American Alchemy: Nazis & UFOs: Hitler's Obsession with Alien Technology

Host: Jesse Michels
Guest: Dr. Jason Reza Jorjani
Date: November 1, 2025

Main Theme & Purpose

This episode delves into the controversial intersections between Nazi occultism, advanced technology (notably UFOs), postwar intelligence networks, and the possible involvement of non-human (or time-manipulating “Nordic”) intelligences. Dr. Jason Reza Jorjani, a philosopher known for his ambitious, heretical theories, joins to discuss the deep, multifaceted legacy of Nazi science and ideology—including UFOs, the deep state, and secret Antarctic/Atlantean connections.

Tone: Deeply intellectual, unorthodox, speculative, and at times conspiratorial—blending history, philosophy, esotericism, and ufology.

1. Philosophers, Heresy, and the Decline of Inquiry

[02:50–13:43]

Key Points

• Crisis in Philosophy: Jorjani laments the decline of true philosophical reasoning, with the discipline having devolved into "academic scholasticism and logic chopping." He insists that real philosophers synthesize across ontology, epistemology, ethics, politics, and aesthetics.
• Philosophers as Heretics: Most celebrated "philosophers" in religious or political service (e.g., Aquinas, Islamic theologians) are not true philosophers; a philosopher must be free of religious allegiance and willing to risk persecution (like Socrates or Bruno).
• Aesthetics & Ethics: The cultivation of aesthetic discernment is foundational to higher knowledge—"a kind of knowledge that transcends or undergirds reductive rationality."
  • Quote:
    “It is definitional to a philosopher that you cannot adhere to a religious belief system, otherwise… you are crippling yourself and your basically capacity to question...”
    (Jorjani, 09:11)

2. Secret Networks and the Shadow of Nazism

[32:05–65:01]

Key Points

• Paperclip and the Birth of the Deep State:
  The postwar intelligence and security apparatus in the U.S. (CIA, NSA) absorbed not just Nazi scientists (Operation Paperclip), but entire Nazi spy and counterintelligence networks (General Reinhard Gehlen's organization).

  • Quote:
    “It’s not just that we brought over all these Nazi scientists… the CIA that did that was co-constituted by absorbing an SS spy network.”
    (Jorjani, 60:01)

• Nazi Technological Leaps:

  • Magenta Crash (1933): Nazi and Italian fascist cooperations on captured UFO technology; project moved to Czechoslovakia.

  • Nazi Bell (Die Glocke): Alleged Nazi experiments with plasma fusion, thorium, and mercury in a device that exhibited anti-gravity and temporal anomalies.

    • Biological consequences: Disintegration of organic matter, death/disorientation among scientists—possibly linked to time manipulation.
    • Quote:
      "They put plants around this thing and they would turn to mulch. They were disrupted on a cellular level… the entire first team of scientists… died very quickly..."
      (Jorjani, 48:56)

  • Saucer Airframes and Tech: Germans develop disc-shaped craft employing aerodynamics and “memory metal” similar to debris recovered at Roswell.

    • “German subsidiary of IBM… was way ahead… of the American IBM.”
      (Jorjani, 41:21)

  • Roswell as Nazi Psychological Ops:
    Jorjani suggests Roswell may have been a Nazi-origin psyop using advanced tech, not necessarily extraterrestrial in nature.

    • Quote:
      "The Nazis created the crisis at Roswell. They staged an event..."
      (Jorjani, 63:01)

• Weapons and Bargains:

  • Nazis may have achieved fission and/or fusion bombs—possibly even "clean" (aneutronic) fusion weapons—and traded knowledge/uranium to the U.S. in exchange for institutional amnesty and postwar power structures.

• The Hydra Thesis:
  Nazi/fascist networks did not simply end or become inert post-1945—instead, they infiltrated and co-created American and Western security states.

  • “They did not win the war... No, they won the war, you just have to rethink what the war is."
    (Jorjani, 84:00)

3. Weltanschauungskrieg and Social Engineering

[88:00–97:00]

Key Points

• Weltanschauungskrieg ("Worldview War"):
  Nazi thinkers viewed conflict as a metaphysical war over reality, not mere territory. The outcome is the shaping of civilization's future—possible preparation for a “thousand year Reich” through deep, generational social engineering.
• Fascism & the Deep State:
  The core elite is described as "fascist," not truly nationalist or Nazi, and working toward a global (not national) imperium.
  • “It’s not bizarre for these people to engage in a century of social engineering to set up then what they expect would be a thousand year imperium.”
    (Jorjani, 87:31)

4. Nazi Occultism, the Antarctic, and Atlantis

[97:00–126:47]

Key Points

• Nazi Atlantis/Thule Belief:
  Nazi/Thule Society obsession with Atlantis as an Aryan proto-civilization, equating Thule/Atlantis with Antarctica.

• 1937–38 Antarctic Expedition and “Hidden Nazi Bases”:
  Nazi expeditions dropped swastika flags and scouted Antarctica—a possible quest for ancient high civilization ruins/technology.

• Rudolf Hess Enigma:
  Nazi sent to Antarctica, later tried to make a secret peace offer to Britain; kept in lifelong isolation by Allied powers.

  • “Why keep him in prison?... What did Hess know, what did he see in Antarctica?”
    (Jorjani, 110:56)

• US and Operation Highjump (1946–47):
  Massive US naval expedition to Antarctica, possibly provoked by Nazi submarine activity and tech.

  • Admiral Byrd’s cryptic warning: “prepare for a third world war in which aircraft could cross from pole to pole...”
    (Jorjani, 115:03)

• Atlantis = Antarctica?:
  Mythological, geographical, and map-based arguments (Plato’s Timaeus, Mayan legends, Piri Reis map) positioning Antarctica as Atlantis; possibility of surviving "Nordic"/Atlantean descendants.

• Atlanteans as Subterranean Survivors:
  Advanced civilizations sheltering underground or under mountain ranges, possibly still present—basis for “Nordic” non-human encounters.

5. Nordics, Time, and Ouroboros Loops

[127:47–140:00]

Key Points

• The “Nordics” and Time Travel:
  Theorizes that so-called Nordics are time travelers—possibly humans or “cousins” who cracked time manipulation in the future and are “retrocausally” influencing human history, appearing as multiple "species"/phenotypes at different evolutionary development stages.

• Contact, Factions, and Motive:
  Nordics may be fractured internally—some “rebel angels” escape to Earth for its freedoms, hiding in places like the Colorado Rockies.

  • “...a future state of a certain culture is contacting itself in the past and reinforcing itself in the past... trying to pull the timeline towards itself...”
    (Jorjani, 149:46)

6. UFOs, Nazi UFO Encounters, and Abductions

[140:00–145:00]

Key Points

• “Nazi” Looking UFO Occupants:
  Notably in the Betty and Barney Hill abduction (1961): “He looks like a German Nazi. He is a Nazi. Did he have on a uniform? Yes.”
  (Barney Hill regression, 141:57; Jorjani, 140:29–141:57)

• Adamski Contacts:
  According to Desmond Leslie’s daughter, Adamski’s “Venusians” were allegedly Nazi contacts in disguise.

• Elite Confluence:
  Postwar elite groups (Knights of Malta, CIA, financiers) blend Nazi, Western, Jewish, and intelligence affiliations; references to Paul Mellon, Kissinger, Skorzeny, Galen, Dulles, etc.

7. The Control System, Tricksters, and the Devil

[150:03–206:24]

Key Points

• Control System Hypothesis:
  Suggestion of a hyperdimensional, trickster “thing” or artificial intelligence covertly guiding, testing, or farming humanity (“louche harvesting”), possibly through an afterlife “grid”—see Robert Monroe, Carla Turner.

  • “We are living in a control system that is managed by entities who work for a demiurge that’s harvesting us for what he called loosh...”
    (Jorjani, 153:42)

• Prometheus as Rebel:
  The Promethean stance is cast as the true model for human liberation and creative growth, as opposed to submitting to the “God” (or demiurge) of control systems.

  • “God is an invention of the devil.”
    (Jorjani, 216:44)

• Occult, Trickster, and Surrealism:
  Bizarre, puzzling, often traumatic phenomena (e.g., Men in Black, mantids, owls, missing persons) are interpreted as machinations of a trickster intelligence forcing human evolution through cognitive expansion, a “magic theater of cruelty” (borrowing from Hermann Hesse and Antonin Artaud).

• Surrealist Engagement:
  Surrealists’ obsession with the mantis as a symbol of the trickster/devil, and the role of absurdity—a “growth process,” testing humanity’s capacity for aesthetic/cognitive transcendence.

8. The Nietzschean Challenge & The Magic Theater

[229:56–238:45]

Key Points

• Nietzsche, Nihilism, and Surrealism:
  The podcast closes with a renewed call for radical, creative confrontation with nihilism and “growth through ordeal,” echoing Nietzsche and Surrealism.

• Hermann Hesse’s Magic Theater (“Steppenwolf”):
  The metaphor of human civilization as an absurd, transformative drama—a “magic theater of cruelty”—where individuals are both actors and spectators, forced to confront (and transcend) their own limitations.

  • “Life is dangerous, but look what creativity came from out of it.”
    (Jorjani, 227:54)

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On the True Philosopher
  “It is definitional to a philosopher that you cannot adhere to a religious belief system, otherwise… you are crippling yourself and your basically capacity to question and develop concepts from the outset.”
  – Jorjani (09:11)

• Roswell as Nazi-Engineered PSYOP
  “The Nazis created the crisis at Roswell. They staged an event.”
  – Jorjani (63:01)

• On Postwar Deep State
  “The CIA that brought over all those Nazi scientists... was co-constituted by absorbing an SS spy network.”
  – Jorjani (60:01)

• Weltanschauungskrieg
  “It’s a war over the constitution of the world from out of human consciousness on a social level.”
  – Jorjani (89:13)

• Antarctica/Atlantis Thesis
  “They send a ton of personnel down there. They even fly over the Transantarctic Mountains and drop swastika flags all over the landscape...”
  – Jorjani (108:54)

• The Nordics and Time Travel
  “A future state of a certain culture is contacting itself in the past, trying to pull the timeline towards itself...”
  – Jorjani (149:46)

• Promethean/Trickster Intelligence
  “This thing is challenging us to grapple with these over Nordic overlords… [and] demonstrates our capacity to develop a much more innovative and open ended society…”
  – Jorjani (214:29)

• On Absurdity & the Supernatural
  “I think that this entity, the thing, that manifests as mantids... is a shape shifting intelligence… challenging us to grapple with these overlords in a way that reasserts our self determination.”
  – Jorjani (214:26)

• God as a PSYOP
  “God is an invention of the devil.”
  – Jorjani (216:44)

Timestamps of Key Segments

• 02:50 — Philosophers & their societal role
• 32:05 — Nazi Paperclip, Galen Org, and the American “deep state”
• 39:00 — German advanced tech, “memory metal,” V2, the Bell, and Roswell connections
• 53:58 — Nazi Bell: anti-gravity, time effects, biological consequences
• 63:01 — Roswell as a Nazi psy-op
• 84:04 — The Thousand-Year Reich: Social engineering & worldview war
• 97:14 — Thule, Atlantis, Antarctica: Nazis and the search for Aryan/Atlantean origins
• 126:47 — Remote viewing Antarctica, 2050, climate cataclysm
• 149:46 — Nordics, time, and circular causation
• 153:42 — “Louche farm” & afterlife as a psychotronic control system
• 198:20 — Mantids, Surrealism, and the Diabolical/Trickster
• 214:26 — The “thing,” humanity’s challenge, magic theater
• 216:44 — “God is an invention of the devil”
• 229:56 — Nietzsche, Vitalism, Magic Theater

For Listeners

This episode provides a dense and ambitious framework, tying together conspiracy, philosophy, metaphysics, and alternative readings of history. Dr. Jorjani reframes even the most outlandish speculation as crucial to a Promethean, heretical search for truth—and a warning: the true war is one over “the worldhood of the world,” fought in the shadows of institutions, myth, and consciousness.

If you’re new to these ideas, expect a blend of secret history, high intellectualism, and esoteric speculation, unconstrained by the boundaries of conventional discourse.

For further exploration:

• Jorjani’s books, especially Prometheus and Atlas, Closer Encounters, and Iranian Leviathan
• Joseph Farrell, Nick Cook, Igor Witkowski (on Nazi UFOs & the Bell)
• Jacques Vallée (Trinity)
• Missing 411 by David Paulides
• Classic Surrealist texts and Nietzschean philosophy

End of summary.