What I Learned From Joe Rogan (ft. Young Jamie and Viktor Hovland)

Summary

American Alchemy Podcast Summary: "What I Learned From Joe Rogan (ft. Young Jamie and Viktor Hovland)"

Release Date: June 4, 2025
Host: Jesse Michels
Guests: Young Jamie and Viktor Hovland

---

Introduction

In this gripping episode of American Alchemy, host Jesse Michels delves deep into the enigmatic world of UFOs and advanced technologies, guided by insights gleaned from an appearance on The Joe Rogan Experience. Joined by UFO enthusiast Young Jamie and professional golfer Viktor Hovland, the trio navigates through historical sightings, government conspiracies, and the intersection of technology and the paranormal.

---

UFO Phenomena and Historical Sightings

Exploration of UFO Evidence

The conversation kicks off with a passionate discussion about UFOs, driven by Jesse's recent appearance on Joe Rogan's podcast. Young Jamie shares his fascination, stating:

"Obviously those videos that were released or leaked from the Pentagon that came out. The Gimbal. And Isit Nimitz? The other one." ([05:33] Jamie)

Jesse echoes this sentiment, emphasizing the growing body of corroborative accounts:

"But then you hear more and more guys coming out like that, and it's very hard to just dismiss all their information totally. Especially when a lot of their stories, like, corroborate each other." ([06:18] Jamie)

Historical Incidents: Italy 1933 and Swedish Ghost Rockets

The guests delve into historical UFO sightings, highlighting events such as the 1933 Magenta Crash in Italy and Sweden's ghost rockets in 1946. Victor Hovland provides context:

"In 46, in Sweden, they had ghost rockets which looked like modified V2s. And Eisenhower sent General James Doolittle out there to investigate." ([07:00] Victor)

Government Involvement and Suppression

They discuss possible government suppression of UFO information, particularly in the United States compared to other countries. Jamie notes:

"It just seems like everywhere else outside of the U.S. the governments are like, they're. It's easier for them to kind of keep that information on the down low versus here in the United States." ([07:46] Jamie)

---

The Mystery of the Pyramids

Speculations on Hidden Structures

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on the pyramids of Egypt, with Victor and Jamie debating the existence of hidden chambers:

"There's definitely stuff under the pyramid. That's how much and how deep it goes is kind of the question." ([19:03] Victor)

Jesse expresses skepticism regarding recent technological claims:

"But this new thing is like synthetic aperture radar, which doesn't penetrate below the ground enough to be able to get like these generators at that level of granularity, be able to draw them up." ([19:22] Jesse)

Historical Documentation and Theories

The conversation touches upon historical documentation, referencing Graham Hancock and Robert Schoch's theories about the pyramids predating known ancient Egyptian civilization:

"I believe the, like, Graham Hancock and Robert Schoch, John Anthony West theories that like limestone damage on the Sphinx shows that it predates, you know, whatever it was." ([21:08] Jesse)

---

Credibility and Conspiracies

Changing Narratives and Discrediting Sources

The guests express frustration over attempts to discredit credible sources through misinformation. Jesse shares an alarming instance:

"They literally change. Did you see this, Jamie? They... They literally changed him from, like, top presidential aide, you know, JFK, LBJ, Nixon, Ford, to, like, American writer and lobbyist." ([23:27] Jesse)

Jamie adds:

"That they changed his Wikipedia right after, like, that makes you pretty conspiratorial when you see something like that." ([25:52] Jamie)

Connections to the Intelligence Community

The discussion ventures into connections between high-profile individuals and intelligence communities, speculating on hidden knowledge about extraterrestrial technologies. Jesse muses:

"I think if they do have stuff, which I do think they have stuff, I don't think they know how to use it." ([27:20] Jesse)

---

Advanced Technology and Physics

Theoretical Frameworks for UFO Propulsion

A deep dive into the physics theories that could explain UFO propulsion systems ensues. Jesse references pioneers like Thomas Townsend Brown:

"Townsend Brown figured out basically a way to manipulate gravity. With electromagnetism." ([29:20] Jesse)

Jamie questions the feasibility and applicability of these theories:

"There's so many physicists that are talking about, like, okay, advanced, whatever, technology... And then you have so many other scientists, whatever, the establishment, that are just fully materialistic." ([30:42] Jamie)

Practical Challenges in Technology Replication

The guests discuss the practical challenges in replicating or understanding advanced technologies, emphasizing the gap between possession and utilization:

"Even if you know how to use it, doesn't mean you know how to make it or deconstruct it or recharge it." ([28:36] Victor)

---

Cultural References and Synchronicities

Back to the Future and Scientific Parallels

Jesse draws parallels between popular culture and real-world scientific endeavors, referencing the iconic film Back to the Future:

"The flux capacitor, which is Townsend Brown's experiment as a capacitor." ([38:15] Jesse)

Victor speculates on the deliberate synchronization:

"Way, according to Time DeLong? It's all on purpose, I think." ([38:23] Victor)

Implications of Synchronicities

They ponder the significance of these synchronicities, contemplating whether they point to deliberate programming or mere coincidences:

"Or is it just like the wild synchronicities of life that, like, simulation." ([38:29] Victor)

---

Conclusion and Future Outlook

Momentum in UFO Discourse

As the episode wraps up, the guests express optimism about the growing attention and momentum surrounding UFO research:

"I think there's going to be a lot of momentum in this world for like the next. I just, I feel like it's in the zeitgeist." ([47:28] Jesse)

Victor agrees, adding:

"Yeah, yeah, yeah." ([47:49] Victor)

Closing Remarks

Jesse concludes the episode by highlighting the importance of keeping an open mind and continuing the quest for knowledge:

"I don't think that's going to be the case. And that was like six months ago. I would, I would believe that it's going to, like, keep, keep growing." ([47:49] Jesse)

---

Notable Quotes

• Jesse Michels ([05:33]): "Obviously those videos that were released or leaked from the Pentagon that came out. The Gimbal. And Isit Nimitz? The other one."

• Young Jamie ([06:18]): "But then you hear more and more guys coming out like that, and it's very hard to just dismiss all their information totally. Especially when a lot of their stories, like, corroborate each other."

• Viktor Hovland ([07:00]): "In 46, in Sweden, they had ghost rockets which looked like modified V2s. And Eisenhower sent General James Doolittle out there to investigate."

• Jesse Michels ([23:27]): "They literally change him from, like, top presidential aide, you know, JFK, LBJ, Nixon, Ford, to, like, American writer and lobbyist."

• Viktor Hovland ([28:36]): "Even if you know how to use it, doesn't mean you know how to make it or deconstruct it or recharge it."

---

Key Takeaways

1. UFO Phenomena Are Intricately Linked to Historical Events: The guests underscore the importance of historical UFO sightings and government documentation in understanding the present discourse on extraterrestrial phenomena.

2. Government Suppression Hinders Public Understanding: Attempts to discredit credible sources through misinformation and narrative manipulation impede the public's ability to grasp the full scope of UFO-related information.

3. Advanced Physics Theories Offer Potential Explanations: Theoretical frameworks like those proposed by Thomas Townsend Brown suggest that manipulating gravity through electromagnetism could be a pathway to understanding UFO propulsion systems.

4. Cultural Synchronicities May Indicate Deeper Connections: Parallels between scientific theories and popular culture narratives hint at possible deliberate synchronization or shared underlying knowledge.

5. Growing Momentum in UFO Research: There is an increasing collective focus on UFO phenomena, driven by public interest and emerging credible information, suggesting that the discourse will continue to gain traction.

---

Final Thoughts

This episode of American Alchemy serves as a compelling exploration of the multifaceted discussions surrounding UFOs, blending historical accounts, scientific theories, and cultural phenomena. Jesse Michels, along with guests Young Jamie and Viktor Hovland, encourages listeners to remain curious, question established narratives, and remain open to the mysteries that lie beyond our conventional understanding.

For those intrigued by the intersection of the mysterious and the scientific, this episode offers a thought-provoking journey into one of the most captivating subjects of our time.

Transcript

[Jesse]

Foreign.

[Thomas]

What'S up everybody? We have a very special show for you today. Apparently dreams do come true. I achieved one of mine when I went on the Joe Rogan Experience. The episode is live today. I don't really get nervous for anything, but I was pretty nervous for this. I've been a super fan of Joe's show for the last decade and so it was tough to contain myself and lay low when leading up to the episode he had been texting me, talking about binging our show American Alchemy and loving it. Joe is a hero of mine. I think he's a strong force for good and free thought and he showed a ton of courage under fire during the pandemic. So saying that this was an honor would be a massive understatement. On the show we talk about all sorts of crazy shit from artificial intelligence. It doesn't matter whether AGI, you know, hits some like perfectly Turing passable point. You're going to get this like these weird cult like dynamics. Like the meta sociological thing is you're going to get like religions dedicated to AI.

[Jamie]

Oh for sure. Oh for sure. Without a doubt there'll be people worshiping.

[Victor Hovland]

Certain branches of AI.

[Thomas]

It's a secret science. And I think there is technology that is black technology and science that is black science. And then I think there's stuff out in the open. And so I think this has already maybe happened in certain contexts and you know, super secret Department of Energy facilities, which I think it's crazy to say that that hasn't happened. You're saying that it only happened with the Manhattan Project and it hasn't happened since. That's insane. There is black science to exotic propulsion. Gravity is out here hanging out by itself on an island. So you have the standard model quantum field theory and you have Einstein's theory of gravity and the two are not reconcilable. It is my belief that if you were to reconcile them, you could create exotic propulsion to UFOs. I saw a thing that looked like a fucking school bus. It looked like no visible propulsion. This sort of low humming noise or whatever it was maybe 50, 60, 70ft high right above the treetops. Those bizarre Nazca tridactyl mummies that I flew down to Peru to see.

[Jamie]

What do you think is going on there?

[Thomas]

They break my brain. I don't want to be overly sensationalist about this. If it's a hoax, it's the best hoax ever. And finally, the legendary Thomas Townsend Browne. Townsend Browne's biographer has him on record in a, in A phone call that is recorded saying the tests were very tricky, but in the end we got it to work and he's on his deathbed. But before you go and watch that, just wait a second. We have a very special episode for you today. Before going on Joe's show, I had already been friends with his producer, young Jamie. Jamie is an awesome guy. He knows a ton about UFOs and is down some pretty crazy rabbit holes. So naturally, we hit it off. He's also a huge golf fan, serendipitously one of the best golfers in the world. Victor Hovland reached out to me last year because he's a huge fan of American Alchemy and happened to be coming to Austin in late April. Victor is the absolute man. Outside of being a top 10 golfer in the world, the sensation from Norway is humble down to earth and super smart. In his spare time, he's reading Plato and learning about UFOs. Let's all root for him in the US Open this month. So Jamie, Victor and I did a little golfing at Barton Pitchin Putt when Victor was in town. They watched me absolutely embarrass myself as we discuss a bunch of trippy fun topics. Without further ado, please enjoy this week's amazing American Alchemists, Jamie Vernon and Victor Hovland. Oh, and one more thing. We just launched maybe the coolest merch line ever, which I'll link in the description. I mean, just look at these designs. We have our cowboy UFO tee and our atomic space age tee. So go grab those and watch my episode with Joe Rogan. But not before watching this amazing special episode of American Alchemy.

[Jesse]

What got you into UFOs, dude? It's cool.

[Jamie]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

Oh, no. There's like a lot of evidence there are crashes and that they have anomalous stuff.

[Victor Hovland]

How much and how deep it goes is kind of the question.

[Jamie]

What's the deal about the pyramids?

[Jesse]

What was I doing wrong before? Like I'd hit it.

[Jamie]

Where do we start? Summon the egg.

[Jesse]

Summon the egg.

[Jamie]

Okay.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Victor Hovland]

Multiple different factions.

[Jesse]

He has some conspiracy theories.

[Jamie]

Okay.

[Victor Hovland]

I don't even know if they're conspiracies. Never thought about it until right now. I might want to pull up my phone.

[Jesse]

Pull it up.

[Jamie]

Jamie.

[Jesse]

He'S like you.

[Victor Hovland]

Different parts of the brain have different activities.

[Jesse]

But you know that, don't you? Maybe you should interview me.

[Victor Hovland]

My driver game is broken right now. Not that I'm going to ask you for any tips, but I'm. I'm. Any driver only.

[Jamie]

Yeah, I'LL take a look, bro.

[Jesse]

I might go till I run out of balls, cuz I know I'm going to whack it into weird places.

[Victor Hovland]

No, you're fine.

[Jamie]

This is sweet.

[Jesse]

All right.

[Victor Hovland]

Who's Jamie?

[Jesse]

You're going first.

[Jamie]

You want to send it?

[Victor Hovland]

That's too hard.

[Jamie]

Not bad.

[Jesse]

There you go.

[Jamie]

Just hit the shop first and we'll see what we got.

[Jesse]

Okay, man. Not working with much.

[Victor Hovland]

Oh, all right.

[Jesse]

Bad.

[Victor Hovland]

Just gonna run right down there. Whoa. That's it.

[Jesse]

What got you into UFOs?

[Jamie]

Obviously those videos that were released or leaked from the Pentagon that came out.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

Gimbal. And Is it Nimitz? The other one.

[Jesse]

Go fast. Yeah.

[Jamie]

And then it's just been this like, slow bleed of listening to Joe Rogan's podcast and hearing bobbles are. And like, that's. Yeah, yeah, interesting. But that was like the first story or that I'd heard about it. And it's very easy to go, okay, that's just one guy. Just dismiss him.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

And then you just move on with your life. But then you hear more and more guys coming out like that, and it's very hard to just dismiss all their information totally. Especially when a lot of their stories, like, corroborate each other.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

You start to hear about the case in Virginia or Bib Grusch mentioned. In 1933, it was in Italy.

[Jesse]

In Italy, it's long been known that the regime of dictator Benito Mussolini documented.

[Thomas]

Numerous UAP during this time. This internal memo from the Italian secret services includes crude drawings of the UAPs.

[Jesse]

It's true. It's real.

[Victor Hovland]

Yeah, that actually happened.

[Jamie]

Italian government moved it to a secure air base in Italy for the rest of kind of the fascist regime until 1944, 1945. And you know, the Pope Pius XII back channeled that sort of.

[Jesse]

So the Vatican was involved.

[Victor Hovland]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

And told the Americans what the Italians.

[Thomas]

Had and we ended up scooping it.

[Jamie]

There's so many places where it's happened all over the world.

[Jesse]

In 46, in Sweden, they had ghost rockets which looked like modified V2s. And Eisenhower sent General James Doolittle out there to investigate. And there were like over a thousand of these, like V2 rockets that seemed to like be able to move in and traverse in ways that like V2s would generally just, you know, they wouldn't steered themselves that much or whatever. And they would go like way faster than V2s. And so nobody knows like what those are. And. Yeah, I don't know. I guess I think Sweden itself has like a lot of UFOs. So they have like a big UFO contingency.

[Jamie]

Okay.

[Jesse]

And there's like an astronomer there named Beatrice Villarreal who's big in this stuff, but I don't know that.

[Jamie]

It just seems like everywhere else outside of the U.S. the governments are like, they're. It's easier for them to kind of keep that information on the down low versus here in the United States. There's so many people who are anti governor government and kind of think for themselves a little bit. So they push the narratives out there.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

But it is so frustrating because you don't really have anything concrete and like hard evidence yet.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

Even though there seems to be so much out there coming from your videos and like the deep dives that you do, it's. It's unbelievable. And you want it to be like.

[Jesse]

You just want to have something you want to believe. Yeah, yeah.

[Jamie]

But it's hard to just go like full deep into it until you have for sure something concrete. But hopefully that's going to come soon.

[Jesse]

You're the youngest in the top 10.

[Jamie]

I might be. I don't know. To be honest.

[Jesse]

I thought you were. You think? How old are you? 20. You're 25?

[Jamie]

27.

[Jesse]

27, yep.

[Victor Hovland]

Uh. Oh.

[Jesse]

Oh.

[Victor Hovland]

Sit.

[Jesse]

Dude.

[Jamie]

Drop. Damn. Just hitting everything far.

[Jesse]

See Anduril moved to Ohio.

[Victor Hovland]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

I think we tend to.

[Victor Hovland]

At least that's a giant spot there for sure.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Victor Hovland]

The intel plant there is a little bit of a situation right now, but they have Andrew.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Victor Hovland]

Quite a few data centers. I guess there's like, it's specifically because there's like no seismic activity. There's like no fracking. No other things going around.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Victor Hovland]

It's obviously important, but interesting. There's also other stuff in that neighborhood.

[Jesse]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like what?

[Victor Hovland]

I mean, it's not a giant state.

[Jesse]

So Jamie's from Ohio. Columbus, Ohio. And Battelle Memorial Institute's there. And Patel manages all the nuclear sites.

[Victor Hovland]

Across the US it's also very close to Wright Patterson.

[Jamie]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

Very close.

[Victor Hovland]

A lot of stuff has happened there, supposedly at least.

[Jesse]

So he has some conspiracy theories.

[Jamie]

Okay.

[Victor Hovland]

I don't even know if they're conspiracies.

[Jamie]

Just truth.

[Victor Hovland]

Kick up there.

[Jamie]

Go.

[Jesse]

Wow.

[Victor Hovland]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

Nice shot, Jamie.

[Victor Hovland]

No, it's all right.

[Jesse]

Yeah. Whack an old lady.

[Jamie]

So.

[Victor Hovland]

No, they're just there.

[Jamie]

Unfortunately. What's coming up now for. For you? What do you got planned?

[Jesse]

So going to Mexico, Peru.

[Jamie]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

And then doing this. I, I interviewed these sky watcher guys. I was just talking to Jamie about it. Have you seen these guys? They, like sky watchers?

[Jamie]

No.

[Jesse]

They, like, claim to have this thing called the dog whistle, which is this frequency and that attracts UFOs like 100% of the time. And they have sensors and they, like, pick up a lot of weird stuff. Okay, so I want to see what's up.

[Jamie]

Wow.

[Jesse]

Okay. Yeah.

[Jamie]

Even more effective than the CE5.

[Jesse]

Yeah, well, they also have that. They also have, like, psychic, like, they call them neuro meditators or whatever, and they, like, try to summon uap. And Jake, he. It was this guy, he had a start for four years, and then Jake Barber, when he came out, joined him, and they had like, eight classes of uap. And then he. He joined and they're adding the egg is the ninth. And they're trying to get the egg, which Jake retrieved or whatever in the mid-2000s to, like, come down and like.

[Jamie]

Just summon the egg.

[Jesse]

Summon the egg.

[Jamie]

Okay.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

Wow.

[Jesse]

And, like, do it in front of everybody, which obviously, if they do that.

[Thomas]

The PC gave us computing power at home, the Internet connected us, and mobile let us do it pretty much anywhere. Now generative AI lets us communicate with technology in our own language, using our own senses. But figuring it all out when you're living through it is a totally different story. Welcome to Leading the Shift, a new podcast for Microsoft Azure. I'm your host, Susan Ettlinger. In each episode, leaders will share what they're learning to help you navigate all this change with confidence. Please join us, listen, and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jesse]

That's.

[Victor Hovland]

Yeah, that's gotta be some of the. That should be next step, if everybody can do that. Yeah, on tape, please.

[Jesse]

Yeah, yeah, on tape.

[Victor Hovland]

All right, that's.

[Jamie]

That's cool.

[Victor Hovland]

Where.

[Jamie]

Where are they at?

[Jesse]

It's a bold. It's a mobile, like, sensor unit, so they can set up anywhere, but they did operations in Palmdale and then the Finley Mountain Range in East Texas or West Texas, actually, which is a critique of theirs, is people are like, oh, it's next to, like, sensitive sites. So it could be like, you know that it's not their Northrop or. No, it could be, like, stuff like spoofing them or could be done in conjunction with. Yeah, okay. No, that's cool. That's worthy of some follow up. Yeah, for sure.

[Victor Hovland]

Go in.

[Jamie]

Oh, I'm gonna give myself.

[Victor Hovland]

We'll give it to him.

[Jesse]

Yeah, you do. Exactly. Not bad.

[Victor Hovland]

No, put on the hill.

[Jesse]

All right. No, it's just pathetic.

[Jamie]

There we go.

[Victor Hovland]

You have to name any names, but you Talk about this stuff on tour at all with anybody.

[Jamie]

People look at me pretty crazy.

[Victor Hovland]

Oh, yeah. That came out like, what?

[Jesse]

Victor, thank you.

[Victor Hovland]

Are you okay?

[Jamie]

Pretty much. Pretty much.

[Jesse]

I feel like you're good at spinning the questions that you get back to golf. You're like, yeah, it's like you can't be dogmatic with your golf swing either.

[Jamie]

But it's so true, though. It's like in everything in life, obviously I was trying to connected together, but it's like you. You have to question everything and. And in doing so, you find that either you get rid of the beliefs that you have or you believe in the things you believe in even more deeply. So it's like, I think it's good to just be open minded and ask a bunch of questions, especially to that topic that you're involved in. It's like you spend more time researching it. You just get more questions and it's. It's so interesting. And the implications of all of it is. I mean, if just objectively speaking, if that's not interesting, then what else is? What else is interesting and nothing else is.

[Jesse]

Wow.

[Victor Hovland]

That's it.

[Jesse]

Oh, it's great.

[Jamie]

That could be pretty good, actually.

[Victor Hovland]

Yeah, pretty good.

[Jamie]

This is a hard hole just over that.

[Victor Hovland]

Jesse, did you see what he did do that? Just copy them. Nope.

[Jesse]

That's not bad.

[Jamie]

Get up.

[Jesse]

What was I doing wrong before? Like, I'd hit it.

[Jamie]

Yeah, it's. Where do we start?

[Victor Hovland]

All right.

[Jamie]

Yeah, that's better. Me.

[Jesse]

There you go.

[Victor Hovland]

Partner golf.

[Jamie]

Most improves.

[Jesse]

The most improved. It's a low bar. Do you feel like you get to. When you travel, you can, like, see the places you go, or are you, like, so focused?

[Jamie]

Generally, when I feel like I'm playing pretty well and I'm trying more to conserve my energy. Yeah, I like to just find a. A cool spot in the town that I'm in or. Yeah, like a couple years ago I was in London and Stonehenge wasn't too far away, so. All right, let's drive an hour and a half and check out Stonehenge or sick, like in Ohio or Columbus for that tournament. I drove to Serpent Mound.

[Jesse]

Oh, nice.

[Victor Hovland]

There's a few things in. I mean, you'll be there like a month if you're going, right?

[Jamie]

Yeah, there's a.

[Victor Hovland]

There's a couple things around town.

[Jamie]

Yeah, there's some cool things there. And it's like, it's just nice to mix it up and get away from the golf course a little bit.

[Jesse]

You're really into the, like, ancient civilization.

[Jamie]

Dude, it's cool.

[Jesse]

Yeah, it's awesome, man.

[Jamie]

So I liked your Graham Hancock interview. That was.

[Victor Hovland]

That's cool.

[Jesse]

I love Graham. You see a debate on Rogan with Flint Dibble?

[Jamie]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

What a name that is. Yeah, that was. That was interesting. But, like, in the moment, I'm like, man, Flint Dibble is like. He's obviously really smart. Felt like it kind of didn't get anywhere, if that makes sense.

[Victor Hovland]

I mean. Yeah, I just. Those debates aren't, like, usually the best debates even, because they're really kind of coming in. Not really. I don't think most people are willing to, like, budge. They're coming in to, like, say what they had to say.

[Jamie]

Yeah, exactly.

[Victor Hovland]

Kind of get those clips recorded and.

[Jesse]

Yeah, it's like.

[Jamie]

It's not a conversation of trying to figure out what's going on. It's like, my side is gonna win or. Yeah, it's.

[Victor Hovland]

Can they just hear me say it again? Yeah, now they'll believe me.

[Jamie]

Yeah, exactly.

[Jesse]

And it's just two different, like, data sets. Like. Like, Graham has his stuff and Flint hasn't even, like, looked at it.

[Jamie]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

And then he has some slide with team shipwrecks that, like, you know, didn't even have.

[Victor Hovland]

He's got a good point. Like, you haven't looked everywhere. It's like, we haven't looked everywhere. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, we know.

[Thomas]

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[Jamie]

What's the deal about the, the pyramids? What they're discovered underneath the pyramid? Is that just like a weird gadget that they're reading that stuff or is there actual physical structures underneath the pyramid? I guess that's what they're maybe debating.

[Jesse]

I'm a little skeptical like this.

[Victor Hovland]

The answer is yes.

[Jesse]

Yes, yes what? All the above. What's your take? Have you looked into.

[Victor Hovland]

There's definitely stuff under the pyramid. That's how much and how deep it goes is kind of the question.

[Jesse]

I've heard that too. But why do you think, why are you high conviction that there's stu to the pyramid?

[Victor Hovland]

Well, I mean, just that people have like gone under it and shown it on video, I think. Yeah, like there's like at least a chamber.

[Jesse]

But this new thing is like synthetic aperture radar, which doesn't penetrate below the ground enough to be able to get like these generators at that level of granularity, be able to draw them up. So I'm skeptical of this latest, like Italian.

[Victor Hovland]

They seem very, you know, like, I don't know if excited or but like very like adamant about their point. Like, no, we did. This is it. Yeah, we did find this. But I don't think anyone's gonna let him go dig to check either though.

[Thomas]

Right.

[Jamie]

But can you not figure out a way maybe like from you, you dig a hole from, I don't know, half a mile away and try to get close to it?

[Victor Hovland]

I think they've, people have been asking to go underneath the Sphinx for a long time and they're not letting them do that.

[Jesse]

They think there's stuff under the Sphinx. Well, the, the minister of culture in Egypt, Zahi Hawazi is like, as a gatekeeper, clamp down on that entire area. He said in the 90s, he said there's stuff under the Sphinx. And then I think they dug some really superficial thing and they're like, nothing to see here. And then didn't, didn't like, pursue it further. So I. There's probably some like, you know, like, planned obsolescence like with like Apple products or something where it's like, it's. I think they. I think they like to like, dribble out like the reveals for like tourism and they don't like things that go against the Egyptian national pride. Like if something predates Egypt, that's not.

[Jamie]

They can't claim it.

[Jesse]

They can't claim it. So I think it's like too much all at once is kind of a threat to them.

[Jamie]

Do you think there's. Do you think they know kind of the, the bigger history of the pyramids but they're not deciding to release it? Or is it like.

[Jesse]

I don't. They. I don't think they fully know, like, but I don't know. I believe the, like, Graham Hancock and Robert Shock, John Anthony west theories that like limestone damage on the Sphinx shows that it predates, you know, whatever it was, the Old Kingdom or, you know, 5,000 years ago or whatever.

[Victor Hovland]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

And, you know, maybe there's a tropical climate at that time and then maybe the pharaonic headdress was like retrofitted onto this like, older structure. But beyond that, I think there's decent evidence actually that the pyramids themselves were built during the ancient Egypt. So I don't know. What do you think?

[Victor Hovland]

Without going, yeah, somewhere like that. I don't know. I was just trying to think in my head. Could be a silly question. I'm like, nowhere in the Bible do they talk about the pyramids. Do they? But I don't. I don't know. That's kind of. I should probably have Google in front of me to have that kind of.

[Jesse]

I don't think so. No.

[Victor Hovland]

So it has to be 2 to 3,000. But that's what. Why wouldn't they. Or did they just not. They could have easily just taken those passages out if they didn't want it in there. I don't know. That's just a thought. I just had.

[Jesse]

Literally the Jews. But then. Yeah. Were they. Are there.

[Victor Hovland]

Because they don't talk about building them either. Like we're being used to build this giant structure.

[Jesse]

Right.

[Victor Hovland]

And we're tired of it.

[Jamie]

Maybe they didn't know what was going on in Egypt because they were obviously in the Middle east. So it's like, it's pretty far away. Yeah, you would think they were that word.

[Victor Hovland]

I don't know though. There's that.

[Jesse]

But it was in Egypt. Like, the Exodus was. They say it's. This is speculation. Under Ramses II in Egypt. And so. But then I. Yeah, I don't know if they talk about pyramids.

[Victor Hovland]

I just never. Never thought about it until right now. I might want to pull up my phone and pull it up.

[Jesse]

Chat gbt. Pull it up.

[Jamie]

Jamie.

[Jesse]

He'S like, you.

[Victor Hovland]

Oh, yeah.

[Jamie]

Okay.

[Victor Hovland]

Go, go, go, go. Yeah.

[Jamie]

Was that Harold Maldgren video that you did, was that maybe the craziest one that you've done or.

[Jesse]

I think so. I kind of think so. Because it's, like, hard to argue with his credentials.

[Jamie]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

Like, they're kind of unimpeachable, you know? Like, I mean, now as they change the Wikipedia, dude, it's so crazy. That's why it's insane. They literally change. Did you see this, Jamie?

[Victor Hovland]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jesse]

They. They literally changed him from, like, top presidential aide, you know, jfk, lbj, Nixon, Ford, to, like, American writer and lobbyist and said he was, like, part of the Japanese whaling lobby and, like. And then involved, you know, involved in some other scandal or whatever. It's insane. And if you hear him speak, like, to any discerning person, you're like, he was an extremely, like, elite player in politics.

[Jamie]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

Like, you just know. You hear how sophisticated he is. It's just insane. But so. Yeah, I think. I think so. Like, I. I thought about it after that, and I'm like, how much deeper can you get without, like, unveiling a saucer and a hanger, you know?

[Jamie]

Yeah. And I could. I don't have the knowledge that you do, but I could see that in that interview, as he's talking, you're just, like, making all these connections, like, with certain things that he's saying and the people that he's been around. It was, like. It was just pretty cool to watch from, like, an outsider's perspective.

[Jesse]

Well, I was like, what the fuck? Like, he. The magenta thing. Yeah.

[Thomas]

What else did Richard Bissell tell you?

[Jesse]

He said this didn't start last week.

[Victor Hovland]

This has been going on. He mentioned 1933 Magenta.

[Jesse]

He did, yes.

[Thomas]

Richard Bissell mentioned the 1933 Magenta Crash.

[Jesse]

Yes.

[Thomas]

That's amazing.

[Jesse]

Exactly. That is such corroboration, because that is a highly conflicted account.

[Jamie]

1933 was the first recovery in Europe in Magenta Italy.

[Jesse]

I fully trust David Grush, but that's amazing that there's some corroboration from back then. He mentioned it. Wow. It's pretty crazy. The. The Bluegill triple prime test. Like, there's so much data around that, probably involving some sort of anomalous object this guy Jeffrey Cruikshank went really deep into. But then it's also tough. It's like he said. Like, he said majestic. That word. Like, from the Majestic 12.

[Jamie]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

And then I didn't even. Nick was actually filming it, and, like, I didn't even hear that. We had to transcribe it later because his voice, he. He survived throat cancer 12 years ago.

[Jamie]

Oh, wow.

[Jesse]

And his voice is not good. And so he said that on the phone to me. And if I had more time with him, I would have asked him a hundred questions about that. So he could have been using that in its counterintel context, like, just referring to some group, but, like, he didn't want to say the name of the group or whatever.

[Jamie]

Hmm.

[Jesse]

So it's just. It's hard to say on some of this stuff. Like, I wish I had more. More time with him, but. Yeah, but still, like, and the fact.

[Jamie]

That they changed his Wikipedia right after, like, that makes you pretty conspiratorial when you see something like that. I mean, like, why would you do that?

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

For no other reason than to discredit what the man said.

[Jesse]

Totally. You can come up with these, like, meta games that they could be playing where it's like, they want to show he's credible by. By, like, faking some detraction on it. But it's. It's crazy. At a certain point, you're like, I think they got you just take it at face value or whatever. And then there are other things. Like, he's at the end of his life, and, like, you don't always remember everything perfectly correctly, but, like, I don't know if you add up the fact that Richard Bissell, who, like, literally, like, was the designer of Area 51, like, was briefing him on other world technologies, and then, you know, he's holding the thing. Lawrence. I mean, we should ask Jeff Bezos, like, because that's his grandfather that gave him the. The UAP material or whatever.

[Victor Hovland]

So. What a crazy connection.

[Jesse]

How crazy is that?

[Jamie]

So this is kind of a weird question, but, yeah, if Jeff. Jeff Bezos has connection to the intelligence community, and, like, maybe they know something that most people don't.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

Like, why are you, him, and like, Elon out there shooting chemical rockets into space? Like, if they have more advanced technology or crafts, like, why are they pushing it in that direction?

[Jesse]

Yeah, I think about this a lot. And, like, I think if they do have stuff, which I do think they have stuff, I don't think they know how to use it. And I think if there are psyops, it's like convincing people they do or something. It's like softening the enemy or something.

[Victor Hovland]

I wouldn't imagine they test that, like, every week or every night. Then I'd be like, every six months, like, all right, we're out of test. Everybody's in place. We're going to do it at like, 3:00am to 5:30am yeah. And we'll get back next week and we'll see. Oh, shit. They saw it was supposed to happen. How'd they see it? Who saw it?

[Jamie]

Now let's pivot in this direction.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Victor Hovland]

All right, stop. We have three months later, after Take a break. That's also a little bit too extreme, too. Like, it can't just be that either.

[Jesse]

Yeah, but, like, the. Only you don't have a ton of evidence that they know how to use this stuff, that it's like, Bob Lazar, Dan Barish. You have, like, a few possible data points, and then otherwise there's like. I think a lot of evidence there crashes and that they have anomalous stuff. And then it could be like a USB drive for, like, a caveman, where.

[Victor Hovland]

It'S like, even if they know how.

[Jesse]

To use it, no idea.

[Victor Hovland]

Even if you know how to use it, doesn't mean you know how to make it or deconstruct it or recharge it.

[Jesse]

Right.

[Victor Hovland]

Refuel it. You know, who knows? Like.

[Jesse]

Right.

[Victor Hovland]

I don't know who knows, really. I guess. What.

[Jamie]

What on the physics sides do you find the most convincing? Because it seems like there's potentially a lot of different ways to get to kind of the same outcome of technology.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

But a lot of. At least the physicists that I'd like to listen to or have thoughts of, they. They come at it from many different angles, and it's like, which one's correct? And, like, can you test it? Can you try it?

[Jesse]

I think it's hard to say. Like, you have all these, like, EM drive and, like, Al Qbiori warp drive, and you have, like, how put offs, like, electrically polarized vacuum. You have, like, a million different frameworks. But I like to start because I'm dumb on the physics level. Like, with the.

[Jamie]

Doesn't seem like it, but not really.

[Jesse]

Like, you know, I could, like, barely keep up. But, like, I think finding, like, the. The, like, initial effect, that was like an anomaly that got classified is, like, probably the best starting point. And I think this guy, Townsend Brown, figured out basically a way to manipulate gravity. With electromagnetism. And then a lot stems from that. That's, like, more sophisticated. So I like to, like, start there.

[Jamie]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

But I don't know. I'm sure they're, like, way more advanced at this point.

[Jamie]

Yeah, you would think so. Or you would hope so.

[Jesse]

I think so.

[Jamie]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

And there's like, I don't know, like, aerospace graybeards that I speak to when I bring up Brown and that sort of thing. They're like, you know, we can't say, but, like, wink, wink, nudge, nudge, like. Or it's the opposite, where they're like, bizarrely, like, aggressively, like. There's definitely nothing there. I saw your video, but there's nothing there. And it's like, why are you watching my video? Yeah. Like, you're like. You're like some, like, Lockheed, like, exec or something.

[Jamie]

There's so many physicists that are talking about, like, okay, advanced, whatever, technology. And you can use a quantum vacuum or whatever the word they're trying to say. And then you have so many other scientists, whatever, the establishment, that are just fully materialistic, and any anomaly that we see is just prosaic or conventional. And it's like, why do you have such. There's such a big divide.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

And it's like, it's. I even listened to Avi Loeb on.

[Jesse]

Your buddy Chris Ramsey. He did a great job.

[Jamie]

Yeah. And, like, I love listening to Avi, but even he is like, he's trying to find aliens.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

And he's like, I haven't seen anything. I don't believe in anything else outside of that. So it's just interesting how you can have one faction of people, particularly the people working for government.

[Jesse]

But Abby also comes from, like, an intelligence background. He worked on the. Worked on Star Wars. Yeah. Like, I thought he said that.

[Jamie]

He didn't in that podcast, but I might have listened wrong.

[Jesse]

No, I'm pretty sure it's like, Star Wars.

[Jamie]

Yeah, maybe.

[Jesse]

I think so. Maybe I'm wrong. But I wonder if he knows a little more than he likes or. He said the high mesh. Like, did you hear that? High mesh?

[Jamie]

No, I did not.

[Jesse]

So this guy, like, ran the Israeli space force, and he's like, there's a galactic federation and we're working with, like, aliens on Mars. Like, crazy shit. And he's like, I think he knows that from his intelligence background. I'm like, how would you know that? This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. If you are going through something, anything, I always think talking about it helps. I've Also always believed that taking care of your mental well being is as essential as staying physically fit, especially when life keeps you on the go.

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[Victor Hovland]

McGonagall.

[Jesse]

McMonagle.

[Victor Hovland]

McMonagle, yeah. The CIA remote viewer.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

That was, that was a while.

[Victor Hovland]

Because he pulled out on your.

[Jesse]

Here we go.

[Victor Hovland]

All right.

[Jamie]

Aliens are coming.

[Victor Hovland]

They got us train. But. But yeah, remote viewing millions of years ago.

[Jamie]

Mars.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Victor Hovland]

But then also they say that like only 30% of what they were seeing was accurate.

[Jesse]

Yeah, for sure. And some of the images he showed me, I like debunked. Like some of them are not legit. So who's to say? I don't know. But the mar. The Mars thing, I think it's actually dogmatic and crazy to say 0% chance that there was life on Mars. You have the water caverns, you have the, like, the excess of like Argon.

[Victor Hovland]

The only thing I have, I've read and I don't believe it's true is that the, the current rover up there wasn't equipped with anything to actually look for signs of life. It's just got like cameras and it's Looking for other stuff. Like, the goal wasn't to look for life.

[Jesse]

Interesting.

[Victor Hovland]

For the same reason I heard someone talking about the moon landing stuff again recently. I'm like, you go into this whole process and you have to also film it because no one believes you.

[Jesse]

Exactly.

[Victor Hovland]

It's kind of a tough process and thought process to get through because, like, you're doing all the. Have to go. Don't care. Film it. That's not my. I'm here to, like, make sure the rocket goes and doesn't explode and we get there and we get back and these other guys, like, you got to film it. No one's going to believe you.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Victor Hovland]

It's like I'm starting to be like, it's a tough. I still believe in the moon landing and all that, but, like, it's still a weird thing.

[Jesse]

Like, you don't believe Bart Cyberlar.

[Victor Hovland]

I don't even know if he does. It's just a fun conversation to have.

[Jamie]

It is a fun conversation.

[Victor Hovland]

That's really a lot of. It's just.

[Jesse]

Yeah, but Joe was arguing with who? Was it Dave Smith or.

[Victor Hovland]

Well, he. Joe was really into it at one point.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Victor Hovland]

And he's just back and forth. I think we've talked about. Just depends on the day you wake up. You're like, where am I at today? Like, I'm a little more this way today.

[Jesse]

Yeah. It's so funny. Love it.

[Jamie]

Keeps it interesting.

[Jesse]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, Jesus.

[Victor Hovland]

Come back. Right.

[Jesse]

I got on one green. Sorry.

[Victor Hovland]

When's your next tournament? Next week. Oh, is it? Okay, so you have the week off and then.

[Jamie]

Yep. Go to Philadelphia and then it's Charlotte and then to Memorial. Nice.

[Victor Hovland]

If you want to get good at golf.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Victor Hovland]

Stay friends with him. Keep hitting tips.

[Jesse]

I like that. Just act like it doesn't exist.

[Victor Hovland]

Oh, it's really good.

[Jesse]

Look at that, dude. Crazy. That was insane.

[Victor Hovland]

So it's a hundred. You have a perfect 100 shot then. Yeah. It's right in your head.

[Jamie]

Yeah, it was. I had to club up for that one.

[Jesse]

Oh, yeah.

[Jamie]

That needs to sit, though.

[Victor Hovland]

Bounce, right?

[Jamie]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

Dude.

[Jamie]

Come on.

[Victor Hovland]

Come on down.

[Jesse]

Let's go.

[Victor Hovland]

Come on down. Uh. Oh. Get through.

[Jesse]

Where'd it go? I don't even see.

[Victor Hovland]

It just dropped down. Right down the bottom of the tree.

[Jamie]

Oh, it didn't get through.

[Victor Hovland]

It's fun day.

[Jamie]

You can have. Yeah, the vibe is sweet. Nice. Good shot. How did you two get linked up?

[Victor Hovland]

I mean, just through. It was osmosis. Yeah. It would have happened eventually.

[Jamie]

Yeah.

[Victor Hovland]

I think one of his videos I found. I just found his videos, and I DM'd him after one of them. Yeah, and then the link, the real link was after Townsend Brown video. I don't know if you watched that one. Yeah, we were already talking, and I texted him. I was like, are you telling me that Doc Brown had a moment of, like, lightning and drove back to his lab in Pasadena and created time travel? Sounds like Back to the Future, dude. And he was like, holy shit, you're right. And he Googled some stuff. And he got back to me. He was like, and there's even more that you don't know. And I was like, okay. Oh, wow. That's weird. That's weird.

[Jamie]

Nice, Jesse.

[Jesse]

Let's go. I think Back to the Future definitely touches on some real stuff because when the. When the DeLorean comes back, it crashes. And the guy has, like, a little com. The kid has a comic book with, like, alien UFOs. And he's like, it has no seams, no rivets. Like, it must be an alien UFO or whatever. And it's actually a time travel machine. So he's, like, mistaking it in real time or whatever. Oh, damn.

[Victor Hovland]

So cool.

[Jesse]

And then. And then the guy, Townsend Brown, like, Doc Brown is Emmett Townsend. Emmett?

[Victor Hovland]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

You pull up the tv.

[Jesse]

Townsend Brown.

[Victor Hovland]

I was just with Doc Brown. I was like, that was close enough because driving to Pasadena, which is where it took place, and all that stuff.

[Jesse]

Which is where Townsend Brown did his experiments. And it's called the flux capacitor, which is Townsend Brown's experiment as a capacitor.

[Victor Hovland]

Like, what.

[Jamie]

What do you make of that? Are they, like. Are there, like, Hollywood movies? Is that scripted in a sort of.

[Victor Hovland]

Way, according to Time delong? It's all on purpose, I think.

[Jesse]

I think.

[Jamie]

Or. Or is it just like the wild synchronicities of. Of life that, like, simulation.

[Victor Hovland]

Yeah, I. I lean more towards that because there's so many weird ones that pop up.

[Jesse]

I don't want it. Steven. Steven Spielberg executive produced it.

[Jamie]

And he.

[Jesse]

That guy knows some shit. Even if you look at Close Encounters of the Third Kind, there are two crates. Those are, like, the most advanced R and D programs at Lockheed and Northrop, respectively. That would have to do with this topic. Like, how would he know about that in, like, the late 80s, like. Yeah, I don't know. Said some stuff. Yeah.

[Victor Hovland]

I don't know who made one of my favorite ones. Fly to the Navigator, I've told you about.

[Jesse]

That's a Disney.

[Victor Hovland]

Yeah, I know that. But director Randall Kleisser never Heard of that name.

[Jesse]

I first met Jake Barber at Disneyland. Really? Yeah. He was there with his family. Okay. And I drove down from la.

[Jamie]

That was also pretty crazy interview, I thought, with Jake.

[Jesse]

I thought so, too. Like, I think it was too much for people to stomach. Like the psychic stuff and the UFO retrieval stuff all at once.

[Jamie]

Yeah. And the fact that he says he's handled these crafts himself. Like, you don't hear that stuff very often.

[Jesse]

No, he definitely. No. I mean, it's like, if that's. I don't know, you know, where to shake out there. Like, I think if he's incredibly sophisticated and like, so everything checks on the surface. Like, it's almost like we'll never know. He's so. He's so sophisticated. And if it is true, it's the tip of the spear. It's like that and Lazar. And like, what. What's farther than that?

[Victor Hovland]

There's an assumption that the United States government is this whole encompassing thing and they all work together and they all know everything and they got computers and they all talk on chats and emails and everybody's friends that can't. It's like that now. That's nowhere. It's probably the farthest from the truth.

[Jesse]

It would have leaked.

[Victor Hovland]

And there's multiple different factions even within factions and factions within factions. And yeah, maybe there's a small group of three guys that found something and stored it in a locker somewhere. And like, they're afraid to say what they got because they don't even know. And it turns out it just has more. This group has 50 of them. That's what Barbara was saying with the egg. Like, they might not care about the egg because they have too many. It's like, what a crazy thing to say.

[Jesse]

I know. And that's what he said.

[Victor Hovland]

What'd you do with it then? You just threw it back, like, dropped it off in the ocean. Like, where did it go?

[Jesse]

Just like we're like, how many do we have? And he's like, who is us? He's like, sure. It's like all these, like, factions fighting against each other.

[Victor Hovland]

I imagine if you told some, there's got to be a black market on. On the darknet for ufo. What's in that box? Buy it and find out.

[Jamie]

But then how is more ubiquitous than.

[Jesse]

How is it not more leaked and more. Yeah, if it's that many.

[Victor Hovland]

No one just. Back to the. Like, it's. No one knows. They don't. It's hard to figure it out. You can see something and not know if you don't have the right tool to get in there.

[Jesse]

Right. Just an egg shape.

[Victor Hovland]

Yeah. If you find an iPhone in 100 years.

[Jesse]

But it can't be.

[Jamie]

But there should be more concrete, like evidence.

[Victor Hovland]

I agree.

[Jamie]

I feel like everything is so much more into the. Almost the theoretical. Like you listen to certain people and they've got this whole framework kind of figured out, but nothing to kind of show for it.

[Jesse]

Yes. Unless. Unless you have a thousand. If you have over a thousand of the eggs or whatever, then one of them's gonna leak it just. Well in the modern day, you know, so it has to be like less than that. And yeah. There is this whole like theoretical ontology around it thing that we don't even know.

[Jamie]

We don't even know. Yeah, it's just like crazy. But I want to speculate and like, I think a lot of the ontology kind of makes sense.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

When you kind of, when you listen to people explain it like that. But again, you gotta have something concrete.

[Jesse]

To show for it for sure. It also could like be a bunch of different things, like the things you're summoning or the things that show up around nukes that like look like blobby like lights or whatever. Aren't the saucers in, you know, Lockheed hangers or whatever. Like those could be two fundamentally different things.

[Jamie]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

So it's just hard to say. Like it could be like a zoo of like, there's just like this spooky science world. The DOE has like a lock on like a lot of it or whatever because that's where you have like the most secretive atomic stuff. And then that's where you would put the most secret science. It's where we do like the most, you know, like intense high energy physics.

[Jamie]

Okay.

[Jesse]

Stuff.

[Jamie]

So not darpa, but like a different arm.

[Jesse]

DARPA is a part of the doe. Yeah.

[Jamie]

So, so they, you, you think they have just a lot of different departments, kind of each specialized to particle physics, to whatever the cloning DNA.

[Jesse]

Well, they, the DOE also paid for the human genome experiment. So like they like have like a lot of genomic data that, you know, other departments don't. They have the, the tightest security, like since Los Alamos. And if you even look at like the special definition of nuclear material like in the Atomic energy Act of 1954, it's like anything emitting alpha beta gamma radiation is like born secret. It's like restricted data upon finding it. So you could just contract out a Lockheed or a Northrop or whatever. And if they like stumble onto a thing it's like. It's like, immediately secret. And then you have these. I don't know, like, the largest particle accelerator in the US Is, like, at Brookhaven National Labs called Cosmotron. And so a lot of the secret science stuff is going on at these DOE sites. And that mountain said that, too.

[Jamie]

Yeah. Do you think that's just from what I've heard, like, you know, the technology in the iPhone, the screen, whatever, wireless, WI fi, all that stuff is, like, kind of leaked from darpa. I've just heard that. Do you know, have you corroborated? Corroborated that at all?

[Jesse]

To some extent. That's 100% true and not conspiratorial. Like, there's a search engine called Menx, which was pre Google that DARPA had been experimenting with, you know, well, before Google, ARPA E created the Internet. Like, Jacques Vallee, who's actually a UFO pioneer, was, like, working with Doug Engelbart on, like, the earliest part of the Internet in, like, the 70s. Wow.

[Jamie]

Okay. Any people from, like, Lockheed or Northrop or any of those companies that you have a chance to maybe interview and, like, see from that angle? Because most of it, I feel like you're coming.

[Jesse]

Or there's a guy I met from Skunk Works who's, like, really smart, doesn't believe in you. He thinks, like, the UFO stuff is kind of. He believes in UFOs, like, in the ephemeral. Like, you see them outside or you see them, you know, like, you know, around, like, nuclear sites or whatever.

[Jamie]

Okay.

[Jesse]

But I don't think he thinks that's the same thing as, like. He thinks it's just human tech, like, at Lockheed and other places. And so.

[Jamie]

But he works for Skunk Works.

[Jesse]

He used to. Used to, yeah, for, like, but, like, for, like, 30 years.

[Victor Hovland]

Okay.

[Jesse]

And he. But he's. He's kind of trippy, and he believes in a lot of, like, I think he thinks that we've made a lot of progress on a lot of, like, secret tech that after he left Lockheed or No, like, since even while he was there. But, like, he kind of hints at stuff like, he can't always, like, you know, what's up, guys? I want to tell you about my new favorite boots. These things are epic.

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[Jesse]

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[Thomas]

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[Jesse]

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[Thomas]

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[Jamie]

Well, fellas, enjoyed it.

[Jesse]

Great plan, man. It was an honor. It was an honor. Thank you for bringing yourself down to our level. Means a lot.

[Jamie]

We meet each other halfway. I go down on the golf thing and you go down with the UFO stuff. So we meet each other halfway.

[Jesse]

No, I mean, I might not know. Know more than you.

[Jamie]

You know, it's fascinating to talk about, so.

[Jesse]

It definitely is. And I think, I think there's going to be a lot of momentum in this world for like the next. I just, I feel like it's in the zeitgeist. Like, there's so much. Even if it's like a vague sense that there's just, I don't know, like, you asked me this. You were like, what if the UFOs just like, don't go anywhere? And I'm like, I just don't think that's going to be the case. And that was like six months ago.

[Victor Hovland]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jesse]

I would, I would believe that it's going to, like, keep, keep growing.

[Jamie]

Take off.

[Jesse]

Yeah, yeah. Get your.

[Victor Hovland]

You want to fake walk off or just take off? You see me drive away? It.