← American Alchemy with Jesse Michels
American Alchemy with Jesse Michels
Meet The Scientist Who Studies Alien Implants in Human Bodies
01:36:05
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- [00:01]
A
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- [00:59]
B
Two small gray beings came into my room and woke me up and said, come outside. And I put on these steel toe boots I had by the bed and went outside with them and there was a UFO hovering at a very low altitude over the backyard. I woke up and I knew that I had an implant in my toe. The aliens had been there in the middle of the night. And I had one more on the side of my head too.
- [01:23]
A
Whoa.
- [01:24]
B
We found the object and we took it out. It looked like nothing that I had ever remembered move before.
- [01:30]
A
If you can just feel my hair right there.
- [01:33]
B
You see that?
- [01:34]
A
There's. Oh yeah, there's something in his ear.
- [01:38]
B
The magnet sticks to my ear.
- [01:41]
A
Whoa. Whoa. Some of my favorite interviews have been these guys. They have implants, you know, they're close encounters of the third kind type two abductions.
- [01:51]
B
I go in for the post operation meeting with the doctor and he said, I found something in your right nostril that was so hard I almost couldn't break through it.
- [02:01]
A
How many people do you think are walking around with alien implants inside of them?
- [02:05]
B
350,000 people. These people are way too powerful to fight and they're experts at mind control. They can make you do anything they want you to do willingly.
- [02:14]
A
The beings that implanted you think good or bad or. Hmm.
- [02:22]
B
Ignition sequence 5. How is this possible?
- [02:29]
A
Nothing too unusual about that.
- [02:32]
B
Their existence can no longer be denied.
- [02:44]
A
We've talked a bit about longevity and life extension on this show. Extending your telomeres, metabolic optimization, and the through Line is always the same. Most of what determines how long you live comes down to really big basic stuff, not these more exotic treatments. I think about that sometimes when I realize it's 10pm and I haven't eaten all day because I was deep in prep for the next episode, which is kind of the story of my life since I moved to Austin. Occasionally I'll be so deep in work that I'll forget to eat and then I end up demolishing whatever's closest at midnight. Guys, the solution is amazing. It's a game changer for anyone who's busy. Meals show up ready to go. You heat them up in two minutes and they're actually made with real food. Lean proteins, whole ingredients, no seed oils, no refined sugar. Over 100 options that rotate weekly. I've been doing it for a bit now, and it is embarrassingly simple. I'm not a great chef. I don't like overspending every day on delivery. I really don't know why I waited so long for this head to factor meals.com alchemy50off and use code alchemy50OFF. That's alchemy5.0OFF to get 50% off and free breakfast for a year. The offer is only valid for new Factor customers doing an auto renewing subscription purchase. Do yourself a favor now. Make healthier eating easy with factor. Steve Colburn. I am so grateful that you're here. This has been a long time coming. I was just saying offset, I've been trying to get in touch with you for the last two or three years. Maybe I've followed your work. Uh, it seems like in UFO world we seem stuck on the existence or non existence of lights in the sky.
- [04:31]
B
Right?
- [04:31]
A
And there's a whole kind of history of research, deep research from very credentialed people discussing kind of, you know, deeper threads, if you will, around close encounters of the third kind, abductions, implants often being found in these people's bodies. There's a legendary UFO researcher named Dr. Roger Lear who everybody likes to pay homage to. And I view you as kind of his living heir in many ways.
- [05:01]
B
Yeah, I guess that's about right these days. I mean, nobody else has taken up the, the research and he taught me everything he knows he knew. So I would very much like to continue the research when funding becomes available.
- [05:20]
A
It's crazy that funding should be completely available. This is like the most interesting stuff, you know. So let's just establish for the audience who is Dr. Roger Lear? He's known as this, you know, sort of Alien implant. Doctor who, what's his, what was his background? How did he get into this?
- [05:39]
B
Well, he was a podiatrist and he was always interested in UFOs. He was the most knowledgeable ufologist I've ever met. And he was at a UFO conference once and Daryl Sims tried to get him interested in alien implants. And he thought the subject was ridiculous at first. Then he finally said one of his friends convinced him to take another look at it. So he said to Darrell, well, you know, get some of these people down here to my office and we'll get him X rayed and take the object out and see what it is. And so that's how the research started. And he ended up taking out 17 objects from 17 different people over about a 20 year period. We found the object, the first one, and we took it out. It looked like nothing that I had ever removed before in a way of a foreign body. And believe me, I had removed all sorts of things, from even a hair to paper to metals of various kind and so on. Never saw anything like this. It was a T shaped affair that was wrapped up in a very tight biological tissue, which was this really strange color and texture. And then we took a scalpel and we wanted to see what was inside. That's the idea of the whole thing. And we were amazed to find that we couldn't cut through this biological tissue. It came back with absolutely no inflammatory response. Now that really makes you want to scratch your head because how do you get something into the human body and not have the body react to it? Well, that just doesn't happen. Maybe there's some weirded out explanation that I didn't understand. From one site, maybe two sites, but three sites from two different people, that's just a little too much to handle.
- [07:42]
A
And where was he based?
- [07:44]
B
I found out that Dr. Lear was working in Thousand Oaks when I was working in Camarillo, California, only a few miles away. And I had some a weird experience where I saw these giant raccoons in my backyard. And when I was at the house alone one night and I fed the animals and observed them for some time and there were about between 75 and 100 pounds, I'd estimate. I didn't even know raccoons got that big. And evidently there were scout animals for the aliens because I went to bed and Woke up about 8 o' clock the next morning and had bad stinging pain in my toe. And I had reason to believe it was some kind of an implant. And so I went to see Dr. Lear and I don't think he believed me at first, but he gave me a prescription to get the toe X rayed, and I knew we were going to see something on the X ray, but when I did, that changed my life forever. It looked like a bent piece of wire on the X ray, and I didn't remember getting any shrapnel in there or anything like that. So it was quite an experience. Then he got funding from Jaime Masson to remove it a few months later, and he didn't have anybody to analyze it. So where I was working at the time, I had access to a lot of analytical equipment. So I analyzed it for him, and it turned out to be a sophisticated nanotechnological device. Have you read my paper on that implant?
- [09:22]
A
I have not. Let's, let's hear about it.
- [09:25]
B
Well, turned out to have very skewed isotopic ratios and several elements that were in the metallic core. And to the extent that it looked like it probably came from another part of the galaxy, not just another planet.
- [09:39]
A
And how can you know that from the isotope ratios?
- [09:43]
B
Well, because the isotope ratios are characteristic of elements from different places. And if they're off by more than a percent or so, that means it's from, it's not from, from Earth. These were off by up to like 30%.
- [10:02]
A
What were the elements and what were the isotopes?
- [10:05]
B
The first one, I think it was boron. Boron and copper. And there were. There were similar results from other influence I analyzed. And anyway, the structure of the device was a gray, hard to cut membrane. And below that, a layer of material that was similar to bone, like a biological hard part, like bone or mother of pearl. Then below that, a metallic core with. Made of meteoric iron with carbon nanotubes inside the metal and nerve cells connected to the device. The pain in my toe got worse over a period of days and led to a lot of electric shock type pain whenever I put any weight on the toe. And I think that was the nerve cells growing in the device. These devices also produce no physiological reaction in the body, and that's unheard of. Foreign objects always produce a physiological response.
- [11:13]
A
So there' immune response.
- [11:14]
B
No immune response. Right.
- [11:16]
A
Really interesting. And could these elements and isotopes theoretically have been produced in some sort of centrifuge?
- [11:26]
B
You could, but in order to produce those exact ratios, it would probably cost millions of dollars and be very difficult to do.
- [11:33]
A
So the question is why?
- [11:35]
B
Why would anybody do that?
- [11:36]
A
Why would anybody do that?
- [11:37]
B
Yeah.
- [11:38]
A
Do you remember undergoing some sort of alien abduction experience prior to that?
- [11:44]
B
I didn't remember it consciously, but I underwent regressive hypnosis and remembered aliens putting in the device. Yeah.
- [11:51]
A
What was that experience like?
- [11:54]
B
Well, they two gray, small gray beings came into my room and woke me up and said come outside. And I put on these steel toe boots I had by the bed and went outside with them. And there was a UFO hovering at a very low altitude over the backyard, over this avocado tree I had at the Fillmore Morehouse. And they indicated that I should stand below the center of the craft and took me up with a tractor beam. Star Trek got it right by the way. It's like a blue or greenish beam that lifts things, a gravity beam. And the center of the craft, it was about 50ft in diameter, similar to Lazarus sport model, if you're familiar with that.
- [12:41]
A
Oh yeah.
- [12:42]
B
And the center of the device or craft was an airlock that had human and alien spacesuits available. And there were four doors leading to the four quadrants of the craft. Then there was a habitation ring around the outside and a pilot station with two pilots and appeared to be thought controlled. They had their hands in a panel on top of a panel and screens where there were observing different things. And they took me around to the station at 90 degrees to the pilot station and there was a couch that slid out of the wall and they indicated, this guy indicated me for me to lie down and it was a taller gray and he took out a device that looked like a black plastic handle with a piece of quarter inch stainless steel tubing on it and touched it to my toe and pushed a button and that must have put the implant in. And there were fiber optics going down the, the center of this piece of tubing. And I think that's what activates the device, EV light. And I think that's what accounts for these red marks you see on experiencers too. I think they're mini sunburns from EV light.
- [14:12]
A
Interesting. And so how long were you up there for?
- [14:16]
B
About an hour. They waited for a long time for orders I think before actually putting in the device because I think because they knew it'd start an investigation and they weren't sure they wanted that because a bunch of weird stuff had been happening previously. And where were you living at the time? Fillmore, California.
- [14:34]
A
Okay, Fillmore. And was this during at night or.
- [14:38]
B
Yeah, it was a night. About three in the morning. They usually come about two or three in the morning. And so finally after about being up for about 45 minutes, I go, guys, you know, I'm Tired. If you. If you're not going to do anything, then let me go back to bed. And so they. They put the device in at that point, and that didn't take very long once they decided to make up their minds.
- [15:01]
A
Are you communicating telepathically with them?
- [15:03]
B
Yes, telepathically.
- [15:04]
A
Okay. Do you see any symbols around the craft?
- [15:09]
B
Yeah, there were some symbols that looked like hieroglyphics labeling the instruments on the pilot station and on some of the walls, they had a. I believe they had a vector symbol, blue vector symbol on the wall, a pretty big symbol, and it had two dots circles below it. And their uniforms are usually cobalt blue and have either a snake with a snake over a triangle or three orange circles arranged in an equilateral triangle. And I'm led to believe that the three orange circles arranged in an equilateral triangle, it's the symbol of the Gray Alliance. The Grays are not one species. There are like several, I believe, seven different species of similar aliens that are bound by treaty and come within. Come to us from planets within 100 light years of here.
- [16:14]
A
How are you getting that?
- [16:16]
B
I believe they told me.
- [16:17]
A
Oh, they told you that? And what else did they tell you?
- [16:23]
B
A lot of stuff about physics and propulsion, most of which I can't remember consciously.
- [16:28]
A
Do you remember anything about the physics and propulsion?
- [16:31]
B
Yeah, they use a combination of several methods to create anti gravity, and they definitely have anti gravity drives. And they use, like three different methods to create anti gravity.
- [16:43]
A
Do you remember the methods?
- [16:44]
B
Yeah. One is a home polar generator. If you take a disk, the basic homeopolar generator is a disk metallic disk rotating in a perpendicular magnetic field, and it creates a voltage between the center and the outside of the disk. And the aliens use a version of that to create most of their lift, where they circulate molten metal around the outside of the craft that's magnetic. From analyzing samples of the material that were dropped, I think it's usually a mixture of iron and silicon. The silicon is probably in there, lower the melting point. And there's a strong magnetic field between the top and bottom of the craft. That's why the. That's why equipment like car electrical systems goes out when a UFO is near because of the very strong magnetic field. And they also use a method called the bifield brown effect to generate lift, where you rapidly charge a capacitor and there's a thrust in the direction of the positive pole. And a lot of these things, the entire craft is a capacitor between the top and bottom. The top and bottom of the craft are like plates of a capacitor.
- [18:12]
A
So they told you they used the Bifield Brown effect, These aliens.
- [18:15]
B
Yeah.
- [18:16]
A
That's really interesting.
- [18:17]
B
And according to Bob Lazar, I don't remember them telling me this, but according to Bob Lazar, they also use element 115 sometimes to amplify the. The gravitational effect.
- [18:30]
A
Yeah, yeah. That's amazing. I'm obsessed with Townsend Brown, so that gets me excited. The fact that there's some corroboration from an experiencer that maybe that is how the craft actually works. Many institutions and people have tried to either downplay or falsify Brown's experiments. For example, in 1990, the Air Force tested a Byfield Brown experiment in a vacuum, but they only used 19 kilovolts instead of the megavoltage Brown was using. But in 1956, Jacques Cornillon, a French Air Force officer and technical representative for one of France's largest aircraft companies, SUD west, facilitated Brown's experiments in a vacuum in the Montgolfier facility in Paris.
- [19:15]
B
The test was very, very, very tricky. It was sensitive to so. So many things. In fact, finally it worked. So that was a positive result.
- [19:28]
A
Did they say anything else? So they're giving you all this insight into the, into the physics.
- [19:33]
B
They talked about time travel quite a bit and the physics of that.
- [19:37]
A
What did they say?
- [19:38]
B
They said that, that they have time travel. They don't like to use it very much because. And especially don't like to do long jumps because you could, if you travel back in time too far, you could get back, you get on a different timeline and it would be difficult to get to your own. That's the main reason there's the many worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics is generally correct. Except that minor decisions, I'm not sure how the universe decides what's a minor decision and what's a major one. But minor decisions in quantum mechanics, where something happens on a subatomic scale, most of those just collapse on themselves and don't become a separate timeline, but some do.
- [20:25]
A
So this is this idea that the wave function doesn't actually collapse. It sort of infinitely branches. But you're saying that in certain cases it's a combination.
- [20:33]
B
Some, some, most of them collapse, but some of them continue on and become a different timeline.
- [20:37]
A
Makes rough sense. That's interesting.
- [20:39]
B
Yeah. And the ones that do continue on are as real as this one. And if you go back too far and then try to go forward again, there's a chance you might end up on one of those branch points.
- [20:52]
A
Yeah.
- [20:53]
B
When it crossed one of the branch points and end up on a different timeline.
- [20:56]
A
Did they connect the, you know, quote unquote anti gravity with the time travel? Because Byfield Brown effect and Townsend Brown himself was very interested in time travel because of the relationship between gravity and time and general relativity.
- [21:09]
B
Well, the way they move faster than light is that they, they use the anti gravity drive to open up a wormhole. And I'm not sure how they. They choose where the other opening of the wormhole is, but they, they can do that somehow, and then they'll go through it and go a few million kilometers before the wormhole collapses. Wormholes are unstable, and they can do the same thing with time. They just open up a wormhole in a different time or the. The opening is in a different time that they want to visit. And the other reason they don't like to use time travel too much is because it's difficult to judge exactly when you're going to come out to the second like they like to do.
- [21:47]
A
Yeah, well, that seems to be the case. And you have, like, Travis Walton dropped off near where he was picked up, but not. It's usually not like, very precise and there's like, sort of missing time involved.
- [21:59]
B
Yeah, yeah. And doctor, in Travis Walton's case, Dr. Learn thinks he or thought he was dead and they brought him back to life.
- [22:06]
A
Whoa. Why does Roger Lear think that?
- [22:09]
B
Because
- [22:12]
A
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- [23:40]
B
Travis was thrown like 20ft by either a weapon or getting a shock from the electric field around the craft. And he wasn't moving when he was flying through the air or when he landed on the ground. And all the people in his logging crew thought he was dead.
- [23:57]
A
That is definitely true. Did any of these beings tell you why they were doing what they were doing to you? Did they give you any sort of sense as to why they would implant your toe of all places?
- [24:11]
B
That it was a medical monitoring device? Is my understanding to or monitor things like blood sugar and body temperature and things like that?
- [24:19]
A
Why, why you. Is it just like this thing that they, it's like if we go to the zoo, we tag the animals sort of thing or what do you, what do you think?
- [24:26]
B
It's kind of like that, except that it's. They do this to, to only bloodlines that they're interested in and they have an M.O. where they, they genetically, they, they abduct pregnant women from bloodlines are interested in and genetically modify the fetus.
- [24:44]
A
What determines which bloodlines they might be interested in?
- [24:48]
B
I'm not sure that would be a closely guarded secret on their side. But mainly they're interested in, in Germanic, Celtic and Native American people. There are exceptions, but they're looking for some sort of genetic combination that those particular races have in more abundance.
- [25:07]
A
Fascinating. Okay, so you have this. Anything. Anything else by the way? I always, I feel like with experiences I'm always like damn, I should have asked that one more thing about like what the, what the being said. Was there anything else you can recall.
- [25:24]
B
Them telling me?
- [25:25]
A
Yeah, anything they told you?
- [25:27]
B
Well, the part about them being an alliance of seven different races coming from planets within 100 light years of year. I remember that pretty distinctly. Oh, and they also told me that the Earth is a very important planet to a lot of races and that planets that have some life are pretty common, but planets that are teeming with life like this are not common at all. He said there's only four or five like it in the galaxy and so they want to preserve life on the planet and they are worried we're going to screw it up.
- [26:07]
A
Yeah, that seems to be a common theme among experiencers as far as what gets relayed.
- [26:12]
B
Oh, and they told me that there's pyramids all over the galaxy. They're evidently power sources and sources of healing rather than tombs.
- [26:23]
A
You know, it's funny you say this. I feel like 20 years ago in conventional archaeological circles, they would have said that that's totally quacky. And now you have people like Christopher Dunn, who's, you know, I don't know if you're familiar with this guy. He's like a former aerospace guy coming out saying, you know, that it looks like the pyramid is some sort of power plant. And now we actually have synthetic aperture radar scans underneath the pyramids that. Where it looks like there might be these sort of coiling columns, these. These hollow tubes that go down possibly a kilometer deep. So you have increasing speculation. We know that there have never been any tombs found in these structures. And we were just talking earlier that below Dandira, you actually have hieroglyphics that translate to Stargate. The Egyptians talk about stargates.
- [27:10]
B
Do they? Dude, go to. Where is it?
- [27:14]
A
Dendera. There's actually a couple places.
- [27:16]
B
The literal translation, you can read it on the walls. I always show people, when we go, there it is. There are two or three depictions of Stargates. That is the literal translation for it.
- [27:26]
A
We know there are actually little chambers where a human could probably lie in. And, you know, some of these, I think in the Great Pyramid.
- [27:34]
B
Yeah, that sarcophagus, they called it, in the queen's chamber is probably a healing device.
- [27:41]
A
Yeah.
- [27:42]
B
I have a theory where gravity is not a. A pulling force, but a pushing force. It's. If you're accelerating through space, you experience inertia. If space is accelerating towards you, you experience gravity. And zero point energy is turned into real energy in the cores of planets and stars. And that creates a partial vacuum in the ether. That causes the ether to accelerate towards that gravitating body, and that creates gravity.
- [28:14]
A
So you. I mean, this is. There's so many different threads. I want to. Yeah, it's like the, you know, the. The movie Stargate, literally, with Kurt Russell, you know, the Air Force actually consulted on that.
- [28:26]
B
Yeah.
- [28:27]
A
And it's like it's this portal or something that it would explain the astronomical alignment. The idea that all the ancient civilizations thought that the souls actually, the soul moved through Orion's belt, which it seems, you know, aligned with. But there are some interesting questions I feel like I have to press on that arise from what you just said. The ether, they say, was disproved in the 1890s with the Michelson Morley experiment.
- [28:50]
B
It wasn't disproved Even Einstein said in his later lectures that there could be an ether, although it would have to be multidimensional and have strange properties. Well, and that's the case. I mean, the ether, I believe they told me this too. But other people have come up with this theory that the ether is composed of tiny particles that are on the order of the Planck mass and the Planck dimensions. They're like 10 to the 20 times smaller than an atomic nucleus and they have a magnetic and electric dipole moment and interact with each other much more strongly than they interact with ordinary matter. And matter going through it without accelerating does not experience a force because it acts like it's super fluid. But when it's accelerating, there's an electromagnetic drag force that they call the people that people that believe in this theory called the Rindler flux, which causes inertia. And. You can actually derive Newton's second law by assuming a spatial structure of that nature.
- [30:01]
A
Interesting.
- [30:02]
B
Yeah.
- [30:02]
A
Whoa. Who's like developed this theory?
- [30:07]
B
Several physicists. I don't recall their names offbound, but.
- [30:11]
A
Interesting.
- [30:11]
B
I can look it up for you.
- [30:12]
A
Yeah, yeah, I'd love to. Yeah. No, you're right that later Einstein said general relativity is not actually incompatible with the ether.
- [30:20]
B
Right.
- [30:20]
A
So that isn't important. And then I would also say about the Michelson Morley experiment, you know, the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.
- [30:27]
B
Yeah.
- [30:27]
A
And so we, we just don't know, you know, But I do think, yeah, that's this kind of hotly debated, contested thing. So it's a very interesting theory.
- [30:35]
B
But in the Michael Michelson Morley experiment, the ether is probably being dragged by the instrument itself. That might account for the of no observable ether movement. But there was another guy named Milliken, I believe his name was, that actually did come up with some positive results for motion through the ether.
- [30:57]
A
That's interesting. I didn't know that about Rob. Robert Milliken was at Caltech and Townsend Brown actually studied under him. And then they kind of got into it because Milliken didn't really believe in Brown's stuff.
- [31:09]
B
Stuff.
- [31:09]
A
Ironically, Brown believed what you said, which is that gravity is more of a push than a pull. And so you're saying because Milliken did a lot of the experimental proving of the Einstein's photoelectric effect from 1905, but I didn't know that he had something to do with the ether and detecting the ether. That's fascinating.
- [31:26]
B
Yeah, yeah, he said he detected it and he was a pretty high powered physicist.
- [31:31]
A
Really?
- [31:32]
B
Yeah.
- [31:32]
A
Oh, wow.
- [31:33]
B
He didn't detect it directly, but he detected Earth's motion through the Ether by an experiment on Mount Wilson, I believe it was.
- [31:40]
A
Wow. Fascinating. Well, I have to look into that. You know, it's interesting we, we take so many things for granted that we've never detected, like dark matter and the. But the Ether is like completely like, we're not allowed to talk about it. It's like a dirty word or something.
- [31:53]
B
Yeah, I don't, I don't think I believe in dark matter. After 50 years of experimentation, there's no evidence for it at all, so. And you don't, you don't really even need dark matter to explain the results. The reason they, they postulated dark matter in the first place is because the. Of the motion of the galaxies, they, they behave as though there's either either gravity is acting as an inverse linear force at those distances, or there's a halo of massive matter above and below the galaxy. Well, the postulating that gravity is an inverse linear force at those distances is actually a simpler explanation than postulating some unknown form of matter.
- [32:37]
A
Yeah, I think you're right, because dark. I would bet against dark matter and dark energy. The dark energy is not one of the four fundamental forces. It's this sort of, you know, just.
- [32:46]
B
I think dark energy is a zero point energy. That's what's causing the Earth or the universe to expand more rapidly rather than it's supposed to be slowing down, according to Einstein. But dark energy, AKA zero point energy, is causing the expansion to accelerate.
- [33:03]
A
It's fascinating. Quantum vacuum fluctuations.
- [33:06]
B
Right?
- [33:06]
A
Yeah. I mean, okay, we could have a whole other discussion on physics. I want to stick with the. So you, you experience this kind of profound thing, you end up with this, you know, implant in your toe. So you don't know what's happened at that point because you haven't gotten a hypnotic regression is that point.
- [33:23]
B
Yeah, I didn't know. I didn't remember what happened. I just. I woke up and I knew that I had had an implant in my toe. The aliens had been there in the middle of the night and I had had one. One more on the side of my head too.
- [33:36]
A
Really?
- [33:37]
B
You had my, my head kind of hurt right there.
- [33:39]
A
Whoa.
- [33:40]
B
And that shows up on a stud finder. Okay.
- [33:43]
A
Wow. And then you get in touch with Roger Lear.
- [33:46]
B
Yeah.
- [33:47]
A
And you email him.
- [33:49]
B
I just went to his office.
- [33:50]
A
Okay. He just showed up.
- [33:51]
B
I just made an appointment and, and went over there and. And told him I had a possible foreign object in my toe. And in the middle of the appointment. I told him that it was. It was possible alien implant or an abduction related. Excuse me. I don't think he believed me at first, but he gave me a prescription to get it X rayed and I, He. He said to give a copy of the film to the patient. And I definitely saw something on the X ray. And that was wild.
- [34:27]
A
That is extremely wild. What did it look like?
- [34:30]
B
Like, I tell people too, that there's a heck of a difference between strongly suspecting that something like this is going on with you, which I had for years, and knowing for sure, and proof like that, you know for sure.
- [34:43]
A
Yeah.
- [34:44]
B
What it looked like, it looked like a piece of bent piece of wire on. On the X ray. And it was. It was larger in real life when we took it out than it looked on the X ray.
- [34:56]
A
Wild. Okay, so you see this X ray and. And then do you have a hypnotic regression and you remember the full experience with these alien beings?
- [35:05]
B
Yeah, pretty much, yeah.
- [35:06]
A
And as Roger Lear at that point, kind of bought into the extraterrestrial or other entity, non human hypothesis, what does he think?
- [35:14]
B
He was excited. He wanted to come over and check out my house. And we found all kinds of anomalies, anomalous magnetic fields. Leaves and the trunk of the avocado tree had become magnetized. And in the kitchen, stainless steel knives had become magnetized. Dust and the wood of the cabinets and all kinds of stuff. Wood seems to be very susceptible to magnetization by alien equipment.
- [35:39]
A
Interesting. I think it's because normally it wouldn't be right.
- [35:42]
B
Yeah, it's either a magnetic monopole or magnetic fields beyond a certain strength leave a residue. Magnetic monopoles make a certain amount of sense. It would be a. It would be ether that had a magnetic charge to it that would be absorbed into the material and it seems to decay away over a period of several weeks.
- [36:01]
A
And how many implants did Roger Lear remove?
- [36:06]
B
He removed a total of, I believe, 17. From 17 different people. Wow.
- [36:10]
A
And how many have you removed?
- [36:12]
B
I. I haven't removed any. I don't have a license to operate on.
- [36:16]
A
Okay, but you sort of look into this?
- [36:18]
B
I attend. I attended the last three removal surgeries, including my own.
- [36:22]
A
Okay.
- [36:22]
B
Yeah.
- [36:23]
A
And how many have you seen, like, firsthand?
- [36:26]
B
I've seen probably six or seven.
- [36:28]
A
Wow.
- [36:29]
B
Wow.
- [36:29]
A
And does any of part of you, or does any part of, you know, from your conversations with Roger Lear think that this could have been human tech?
- [36:41]
B
No, most of them did not look like human tech at all to us. And there was reason to believe that the Materials came from not only from space, but from other part of our galaxy. But we did find, or he did find one or two that looked like human tech that looked like just, just standard microchips.
- [36:59]
A
Whoa. And so. So such a crazy territory to kind of operate in or think about. So you think there are maybe a couple that represent. I mean, what would those microchips have come.
- [37:11]
B
Well, the government's experimenting with implants too, but they're, they're much less sophisticated than the ones the aliens use. Right. And they're much bigger.
- [37:18]
A
Yeah.
- [37:18]
B
And.
- [37:19]
A
And that would make sense. I mean, the. I mean, yeah, the government has had, like, sort of mind control programs.
- [37:24]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [37:25]
A
You know, MK Ultra sort of stuff. Stuff. And they probably have used chips and so. But these things are. They have. So they have isotope ratios that don't normally occur on Earth that would cost millions of dollars to create an ecentrifuge. Any other sort of abnormalities or anomalies?
- [37:43]
B
Well, I noticed that in three of the implants that had the isotopic abnormalities, the heavier isotopes in those elements were overrepresented. I talked to people who really did analyze the stuff from the real deal stuff, and it's super weird. It's like heavy element, you know, europium, californium stuff. It's like in these atomic arrangements that
- [38:07]
A
make like, no sense.
- [38:09]
B
You know, this is through X ray diffraction where they can image the shadows of the atomic pairs and stuff.
- [38:14]
A
And it's like, why is all these
- [38:16]
B
crazy heavy elements in this, like, weird
- [38:20]
A
ceramic metal hull structure?
- [38:24]
B
And it doesn't. We don't understand the emergence metamaterial property. So it was either, it's either. Either they come from closer to the center of the galaxy where there's heavier supernova. And all these heavy elements are created in supernova explosions where there's a massive cascade of neutrons in one part of the explosion. And rapid neutron capture creates these elements heavier than iron. And so it's either that or the elements had been exposed to a massive quantity of neutrons. Either way, it's very, very strange. And most likely way beyond human technology.
- [39:03]
A
Yeah. And a lot of neutrons would be outside the Van Allen radiation belt or something. You know, a lot of.
- [39:08]
B
Or in a reactor or a zero point energy energy generator also.
- [39:14]
A
Then the, the no immune reaction. It's like you think of Elon Musk as the tip of the spear with technology. And, you know, he had all these issues with the, you know, electrode implants in people's brains where there would be immune Reactions this day, I believe. Nolan Arbaugh, the first patient, I think might need some, like, tweaking after, like, the first thing worked because of this sort of immune reaction issue.
- [39:37]
B
Oh, yeah. Dr. Lehr told me that any foreign object in the body produces an unimmune reaction. Silicone produces the least immune reaction of all substances known. But even that produces a fair amount, as a lot of women that got silicone breast implants could testify to. But these produce none whatsoever. It's just very beyond strange.
- [40:03]
A
Do you notice commonalities in behavioral patterns changing from some of these patients?
- [40:12]
B
I think there are some changes, but they're hard to notice. I know that when I had my toe implant, it was very subtle, but it was like there was some sort of a. Of a governor put in my thoughts or. And I felt more free once it was removed. It's, it's. But it was very subtle.
- [40:32]
A
Whoa.
- [40:33]
B
And people were telling me that I, I didn't look well, that I had a gray complexion or something when I had the implant.
- [40:39]
A
Really?
- [40:39]
B
Yeah.
- [40:40]
A
So it affected you in sort of a negative way?
- [40:42]
B
Apparently. Yeah.
- [40:43]
A
Why do you think, ah, it's so strange? I. Ideally, you know, the alien tech or whatever would, you know, be so. So, you know, if it's not creating an immune reaction, it wouldn't, you know, suppress your thoughts in any sort of negative way.
- [40:55]
B
Oh, maybe. Maybe what they told me about it being a monitoring device with just a cover story. Maybe they were trying to produce some changes or something. It's fascinating, but they, they definitely were hesitant to put it in because they know it'd start an investigation. And I, I suspected that. I was an experiencer for a year that had missing time experiences and had no other way to account for them. But it's kind of easier to be easy to be in denial if you don't have any real concrete proof.
- [41:27]
A
It's a wild conversation for me because you seem like a very smart guy. And then a lot of these things are just so, so out there.
- [41:35]
B
I mean, I wouldn't even entertain. I'm a scientist. I wouldn't even entertain a lot of this stuff if I didn't have proof.
- [41:40]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's. You're backing up all your claims, so it's. It's really amazing. Dr. Roger Lear, did you find him to be. He, you know, fully kind of bought into the kind of non human hypothesis is the origin.
- [41:55]
B
He was fully, fully bought into the extraterrestrial hypothesis.
- [42:00]
A
And he said it was 17 or 18 implants that he removed.
- [42:04]
B
17 I believe, yeah, 17.
- [42:06]
A
And he had no background in this, he was just a podiatrist.
- [42:11]
B
And yeah, he thought it was ridiculous at first too.
- [42:13]
A
But did he stumble upon a per. Like there was one of his patients or something and he pulled it out.
- [42:19]
B
He went to, he went to a convention, I think the UFO Congress. And he met Daryl Sims there who was the original guy on the implants. And he tried to convince Dr. Lear that it was worth looking into. And Dr. Lear said, Ah, you're full of, you're full of it and everything. And a friend, another friend of Dr. Lehre's convinced him to go take another look and he went back and told Sims that, that, you know, if you can get some patients out here that have these things, I'll X ray them and take the object out if it's there and we'll find out what it is.
- [42:53]
A
Did Lear ever try to write an academic paper on any of this stuff?
- [42:57]
B
Yeah, he and I tried to write a paper and we tried to publish it in the Journal of Scientific Exploration. And first they said they were excited to have it. Then I think somebody got to them and they said that it was ridiculous, they didn't want to publish it. And we weren't even saying it was alien, we just said it was an unknown object recovered from somebody's life. Big. And they, they really gave us a hard time about it and I, I'm pretty sure that somebody told him not to publish it.
- [43:30]
A
That's so crazy. It's like. Yeah, because it's funny, you can go on chat GPT and they say Roger Lear has no academically, you know, peer reviewed papers or whatever. It's like you tried, you just. We did try and it's, it's funny, I think you always have to sanitize the results and just say no, we found something anomalous, we're not even jumping to conclusions. But even then sometimes there's this sort of antibody rejection of a lot of these findings. There's a friend of mine, Beatrice Viarreal, she's an astronomer from Stockholm University and she's a PhD out there and she basically from the Palomar Observatory, which was one of the most prominent observatories in use in the 40s and 50s. She noticed all sorts of these, what look like essentially UFO like objects, these, these light reflecting objects that look like kind of mirrors in orbit. In orbit.
- [44:28]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [44:29]
A
And geo.
- [44:29]
B
Yeah, they, they, they recruited Clyde Tombaugh, the discoverer of Pluto, to investigate those too.
- [44:35]
A
That's fascinating. So there's a history of looking into these geosynchronous objects that seem to exist in the, the, the, the tens of thousands.
- [44:45]
B
And he wrote, he, Tom Barr wrote an article saying that Earth had some smaller moons orbiting at about 500 miles up. And I know from my own experiences that that gray motherships orbited about that altitude. Then they launched the smaller UFOs that actually go out and sortie to abduct people and such.
- [45:06]
A
So fascinating because the other, the other thing is, you know, I go back and forth on the moon landing stuff where if I'm debating with the skeptic on the moon landing, it's like I'm extremely open to us having actually landed on the moon, but something's off about the whole story. Something is off.
- [45:26]
B
Well, they're concealing a lot. There's a lot up there they don't want people to see.
- [45:29]
A
So it's like maybe they saw something along the way.
- [45:33]
B
And interesting that you should mention the moon stuff. I found out that Apollo 13 may not have failed by a mechanical problem, may have been zapped by the aliens because they may have had a nuclear warhead on board.
- [45:47]
A
What?
- [45:48]
B
Yeah.
- [45:48]
A
How did you find that out?
- [45:50]
B
Well, I can't prove it, but it was the next logical step in their seismic program where Apollo 11 put a seismograph on the moon and so did Apollo 12.
- [46:01]
A
And it rang like a bell.
- [46:02]
B
On Apollo 12, they crashed the ascent stage of the lunar module into the moon and it rang like a bell for hours. Mars. Then on Apollo 13, when they were approaching the moon, they crashed the third stage of the Saturn V into the moon and made a bigger bang and rang like a bell for even longer. And so if Apollo 13 had landed on the moon, they would have had three seismographs and would have been able to probably map the interior of the moon a little bit with the seismic waves that would be generated by another event. And, and the next logical step would have been to put a remote detonated small nuclear device on the moon and detonate it after the astronauts leave.
- [46:43]
A
Jesus. So, but you're just hypothesizing that you have no evidence that.
- [46:48]
B
I have no real evidence. But one thing that made me really suspicious that this might be true is that I remember when I was a kid following this mission and when the lunar module was coming back to Earth, the Atomic Energy Commission was just going ape over this and they wanted the lunar module put on a trajectory that would put it into a deep ocean trench. And their level of concern was they said it was because it had A radioisotope thermoelectric generator on board. But their level of concern was a lot more consistent with it being a warhead.
- [47:22]
A
Whoa, that's fascinating. So they were that freaked out about.
- [47:27]
B
Even though it might endanger the astronauts lives to do that. They wanted that thing crashed into a deep ocean. Ocean trench. And they've had RTGs on spacecraft before that have reentered that they weren't that concerned about.
- [47:40]
A
It's really interesting. Yeah, it's funny, you know, there's actually an Air Force project that's documented called Project A119 and it was literally to nuke the moon as a show of force against the Soviets. And Carl Sagan actually had a temporary clearance.
- [47:53]
B
Yeah, I remember that.
- [47:54]
A
It's a look to look into doing this. So we know that in the late 50s, 50s obviously before the Saturn and Apollo projects, that this was being considered. So who knows? I mean, you might be right, man. It's really interesting.
- [48:07]
B
Well, I know that if there were no aliens on the moon or anything else like that to worry about, I think the gray zone, the moon, by the way. And they told us not to come back without permission anyway. And that's.
- [48:19]
A
You think they said don't come back without permission?
- [48:21]
B
Well, Armstrong was overheard at a party saying that.
- [48:25]
A
Really? What party?
- [48:27]
B
Some party in Washington D.C. with big wigs. And several people said that. That he said that but.
- [48:31]
A
And he said that the Grays said that's hearsay. But the Grays said don't come back. Yeah, until we give you permission.
- [48:38]
B
Something with that effect.
- [48:39]
A
Any other details there?
- [48:44]
B
Well, some people at na, some whistleblowers at NASA said that, that he was on a private channel after landing on the moon and said that, that a spacecraft landed on the moon right after they did, a couple miles away. And we're watching them and it was probably the same one that they said they saw following them. The whole Apollo 11 crew said a few years ago on television that there was some object following him to the moon, that they thought it was the third stage of their booster at first. But NASA confirmed that, that it, that the booster was like 700 miles away and this object was maybe only about five or ten miles from them.
- [49:28]
A
Jesus Christ. And you have, you definitely have documented audio from the Gemini missions of them freaking. And then there's a. Literally like they're freaking out about UFOs, there's an outage, you know, showing some sort of electromagnetic anomaly present. And then in the, they have this book, actually the Simpkinson textbook, that shout out to my buddy Chris Ramsey from the Great Show Area 52. He made me aware of this book where this UFO is like airbrushed into the photo for the Gemini 11 mission where it's this like kind of tongue in cheek joke if you're, you know, this is official. NASA archivist airbrushed this ufo, which looks like the best UFO photo ever.
- [50:09]
B
Well, the astronauts used to admit to it long ago before the security was that tight. And, and I think they were seeing these things almost every mission in the early days.
- [50:22]
A
So Wild. How many people do you think are walking around with alien implants inside of them?
- [50:27]
B
Well, the people that they implant, they, they've. They've abducted about 3% of the American population, according to Dodger. I think that's about right. It's between probably between 3 and 5% to take samples.
- [50:38]
A
What is he basing that off of? Is this like sort of a census style, like.
- [50:43]
B
Yeah, his own research. His own research and extrapolation.
- [50:46]
A
Okay, okay.
- [50:47]
B
And based on what I have seen, most what I call Class 2 experiencers that are actually at the next level, part of the alien program have implants, but the first class, where they just take samples from, do not generally. And about, I would say very roughly about one in a thousand people are Class 2 experiencers in this country. And it might be similar worldwide. I'm not sure. So if that's the case, then say there's 350 million people in the U.S. that'd be about 350,000 people.
- [51:27]
A
It's a lot of people walking around with implants. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. It's like 10 to 15 million for experiencers overall. And then class two experiencers who get the implants around a few hundred thousand.
- [51:37]
B
And a standard procedure for them to put a brain implant into Class 2 experiencers that enables them to access your sensory information to see what you're seeing and hear what you're hearing and probably hear what you're thinking in real time.
- [51:52]
A
So you're like an. Almost an avatar or something. Like they're. You're this perceptual like drone for them or something.
- [51:59]
B
It turns you into a walking bug and it connects you to the gray hive mind. They told me that too. And all, all individuals in their society are connected to a hive mind, kind of like the Borg on Star Trek. But they have a little bit more individuality than that. That and every experience they have is recorded and. They. So if, if all these people are implanted, then they presumably only put the brain implants into people that they can get some good information from. So being that that's the case, they probably know everything that's going on.
- [52:37]
A
And it's like we have Eric Mitchell here, who we did an amazing show with yesterday, and he's what you might call kind of a super experiencer. You guys are friends, you found a few different implants and Eric, is that right?
- [52:54]
B
I don't remember what the results were offhand. My records got stolen recently. But I'd like to do the exam again. But, yeah, I saw some indications of implants in Eric, and we found some dyes on them recently. Alien dyes. We haven't talked about that yet.
- [53:10]
A
So before we get to the dyes, the implants, what are we calling indicators of implants?
- [53:17]
B
Well, I have a protocol that is mostly Dr. Lehr's protocol that he turned me onto. And you first inspect the patient with a stud finder, a small metal detector that detects conductive objects into the skin. And concentrate on any areas of concern first, where they think they might have an implant from, anything they remember or any symptoms they might have had. And if you record the areas where you get stud finder hits, then go over the person with a gauss meter, a sensitive magnetometer. And if you get. If you get an area that has a stud finder and a gauss meter hit, that's almost certainly an implant because these implants almost always have magnetic fields.
- [54:09]
A
So have you had a stud finder and magnetometer? You know, this gauss finder hit for
- [54:16]
B
Eric, I think we had. I think we had two recall.
- [54:19]
A
Eric, do you remember where exactly they detected one of these implants?
- [54:25]
B
Back of my neck, my arm.
- [54:28]
A
And Dr. Lear, he thought maybe their
- [54:31]
B
wife might be one in my knee.
- [54:33]
A
Me.
- [54:34]
B
It was like a weak signal. So he sends me a 100 pound Neo Imium magnet, which I should have been very careful. Opening that box a little more careful,
- [54:45]
A
like it was like a cartoon.
- [54:47]
B
There was probably dangerous. Yeah, it was dangerous. But he wanted me to hold it to my name maybe 10 minutes a
- [54:54]
A
day, you know, watching TV or something
- [54:56]
B
like that, put it back in the
- [54:58]
A
bubble wrap, make sure it's safe, and
- [55:00]
B
then pull it back out the next
- [55:01]
A
night and keep doing that.
- [55:02]
B
That.
- [55:03]
A
And he didn't think that it would
- [55:05]
B
pull
- [55:07]
A
it to the surface.
- [55:08]
B
He.
- [55:08]
A
He theorized that it would create, like an eddy bubble, an eddy effect to
- [55:12]
B
kind of loosen it from the tissue and bring it, you know, to the
- [55:15]
A
surface, which actually worked. And so do you have any, like, incisions or marks or, like, you know, any sort of Raised skin where either of these implants are?
- [55:25]
B
No.
- [55:26]
A
Okay. Have you removed anything then? No.
- [55:28]
B
Okay.
- [55:29]
A
No.
- [55:29]
B
Two weeks before I was supposed to meet with Dr. Roger there in Eureka Springs, Arkansas, he unfortunately passed away. Yeah, the. The portals of entry with these implants heal incredibly fast. Mine healed within hours, so. Whoa, you. Yeah, you're not going to find anything like that.
- [55:53]
A
How many implants do you have? Like photo evidence of
- [55:59]
B
six or seven, I think.
- [56:00]
A
Could you send some of those over? It'd be cool to show them to the audience in post production. Sure.
- [56:05]
B
Yeah.
- [56:05]
A
Sweet. Thank you.
- [56:07]
B
And yeah.
- [56:10]
A
So what are you working on now? What is, what is, is it Neutron Nano Star Tech?
- [56:16]
B
Yeah, I have a company called Neutron Star Technologies and Neutron Star Nanotechnologies is like a spin off of that. And I've been just trying to get that funded and utilize some of the carbon nanotube knowledge I have to maybe produce some products. And I've been doing scans on experiencers.
- [56:39]
A
Cool.
- [56:40]
B
And I've done probably 400 scans on, on people.
- [56:44]
A
And so of those 400 scans, how many produce a hit?
- [56:49]
B
Well, it's a pre selected audience, so probably about half. About half. Wow.
- [56:56]
A
Wild.
- [56:56]
B
Yeah.
- [56:57]
A
Interesting. And at this point are you sort of. You're known as like, you know, Roger Lear's, you know, Living Apprentice. And so people hit you up?
- [57:05]
B
Yeah. Interesting.
- [57:07]
A
Okay, so fascinating. What, What? How old were you when you had your experience?
- [57:15]
B
I remember having an experience at age 5 where I think that's when they put the brain implant in or I remember waking up before dawn and seeing a. A bright yellow lit up ufo. Dis shaped UFO hovering over my parents house. And then I. I watched it for a couple of minutes and blacked out. Then woke up about 8 o' clock in the morning and the sun was up and I had blood all down the front of me and had a vague memory of somebody putting something. Something up my nose. Nose.
- [57:51]
A
Jesus. And this was. So this is age 5. This is well before the toe experience.
- [57:56]
B
Yeah.
- [57:56]
A
And where are you living at the time?
- [57:58]
B
Oxnard, California. Okay.
- [58:00]
A
What did your parents do?
- [58:03]
B
Not much. They just. So he had a nosebleed and I was wild.
- [58:09]
A
I mean, what did they do professionally?
- [58:10]
B
My dad was a dentist and was a colonel in the army reserve and my mother was his assistant at one point and bookie keeper at one point and was housewife the rest of the time.
- [58:26]
A
And they. Did they freak out when they saw you with blood running down or what was their reaction?
- [58:30]
B
Not really. I mean, my parents were not the type that freaked out about that Sort of thing.
- [58:39]
A
Interesting.
- [58:41]
B
And that might be because of alien conditioning. I. I would.
- [58:46]
A
Did they have their own experiences?
- [58:49]
B
My father admitted much later that he had. He'd had dreams of being on board a UFO and said he. He said he saw a UFO one time over central California.
- [59:00]
A
Wild.
- [59:01]
B
A cylindrical UFO with a red light on the front, he said.
- [59:04]
A
As a. As a colonel in the reserves, did he have any sort of affiliation with any possible reverse engineering programs or, like, deeper, spookier.
- [59:15]
B
I don't. I don't. I don't think so. But I think there's a lot he. He was reluctant to tell me. And he said he did call the military. The nearest military airfield to where he had the sighting and reported it.
- [59:30]
A
Yeah. It's fascinating. And so. Okay, so. Wow. So you're five years old. You see this bright object. Do you remember vividly being on that craft? No. You don't. Okay. So you just wake up.
- [59:43]
B
I think they came down into my room to put it in that time.
- [59:46]
A
And you had. And you. Where's the implant? It's. It's. What was it? It's.
- [59:49]
B
It's in the brain.
- [59:50]
A
It's in the brain.
- [59:51]
B
It's in the frontal lobes of the brain.
- [59:52]
A
And do you still have it there?
- [59:53]
B
I'm sure I do.
- [59:55]
A
Wild.
- [59:56]
B
And I've got one above each year, apparently. I wasn't sure about those. I saw them on X ray, barely, but they're really, really small. Wow. And. But they started giving off. They started giving off radio signals during a Japanese TV show I was. I was filming.
- [60:11]
A
Oh, my God.
- [60:12]
B
What were you doing? I know they're there now.
- [60:14]
A
What were you doing on Japanese tv?
- [60:16]
B
They wanted to interview somebody with implants.
- [60:19]
A
Whoa. And you. Since you had.
- [60:20]
B
You.
- [60:20]
A
You're five years old and you have blood all over and. Gee, that's traumatic, man. That's like a tough, crazy thing to go through.
- [60:27]
B
Well, this experience is pretty traumatic for a lot of people.
- [60:31]
A
Yeah.
- [60:33]
B
It's like. There's certain advantages to it. You get to fly in space. I mean, a lot of these abductions are. Take place on great motherships in orbit.
- [60:42]
A
Yeah.
- [60:43]
B
And I remember. I remember seeing the Earth from space being up there and. But you just have to take the. The bad with the good. I mean, I. I hate to tell people this, but these people are way too powerful to fight. Yeah. And they're experts at mind control. They can make you do anything you want. Anything they want you to do willingly.
- [61:07]
A
Of the. I don't even know how to answer to. To talk about that in the, in the 200 out of the 400 that you personally found implants in, do these people have usually UFO experiences associated with the implants? Or in certain cases, is it like people coming into their room sort of thing?
- [61:31]
B
They usually remember seeing UFOs and, or remember being on board UFOs, but it's both. I mean, sometimes they come into your room and do whatever they need to do, and other times they come and get you and take you up, up to orbit. And if they want to do anything special or whatever.
- [61:50]
A
Do you think at any point in time, some of the mind control stuff we discussed earlier was like aliens were used as sort of some sort of smoke screen for that? Like, it was like, there's a book called Controllers by a guy named Martin Cannon, and he talks about MK Ultra, but then the air MK often, and how there are implants involved in some of these things and how, how they would shade people's experiences to make them think that they were alien. And to be honest, it's kind of a slim, poorly researched book that doesn't, for me, explain everything neatly at all. But. Yeah, what's your take?
- [62:29]
B
I think that that may occur. I think that MK ULTRA might do that sometimes, but I think that the vast majority of the experiences people have are more or less what happened and really are alien. Aliens. I. I have no doubt in my mind that, that the aliens are here and they exist and there's more than one species involved.
- [62:49]
A
Yeah. I mean, there's so many cases that I also encounter where I'm like, you just can't explain that with, you know, human prosaic tech. I do find it interesting. You were at, you were at ucla in the 80s. You know, who was head of the UCLA psychiatry department at that time. Are you aware of.
- [63:07]
B
I probably was, but this guy named
- [63:09]
A
Jolly west, did you ever interact with him at all?
- [63:12]
B
No, no.
- [63:12]
A
He was like a head honcho in the MK Ultra.
- [63:15]
B
Wow. Yeah, I'm not surprised. I did used to work at the UCLA Neuropsychiatric Institute as a researcher for about five years.
- [63:23]
A
Okay.
- [63:24]
B
Okay. He probably had authority over that branch.
- [63:28]
A
I bet he might have. Yeah. I don't know. But definitely a spooky, not great guy. I think he got in trouble for like, dosing up an elephant with ridiculous amount of lsd and then the elephant died. And he's on record, there are letters between him and Sidney Gottlieb and there's a great book called Chaos by a guy named Tom o' Neill who's become a friend of mine. And he basically has this hypothesis that Charles Manson was this MK Ultra patient. And it's a really crazy.
- [63:55]
B
He may have been. I think that guy that shot. John Lenon was mk. Yeah, MK Ultra guy. And I think. I think Siran. Siran, that shot Robert Kennedy was too.
- [64:13]
A
I think so as well. Yeah. Yeah. So that's this. It's a weird threat, but. So there's that stuff. And then the. Do you think. What do you think these, the, the implants are doing when it comes to the alien? You think it's just, it's just tagging, it's biometrics and, and then maybe there's some mind control stuff going on. It's per hacking.
- [64:34]
B
I don't know. I don't know all the details of what they do. They keep that, the aliens keep that mostly secret. But I think some of them are medical monitoring devices, some of them are tracking devices, and some are the brain implants actually enable them to hear and see what you're hearing and seeing in real time.
- [64:57]
A
Does any of the structure that you've investigated kind of allow you to see what the functionality might be like? Because you're, you're looking into, you know, nanotechnology, so presumably this would use nanotechnology.
- [65:12]
B
They do, yeah. They're sophisticated nanotechnological devices. Most of them have carbon nanotube electronics built into the metal, and that's beyond our technology. And there's strange structures. I can show you some of the electron micrographs, please. And there's very strange structures that would be beyond our technology to form right now. I'm not sure what they do, but I suspect that has something to do with emitting the radio signals of a
- [65:42]
A
lot of these people you encounter. Is it usually Grays? Is it sometimes Nordics or Reptilians or some of these other sort of archetypes?
- [65:51]
B
I remember seeing mostly different types of Grays on board the craft. The real short worker type Grays and, and the, the ones about four and a half feet tall that I call the scientist engineer types. And I have a handler. That's one of those. And I think Most, most Class 2 experiences have a handler.
- [66:12]
A
What's. What do you. When you say handler, what does that mean?
- [66:15]
B
A contact person that. That is in charge of your case on boardship.
- [66:19]
A
Whoa. So a being.
- [66:21]
B
Yeah, being. Yeah.
- [66:22]
A
And how do you, like, are you still telepathically in touch with that handler or something or.
- [66:29]
B
I have reason to believe I am, yeah. I think he's here whole conversation right now.
- [66:33]
A
Whoa. What's up?
- [66:35]
B
Handler and they record everything that is experienced by every member of their society. And that includes Class 2 experiencers. When you get the brain implant, it connects you to the great high of mind. Like I said, this is wild.
- [66:50]
A
Does, does any part of you think that humans discovered, you know, there's this, I think in early 2000s there was this concern of the like runaway gray goo, nanotechnology tech, you know, scenarios. And nanotech was all the rage in the early 2000s and then it sort of like went away. And does any part of you think that humans can do any of this stuff like in deep black contexts?
- [67:15]
B
I think that, that nanotechnology is not that dangerous. As long as you don't design some, some microprobe that's self replicating.
- [67:24]
A
Right? Yeah, but yeah, that was the grey goose in scenario.
- [67:27]
B
Even if, even if you did, I'm not sure it would be all that dangerous. But I think what is dangerous is AI. If they ever do develop true self aware AI, that would be extraordinarily dangerous. Yeah, seems like the aliens don't believe in it. So I think that's why. Yeah, they believe in computers, but they, they're controlled by, by minds.
- [67:48]
A
Do you think there are good and bad factions of aliens? Or do you think they're all good or all bad or.
- [67:55]
B
No, I think there's good and bad factions.
- [67:58]
A
The beings that implanted you think good or bad,
- [68:03]
B
they're mainly out for themselves. But they're not scum sucking evil either. I mean they want humanity to mature into a more peaceful species and become members of the Galactic Federation or whatever you want to call it. But they're mostly here to mine the earth and the moon and collect biological samples.
- [68:24]
A
I mean that, that seems reasonable and not, not bad. What do you think of modern design?
- [68:31]
B
But they don't, they don't care about the suffering they inflict on people. That's, that's one bad thing about them that they have everything is for the group with them. They're, they're a collective mind. They don't care about individuals and they, they just care about what's best for the group.
- [68:46]
A
Why do you think they care so much about nuclear? They seem to show up some of them. My favorite interviews have been these guys that are often in their 70s and 80s at this point. They have worked at nuclear bases all over the US and in certain cases they board crafts, they have implants, you know, they're close encounters of the third kind. And I guess what you're calling kind of type two, you know, abductions or something.
- [69:09]
B
Yeah, yeah. I think a lot of, a lot of top military people are implanted and the aliens keep tabs on them. But I think they don't want us having nukes because A, it makes us too powerful, B, it has the great potential to screw up the planet, screw up a lot of their plans for this place. And see, it can damage the planet's life force reasonably. There's structures in the ether that contribute to life on this planet somehow. And a nuclear blast could disrupt that, at least in the general area where it was detonated. And they said that also that it screws up their communications and leads to problems in other dimensions that they didn't want to go into.
- [69:55]
A
Yeah, no, that, that is interesting. About like they seem to show up at nuclear disaster. Like there's this liter, literally this monk at this Shinto temple in Fukushima. And when they had their 2011 famous nuclear spill due to the earthquake, he was like the, the UFO showed up and cleaned up the temple.
- [70:13]
B
They were trying to alleviate the radiation.
- [70:15]
A
Exactly.
- [70:17]
B
Who.
- [70:22]
A
There's a Harvard PhD named Jensine Andreessen who writes about basically a similar experience in Chernobyl. And they, they measured this like nuclear tower before and after. And so I think it goes beyond just them not wanting us to blow ourselves up. There's something about the ambient electromagnetic radiation of just the Earth that is this perfect kind of petrified dish, you know, biosphere.
- [70:46]
B
Yeah, that makes sense. And there's maybe the, maybe the Earth is actually emitting some of this. But there's structures in the ether that are life giving and that might even resurrect some extinct species at some point in time. And nuclear blasts could disrupt that, and radiation in general can disrupt that. And also the government's known for years, the aliens definitely have this technology and the government's known for years that. But you can actually affect the decay rate of radioisotopes by certain scalar electromagnetic waves. Scalar waves are a special form of electromagnetic radiation that is a different structure. It's a more fundamental form of electromagnetic radiation than the transverse waves they talk about in the textbooks. And it interacts with the nuclei rather than the electrons in atoms like transverse waves.
- [71:38]
A
Waves do explain what a scalar wave is because scalar physics and scalar waves are often thrown around in these super hand wavy ways. And yet they're often used as terms, extended electrodynamics, scalar waves, by people who I really respect in kind of aerospace world. So what's your definition?
- [71:58]
B
They're trying to keep it secret, but enough has got out to know the basics. A guy, Dr. Tom Bearden, talked about this a lot in his books. If you've read any of those.
- [72:08]
A
Yeah.
- [72:09]
B
And anyway, a scalar wave, a transverse wave, EM wave is a wave that has the E and the B fields perpendicular to each other and it moves in a manner perpendicular to both. And the E and the B fields are in phase. In a scalar wave, the electric and Magnetic fields are 90 degrees out of phase and the magnetic field curves around like that. And the electric field radiates as if it's coming from a positive or negative charge point and it, it's like a sound wave in the ether, basically. And they can travel faster than light, they're not restricted to light speed.
- [72:51]
A
So I've heard similar things to that. And then the two places I always get frustrated is I'm like, have we ever measured a scalar wave? And usually the answer, like, have we? Do you think we. We have.
- [73:03]
B
I think they have lots of times. And how would we measure classified labs? But I have reason to believe that I haven't done the experiments yet. I'd love to get in the lab and do some, but some sort of quantum sensor. I have reason to believe that you can generate scalar waves with standard radio equipment, but a different type of antenna. You'd use a dome shaped antenna, a capacitive antenna with say, say a plastic dome with metal on both sides. And you connect the electrodes of the oscillator to each metal piece.
- [73:43]
A
Fascinating. Okay. And why do you think that that design would allow you to transmit scalar wave?
- [73:49]
B
Townsend Browns work basically.
- [73:52]
A
Yeah. Yeah. Well, he had an asymmetric capacitor where the negative electrode was larger than the positive electrode.
- [73:59]
B
Yeah.
- [74:00]
A
But I think basically my sense is that the main thing is big electric field differentials. If you create big electric field differentials, then you can somehow harness the quantum vacuum fluctuation stuff.
- [74:12]
B
Yeah, high voltages work better without reason to believe. I, I wish I could. I wish I had some concrete proof for you. But just reading all this stuff that's available and thinking about it a lot. I've put this together. Together.
- [74:26]
A
Yeah.
- [74:26]
B
But yeah, I think high voltages should work better for that.
- [74:29]
A
Yeah, it's very interesting. Yeah. I mean high voltages definitely correlate with high electric field strength. And then there are ways to amp up the electric field strength kind of artificially.
- [74:37]
B
Yeah.
- [74:37]
A
As well. But so fascinating. So what are you trying. How do we advance on this topic now? Is this, are we just in the stone age when we find these implants? Are we just like. We think this works like xyz, but we just have no idea what we're kind of looking at or.
- [74:53]
B
Well, I think the next step is we have to do more research on the implementation implants. Excuse me, While they're still in the body, and try to measure exactly how much they're transmitting and try to decode some of the signals. And after they're removed from the body, I think we need to try to connect the. Connect the. There's carbon nanotube bundles that are like the main connections to the device. We should try stimulating those with different voltages and see what happens under electron microscope or under microscopy in general. It wouldn't have to be a EM for that, I guess.
- [75:36]
A
Is there anybody else systematically looking into this besides you?
- [75:39]
B
No. And then the third thing I would do is use fast atom bombardment to shave off the devices layer by layer and map the distribution of elements in each layer and the distribution of carbon nanotubes.
- [75:56]
A
That would be fascinating. I mean, if you could do some atom by atom, you know, analysis, that would be also just groundbreaking. Because if. If these things are fabricated on the atomic layer, then that's not something that we can do.
- [76:08]
B
Yeah. They look like they're grown somehow.
- [76:12]
A
That's so wild. Like they're. Like they're biological themselves or something or.
- [76:17]
B
Or nanotechnological. Like they look like they were grown by some sort of mechanical life like the Transformers on the. The movies. That's a handwaving thing, I guess, but that's the best I can do right now. But putting that. Putting a device like that so complex together by standard methods would be next to impossible, I think. And the other thing I wanted to say is that when I first got into this, I thought the aliens are probably. Probably only a few hundred years in advance of us technologically. But now I think that it might be more like a million years in advance of us.
- [76:58]
A
Why is that?
- [76:59]
B
Well, they show off once in a while and show experiencers exactly how far ahead of us they really are. One incident that really impressed me was that they zapped my car with some kind of an energy weapon when I was going to Dr. Lew's office to film him testing the implant while I was still in the body. And the mechanic said later that the. The computer in the car was fried, like it was exposed to EMP or something. Something. And so I had to walk like they did it when I was in this canyon. Didn't get any cell phone reception, so I had to walk like two miles down the canyon. To get cell phone reception and call him. And he and the film crew showed up and, and picked me up and brought me to the office. And when we got to the office, he goes, steve, come here. You got to see this. And he pulled my X ray out of a stack of X rays. And, um, it was in a stack with about 200 other X rays. And he showed it to me. And the lettering from the outside of the envelope that the X ray was in had somehow been transferred to the developed X ray film.
- [78:24]
A
What?
- [78:25]
B
Yeah. I'm not even sure in theory how you could do that.
- [78:28]
A
So that's like root access to reality levels of manipulation or something?
- [78:34]
B
Something like that.
- [78:36]
A
That's bizarre.
- [78:37]
B
Another time, my son and I were driving to our old vacation place in Bullhead City, Arizona, and we were on Highway 40 out in a remote area. And I saw this, this bright white light hovering over this valley about 5 or 10 miles away. And it was really bright. And I go, hey, look, Garrett, there's a ufo. And he goes, what? He said, I don't see anything. And I'm like, how could you not see that? It's like his brightest view, Venus. And so I was tripping out on that and go, well, you know. And then a few miles down the road, he started seeing ones that I couldn't see. It's like they can. They can control who sees them and who doesn't. I don't know how they do that either.
- [79:28]
A
Yeah, not only signature management, but like unique signature management for the person perceived leaving.
- [79:35]
B
Yeah, I have some, some theories about how they might manage to cloak themselves in general by various methods.
- [79:42]
A
But what do you think it is?
- [79:44]
B
Selective. Selective seeing like that sounds a little hard to do.
- [79:49]
A
That seems really hard to do. Do you think it's like the access to our brains and they have access to the signature management stuff? Do you think that we have reverse engineering programs and crash retrievals?
- [80:01]
B
Oh, yeah, I think that's all true.
- [80:02]
A
Yeah. Do you have any, any, what's your, like, you know, highest conviction, hardest evidence on that? Because you seem like an evidence based person.
- [80:11]
B
Well, I analyzed some of the. The wreckage from the San Augustine, New Mexico UFO crash and analyzed a piece of an alien orb or sphere from the time Imassan got a hold of.
- [80:25]
A
And was this the BUGA sphere or.
- [80:27]
B
No, not the BUGA sphere, but another one. The Bugas had different, different design, but this one was about this big round and it had large, vaporized, from the looks of it, holes in the north and the south poles of the sphere. The Edges of the holes had been damaged by tremendous heat. And Massan bought it from a farmer that farmed about 100 miles south of the U.S. the U.S. border near Brownsville, Texas on the east coast of Mexico. And he said that when it crashed, it produced an explosion that killed a cow 100 meters away. Whoa. And if there was a strong magnetic field around the craft, which or which I have reason to believe there was, then the collapse of the magnetic field is what released the energy that vaporized the. The metal at the top and bottom.
- [81:32]
A
Why do you think this whole topic, it's like it attracts a few really smart people like yourself, and then you have so much circumstantial evidence, like an abundance of circumstantial evidence, and then somehow it's like the one smoking gun that we always want is. Slips through your fingers. And I'm talking about this as a person who's. I'm deeply. My revealed preference is that I'm like deeply interested in this stuff. I think there's a there there. I'm not a skeptic, but it's like this, like, it's always like the hard drive goes missing at the end. The photo is a little too blurry for like the consensus to believe it. It's so frustrating.
- [82:13]
B
It depends what you consider a smoking gun. I think that these extremely skewed isotopic ratios might be considered a smoking gun. And the fact that a lot of these, these pieces are nanot devices beyond our technology. And like that sphere was made of a titanium alloy that had carbon nanotubes also built into the metal, which I think provided thrust by the bifield brown effect. It did, Yeah, I think so. I mean, I don't know what else could have made it fly.
- [82:47]
A
Do you have this thing?
- [82:51]
B
Not anymore. It got stolen.
- [82:52]
A
Got stolen?
- [82:53]
B
Yeah.
- [82:54]
A
Who stole stole it?
- [82:57]
B
My family, if you can believe that.
- [82:58]
A
Oh man, I'm sorry.
- [83:00]
B
Yeah.
- [83:00]
A
That's horrible.
- [83:01]
B
Yeah.
- [83:02]
A
Why they took it.
- [83:04]
B
Yeah. I still do have some other alien stuff, but. But yeah, I can't find it anymore. And I have reason to believe it was within some stuff that they stole.
- [83:15]
A
Jesus Christ, man. I'm so sorry. That's messed up. It's not cool.
- [83:19]
B
No.
- [83:19]
A
Do you have. Is it. How does your family view. I mean your. Your wife is here. She's absolutely lovely and I can tell she's interested. This topic. Do you have other family and what do they think of your interest in all this stuff?
- [83:33]
B
Well, my ex wife is a Christian fundamentalist or says she is because of her. Her family's convictions and she's I think convinced my kids that. That I'm of the devil or something along those lines.
- [83:50]
A
Jesus. I'm sorry.
- [83:52]
B
And my mother is kind of unstable and also is. I kind of turned my kids against me as well. She's afraid I'll embarrass her by going on, on the air, putting stuff on the Internet, things like that.
- [84:07]
A
Well, I'm sorry Dan. I think your brain is a gift to humanity. So. And so we don't know where this object is that was taken from you?
- [84:15]
B
No, I don't know.
- [84:16]
A
Oh damn. That's crazy. And then what about the, the piece from St. Augustine crash in New Mexico?
- [84:22]
B
I still have. I still have some of that.
- [84:23]
A
That's fascinating.
- [84:24]
B
Yeah.
- [84:24]
A
And have you done. You've done isotopic analysis on that? And that has isotope ratios that are weird or.
- [84:31]
B
Yes. Topic ratios on, on that were not that remarkable. So that material may have. May have come from Earth. It may have some manufacturing facilities on Earth too.
- [84:43]
A
What material is it? Like what element?
- [84:46]
B
It's mainly aluminum. Okay. The, the sphere was a titanium alloy that with carbon nanotubes built into the metal and small like half millimeter V introduced into the metal to lower the density. So it had tremendous strength and was stronger than most any titanium alloy I know of. But it was about the same density as aluminum.
- [85:09]
A
And when you say Bifield Brown, you're just assuming that that's the anti gravitational force created.
- [85:16]
B
You could make capacitors out of the. The carbon nanotube. The carbon nanotubes had a capacitive dielectric coating on them in this case. So it seems a reasonable assumption. Assumption.
- [85:26]
A
So interesting.
- [85:27]
B
And you could use that spherical shape as a receiver for scalar energy. Tesla was trying to do that to power flying vehicles.
- [85:37]
A
Did he have designs for flying? I know he worked at Warden Floyd.
- [85:40]
B
I think he actually. I think he actually flew some.
- [85:42]
A
Really?
- [85:42]
B
This rumor has it.
- [85:44]
A
Really?
- [85:44]
B
Yeah.
- [85:45]
A
Where are those rumors? I didn't know about that. That's amazing.
- [85:50]
B
There's a book called Lost Science, I believe it's called in there. It's hard to get a hold of now.
- [85:55]
A
Do you have any footage of the implant being taken out of any of these patients?
- [85:59]
B
I'm not sure if I, I'm. I may, I may have like one or two pieces like that. I definitely have a lot of photos and stuff like that.
- [86:06]
A
It'd be amazing to show as much as we can just because I think the average person. This is so far out.
- [86:13]
B
Yeah, I mean it's, it's way People don't believe it because it's so far outside what we're taught.
- [86:20]
A
Yeah.
- [86:20]
B
And. And the government's done their best to punish people that believe in this in various ways.
- [86:27]
A
Yeah. I feel like I have to ask this question, but I feel like it's important for you because you've seen, like, a very lovely person. I've really enjoyed this conversation. If you Google your name, for whatever reason, this OKC bombing thing shows up. And so I just want to give you an opportunity to address what that is.
- [86:48]
B
A massive car bomb exploded outside of a large federal building in downtown Oklahoma City, shattering that building, killing children, killing federal employees, military men, and civilians. Oh, yeah. Well, I got. I got in trouble with the feds 30 years ago on a gun charge, weapons charge. And I got investigated along with 14,000 other people that were into similar things at that time. Time. And they. As near as I can figure, the ATF was trying to punish me for not cooperating in their investigation by trying to link me to that. That bombing.
- [87:28]
A
Oh, they were just trying to link you to that?
- [87:30]
B
Yeah. They never.
- [87:32]
A
And you didn't. You never knew Timothy McVey or anything?
- [87:34]
B
They never had any proof of any of that.
- [87:36]
A
That's so weird.
- [87:37]
B
In fact, I found out from a guy that was writing a. That's writing a book on Oklahoma City that I was cleared early on in the investigation. But they kept on saying out on
- [87:45]
A
the news that that sucks, man. It almost makes me think some sort of campaign against you because, like, why is there so much online that's like.
- [87:54]
B
I think there is. I think. I think they're trying. I think they're. They're taking full advantage of that whole thing to try to discredit my UFO research now. Yeah.
- [88:02]
A
And you never crossed paths with McVeigh at all? You never even met.
- [88:04]
B
No, I never met the guy.
- [88:06]
A
That's so crazy. And he didn't have a UCLA connection or anything like that?
- [88:09]
B
No. Okay. No.
- [88:10]
A
That's weird, man. I'm sorry.
- [88:13]
B
Well. Well, you know, if I wrote down everything that's occurred in my life in an autobiography, I don't think anybody believe it.
- [88:21]
A
Yeah.
- [88:21]
B
You know, so. But I experienced it, so.
- [88:25]
A
Yeah.
- [88:25]
B
Yeah.
- [88:25]
A
Yeah. I mean, what. What's anything come to mind?
- [88:29]
B
Well, just all. All this stuff, and, you know, first they try to link me to this Oklahoma thing, and then the aliens show up, and just a very, very odd series of events. Yeah.
- [88:41]
A
And is there. Is there anything about your. Is there anything about your father, his history, that might be related? So he said at the end of his life. He sort of admitted that he was, you know, maybe, you know, was taken up on a craft. Do you think he was doing any sort of COVID work in any of these areas or.
- [89:01]
B
I, I'm not sure. I. I don't think he was doing any covert work, but he was, he was. He kept things pretty close to his chest, so I think if he was, I'd be the last person he would have told.
- [89:11]
A
Interesting.
- [89:12]
B
Okay.
- [89:13]
A
Yeah. I don't know what would have even been going on at Oxnard specifically, but.
- [89:18]
B
Yeah, yeah. Well, there's a. There's a military base there that near there that was very important at one time. Point Magoo.
- [89:26]
A
Okay, point me. What did they do at Point McGee?
- [89:28]
B
Tested a lot of missiles.
- [89:30]
A
Okay.
- [89:31]
B
Submarine launch missiles and air to air missiles mostly.
- [89:34]
A
And. Okay. It's fascinating, man. Well, I really hope you get all the support for your work. You're trying to raise money for this, this, this company, Is that right? Neutron Star Nanotech.
- [89:45]
B
The economy being so bad right now, I haven't had a whole lot of success, but I'm still hoping to get that off the ground.
- [89:52]
A
Well, hopefully this gets amplified among people with deep pockets who are interested, I think, in supporting, you know, some of the most frontier science and work.
- [90:01]
B
Oh, very wealthy people have come forward a couple of times and wanted to support my work, but it fell through. And I had reason to believe at the time that the government told him not to do it.
- [90:15]
A
Really?
- [90:15]
B
Yeah. Robert Bigelow was going to hire me for his company at one time, too, and that also fell through.
- [90:21]
A
What.
- [90:22]
B
Why do you strange.
- [90:23]
A
What do you think it is? You know, with Bigelow and a lot of these guys, it's like there's this desire to get into this stuff and you really want to know. And then things get like, dark at a certain point. Like, it's, it's, it's sort of, it's. It's a very. And I find this, you know, with my own inquiries into the topic where, like, it's just. It's hard to navigate because there's a lot of weird stuff. You know, it's. There's a lot. There are a lot of bad. There's a lot of bad energy, and then there's. There's good energy, too. There are amazing people in this field, but a lot of people are attracted to it for the wrong reasons. And there's. I think there's even like a. Like an old testament line about trying to use. Trying to go into, you know, kind of sacred stuff, using with a Commercial impulse and that being like this really, you know, bad thing to do. Having said that, I think we live in a capitalist system and like the only thing that kind of works in the modern day is like start a company around the thing. So I'm not like anti all companies, you know, I used to invest, invest in companies. So it's this weird. But it is this weird thing where I think if the motivation is to make money off the thing, it often goes south. And I don't know Bigelow, I'd love to interview him, but my sense is it sort of didn't pan out maybe in the way he wanted it to.
- [91:40]
B
Well, Dr. Lear told me that he started this aerospace company of his because he'd had an alien experience of his own out in the desert and that them, they told him to meet them in space.
- [91:58]
A
Who, who said this? This is.
- [91:59]
B
The aliens told him to meet them. Bigelow. They told Bigalow to meet them in space.
- [92:05]
A
Whoa, really?
- [92:07]
B
Yeah, I think so.
- [92:08]
A
Bigalow had an experience and the alien said, we'll meet you in space.
- [92:12]
B
Right.
- [92:13]
A
And then from then on he like committed his life essentially to looking into all this stuff. Ufo, reverse engineering, hiring the alien implant specialist. Like really.
- [92:23]
B
On the Bigelow Aerospace website, there was a little alien head too. Wow. Kind of like he was announcing that or.
- [92:32]
A
That is absolutely wild, the amount of stories you hear like that. Like I think Agnew Bonson, who he headed up the Institute for Field Physics and you know, at North Carolina, Chapel Hill. And he also funded Townsend Brown. So he's working on all this crazy anti gravity stuff and hosting kind of the top gravity physicists in the world. Freeman Dyson, Feynman, Peter Bergman, all these guys convened John Wheeler at the Institute of field Physics in 1957 for this chapel Hill conference. And he in his diaries talks about like the space brothers talking to him and possibly kind of prompting him to look into this stuff. Townsend Brown had similar experiences where he, he had space brother experiences that he discusses. So it's like you're being prompted by the beings to look into what they, their tech is or something.
- [93:20]
B
They, they, they talked to Tesla too. According to what? To his writings.
- [93:24]
A
He said that? Yeah, in Colorado Springs, he said he communicated with aliens. Did you ever have anything like that? I mean, I have to ask you, because you're working on all this stuff, did the beings ever say, Steve, you are going to dedicate your life to alien research?
- [93:39]
B
I, I don't remember them saying that specifically, but I've always had an Obsession with, with, with this kind of research and certain other things. And I think that they do that to a lot of people because once you get obsessed with the topic and you do all this research on it, if they have a brain implant in you, then they know it too at that point. So they're, they're getting you to do their research for them.
- [94:04]
A
Yeah, it's like this weird distributed science model or something where like they just, just have, they're collecting intel through these different scientific nodes or something. It's so trippy.
- [94:16]
B
Yeah. Yeah.
- [94:17]
A
And we're all, we're all maybe their science experiment. Who knows?
- [94:21]
B
Well, one of the obsessions. Part of the reason I got into trouble before is one of the obsessions was with weapons. And I, you know, it's. I think that's kind of characteristic with some, some people that are Class 2 experiencers. There was one guy that was most likely a Class 2 experiencer that a bunch of guns in his house. And it was a. That was a big to do over that. So maybe it's a characteristic. I don't know.
- [94:47]
A
Fascinating. Well, Steve, I really appreciate. This is a lot of fun. I feel like I could talk to you for hours. I could tell we're interested in a lot of the same stuff and. Yeah, I really, really appreciate your. Your time.
- [95:00]
B
Yeah, no problem. My pleasure.
- [95:01]
A
Awesome.
- [95:07]
B
Sam,
- [95:35]
A
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