of operational pieces of it are so you can get them spread out in front you of, of just like a plane wreck, you know, you want to kind of reassemble the pieces that you can recover and take a look at it. And what this does is it tends to shake down into this octave of human worldviews. You know, that the only one aspect of which is their political manifestation, you know, that runs from right to left, you know, from the authoritarian to the reactionary to the conservative, conservative to the moderate to the liberal to the progressive to the utopianist. You know, that there's, there's a, there are integrated worldviews, they're internally self referentially consistent, you know, and that they're all predicated upon the answers that you provide to these four pillar questions about the origins of the universe. The kind of end product, the teleological outcome of the universe is projected. You know, what the analogy relationship between consciousness and the material manifestation of reality is. The big One. And the epistemological question is, what means do we have at our disposal as human beings by means of which you can possibly answer questions like that? Are we limited to our five senses, or do we have other faculties? Do we have other kind of charisms that we have access to that have been hidden or suppressed? Those are the fundamental questions. Those are the cosmic questions. And since we don't have the definitive answer to any of those yet, the way. As long. As long as you have a internally and self referentially consistent answer to all four of those questions, you have a worldview. It's a systematic worldview. And if you can discern what the common principle is, that makes all of them similar to each other. The answers are consistent with each other. You apply that process principle to any question that you confront in making your judgments, and then you have a philosophy. That's what a philosophy is. It's a consistent application of a single principle that is generic to all four of these fundamental questions. If you can do that and that. That's what a philosophy is. And then you have a sub component of that, your political philosophy. And then you have a mode of spiritual experience expression which is generic to that. That's where you get these major world religions that are generic to a particular worldview. You know, and so I would. I was starting to explain all that to him that. That I discovered, you know, when I actually went back to talk to John Rawls, who's the head of the department of philosophy at Harvard, you know, when I was running into these conflicts that I was having with the different lawyers in the firms where I was, you know, they all started. Seem to be functioning on some different wave.

[Jeremy Riss]

So what did. What did Mac think, you know, when. What would happen when worldviews collided and when he.

[Danny]

He. He believes that. That it's absolutely clear that there's. That the initial response that we have as human beings, as homo sapien, to an encounter with an extraterrestrial being, is that it? It kind of sh. Shatters the kind of walls of the room, the mansion, of our worldview, you know, that all of a sudden the things are so completely different than anything you'd ever assume before, that your world can fall apart, as it were. And so people. And people have this kind of cellular response when you find yourself actually confronted with an extraterrestrial being that your whole ce, Your system reacts, you know, in a kind of fight or flight way that your subconscious doesn't have any control over. It's just. You just freak out, you know, and, and so we. So we started deciding that what we wanted to do is help train people that had consistent repeated encounters, you know, because we found that to be a fairly common theme, that if you've been abducted once, you've been usually abducted more than once. Right. And so that if it's going to happen again, to try to train a person through holotropic breathing to kind of just calm themselves down and to get centered, to try to get mastery over that kind of cellular response that your body has. Because all of us that are alive right now are the end of the chain of survivors. I mean, that's what's distinguished us, you know, that our lineage have all survived.

[Jeremy Riss]

Yeah.

[Danny]

And gotten us through to.

[Jeremy Riss]

That's fascinating though. He's talking about almost like a manual for being physiolog ready for contact.

[Danny]

That's right. Absolutely right. To try to overcome the cellular imprint that we have in us to react.

[Jeremy Riss]

The allergic reaction.

[Danny]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Riss]

And it is like if you're, you know, like the three body problem, if you're in the dark forest and you are afraid of making contact, it's actually adaptive to sort of hide yourself. You would want to know that the other side is sort of receptive and stable and going to be okay.

[Danny]

Yes, yes.

[Jeremy Riss]

You know, when you. When you appear.

[Danny]

Oh, that's right.

[Jeremy Riss]

Because if you, you know.

[Danny]

Cause they get. They get in trouble. I mean, you know, Karen, one of the. Used to throw things at them. I mean, she'd throw lamps.

[Jeremy Riss]

She was one of Max Station.

[Danny]

She's one of the ladies.

[Jeremy Riss]

Yeah. It's a little crazy. Yeah.

[Danny]

And she was one of the first people who really got the. The holotropic breathing training.

[Jeremy Riss]

So are you going to release this book or what?

[Danny]

What do you.

[Jeremy Riss]

What do you. What are you planning on doing?

[Danny]

I haven't. I haven't ever. I. He just gave it to me because he was getting set to go to England to do this lecture on T.E. lawrence and wanted me to go through it because it covers a lot of the encounter we had with the faculty committee. It's kind of his account of what happened.

[Jeremy Riss]

He was such an interesting guy. Well, he won a Pulitzer Prize for his book called the Prince of Disorder.

[Danny]

Which is about the Prince of our Disorder.

[Jeremy Riss]

Prince of our disorder. About T.E. lawrence, who's Lawrence of Arabia.

[Danny]

Yeah. It was a psychobiography of Lawrence, who.

[Jeremy Riss]

I believe believe was. He was gay and he had been sort of sexually assaulted multiple times. And he had this sort of crazy. And then he led this uprising, you know, and he's A fascinating character. Fascinating character. And Mac himself was such a fascinating character. I feel like his search for the UFO and alien question was kind of motivated by some autobiographical stuff with his mother, who I think, did she die during childbirth or when she was very young.

[Danny]

In fact, his mother played this really kind of major role and. Okay, because he, when, when he first got dragged up, when he first started encountering these high level military officials that were ordered to get a psychiatric exam to try to deter them from really pressing any further on this, it was the first thing that would happen, that they'd be ordered to get a psychiatric exam.

[Jeremy Riss]

Because they'd seen an alien or something.

[Danny]

Yeah, because they wanted to file a report. They wanted to file a report about, you know, a UFO encounter. And they were always told that, you know, you don't want to do this, this is not good for your career.

[Jeremy Riss]

Did John Mack, was he kind of abreast of any of the UFO stuff from his Navy experience or. No, it came later.

[Danny]

Nothing. No, he was, he was a complete agnostic. Yeah, you know, to start with. And then he got sent these like, like Arnie Arnelson, who was the, the, the actual commander of the, the, the Mal. The Montana base, you know, the Minuteman Malster Momstrom, that, that, he was the actual commander that filed the report with NORAD about it all. And then they said, are you, are you trying to file a UFO report? Is that what you're doing here? And he said, yes. He said it was the most important moment of his life. He just said, yes, I am. He says, I'm not letting this one go, you know, because they shut off all, they shut off 10 silos, independent, independently wired nukes. Minutemen. Yeah, yeah. And so he was adamant that he was going to get that filed. And so you know, that he and a number of other high ranking military people have been sent to John Mack at Harvard as the head of the Department of Clinical Psychiatry to do the psychiatric workup on these guys. And after a half a dozen of these folks, he started saying, wait a second, this doesn't make any sense at all. He said, you know, these are high ranking military people. There's lawyers and doctors, there's all kinds of, of people that are coming to report these things. Doesn't make any sense. And so he started this actually kind of like a little investigation and he would train them to do the holotropic breathing and get them calmed down and centered. Right. And then he was asking them questions. Okay, now you're inside the craft. Look around and tell Me what you're seeing. And he was getting them to give little reports on these totally esoteric things, you know, that nobody would really make make up, you know, and, and then he would see if other people saw similar stuff, you know, and he was verifying. And so he started, got to the point where he said, wait a second, there's, there's something really happening here with these people. And so he called his mother, so she didn't die in childhood. So he called her and she said, oh, you ought to, you ought to check with, with Bud, the Hopkins kid, you know, that he's into this stuff, you know, even though he's a sculptor and artist and all that kind of stuff, but you know that our families are close and you ought to. He knows a lot about this. And so that's how it happened is he ended up talking to Bud Hopkins and Hopkins said, oh look, let me show you, you know, and he started giving him a lot more people. And so, but by the time he contacted me, you know, he, he'd interviewed like a hundred, 100 people.

[Jeremy Riss]

Wow.

[Danny]

You know, who'd had these experiences. And so that, and, and so he ended up calling me and when he got confronted by this faculty committee and they called me and asked me if I would legally represent him. And so I went there to, and confronted the, the faculty committee, you know, and, but very fortunately went with John to meet with Lawrence Rockefeller. And Lawrence Rockefeller, you know, told us all about, you know, his best friend seeing a ufo. That's why he was convinced it was true.

[Jeremy Riss]

Yeah, Lawrence Rockefeller was a patron for a lot of early UFO research. He funded John Mack, he funded Stephen Greer. I think Whitley Striber has told me a story about meeting with Lawrence Rockefeller in Wyoming and the Tetons at his ranch or whatever. Why do you think Lawrence Rockefeller was so interested in, in the subject? So you mentioned that his friend had an experience. That's interesting.

[Danny]

Whitley is the Prince of Lichtenstein, Hans Adams, whoever it was. That's all I want.

[Jeremy Riss]

He's apparently extremely interested in UFOs.

[Danny]

It was his best friend.

[Jeremy Riss]

I think he thinks that Jesus is going to come down on a saucer or something. It's like some eschatological worldview.

[Danny]

I don't, I didn't know he gathered.

[Jeremy Riss]

The guy named John Brandenburg who I interviewed so said that Prince Hans Adams had gathered all of the Roswell witnesses, I think in the 70s or something, or the 80s, I don't know what, you know, and that he wanted to speak to all them and kind of you know, understand what had happened.

[Danny]

Oh, yeah.

[Jeremy Riss]

So he was very interested in this.

[Danny]

That in. In. In Lawrence told us that, you know, because he said that's why he was so convinced that it was true that his friend, who was the Prince of Lichtenstein, had seen one and that had actually walked right up onto one, you know, that was up in the mountains. Very similar to an experience of one of the guys that I knew, you know, the. The son of Bill Todman, you know, Mark Goodson and Bill Todman. Mark Goodson and Bill Todman were the guys that used to produce I Love lucy and the $64,000 question that tune. All those kind of qu. Shows kind of things back in the 50s. It made millions, you know, And. And I was out. I was out at the. We were. We were. Mace Neufeld and Bob Ramey had contacted me. The guys that do all the Tom Clancy movies, they wanted to do the Iran Contra movie. And so they. They contacted me to talk with him down in. Down in la. And I was down in the office with Bill. Bob Ramey, who's the president of the Academy of Arts and Science, he's the head of the Oscars thing, you know. And so we were talking with him and his. His executive, his exec. Same. I forgot his name around. But anyway, that. That he contacts me and. And said. He said, look, there's a friend of mine that wants to. To talk to you. You know, would you. He told me not to say who he is, but would you trust me to. To take you there to him? So I said, okay, we'll do that. So. So we went out and we go out, get into his big red Cadillac convertible, and we drive off into Warner Brothers, and we go over to the Warner Brothers lot, and we go in, and it turns out that it's Bill Thompson, Todman's son of Mark Goodson and Bill Todman. So here's his son who's now an exec in Warner Brothers, you know, and. And he wanted to tell me about an experience that he had had and that he had. He was in college, and he was on summer break, and he was in the Tetons outside of Boulder, and he was climbing in the Tetons, and he came up into this meadow, and there was a UFO just sitting right. Hovering right there in the meadow. And he walked all the way over to it and. And put his hand on it. I said. And it was like, alive. He said, this is alive, this thing, you know? And then the whole thing started kind of shuddering and. And raised up. So he backed away from it and it just went. Went and shot away. And he. He wouldn't. He didn't dare tell anybody because he thought that they would ruin his whole reputation and stuff and industry. But it turns out that he said that his father, Mark Goodson Senior, or Bill Todman Sr. Was best friends with. He's this big famous author that writes these romance novels. Anyway, that. And he wrote. He wrote a book about it, partly because. Because Bill Taubman Jr. Told him that he'd had this experience. He wrote a thing called the Doomsday. The Doomsday. Doomsday Plan or something.

[Jeremy Riss]

Who's the author?

[Danny]

Sidney Sheldon, his name was. And he wrote like 50 of these books, made millions of dollars. He too, wouldn't dare ever be public about it. So he wrote this book called the Doomsday Project. A hypothetical of a saucer that had crashed in a tour bus over in Italy or somewhere happened to be driving by when they were doing a recovery of it. And so this young lieutenant colonel in the Naval Intelligence was assigned to find out where all the people were that were on the bus that saw this, because they just wanted to explain to them that this was just an expression, experimental thing, you know, so that they wouldn't be distressed. Well, it turns out they all started getting killed, all these witnesses. And, and, and so Sidney Sheldon wrote this book. It's complete fiction about it. And that's the only time he ever said anything about it and then went right back to his normal life. Wow. And so. So Bill Todman Jr. Wanted me to know about this just to tell me. And so I've been constantly to trying, trying to get him over the years. If. Why don't you go public. Yeah. You got more money than the Pope, you know, now from your inheritance. Why don't you.

[Jeremy Riss]

He won't do it.

[Danny]

He still hasn't agreed to do anything.

[Jeremy Riss]

Well, you've done it for him now.

[Danny]

But yeah, because he was perfectly honest about it. I didn't have any doubt that it was true. Sure. Yeah. Well, he's a real nice guy.

[Jeremy Riss]

Yeah, but.

[Danny]

So hasn't done anything.

[Jeremy Riss]

Danny, it's exciting times right now. Do you have a prediction for the next. The next three months of disclosure and.

[Danny]

The UFO truth, some of it's easy. So, you know, the, the, the, the Senate bill is going to get repassed. You know, all 64 pages, exactly the same.

[Jeremy Riss]

Senator Rounds, it's, it's.

[Danny]

Rounds is going to South Dakota. Yeah, from South Dakota. He's going to sponsor it. And I'M I'm, I'm sure that, that, that the, the Schubert rumor will co sponsor it. We don't have Marco around anymore.

[Jeremy Riss]

Rubia.

[Danny]

Rubio to sponsor. But, but you know, we're hoping to try to get State Department in on this.

[Jeremy Riss]

Okay.

[Danny]

Because there's this whole State Department dimension that is totally inappropriate for the State Department not to have been brought in on this. I mean, you're dealing with an entire foreign power here in, they're being xed out. So I mean, now that Rubio's over there, you know, he ought to.

[Jeremy Riss]

Yeah, he's very interested and on record on, you know, this whole topic and.

[Danny]

Sure he is.

[Jeremy Riss]

Yeah. One of his aides was probably as deep as it gets on the topic as well and was sort of, you know, I think encountered a bunch of obstacles as a result of his involvement.

[Danny]

Yeah. Yeah. So, so the bottom line is they're gonna, they're gonna, the Senate is gonna pass the, the 64 page bill again probably around the middle of July between July 15th, 20th or so that they'll, they'll pass it and they'll send it on over to the House. You know, we're, we're focusing on Crenshaw. Crenshaw, you know, Dan Crenshaw is now the new head of the Intelligence Committee in the House. That's where we ran into trouble before. It was primarily Mike Turner, who was the, the congressman from Ohio. Right. Part Wright Patterson district, you know, was, was stopping the, the full bill from being passed.

[Jeremy Riss]

Is Crenshaw pro ufo?

[Danny]

We don't know yet. We're, we're trying to get. But he's, he's, he's certainly not anywhere near as bad as Turner was. You know, Turner had his own personal agenda because of his constituency there, you know, with the, with the base. But, but Crenshaw is a guy that's, you know, been critical of things he doesn't agree with. He's, he's kind of a bit of a maverick. He's got a lot of integrity, you know, tough guy. You know, it's a, is a SEAL team dude, you know. But, but eye patch. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But, but he's not, he's not just kind of a knee jerk reactionary.

[Jeremy Riss]

Yeah.

[Danny]

You know, so he's, there's real promise there. And so we're going to be meeting with him and his staff to try to get him to see if he can give a leadership in the Intelligence Judgments Committee to greenlight the full bill, you know, or at least a lot more of it. We've gotten 23 pages of the 64 passed with unfortunate, some amendments, even that part. Yep. But, but the bottom line, what we're after is the appointment of the board that we, we want to get that portion of the 64 page bill done at least this time around, is to get the, get the, the, the panel appointed. You know, now one of the challenges is that, well, our New Paradigm Institute is one of the groups that's authorized to, to make recommendations under the statute. But the President is the one ultimately decides who's going to, who he's going to appoint. The Congress can mandate that he do it. They can pass the statute and say the President is to appoint this board, you know, but then he could, you know, he, he could appoint his daughter, you know, to be on it or whatever he wants to do. And so we're going to try to appoint, we're trying to recommend a group that is, that is sort of almost beyond, beyond criticism, you know, the kind of, the kind of people you'd really want to have there, and then hope that that will cause Trump to say, okay, good, that's a good group. Let's have a, have them do it. So we're hoping this year, or at least this side of the next election, this side of the election in 2026, to get an additional chunk of the 64 page bill passed, specifically the part having to do with the, with the board. Okay. And we're going to have, you know, it's going to be a dynamic going on with this board. There are going to be a lot of people inside the national security infrastructure structure. They're going to have people in there that are going to continue to keep it as sphinctered as possible, you know, and then there's going to be lots of people putting pressure on us to try to have it be, you know, here, let's have it all, you know, like, like Burchette, you know, let's just order the President to reveal everything right now. Just dump it on everybody. You know, that's. So there's, there are extremes all around us here, but what we're trying to do is kind of navigate our way through to really the dynamic that's going to take place hopefully between now and November of 2026. You know, now we've got the end of September coming here in 2025, when that's the extension that the National Archives has given to the military services and the intelligence community to gather together all the information they've got. Okay. And that's a standing order that they've got, it's still got that wiggle language in there, saying in there to turn it over to the National Archives as soon as possible. The Senate bill said immediately and they gave them the drop dead date of October 20th. And now they've managed to get the House to water it down, say as soon as possible. So my sense is their lawyers are going to push back against us. But, so I'm not, I'm not, I don't give it more than a 51% chance, you know, that we're going to get any kind of meaningful release of that information at the end of September here.

[Jeremy Riss]

Well, Danny, you're doing the Lord's work and Godspeed. I'm excited to see what happens in the next few months and years. And you're a really important champion for this whole topic. And I, I hope that, as much as I love my own podcast, I hope that you go on like Tucker Carlson or Joe Rogan or something. The JFK thing is so important and I know both are so interested in it and I dabble in, I've learned from Oliver Stone and read Mark Lane and Jim Mars and all these guys. Guys. And like, I think you're the best living reteller of the entire story in a way that is a coherent narrative with all the players. But you also talk about motives. And so I think it would be great if you, if that was amplified as much as possible.

[Danny]

No, I'd be happy to do it, you know. You know. No, no interview is any better than the interviewer.

[Jeremy Riss]

Uh huh huh.

[Danny]

That's true.

[Jeremy Riss]

That's true. Well, I think they're both great, but I mean they, more importantly than that, they have much bigger platforms than me. I mean, I have a big platform, but there's their next level, so. Biggest in the world.

[Danny]

Yeah. They both seem to be sincerely interested, you know, and so that's the key, you know, and they're not particularly biased or prejudiced in any way about it now. And because they, they straddle different kind of worldviews, you know, in reality, reach out to people that are. Adherence to different worldviews. It's a valuable forum.

[Jeremy Riss]

Yep.

[Danny]

Those. Both of those guys.

[Jeremy Riss]

Yeah. Well, Danny, it's an honor, man. Appreciate you taking the time. This is always awesome.

[Danny]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Riss]

Always learned so much.

[Danny]

Sam.