Legendary Hip Hop Producer Reveals UFO Obsession (Ft. Flying Lotus) | EARLY RELEASE & AD FREE - American Alchemy with Jesse Michels

Summary4 min read

American Alchemy: Episode Summary

Title: Legendary Hip Hop Producer Reveals UFO Obsession (Ft. Flying Lotus) | EARLY RELEASE & AD FREE
Host: Jesse Michaels
Guest: Flying Lotus
Release Date: July 31, 2025

Introduction

In this riveting episode of American Alchemy, host Jesse Michaels sits down with the enigmatic and multi-talented Flying Lotus, a musical virtuoso known for his groundbreaking work in hip hop production and filmmaking. The conversation delves deep into Flying Lotus's fascination with UFOs, his artistic influences, and his journey through the music and film industries.

Flying Lotus's UFO Obsession

The episode kicks off with Flying Lotus sharing his intense interest in UFO phenomena. He recounts a memorable interaction where he confronted a community fanatic about the "Skinny Bob" UFO video, skepticism evident in his stance:

Flying Lotus [07:28]: "It's clearly CGI, like a motherfucker, dude."

This moment highlights the tension between believers and skeptics within the UFO community. Flying Lotus expresses frustration over the blind faith some have in UFO testimonies, emphasizing the need for rational discourse.

Challenges Within the UFO Community

Flying Lotus and Jesse Michaels discuss the polarized views surrounding UFO disclosures. They ponder why prominent figures like Lou Elizondo and Michael Kirkpatrick haven't been brought together for comprehensive discussions:

Jesse Michaels [03:28]: "Why can't we just get Lou Elizondo and Kirkpatrick in a room together?"

Flying Lotus speculates that anti-UFO sentiments and institutional secrecy hinder such collaborations, leading to fragmented conversations confined to echo chambers.

Government Involvement and Disclosure Skepticism

The duo examines governmental roles in UFO disclosures, contemplating the skepticism surrounding presidential announcements:

Flying Lotus [10:02]: "I always think about that moment and how many people be like, Trump said it. I don't believe it."

They express doubt that official revelations will lead to substantive changes, fearing that any disclosed information might be dismissed as AI-generated or inconsequential.

Personal Experiences with UFO Phenomena

Flying Lotus shares his personal encounters and observations, discussing the impact of conspiracy theories on public perception:

Flying Lotus [07:48]: "People want to believe this shit so badly."

He reflects on the emotional toll of debunking misinformation and the collective yearning for undeniable proof of extraterrestrial life.

Artistic Journey and Musical Influences

Transitioning from UFOs, the conversation shifts to Flying Lotus's rich musical heritage. He reveals his lineage, being the great nephew of the legendary Alice Coltrane and grandson of songwriter Marilyn McLeod:

Jesse Michaels [00:47]: "Alice Coltrane is your great aunt. She was like Yoda type person."

Flying Lotus discusses how growing up amidst such profound musical influences shaped his eclectic sound, blending jazz, hip hop, and electronic elements seamlessly.

Collaborations and Brain Feeder

Flying Lotus elaborates on his role in founding the influential record label Brain Feeder, which has been pivotal in nurturing avant-garde artists like Thundercat:

Flying Lotus [67:07]: "Brain Feeder has been going for a minute... something that is kind of flourishing on its own at this point."

His collaboration with Thundercat is highlighted as a testament to his commitment to fostering unique talents:

Flying Lotus [69:50]: "Thundercat credits you for having helped give him a voice... it's been awesome to see."

Sampling and Production Techniques

The discussion delves into Flying Lotus's approach to music production, particularly his innovative sampling methods. He emphasizes the importance of creativity over technical limitations:

Flying Lotus [125:27]: "Find your drums first and then try to form your sampling around the drums versus using the sample."

This philosophy underscores his pioneering contributions to the hip hop and electronic music landscapes.

Filmmaking and Artistic Inspirations

Flying Lotus reveals his passion for filmmaking, inspired heavily by David Lynch. He cites Eraserhead as his favorite Lynch film, admiring its surreal and haunting imagery:

Flying Lotus [96:56]: "Favorite David Lynch movie is probably Eraserhead."

His own films, including Kuso, VHS, and Ash, are discussed as extensions of his artistic vision, blending horror, sci-fi, and experimental narratives to explore complex themes.

Potential UFO-Themed Projects

Given his profound interest in UFOs, both hosts speculate about Flying Lotus's future endeavors in creating UFO-themed movies:

Flying Lotus [104:58]: "Maybe the next one will be."

This intersection of his UFO fascination with filmmaking promises to deliver thought-provoking and genre-defying cinema.

Personal Reflections and Artistic Philosophy

Throughout the episode, Flying Lotus shares introspective thoughts on art, creativity, and personal growth. He highlights the therapeutic nature of music and film, viewing them as outlets for processing emotions and connecting with deeper truths:

Flying Lotus [44:46]: "My job is to go to therapy."

He underscores the importance of maintaining passion and authenticity amidst the pressures of the entertainment industry.

Conclusion

As the conversation winds down, Jesse Michaels and Flying Lotus reflect on their shared passions and mutual respect. Flying Lotus emphasizes the significance of staying true to one's artistic instincts and the enduring allure of exploring the unknown through both music and film.

Notable Quotes:

Flying Lotus [07:28]: "It's clearly CGI, like a motherfucker, dude."
Jesse Michaels [03:28]: "Why can't we just get Lou Elizondo and Kirkpatrick in a room together?"
Flying Lotus [10:02]: "I always think about that moment and how many people be like, Trump said it. I don't believe it."
Flying Lotus [67:07]: "Brain Feeder has been going for a minute... something that is kind of flourishing on its own at this point."
Flying Lotus [96:56]: "Favorite David Lynch movie is probably Eraserhead."
Flying Lotus [125:27]: "Find your drums first and then try to form your sampling around the drums versus using the sample."

This episode of American Alchemy offers a captivating blend of extraterrestrial intrigue and deep musical artistry, providing listeners with profound insights into the multifaceted mind of Flying Lotus.

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Transcript989 lines

[00:01]
Flying Lotus
There was one time I jumped in to a conversation. It was about the Skinny Bob stuff.
[00:07]
Jesse Michaels
Oh, yeah.
[00:08]
Flying Lotus
There were people just talking about like, oh, you know, this video is amazing. And I'm like, are y' all still talking about this video? It's clearly cgi, is like a motherfucker. Dude.
[00:20]
Jesse Michaels
I'm here with one of my production heroes, Flying Lotus. I feel like I can't even categorize you. I have to call you creative because you are an amazing director. You make films. You're, I think, one of the best hip hop producers ever. Well, you come from maybe the most kind of interesting musical family I could think of. Alice Coltrane is your. What is your great aunt. Is that right?
[00:47]
Flying Lotus
Yeah, yeah. She was like Yoda, you know, she was like a Yoda type person. When I play it, it makes me recall Egypt, ancient Egypt. It makes me seem to remember that I have a past or a history there somewhere. She just had. She was tapped in for sure to the source. Maybe this is something that we were, you know, connected to a bit earlier in our development as human beings. You know, maybe we were closer to God, closer to the source, closer to the stars. You saw a motherfucking like frozen alien or something yourself, right?
[01:26]
Jesse Michaels
You see like, I might have. I might have. I saw a thing with three fingers and three toes.
[01:32]
Flying Lotus
Isn't Jaime Musan part of that situation? He's a known fraud. So, like, it's all bullshit, isn't it?
[01:38]
Jesse Michaels
I think Spielberg knew some shit.
[01:40]
Flying Lotus
And then he looked around the room and he said, and there are a number of people in this room who know that everything on that screen is absolutely true.
[01:47]
Jesse Michaels
People would call in and they're like, we're doing time travel stuff at Area 51.
[01:51]
Flying Lotus
What we're thinking of as aliens. They're extra dimensional beings that an earlier precursor of the space program made contact with different parts of the brain, have different activities.
[02:12]
Jesse Michaels
But you know that, don't you?
[02:18]
Flying Lotus
Maybe you should interview me.
[02:28]
Jesse Michaels
I'm here with one of my production heroes, Flying Lotus. I feel like I can't even categorize you. I have to call you creative because you are an amazing director. You make films. You're, I think one of the best hip hop producers ever. And yeah, man, just an all around awesome guy. And. And I didn't even know you were interested in UFOs until we started DMing, I think on Twitter or something. And it was. That was so surreal to me because I was like, I've been listening to this guy for 15 plus years and he's into the stuff I'm putting out, what's going on.
[03:06]
Flying Lotus
It was. It was pretty surreal for me for you to respond the way you did, too, because I was just like, you know, I felt like I was reaching out to a few people just to try to get some info and some insight on, you know, what people knew. And. And you responded, and you're like, whoa. I was like, whoa, Because I've been following you too, you know, so it was. It was a trip, and, I mean, I'm really excited to do this.
[03:28]
Jesse Michaels
Same man. Well, you were asking amazing questions. You were like, why can't we just get Lou Elizondo and Kirkpatrick in a room together?
[03:36]
Flying Lotus
Yeah, why not?
[03:37]
Jesse Michaels
I'm with you.
[03:37]
Flying Lotus
It was like, why is that so hard? Why are they. Who's. Who's not making it happen? I feel like one of them would. Would love to do it, and the other doesn't.
[03:45]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah, it's a lot of, like, cheap shots from afar. It's like, why can't we get Grush and Elon Musk in a room together? Why can't?
[03:52]
Flying Lotus
Yeah, why not? Who's. Who's afraid?
[03:54]
Jesse Michaels
Who's afraid? Well, in my experience is usually the anti UFO side, that it's like they're hiding something or guarding something.
[04:03]
Flying Lotus
Yeah. And they probably put up that whole front, like, oh, I have no time to talk to these people who are. They're clearly liars and all this stuff. So I don't know. It's kind of. Kind of bizarre for me to, like, on the outside, where you're just, like. You're seeing all this. All this testimony, and you're hearing all these things, and then everyone's just kind of like, talking in their own little echo chambers and speaking about it, and it's just. It'd be nice to just have a round table with all these people, you know, have. What's this. What's that cat? Who's the skeptic? The big skeptic?
[04:36]
Jesse Michaels
Mick West.
[04:36]
Flying Lotus
Mick West. Put him in there. You know, everybody. Yeah, put everybody up there.
[04:41]
Jesse Michaels
Everybody. Let's just work it out together. Do you have any favorite UFO or alien conspiracies?
[04:47]
Flying Lotus
Oh, yeah, I love. I love. There's a few I love. Obviously, Bob Lazar's story is super amazing.
[04:54]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah. And that touches on a lot of the stuff on the shirt, for sure.
[04:58]
Flying Lotus
Bob Lazar's story is one of the. It's like one of the gateway drugs.
[05:02]
Jesse Michaels
It is the gateway drug. Yeah.
[05:06]
Flying Lotus
There's another. I forget the cat's name, but the Guy who worked at Raytheon.
[05:11]
Jesse Michaels
Eric Hecker.
[05:13]
Flying Lotus
Yes, that guy.
[05:14]
Jesse Michaels
The dude that said that we have a neutrino emitter and detector on the South Pole.
[05:18]
Flying Lotus
Yes. But it also was the reason for the Christchurch earthquake in New Zealand. Yeah.
[05:25]
Jesse Michaels
Crazy.
[05:25]
Flying Lotus
And I love that. I mean, I don't know if it's true, but I fucking love that. It's wild. It's such a. Such a wild idea. And, you know, I don't know how much of it is true. I don't know what's real, what's not. I feel like he must have been there. I think there's photos that he shared.
[05:43]
Jesse Michaels
He was at Raytheon.
[05:44]
Flying Lotus
Yeah, he was there. Um, but, you know, you said a lot of stuff was, like, overheard, like, water cooler talk. So, you know, who knows what that even means? But. But yeah, Steven Greer. Fascinating, dude. You know, he hates you, bro. I loved watching that episode of him talking to you, man. I'd never seen him be so fucking mean.
[06:08]
Jesse Michaels
He showed up to that dude.
[06:09]
Flying Lotus
He was like. He was out the gate, like, not fucking with you.
[06:12]
Jesse Michaels
He called me a dilettante, like, four times.
[06:15]
Flying Lotus
He said a lot, man. He said, if you let me finish, I'll tell you.
[06:22]
Jesse Michaels
He was like, I. Look, I've been in this for 30 years. He was like, you don't really know anything.
[06:26]
Flying Lotus
Yeah, okay.
[06:27]
Jesse Michaels
I'm sorry.
[06:28]
Flying Lotus
But it's funny though, man. I, I, I was actually on my way here. I was thinking about how. Just thinking about the community in general, because I've, you know, ever since I've started liking tweets, all I get is UFO stuff.
[06:42]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah.
[06:44]
Flying Lotus
In my feed, and there's, like, you know, the usual suspects who are posting stuff. John Greenwald and was that UFO Joe?
[06:54]
Jesse Michaels
UFO Joe? Yeah.
[06:56]
Flying Lotus
Uap.
[06:58]
Jesse Michaels
He's amazing.
[07:00]
Flying Lotus
But I always find the. Just the, the auxiliary community so interesting.
[07:07]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah.
[07:09]
Flying Lotus
And I don't really engage with. I'm kind of a lurker. That's.
[07:11]
Jesse Michaels
And that's good. That's a better position to be in. Trust me.
[07:15]
Flying Lotus
But there was one time. There was one time I jumped in to a conversation. It was about. It was one of those UFO accounts that was talking about the Skinny Bob stuff.
[07:28]
Jesse Michaels
Oh, yeah.
[07:29]
Flying Lotus
And, like, the Skinny Bob video. And I was like, there were people just talking about, like, oh, you know, this video is amazing. And I'm like, are y' all still talking about this video? It's clearly cgi, like a motherfucker, dude. I said that. And people were pissed.
[07:48]
Jesse Michaels
They were mad.
[07:49]
Flying Lotus
They were pissed. They were like, who's this blue check I had never heard before. He got a whole bunch of followers on. Like, he sounds. He's sending disinformation out there. Like, I was like, oh, shit, son. Like, people want to believe this shit so badly.
[08:02]
Jesse Michaels
They want to believe it so badly.
[08:04]
Flying Lotus
And I feel bad now because we're in a time where, like, we're making all these crazy AI videos and all this stuff, and it's just like, man, these people, they're. I feel bad.
[08:14]
Jesse Michaels
No, it's a religion for most people that are into it.
[08:17]
Flying Lotus
Yeah.
[08:17]
Jesse Michaels
Because they're like, if this stuff is real, it has to incorporate into some larger metaphysical worldview.
[08:23]
Flying Lotus
Right.
[08:23]
Jesse Michaels
And then it's like, that's all that matters. It's the only thing. Because then reality is not what it seems. And then you see them get so argumentative and angry and dig their heels, and if you hit one of the things that they're like, sure about, and it's. It's one of the things that's hard about the quote unquote communities, you have to.
[08:42]
Flying Lotus
I feel bad for you. I feel bad for you. I feel like anytime, like, after the Joe Rogan thing, I think I saw people just being like, jesse Michaels is like, a pain and somebody fucking working for the government or some shit. Like, you know, you're like, the billionaires are in your pocket, all that stuff.
[09:00]
Jesse Michaels
And, like, Yeah, I think 20% of Reddit thinks I'm like, a CIA agent or something.
[09:04]
Flying Lotus
It's ridiculous.
[09:05]
Jesse Michaels
It's crazy. Well, it's kind of shitty because not only are there, like, dangerous situations or, like, seemingly dangerous situations, I feel like I'm in vis a vis those people.
[09:16]
Flying Lotus
Right.
[09:16]
Jesse Michaels
But I'm also.
[09:17]
Flying Lotus
Now I'm fucked now. You're fucked, bro. These motherfuckers are gonna come through.
[09:21]
Jesse Michaels
You're gonna get tracked.
[09:22]
Flying Lotus
You don't fucking believe the Skinny Bob video, you dick. I'm blocking you.
[09:26]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I'm saying that you get it on both sides when you get deep enough. You get like, the conspiracy theorists think that you're part of the establishment, right? And then the establishment is probably keeping tabs on you, and you're like, fucking.
[09:38]
Flying Lotus
Hey, this is crazy. So thanks.
[09:40]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah, thanks.
[09:42]
Flying Lotus
Oh, man.
[09:43]
Jesse Michaels
Well, this is.
[09:44]
Flying Lotus
My shit is tapped now. It wasn't tapped before, just being here with you. Oh, that's funny.
[09:50]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah. Well, I don't know. Where do you think it goes? Do you think it.
[09:54]
Flying Lotus
What?
[09:54]
Jesse Michaels
Just the whole UFO conversation. Do you think this ends with something get. Getting unveiled at Area 51? A saucer and a Hangar. Do you think the president.
[10:03]
Flying Lotus
I feel like that moment right there, the President makes announcement. I always think about that and I always think about how many people be like, Trump said it. I don't believe it.
[10:11]
Jesse Michaels
Right, right.
[10:12]
Flying Lotus
Or then there's the people that, ah, Trump said. Well, I definitely believe.
[10:14]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah.
[10:15]
Flying Lotus
But I know that the weight of that is somewhat diminished in this term.
[10:22]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[10:23]
Flying Lotus
It's something about it just. I mean, if he comes out and says that, everyone's gonna be like, well, why do you say that?
[10:29]
Jesse Michaels
Totally.
[10:29]
Flying Lotus
What else? What else? What? Well, we know already, but where's the video? They show you the video? Yeah, it's like, well, it's AI.
[10:36]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah.
[10:37]
Flying Lotus
Oh, well, I mean, honestly, you gotta be like, they gotta be here with us.
[10:42]
Jesse Michaels
Yep.
[10:42]
Flying Lotus
You know, and. And like it's gonna take so much. I think at this point you can have material. I got this piece of metal, scan it. Yeah, you saw, you saw a like frozen alien or something yourself, right?
[10:56]
Jesse Michaels
You see like, I might have. Yeah, I might have. I saw a thing with three fingers and three toes. They call it the touch the tridactyl beings in Peru from. Dated from the Nazca period where there's cave art all over there. One of the bioinformatics genetics people found a mutation that matches a human mutation that involves digit differences on the finger. Crazy stuff. That one of them has a fetus that might be triedactyl inside of it.
[11:21]
Flying Lotus
Yeah. Eggs, right?
[11:23]
Jesse Michaels
One has eggs.
[11:24]
Flying Lotus
Yeah, one has eggs.
[11:25]
Jesse Michaels
So it's like. But yeah.
[11:27]
Flying Lotus
Isn't Jaime Musa part of that.
[11:29]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah. Situation.
[11:31]
Flying Lotus
He's a known fraud. So like, it's all bullshit, isn't it?
[11:34]
Jesse Michaels
And you?
[11:34]
Flying Lotus
I don't know. I'm just saying.
[11:36]
Jesse Michaels
And I met. I spent a lot of time with Jaime. I love Jaime. I think he's awesome.
[11:40]
Flying Lotus
I went to the unveiling of.
[11:42]
Jesse Michaels
Oh, you did that?
[11:43]
Flying Lotus
I went. Yeah, it was like. Yeah. It was like down the street from my house, basically. So I was like, shit, I'm going there. I'm going to check that out.
[11:51]
Jesse Michaels
What was your take when, like on the spot with the, with the beings.
[11:56]
Flying Lotus
Well then have them there. There was a presentation like saying that they are. You know, they were showing the photos and the. The X rays and all that stuff.
[12:04]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah.
[12:05]
Flying Lotus
So it was a little hard to really have an opinion when you don't have. You're not seeing it with, you know.
[12:11]
Jesse Michaels
Sure.
[12:12]
Flying Lotus
But I just take it all of a grain of salt. I find it fascinating. It was. I had a great time.
[12:17]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah.
[12:17]
Flying Lotus
Met a couple cool People there.
[12:19]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah.
[12:19]
Flying Lotus
And left.
[12:20]
Jesse Michaels
That's the move, man. You have the right orientation towards this whole subject, which is like, it's fun and like, we'll see what happens.
[12:27]
Flying Lotus
We'll see what happens. I will say though, there's times where I'm like, nah, man, this is real as hat. You know, there's been those moments, but then there's been moments where, you know, it's just like, well, of course it's us. Yeah, of course it's our technology. Why would they want to say, Right. Why would they want to admit that, you know, we're making all these crazy anti gravity propulsions? Why would they want to share that with anyone?
[12:53]
Jesse Michaels
I think the way to back them into a corner is you go as deep as you can on the anti gravity stuff and then you go as deep as you can on the UFO stuff and then it's like, okay, unless you have all these fighter pilots lying, then one of these is right.
[13:05]
Flying Lotus
Yeah, yeah.
[13:06]
Jesse Michaels
So I would think, hey, man, who.
[13:10]
Flying Lotus
I'm not saying the pilots are wrong, but maybe they're seeing Lockheed Martin stuff.
[13:16]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah.
[13:16]
Flying Lotus
And I don't know, the whole J. Barber. Jake.
[13:21]
Jesse Michaels
Jake Barber.
[13:22]
Flying Lotus
Jake Barber stuff, but the sky washer stuff, that's really fascinating. Super trippy, really interesting that Jake Barber came out on that was it with Ross cohort. When it came out, man, that video, he was like talking the whole time. Me and my buddy was like, all right, let's take a shot. If he blinks. This cat didn't blink at all. He was sober like a motherfucker. But like, but man, it's, it's, it's really interesting, fascinating stuff. And I don't mean to poke fun or whatever, but I, I think it's, I mean, if you follow this stuff, I really do hope that you have a sense of humor about it because you need to. You got to. It's, it's just like, you know, you get so worked up. People get so worked up over these things. I can tell just by the tweets and seeing stuff. But yeah, people need to touch grass and be with families.
[14:12]
Jesse Michaels
You know, sometimes people get so heated, I'm like, just relax. It's all good.
[14:16]
Flying Lotus
Yeah, it's all good. It's all good. You know, if it, if it is true, your life is not going to change. Yeah. Still gonna have to go to work tomorrow.
[14:23]
Jesse Michaels
That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Whatever it is, at least right now is like weakly entangled with our reality. Like we are. You gotta still be a good person. You gotta pay Your bills, you gotta do all these things that like, yeah, aliens don't really affect it that much. You know how we're always diving into the edge of science and consciousness on this show? Lately I've been thinking a lot about aging. Not just in terms of years, but in how it actually feels in the body. Slow recovery, lower energy, that middle aged fog that sneaks up on you. I feel like I can barely go out and drink alcohol anymore. That's why I started using something called Qualia Senolytic and it's been a major shift for me. Let me explain. As we age, our bodies accumulate what scientists call senescent cells, also known as zombie cells. These are worn out cells that stop dividing but don't die. They hang around in your body, draining your energy, clogging up your recovery and generally making you feel older than you are. Qualia Senolytic is a first of its kind supplement formulated with nine plant based compounds designed to help your body naturally eliminate these zombie cells. It's not something you take every day, just two days a month, but it supports your body in aging better at the cellular level. Since I've started taking it, I've felt sharper, lighter and like my body's resilience has come back online. It's vegan, non GMO and grounded in serious research experience. The science of feeling younger. Go to qualiolife.com Jesse for up to 50% off your purchase and use code Jesse again. That's J E S S E for an additional 15% off. That's Q-U-A-L-I-A L I F E.com Jesse J-E-S-S E for an extra 15% off your purchase. Thanks so much to Qualia for sponsoring this episode.
[16:18]
Flying Lotus
And like, I'm sorry, if, if Ross Colhart really knows where there's a giant ufo, he knows where it is. I feel like there's ways of leaking that information that doesn't, you know, get anyone hurt.
[16:33]
Jesse Michaels
I just interviewed him and of course I asked him that. Is there anything, Joe Rogan just talked about this, everybody talks about this amazing bombshell thing that you reported on. You know, I'm going to say, yeah, this UFO possibly found in that, that, that they needed to build a bunker around that was like, you know, a mile plus long. Anything you can say about it?
[16:57]
Flying Lotus
I do not resile from saying what I've said previously, which is that there is a buried or at least built upon UFO that was too big to.
[17:09]
Jesse Michaels
Move and that's it. He did not give me the answer.
[17:14]
Flying Lotus
Something tells me, you know, he might be bending the truth a little bit. You know, I don't know.
[17:19]
Jesse Michaels
He implied. And I can say this because he said this to me and it's coming out. He was like, it's an extremely sens that you'd endanger personnel on the ground, like maybe soldiers or something. So that makes me think like, current war zone.
[17:34]
Flying Lotus
It's a very sensitive place. That should be enough of a guide for you. And to reveal the full extent of what I know would compromise the lives of young men and women who are doing good things for America, completely separate from the UAP program and they're probably oblivious to what's sitting downstairs. There's ways to leak information.
[17:57]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah.
[17:58]
Flying Lotus
He knows that.
[17:59]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah.
[18:00]
Flying Lotus
You know, it doesn't have to trace back.
[18:01]
Jesse Michaels
Come to him. Right, Ross?
[18:03]
Flying Lotus
Yeah. Come on, man.
[18:05]
Jesse Michaels
Come on, man.
[18:06]
Flying Lotus
If you can really change the world.
[18:08]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah, you should. Yeah, yeah. Come on, Ross.
[18:12]
Flying Lotus
So that's it.
[18:14]
Jesse Michaels
You know, it's like, I understand his spot though, too, because say he hasn't fully corroborated that. That's true. Like, he.
[18:22]
Flying Lotus
Somebody shouldn't be saying.
[18:23]
Jesse Michaels
Then he shouldn't be saying. Yeah, right.
[18:24]
Flying Lotus
He shouldn't be going. Because he's very confident when he says this.
[18:27]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah, it's true. So it's like different or. Yeah.
[18:30]
Flying Lotus
You know, I remember when those. The Chinese drones were flying over and he was always like, my sources say this and my sources say that. And he's so confident about sources. And then the sources keep changing the story still.
[18:40]
Jesse Michaels
Well, he just came out with something about the drones recently.
[18:44]
Flying Lotus
His sources did.
[18:45]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah, his sources. He said that something about the drones being American military exercises, like. Yeah, yeah. So I don't know.
[18:54]
Flying Lotus
His sources told him it was the Chinese too, before. At first, you know, it was like, there's some. I mean, if anyone out there is really about to change the world with this stuff, I feel like the powers that be might forgive you. Might not go to jail forever. Might not get executed.
[19:15]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[19:15]
Flying Lotus
You know, I think it's worth. I think it's worth it if you really got the goods.
[19:19]
Jesse Michaels
Right. Yeah. Like, would you do it? You'd be the people's champion. I would do it if I wouldn't be torpedoing. Like, if it was like a person that was like, you will get me killed or something. Like, I can't do that. But if it was like, you'd be.
[19:35]
Flying Lotus
Like, Julian Assange, dude. Like, you don't want to. You don't want to.
[19:37]
Jesse Michaels
But Julian look at where Julian Assange is, man. But it's not a fun life.
[19:41]
Flying Lotus
But yeah, this the difference though. Yeah, right. Is like that information is totally different than true.
[19:50]
Jesse Michaels
It's not like you're just going head to head with Mike Pompeo in the CIA. It's like this is just pro human. You'd be the people's champion. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[19:59]
Flying Lotus
I mean people like Luigi, man, whatever. Like, yo, that's next level. You could play him in a movie.
[20:06]
Jesse Michaels
What's that?
[20:06]
Flying Lotus
You could play Luigi in a movie.
[20:07]
Jesse Michaels
Oh, I'm down. Yeah, I heard super. Super Mario's Brothers were. It was a very high grossing. You got to pay a pretty penny if you want me as a, you know, rocking my green.
[20:20]
Flying Lotus
I'm talking about the fucking guy who killed the.
[20:23]
Jesse Michaels
Oh.
[20:26]
Flying Lotus
Damn, man.
[20:26]
Jesse Michaels
Why are you going to throw that at me?
[20:29]
Flying Lotus
Like. But you know what? He. He's the people. He was the people's champ.
[20:33]
Jesse Michaels
He was the people's champ, you know, for a while. I don't know. I mean, I kind of get it because United Health Care sucks. You know, like also fudge that guy. Not that he deserved what. Whatever happened.
[20:43]
Flying Lotus
Yeah, it's a weird one. I don't think that killing people is the way to the way forward. Definitely with anything but you know, in terms of making a difference and stuff. If you got the goods like that. Yeah, like UFO goods like that. Like world changing. Come on, man.
[21:04]
Jesse Michaels
It's interesting. I think you met my buddy, Chris Ramsey. We were hanging out in Austin. Amazing magician. Has an awesome channel. Area 52.
[21:11]
Flying Lotus
Yeah.
[21:12]
Jesse Michaels
He asked me on the podcast, he was like, is it the logical conclusion that you will be shown a ufo? I hadn't even thought of that. That maybe personally. Yeah, like that'd be cool. Like, I wonder if like Art Bell was shown, you know, our Bell, of course. Yeah. Like, was he shown a ufo? Like he had these things, art arts parts, these little bits and pieces of UFO stuff.
[21:33]
Flying Lotus
I don't know.
[21:33]
Jesse Michaels
And I wonder if he was ever given access to anything because he was in Nevada area and like, I don't know. He just had so many crazy, crazy whistleblowers back then. Yeah, it's interesting. People think the whistleblower thing is a new phenomen. Then people would call in and they're like, we're doing time travel stuff at Area 51. They know I'm. I'm running from them. I just quit or whatever. Like people call in saying this shit. It was crazy.
[21:59]
Flying Lotus
I. I kind of been running across the country. Oh man. I Don't know where to start.
[22:04]
Jesse Michaels
They're.
[22:06]
Flying Lotus
They're going to, they'll triangulate on this position really, really soon. So you can't spend a lot of time on the phone. So give us something quick. Okay. Okay. What we're thinking of as aliens, Art. They're extra dimensional beings that an earlier precursor of the space program made contact with. They are not what they claim to be. They have infiltrated a lot of, a lot of aspects of the military establishment, particularly the Area 51, the disasters that are coming. The military, I'm sorry, the government knows about them and there's a lot of safe areas in this world that they could begin moving the population to now are. But they're not doing. They're not doing anything. They are not. They want the major population centers wiped out so that the few that are left will be more easily controllable. Discharged. Well, this was certainly interesting. We are now on a backup system. Everybody, backup system. And that one caller that I had on the air, I guess we were about in the middle of his transmission, his telephone call, which was one of the strangest ones I've ever had. And the entire transmitting system by satellite went down here and we were notified we were off the air and it would appear to be from this end and some sort of massive transmit failure. So we are now using a backup system to be on the air. And not that I would normally believe this kind of thing, mind you, but I can't help but wonder if somebody, somebody zapped us in some way. Yeah, man. I mean look, if they got the goods, someone needs to say something or else you're just gonna get a bunch of the same, same stuff that we've been seeing. I don't. It's gonna take a lot to move the needle. I think at this point. You know, everyone's like waiting for that movie with the age of disclosure to come out or like that's going to make a difference. Yeah, like it's just going to be another same people talking the same thing and showing nothing different.
[24:52]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah.
[24:54]
Flying Lotus
So we'll see what happens.
[24:56]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah, I'm curious, man.
[24:57]
Flying Lotus
Well, watch it though.
[24:58]
Jesse Michaels
What's that?
[24:59]
Flying Lotus
I'm still watch it though.
[25:00]
Jesse Michaels
Oh, me too. It's a great movie. Do you. Will you help with the whole thing by making a movie about one of these stories?
[25:08]
Flying Lotus
Well, yeah, I would like to try my hand at it. I get a little discouraged because I know old Spielberg's coming out with his disclosures. Yeah, he's gonna do his thing. I don't know what Angle his is.
[25:21]
Jesse Michaels
Gonna be it's a love story with Emily Blunt.
[25:24]
Flying Lotus
Of course it's a love story. They're all love stories.
[25:27]
Jesse Michaels
They're all love Steven Spielberg.
[25:28]
Flying Lotus
Yeah. What's the other thing he's trying to say?
[25:31]
Jesse Michaels
Do you like Spielberg? I would guess that maybe you're not the biggest Spielberg fan.
[25:35]
Flying Lotus
It's funny you say that because I.
[25:37]
Jesse Michaels
Feel like you don't like conventional.
[25:39]
Flying Lotus
It's funny you say that.
[25:40]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah.
[25:40]
Flying Lotus
I love Spielberg.
[25:41]
Jesse Michaels
Really?
[25:41]
Flying Lotus
I love conventional movie. I love it. I love it when you can do. When you can do the whole hero's journey thing well. And it works.
[25:48]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah, it's.
[25:50]
Flying Lotus
It's amazing. And I'll be honest with you, a big part of my love for Spielberg is John Williams though.
[25:55]
Jesse Michaels
Oh, amazing. You know, I mean the music.
[25:57]
Flying Lotus
So like you want to go back to like. Well, Jurassic park is actually like, like top movies.
[26:05]
Jesse Michaels
Oh yeah.
[26:05]
Flying Lotus
You know, 10 years old, seeing that movie for the first time. I want to be a paleontologist after I saw that, you know, like going to change the trajectory of my life kind of movie. But I think there was something about his movies with John Williams that, that synergy, that connection, it just really, it brought in the sense of wonderment.
[26:32]
Jesse Michaels
Oh yeah.
[26:32]
Flying Lotus
In, in the film. And it just made like. I didn't realize until like last year I went through a Spielberg thing last year. I was, I watched all of the movies, all of them, because I was really. It was more so of John Williams thing I was going through. So I had to watch all Spielberg stuff. But you know, Close Encounters, I had actually never seen that one before.
[26:56]
Jesse Michaels
Oh, wow.
[26:57]
Flying Lotus
And it was like perfect timing and all the UFO stuff and I was blown away. And I saw. I'm embarrassed to say this, but I only saw ET for the first time.
[27:08]
Jesse Michaels
No way.
[27:08]
Flying Lotus
This year.
[27:09]
Jesse Michaels
I love E.T.
[27:10]
Flying Lotus
That movie destroyed me.
[27:13]
Jesse Michaels
It's amazing.
[27:13]
Flying Lotus
I was like, I was watching that movie like as a grown man, but I was also like a 12 year old boy watching that movie. And like the last half hour, I just couldn't stop crying was just like, just endless. Just couldn't stop. That movie just destroyed me. I could think about it without that right now. Probably start crying.
[27:32]
Jesse Michaels
It's. It's so good. And when he's biking and you have ET with the hood on and he's. And they starts flying off the cliff or whatever and the John Williams things comes in and John Williams like, oh my God. I think Spielberg knew some shit about UFOs. I think he has some inside sources.
[27:48]
Flying Lotus
Yeah.
[27:49]
Jesse Michaels
Because you watch Close encounters of the.
[27:50]
Flying Lotus
Third kind of stuff in there.
[27:51]
Jesse Michaels
Do you have the crates that say TRW and skunk works in the late 80s when nobody really knew that much about those two Frontier R D. Something was up.
[28:00]
Flying Lotus
He was definitely. He was definitely clued in. And there was like. It was some weird stuff too, like the orbs. We got some like, like orbs that trailed after the big UFO thing.
[28:10]
Jesse Michaels
And I didn't even know that.
[28:11]
Flying Lotus
There are some like, weird little. Little. They were like, here we go. Just right. It was like little, little stuff.
[28:18]
Jesse Michaels
Like, it was like really the sunburn that he gets when the UFO passes over the mountain or whatever. Which. That's really interesting.
[28:26]
Flying Lotus
Do I even pick up on?
[28:27]
Jesse Michaels
Oh, yeah. It's like. It's like electromagnetic radiation damage, which if you like, you know Kit Green and Gary Nolan, you know, CIA spooky stuff. They're looking at biological effects of people who've witnessed or encountered UFOs. It's the same stuff now and then, E. T. You have the kid lock on with E. T. And they have the same biorhythm and heart, you know, readings or whatever. And that's like Jake Barber, where it's like he's locking onto the crap. And then the final one. This is my favorite one you've seen Back to the future? No, I live under a rock. So he executive produced that.
[29:02]
Flying Lotus
Yeah.
[29:04]
Jesse Michaels
So we've talked about this guy, Thomas Townsend Brown.
[29:07]
Flying Lotus
Yeah, he's your boy.
[29:08]
Jesse Michaels
I love Thomas Townsend. Can't get through an interview without mentioning this anti gravity, amazing anti gravity inventor. But in general relativity, time and gravity are related. So the whole. His whole life he's obsessed with time travel. And if you watch Back to the future, it's Emmett E M E T T Brown. Thomas Townsend Brown flies on his flux capacitor, which is capacitor experiment. It was Brown. It took place in Pasadena, which is where Brown lived.
[29:34]
Flying Lotus
That might be coincidental.
[29:35]
Jesse Michaels
I don't know, man. I don't know. Wow. I don't know. And then it was. It was the year that he died. It was 1985. And then it goes back to 1957, which is when he proved his experiment. And it was powered by Mr. Fusion. His experiments were powered by. He wanted them to be powered by nuclear reactions.
[29:53]
Flying Lotus
I want to watch it again.
[29:54]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah, I want to watch the game. I think that movie might even. Because if. If some of this stuff is time travel. That movie's fascinating because it points to us mistaking the UFO thing for aliens extraterrestrials, when actually it's time travel. Because the kid. I don't know if you remember this, but the DeLorean comes back in time and it hits. It goes into the shed, and the kid has a magazine, like a UFO magazine. And he's. He's looking at the thing, and he goes, it has no seams. It has no rivets. He goes, it must be a flying saucer. And then. And then when Marty goes down, he.
[30:29]
Flying Lotus
Comes out like he's an alien, too, right?
[30:31]
Jesse Michaels
That's right. That's right. It looks like it is. So they mistake it. And then when Marty comes back, his father goes. He's trying to get his mom and dad back together so that he can exist in the future timeline. And his dad goes. And he's like, dad? Like, no, he doesn't call him dad. But he goes, you know, she really likes you. Like, come on, get together. He goes, I wouldn't listen to you unless you were an alien showing up in my bedroom from another galaxy. And then he shows up. So it's almost like showing how we might mistake. And then Steven Spielberg, in an interview says, what do you think is more likely, you know, distant galaxies? Zeta Reticuli, you know, Andromeda, you know, whatever.
[31:13]
Flying Lotus
Or did he say Zeta Reticuli?
[31:15]
Jesse Michaels
He said one of those.
[31:16]
Flying Lotus
I was like. I was like, damn, sonny. Going there. Then he's definitely clued in.
[31:20]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah, Yeah. I don't know if he did. I might be putting that in his mouth. And he says, is that. Or is it us thousands of years in the future? And they're keeping track and trying to, like, adjust timelines. What if they're not from an advanced civilization 300 million light years from here? But what if it's us 500,000 years into the future? He said it with Colbert recently, and he apparently said it to the Deadpool creator. So I don't know. He might know some shit.
[31:46]
Flying Lotus
It was in the White House screening room.
[31:48]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah.
[31:48]
Flying Lotus
And Reagan got up to thank me for bringing the film to show him, to show the President, the First lady, and all of their guests. And he just stood up and he looked around the room, almost like he was doing a headcount. And he said, I want to thank you for bringing ET to the White House. We really enjoyed your movie. And then he looked around the room and he said, and there are a number of people in this room who know that everything on that screen is absolutely true. And he said it without smiling, but he said that. And everybody laughed, by the way. The whole room laughed, because he. He presented it like A joke, but he wasn't smiling as he said it. I think it's. It's perfect that he's doing this movie and you can get him on your podcast.
[32:28]
Jesse Michaels
Oh, let's go. How do we do that?
[32:31]
Flying Lotus
Reach out. Start now. Now.
[32:34]
Jesse Michaels
Well, he's a hardcore ufo. He. He Blur. You know James Fox, of course.
[32:37]
Flying Lotus
Yeah.
[32:38]
Jesse Michaels
So he, like, wrote a little complimentary thing, like a review for James Fox's first movie, out of the Blue, which.
[32:46]
Flying Lotus
I haven't seen that one, actually.
[32:47]
Jesse Michaels
It's from 20, maybe 14 or something. Like, it's from a while ago. So it's like, just shows how hardcore he's into it. Spielberg's into it, man.
[32:56]
Flying Lotus
That's wild. I think it was funny, though. Spielberg was like. I heard him say something like, he gave a lot of props to Denis Villeneuve for Arrival. He was like, yeah, this is the best UFO movie since Close Encounters. Damn, bro. You really on your shit like that. You really feeling yourself.
[33:17]
Jesse Michaels
That's.
[33:17]
Flying Lotus
That's great.
[33:18]
Jesse Michaels
Since my movie.
[33:20]
Flying Lotus
Best one since I did something.
[33:22]
Jesse Michaels
Arrival is amazing.
[33:23]
Flying Lotus
Arrival is amazing.
[33:24]
Jesse Michaels
It's incredible.
[33:25]
Flying Lotus
Rivalry is amazing.
[33:26]
Jesse Michaels
Do you ever read the book Associate? Was it Ted Chang? Story of our Time? I haven't either, so I just want. I have nothing to say about it.
[33:32]
Flying Lotus
Oh, be cool if I read it. Yeah. But, yeah, Spielberg, he's. He switched on, man. And James Fox, how do you feel about that Moment of Contact that. I thought that was interesting.
[33:47]
Jesse Michaels
I think that's his best movie ever. Well, I. I think the Phenomenon. James Fox is amazing. I love him. I think he's got the best energy. He's like the type of guy I. I would love for him to be the guy to film the first ufo. Find it, because he's been. He was valeting cars and painting fences while he was making his first movies. He's so passionate, and he just in it for all the right reasons. He's so collaborative. He just loves everybody, so he's the man. The phenomenon, I feel like, is the best, like, entry point.
[34:18]
Flying Lotus
Absolutely.
[34:19]
Jesse Michaels
You don't know anything.
[34:20]
Flying Lotus
I always show that to people who are like, right, what about what's going on with this? I was like, yeah, watch that one. Because it's like, it breaks it down in the best way. It's like gateway.
[34:27]
Jesse Michaels
Best overview, best gateway. Exactly. And then Moment of Contact, I think, is one of the best docs on this ever, so. And it's. I love that it's so out of left field. It's not some official US Government thing. It's like these People in Virginia aren't.
[34:42]
Flying Lotus
Lying about this stuff, and it's really, really fascinating.
[34:46]
Jesse Michaels
I just FaceTimed him. He's making moment of contact, too.
[34:48]
Flying Lotus
Oh, really?
[34:49]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah.
[34:49]
Flying Lotus
What else do you say about it?
[34:51]
Jesse Michaels
There's a lot of new crazy stuff. Yeah.
[34:54]
Flying Lotus
Okay.
[34:55]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah.
[34:56]
Flying Lotus
Well, I'm curious. Yeah, curious.
[34:58]
Jesse Michaels
Do you think that more, like. It was such a revelation to me to see that you were into this. I was like, this is the coolest collision in the world. Do you think that more people in just general culture continue? Because I think it's on Twitter. It's like you and Father John Misty are like. To me, like, the cultural icons who are, like, peeping into UFO Twitter and, like, liking stuff here and there. I don't know if you know that.
[35:23]
Flying Lotus
I didn't know that. That's cool.
[35:24]
Jesse Michaels
Oh, it's really random and funny. Yeah. And he wrote, like, something like. When I. When I heard Diana Pasulka say that Chris Bledsoe is the new Paul Benowitz, I realized I needed to get a life or something that was just, like, recent twins.
[35:39]
Flying Lotus
Perfect.
[35:40]
Jesse Michaels
It's like, bro, like, you are deep in it, you know, at that point.
[35:43]
Flying Lotus
That's perfect. Also, dude, from what? Blink182.
[35:46]
Jesse Michaels
Oh, Tom DeLonge. I mean, he's. Yeah, dude.
[35:48]
Flying Lotus
What? See, that's your autism, bro. That's your autism. You got everybody's name. Like, you're so good with names. I watch you do interviews all the time and you know everybody. The name was like, oh, yeah. I don't know how you do that. Like, somebody bring up some obscure books that someone wrote and, you know, the author's name and everybody who was in it and that dude, like, I forget everybody's name. I don't know Yalls name back here.
[36:12]
Jesse Michaels
Filming names already got Sam and Mauricio.
[36:17]
Flying Lotus
Are you lying?
[36:17]
Jesse Michaels
No, I'm not lying. I got that.
[36:19]
Flying Lotus
Right, right?
[36:19]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah. Yeah.
[36:21]
Flying Lotus
But I find that to be, like. That's actually super powerful.
[36:24]
Jesse Michaels
That's my whole. First of all, it's a totally useless skill.
[36:27]
Flying Lotus
No, it isn't. No, it isn't.
[36:29]
Jesse Michaels
You don't need memory. It's a parlor trick on a podcast.
[36:32]
Flying Lotus
No, no, no. It's always impressive to me.
[36:34]
Jesse Michaels
Well, I appreciate that. That means a lot that it's funny.
[36:37]
Flying Lotus
It means a lot to Sam and Mauricio, too, that you remember their names.
[36:41]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah. Well, hey, what can I say? I mean, I think it's. I think it's my only skill. After the Rogan thing, we hung out at the mothership at his comedy thing. And my girlfriend was there and she was talking to him for a bit, and he was like. It was the best compliment. He was like, jesse's memory is next level. And to me, his memory is next level. Well, I mean, because it's like he knows all sorts of crazy facts about all the. Like, I'm in a narrow domain. I probably have a decent memory on some of the other stuff.
[37:12]
Flying Lotus
But, like, he's got diverse interests. Yeah, he's got diverse interests. He's actually one of the people who got me to try DMT for the first time.
[37:20]
Jesse Michaels
No way. Really?
[37:22]
Flying Lotus
Back in the MySpace days.
[37:24]
Jesse Michaels
Whoa.
[37:25]
Flying Lotus
He was. He was talking about. And I think this is even before he. It was like a. Doing the podcast like that. But, yeah, he was.
[37:32]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah, he was early on dmt.
[37:35]
Flying Lotus
He was. You know, he's got me on Rick Straftsman's book. Yeah, all that stuff. And I brought some DMT for you. Just kidding.
[37:44]
Jesse Michaels
I think this would be the most absurd environment.
[37:47]
Flying Lotus
Don't smoke DMT here. Don't. Don't do it here. Don't do it here. I would break, but you should try it.
[37:53]
Jesse Michaels
Maybe I will talk about that last time.
[37:55]
Flying Lotus
Honestly, I don't.
[37:56]
Jesse Michaels
I've done ayahuasca.
[37:57]
Flying Lotus
Oh, that's right.
[37:58]
Jesse Michaels
Technically, I've done it, but not the. Not the fast acting.
[38:01]
Flying Lotus
Yeah, maybe. Maybe. Check it out if it comes your way.
[38:05]
Jesse Michaels
Okay.
[38:06]
Flying Lotus
Yeah, yeah, check it out.
[38:07]
Jesse Michaels
You've told me some stories.
[38:09]
Flying Lotus
Hey, you know, it's. It's fascinating stuff. I feel like my brain don't think of the stuff that. That showed me, so I find it to be really, really interesting.
[38:20]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah, that's fascinating. It's like you were in another objective reality. Like, where does that. If that's not in your mind?
[38:26]
Flying Lotus
Yeah, because, you know, where is that? I always think about, you know, people saying when they trip, they talk about, like, oh, I was in Jimi Hendrix's guitar when I was listening to his music and all that stuff, like, Jimi Hendrix was nowhere to be found. Yeah, it was like, really just stuff that I never. My brain doesn't go in this direction. But it's funny, though, because I don't really recommend it to people anymore, except people like yourself.
[38:52]
Jesse Michaels
I feel like my worldview is so trippy, though. I worry. I worry that it was like saying.
[38:57]
Flying Lotus
That, yeah, you're afraid that, like, you're not going to come back or something afterwards.
[39:01]
Jesse Michaels
Because I'm already so, like, my. My worldview is very different, I think, than the average person because I'm in all the weird Shit all the time. So I, I feel as sensitive as I ever have around, like, you know, just keeping this thing on, you know, straight.
[39:17]
Flying Lotus
No, I feel that.
[39:18]
Jesse Michaels
But in the right set and setting, if it were, you know, to come across my path, serendipitously, I would do it.
[39:23]
Flying Lotus
Who would throw a DMT with them?
[39:25]
Jesse Michaels
Maybe you, man. I mean, who else? No, maybe you.
[39:29]
Flying Lotus
That'd be awesome.
[39:30]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah, that'd be cool.
[39:31]
Flying Lotus
I wouldn't do it, though. It would just be you. That's wild.
[39:34]
Jesse Michaels
Rogan got you into it.
[39:36]
Flying Lotus
Maybe, man. It's.
[39:37]
Jesse Michaels
I saw he follows you on Twitter.
[39:40]
Flying Lotus
Yeah, from like forever ago, like when Twitter first came out, you know, I.
[39:44]
Jesse Michaels
Could see him liking your music. I know he likes hip hop for sure.
[39:47]
Flying Lotus
Oh, man. Well, that's interesting.
[39:49]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah.
[39:50]
Flying Lotus
I don't know. I don't know what's up with Joe. I find him to be an interesting dude, but as far as dmt, yeah, man. I think, I think you need to try it.
[40:04]
Jesse Michaels
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[41:23]
Flying Lotus
The way it came to me, though, was so weird because I. I remember after hearing Joe Rogan talk about it, I. I remember Saying something on. On MySpace, just talking about, like, I'm very curious about it or. And then I was in Australia. I was in Perth on New Year's. New Year's Day, they celebrate day there this summer.
[41:48]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah.
[41:49]
Flying Lotus
So as it was a morning party that I was at, it was like, must have been like noon or something like that. And I'm like throwing down. Played a really cool set and I don't usually like, toot my own horn if I don't deserve it. Right. Like, it was actually a good set I played. I was pretty wasted though too. So people like carried me outside. Carry my big ass outside. Yo. Like, because I was so wasted, I'm like sitting out on. On the patio of this venue and some dudes, just random Aussies came up to me and just like dapped me up and was like, yo, I heard you want to try dmt and just gave me like a fat sack of it. And I, like an idiot, smuggled it all the way back to the States. I did a whole tour out there, smuggled it the whole way and brought it back. I would never do anything like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But. But yeah, it was. It was some amazing stuff. I never seen any DMT that looked like that ever since, actually. Yeah.
[42:45]
Jesse Michaels
Do you feel like it changed the way you think after the experience?
[42:49]
Flying Lotus
You know what? It didn't, but it. It was more so validation to the idea that maybe there is some more than this.
[42:58]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah.
[42:58]
Flying Lotus
I think that's what it was helpful for. Just showing you that there was. There's way more going on. Yeah. Being behind the curtain, you know, And I think at that time, my life, I needed it, you know, my mom had passed away like a month. Month before that, so I feel like it was really a way for me to connect to the other side.
[43:23]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah.
[43:23]
Flying Lotus
Still be here, you know?
[43:24]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah.
[43:25]
Flying Lotus
So, yeah. I think again, I don't. I don't recommend it to everyone just because I. I do feel like if you are susceptible.
[43:33]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah.
[43:34]
Flying Lotus
To, you know, schizophrenia or any of that kind of stuff, it could set you off.
[43:42]
Jesse Michaels
So do you feel like the pain of your mother passing? You say that it kind of influenced Cosmic Grandma a lot, right?
[43:50]
Flying Lotus
Yeah, absolutely.
[43:51]
Jesse Michaels
Was. Do you feel like pain creates great art and it can spur on great art?
[43:57]
Flying Lotus
I think. I think it's a weird one with. That is. I don't know if that's real, but I'm just grateful to have art heart to turn to when I'm. When I need to go to church.
[44:14]
Jesse Michaels
It's an outlet.
[44:15]
Flying Lotus
Yeah. I need When I have to say something, I'm always so grateful for that. To be able to create music whenever I need to go back to the source.
[44:29]
Jesse Michaels
It's kind of awesome. Like when you feel overwhelming emotions, you have like a thing that you can just poured it into you.
[44:36]
Flying Lotus
Yeah.
[44:36]
Jesse Michaels
And I think a lot. A lot of people don't have.
[44:38]
Flying Lotus
They don't, they don't have. I'm really grateful for it because, you know, in a way I get, I get. My job is to go to therapy.
[44:45]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah.
[44:45]
Flying Lotus
Yeah, pretty much.
[44:46]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah.
[44:47]
Flying Lotus
Is to just heal, you know, and. And try to understand more about the world and the universe and stuff and ask questions through the music. It's, it's. It's a great. It's a great job.
[44:58]
Jesse Michaels
If you could smoke DMT with anyone in the UFO world, who would it be?
[45:09]
Flying Lotus
Good question, man. I'd be down to smoke one Bob Lazar. I'd be down. I'd be down to get Big Bob Lazar in that way. Man. That'd be fun. Yeah, I wouldn't. You know, I. I respect that experience so much that it would take a lot for me to do it again. Actually. I've only done it like two or three times.
[45:28]
Jesse Michaels
Okay.
[45:29]
Flying Lotus
And to try it again would be a lot.
[45:31]
Jesse Michaels
Yep.
[45:32]
Flying Lotus
Yeah.
[45:33]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah. I wonder sometimes some of these UFOs might be like. It's like, it's like. Is DMT like, you know, night vision or, like infrared or something? And if you were to hook those up to the optic nerve, you could see that. And DMT is like another version of that where it's like a window into.
[45:51]
Flying Lotus
I think Jake Barber was talking about that without saying so. I think he was alluding to that a little bit. And I think that maybe some of the other whistleblowers might have too. But, like, I do feel like there could be some connection. I. At least, the very least, that maybe this is something that we were, you know, connected to a bit more earlier in. In our development as human beings. You know, maybe we were closer to God, closer to the source, closer to the stars. And I think that part of that was maybe seeing some of those places that you can access on dmt.
[46:34]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah, totally. And I feel like the reason a lot of people don't believe Jake's story is the reason I do believe it because it involves this, like, mental connection. And I think for a lot of people, it's like you are grouping in ETs or NH. Non human intelligence along with psychic stuff. Give me a break. I'm not gonna, you know, dude, I'm.
[46:54]
Flying Lotus
Be honest with you. It was a lot though. It dropped a lot on the day and it was like, even for me, who. Someone who's like, I'm trying to be down, you know, like I was like, ooh, buddy, yeah, yeah, you gonna lose some people with that stuff. The second half of that story. You should just stayed on the first half, show the egg and let it go, you know. So next interview you could talk about that, that. But man, he dropped a lot on it and didn't blink either. I was like, bro, like go easy on it.
[47:21]
Jesse Michaels
Well, both he and David Grush have this like googly eyed. I've seen some look in that in both of their interviews with Ross Colter. I don't know if it's Ross's lighting or if like they've seen some, you know, and like they have that, you know, kind of, you know, like I've seen something kind of gnarly.
[47:39]
Flying Lotus
Grush blinks though.
[47:42]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Jake.
[47:43]
Flying Lotus
Something about that dude. I was just like, what is going on? Is he an alien? That's. But I think it was a little.
[47:50]
Jesse Michaels
Chiller in my follow up interview.
[47:52]
Flying Lotus
Totally, totally. And I'm just talking shit. I'm just having a good time. But I, I have so much respect for all those cats. Honestly. I think it's. They're all, I think they're all brave to just even knowing how crazy the community is, knowing how crazy the, the stakes are.
[48:10]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah.
[48:10]
Flying Lotus
And all this stuff. I, I do, I do feel like that it's a level of courage that is, is pretty next. And these people aren't, aren't media personalities. They're not trained to be in front of the camera and stuff. So you know, you got to give them a pass.
[48:23]
Jesse Michaels
No, they, they don't know what they're doing. Often you kind of have to help hold their hand and stuff and like, and they're scared and they. I've see, I see it firsthand because I often I'll get thrown in with them or whatever. They get a lot of backlash. Like, like they got Randy Anderson who he went underground and he saw this like gauntlet thing that like emitted hieroglyphics. And he was, he was stationed at Naval Surface warfare crane in Indiana. In Indiana in 2014, he was taken down a bunch of floors in an elevator to a deep underground military base. And then he was taken basically through a tunnel past a bunch of skiffs into something that said. I think it was like off off world or off planet technology.
[49:07]
Flying Lotus
Yeah, yeah, I heard about this yeah, yeah, yeah.
[49:09]
Jesse Michaels
And then.
[49:09]
Flying Lotus
Was he talking to Greer? Greer.
[49:10]
Jesse Michaels
He was talking to Greer before I met him.
[49:13]
Flying Lotus
Okay. Yeah, yeah. And.
[49:15]
Jesse Michaels
And I had been talking to him for six months. He's talking to UAP Curve, actually, before I met him, too.
[49:20]
Flying Lotus
Oh, cool, cool, cool.
[49:20]
Jesse Michaels
And I had some inklings that, like, this year was going to be kind of crazy as far as whistleblowers coming out. And I was like, dude, if there's ever a time, I think you should come out now. And he was in Vegas and came down to la and. But, like, right after that, you have all these guys being like. Like, he. He's not a Green Beret and he didn't pass these tests and he wasn't at war. And it's like, I spent. I got dinner with him the night before. I spent a lot of time with him and his friends. Like, hours. And I've met, you know, two of his.
[49:48]
Flying Lotus
So you're a scop dude.
[49:50]
Jesse Michaels
But I'm a.
[49:51]
Flying Lotus
They know.
[49:52]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah, that's right. That's right. I'm a.
[49:54]
Flying Lotus
They don't. I don't believe you.
[49:55]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah, well, there you go. There you go. But I. It's like, you know, and his friends are like, you hear their frustration and you see their DD214, like, their background. You're like, is anybody seeing this? And then you have these people. Well, I think it's fine. And I think he would even say it's fine to go after the experience. Be like, I don't know, maybe that was. Maybe he was psyopped. But when they. Then they go after his, like, background as, like, a war hero, it's like, come on.
[50:20]
Flying Lotus
It's a lot, man. It's a lot. And it's. No one wants to deal with that. No. And anyone. All these whistleblowers are watching how everyone's reacting to this stuff. They're doing their research. Why would anyone want to be. Put themselves out there like that. Totally picked apart.
[50:35]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah.
[50:35]
Flying Lotus
Be called liars and all this stuff.
[50:38]
Jesse Michaels
100%.
[50:39]
Flying Lotus
It's just not cool. But that's not fun.
[50:41]
Jesse Michaels
It's not fun. But I'm optimistic after this Wall Street Journal article. The reason being, I think it's really interesting. They say it's all part of this Air Force hazing ritual, which is really dumb for the Wall Street Journal to say, because I think then all of the witnesses around, UFOs, nuclear weapons, all these Q Cleared employees, all these guys. Guys sue the government.
[51:02]
Flying Lotus
Right.
[51:02]
Jesse Michaels
You know, or Wall Street. You're gonna follow up.
[51:06]
Flying Lotus
To the. The American Populace dog.
[51:09]
Jesse Michaels
There's like federal torture claims provisions. And so they, they are, they're. Because I think it's totally fake. There's no hazing ritual or if there have been, it's been in little spots here and there. That does not explain the whole thing. So they kind of back themselves into this interesting corner.
[51:25]
Flying Lotus
I think that's the problem is trying to blanket all of it ever. You know, it's like, I think so many of these things can be true. Personally, I think there's so many parts of it that, that can be true. You. There could be. There could be future human. There could be some grays, There could be some stuff that we're doing. It could be some stuff that China's doing. All these things can exist, I think.
[51:47]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah.
[51:47]
Flying Lotus
And it probably is.
[51:48]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah. Yeah.
[51:50]
Flying Lotus
I've been trying to figure out personally. Well. How I feel about all this stuff.
[51:56]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah.
[51:57]
Flying Lotus
Still. Because I go through this ebb and flow.
[51:59]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah.
[52:00]
Flying Lotus
Of just kind of being like, I'm always going to be fascinated.
[52:03]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah.
[52:04]
Flying Lotus
But in terms of my own personal beliefs, I'm just kind of always like ebb and flow with it. Like I'm really in or I'm like, I'm like back in. And I'm like, I don't know. So it's, it's, it's really, it's, it's really something that fluctuates for me. But I think I'm always gonna be curious. I'm always gonna be following it, whether or not, you know, I, I believe it. I just think it's all fascinating, especially. Cause it's all playing out on TV in Washington and you know, we're having congressional hearings about it.
[52:33]
Jesse Michaels
It's crazy. What got you into it to begin with?
[52:38]
Flying Lotus
Well, I mean, I've always been into sci fi. I've always been into the idea of aliens and stuff. I've never seen anything. And if I do, I probably can't say anything because I'm like the least credible person out there. Yeah. Of course Flylota saw that. Of course he did. But no, I haven't seen anything and. But I've always felt that there is more out there. And I, you know, I've made a film about a couple of films with alien themes. Yeah. And I think when I was filming Ash, when we were filming that movie, Aaron Paul told me about David Grush. Because that video, the videos of him with Ross Colhart has just come out. And I saw that on my timeline, but I was kind of like, ah, go through it. But then he Was like, yo, man, you gotta check him out. I believe this guy. And Aaron, I. You. I don't. I wouldn't have guessed that he was like, really into the topic, but, you know, I watched it and then it kind of took me down the rabbit hole, I guess. Yeah, but. But Aaron, you know, he's. He's wild.
[53:58]
Jesse Michaels
He.
[53:58]
Flying Lotus
He talked to Bob Lazar.
[54:00]
Jesse Michaels
He talked to Bob Lazar?
[54:02]
Flying Lotus
Aaron Paul talked to Bob. Yeah. And like, they were like writing messages to each other.
[54:07]
Jesse Michaels
No way. I know. I'd love to be a fly on the wall for that.
[54:10]
Flying Lotus
I know, I know. You got to get him on the show.
[54:12]
Jesse Michaels
I would love to. Well, I guess kind of a Vegasy show. Like, I don't. I'm trying to think where that would even have occurred.
[54:19]
Flying Lotus
I don't know how the connection is made, but like, he's a fascinating character. Whoa. Yeah.
[54:26]
Jesse Michaels
Well, Ash was amazing, man. I loved it. And this set kind of reminds me. I was texting you.
[54:30]
Flying Lotus
I was like, this is not a set. We're in a spaceship.
[54:34]
Jesse Michaels
We're in a. We're in an actual spaceship. And you have the coolest shirt. Oh, you want to show it to the camera? You got Lockheed Martin Aurora. Antimatter matter reaction, anti gravity. It's great.
[54:48]
Flying Lotus
I have another one too. Like the Lockheed Martin reverse engineering program.
[54:52]
Jesse Michaels
No way.
[54:53]
Flying Lotus
That's. It's ridiculous. I, I think it's fascinating. I. That whole thing, that whole side of it has just been like, just super interesting to me.
[55:02]
Jesse Michaels
So interesting. The reverse engineering stuff and how much of that. Because there's definitely weird deception and like, you know, psyops going on with aerospace and then how much of it is real? Because there's a lot of evidence that there's something there as well. So it's fascinating. But it's funny that you said, like, of course Flylo's seen an alien. When I first heard your music, I was like, this dude's an alien. Because I was super into like Dilla and Pete rock and DJ Premier, all these like 90s hip hop producers. And then you came on the scene and I think I. It might have been around your album Cosmogramma or Los Angeles, like 08 late oh, you know, 2010 era. And I just, I saw you play actually with Thundercat in New York. And I remember because, like, Dilla would mess people up because his stuff wasn't quantized. And then I remember hearing your stuff and I was like, this guy's on another planet. Like, this is crazy.
[56:01]
Flying Lotus
Hey. Well, you know, they made it okay. They made it okay for us to go there.
[56:05]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah.
[56:07]
Flying Lotus
So.
[56:07]
Jesse Michaels
Well, you took it to the next level, man.
[56:09]
Flying Lotus
Hey, well, hey, doing my part. Doing my part. Yeah. But, you know, it's. It's funny though, because I got, you know, just like everybody else probably. I got a lot of flack in the beginning for doing my thing, you know, and being. Being that person. Like, I. I keep bringing this up lately because it's so bizarre to people, but, like, back when I was first getting on and seen like around like, what, 2004, I get a lot of shit. Can I say shit? I'm a curse.
[56:40]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah, you can say shit. Oh, yeah, Yeah.
[56:43]
Flying Lotus
I used to get a lot of. For using a computer to make music.
[56:46]
Jesse Michaels
Really?
[56:47]
Flying Lotus
Back in that.
[56:47]
Jesse Michaels
Back in the day, instead of an npc.
[56:49]
Flying Lotus
Yeah, you had to have an npc, you know, or. Or SP or something like that. Or else you wasn't making hip hop, you was making techno or computer music or whatever. They was just like, there's no way. There's no way you can. You ain't. There ain't no swing in that computer. You can't swing with that. So it made me more determin to. To like, really get in there and get the sounds and to try different stuff. And. And I actually was. Was really encouraged earlier on in my development to, you know, just to do the other thing, just to try and go in different directions. And so I owe a lot to the people around me, really, who supported me to just like, not do. Not to do what everyone else was doing at the time.
[57:33]
Jesse Michaels
Well, you come from maybe the most kind of interesting musical family I could think of. Alice Coltrane is your. What is your great aunt. Is that right? And then Marilyn McLeod is your grandmother, and she wrote Love Hangover and she also wrote I Get High. Or wait, I Get High is the Styles P. Swizz Beats sample. But no, it is I Get High too, right? Yeah, the original Free to Pay, she wrote that as well. Well, so you just come from amazing, you know, family when it comes to this stuff.
[58:10]
Flying Lotus
They still was looking at me like I was crazy though, dog. Like, why does sound like some garb hitting on some garbage cans, you know, like, why. What is. What is this? And I was like, but you guys are crazy too. What are you talking about? But yeah, I had to find. Find my way just like. Just like we all do.
[58:26]
Jesse Michaels
It is true. Your. Your drums, I think, set you apart so much. It's like that plus the crazy synths, like, the like, sounded like it was like you. You leaned into the computer thing.
[58:38]
Flying Lotus
Yeah, yeah.
[58:39]
Jesse Michaels
And it was like that plus the drums, which, you know, was like. Yeah, it was like garbage, like, Back Alley, like crazy. And I was like, oh, my God, this is crazy.
[58:47]
Flying Lotus
Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, just. Just went for it, man. Just went for it. A lot of support from. From my grandmother, though. She was the first person to put a machine in my hands. You know, she had. Was The. The. The 6. 606, the TB606 or something like that. Like one of them drum machines with, like, you know, those weird analog sounds and stuff in there. And she was just like, here, take it. I was just making drum beats and stuff when I was really young, and that was kind of what. What set me up. And then just being around different family. Like, my cousin, he was making music on a Mac 2 CI. Like, old, old Mac, like back when that was like, super foreign to record on. And, you know, was watching him while I'm playing Sonic the Hedgehog, he's like, making stuff that sounded like Prince stuff. And, like, I was just always surrounded by music and always surrounded by people trying to make stuff that makes sense.
[59:47]
Jesse Michaels
You played Sonic the Hedgehog? Because it. I feel like it has a Sega, like, Wave Racer vibe.
[59:52]
Flying Lotus
Oh, man, no doubt. And those loops, man, they still in my head, man. You know, and I still. I still be sampling Sonic to too still to this day.
[60:02]
Jesse Michaels
That's awesome.
[60:03]
Flying Lotus
Yeah. Yeah.
[60:04]
Jesse Michaels
So was Alice an inspiration for you early on?
[60:08]
Flying Lotus
My Aunt Alice was such an inspiration. But I feel like my appreciation for her and her music grow grew over time, you know, like, when I was. I feel like kind of in high school, all this stuff started to make more sense to me, and I was really starting to see it. But then when I went to college and really started like, like, vibing there and, like, you know, trying mushrooms and stuff, like. And like, you know, leaving my brain and stuff, I'm like, oh, I get it for real now. You know, it was really starting to make sense and. And I had just the deepest appreciation for it. But, you know, still to this day, like, I feel like every other year I'll go back and listen to music that she made and just be like, what. What was she doing? How did she do that?
[60:54]
Jesse Michaels
Why?
[60:54]
Flying Lotus
Why she do that? That was a weird choice. Choice. Great choice. But, you know, like, yeah, I'm still. Still picking it apart after all these years.
[61:02]
Jesse Michaels
And you said she never saw her practice.
[61:04]
Flying Lotus
I never saw her practice.
[61:06]
Jesse Michaels
That's crazy.
[61:07]
Flying Lotus
In my. In my entire. And I, you know, she was like the Coltrane side, though. They're like the closest family to me in la. And so I spent a lot of time over there. I, you know, I went to this. To school right by their house. So I walked from school to hang out over there all the time. And, you know, I would see them very often and I never saw her practice. Never. And I remember when I. One time when I was like maybe like 10, 11 years old, I went over to the house and she had a beautiful piano, beautiful grand Steinway piano, surrounded by, you know, her harp and all these amazing instruments. I went in there, I was like, hey, can I go play your piano?
[61:48]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah.
[61:48]
Flying Lotus
She's like, well, so are you gonna play it? I was like, I don't. I don't know, actually.
[61:56]
Jesse Michaels
What do you think she meant by that?
[61:58]
Flying Lotus
She meant, am I gonna get down, dude? Like, don't mess around, you know, like, don't go in there, like, messing around on my piano. You gonna go in there and play it? You go play it, but you better play. So I was like, I took that, like, so I didn't do it. I never touched that thing ever.
[62:15]
Jesse Michaels
And she was very. She kind of spiritually tapped in as well, right?
[62:20]
Flying Lotus
She was the most tapped in, I would say. Yeah, there's a lot of influence, but I guess it would be more non denominational leaning, but. But yeah, a lot of. A lot of influence there. Definitely.
[62:33]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah, yeah. She's amazing. I mean, just hearing. What's it. I think it was Turia and Rama Krishna. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like that old blues kind of vibe. And it's just so beautiful. It's like ethereal and beautiful and you're like, where is this coming from? It's amazing.
[62:50]
Flying Lotus
It's wild because it can always be. You can always hear the blues and then it just goes to some other. Oh, just crazy places. And I remember being with her in. In Paris once. She. She had me come with her and. And Ravi. They played a show in Paris toward the end of her life. And I just remember just hearing her, you know, she was like. She was like Yoda. You know, she was like a Yoda type person where she was like real. She was really tiny and, you know, moved very slowly, very gentle with everything. But, you know, she just, when she went on that piano, boom, was busting out all crazy. And I was like, who is this person? And it was like even. Even Rodney, her son, he was like, whoa, what is going on? You know, so like, she just had. She was tapped in for sure to the source.
[63:42]
Jesse Michaels
Well, John was tapped in as well. I mean, I think he might be at least top three, maybe favorite jazz musician of all time. Are you a fan of his?
[63:53]
Flying Lotus
Absolutely. Absolutely. And. And I think, I think I was a fan of his first. And it was. It's funny because when I was growing up, up and I would. People would want to talk to my aunt and be around people who want to talk to her. I always want to talk to her about John Coltrane. All he want to talk to her about is like, what was it like being around John Coltrane? What was he like? What was he like? And she would always answer very humbly and you know, and then now it's like everyone wants to talk about Alice Coltrane and it's. It's really awesome to see that, just to see the turn happen. But I do wish she. That she was here to see her influence in the way. Because I feel like now I'm hearing way more about her than him. Even though he's, you know, I go to sushi restaurant, it's always John Coltrane playing, you know, in there. But like, I just feel like the young folks around are really vibing on her music right now. And it's really cool to see.
[64:52]
Jesse Michaels
Absolutely. Well, she really, I think, just pushed the envelope and experimented. Obviously he was. Is amazing too. Yeah, that is cool to see. And it's interesting how music kind of like your UFO interest ebbs and flows and changes and how do you feel like. Do you feel like it's in an interesting place right now? Do you feel like it's in a weird place? Like what music, Music in general. Is that even a. Is that even a. A question you can ask or is it just. It is what it is or like.
[65:20]
Flying Lotus
You know, as far as the industry and all that stuff, I. I can separate it and think about it in terms of like the actual music. Its. There's always some good stuff going on. Always, always, always interesting. You just gotta look for it.
[65:33]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah.
[65:34]
Flying Lotus
You gotta seek it out. But you know, if you're only gonna listen to what the charts are telling you, then you're probably gonna be thinking it's. It's all the same.
[65:43]
Jesse Michaels
It's definitely weird that it's now filtered by. Is the person a good social media personality?
[65:49]
Flying Lotus
Absolutely.
[65:49]
Jesse Michaels
That's weird to me.
[65:50]
Flying Lotus
Absolutely. And like the numbers, like people. People even see like. Okay, well, they only have certain amount of listeners on Spotify, so they're probably not that good. Yeah, they're probably not that great. Yeah, they only got like 10,000 listeners every month, so they're probably right.
[66:07]
Jesse Michaels
It's this, like, infinite force ranking of everything. Absolutely everything's a beauty contest.
[66:13]
Flying Lotus
Oh, dude.
[66:14]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah.
[66:14]
Flying Lotus
And I feel like in the past 10 years, you know, the. The numbers thing really got into the fandoms of rappers and stuff. Like, you know, first week sales and stuff. Like, people are like, kids are talking about rappers, first week sales. Like, selling what. What are people selling anymore? Like, y' all buying records and stuff out here? Like, what is. What is. It's just. It's super weird that that's actually part of the conversation in terms of, like, is something good or interesting? It's like, what are they selling? How. How much are they moving? How many units are they moving? Like, it's like old barbershop conversation or something that has just now become, like, a very, very popular bit of a conversation, unfortunately.
[66:57]
Jesse Michaels
Well, you started an amazing record label, Brain Feeder. Do you feel like. And I didn't even realize some of the people you had signed I was independently fans of and doing research.
[67:08]
Flying Lotus
Oh, I like that. I like who.
[67:09]
Jesse Michaels
I was like, Taylor McFerrin. I was like, of course he signed in. Like, it's like, similar drums and of.
[67:16]
Flying Lotus
Course you'd be into Taylor McFarlane.
[67:17]
Jesse Michaels
Oh, I love, like, that. When I first heard I think it Degrees of Light, I was like, wow. Like, this is crazy. Like, what is that? It reminded me of you a little bit. And Daedalus. I'm trying to think. There were a couple others on there where I was like, damn, I didn't even know you guys had worked together.
[67:33]
Flying Lotus
Yeah, yeah. Brain Feeder has been going for a minute, man. It's been going for a minute. And it's. It's something that I'm actually really, really proud of because it's. It's, you know, something that is kind of flourishing on it on its own at this point, you know, And I'm still doing a lot of work with Brain Feeder and curating and, you know, the A R side, but, you know, that. That's like a. It's a machine that's moving and it's awesome to see.
[68:00]
Jesse Michaels
And maybe through that, you can fight back a little bit where it's like, I don't care if you have 10,000 weekly streams or whatever. I love it, you know?
[68:07]
Flying Lotus
Absolutely. Absolutely. And, you know, it's. It's become a thing where it's. There's a lot of risk in the personal sense, because I want to do right by the artists, but as far as everything else, there's no risk for me. You know, I'm not Trying to make money there.
[68:27]
Jesse Michaels
I'm not.
[68:27]
Flying Lotus
It's really not my source of income like that. It is, but it's not, you know, at the same time. So I just was like, it's. It's my passion project, but, like, like, I've been so grateful to be able to see all these different artists flourish and have their careers and, you know, they're doing their thing.
[68:47]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah.
[68:47]
Flying Lotus
Being there. Yeah.
[68:48]
Jesse Michaels
Super cool. Is there anybody you're into now that the public probably doesn't know about?
[68:54]
Flying Lotus
Oh, yeah, absolutely. There's a. There's an artist just named Thing.
[68:59]
Jesse Michaels
Okay.
[69:00]
Flying Lotus
Just Thing.
[69:01]
Jesse Michaels
I love it.
[69:01]
Flying Lotus
Drum and bass. Some drum bass, like classic drum bass. But sometimes we'll mix up some like. Some like uk, like, two step, you know, kind of Gary UK garage kind of vibe, you know, smaller following, doesn't matter, don't care. But like, I'd be in the gym, it's like doing it. Listen to Amen breaks and stuff. Like. Yeah, so it'd be. It's kind of random, but. And the cat puts out stuff, like every week. It's pretty.
[69:30]
Jesse Michaels
Damn.
[69:30]
Flying Lotus
I know. It's Thing. Yeah. Thing.
[69:32]
Jesse Michaels
Go check out.
[69:33]
Flying Lotus
Thing is dope. Thing is dope. Yeah.
[69:35]
Jesse Michaels
Sick, man.
[69:36]
Flying Lotus
Yeah.
[69:37]
Jesse Michaels
And you've worked with some of the most legendary artists. Like. Yeah. I mean, one of the guys, I feel like you're just probably friends first and then collaborator second is Thundercat, who I saw you live with in New York.
[69:51]
Flying Lotus
Yeah. Yeah.
[69:52]
Jesse Michaels
He's amazing, man. He's so awesome. And he. He credits you for having helped give him a voice and. Because he was just playing bass primarily. Right. And you kind of. Of helped him out and you were like, look, man, you should just sing over your. Over your tracks. Is that right?
[70:07]
Flying Lotus
Yeah. He was doing some oohs and ahs on stuff, and I was like, what's going on? You know, let's do it. And. And then there was one day I'll never forget. And I. I think about it all the time. We were sitting in my apartment, my sweaty apartment in Northridge, and he just, you know, we were working on some music. I had these like, like, portable, portable lunch tables. They're like. They're like the, you know, the classic picnic tables or whatever. That's where I had all my. My gear set up on. And it was like, surrounded by all these like, medicinal marijuana jars. And it was. Yeah. He just looks over at me and he was like, man, I want to be your artist. And I. I was like, yeah, what does that even mean? You know? Like, what does that Even mean, I never. I've never done that sort of thing before for. And, yeah, we've just been going at. Man. Ever since. We've just been going for it, and it's. It's been awesome to see. And. And honestly, something I take so much pride in, aside from my own work, is, you know, just seeing how his music and his message and his influences affected the world.
[71:17]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah. You see, he's another guy who, like, you know, back in the day, I think was always respected, like, as a. Almost like an artist artist, where it was like, he's amazing on the base.
[71:29]
Flying Lotus
Yeah. Yeah.
[71:29]
Jesse Michaels
And then, like, in the last five years, I feel like people are just like, everybody knows who Thundercat is, which is so cool to see.
[71:36]
Flying Lotus
Yeah. I was. I was randomly at dinner and they're. They're playing his music just randomly, you know, it just comes on like, let's go. Yeah. I love it. I love it.
[71:46]
Jesse Michaels
Is he into alien stuff? Like, I could see he seems like such a. Like a fun, kind of goofy personality. Like, I could see him being in the.
[71:53]
Flying Lotus
You know, I. I feel like he's, you know, he's kind of like, come over the house and I got like, some weird alien YouTube videos on, and I'm like. I turn them off real quick. I'm not watching any of that stuff. No one. But I don't think he's really into it.
[72:05]
Jesse Michaels
Okay. Okay.
[72:06]
Flying Lotus
I don't think he's super into the. The stuff, but, you know, because he's probably an alien exposed, you know.
[72:15]
Jesse Michaels
Exactly.
[72:15]
Flying Lotus
You don't like the exposure, or maybe.
[72:18]
Jesse Michaels
He would act into it. Like, you. You never know.
[72:22]
Flying Lotus
Maybe. Maybe.
[72:23]
Jesse Michaels
Maybe we might be, you know, it might be walking among us.
[72:27]
Flying Lotus
Right. Maybe. Maybe.
[72:29]
Jesse Michaels
I want to list some artists, and you've either collaborated with them or you might have something to say about them. I want to get just one sentence about each of these guys.
[72:41]
Flying Lotus
Okay.
[72:41]
Jesse Michaels
J. Dilla.
[72:47]
Flying Lotus
One of the greatest ever. Very grateful to have met him a couple times close to the end of his life. I feel like I saw him maybe a week or two before he passed away.
[73:03]
Jesse Michaels
Crazy.
[73:04]
Flying Lotus
I delivered a check to his house.
[73:05]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah, let's tell that. You told me this. So crazy.
[73:08]
Flying Lotus
I used to work at Stone's Throw back in the day, and he.
[73:14]
Jesse Michaels
Were you like, you were like.
[73:15]
Flying Lotus
I was an intern. Yeah, I was intern. There. There. A paid intern.
[73:21]
Jesse Michaels
Okay.
[73:23]
Flying Lotus
I was working there long enough. They had to. Had to start kicking me down a little bit. But, yeah, I was there. And yeah, he was finishing up the donut stuff. That was. That Was happening. Mad Lib sound directions, he was doing that. It was like he started. Mad Lib, starting to play drums live and stuff. And that was kind of like that the time I was there. And, yeah, they were. They were finishing up some business, and they. They sent me over the house, like, yo, you might see something over there. Just, you know, be cool. Because he wasn't in really good shape, you know, toward the end.
[74:03]
Jesse Michaels
He had, like a blood disorder or blood cancer or something.
[74:07]
Flying Lotus
Lupus. And I don't know what else, but something else. I think something else was going on too. But, um. But, yeah, I was. I. I got to see him. The machines were still on, you know, he was in a wheelchair. He looked really bad, man. I cried after I left there. I was like. I was fully in tears just because. Not only because of what I saw, but just because I still felt the energy. I still felt the power still. I felt the. The. The. The. The force. And it was strong still, man. It was really strong song, even toward the end. And it was. It was really, really. It was a lot, but it was. I was very impressed that even then, you know, everything was still lit up. He was still working on some.
[75:00]
Jesse Michaels
Was he. Good energy? Was he. Was he.
[75:03]
Flying Lotus
Oh, he's great. Yeah, it was great. And, you know, I could tell he didn't want anyone to see him like that. Yeah, and that was the thing, too, was like, I could. I didn't really want to look him in the eyes, bro, just because I just tell you. And they still was, like, holding it together and. Yeah.
[75:16]
Jesse Michaels
And he was at Common's house, right?
[75:19]
Flying Lotus
Yeah, I think they were. Yeah, they were living together, but, yeah, his mom's was taking care of him. Around him too. Yeah.
[75:25]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah, you listen to some of those tracks, like that Isley Brothers sample, Don't say Goodbye, you call it bye, or whatever, and you're like, oh, my God, he's like, saying goodbye. And it's so ethereal. It's so, like.
[75:37]
Flying Lotus
Yeah, it's crazy.
[75:38]
Jesse Michaels
Or Donuts of the heart, that Jackson 5 sample.
[75:43]
Flying Lotus
It's like. Yeah, when. When I was there, I think it was. It was finishing up the Shining. The Shining stuff was happening.
[75:49]
Jesse Michaels
Okay.
[75:49]
Flying Lotus
Donuts was already done.
[75:50]
Jesse Michaels
Oh.
[75:51]
Flying Lotus
By then, we were already, like, hearing all that stuff in the office. And, you know, we were getting, like, donut deliveries, you know, and, like, there was, like, a couple beats coming through, and we would, like, gather around the record player and, like. Or whatever, and just be like, oh, it's me. You know, just be, like, blown away.
[76:09]
Jesse Michaels
That's Interesting. So he was doing the Shining after Donuts?
[76:13]
Flying Lotus
Well, yeah, I think there was. There was still little ebbs and. Little ebbs and flow. Little bits and pieces that were kind of like, you know, still lying around for. For Donuts. Like, I think. Can't remember exactly which one, but there was some stuff that wasn't all finished.
[76:30]
Jesse Michaels
Okay.
[76:30]
Flying Lotus
It wasn't all finished and delivered. There was like, pieces of that. And I think Shining was finished by, I think, J Rock or Kareem Riggins back. Back then, so. Okay. Okay. Yeah.
[76:41]
Jesse Michaels
Okay. Yeah. Stone's Throw was so interesting. Like, what a constellation of amazing it was. You know, Peanut Butter Wolf started with him and Charisma and San Jose, and then they came to la kind of for Mad Lib, who was blowing up at the time. And like, man, was that an inspiration for you, for Brain Feeder just being.
[77:00]
Flying Lotus
There, it was a huge inspiration. Before I. You know, I was actually living in San Francisco studying film, and a buddy of mine was like, you know, he was. We call him Crazy John. Cause he was crazy. He was insane, dude. But he had. He had great taste in music. And he was like, oh, you like hip hop? Well, you need to listen to lp. You need to check out MF Doom Metal Fingers. Okay. Victor Vaughn Madly. I was like, okay, I'm gonna check these people out. And I went and bought these records and my mind was blown. And I was like, you know, just. Yeah. Started getting back into making beats. I made beats when I was younger, but when I was in college and like, hearing that stuff, I was really. I got really into it again, like, and more so on the sampling side, because all the stuff I had made before was kind of like synth based and, you know, messing with groove boxes. And then that was like the gateway into sampling. Getting back into that stuff, listening to Wu Tang and hearing all that.
[78:11]
Jesse Michaels
But favorite Wu Tang Clan member, the Rizza, of course. Yeah. Producer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Although Jizza had some amazing beats too.
[78:23]
Flying Lotus
Absolutely amazing beats. Absolutely.
[78:25]
Jesse Michaels
Barizzo Heart and soul.
[78:27]
Flying Lotus
Yeah, yeah. But. But yeah, when I was. When I was in school, I remember just being like, you know what? I'm a skip. History of Film School History of Film. And just like work on some beats right now.
[78:40]
Jesse Michaels
Wow.
[78:40]
Flying Lotus
I'd be doing that. And then I heard about this label, Stone's Throw, that was in LA back home. And I was like, you know, maybe I need to. The whole scene was in LA too. So I was like, man, I need to get out of San Francisco, go back and be around these people and get in that Energy, So that kind of led me back there. Stone's throw brought me back in a weird way. Way.
[79:01]
Jesse Michaels
I love it. All right, let's keep going on the artist.
[79:03]
Flying Lotus
Sorry, I was only supposed to give you a sentence.
[79:05]
Jesse Michaels
No, no, this always happens. I love it.
[79:07]
Flying Lotus
It's.
[79:08]
Jesse Michaels
It's. We're flowing.
[79:10]
Flying Lotus
No wonder your shows are, like, three hours.
[79:12]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah, man. It's just. It's always just. I think the best conversations are just free association. Just what you're. You know, whatever comes up.
[79:21]
Flying Lotus
Yeah, true.
[79:23]
Jesse Michaels
Speaking of which, you just named two people I was going to ask you about, so let's go Mad Lib first and then MFT soon.
[79:31]
Flying Lotus
Okay. Mad Lib was. Was definitely one of the most inspiring folks around, considering he was one of those people who was like, oh, it don't matter what you use, you know? And I'm like, okay, well, I use a computer, you know, they don't matter. Just make something. And then this episode is brought to you by LifeLock.
[79:57]
Jesse Michaels
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[80:18]
Flying Lotus
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[80:19]
Jesse Michaels
Visit lifelock.com podcast for 40% off terms apply.
[80:24]
Flying Lotus
It was like, the output, you know, I remember being an intern, and they showed me the, like, the. The box, you know, like all the Mad Lib tapes or whatever. They were like, all right, you know, check these. Check these out. And it was like. It was insane just being able. Like, it'd be like hundreds of beats or like, he would fill up all these CDs.
[80:49]
Jesse Michaels
Crazy.
[80:50]
Flying Lotus
And I would listen to all them joints, man, just be like, whoa, what is going on?
[80:53]
Jesse Michaels
You know, and just crazy.
[80:55]
Flying Lotus
And it would make me feel lazy. Lazy just made me feel lazy. And it just. But also, it was one of those things that just kind of lit the fire.
[81:01]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah.
[81:02]
Flying Lotus
It's like, okay, I need to work on this thing. I need to keep going.
[81:05]
Jesse Michaels
There you go.
[81:06]
Flying Lotus
So it was. He was definitely influential in that. And just the energy, you know, he was just such a cool, humble person. And, you know, whenever I got to be around him, it was just like a. It was a special day. It was always a special day just because, you know, he was. He just had such a. A. An impact on. On the whole community, too. Like, there was aside from, you know, the, the stone throw thing. You had this kind of adjacent squad of producers who would hang out kind of around like the. Any kind of stone's throw related event. You know, there would be like the cats like DiBiase and Georgia and Muldro, Ross G, you know, take and all these other. Other great producers who went on to go and do great things. We started to build a community kind of on the side of what they were doing. And, you know, we'd be out front of whatever parties they were throwing with a little boomboxes playing each other's beat tapes and stuff. And that was really, you know. Oh, man. Mad Lib came by earlier, you know, with, you know, dudes who worked at, you know, Poobah Records and Amoeba. They'd be like, over there, like, yeah, man. He came in, he got this record, this, that, whatever. So it'd always be like, like, you know, legendary Mad Lib, stories of what's going on. But always, always really influential and really inspiring.
[82:29]
Jesse Michaels
And he wasn't Quasimodo like an accident. Like, that's how prolific he was. Like, I think Peanut Butter Wolf like found that or something, was like, dude, this is actually pretty cool. And then he kind of ran with it.
[82:40]
Flying Lotus
Yeah. Yeah, that's exactly. Yeah.
[82:42]
Jesse Michaels
So crazy.
[82:43]
Flying Lotus
Yeah, man. And Doom. Yeah, Doom was. I mean, to me, he's. He's my favorite rapper still to this day. You know, I. I think he's kind of. He mastered the, The. The Persona of, of the, The. The character he created. Yeah, he really did. He was really the villain, bro. Like, I mean, all the stories you heard about Doom are true. I don't know. They're not. It's not legend. It's all true.
[83:16]
Jesse Michaels
Like, not showing up.
[83:18]
Flying Lotus
Like, not showing up to stuff. Like, not showing up to stuff. I remember there was. There was a gig. We invited Doom. You know, I had. I had a show in. In London and he was going to play and, you know, we fly out to. I fly out to London. I think he's already there because he had been deported or something. I think he was already living in the uk, huh. So we're like, great, get Doom on stage, you know, And I think as we were sound checking, we're. I'm in the venue.
[83:50]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah, yeah.
[83:50]
Flying Lotus
It was like, this is the day, I think day before because we had to set up that. The whole visual show the day before he canceled the gig. And it was. That's kind of unheard of. I mean, hear that and. Oh, okay, well. But doing that sort of thing in this business is. Is not cool, especially when you have flyers and all stuff, promoting everything. We actually got Jay Electronica to fill in that spot, which is also a really crazy thing to do is he's also like.
[84:21]
Jesse Michaels
He's another guy where it's like you never know when he's going to release his album or show up.
[84:26]
Flying Lotus
But I think, I think he had reasons to come visit the UK and well, he was.
[84:32]
Jesse Michaels
Is he married to like a Rothschild? I didn't want to go there. I did, I did.
[84:37]
Flying Lotus
I wasn't.
[84:38]
Jesse Michaels
I said it for you.
[84:39]
Flying Lotus
I said he had a reason. I don't know what the reason is still, but yeah, very elite. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But he came out and rocked it. It was wild. But yeah, it was, it was really, it was really scary. And that was that moment. I was like, oh, wow, he really is the villain. He doomed me right here. But man, you know, it's like after that happened you just. Well, yeah, it's the villain.
[85:07]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[85:08]
Flying Lotus
It's what he does.
[85:09]
Jesse Michaels
I feel like he's just the most el of interesting. Like, I don't know. It's interesting with him too where we were just talking about Thundercat, you know. I feel like 10 years ago it was still more kind of underground hip hop obscure circles where hardcore fans of Doom. Now he's on Tick Tock. Like he is mass media.
[85:32]
Flying Lotus
Yeah, they biggie to. Man, it's wild.
[85:36]
Jesse Michaels
It's wild.
[85:37]
Flying Lotus
Super cool to see. I just, for some reason I just thought of like the first time I met Doom though. I met him at, at Peanut Butter Wolf's Halloween party. I was like, bathrobe man. Because that was all I had was a bathrobe. I couldn't, I didn't have any other costume. But you had. I'm like a dude in the bathrobe with some sunglasses.
[85:57]
Jesse Michaels
I'm Hugh Hefner. And.
[86:00]
Flying Lotus
And Doom shows up. He just got into town. He just, he just shows up as himself, of course. And I'm like, you know, hey, man, how's it going? How, what's. How you live and how long are you in town? You. You welcome to la. How long you out here? And he was like, can I trust you? It's like that. I hope so. You know, like that was the first thing that was his response to me and I was like, okay, he's a. He's a special, special cat.
[86:30]
Jesse Michaels
Very special. Well, you hear him way back in the day we were talking about this, this last time when we hung out, he was In a group called Third Base. And he is in that song Gas Face. And his voice is, like, different. He seems like more of like. Like he's trying to be this, like, more square, like, cut and dry rapper.
[86:48]
Flying Lotus
Yeah. Like, Tribe Called Quest vibe a little bit.
[86:51]
Jesse Michaels
100% early 90s. And then he, like, goes off grid. I think he's homeless for a while and he comes back as doom. And you're like, oh, my God. Like, his voice is different and, man.
[87:01]
Flying Lotus
Yeah, he's. He'd been through something. He'd been through a lot, actually. But, yeah, there's something about it. He locked in. He figured it out. He just fully embraced the villain.
[87:14]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah.
[87:15]
Flying Lotus
I think there's a really cool movie to make, definitely.
[87:20]
Jesse Michaels
Why don't you make it? You're the. You are the most qualified because you make amazing movies.
[87:25]
Flying Lotus
I am the most qualified producers, 100% and a stage.
[87:31]
Jesse Michaels
You knew the guy. You made music as close to that genre. You have a. You were on a track with him between Villains with Captain Murphy.
[87:40]
Flying Lotus
There's two tracks? Yeah, there's two tracks. There was. We're supposed to do EP together.
[87:45]
Jesse Michaels
Okay.
[87:45]
Flying Lotus
He had a whole bunch of stuff on his computer. You know, the classic. Classic tale of, like, a hard drive full of stuff. A lot of it. There's a lot of my stuff on there. And what's going to happen to that?
[87:58]
Jesse Michaels
Let's get that out.
[88:01]
Flying Lotus
Estate.
[88:02]
Jesse Michaels
Estate movie and hard drive.
[88:05]
Flying Lotus
Yeah. Thundercat actually got to see him close to the end. He went. I think he saw him at his house in. In London. He was over there. He was. He was staying in London for a while, so. Got to have him talk about that.
[88:18]
Jesse Michaels
Oh, I'm curious. That's amazing. Okay, let's keep going with the. The crazy list. Kendrick O.
[88:26]
Flying Lotus
Actual genius. Actual genius. Weird little guy. I remember asking Kendrick, yo, man, what books are you reading? It was like, oh, man, I don't be reading, man. You know, Power of now. I was like, okay, all right. That's cool. You know, I was so surprised someone like him. Him who has so much to say and very thoughtful. Didn't. Didn't read. Didn't like reading books and stuff. I just felt like it was all in there. I thought it was all books.
[89:02]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah.
[89:03]
Flying Lotus
I felt like he was always referencing books in his work.
[89:07]
Jesse Michaels
He is referencing. I wonder if he. Some people are just kind of tapped into and they're channeling.
[89:13]
Flying Lotus
It's just like, yeah, actual genius. Yeah. You know, the kind of person that shows up, writes it on the spot. No, no fanfare.
[89:24]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah.
[89:25]
Flying Lotus
You know, he came through wearing some, like, you know, some. Some slippers with some socks on and wearing some shorts and a hoodie and just kind of, you know, just kind of came through and killed it, bro.
[89:37]
Jesse Michaels
Like, would you say best battle rapper of all time?
[89:42]
Flying Lotus
I wouldn't put it in the battle rapper category. Personally, I think think he's. He's. He's definitely one of the most important voices in. In music. To Pimp a Butterflies is a classic album.
[89:57]
Jesse Michaels
Amazing.
[89:59]
Flying Lotus
Yeah, I. I have one of those people too. You're just like. It's. It's so. You're like, wow, okay. I don't want to get in your way.
[90:08]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah, yeah. I don't want to.
[90:09]
Flying Lotus
I actually don't want to be. I don't want. Want to be near you. I just want you to be able to exist and not, you know, like, it's. There's something very. He has this sort of, I don't know, this vibe about him where he's just like super quiet.
[90:27]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah.
[90:28]
Flying Lotus
Maybe he's in his head. You don't say much. So I just was like, I just want him to do his thing. I don't want to interfere or interrupt whatever. His. Whatever is going on, this process. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Who's.
[90:39]
Jesse Michaels
Who's top five for you? MCs.
[90:42]
Flying Lotus
Woof. He's up there. If not, you know, number. You know, top three at least. Yeah. Him. Doom, man. This is the worst question to ask. I'm on camera. I don't suddenly don't know anybody. They've all fallen off the face of the earth right now. What else you got?
[91:06]
Jesse Michaels
I got.
[91:06]
Flying Lotus
I got.
[91:06]
Jesse Michaels
I got a couple more I want to get through. A Q tip.
[91:10]
Flying Lotus
Ooh, Q tip. He's a super, super inspiring dude. Amazing producer. That as well as rapper. I think he didn't get. He doesn't get enough credit as producer from amazing perspective. Yeah.
[91:29]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah.
[91:30]
Flying Lotus
Really great beats, the great energy, the voice. I don't know him that well, but we try to collaborate on some stuff. I think sometimes the thought of working together is better than the result. Sometimes.
[91:48]
Jesse Michaels
For sure.
[91:48]
Flying Lotus
You know, But I would love to. To have another go.
[91:53]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah.
[91:53]
Flying Lotus
At that. Yeah. For sure.
[91:55]
Jesse Michaels
What about Aphex Twin?
[92:00]
Flying Lotus
Aphex is interesting in that because, you know, he was one of those people that I listened to back before I was in college without knowing who or what or why. It didn't matter. It was just dope. It was just cool electronic music to me. Square pusher Almonte and those guys were kind of like in my Sphere. I wasn't, like, fully in the electronic zone, but those were like, the kind of auxiliary pillars for my ears. But. And I always found a lot of inspiration from the music videos. Chris Cunningham videos. And when they did that director series back in the day, the DVDs, they had just had all the collections of music videos from, like, Chris Cunningham, Michel Gondry, and so on. And I always just would run those. We'd run those so much and just, like, just pick them apart. Just because, you know, being in film school and thinking about music, music videos, like, those were the most cutting edge. Those were, you know, that series, that director series. I wish they would re. Release those on. On, you know, 4K whatever things now. Yeah, I don't think it'll ever happen.
[93:23]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah. Okay. Final one in this series. Kanye.
[93:27]
Flying Lotus
Ooh, you know Kanye. It's funny, man. I actually. I never really had the. Like, I'm a super Kanye fan. I never had that thing, but I did love Jesus. I didn't like it when I first heard it. Then it really grew on me. And I think that that album, regardless of what, you know, he has become, I feel like that album was really, really ahead of its time, and it set a tone for many years in music. Not just hip hop, just in music in general. I think that sound, it kind of expanded and it. People took it in different directions. And I think, you know, there's so much of, like, electronic music that has come from that and hip hop and the intersection. The very influential stuff. Yeah, but. But, yeah. Then. What a nutcase.
[94:38]
Jesse Michaels
A little crazy. Yeah.
[94:40]
Flying Lotus
Yeah, man. I'm not one of those Kanye sympathizers, man. I fell off the train. When he said slavery was a choice, I was off that.
[94:50]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah, I'm gonna get off now.
[94:53]
Flying Lotus
Fully tripping.
[94:54]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I just hope he's okay, man, because he's musically a big inspire. I love him. I think he's amazing. And I just wish.
[95:05]
Flying Lotus
I don't know.
[95:05]
Jesse Michaels
I wish he would just stop whatever is going on now.
[95:08]
Flying Lotus
I don't know.
[95:09]
Jesse Michaels
It feels like it's. He's definitely trying to get a rise. Like, it's like if there is a third rail, he'll touch it. Yeah, he'll hit it. And then there's some other part where you're like, is he even in control? Like, I don't know.
[95:21]
Flying Lotus
Yeah, well, you know, mental illness is a thing, man. Yes, it's a thing. And people are capable of. Of being very successful and mentally ill at the same time. That is a thing.
[95:34]
Jesse Michaels
Often they're correlated.
[95:36]
Flying Lotus
Right. And also too like, you know, the dude, he's just like. Yeah, got probably like a lot of yes men around. People like enablers, people just like, I mean he's got a. Of couple cult, you know, and people who are still apologizing for him constantly and just be like, oh, he, you know, he's just, he's, he's going through it, you know. But it's also got to be really hard for someone like him to have been at the top of, of the music pyramid or whatever and to now just kind of just be existing among other other great people, not being the greatest and top selling most Grammy collecting person or whatever. Like it's got to be a little, a little difficult for you.
[96:26]
Jesse Michaels
100. A little fall from grace there.
[96:28]
Flying Lotus
Yeah, it's got to be, it's got to be. It's got to weigh in on you.
[96:33]
Jesse Michaels
Who are your biggest inspirations when it comes to filmmaking? You put David lynch in one of your videos.
[96:41]
Flying Lotus
You already know.
[96:42]
Jesse Michaels
You already know. Did I just answer it for you?
[96:44]
Flying Lotus
Yeah, I think you did. I think he did, yeah. David Lynch. Woo. He was.
[96:51]
Jesse Michaels
You have a favorite David lynch movie.
[96:53]
Flying Lotus
Favorite David lynch movie is probably Eraserhead.
[96:56]
Jesse Michaels
That's makes sense because of the movies you make. That is such a crazy movie.
[97:01]
Flying Lotus
Yeah, it's, it's a crazy. All this stuff is pretty out. Lost Highway. So I got into David lynch through being a fan of Trent Reznor back in the day, which is really, really. It trips me out when I think about it, because he worked on Lost highway, he did some music for Lost highway. And I was following him at that time. Okay. And then I was like, oh, what's this movie? Who's this guy? Lost Highway. Loved it. And then I kind of got way in at that point and that was. He was one of those people too early on where I was like, oh, maybe, maybe I should go to film school. Maybe this is for me. Because I really, I really love this. I really love this. And I think he also really got me inspired. Aside from the filmmaking, more so like the living the art life as they say, you know, where you just kind of fully commit. You just, you're fully, you're fully in it.
[97:58]
Jesse Michaels
You know, that guy's tapped in.
[98:00]
Flying Lotus
Yeah. You wake up, you smoke and you, you get to work. Work and you, you. That's your life.
[98:07]
Jesse Michaels
Just create.
[98:07]
Flying Lotus
Yeah, that's your life. And that's how I live my life. Sans the smoking part. It was weed, but I've given that up a bit. But, yeah, like, seeing that and seeing that it worked for someone and that they've made their. Their best, the. Some of the best things, it's like, okay. It's okay for me to be this way.
[98:31]
Jesse Michaels
Oh, yeah.
[98:32]
Flying Lotus
You know, it's. I can. I can do this and I can live this way, and it's okay, you know, to you kind of make sacrifices that, you know, you have to have, like, whatever that regular life is.
[98:45]
Jesse Michaels
It's almost like his life itself is art. Like, you see him doing the weather in the morning. And I remember I ended up at his house because of some tm, you know, transcendental meditation benefit.
[98:55]
Flying Lotus
Yeah.
[98:56]
Jesse Michaels
And he was giving some speech and it was about, you know, he's like, all you gotta do is tap in twice a day. You know, the old TM thing. And I was like, this guy's on another level. Like, he's on another planet right now and he's getting downloads. And he's a. He's truly amazing. And I feel like a lot of filmmakers try to do the David lynch thing and they fail. Like, they get so hard.
[99:17]
Flying Lotus
Yeah. Well, I think. I think the issue comes from people still feeling like they need to satisfy the audience and have some sort of, like, making sure everyone knows what's happening and having closure. And it's like there's a difference where I think with his work, it's more so about how something feels versus how something. What mean. What it means or what it's supposed to do or where the story is supposed to go. It's more so the feeling that it. It gives you. And I think he always tells people that you know what it means. Yeah. Even if you don't think you do.
[99:57]
Jesse Michaels
Yes. Yeah. And it's. It truly, I feel like he'll break a lot of sacred cows or, you know, do things that you're not supposed to do, but it, like, it just works. And.
[100:08]
Flying Lotus
Yeah.
[100:08]
Jesse Michaels
I'd say Blue Velvet for me is one of my favorite movies of all time.
[100:12]
Flying Lotus
It's so good. And it's so good. I love that one too, because it's a. It's such a good gateway David lynch movie because it. On. It starts off, you know, like. Like most movies in a way. It starts off kind of simply and it actually. Of all the stuff, it is kind of more commercial leaning. So it's one of those ones. And it gets weirder. Yeah. And they have those moments. I'll never forget the scene near the end. Spoiler alert.
[100:42]
Jesse Michaels
That, you know, what they deserve for it.
[100:44]
Flying Lotus
Yes.
[100:44]
Jesse Michaels
But if you haven't seen Blue Velvet.
[100:47]
Flying Lotus
Can you show a clip of this? Can you show a clip?
[100:49]
Jesse Michaels
I might be able to.
[100:50]
Flying Lotus
Well, maybe a frame.
[100:51]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah, show a little frame for sure.
[100:53]
Flying Lotus
All right, so the frame is. Is when. What's the guy's name? What's his Name? And Kyle McLaughlin.
[101:02]
Jesse Michaels
Kyle McLaughlin. Yeah.
[101:03]
Flying Lotus
The main character, when he walks into homegirl's apartment and some shit had already gone down and there's the. The detective who's like wearing the yellow suit and he's just standing there, there. He'd already been shot in the head, but he's just. He's standing there still. I love that image so much. It was so haunting, dude. Like that kind of thing, it's just so surreal and such a. Kind of like, wait, is this a mainstream movie? Is this not. But it's just one of those things. Like that's. You see, you can see his painting background right there. Because that's like. That's just like some. Yeah. Some bugged out.
[101:41]
Jesse Michaels
And I feel like it's a juxtaposition between this like suburban, like kind of fake.
[101:47]
Flying Lotus
Yeah.
[101:47]
Jesse Michaels
Light vibe. Like in the first scene, I think is like some dude watering the garden or whatever. And he like chokes himself.
[101:54]
Flying Lotus
Fire truck going by, all of. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[101:58]
Jesse Michaels
He's. He's the best man. And so you like. How many years have you been like eight years that you've been making movies now? Or have you maybe before that on a smaller scale or. How long have you been making movies?
[102:13]
Flying Lotus
Well, if you want to go there for a while, I. I started messing around with camera a long time ago when I was a kid. When I was in film school, I made a. A short film called Use Me which won the audience award at the time. And I was. I've just been always messing around with stuff. My friends have seen all my work, but the rest of the world has it.
[102:40]
Jesse Michaels
Dude, I love. It's crazy. Like Kuso and VHS and Ash are all epic and they break your brain. Like that's what art is supposed to be, I think. Like, it's really. They're all insane. So everybody gotta go watch.
[102:57]
Flying Lotus
Kuso was fun and it's crazy. My favorite, I think, yeah, Kuso is fun because it's at that point now where people are re examining it and they're like, man, that movie, I love Kuso and. But at the time people were just.
[103:08]
Jesse Michaels
Like, what the were you thinking?
[103:10]
Flying Lotus
What are you doing? You can do this, you can't do this. And it was. It was really right. That movie came out, like, right before you couldn't really do anything anymore. It was like right when they started.
[103:21]
Jesse Michaels
Like, oh, little cancel culture vibes.
[103:24]
Flying Lotus
Right. And I feel like I felt that coming on, like, you know, just peoples were getting a little sensitive to stuff and. But I feel like now, because things have gotten so stale in a way, something like that kind of stands out.
[103:38]
Jesse Michaels
It's coming back. Yeah. I think, like Gen Z, Gen Alpha. I think they're just like, fuck this. Like, we like good art. Like, it's all good.
[103:47]
Flying Lotus
There's some of the people who saw Ash were like, oh, man, I don't know. It's not like cuso, man. I'm like, all right, fair enough.
[103:54]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[103:55]
Flying Lotus
It's definitely not kuso.
[103:56]
Jesse Michaels
No, Kuso is the will break your brain. Ash is a little more of a. A movie movie, like, structured. And Ash is amazing, man. And I feel like it, like, really plays on themes that are growing in the zeitgeist right now. It's kind of the AI theme a little bit. And it's also, you know, it's a little bit of the pandemic Covid thing going on as well, where you have this kind of brain eating, like, you know, parasite that takes over. I don't want to spoil that either.
[104:27]
Flying Lotus
You spoiled it already.
[104:28]
Jesse Michaels
I might have just spoiled it.
[104:30]
Flying Lotus
Yeah. Let it happen. Just let it happen. That's cool.
[104:33]
Jesse Michaels
But that was amazing. It's an amazing cast.
[104:36]
Flying Lotus
And it's funny, though, because when I think of that movie now, I feel like if only I had done it now that I know so much about the, you know, the. The lore. The UFO phenomena. Lore.
[104:49]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah.
[104:50]
Flying Lotus
It would probably be a little different or I would have a different take on some of the stuff that I did.
[104:57]
Jesse Michaels
How so?
[104:58]
Flying Lotus
I don't know off top, but I just feel like now I should be making the alien UFO stuff. Maybe the next one will be. But I feel way more qualified to tackle the topic now just because I've been so deep in it, you know, but, you know, there are so many stories to tell, you know, so many. So many that are. That are. Are, you know, one of those things where it's like, it's stranger than fiction.
[105:30]
Jesse Michaels
I was. You just took the words out of my mouth. I was like, that's what I love about the UFO topic is it is weirder than fiction.
[105:37]
Flying Lotus
Yeah.
[105:37]
Jesse Michaels
And if that's a cliche to say, but it's true.
[105:40]
Flying Lotus
It's absolutely.
[105:40]
Jesse Michaels
You hear some of these stories, you're like, what happened? And then you're like sitting in front of the guy and you're like, you have no mental health history. You were in a high position in.
[105:48]
Flying Lotus
Government and like, you got security clearances. All that. He's saying all that.
[105:52]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah, Yep.
[105:52]
Flying Lotus
Wild.
[105:53]
Jesse Michaels
Crazy, wild.
[105:54]
Flying Lotus
Wild. But yeah, I. I find so much inspiration and just listening to the stuff, whether or not it's true or not, it doesn't matter. It's like, I just find it fascinating. Like, yeah, keep talking.
[106:06]
Jesse Michaels
Well, I can't wait to see the Fly Low UFO alien movie.
[106:11]
Flying Lotus
Neither can I. Neither can I. And neither can my friends. Cause I can't stop talking to them about it. So they're ready.
[106:16]
Jesse Michaels
I love it. It's one of those things where once you get. Go down the rabbit hole, it's like, hard to not be annoying about it.
[106:22]
Flying Lotus
Like, I really had to just try to just not go there. But, you know, some people be like, all right, so what, give me the download. What's going. What's been going on?
[106:32]
Jesse Michaels
You know, and you always get loop back in. You get tired of it and you're like, this is crazy. There are all these psyops, There are all these shit people. And then you take a break and then something happens. You're like, fucking back.
[106:43]
Flying Lotus
Yeah, true, true. Yeah, man. When that, when that. Damn. Because I used to really fuck with Jeremy Corbell and George Knapp, but then when Jeremy Corbell went on that whole tangent about the, the missing page and the fact that he. His name was taken off of the whole thing, and it just really rubbed me the wrong way. That whole thing made a big old stink about it.
[107:07]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah, it was weird.
[107:08]
Flying Lotus
And it was obvious that it's like, it's not about you.
[107:12]
Jesse Michaels
It's not about you. Yeah, yeah, it was like that. That's an official government document. And what really got me was Matthew Brown met Schellenberger before Jeremy.
[107:24]
Flying Lotus
Right, Right.
[107:25]
Jesse Michaels
So it's like. And he's not putting a cover letter promoting his podcast or what? So, like, I didn't, I didn't quite get.
[107:30]
Flying Lotus
Are you gonna separate the Matthew Brown interview into three parts to next week, kids, for the next episode of Disclosure?
[107:38]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah, I like Jeremy, but he.
[107:41]
Flying Lotus
Yeah, I mean, I'm still watching this shit, so obviously I do too. But it's just, it's. It's all the stuff just makes me. It makes the unease part. Well, creep in.
[107:52]
Jesse Michaels
Totally. Well, Matthew Brown also requires a follow up. Like the stuff that he said, it was like, you know, I saw these documents. Immaculate. Here's the maybe the weirdest, most interesting thing it Was like, I figured out immaculate constellations. Lou Elizondo's name was tied to that program. And then Lou Elizondo's testifying with Michael Shallenberger saying, you know, I can't confirm or deny whether I was read in. Basically saying, I was read into this shit. So it's like, Lou, like, tell us, man. Like, and then you have Corbell, like, doing speaking tours with Lou and stuff. So it's like, let's take this thing a little bit further. And then Matthew Brown gets into. He just tweeted the other day. I don't know if you saw.
[108:31]
Flying Lotus
No, I didn't see it.
[108:32]
Jesse Michaels
Oh, he tweeted the weirdest. Like, it was like, talking about how the White House has, like, a crystal ball, basically. Like, they have some proprietary AI that, like, predicts future timelines, which is from a story base. Like, if I were in. Be trying to be inspired for, like, a movie, like, so interesting. But, like, it's like, dude, what? Where are you getting that? Like, it's. That's fascinating.
[108:54]
Flying Lotus
Like, that would be crazy if true.
[108:56]
Jesse Michaels
Crazy if true. And I want to know. And we DM'd a little bit, but, Matthew, if you're out there, follow up. And we.
[109:01]
Flying Lotus
Me.
[109:02]
Jesse Michaels
I know you said you wanted to talk, because that's. That's insane. That's like. That's fascinating.
[109:08]
Flying Lotus
Yeah.
[109:09]
Jesse Michaels
And implying that, like, what else was. Did he say.
[109:13]
Flying Lotus
He said a lot in that interview, too.
[109:14]
Jesse Michaels
Said a lot. Said a lot. And he said that there is a God, but that we're in kind of like, this prison planet and that these, you know, beings are, you know, we're kind of, like, captured by some of these beings.
[109:26]
Flying Lotus
Well, we're like an energy source or something like that.
[109:29]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah. We're a resource.
[109:30]
Flying Lotus
That's what he said.
[109:31]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah.
[109:31]
Flying Lotus
Hmm. Yeah. I don't know.
[109:33]
Jesse Michaels
That's kind of dark. I don't. I don't. I don't know. I don't know if I want to believe that that's it. You know, hopefully there's some more meaningful going on.
[109:40]
Flying Lotus
I hope so, too, man.
[109:41]
Jesse Michaels
We're not just getting mined.
[109:44]
Flying Lotus
I wouldn't be surprised, though. But they'll stop eventually. They're like, hey, you know what's funny, though? I keep thinking about this shit. Like, aside from the Barney Hill.
[109:55]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah.
[109:56]
Flying Lotus
Any of the black abductees out there. Hmm. Well, is it like.
[110:03]
Jesse Michaels
That is you. We talked about this last time. That is the og you know, abduction, so. But that's a great question.
[110:14]
Flying Lotus
I mean, aerial school, right?
[110:15]
Jesse Michaels
Aerial school, for sure. Then there's that little girl who says. She says, in space, there's no love, and we have love. And so that's why the being wanted to come down and interact or whatever.
[110:26]
Flying Lotus
Whatever.
[110:26]
Jesse Michaels
I think that in space, there's no love, and down here there is.
[110:32]
Flying Lotus
There is love.
[110:32]
Jesse Michaels
Yes. So.
[110:35]
Flying Lotus
But, yeah, like, they're not.
[110:37]
Jesse Michaels
But you think the ratio is a little off.
[110:38]
Flying Lotus
They're not taking. No black people at night time coming in your crib and, like, taking in that just is. For some reason, you think it's a.
[110:46]
Jesse Michaels
It's a lower percentage than the percentage of the population or.
[110:50]
Flying Lotus
I mean, maybe it's just not reported or something. But I don't. I don't know. I find that really fascinating. If you could find some, like, a book of black abductees or whatever. I want that book.
[111:03]
Jesse Michaels
Let's audience, let's get the stats on that.
[111:05]
Flying Lotus
Yeah, yeah. It's a. It's a. It's a funny thing.
[111:08]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah, well, yeah. I mean, the first one. I mean, I don't know if they were the first, but the first. Very documented, you know? But that is interesting. I don't know. Well, Flylo, this was an honor.
[111:20]
Flying Lotus
That's it. No.
[111:21]
Jesse Michaels
How long? I think we.
[111:24]
Flying Lotus
That was three hours.
[111:26]
Jesse Michaels
This is amazing, man. I'm. Anything else that we're missing here or what? I'm trying to think.
[111:33]
Flying Lotus
We might have got it, man. We might have got it. But keep fighting the good fight, man.
[111:36]
Jesse Michaels
Thank you, bro. I will. And you, too.
[111:39]
Flying Lotus
I'll do my best. Yeah, but play some more of them beats, though. Y' all don't know that. That's his beat in the intro to the show. Like. Yeah, I found. I figured that one out.
[111:51]
Jesse Michaels
Oh, man. Most of my beats.
[111:53]
Flying Lotus
Put some more beats on, dog.
[111:54]
Jesse Michaels
Dude, I can't be talking to you about beats.
[111:59]
Flying Lotus
I'll tell you to do it. I'll tell you. Keep going.
[112:01]
Jesse Michaels
Okay, okay.
[112:02]
Flying Lotus
Keep going.
[112:03]
Jesse Michaels
I need to. I need to.
[112:04]
Flying Lotus
But it's therapy, you know?
[112:05]
Jesse Michaels
But then I hear your beats and other people who I, like, admire, and I'm like, I can't make beats, man.
[112:12]
Flying Lotus
It's supposed to be fun first.
[112:13]
Jesse Michaels
Okay, okay.
[112:14]
Flying Lotus
It's fun first, man. Like, have fun, you know, and just explore, you know? If something happens, great. But, like, just have fun with it. That's the thing. I have to remind myself, too.
[112:22]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah.
[112:23]
Flying Lotus
You know, like, there's so much pressure when I sit in the chair.
[112:26]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah.
[112:27]
Flying Lotus
To do anything now that I have to remind myself that, like, no one has to hear or see or anything. Like, I Can just have fun doing this.
[112:35]
Jesse Michaels
Isn't that interesting about art where you start and there's no self consciousness and then you become this thing for other flying lotus. You're like a concept for, like, other people, but you're like, still in your head. You're like, I'm just this dude.
[112:48]
Flying Lotus
Yeah.
[112:48]
Jesse Michaels
But maybe sometimes when you sit down, you're. And you're like, I gotta, like, adhere to this level of quality that I've done.
[112:54]
Flying Lotus
Absolutely. And it's a daunting thing to just have a catalog and a lineage and a history and all this stuff. But at the end of the day, I know that people can hear when I'm having a good time. I know it.
[113:09]
Jesse Michaels
That's beautiful.
[113:10]
Flying Lotus
I think y' all can hear it.
[113:12]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah.
[113:12]
Flying Lotus
You know, you can hear when I'm inspired and when I'm having a good time. It's like, it's obvious, I think. Hmm.
[113:18]
Jesse Michaels
Do you sometimes look back at your life and you're like, damn, like, this is stranger than fiction. Like, it's a movie. The amount of people you've intersected with and your own insane career and then how much you've been able to do in cinema and you've done, I mean, deeper cut. People know, Captain Murphy, that you rap too, and hip hop, production, like, everything. Do you ever.
[113:45]
Flying Lotus
I do. And I'm. I feel like. I just feel very grateful, man. I feel very grateful every day I written on my refrigerator. Be grateful, because I am. It's just I have the best job in the world and I have so much love and support for all my endeavors. You know, of course, some people don't like what I do. Some people like this. Some people don't like that Cosmic grand was the only good thing he did. It's fine, you know, but like, I'm. I'm having a great time. I'm creating stuff and I'm. I always try to hold on to that part that, the. The innocent part of. Of that, because it's. It's. They want to take it from you. You know, as soon as you start putting stuff out, they want to take that. And, you know, your management, you got managers and people in your pocket and your families, and then people want. Need money and you got to like.
[114:35]
Jesse Michaels
Support, support, you know, and the legal aspects of music and the ownership and the. Yeah. Instead of just like creating.
[114:43]
Flying Lotus
Yeah. And it's all. All gets in the way of. Of the fun and all gets. It gets too heady. So, yeah. Try trying to hold on to that, man. Is. Is a thing and like, kind of trying to always stay inspired, always chasing whatever that will keep me happy and inspired. So thing.
[115:02]
Jesse Michaels
I love it. Well, I don't know if I'm going to start making beats again, but maybe I'll send you some samples because that. It's funny. I have a little bit of an encyclopedic mine with the UFO stuff and then it's. And then it samples.
[115:16]
Flying Lotus
I know, it's crazy. I was so shocked when you started, like, you know, dropping. Dropping tunes on me. I was like, dude, you know your thing, man.
[115:24]
Jesse Michaels
I mean, I love it.
[115:25]
Flying Lotus
Very impressive.
[115:26]
Jesse Michaels
I love it. I don't know. Well, it's. It's more impressive to make this stuff.
[115:30]
Flying Lotus
Than just, you gotta send me some playlists, man. You gotta send me.
[115:34]
Jesse Michaels
I'll send you some stuff. I'm sure you've heard everything that. I'm sure you're deeper on all this stuff.
[115:38]
Flying Lotus
I may. I may know a thing or two, but it's still nice to hear where your ears at.
[115:42]
Jesse Michaels
But I'll send you some old soul. Like, I'll send you some samples.
[115:45]
Flying Lotus
Come on, dog.
[115:46]
Jesse Michaels
I will.
[115:47]
Flying Lotus
Let's get it. You promised me those samples when we first started talking. I feel like that was early this year and I still ain't got nothing.
[115:55]
Jesse Michaels
Okay, okay, I'm gonna send you some samples. I will send some.
[115:57]
Flying Lotus
I know you. You're a busy man. You know, you got. You got a lot going on, so I. I give you pass. But I'm. I'm. I'm waiting.
[116:02]
Jesse Michaels
Okay, I will send you samples. And you can do so much more with these samples than me. So I really need to send you samples.
[116:09]
Flying Lotus
Yeah, get sued. That's what I'm getting.
[116:12]
Jesse Michaels
You can't really sample anymore, huh? It's just. You got to just interpolate or whatever.
[116:15]
Flying Lotus
It's a rap especially, you know where I'm at. You know, people like, ready to flag.
[116:22]
Jesse Michaels
Because you're so big.
[116:23]
Flying Lotus
And whatever you want to say about it, they know I'm.
[116:26]
Jesse Michaels
They're looking for. Yeah, yeah.
[116:27]
Flying Lotus
So, like, like, it's. It's not fun, you know? So, like, that's why I end up doing a lot more keyboard stuff and less sampling. Just because it's like.
[116:35]
Jesse Michaels
Why did that. Cause, like, back in the day, they would clear sample like you think about, like.
[116:40]
Flying Lotus
They would?
[116:41]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah. No, they wouldn't. Well, I'm just thinking about, like, Juicy Fruit and to May or whatever or, like, I don't know, upside down from Diana Ross into, you know, it's like you're Taking the whole song. Like, that's not even sampling is generous or whatever. You are literally taking a loop from the song and then putting some drums over it or whatever.
[117:01]
Flying Lotus
Yeah.
[117:01]
Jesse Michaels
Like, so, like, I look at that and I'm like, why aren't they getting. Why isn't there some big legal thing with that?
[117:08]
Flying Lotus
Maybe some of the samples were cleared.
[117:10]
Jesse Michaels
They were clear.
[117:10]
Flying Lotus
But a lot of times it's not necessarily the artist who will sue you. It's their kids, you know, like that. The grand grandkids coming after, you know, like because they're in charge of the estate.
[117:24]
Jesse Michaels
Right.
[117:24]
Flying Lotus
And they be listening things.
[117:26]
Jesse Michaels
Right. Like that. Robin Thicke, Pharrell, Blurred lines, Marvin Gaye over the baseline or whatever.
[117:33]
Flying Lotus
Yeah, that was bad luck, though. That was bad.
[117:35]
Jesse Michaels
You think that was just like really, like too much?
[117:38]
Flying Lotus
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You should have saw something interesting. Saw someone looking over. You should be looking over your shoulders doing that kind of thing.
[117:46]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was, that was an obvious base. Yeah, that was kind of maybe a little rip off. Well, it's hard to. I don't know. I, I, I'm usually pro. The person taking the stuff and it's like if you're doing something new with.
[117:58]
Flying Lotus
It, you know, I am too. But again, you can't speak for the state and yeah, being a person who's, you know, my grandma, she wrote Love hangover.
[118:08]
Jesse Michaels
Yep.
[118:09]
Flying Lotus
And people sampling her music is how we ate for years.
[118:13]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah, totally. I love that song, by the way. If there's a cure for this.
[118:18]
Flying Lotus
But, you know, people sampling that was like, you know, Bone thug sampling. Like, um, Will Smith sampled it. Like, so many people had sampled her stuff. And yeah, man, like we, we probably would have been out on the streets if it wasn't for, you know, people clearing those samples and the radio. Yeah, yeah, that was, that's how we, we ate. So I, I totally see. I know the game. I get it. I get it. People gotta eat. So.
[118:48]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah, that makes sense. And she deserves all the credit for that. I mean, what a dollars million about. Didn't she do stuff for Lamont Doer back in the day too?
[118:55]
Flying Lotus
I believe so. I don't know though, actually.
[118:58]
Jesse Michaels
I think so.
[118:58]
Flying Lotus
I don't know what on a different. Under a different. There was a group or something because he was.
[119:03]
Jesse Michaels
Lamont Doer was in one of those groups. I'm blanking on which one. But he also had a solo career and he was a great solo artist. But I thought she might have written something for him, but.
[119:15]
Flying Lotus
Put me on, dude. Tell me that'd be awesome. I'm. I mean, look, people have been telling me stuff like that, though. Like, she was. She had done some stuff in her Motown era that I hadn't heard. You know, my grandma was around. She was like, more so writing. Trying to write new songs and trying to, you know, write jingles and stuff. So she wasn't really focused on the back catalog as much. It was just like, when those samples and things would come up, it would feel like hell. And, like, even the Free to Pay and I get high. I didn't even know she did that until the Styles P. Styles P. I Get high. I didn't even know she did a song without getting high, dude. I was like, what, Grandma? That's so funny. I had no idea.
[120:02]
Jesse Michaels
That's a beautiful song. The original is amazing. It's, like, ethereal and opulent and, like.
[120:08]
Flying Lotus
Just some really amazing sounds in there.
[120:10]
Jesse Michaels
I feel like writers back in the day, in that Motown era was. Were the most underappreciated, like, you think about. I think about the Motown roster, obviously, like, greatest of all time, maybe record label, maybe ever. And. But, like, really the lynchpin, I feel like, is Smokey Robinson, who is writing all the stuff for everybody else. I'm like, damn.
[120:29]
Flying Lotus
Like, how did you write It's Wild, man? And, like, some of the. Just some of the session musicians, you know, who they would call back in and all that stuff, the beginning be like, that would be part of the sound. That's part of, like, the. The foundation for all this great music.
[120:46]
Jesse Michaels
And then they would sometimes get sick of writing, and they'd be like, we want the. We want to be up in front. Up, up front.
[120:52]
Flying Lotus
Like my Thundercat.
[120:54]
Jesse Michaels
Like, Thundercat. There you go. That's a great example. Or I remember, like, you know, like, McFadden and Whitehead, like, ain't no stopping us Now. Like, they were writers before, you know, they lost of it.
[121:05]
Flying Lotus
Yeah, yeah.
[121:06]
Jesse Michaels
My.
[121:06]
Flying Lotus
My grandma was doing. She had her own music at the time, too. And, you know, I don't think much happened with her own stuff, her own personal music. But, yeah, there was. I think a lot of those writers were musicians and wanted to have a career singing and, you know, maybe didn't pop off, but they could write, so. But it's a. It's a thing I. I would see still.
[121:31]
Jesse Michaels
She wrote for Junior Walker, too.
[121:33]
Flying Lotus
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love Junior, but, yeah, man, like, even in. In modern days, you see it. There's just. There's people who was like, Sia, she was like a songwriter, but she was like, kind of like a background character. Didn't want to. And then. Yeah. So eventually just like, you know what? I'm doing my thing. Not gonna show my face, though.
[121:53]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah. Never Never World. That's cheap one. That's the move, right?
[121:59]
Flying Lotus
Yeah.
[121:59]
Jesse Michaels
You're that big.
[122:00]
Flying Lotus
Yeah. And you can just hide.
[122:02]
Jesse Michaels
Incredible.
[122:03]
Flying Lotus
Yeah. Yeah.
[122:04]
Jesse Michaels
Maybe she was inspired by mfd.
[122:06]
Flying Lotus
I was just thinking about that dude. Like, man, he really did figure it out, didn't he?
[122:11]
Jesse Michaels
He figured it out.
[122:12]
Flying Lotus
Damn. That was funny because I. I only just made the connection to the Gladiator mask.
[122:18]
Jesse Michaels
Oh, dude, it looks the same. I. I just didn't want you to the connection.
[122:22]
Flying Lotus
I was like, what is that?
[122:25]
Jesse Michaels
That's wild. So he must have been basing it off of Gladiator is Gladiator.
[122:31]
Flying Lotus
I feel like that I don't know where the mask comes from, but that is like the same mask.
[122:37]
Jesse Michaels
It's the same mask. Yeah, because you have it going. It goes below the chin. Yeah. Whoa. That's trippy. Yeah, man. He. His stuff is so like the metal fingers. Beats and stuff too.
[122:48]
Flying Lotus
It was funny, man. When I first got into that stuff, like, these are some of the worst beats I've ever heard. Well, they're just like raw as hell. And then eventually they're like, come the best beats you've ever heard.
[123:00]
Jesse Michaels
Well, he would just take. Well, they were all named after Roots.
[123:03]
Flying Lotus
Yeah.
[123:04]
Jesse Michaels
You know, and then he would just take like a Doobie Brothers loop and just throw it on there.
[123:09]
Flying Lotus
Throw the worst snares on.
[123:11]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah.
[123:12]
Flying Lotus
And then eventually, like. Okay, I get it. We just kind of work. Yeah.
[123:17]
Jesse Michaels
Okay.
[123:18]
Flying Lotus
Yeah. Yeah.
[123:19]
Jesse Michaels
I love it, man. Well, round two. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[123:23]
Flying Lotus
All right. We'll actually finish this.
[123:25]
Jesse Michaels
Actually wrapping up. I could talk to you for hours, man. Fly low. This was an honor. True honor. And hopefully we come back when you are making your movie, your crazy movie. That'll be.
[123:38]
Flying Lotus
I would love to. And thank you for having me. Honestly, it's so cool be on the other side of this, man.
[123:45]
Jesse Michaels
Oh, man. I appreciate it and I. I owe you some sample. I'm now publicly being held account accountable for this.
[123:51]
Flying Lotus
Yeah, yeah. I need. It's time. It's time.
[123:53]
Jesse Michaels
Okay.
[123:53]
Flying Lotus
I might not put it out.
[123:56]
Jesse Michaels
If you did. That would be a life moment for me on the order of, like, probably more important than anything I've done. You know, when you do a thing in the domain, you. You kind of know you're okay at or whatever. And you're like, all right, fine. This would be so much cooler for me now.
[124:15]
Flying Lotus
It's gotta happen. Send me some shit. Let's get it going. I'm send you some shit.
[124:19]
Jesse Michaels
That would be crazy.
[124:20]
Flying Lotus
It would be.
[124:20]
Jesse Michaels
Appreciate you. Thank you, man.
[124:22]
Flying Lotus
Thank you.
[124:22]
Jesse Michaels
You know, that just got me thinking, like, you know, Joaquin Phoenix provided Pusha T with a beat.
[124:29]
Flying Lotus
No way.
[124:29]
Jesse Michaels
Do you know about this?
[124:30]
Flying Lotus
No, no, no, no.
[124:31]
Jesse Michaels
I think like that King Push song. Like. Yeah. I don't know if he gave it to him and it was produced by somebody, but he. Yeah, it came from Joaquin Phoenix.
[124:40]
Flying Lotus
Joaquin Phoenix gave the beat to Yay. So when I got the beat from Yay, it was.
[124:45]
Jesse Michaels
Yo, Joaquin gave me this beat.
[124:46]
Flying Lotus
That's interesting.
[124:47]
Jesse Michaels
Really weird.
[124:48]
Flying Lotus
I've been hearing about some low key producers. Robert Pattinson be making beats.
[124:53]
Jesse Michaels
No way.
[124:54]
Flying Lotus
Yeah.
[124:54]
Jesse Michaels
Dude, is he good?
[124:55]
Flying Lotus
I don't know. I've been trying to get him. So just for my curiosity.
[125:00]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah.
[125:00]
Flying Lotus
Gotta know.
[125:01]
Jesse Michaels
Oh, wow.
[125:02]
Flying Lotus
Gotta know.
[125:02]
Jesse Michaels
Oh, that's so cool. Yeah, I just. I don't know how to do drum. I'm so good at the sample selection in and then I just always sucked at drums and I think.
[125:12]
Flying Lotus
Do you program them in?
[125:14]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah, just midi.
[125:15]
Flying Lotus
Yeah, that's why.
[125:16]
Jesse Michaels
Oh, you gotta play them some.
[125:18]
Flying Lotus
It's.
[125:18]
Jesse Michaels
But I don't think I can play them. I just. I don't know.
[125:21]
Flying Lotus
You can really. Don't. Don't knock it yet. Just try it. Just try it. The clicking, the beats thing is difficult. It's difficult to get a vibe.
[125:30]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah, yeah. From that.
[125:31]
Flying Lotus
It's. It's really difficult. And I actually do that sometimes, knowing what it's gonna sound sound like. Like sometimes I want stuff that sounds rigid on purpose.
[125:42]
Jesse Michaels
Yes.
[125:42]
Flying Lotus
But like, it's only. Only then because, like, I just cannot. And a lot of people do that. A lot of people just click them in and I just cannot do it.
[125:51]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[125:52]
Flying Lotus
If I want that feel. Yeah, but like, you got it. You just got it.
[125:55]
Jesse Michaels
But even I remember, like, there's a Kanye interview where he's like, I can. He says he. I mean, he's amazing. But he was like, I could never figure out drums. He was like, my drums didn't slap like Dilla. He was like, my drums were not like Travis Scott. Like.
[126:09]
Flying Lotus
Yeah, but his drums. He did his thing.
[126:11]
Jesse Michaels
He did it.
[126:11]
Flying Lotus
He does his thing with what he's got, you know, And I think. I think, you know, Doom did his thing.
[126:19]
Jesse Michaels
But when you listen to early Kanye, like, his first track ever for Roc, a fella I think was Beanie Siegel and Jay this can't be Life on one of Beanie Siegel's random mixtapes. And you hear the drums and you're like, these are garbage. Like, these are not good drums.
[126:35]
Flying Lotus
Drums. Yeah.
[126:36]
Jesse Michaels
And then half the drums are like, impeach the president, you know, generic ass.
[126:41]
Flying Lotus
But you just gotta try sound for sound. Don't do like the whole kit. Don't be trying to play the whole kit. Just do like, just do some hi hats first. Play those in, put the high hats in. You know, you can even quantize them later. But just put the high hats in and then, you know, do the snare, do the kick.
[126:58]
Jesse Michaels
Okay.
[126:59]
Flying Lotus
But another thing for you in that case.
[127:03]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah.
[127:03]
Flying Lotus
Cause now you've put me on. Yeah. Is do your drums first and then try to form your sampling around the drums versus using the sample. Trust me.
[127:18]
Jesse Michaels
Okay.
[127:18]
Flying Lotus
Yeah. It's like I have trouble with that sometimes. Like, find. Cause finding the right pairing can be really. Can be really challenging.
[127:28]
Jesse Michaels
Yeah.
[127:28]
Flying Lotus
But like, if you set the drums first and you get a good groove with them drums, that then something else can happen than maybe you might think.
[127:38]
Jesse Michaels
I feel like you're more optimistic than me, but I will try.
[127:41]
Flying Lotus
Oh, man. You can do it. You can do it. You just got to have the time.
[127:45]
Jesse Michaels
Appreciate you, man.
[127:46]
Flying Lotus
Yeah. Yeah.
[127:46]
Jesse Michaels
All right.
[127:47]
Flying Lotus
Yeah. All right. We're actually done.
[127:49]
Jesse Michaels
Actually done. Quick heads up for you guys. American Alchemy merch just dropped. It's all super high quality, 100% cotton embroidered hats, clean designs. I wear the logo tee on Rogan. It's up now. Go to americanalchemymerch.com to check it out. Thanks for the support. It means a lot.
[128:25]
Flying Lotus
Sa.